Episode 133 Discussion!!!

[Nachtvogel]

All animes with some kind of super power or techniques or how ever it is called create their own kind of 'realism', they use throughout the show. The problem here is, that the fight is not convincing concerning the shows own 'realsim'. And of course it is not Naruto, but Sasuke leading to this impression. Sasuke just took too much hits and used too damn much chakra ( 2 chidoris and a whole bunch of fire ninjutsus) for his normal self without even using the seal and showed no signs of damage or just fatigue

[pauLisme]

Originally posted by: Bakko
The people arguing about Naruto 'realism' sound like a bunch of Star Wars nerds fighting over how the force works.

ANIME IS NOT REAL

seriously. ANIME IS JUST ANIME

[GhostKaGe]

loved the episode good fight scenes and the music (the tune when they where both balancing on the logs in the water at about 4:27 - 7:08 ) was just quality

[KaneDragon]

I thought the episode was very very cool. I never noticed anything wrong with the art or whatever it is you keep whining about.

Heh. Sasuke's poses after he started to predict Naruto's movements were a little funny.

Hopefully Sasuke will look cooler once he starts moving around, but we already knew he was going to look strange from the hair puff he had when he got out of the barrel.

I hope Naruto becomes more fox-crazed and everyone's like, "Oh, no, Nine Tails gonna getcha!" Naruto ranting about wiping out humanity would not be amiss, either.

[Souda]

ohh I love this episode. It was great reading it from the manga, and I think the new crew did a good job with its representation. <3

i love sasuke and naruto. they're freakin awesome XD

[LobsterMagnet]

I can't believe all of the bitchin you people are doing about this episode. I just finished watching it and all I can say is that it surpassed my best expectiations. MUCH MUCH better then in the manga. There is a bit of loss of realism but so what? This fight kicks some major ass even if the art work leaves a bit to be desired the fluid animation more then makes up for it. Damn I love the giant kage bushin chain and the narutorpedos. This fight kicked ass period so please just shut up and enjoy it. I can only hope that next weeks episode has just as much kickass content not seen in the manga.

[Roko]

I still wish they had shown what Sasuke could see with the full sharingan...that would have been cool, seeing Naruto from his perspective.

[Psyke]

Originally posted by: Roko
I still wish they had shown what Sasuke could see with the full sharingan...that would have been cool, seeing Naruto from his perspective.

They did, with the manga. Sasuke did say that he could see Naruto's next movement in the anime, but everything was moving too fast so the viewers couldn't really tell the difference. In the manga you can tell that Sasuke clearly sees and anticipates Naruto's everymove. And when Naruto powers up in the manga you can also clearly see the charka moving by itself.

I liked both the anime and manga versions, the anime was cool with all the fast moves and good animation, but the manga was more dramatic especially with Sasuke putting on the forehead protector and saying he will break the bond with Naruto. Naruto thought that Sasuke has finally changed his mind, but in the anime this was not highlighted very much. Another thing is that in the manga more focus was put onto what Sasuke could see using the sharingan.

[Crows_Kill]

Great comparison Psyke. The manga, as always explains more and in more detail, the anime jazzes it up and intensifies it, or at least tries to.

I think the whoel argument for realism in naruto, or anime in general, come down to one thing- does the story obey its own rules?
Look up "stupid movie physics" on google for a good comparison to entertainment ie: movie physics and the real thing, I Think the the site that does it the best was called the intuiter guide to stupid movie physics, or something like that. If you can find it, read their review of the amtrix films- it doesnt flame the matrix for getting the ohysics totaly wrong in the real world, which it does, btw, but for its total lacl of obeying the rules they define for their own reality IN the matrix. In othe words, the writers tell you up front that the world you see is based on rules, here they are, hear is what we can do to with them, and then proceed to ignore their own rules and guidlines. Thats whats upsets alot of anime fans.
The anime universe allows for tons of improbable or impossible things, like giant humanoid mecha moving faster than light, or human beings tossing around fire balls and teleporting across dimensions. But what most good series do is define what is possible and not possible, or to what extent the rules can be bent, or at least give you a quai realistic techno bable explanation (minofski particles anyone?). Whats anoying is when the writers break their own rules withou explanation or out right contradict themselves. Its not that we are truly appaled at the lack a realism, its the lack of writing.

look at dbz as a perfect example. right in the begining of the sayan saga, we are shown vegita causualy destroying an entire planet with minimal effort. We also see goku moving at basicly mach3 or faster, and other minor characters causualy destroying whole armies of regular guys and shrugging of nuclear blasts as if it was a light snowfall. Then we see them struggling to toss a freball to desroy a single cliff ro door, or actually gettign hurt by being hit with a rock that their infant son was teething on 2 episodes earlier. It didnt make sense for the characters to display such awesome power in one scene and then get whacked by a kidney punch from some elderly guy in a bad hawaiin shirt. And it just got worse from their, until the point where they littleraly could not make the characters any stronger and had to resort to totaly arbitrary plot devices like turning them in to kids or alternat time lines just to make them temporarily seemingly weeker, then just to have them rebound with just as little explanation or reason. It was frustrating and boring to watch after a while.

Naruto started off by clearly explaining the laws and reasoning behind ninjitsu and their universe, and also introduced a few deus ex machina right from the beging so they could break the rules as needed without totaly breaking character for the setting (ie: kyubi and the sharingan, then other blood-line limits). Whats tripping up some people is that it seems like the writer(s) are not reading their own material. Thet are breaking their own rules without explanation, like how sasuke, apparently not powered by a demon (pyscological ones dont count here) or using his seal or other allready introduced reasons, can withstand being hammered in to a cliff repetadly without sever damage, or how they can cause rubble to fall sideways while standing on a cliff, or use all their abilities without suffering the detrimentle effects there of that were very clearly explaned in earlier episodes.

I for one dont think that the manga violates the cannon very much, if at all, but hey really stretch it with the anime, purely for entertainment purposes as i said in my previous post, but I can see why that would upset other people who value continuity and substance over melodrama and creative exageration. Some people just want their chocolate to remain chocolate and kept as far away from their penut butter as possible. Others like to mix it up and enjoy the taste no matter how mixed up the ingredients.

I'm retiring from my soapbox for the night. ciao.

[Ioz]

Originally posted by: Crows_Kill


Some people just want their chocolate to remain chocolate and kept as far away from their penut butter as possible. Others like to mix it up and enjoy the taste no matter how mixed up the ingredients.

Strange that you posted this cuz I'm eating Reese's pieces right now. But that's not the point the episode rocked and I kinda liked the 'rough' animation. It was refreshing for them to change things up a bit.

[Assertn]

dude......we've established long ago that different studios work on the series......
isnt there somewhere in the credits that easily points out the ones that the korean studios work on?

[Werder]

I'd just like to applaud Crows_Kill for a spectacular post.
I love peanut and chocolate together.
But one guy I knew used to eat ham and banana sandwiches (with lettuce for extra crunch).
It seems for some people, this episode was more like ham and banana.
But for me, it was peanut and chocolate.

(please ask me if you don't get the point of this message)[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

[Eurasian]

Wah I finally got to watch it. I just have to say this episode is perfect imo. It hadn't been this good for a while so I'm really sad to see it end so soon.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

[XanBcoo]

Edort4, I think you completely missed the point. It's anime. Unrealistic/impossible stuff is ok to happen. That's what makes it cool and for a lot of people.
Imagine if this episode of Naruto was a stand alone. That episode 133 was the only episode of Naruto. I don't think anyone would be complaining as much because it'd just be aN anime movie about ninjas beating the shit out of eachother and doing impossible things. But it's because of the 132 episodes before this one that makes this not so. It's tearing apart the reality it has created for itself. However badass the episode is (which I quite agree), that fact is still true.
I think Crows_Kill put it very well. *applauds*

[KM]

Originally posted by: xanbcoo
Edort4, I think you completely missed the point. It's anime. Unrealistic/impossible stuff is ok to happen. That's what makes it cool and for a lot of people.
Imagine if this episode of Naruto was a stand alone. That episode 133 was the only episode of Naruto. I don't think anyone would be complaining as much because it'd just be aN anime movie about ninjas beating the shit out of eachother and doing impossible things. But it's because of the 132 episodes before this one that makes this not so. It's tearing apart the reality it has created for itself. However badass the episode is (which I quite agree), that fact is still true.
I think Crows_Kill put it very well. *applauds*

I disagree. This episode is really bad. If this is the only naruto episode I don't think I would like it at all. This episode is unrealistic even if you strip away the display of power and the style of animation. The acting itself (the reactions of the characters and their expressions) is crappy. Storytelling is also disappointing, as you already read about the explanation of Sharingan. The animation did not intensify the explanation of Sharingan [Crows_Kill]. It would have been a much stronger presentation to overlay and contrast the slowmotion seen by the 2nd level sharingan and the fast action in real time. This way, you can tell how fast sharingan is reading naruto's movement. And the contrast is going to add rhythm.

[eskimå]

HAHA, I liked when Naruto punched Sasuke, I mean when Naruto were NineTails. Sasuke had no chance. But, but, now when he is level two, it's a differense...
In another thread I said that Naruto should be able to use much cakara from the Demonfox, and I had right.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] It's maybe not so wierd to think of that.
Like who din't know that? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]

[Fuzzlepop]

I finally realized one of the things that has been bothering me about this episode. I don't know if maybe I missed something but it is bothering me that Sasuke is using his Sharingan more like Neji's Byakugan. I mean isn't the Sharingan supposed to be able to copy things as well? Kakashi only has one eye that has it but he apparently became famous as the copy ninja, yet Sasuke has two (both of which now have the third comma) and all he can do is *predict* things? That doesn't really make sense to me.

Perhaps they do a little more with that later on but for now it just kind of bugs that he might as well be as Hyuuga clan member instead of an Uchiha.

(this is my first post since I just started the series about a week ago and for this thread I thought I would contribute a new idea instead of bashing/defending the animation vs art idea)

EDIT: Yes I realize he used it to copy Lee's move earlier on but I am speaking more specifically about this episode

[kooshi]

I don't think Sasuke has much to copy. Besides, when you copy a jutsu, you also have to memorize the hand seals since you're just copying the hand movements. Sasuke probably doesn't have that potential, unlike Kakashi.

[Fuzzlepop]

Ya, I guess there really isn't a whole lot he could copy other than...random pissed off fighting style...I think I would just like it a little better if they had given it a difference other than just *knowing* it could copy things since right now (meaning in this fight) all it is is a crappy Byakugan that doesn't give the user near 360 degree vision.


For instance when Kakashi fights Zabuza he doesn't really memorize the seals Zabuza is doing, he just copies them (as well as the chanting if I remember right) as Zabuza is doing them.

I don't think he had his Sharingan activated when Naruto used them in this fight (they were active when Naruto did the Narutorpedo's but since he wasn't looking at Naruto when that happened it makes sense there), but Sasuke should probably be able to do both the Shadow Replication jutsu as well as Rasengan with as many times as both have been used in his presence.


Oh and on a side note after remembering the Narutorpedos...what was with Sasuke praying all of a sudden? That made very little sense as well.

Overall I thought the episode was good, just that analyzing the weird/bad parts of things is entertaining.

[DarthEnderX]

It's been stated that Sharingan only copies Taijitsu, and ninjitsus/genjitsu's that use hand seals. With the kyubi power, theres nothing to "copy" because with out the fox you simply can't do that. Even with the taijitsu that Naruto is using now, even if Sasuke knows HOW to do it, he's incabably because it requires the fox to fight like that. Same with the Rasengan, Jiraya says theres no seals to it, so you can't copy it, its just manipulating chakra with your will.

Even if Naruto were to summon a frog, Sasuke couldn't copy that because he hasn't signed the frog contract, or any other contract, so he can do the move, but nothing would show up.

In fact, pretty much the only move of naruto's that Sasuke hasn't copy, but could have is the Mass Kage Bunshin. And Sasuke probably thinks its not worth using on Naruto, since it never works when Naruto uses it lately.