Cagalli discussion (Spoiler alert for Gundam Seed)

[Terracosmo]

Well of course it was "a spectacular play on human emotions". But it has definately been done before. Don't get me wrong I love GS/D to death but it's in no way unique. You are very mistaken.

They didn't bring in Heine for the sake of bringing in characters, they brought him in because his death has caused impact on the entire Minerva crew. I also don't understand why you dislike "the chaos of ep 28". This "chaos" is not new to Destiny. I still do not understand what your issue is. Besides that, I believe Destiny is better than Seed if you think about the fact that half of Seed was spent establishing the universe and letting Kira face off against random opponents to get to know himself better (Seed probably has some anime record when it comes to amount of characters introduced in an episode only to get killed in the end of it or the next)...

And Destiny doesn't really have more fanservice than Seed. *cough* bouncing Murrue boobs in opening 3/4 of Seed *cough*
Also I dislike calling it fanservice. What's wrong with a bit of nudity? If a show is supposed to be a play on human emotions, arousing should be a part of it... teehee.

[Board of Command]

But there's a difference between relevant fanservice and unnecessary fanservice. Relevant as in Stellar stripping down in the cave, unnecessary as in showing Cagalli, a strong female character, in lingerie in the OP.

[Terracosmo]

Like you complain about seeing her in lingerie to begin with.
Maybe it's symbolism to show her naked feelings for Asuran who just walks away from her as he tries to find what he should do himself (far-fetched but wtf)

And she is not a strong female character anymore.

[Deblas]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Like you complain about seeing her in lingerie to begin with.
Maybe it's symbolism to show her naked feelings for Asuran who just walks away from her as he tries to find what he should do himself (far-fetched but wtf)

And she is not a strong female character anymore.

Symbolism? I think its just fanservice. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

[Terracosmo]

Whatever it is, it's sexy. Soooo...

[Mut]

Cagali is a bitch.

And she is dumb.

Weak too.

That's what the creator wanted to portray in the OP and he is gradually turning Cagali into just an even more useless female voice. I don't want to be sexist nor am I trying to be one, but Cagali is and was only introduced to fill the "main character's ho" role. She was never a strong female. She acts like it but she is actually so god damn emotionally weak underneath her tough-girl exterior. Even Lacus is a stronger female than her. She isn't as loud as Cagali is but she stands firm on her decisions and doesn't do the "HEY LISTEN TO ME, oh wait. Sorry..." bullshit Cagali always pulls.

But do I want to see Athrun have his way with her? Yes.

[LordGardenGnome]

Ummm yeah i kinda feel the same way with Cagalli. I'm sorry but i look at it as she's in a mobile suit, a nice one at that, and she doesn't fire a dang shot. She does a lot of speaches and look how well those did, someone just kill her. I'd be happy if she just didn't appear anymore. She's become annoying to me how she hangs out in the air in Strike Rouge and does a whole lot of Nothing!

sorry but it just bugs the crap out of me.

[naruto22]

Sadly, so do I. If only they made Cagalli more useful, like in GS. That is why this GSD is really starting to get at me with silly new characters who do nothing but either gawk at Asuran or hate Cagalli to the bone.

Shin Asuka is a brat who hasn't improved since day one. This is why, Coordinator or not, he is still a kid. Just like Asuran, Kira and the rest of the young Coordinators. They may have military training but they still have the same chronological mindset of a Natural Child of the same age. That's why they either become mentally unstable (Shin Asuka and Asuran come to mind, Kira for most of Gundam Seed), extremely angry and bloodlust (Yzak Joule), a joker (Deakka) or you mature beyond your years. (Kira Yamato and once I though Asuran belong to this category).

And Shin asuka just choose to be a psychotic soldier who only cares about fighting, regardless the enemy. As for his whole reason of ORB not protecting his family, what utter bull. If his family was on the Unius Seven which got nuked by the EAF, I bet he would probably blame Zaft for not protecting his family and join EAF. OK that's a bit to far off but the fact is that. like Asuran say, he cannot think beyond what his little mind chooses to accept. He think he is God, only he is right. In other words, he is a selfish kid whose only consideration beyond himself is possibly Stellar. I don't efven want to give him the doubt that he would die for the Minerava crew.

My humble opinion is that whenever he went SEED mode, it was to fulfil his bloodlust. Episode 28 battle shows this. He didn't go SEED to protect the Minerva. He went SEED so that he can slaughter anybody that fits into ORB's ideals, which includes Kira, Archangel, Cagalli.

Despite they are now both on my "to hate list" characters, I still choose Cagalli over Shinn. Her current whinny attitude aside, she at least, is not a murderer at heart. Shinn is and he doesn't care. If Cagalli is an example of a person who is easily influenced by her surroundings, Shinn is the other extreme, who is deaf to all other opinions but himself.

Sigh, at least that's his current situation. I do have a tiny bit of sympathy for the boy and I hope Stellar can melt his cold heart a bit. That's what she is there fore after all.

[Jurojin]

The thing about the fanaticism of destroying the Minerva is that Orb felt it needed to show that it was not just siding with the EAF to avoid being shot up. Again. Think of it like joining a gang, and you have to do something- to prove your loyalty. What Yuna et al feared was that if they looked like they were making a half-hearted attempt, the EAF would go On second thought, well just occupy you and take over your government.

Think about the words the admiral said before he shoved them off the bridge. He knew that sending the fleet at Minerva was suicide, but the way it was done made it look like that Orb was committed, even if they didnt destroy the Minerva, which save Orb a little bit of EAF scrutiny.

At least, that's just my analysis.

[naruto22]

Originally posted by: Jurojin
The thing about the fanaticism of destroying the Minerva is that Orb felt it needed to show that it was not just siding with the EAF to avoid being shot up. Again. Think of it like joining a gang, and you have to do something- to prove your loyalty. What Yuna et al feared was that if they looked like they were making a half-hearted attempt, the EAF would go On second thought, well just occupy you and take over your government.

Think about the words the admiral said before he shoved them off the bridge. He knew that sending the fleet at Minerva was suicide, but the way it was done made it look like that Orb was committed, even if they didnt destroy the Minerva, which save Orb a little bit of EAF scrutiny.

At least, that's just my analysis.

A good analysis but the thing is, I doubt every Murasame and Astray pilot was thinking along those lines. Captain todoka most certainly but not everyone else. Hell, if I were a hotshot pilot, like a certain Mobile Armour pilot in Gundam Seed, I rather die fighting in my ship rather than kiss some elses ass like that Yuna et al are doing.

Politicians would think that way, not soldiers. Soldiers have the unfortunate postion of actually being on the implementation side of policy. All politicians will ever see is a bill or alliance statement being signed. They wouldn't know PERSONALLY how much that decision is going to affect every ORB soldier.

And don't tell me that there are no veterans who survived the previous EAF invasion of ORB. Veterans who remember the unjust invasion on their land, only to find out they are now the servant of the same enemy that tried to destroy them before.

They have truly forgotten the ORB ideals that made ORB powerful in the first place: by standing aside from the war and accepting Coordinators as human beings. Now they're going back into the stone age phylosphically speaking.

Haiyah, maybe I should give up looking for a plotline and just focus on the fighting.