GRRM also helps write the scripts, just not the screenplay.
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GRRM also helps write the scripts, just not the screenplay.
I kinda want this answered, so I'm reposting it:
It's been a long time since I read them, but I remember [spoiler]Ned died in the first book[/spoiler], but I see him in episodes of season 2. Maybe I remember the timeline of events wrong?
edit: found it in a GoT wiki. I guess the scenes from season 2 that I saw were actually season 1 or they were flashbacks.
Let's just say that season 1 matches the first book almost exactly (from the prologue to the last chapter). In fact, from what I remember, things unfold in pretty much the same order as the POV chapters as well.
Ding dong the bitch is dead
I just finished the first season and it's like you said, it matches the first book almost exactly. The nudity really tapered off towards the end of the season, capped with Daenarys's naked rise from the fire. I hear season two has more gratuitous nudity, which is kind of a shame since the story alone should be enough to bring in viewers, but still appreciated.
Just started season 2. Does anyone know how Stannis knew about Joffrey's birth parents before spreading the word all over the seven kingdoms?
Ned Stark sent him a letter by ship if I recall correctly. It was either that or he knew all along (which is why he left king's landing in the first place).
I didn't think Ned had informed anyone before he was arrested. It was something that pissed me off, since his predecessor was killed for the information and it is news that would rock the kingdom. I might have missed it in the show though.
If you're talking about who I think you're talking about, it's technically, "ding dong the bastard is dead."
Trying to catch up, but I don't want to rush it. I rushed reading the books because they are real page turners, so it's hard to recall a lot of the story just a few years later.
So Ned actually sends the letter to Stannis in the show? Or is that wiki entry citing something from the books? I just can't recall the scene where the letter/raven is sent, though it's a small event.
Yeah. I don't remember the scene either, but basically, Ned, Littlefinger, and Varys were talking about what Ned should do. And then Ned told Varys he was going to back Stannis.
Oh weird, I found the scene in S01E07. I guess I must have started the episode and then not finished it. The scene you mentioned happens after Ned leaves Robert's deathbed, then Ned discusses it with Renly and Littlefinger individually later. Thanks for the info.
In the first book, it's strongly implied that Jon Arryn shared his investigations with Stannis. I don't recall this ever being explicitly stated in the TV show. Even without book knowledge though, it isn't too much of a stretch to assume that Stannis knew beforehand but didn't have the political capital to stay in King's Landing after Jon Arryn died.
In case you don't want to go the wikipedia route or risk spoilers in forums for all your questions, I'd recommend re-reading the books. They're very carefully written, so readers pick up a lot more when reading it again (and again).
True, they did mention that Stannis "fled" King's Landing at some point, though I don't know if they said why. It might have been because of this knowledge or at least a suspicion concerning Joffrey.
I've been wanting to re-read the series (I only got halfway through the 5th book) but I've never been one to re-read/re-play/re-watch most books/games/shows. I feel there's so much out there that re-doing anything is kind of a waste of time. But this book series definitely deserves a second read.Quote:
In case you don't want to go the wikipedia route or risk spoilers in forums for all your questions, I'd recommend re-reading the books. They're very carefully written, so readers pick up a lot more when reading it again (and again).
every time a kid is assassinated, it's the same guy pulling the strings. someone should do something about him.
and rapey incest one handed sex in the burial tomb of our son was really weird.
Beside the dead son's body.
Joffrey really got what he deserved this time.
Tyrion is such a big man in a small body.
You guys hate on Joffrey but he's a product of his upbringing. With a father like Robert (as far as he knew), a scheming mother, and a controlling grandfather, it's no wonder he turned out to be so evil and mean. He needed help.
he has two decent(ish) siblings who didn't have much screen time due to not being awefull people. they managed (tyrion even said so himself, 2 out of three).
and he seemed to like his father, actually, and robert did care for him (at least, he didn't know he was an insect boy).
although, the pressure of being king probably made it worse.
It's already been explained it's likely because of the inbreeding, same thing for the Targaryians.
I was hoping that Joffrey's body would get dragged down while his parents were having sex, then his dead body would just hang over Jamie's back while he humps Cersei. Then Cersei would say "This is not right..." and he would reply, "I don't care. I don't care."
Yes but as heir to the throne, he received special attention from his mother which was sure to warp him, more so than his younger siblings. She most likely whispered all sorts of unpleasant things about Robert to her son. I'm surprised GRRM didn't include a mother/son incest angle to their relationship.
I didn't see much in the show or the book to suggest Joffrey cared much for his father, who was often drunk or too busy with "running the kingdom" to raise his children. I think it was a stark (*wink*) contrast to a loving lord father like Ned and how he raised his children.
I remember a scene in which joffery tells Jaime that Jaime is a loser (or inferior, whatever) compared to his 'father', Robert.
father of the year? probably not. (that award goes to the guy who got an arrow through his skull and then was eaten with his wife as a side-dish), But I can't see Robert being a deliberately 'hurtful' father.
I'm really tired of the producers adding content just for the sake of being edgy. The Thenn's aren't cannabls in the least, they're one of the most advanced groups of Wildlings. Even the nudity in kings landing has been old for 2 seasons now, we get it.
On Joffrey:
Like Carnage said, it's mostly attributed to the inbreeding. I don't recall how the quote goes exactly... but to paraphrase, it's something like every time the Targaryens have a child, the gods flip a coin. Absent of that, the burden of being the first born or getting additional attention from a deranged mother (albeit a product of her environment as well) makes sense.
... found it, "Every time a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhabH70ahLQ
On Thenns and TV vs. book:
Making the Thenns cannibals doesn't matter. If you hadn't read the books and had expectations it'd work fine. I agree with the nudity though, we don't really need to be reminded again that Oberyn is about sex and revenge. I think HBO has a poor idea of their target audience.
I thought the added scene of Tywin and Tommen was quite good, though. Charles Dance has nailed both of the TV-original sequences they've given him.
I don't think that inbreeding leads to cruelty or sociopathy, those are more learned attributes. It may lead to physical weakness or deformity, or mental disability, but not what we see with Joffrey. I think environment is mostly what has led to Joffrey's evilness and pettiness. It's bad enough to be heir to a throne at a young age, but worse to have people like Cersei raising you to be selfish and heavy handed.
Tyrion and Cersei are just spit-balling about the causes of Joffrey's behavior, so I don't give too much credence to the claim that the gods decide how you will grow up to be. These people don't understand genetics or good parenting and chalk everything up to religion and mysticism. I also think it's GRRM's commentary on responsibility and reaping what you sow.
A perfect example is Lysa Arryn's son Robin. He's not the product of inbreeding but we already know he's going to be nuts when he grows up, because Lysa is a shit mother.
Fair point about genetics and Robin, but I don't think we can expect everything in GRRM's world to align with ours, given that there are fantastical elements in it. A higher power is the world of Game of Thrones very real and tangible, so there may be more to chalking things up to religion and mysticism than in our world.
You had a small typo. Dance has done plenty of middling-to-bad films (so his standards are what they are), but getting him on game of thrones was a coup in and of itself. It took the producers a while to secure him in the role though.
Same goes for Diana Rigg as Olenna Tyrell. Witty 1960s sex and feminist symbol turned into sarcastic witty grandmother, matching the character nicely. The two of them have raised the enjoyment of many scenes set in King's Landing.
Edit:
Not to mention the younger Diana Rigg shares a bit more than a passing resemblance to Natalie Dormer who plays Margaery. The cheekbones in particular.
http://i.imgur.com/vJ8roWN.jpg
True and good point, there is a lot more governed by religion and mysticism in their world than ours. I concede the point.
I'll admit that when I first read the books, it wasn't until the second book that the story moved towards magic (except Daenarys's dragons) and I wasn't happy with it. I was hoping for a pure kings and connivers story (which we got) not so much a wizards and witches theme. On film though, the story is much richer and fuller with the magic and fantasy elements.
I take it as more of a warning that inbreeding and having your parents resent each other (I guess that how it goes in forced insect situations) might not be the best thing for a child.
"...forced insect situations"
Made me LOL. That would make even couples resent each other.
I was going to post a snip from Terra ForMars, but then thought better of it.
Nice tidbit on Diana Rigg.
So damn awesome lol
http://i.imgur.com/gVUtYww.gif
Just started season 2. I love how Tyrion is cleaning house of all the backstabbers and double-dealers in the king's council.
episode five. was there a stark who wasn't assaulted this episode?
LOL, now that you mention it.
LOL the look on Cersei's face. "What do I call you...Mother, Sister?"
Also, Jon had a long sword versus two knives. Why did he swing it instead of stabbing? Way to give up your advantage, Jon.
Also, who was the guy who tried to capture Bran, the second time? He looks really familiar, but I can't place him. He was with the Night's Watch, and last week was the first time I noticed him in the Night's Watch, but he looks like somebody. Maybe somebody who cut off Jaime's hand.
That's exactly who he was. Eventually returned to the Dreadfort after taking Jamie's hand. Then upon learning from Theon than Bran and his little brother were still alive, he was sent up north after them by Lord Bolton in exchange for a lot of land. Snuck into the Night's Watch, went beyond the wall, and the rest is history.
about my previous comment, I forgot about Rikkon Stark... he didn't get hit this episode
is he still in the show?
I had to read up, but it looks like Rickon got left behind at a house loyal to the Starks -- House Umber. He hasn't been seen since last season.
Indeed. I remember it because when Ramsey Snow tortured Theon he played that guessing game and asked "Where are we?". Theon answered Bay of Seals or something like that. Ramsey answered "Do i look like a fucking Umber to you?". From the way he said it, it sounded like Umber's has peculiar traits. So when Bran sent Rickon to the Umber's it stuck in my mind.
Wow just saw the siege of King's Landing episode, pretty well done. Actually felt the fear and tension of battle. There were parts I didn't like, like Stannis leading the charge up the ladders with no helmet. For that matter, a lot of the primary characters didn't wear helmets in battle, which is Hollywood nonsense.
Mark Gatiss? In my Game of Thrones?
Theon has the Stockholm Syndrome pretty bad.
Oh shit @ Tyrion.
Holy crap at Tyrion going mental. Shay really pushed him over the edge. Wonder who he will have champion him? Bronn? Jamie? Or maybe even Oberyn. Since Jamie has had his hand cut of they might bring in The Mountain to try and secure that death. If so Oberyn should be the perfect candidate. I love how they managed to get even Shay to lie and testify against Tyrion.
BTW i got a stiffy when i saw that rising dragon taking the goats. And Daenery's got a glimps of what it is to rule. At least if you wanna be a caring ruler.
God damn! Tyrion letting it all out at the end was the most amazing shit i've seen in some time, made my hands shake from the rush ;P
So, Stanis (and the onion Knight) say that once tywion dies, there will be no legitimate power in kings' landing, because tonmen is young and there are no able men to take charge. But the situation will be the same if Stanis takes over. he's old, no male sons and he can't marry his daugther to anyone (she has that face thing), so if they chose to turn their alliance at stanis, they would be in the same problem, just ten years later and a whole lot of gold will be spent on the switch.
edit: the old guy, not his short son. fixed.
His argument was that Stanis is in his prime, with maybe 20 or more years left, and in that time he can have a son capable of ruling.
I guess he is... but Stanis looks so old, I know robert was supposed to be in his late 30's, but they all seem so much older than that.
my guess is that stanis is just 35-40. even though he looks like he's touching his sixties.
and besides, stanis has been married for a long time, and still, no heirs.
If I was one the iron bank clerks, I'd get suspicious.
Looks like GRRM agreed with me about how much magic and fantasy was included in the Song story: http://teamcoco.com/video/george-r-r...ame-of-thrones
Well now. As soon as it was reveled that The Mountain was gonna champion Cercei, i knew Oberyn was gonna champion Tyrion. And his speech gave me goosebumps. He is this seasons most interesting character. Baelish continues to impress as always.
Oberyn is awesome. I hope they show the fight in full. GoT is notorious for skipping battles and only showing the aftermath.
I imagine that's due to production budgets. Large scale battle scenes need a lot of extras, choreography, etc. I don't mind that they skip battles, they all start to look the same, and most of the actors don't appear particularly good at sword/axe/spear fighting anyway.
The title for the next episode is "The Mountain and The Viper", so i hope that the fight actually happens in that ep, lol
Jamie looks particularly lame when sword fighting. It looks so... choreographed and fake. I hope this fight is nothing like that.
Seems like the mountain got an actor change. it's happening a lot this season..
Yeah, why do they keep changing actors, do they not have any form of contracts?
Granted, it's noticeable but not super annoying for me since it's so long between each season, and so far it's not any of the actual "main" chars.
I guess it's going to be a lot more noticeable/annoying for those people that prefer to save the show and then marathon it later... going from one ep straight to the next and some people suddenly look completely different, lol
I understand the Daario change though. The previous actor would not have matched the current intelligent playboy image Daario has.
I keep seeing actors/actresses from GoT appearing in other shows (and not just the dead characters). Considering some characters don't make an appearance except once every few episodes, I'd guess they take other work where their schedule doesn't allow them to appear on GoT. Or maybe they demand more money now that the show is a success, so they get the axe.
it's both, I guess. did they finish filming before the season started, or are they still filming during it?
All 4 seasons finished filming before the seasons were aired.
Isn't this like the third actor to be playing the mountain? It's gotten real hard to take Gregor Clegane seriously in this show, which is a pity because his very mention is supposed to inspire fear. Yet whenever we get to see him, all I can think about is "who the hell is that?". This latest iteration actually reminded me of a big cuddly bear (compared to the last 2), even though the scene they introduced him in had people being sliced up by his hands.
I actually felt the same way. He looked like a cute lumbering idiot, much like a teddy bear.
He does look like a big bear, with emphasis on big... the dude is 2.05m(6' 8") tall and weighs fucking 183kg (403lbs)
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Also, that is one hell of a sword o.O
Edit: Dat feel when i noticed he was born in 1988, making him 4 years younger than me. Fuck lol
He is 2 years younger than me. WTF.
I legitimately could not remember when we were supposed to have seen him before. I'm not sure the Mountain was ever mentioned by name while he was on screen at any time prior to this. He's felt consistently like someone talked about all the time but never really shown.
He fought in a tournament in the first season. He killed Ser Hugh of the Vale.
And he showed up somewhere else, but I don't remember. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/...and_Gregor.jpg
Yeah, I remember the first actor from when he sliced off the horse's head. The second time, it was a different actor when Tywin was having a strategy meeting at Harrenhal about how to deal with Robb Stark.
That's the thing, he does look a bit young. Certainly not old enough to be the Hound's elder brother.
yep, only the first actor looks scary (or looks like he has a bit of personality). the last (and seems like 'final', as I don't think he's going to live past prince sex) looks like a generic first level boss. the kind that shows up as a mook in later stages.
Heh, cute :P
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God damnit... no episode this sunday because of some holiday shit?
Yeah. Well I am going on an anime convention so it is convenient because I won't miss it. Probably the reason.
Memorial Day in the U.S. I think they skipped a week last year too.
Yeah, Memorial Day might be one of the more important U.S. holidays...but it is on Monday. The U.S. really only has about seven major holidays (that most people get off of work). Four if you're stringent. Memorial Day weekend is all about retail sales and barbeques. Doesn't mean anything changes for Sunday night.
I guess they just assume people are traveling to visit family, parades, memorials or whatever.
Poor Jorah just cannot catch a break lol
The Hounds reaction and Arya bursting out into laughter when they got told Lysa was dead was amazing :D
And then we have the ending... Holy. Fucking. Shit.
Oberyn disappointed me. An experienced fighter would not have been killed that way. Even MMA do not make such mistakes. Always ensure that the enemy is incapacitated. He ridiculed Tyrion's lack of fighting experience, only to be killed by an error that screams immaturity.
It was a fitting end for him though. He was whimsical and careless. No matter how much skill you have, you will die with such qualities in battle. I really liked Oberyn. It is unfortunate I am disappointed yet again (as always with many other characters) by his stupidity.
The way Oberyn kept on talking/shouting at The Mountain/Lannisters, he went full Inigo Montoya lol
http://img.pandawhale.com/post-38820...ntoya-faCJ.gif
He did indeed fuck around and take way too many risks but i guess since this fight was so incredibly personal to him his feelings must have been going into overdrive and messing him up.
it was so silly seeing how they switch between the obviously skilled body doubles doing the choreography and between the sloppy editty scenes with the actual actors. I would have believed it more if Oberyn would have suffered some injuries during the battle itself, make it seem like an even match, and have the blood-loss & andernaline cloud his judgement.
I'm not sure what to make of Arya's reaction, maybe she's laughing at the hound (for going this far and still not getting paid), but I feel as if she's laughing at herself. she's starting to see the pattern here, every time she gets close to someone, there's a killing. she really should go to killer school, it seems less deadly.
What killer school?
Btw, how awesome is Sansas new look?
She even changed her hair color :eek:
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the guy who changes his face gave her a stupid bravos coin that summons him to take her to face-wraping assassin school.
she needs to find a bravos man and tell him "all men must die" (vallaar margoli) and then shit happens.
also, Loved the new evil makeover for sansa. it was an amazing scene. and the brotherly banter between Jamie and Tyrion was awesoe.
Awww :)
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She's laughing because it is the only thing she can do in a situation like that. Her life is shit. She gets the slim idea that she can get reunited with whatever is left of her family and she's already dead when they get there. Just like with her mother.
It was a beautifully acted scene. Her laughter seems good natured and natural, but there's faint look of sadness there too (when she raises her eyebrows it looks like she's about to start crying).
The Hound too. At first he's pissed, then horrified, then shocked, then dumbstruck at his shitty luck all in a few seconds.
They might have told her that her sister was still alive if Littlefinger hadn't lied to the guards. But Arya doesn't even get that much. She really has the worst luck. If she was only a sliver more fortunate, someone would have killed her by now and spared her from the misery.
I think Im going to drop this show after this season, 90% of this episode was ridiculous filler.
Edit: And I'm tired of the writers changing the actual scenes from the books. Sansa was not supposed to reveal her identity to the lords of the Vale, only defend Little Finger.
Is the non-canon writing so bad that you couldn't enjoy it on its own merits? I read the complaints about the gratuitous sex and nudity and changes from the books in the second and third seasons, but I didn't see all that much of it when watching those seasons. Did you read the books recently? Maybe you're remembering them incorrectly or incompletely.
Some things I find different from the books, not necessarily bad, just different:
Sansa is more of a victim that you feel compassion for that the obnoxious dumb bitch she is in the books.
Lord Varys is a lot more likable in the show than in the books. His motives are more noble and less seedy.
I have not read the books, but a friend of mine (who is a writer) actually says that the show is better than the books since it cuts out a lot of fat, like POV characters that will die right after being introduced. He also said that the show changed or combined some characters to give them more weight.
I do not think that deviation from the original makes a story worse. Sometimes it actually improves it. I am not really seeing the deterioration some book fans are saying about the series.
I do have a lot of complaints that book fans do not really speak about, like why the hell is Oberyn using shaolin staff techniques using a spear, but I can look past those because of the great dialog and story.
This weeks episode was fantastic!
Btw, was this the first ep in the series where the whole thing was pretty much focused on a single location instead of jumping around between places/storylines?
I think so.
in the big fight scene, when the camera hovered and different angles of the courtyard fight went on... amazing.
What was the point of the big forest fire? What was the point of not attacking en masse? They could have raped the wall, easily.
John Snow really stepped up, though.
One thing that did bother me was that when Jon left, why the fuck didn't he take Ghost with him?
Which makes no sense. He is planning to kill the enemy leader. He needs all the help he can get.
The reason why the wildlings did not attack en masse is because this was a test of the defenses. It makes tactical sense.
I did not get the logical reason for the fire aside from intimidation though.
I'm still catching up, almost finished with season 3. It's weird, I know I should applaud the likes of Locke for tormenting Jaime Lannister and the guy who is torturing Theon, but it's hard to cheer them when Jaime and Theon are in such shit states. We know Jaime and Theon deserve pain, but we also know the motives for the evils they have done are complicated and somewhat justified. Can't wait to catch up so I can join in more timely discussion of this series.
They also gave themselves a chance to regroup and plan based on what they learned from the initial attack. Snow said so himself in this episode.
They aren't fighting just to win. It makes sense that they want to win with the least amount of sacrifices. Forcing a charge when you can try again with less casualties is foolish. I am not saying this will actually happen, but from the perspective of the invader, it seems optimal.
They can't just chip away at the wall, so an en masse attack would be useless. From what I remember of the books, the Giant's attack on the gates was crucial to Mance Rayder's plan and it was actually another character that helped to seal the gate during the fight (Grenn isn't supposed to have died).
So at this point we should be cheering for Mance and his wildlings to succeed and bring war to Westeros which is ruled by the evil Lannisters.