statues/border and kabuto question

i dont have the manga with me to see but there is a map that kabuto shows early on displaying all the different 'hidden' countries and it includes sound. now since sound is new they had to take their 'land' from somewhere right?

ok so now we saw naruto and sasuke standing over statues, of the 1st hokage and another opposing ninja who i am guessing was kage of the land that previously owned the territory known as sound. what country was that? are they at the border that naruto is not allowed to cross? thats what i thought since they have different ninja facing each other.


About kabuto. so there was a battle at some pass in which the leaf killed a bunch of enemy ninja's and seem to have won. anbu medical specialist took kabuto when he was young (4 or so i am guessing, i am sure someone can actually figure it out) and raised him. now kabuto was already acting as a spy for orochi and he also has some strange bloodlimit that was hinted at during the chuunin exam, but which we didnt see at all during the fight with the rasengan.

Also, after the prelims, kabuto talks with orochi and for some reason orochi says that if you want to defeat me you will have to kill sasuke. now as far as i have seen kabuto is loyal to orochi. why would orochi talk about fighting him (hence the mention of being equal to kakashi) and talk about him killing sasuke? not sure what this board ever decided and cant find a thread answering this so any thoughts please.

hmm on the land issue i guess there was a country without a hidden village so orochimaru made an agreement with them so he could create one.

on the kabuto thing, well not much need to be said since you pretty much said it all but the fighting thing is probably something he said because kabuto dont agree with orochimaru on how to do things all the time.

yeah but disagreeing with your boss and wanting to stop and kill him are two different things. that conversation lead me to believe that orochi was either testing kabuto to see if he would go against him, or that he really thought kabuto would go against and seeing if he would do it right then and there. almost the same but a slight distinction.

was odd and after kabuto saves orochi later on i guess kabuto is a good loyal sound spy. it was just weird and always bugged me.

hmm orochimaru is a guy that could kill his own mother if he gained from it so i dont think its weird for him to say something like that to his righthand man. i guess its something very common in orochimarus wolrd..

Heheh. thats what makes Naruto so interesting. It's like LOTR, you just want to know the whole of the Naruto universe and all the history of it. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

yea naruto really got lots of loose threads everywhere, many characters with unknown pasts etc. thats what makes it so fun to talk about it this much and if ppl talk about it this much is a great series.

that conversation with kabuto hbas bugged me for a while too...i think that he will eventually turn on orochimaru...
but its more likely that the scene was meant to foreshadow the confrontation kabuto would have with kakashi

It bugged me too. First, why compare him and his potential to kakashi. Another thing, why would he go to all the trouble of killing the anbu at the hospital. It doesn't seem as though he really wanted to kill sasuke. if he did, then why stand around and play games with kakashi. Also what des oro have over kabuto that's so important. i can't figure whose side that guy is on. he saves hinata at the stadium when he's there to supposedly destroy the leaf. he didn't have to. at times he seems like he's forced to do what he does. and at times, it seems as though he does them because he's loyal and wants to.

What's up with that guy? He seems too smart to be going with oro's bull

Perhaps Kabuto possesed the body of the 4 year old boy using Orochimaru's technique thus making him the perfect spy. Also if this is true then perhaps Kabuto had some conection with Tsunade to learn some of her medical techniques. Maybe Orochi has known him since he was still with the leafs giving him some sort of connection with Kakashi. Maybe he was even the 4ths 3rd student, the first being Kakashi and the second being the cigarette guy (i forgot his name).

okay its not certain that asuma is 4th 2nd student and the 3rd student is a girl that looks like sakura(pink hair and all)

my guess is that he spyed on the leaf for too long, he got attached to the village and its ppl therefore he doesnt like doing what he does sometimes.. it would fit him somehow be the unsuccessful spy. hmm well i really dont know.

I think asuma is definately the 4ths other student considering the straw sticking out of his mouth and the fact that he is related to the 3rd (son maybe). Being related to the 3rd Hokage would probably get you special privaliges like being the 4th Hokage's student.
I know the other student was a girl but if that girl used Orochi's possesion tech then she could posses 4 yr old Kabuto.
This would explain how someone could be a spy starting at age 4.
But you are probably right that there is no conection between the pink haird girl and Kabuto ive just been dying to know who she is b/c i can match just about every other face from the 3rds flashbacks except hers.
My other theory is that she is Kikashi's fallen comrade.

there is nothing that has stated that asuma is related to 3rd and konohamaru its just speculation since he got the same name. and there is no guarantee that obito isnt the guy with the glasses. so we can only speculate around this.

actually i think the kid with the cigarette or whatever (that is with kakashi under the 4th) is dead. why? because kakashi said that his best friend or friends were killed saving him or something and he goes to that grave/shrine thing all the time. i always assumed that other kid was his friend who died. (another ninja says his name but i dont remember it)

when did asuma (toothpick guy?) become the 3rd's son? that seems like a major stretch and i dont remember any indication of it.


oh and kabuto. . . he is definatly a weird guy. saves hinata, kills three anbu and then acts as if he is going to kill sasuke. he is nice at the weirdest times but i think he is loyal to roochi, granted in a weird way.

I dont think the assumption that they Asuma is related to the 3rd based off the fact that they both have the same surname is uncalled for. Especially sence you know that the 3rd has children/a child b/c Konohamaru is his grandson (its kinda hard to have kids without grandkids). But i wasnt saying that Asuma is definately his son i just thought of it as a possibility because they ARE from the same clan meaning that they ARE related.

And why would they bother put a straw in that kids mouth inless they were trying to display the connection between the young version and the old version. Plus you can tell that Kakashi has known Asuma for a while because that other female jounin is new to them. And its not just b/c these are her first students, b/c these are also Kakashi's first students all the others have failed. So you know Kakashi and Asuma have known each other for a while.

The son connection is purely speculation but i dont think that it is too much of a stretch.

ok dont you think there are other ways to knowing someone then to be childhood friends? kakashi says many times that the ppl important to him have all died. and its a little weird if one of his teamates wasnt an important person. so my guess is that the boy with glasses and toothpick is obito and not asuma.

obito! that was his name. i definatly think straw and weird glasses kid is obito and he is dead saving kakashi

kakashi has had other students. they just didnt pass. i am guessing the other jounin dont have that same level of test and kakashi is an extreme case (for good reason in his mind of course)

no real comment on the asuma thing, never really thought about it, dont remember where they say clan names and all that to make the reference but leaning against it at the moment. the hair color is a little different i think and while i doubt the animators are really worried about genetic similarities i just dont think thats it. oh well it was a new thought at least.

back to an original question. the two statues. one i think is the first hokage, do you think the one on the left is the 2nd or a kage of a neighboring country?

hmm kakashi's test isnt that extreme 3rd used it on the sannin and they all passed and became great ninjas. jiraiya used it on 4th and his teammates and 4th grew to become one helle of a ninja and 4th used it on kakashi, kakashi didnt make it that far but he is still quite the guy. and kakashi used it on team 7 so lets see what the future got in store for three possibly strong ninjas... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] thats pretty lame, the last sentence that is....

hmm it could be the 2nd if it was before he got a haircut and a new forhead thingy. it looks like amidamaru from shaman king maybe a cameo(sort of)

But who were the 4th's TEAMMATES?! :'(

Asuma definetly looks alot like the 3rd. They both have the same facial structure and facial hair. Plus this kid with glasses and straw in mouth looks similar to the 3rd did when he was a kid. Ive always thought that the other girl was Obito most likely not the guy. But i could be completely off on who Kakashi's teamates were but Asuma is definetley related to the 3rd.

One of the 4th's teamates was the girl who was in charge of the second exam. I think she was originaly Jaraiya's student but became Orochimaru's student when she became older. The girl with Oro in the flashback and the girl with Jaraiya and the young 4th look exactly the same except for different clothing

no she was orochimaru student from the start. and her name is anko. no one knows who the 4th teammates were. probably to no name ninjas maybe the weakest and one average.

Back to the Kabuto thingy...I really don't see him as a ninja that has become attached to the Leaf Ninjas, because of the way he's treated Tsunade and Naruto. If anything, Kabuto scares me even more than Oro because we don't know his reasons for siding with the sound. Kabuto doesn't have a seal, and yet he seems to be Oro's strongest and most loyal servant. Am I missing something here?

It was never said that she was Orochimarus student from the start plus if she was his student from the start why werent two more people shown in the picture. Also, she looked older in the picture with Oro than all the other students did with their teachers. Her connection to Oro might be closer to Narutos with Jaraiya.

actually we did see a picture of the guys that were with the 4th under jiraiya. i believe the 1st examiner Oda? the torture guy. . i would guess he is one of them. also since jiraiya recognized him and that short conversation led me to believe that. dont know who the other member was.


Anko. . . true they didnt show her with other people which i thought odd as well, maybe as onlyelliot said she was a more direct student, not a team. i dont see orochi bothering to teach a team in the first place. but it might have just been the author not wanting to create more characters.

and yeah kabuto is definatly the weirdest cat out there.

I thought the same thing about Orochimaru. Also him taking Anko as his student would strengthen the relationship between the 4th and Jaraiya. Similar to how Kakashi focused on Sasuke and Naruto trained under Jaraiya. Just because she was Orochimaru's student doesnt mean she wasnt on the team with the 4th before that.