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sasuke is gonna marry orochimaru, fertilize his eggs, and then orochimaru will lay eggs. the new hatchlings will become super snakes with sharingans! eventually they will make a super army of these sharingan snakes and copy every technique in the world.
i'll be serious since no one likes being serious anymore, everyone is trying to be all funny by being sarcastic.
it's possible to resurrect his clan but i don't think it's possible for sasuke to have a sharingan bearing child. it said that only a select few members of the uchiha clan is born with the sharingan which means that it's a recessive trait. so... i don't think it's possible for sasuke's and non-uchiha girl's child to be able to have the sharingan which is the reason why uchiha is such a feared and powerful clan.
but then again, this is an anime. so all of what i said is probably thrown out the window.
It would be possible for Sasuke and a non-Uchiha girl to have a child with the sharingan ability. Let me explain big x denoted as "X," which is dominant. Sasuke isn't recessive because he has Sharingan, so he is denoted as "XY" for the sharingan trait. Little x denoted as "x" represents recessive trait. The female will have "xx" for the trait. So there is a 1/4 or 25% chance that they will have a baby with the Sharingan trait.Quote:
Originally posted by: Mut@t@
i'll be serious since no one likes being serious anymore, everyone is trying to be all funny by being sarcastic.
it's possible to resurrect his clan but i don't think it's possible for sasuke to have a sharingan bearing child. it said that only a select few members of the uchiha clan is born with the sharingan which means that it's a recessive trait. so... i don't think it's possible for sasuke's and non-uchiha girl's child to be able to have the sharingan which is the reason why uchiha is such a feared and powerful clan.
but then again, this is an anime. so all of what i said is probably thrown out the window.
Now if Sasuke was recessive for the sharingan trait and he mated with a non-uchiha girl, then there would be no chance in hell that the baby would have Sharingan abilities. Unless Sasuke isn't really the father.
id say sakura, since shes quite useless in everything else. she has to do it.
let's say:
X = no sharingan (dominant)
x = sharingan (recessive)
sasuke = xx
random non-uchiha female = XX
---------------------------------------
a child born with sharingan must have xx and can't be xX or Xx since capital X is dominant.
if sasuke (xx) and random non-uchiha (XX) were to have a child, the posibilities are: xX, Xx, xX, and Xx. therefore, sasuke can't have a child born with sharingan with a random non-uchiha female.
sasuke MUST be recessive since he said that only a few select members are born with sharingan. most people have at least one of the dominant (X) genes in their blood, and only a few have both recessive genes (xx). that's why only a small number of them have sharingan.
and even if sasuke were to have a baby with sharingan, the kid would have to be a full uchiha to be able to use mangekyou sharingan. which is why the sharingan is so deadly.
i don't know, i might be missing something.
Listen, you all got it wrong...
Itachi will be the one to restore the clan!
when Sasuke comes to him, after selling his soul to Orochimaru, they'll have a big (well, not big, pretty puny, it's Sasuke after all)fight, which Sasuke will lose in, and then try a real suicide move (body explosion maybe?) which won't do anything to Itachi, but will cuase Sasuke to die in a matter of mintues.
then Itachi will realize that his whole 'i was good from the beginning' plot has failed, and will tell Sasuke the truth (that he isn't the one who whacked thier clan), and sasuke will be really pissed that he wasted his life, but will ask Itachi to complete his goal and restore thier clan...
then Itachi will go to Orochimaru, bitchslap him to death, and after that he genjutsu a bunch of fertile (sp?) super models to sleep with him and carry his babies.
really, that's how it's gonna be...
Let me explain agan DazzzQuote:
Originally posted by: Mut@t@
let's say:
X = no sharingan (dominant)
x = sharingan (recessive)
sasuke = xx
random non-uchiha female = XX
---------------------------------------
a child born with sharingan must have xx and can't be xX or Xx since capital X is dominant.
if sasuke (xx) and random non-uchiha (XX) were to have a child, the posibilities are: xX, Xx, xX, and Xx. therefore, sasuke can't have a child born with sharingan with a random non-uchiha female.
sasuke MUST be recessive since he said that only a few select members are born with sharingan. most people have at least one of the dominant (X) genes in their blood, and only a few have both recessive genes (xx). that's why only a small number of them have sharingan.
and even if sasuke were to have a baby with sharingan, the kid would have to be a full uchiha to be able to use mangekyou sharingan. which is why the sharingan is so deadly.
i don't know, i might be missing something.
The gene is considered recessive if it is present in the person but isn't expressed. The gene is dominant when it is expressed.
Yes the gene is recessive for the majority of the Uchihas, because even though they carry the sharingan gene, they don't have it.
Sasuke's sharingan gene is dominant. Why? Because he has the sharingan.
So to clear up your confusion:
Dominant doesn't mean for the majority of a population. It just means that it is expressed for that certain individual.
Recessive doesn't mean for the majority of the population as you suggested; it just means that the gene isn't expressed for that particular individual.
It's on an individual basis.
Therefore having the sharingan would mean that the sharingan trait is dominant.
Not having the sharingan trait would mean that the sharingan trait is recessive.
omg wtf... i'm so confused... someone else clear this up for us.
EDIT:
example, if 80 out of 100 people don't have blonde and have brunette instead, doesn't that mean blonde is a recessive trait? and not having blonde hair is the dominant trait?
someone just answer this.
i concure with hiten. he knows his biology.
Sasuke and Hinata...both full advanced bloodline characters...their offspring would have the Sharinkyuugan...Byakuugan (spelling? i think it's right...) with the ability to copy an opponents moves while using gentle fist techniques...also, eliminates the blind spot of the Byakuugan (Neji's weakness during the 4 sound ninja fight)...downside: user loses the Mange Sharingan Technique...but look at what you would gain: Sharingan (copy techniques, and f*ck with peoples minds), and Byakuugan (pinpoint Chakra holes, Gentle Fist Style, and no blind spot!)...that would be a badass character...
Oh, please!Quote:
Originally posted by: ssjtrunks585
Sasuke and Hinata...both full advanced bloodline characters...their offspring would have the Sharinkyuugan...Byakuugan (spelling? i think it's right...) with the ability to copy an opponents moves while using gentle fist techniques...also, eliminates the blind spot of the Byakuugan (Neji's weakness during the 4 sound ninja fight)...downside: user loses the Mange Sharingan Technique...but look at what you would gain: Sharingan (copy techniques, and f*ck with peoples minds), and Byakuugan (pinpoint Chakra holes, Gentle Fist Style, and no blind spot!)...that would be a badass character...
Hinata has way better taste than that.
1.She is the only girl who doesn't give a rat's ass about Sasky. Which in itself should redeem her of all her possible flaws.
2. She has enough probs with her own blood-line. Why mess with another one, way more screwed than her own? She knows better.
4. Why would she want to be member of a family that would make her have Itachi as a brother in law?
She probably knows what kind of brotherly love Itachi-anchan has in his heart.
5, She is nice and Naruto is nice. So they will have nice and kawaii kids. Maybe even a silver fox, a cross between her byakugan eyes and Naruto's kyuubi. Why would they want to have a badass kid? A kyuubi *with* byakugan wouldn't be da bomb. I mean, the kid wouldn't care less about weak spots, since way before someone goe even closer of the brat, the kyuubi would be already done with him cuz the byakugan would have show the bastart to him in advance.
And remember that Naruto's chacra and the kyuubi are mixing. So if you want red eyes, that would be also possible.
Besides, Kishimoto really need to find something to give Sakura to do.
Pink haired and red eyed kids may look sorta cute. Well, they again, they can be born red haired and pink eyed...
And yeah, Itachi will realize the big mistake he made by killing all the Uchihas *but* the only one who deserved to die.
So after killing Sasky all his past sins will be forgiven, he will be reinstated as an Anbu captain and therefore the Anbu will stop sucking and he will marry Anko, ironically, making Oro's dream come true and breeding little red eyed snakes.
The Uchiha are done for, Sasuke will eventually kill Itachi, and ending up dying at some point as well.
That would be too good to be true.Quote:
Originally posted by: KonohamaruCorps
The Uchiha are done for, Sasuke will eventually kill Itachi, and ending up dying at some point as well.
umm.. okay let me try using my bio for this.
S = dominant gene (having no sharingan)
s = recessive gene (having sharingan)
If you have the sharingan it does not mean Sharingan is a dominant trait. A dominant trait is a trait that covers a recessive trait. So, for the sharingan to show you would need to have both recessive genes, assuming that the sharingan is a recessive trait ( which would explain why only a chosen few have it ). So for Sasuke to have the sharingan he would have to have both recessive traits. There are only four choices: SS (no sharingan and no uchiha blood/not part of clan), Ss (no sharingan because dominant gene covers recessive trait, but still a carrier for uchiha gene), sS (same), and ss (having sharingan). So since Sasuke had sharingan, he would have to be ss. If he were to marry a non-uchiha girl (which he has to since the entire clan was wiped out), she would have to be SS. So if they were to have kids the only choices for their kids would be: Ss, Ss, Ss, Ss (no sharingan, but carrier; see figure). So it would be impossible for any of the kids in the next generation to have the Sharingan, but the generation after could.
.....s......s-----Sasuke
S..Ss....Ss
S..Ss....Ss
|
non-uchiha girl
Figure
EDIT:
Quote:
Originally posted by: Mut@t@
example, if 80 out of 100 people don't have blonde and have brunette instead, doesn't that mean blonde is a recessive trait? and not having blonde hair is the dominant trait?
someone just answer this.
no. this isnt neccessary true. It could just be that in that gene pool, the parent generation were all brunette. However, i think brunette hair is a dominant trait. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]. However, in certain cases, such as dimples the dominant trait is Not the most common. Dimples is a dominant gene, but most people do not have them.
hahaha its funny that this post came up 5 days before my Bio AP test. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
1 years ago We had a discussion on what would happen if sasuke and hinata mate... and alot of results came out lol... eventually people came up with sasata or shinatague etc etc... It became quite funny lol.
Quote:
Originally posted by: originalkrn
umm.. okay let me try using my bio for this.
S = dominant gene (having no sharingan)
s = recessive gene (having sharingan)
If you have the sharingan it does not mean Sharingan is a dominant trait. A dominant trait is a trait that covers a recessive trait. So, for the sharingan to show you would need to have both recessive genes, assuming that the sharingan is a recessive trait ( which would explain why only a chosen few have it ). So for Sasuke to have the sharingan he would have to have both recessive traits. There are only four choices: SS (no sharingan and no uchiha blood/not part of clan), Ss (no sharingan because dominant gene covers recessive trait, but still a carrier for uchiha gene), sS (same), and ss (having sharingan). So since Sasuke had sharingan, he would have to be ss. If he were to marry a non-uchiha girl (which he has to since the entire clan was wiped out), she would have to be SS. So if they were to have kids the only choices for their kids would be: Ss, Ss, Ss, Ss (no sharingan, but carrier; see figure). So it would be impossible for any of the kids in the next generation to have the Sharingan, but the generation after could.
EDIT:
Quote:
Originally posted by: Mut@t@
example, if 80 out of 100 people don't have blonde and have brunette instead, doesn't that mean blonde is a recessive trait? and not having blonde hair is the dominant trait?
someone just answer this.
no. this isnt neccessary true. It could just be that in that gene pool, the parent generation were all brunette. However, i think brunette hair is a dominant trait. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]. However, in certain cases, such as dimples the dominant trait is Not the most common. Dimples is a dominant gene, but most people do not have them.
hahaha its funny that this post came up 5 days before my Bio AP test. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
Well you better get a better understanding of genes and traits then, because you got it all wrong.
One last time:
dominat = allele that is expressed over another allele. (it has nothing to do with how many people in the population has that trait, it's on an individual basis).
recessive = allele that is not expressed while another allele is present. (it has nothing to do with how many people in the population has that trait, it's on an individual basis).
Because the Sharingan allele is expressed over regular eyes, the sharingan allele is dominant.
Just because the majority of the Uchiha clan doesn't have the sharingan, that doesn't make the sharingan recessive for everyone in the population. You have to understand this basic principle. It's on an individual basis.
Example:
An uchiha without Sharingan would have a recessive sharingan allele = xx
An uchiha with sharingan would have a dominant sharingan allele = XX or Xx (female) or XY (male)
another example:
A person with blue eyes would be dominant for the blue eye allele and recessive for the brown eye allele.
a person with brown eyes would be recessive for the blue eye allele and dominant for the brown eyes allele.
This example is wrong:
Since 75% of the population has brown eyes. Then the brown eyes allele must be dominant.
The preceding statement would be false.
To even have a chance at inheriting a trait:
One of the partners has to at least carry the trait. (in this case it's the sharingan) Yes, Sasuke carries the sharingan trait, which is dominant because it is expressed over the regular eyes.
Therefore if you put it into a putted square, he and his partner has a 25% chance of having a baby with dominate sharingan alleles.
Good Luck on your test.
i don't understand why you're including 'Y' into this when all it is is x and X.
a female being (XX) and a male being (XY) shouldn't have anything to do with what we're talking about. i'm just using the letter 'x' as an example. when i switch the letter 'x' to 's' then this:
doesn't work.Quote:
Example:
An uchiha without Sharingan would have a recessive sharingan allele = xx
An uchiha with sharingan would have a dominant sharingan allele = XX or Xx (female) or XY (male)
from this:
S = dominant
s = recessive
hiten, just tell me what a person needs to have (SS, Ss, or ss) to be born with sharingan. then i can go on with my argument...
this guy is taking his bio ap test soon, i would think that he knows his stuff.
anyway, it's 2vs1 hiten, you lose. lol, j/k... someone else with knowledge come into this plz.
*Applauds hiten mitsurugi's mad biology skills*
lmao okay... doode.. youre wrong. Here we go. Just because the Sharingan is shown OVER not having the sharingan does not mean its dominant. A dominant trait is a trait that blocks off the other recessive gene, meaning the phenotype for the dominant gene is expressed. Having sharingan/not having sharingan = same as having brown hair vs blonde hair (because they are both on the same allele and share the same loci). For example, albinism is recessive. And coincidently, the eyes of an albino are red. And just because the albino's eyes are shown red does not mean that the red is shown OVER regular eyes . But for the red eye to show (or more correctly to be not dominated by the dominant gene), the albino would need two recessive genes. Now let me quote you "Because the Sharingan allele is expressed over regular eyes, the sharingan allele is dominant". That is proven to be entirely NOT true. And another quote "Just because the majority of the Uchiha clan doesn't have the sharingan, that doesn't make the sharingan recessive for everyone in the population. You have to understand this basic principle. It's on an individual basis." Hey, if the sharingan is recessive for anyone, then its recessive for everyone cuz its the same gene.
However, one fact that we do not know is whether the Sharingan is recessive or dominant, but what i'm explaining is that just because the "sharingan is shown over the regular eyes" , it doesnt mean its dominant. And also, its more safe to assume that its recessive because of one reason : Only a chosen few have the sharingan.
Lastly, i know that even if its a dominant trait, it can still be more rare than the recessive ... just like i explained in my previous post about the dimples, but if nothing happened to the population, then there would always be a constant proportion of dominant over recessive in a 3:1 ratio (which is proven by the Hardy-Weinburg law - go look it up)
Quote:
Originally posted by: hiten mitsurugi
A person with blue eyes would be dominant for the blue eye allele and recessive for the brown eye allele.
a person with brown eyes would be recessive for the blue eye allele and dominant for the brown eyes allele.
okay.. i read the bottom half of your response and i dont think you understand that genes are already set as either recessive or dominant. In real life, okay this is real life now: a brown eye pigment gene is dominant over nearly every other eye pigment gene. And a blue eye would be recessive. So it would be:
B = brown eye dominant gene
b= blue eye recessive gene
So a guy with brown eyes can either be homogenous for brown eyes (BB) or heterogenous (Bb) to have the brown eye gene dominate over the blue eye gene. And a girl with blue eyes can only be homogenous for blue eyes (bb) or else the dominant gene (B) will dominate over the blue gene. And that is how dominant over recessive genes work.
Go slow pal, that's too much for some.Quote:
[i]
okay.. i read the bottom half of your response and i dont think you understand that genes are already set as either recessive or dominant. In real life, okay this is real life now: a brown eye pigment gene is dominant over nearly every other eye pigment gene. And a blue eye would be recessive. So it would be:
B = brown eye dominant gene
b= blue eye recessive gene
So a guy with brown eyes can either be homogenous for brown eyes (BB) or heterogenous (Bb) to have the brown eye gene dominate over the blue eye gene. And a girl with blue eyes can only be homogenous for blue eyes (bb) or else the dominant gene (B) will dominate over the blue gene. And that is how dominant over recessive genes work.
But I have a question. Does gayness run in the family?
I will be back eventually with some evidence and will ask your knowledgeable opinion about that...
I'm no biology major (far from it actually), but from what I learned in jr. high my understanding of the dominant/recessive genes is the same as Mut@t@ / dazzz and originalkrn. I've never heard of the definitions that hiten uses before for dominant and recessive but then I haven't studied biology in seven years...
EDIT:
By the way, I say that Sasuke either gets with Sakura eventually or DIES AT THE HANDS OF ITACHI
die Sasuke diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiie...
Naw, he'll probably get done in by something long before anything happens between him and resurrection / Itachi. Something like getting screwed by a 3rd party (read: orochimaru)
The blond Gean is being breed out. there are vary few Naturally blond people in this world. and with all the people dyeing there hair. the true blonds geans are being eleminated
How is it that people dye-ing their hair breed blond hair out? It's nothing to do with genes. It's not that people are taking gene manipulation's to colour their hair. Heheh.
[quote]
Originally posted by: Mut@t@
i don't understand why you're including 'Y' into this when all it is is x and X.
q]
Y is the sex-link characteristics. You wouldn't be a male otherwise.
Yes it does. If you're an uchiha, you are a carrier for the sharingan allele. If you have the sharingan, then the sharingan allele is dominant. If you don't have the sharingan then the sharingan allele is recessive. That's how it works. You can't have sharingan with a recessive allele. If it is recessive, it isn't going to show.Quote:
lmao okay... doode.. youre wrong. Here we go. Just because the Sharingan is shown OVER not having the sharingan does not mean its dominant.
Read my second post. I clearly stated that the sharingan is a recessive trait, because the majority of uchiha population doesn't have it. But, you have to differentiate between the populus and an individual. This is where you and Dazzz are confused. Sasuke's Sharingan allele is dominant, obviously because he has it. It isn't recessive. Don't confuse the individuals traits with the populus traits.Quote:
Lastly, i know that even if its a dominant trait, it can still be more rare than the recessive ... just like i explained in my previous post about the dimples, but if nothing happened to the population, then there would always be a constant proportion of dominant over recessive in a 3:1 ratio (which is proven by the Hardy-Weinburg law - go look it up)
I'm glad that you, at least, understand this part of it. So if you understand this then you should see why I stated that they have a 25% chance of having a baby with sharingan. LOL... use a putted square and some statistics and you'll see why.Quote:
So a guy with brown eyes can either be homogenous for brown eyes (BB) or heterogenous (Bb) to have the brown eye gene dominate over the blue eye gene. And a girl with blue eyes can only be homogenous for blue eyes (bb) or else the dominant gene (B) will dominate over the blue gene. And that is how dominant over recessive genes work.
i don't want to talk about this anymore... my brain hurts.
hiten, i think you are misunderstanding dominant and recessive. You are saying that dominance is the trait that is shown physically (at least thats what im getting???).Quote:
Originally posted by: hiten mitsurugi
Read my second post. I clearly stated that the sharingan is a recessive trait, because the majority of uchiha population doesn't have it. But, you have to differentiate between the populus and an individual. This is where you and Dazzz are confused. Sasuke's Sharingan allele is dominant, obviously because he has it. It isn't recessive. Don't confuse the individuals traits with the populus traits.
...
I'm glad that you, at least, understand this part of it. So if you understand this then you should see why I stated that they have a 25% chance of having a baby with sharingan. LOL... use a putted square and some statistics and you'll see why.
So lets say that B = brown eye, b = blue eye.
According to your definition of dominance, Bb is brown eye dominant, bB is brown eye dominant, BB is brown eye dominant, and bb is blue eye dominant?
bb does NOT mean blue eye dominant, it means that the blue eye trait will show. By DEFINITION, B is a DOMINANT trait, By DEFINITION b is a RECESSIVE trait.
Now people are saying that the sharingang is a recessive trait (which i have an argument against, ill explain in a sec), and that only those in the Uchiha family carry this gene. So for any uchiha child to have the sharingan, both of their parents must carry this gene. They dont neccesarily have to PHYSICALLY show the trait, because they can both be carriers (e.g. have a genotype of Ss).
For some reason, i think i heard that the sharignan is more powerful in other Uchihas than others? Because of this idea, i am thinking that the sharingan is not a recessive trait, but a co-dominant traits. It could be that the sharingan gene in general is extremely rare, so the general population has 0 sharingnan genes, and the Uchiha family has like .001% sharingan. Still extremely small (which would explain the rarity), but a number which could give rise to sharingan children. It would explain the differing power levels, and could possibly explain kakashis eye (kakashi is a bastard child of an uchiha marriage, and his sharingan gene was weak).
Of course the most accepted theory regarding kakakshis eye is that he stole it, so if that theory is true than that hurts my codominance argument. Overall im more inclined to believe the recessive idea, but i dont believe we can say for 100% sure that it is recessive (unless it is specifically stated as such, which it may very well be lol).
I might be wrong, but i think its called a punnet square? Anyways, assuming that Sasuke is ss, and his mate is SS (because only the uchiha family are carriers for the gene, the general population is dominant for normal eyes), there is absolutely NO WAY that any of their children will have the gene (assuming we use the recessive theory).
Here is the punnet/putted square:
__s__s
---------|
S|Ss|Ss|
-|-------|
S|Ss|Ss|
----------
Sasuke on top, chick on the side. All of their children will be carriers. None will display the trait. If you inbred the kids, the f2 generation would have a 25% chance of having children.
Im not saying u dont know ur bio, but i just think that you have terms confused [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]
EDIT: OMG I AER TEH NUMBAR 1 SEPLLAR!!11 fixed spelling errors...
Quote:
hiten, i think you are misunderstanding dominant and recessive. You are saying that dominance is the trait that is shown physically (at least thats what im getting???).
Here's the definition. (Not just my definition)Quote:
So lets say that B = brown eye, b = blue eye. According to your definition of dominance, Bb is brown eye dominant, bB is brown eye dominant, BB is brown eye dominant, and bb is blue eye dominant?
bb does NOT mean blue eye dominant, it means that the blue eye trait will show. By DEFINITION, B is a DOMINANT trait, By DEFINITION b is a RECESSIVE trait.
dominant - Genetics. Of, relating to, or being an allele that produces the same phenotypic effect whether inherited with a homozygous or heterozygous allele. Genetics. A dominant allele or trait.
Do you see the word "phenotypic?" (Phenotype)
definition of phenotypic, the visible properties of an organism that are produced by the interaction of the genotype and the environment
I am not misunderstanding anything. dominance is the trait that is shown/expressed (phenotype, physical or biochemical characteristics ) over another allele.
This is such a simple concept. I'm giving up on you guys after this
Your square is incorrect. Their immediate (female) offspring 25% will have the possibility of acquiring sharingan.
If you think about it, the Sharingan can't be a recessive trait. Because that would mean that the Entire Uchiha clan is incredibly inbread, and all of the Uchihas would have extra limbs or something. They would be freaks, albeit freaks with really cool eyes.
So, maybe the Sharingan gene shows up in the regular people from time to time, but never manifests itself because it is a recessive gene. If thats true, then Uchihas can marry outside the clan, but only to those who have a recessive Uchiha gene, to prevent inbreeding. The gene must be somewhere in the regular population, because otherwise the Uchiha clan could of never come into existence.
most likely it will be sakura, but as mut@t@ said only a select few in the uchiha clan are born with the sharingan, but if it was to happen ima have to go with sakura
Ok reareading your first post i think i know what the issue is, you are thinking that it is a sex linked trait (which would explain using x's and y's).Quote:
Originally posted by: hiten mitsurugi
Do you see the word "phenotypic?" (Phenotype)
definition of phenotypic, the visible properties of an organism that are produced by the interaction of the genotype and the environment
I am not misunderstanding anything. dominance is the trait that is shown/expressed (phenotype, physical or biochemical characteristics ) over another allele.
This is such a simple concept. I'm giving up on you guys after this
Your square is incorrect. Their immediate (female) offspring 25% will have the possibility of acquiring sharingan.
If that is the case, then yes, you have been correct this whole time, but you NEVER mentioned once that you believed it was sex linked.
My punnet square does not use sex linked traits, so it is not wrong (no x's and y's) going by purely dominant/recessive interactions. And assuming that the allele for the sharingan is a recessive allele on the x chromosome, there still would be no chance of any f1 offspring having the trait.
Basic Biology
In genetics the term DOMINANT usually refers to alleles, not to which phenotype is expressed. You even said it quoted it in your definition, it is a dominant allele or trait. Yes, if we have two reccessive alleles, the recessive trait will SHOW DOMINANCE and it will be of the recessive phenotype. But i am sure that you understand that does not change the fact that the recessive alleles are still recessive alleles (and not suddenly mutate and become dominant alleles). Dominant and recessive genes are talked about in terms of genotype, as can be seen on the website i provided.Quote:
Dominant - This is an allele that is always expressed if present. Example: Smooth peas are dominant over wrinkled peas. If either of the two genes in a pea plant that codes for pea shape is smooth, then the peas produced by the plant will be smooth.
Genotype - This is the genetic code of the organism. Dominant and recessive alleles that code for the same trait are given the same letter. The dominant allele is always capatilized. Example: S = smooth peas, s = wrinkled peas. Using the same example, a pea plant can have one of three genotypes for pea shape. SS, Ss, ss
If the person who wrote your definition wanted to claim dominance was related to phenotype, they would have said phenotype instead of phenotypic effect. So your argument based on the assumption phenotypic effect = phenotype cannot be supported and thus is ignored.
Your argument (about passing the sex-linked trait) was correct, but you never made it clear you thought it was a sex linked trait. The argument of everyone else was correct as well because they assumed it wasnt sex linked. Another area of misunderstanding was your use of dominance to describe phenotype (which is not incorrect),but dominance is generally used to describe alleles (in genotypes). So everyone understands everything and all is well.
HOPEFULLY THIS CLEARS UP MATTERS SO PPL WONT BE FAILING TEH SUPAR HARD AP BIO EXAMS THSI WEEK!!!11
KTHXBYE[img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]
OMG...God be with you people on test day. If you read the website then you would understand that phenotype is simply the characteristics expressed by the allele (genotype). Genotype and phenotype go hand in hand. Where do you think the term phenotypic is derived from? LOL...Look up phenotypic and phenotype and tell me there's a difference.
I hope you guys aren't planning to work in the medical field. Either you guys are just plain bad students or your instructors aren't explaining things properly.
Believe what you will. I aced Anatomy Physiology and Microbiology years ago. It's not hard it's just freaking memorization. (except for labs)
**READ THIS ENTIRE THING AND NOT JUST THE TOPIC SENTENCE**
yeah broshiggie.. you got it. Hiten... just because a certain trait shows does not mean its dominant. IT IS NOT THE PHENOTYPE THAT DETERMINES DOMINANCE, BUT IT IS THE GENOTYPE. So now what youre saying is this: A guy has blue eyes and, by your ideas, youre saying that the blue gene is dominant. However, we know that blue eyes is not a dominant trait. So, how can that guy have blue eyes if it is not a dominant trait? how is he SHOWING blue eyes if it isnt dominant? Cuz he has TWO RECESSIVE blue eye genes and no other gene is there to dominate, or be dominant, over it. Youre just looking up definitions, but genetics is a concept. It cant be simply explained by a definition, but it must be understood. I tried to explain it to you as clearly as possible, and youre still oblivious. So im not gonna try anymore if you dont get it this time. Sex-linkage is a different story and even if it is sex linked, there is still no chance of Sharingan to appear IF the sharingan is recessive. (ill explain this later, you can just pm me if you want a lesson).
And codominance would work..., but even if its codominant, there would only be 3 types: having pure sharingan (x1x1) , having medium amounts (x1x2), or having no sharingan at all (x2x2). However, many different intensities of Sharingan ability would work only if there were multiple alleles that it lied on (for example: the intensity of the color of human skin are on different alleles, from lightest pigment allele to darkest pigment allele).
x1=sharingan ability
x2=no sharingan ability
there is no dominance because both genes are unable to dominate over the other and there is a codominance.
ok. so... i won. alright, that's all i wanted to know. as long as we got that clear.
In my first post I stated that the Sharingan allele is recessive. I was merely pointing out that it was dominant in Sasuke. I also stated that it was a sex linked trait, thus the Y's.Quote:
Originally posted by: broshiggie
Ok reareading your first post i think i know what the issue is, you are thinking that it is a sex linked trait (which would explain using x's and y's).
If that is the case, then yes, you have been correct this whole time, but you NEVER mentioned once that you believed it was sex linked.
My punnet square does not use sex linked traits, so it is not wrong (no x's and y's) going by purely dominant/recessive interactions. And assuming that the allele for the sharingan is a recessive allele on the x chromosome, there still would be no chance of any f1 offspring having the trait.
Basic Biology
In genetics the term DOMINANT usually refers to alleles, not to which phenotype is expressed. You even said it quoted it in your definition, it is a dominant allele or trait. Yes, if we have two reccessive alleles, the recessive trait will SHOW DOMINANCE and it will be of the recessive phenotype. But i am sure that you understand that does not change the fact that the recessive alleles are still recessive alleles (and not suddenly mutate and become dominant alleles). Dominant and recessive genes are talked about in terms of genotype, as can be seen on the website i provided.Quote:
Dominant - This is an allele that is always expressed if present. Example: Smooth peas are dominant over wrinkled peas. If either of the two genes in a pea plant that codes for pea shape is smooth, then the peas produced by the plant will be smooth.
Genotype - This is the genetic code of the organism. Dominant and recessive alleles that code for the same trait are given the same letter. The dominant allele is always capatilized. Example: S = smooth peas, s = wrinkled peas. Using the same example, a pea plant can have one of three genotypes for pea shape. SS, Ss, ss
HOPEFULLY THIS CLEARS UP MATTERS SO PPL WONT BE FAILING TEH SUPAR HARD AP BIO EXAMS THSI WEEK!!!11
KTHXBYE[img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]
NEWAYs, I'm just glad that broshiggie understands. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] Like I stated earlier, I remembered this from the scarring (AP and Microbiology) a couple of years ago. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] Yeah, you're right it's called punnet square.
Pointer for originalkrm, phenotype corresponds to its dominant genotype. That's why I said that they go hand in hand, but you didn't understand that.
I know that the genotype determins dominance. I was trying to get you to understand that. Yes, the sharingan allele is recessive, but in Sasuke it is dominant, because his sharingan genotype (alleles) are dominant. Thus the phenotype shows, which is sharingan, the red eyes with comma like pupils. Whichever genotype is dominant the corresponding phenotype shows. I didn't look up any of this crap. I just remembered it.
I'm going to try and remembr all this by heart.
If my bio test quizez on this. I'll use the Sharingan from Naruto as an example. I bet my teacher will be so impressed to give me a 'A'.
I doubt Kishimoto put any genetics research behind the logic of bloodlines [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
okay.. if you know that the sharingan is recessive then how are you possibly thinking that there is a 25% chance of a baby? If the gene is recessive, then Sasuke has to have ss (non-sex linked) , or sY (sex-linked) because otherwise the dominant gene (having no sharingan) will dominate over the recessive sharingan gene. (And yes, when you are ss, the s is considered dominant only because it is dominant compared to the other gene, but when compared to the dominant gene (having no sharingan), it is recessive) And he has to have kids with a non-uchiha girl (cuz the clan was wiped out) and since having no sharingan is dominant and she has no sharingan gene at all, she has to be SS ( first S coming from having no sharingan and she cant be a carrier cuz she has no uchiha blood ). So when they have kids, it can only be: Ss, Ss, Ss, Ss -having NO sharingan. And when its sex linked it can still only be : SY x 2(no sharingan male), Ss x 2(no sharingan female). So you got the definitions down, but whenever you put it into actual genotypes, it wont work.
Oh my...
I never ever post because I'm so busy with school, but as a pre-med student this discussion is really irritating me. I'm not even going to bother explaining genetics with you guys, though a think a few of you have done a pretty good job of explaining the basics (others, though, are somewhat misguided).
I just wanted to point out a fallacy of one of your arguments. We don't know if the sharingan is a recessive trait. Just because it shows up in a minority of the Uchiha family doesn't make it reccessive. As an example: in my extended family, only a few people have brown eyes. The majority has blue eyes. Does that make brown eyes a recessive trait? No. It just means that, in this case, the recessive trait has proliferated itself enough to be found in the majority. This actually happens in a lot of families.
Similarly, in the Uchiha clan, only a few people have the sharingan. Does that make the sharingan a recessive trait? Not necessarily, although it is more likely. So you can't assume the sharingan is recessive or dominant.
Also, genes are actually a lot more complicated than just dominant or recessive, and it is scientifically possible for two people bearing two recessive genes each to have a child that expresses the dominant trait, and vice versa. I'm not even going to began to get into this, though, since it would just take way too long.
Also, just out of my own personal curiousity, does any one know where in the manga does it say that only a few Uchihas have the sharingan? I must have missed it and would like to read it over, in case I also missed anything else.
Leave the genetics discussions for school, like Memnoch said, I doubt Kishimoto was thinking about it so in depth. It's an anime, not a biology lab.
fair enough. you sound pretty credible and confident about what you're talking about [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img].Quote:
Originally posted by: kappamaki
Oh my...
I never ever post because I'm so busy with school, but as a pre-med student this discussion is really irritating me. I'm not even going to bother explaining genetics with you guys, though a think a few of you have done a pretty good job of explaining the basics (others, though, are somewhat misguided).
I just wanted to point out a fallacy of one of your arguments. We don't know if the sharingan is a recessive trait. Just because it shows up in a minority of the Uchiha family doesn't make it reccessive. As an example: in my extended family, only a few people have brown eyes. The majority has blue eyes. Does that make brown eyes a recessive trait? No. It just means that, in this case, the recessive trait has proliferated itself enough to be found in the majority. This actually happens in a lot of families.
Similarly, in the Uchiha clan, only a few people have the sharingan. Does that make the sharingan a recessive trait? Not necessarily, although it is more likely. So you can't assume the sharingan is recessive or dominant.
Also, genes are actually a lot more complicated than just dominant or recessive, and it is scientifically possible for two people bearing two recessive genes each to have a child that expresses the dominant trait, and vice versa. I'm not even going to began to get into this, though, since it would just take way too long.
Also, just out of my own personal curiousity, does any one know where in the manga does it say that only a few Uchihas have the sharingan? I must have missed it and would like to read it over, in case I also missed anything else.
anyway, sasuke says that when kakashi shows sharingan for the first time (when zabuza and sasuke go off about sharingan and its abilities).
um if you read my posts i already said that we dont know if the sharingan is recessive. I said pretty much what you said. And also, i didnt really know about the the super complications of genetics yet. Also, i dont know when it says that is only appears in few either.Quote:
Originally posted by: kappamaki
I just wanted to point out a fallacy of one of your arguments. We don't know if the sharingan is a recessive trait. Just because it shows up in a minority of the Uchiha family doesn't make it reccessive. As an example: in my extended family, only a few people have brown eyes. The majority has blue eyes. Does that make brown eyes a recessive trait? No. It just means that, in this case, the recessive trait has proliferated itself enough to be found in the majority. This actually happens in a lot of families.
Similarly, in the Uchiha clan, only a few people have the sharingan. Does that make the sharingan a recessive trait? Not necessarily, although it is more likely. So you can't assume the sharingan is recessive or dominant.
Orochimaru will transfer his mind to sasuke, then use sasuke's body to create the new uchiha clan, and when sasuke's body get old or damaged, he'll just murder sasuke's genetic children by transfering his soul to them.
It's going to be a long time before resurrecting the clan comes up, if it even comes up at all. CapsuleCorpJX, was that supposed to be funny, or are you serious?
If Hinata and Sasuke mated..wouldn't their genes(for their eyes) cancel each other out, therefore the kid would have normal eyes(or perhaps, messed-up eyes) only?? (they are technically related to each other you know)
Ack, I can't really remember biology right now anyways. Night people.
HUh???/ Technically related to each other?? I know the hokage talks about everybody being family. But not in as a real family sense. Just good friends till they look after each other family.Quote:
Originally posted by: XwingRob
If Hinata and Sasuke mated..wouldn't their genes(for their eyes) cancel each other out, therefore the kid would have normal eyes(or perhaps, messed-up eyes) only?? (they are technically related to each other you know)
Ack, I can't really remember biology right now anyways. Night people.
The Shanrigan eye is said to be a descendant out of the Byakugan bloodline...so that would mean they are related.
Oh. You got me there. 'Distantly related'. But then wouldn't it enhance their abilities?
I'm trying to remember bio, that dwarfism, if 2 dwarfs marry, their children
1/4 - Die
2/4 - Dwarfism
1/4 - Normal
Aargh I'm bad at Bio! don't blame me! Dumb teacher!! She used to bully me! I hate Bio!
They're probably so far removed that it doesn't really matter...but imagine the power of Byakugan and Sharingan together. No way to avoid eye contact when you can see all around.
Still, I believe him and Sakura are kind of destined...if it's gotta be any of the girls it will be Sakura. She has shown affection for him, and when he finally kills Itachi (who knows if that will happen), maybe he'll mellow down and actually see this
then she will have a love affair with naruto an the show would change name to
naruto 90210 ... HAHA
Umm....The argument about recessive vs. dominant is intersting, but I have a different idea. Have you heard of variable penetrance? That means that you have the genetic info needed to express some trait but whether or not you actually do so depends on what other genes you may have and what you encounter in your environment. It's like inheriting a tendancy or a possibility.
A good example of this is schizophrenia. Children of schizophenics have a good chance of developing schizophrenia, but it doesn't obey the 50% rule as for other dominant traits. These kids can go through life perfectly fine without any detectable problems, or, if they are in some kind of very stressful situation (college, problems at work) they can start hallucinating and thinking space aliens are after them. The thing is, their inherited tendancy is totally invisible until something in their environment brings it out. Alcoholism is another example.
I think this is a pretty good analogy because although Sasuke had the genetic data necessary to use the sharingan he isn't able to do so until he has the proper training and the right environmental stimuli (the fight with Haku).
then if the girl got a ressesive (x) in her dna code and that mixes up with one of the sharingan genes the kid will have sharingan eyes. or am i totally wrong?Quote:
Originally posted by: Mut@t@
let's say:
X = no sharingan (dominant)
x = sharingan (recessive)
sasuke = xx
random non-uchiha female = XX
---------------------------------------
a child born with sharingan must have xx and can't be xX or Xx since capital X is dominant.
if sasuke (xx) and random non-uchiha (XX) were to have a child, the posibilities are: xX, Xx, xX, and Xx. therefore, sasuke can't have a child born with sharingan with a random non-uchiha female.
sasuke MUST be recessive since he said that only a few select members are born with sharingan. most people have at least one of the dominant (X) genes in their blood, and only a few have both recessive genes (xx). that's why only a small number of them have sharingan.
and even if sasuke were to have a baby with sharingan, the kid would have to be a full uchiha to be able to use mangekyou sharingan. which is why the sharingan is so deadly.
i don't know, i might be missing something.
Hahaha! You guys are all classic. Recessive, Dominant, variable penetrance... Lol, you think Kishimoto's really gonna go that deep into genetics? How many animes and mangas do you know go deeply into the inner workings of actual human bodies? At the very best animes (Blue Gender for example) just mention genetics cause its a "buzz" word and makes people go "Cool!!! Man, that is so scientificy!"
Maybe Kishimoto minored in Genetics during his college years (i'll admit i don't know), but all if you're a pre-med, you're smart enough to know that this manga also targets a younger audience that doesn't give a crap about this stuff!
well according what i'm saying, if the female has one recessive trait (Xx) and she has a child with sasuke (assuming he is xx), then the kid can be born with sharingan (xx). but then again, someone else proved that something totally different can happen so we were all correct in all sense, and somewhat off.Quote:
Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
then if the girl got a ressesive (x) in her dna code and that mixes up with one of the sharingan genes the kid will have sharingan eyes. or am i totally wrong?
I personally don't think Sasuke would fall for any of the girls we've met so far. All the ones he's known for a while and grown up with are too clingy and full of idol worship. While he would like the constant attention, he'd tire of it. I think the first girl to challenge him (with a reason BESIDES the fact he's an Uchiha) and either tie or beat him would earn his respect. I think he needs someone to argue with him, otherwise he'd get bored.
With the genetics discussion, it makes me laugh. I personally think the Uchiha trait would have to be recessive, otherwise it would be highly spread around. Perhaps it's a double recessive trait? The whole of Konoha could be carriers for one of the two traits. On the otherhand, the theory of codominance or incomplete dominance would be funny. People walking around with three comma-ish shapes or just red eyes would be weird to see! But again, I must agree with the theory that "it's just an anime".
i think sasuke will fall for sakura. there have been hints in the anime/manga that he cares about her (just not like that) and that she is really important to him, but at the moment i think she is way too weak. he's gone now so hopefully she'll realize if she was stronger she could've chased after him or something. i'm thinking she'll start seriously training with someone very soon and she'll mature into a strong ninja. there have been moments where she's shown (ie protecting sasuke and naruto while they were knocked out) and she does have a great deal of control and knowledge and she even has some guts when it matters (ie getting in front of gaara to protect sasuke). she just hasn't properly trained. i think when sasuke gets back (i'm hopeing he does end up returning) she will have gotten a lot stronger and she will still love him but she won't be so clingy and then he'll end up falling for her.
hmm okay.Quote:
Originally posted by: Mut@t@
well according what i'm saying, if the female has one recessive trait (Xx) and she has a child with sasuke (assuming he is xx), then the kid can be born with sharingan (xx). but then again, someone else proved that something totally different can happen so we were all correct in all sense, and somewhat off.Quote:
Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
then if the girl got a ressesive (x) in her dna code and that mixes up with one of the sharingan genes the kid will have sharingan eyes. or am i totally wrong?
or.. the author of naruto does not care about genes and writes whatever kinda like how ninjas fly around ignoring air resistance =P
NoKKiE mocks Kishimoto's intelligence.
Just joking. Your right, Kishimoto follows the laws of Anime. Guys looking at hot chicks would nosebleed. What a ridiculous notion.
Okay I don't know any biology(and don't want to know...) but maybe I can clear somethings up?
Dominant & Recessive can be looked upon as individual cases and group cases.
I have blue eyes. So I can say that my Blue Eye gene is Dominant.
Everyone else in my family(except my baby brother) has brown eyes. So I can say that in my family the Brown Eye gene is Dominant.
What I'm trying to get at here... is that even if the majority has a certain dominant gene.. that doesn't mean that an idividual can't have a different dominant gene.
Thus, even if Sasuke bangs a chick and gets a baby. And that baby doesn't have the sharingam... The baby's baby might.
Maybe its the result of a dominant gene!Quote:
Originally posted by: Stoopider
Guys looking at hot chicks would nosebleed.
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
I've heard somewhere that Uchiha's are supposed to have super crazy hard bodies (example being Sasuke becoming as fast as Lee in a month) Is that a skill all Uchiha's have or just the Sharingan carriers?
Super crazy hard bodies?? Don't think so. It's just that Sasuke is extremely gifted. Gifted people are supposed to jump from A to C without needing to go to B, kinda thing. Lucky bastard.
no, i'm quite sure that the entire Uchiha clan has a kickass body...
reasonning?:
The sharingan is very rare (not rare as in 1 of 10, but as in 1 of a decade or generation), yet the entire clan is feared, even without the eye.
More than that, in the Zabuza bridge fight, Kakashi tells Zabuza that Sasuke is from the Uchiha clan, and then Zabuza says "so that's how he was able to become so powerful...'
it's just like how kimimaru's clan has perfect bodies, so does the Uchiha clan, they are born with a body suited to fighting...
First of all, NO-ONE should be applauding hiten mitsurugi's "mad biology skills." He is 100% wrong when he says different genes are dominant in different people. Just because a trait is expressed in someone that does not mean that it is dominant. That is just absurd. If you want to applaud someone, applaud originalkrn. He does an excellent job explaining trait dominance (quoted below)
"Just because the Sharingan is shown OVER not having the sharingan does not mean its dominant. A dominant trait is a trait that blocks off the other recessive gene, meaning the phenotype for the dominant gene is expressed. Having sharingan/not having sharingan = same as having brown hair vs blonde hair (because they are both on the same allele and share the same loci). For example, albinism is recessive. And coincidently, the eyes of an albino are red. And just because the albino's eyes are shown red does not mean that the red is shown OVER regular eyes . But for the red eye to show (or more correctly to be not dominated by the dominant gene), the albino would need two recessive genes. Now let me quote you "Because the Sharingan allele is expressed over regular eyes, the sharingan allele is dominant". That is proven to be entirely NOT true. And another quote "Just because the majority of the Uchiha clan doesn't have the sharingan, that doesn't make the sharingan recessive for everyone in the population. You have to understand this basic principle. It's on an individual basis." Hey, if the sharingan is recessive for anyone, then its recessive for everyone cuz its the same gene."
For sasuke to reserect his clan, I think he needs to go after all (or at least a few of) the girls that have shown interest. Sakura, Ino, Tenten, Temari, and all the girls from the academy that had a crush on him. He can't make a clan with just one girl.
sasuke is never gonna revive his clan through reprodution because hes gay
so would you call that a "gay pride" avatar you have there?
Lol *swish* he got you there The Next Hokage [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Thank you Superman! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Actually you're confusing phenotype and genotype. phenotype is what's expressed externally, and genotype is the genetic makeup. A trait is dominant if in when it's allele is expressed perferentally like brown eyes vs blue eyes, and recessive if it's not. For instance brown is a dominant gene because if you've got an allele for brown eyes, and one for blue eyes, your eyes are brown.Quote:
Originally posted by: hiten mitsurugi
Let me explain agan DazzzQuote:
Originally posted by: Mut@t@
let's say:
X = no sharingan (dominant)
x = sharingan (recessive)
sasuke = xx
random non-uchiha female = XX
---------------------------------------
a child born with sharingan must have xx and can't be xX or Xx since capital X is dominant.
if sasuke (xx) and random non-uchiha (XX) were to have a child, the posibilities are: xX, Xx, xX, and Xx. therefore, sasuke can't have a child born with sharingan with a random non-uchiha female.
sasuke MUST be recessive since he said that only a few select members are born with sharingan. most people have at least one of the dominant (X) genes in their blood, and only a few have both recessive genes (xx). that's why only a small number of them have sharingan.
and even if sasuke were to have a baby with sharingan, the kid would have to be a full uchiha to be able to use mangekyou sharingan. which is why the sharingan is so deadly.
i don't know, i might be missing something.
The gene is considered recessive if it is present in the person but isn't expressed. The gene is dominant when it is expressed.
Yes the gene is recessive for the majority of the Uchihas, because even though they carry the sharingan gene, they don't have it.
Sasuke's sharingan gene is dominant. Why? Because he has the sharingan.
So to clear up your confusion:
Dominant doesn't mean for the majority of a population. It just means that it is expressed for that certain individual.
Recessive doesn't mean for the majority of the population as you suggested; it just means that the gene isn't expressed for that particular individual.
It's on an individual basis.
Therefore having the sharingan would mean that the sharingan trait is dominant.
Not having the sharingan trait would mean that the sharingan trait is recessive.
As for Sasuke and the sharingan. none of his children will have the sharingan if the sharingan is recessive. however his grandchildren will if his children inbred. (nasty, but that's the only way to get the sharingan in 2 generations)
however, there are also cases of incomplete dominance as in the case of the snap dragon flower. there's a red allele and a white allele. if the two of them are mixed together, then you get a pink snap dragon flower instead of either a red or a whilte. this is also possible in the case of the sharingan. Itachi and Sasuke are the most powerful of the uchiha clan because they have 2 copies of teh sharingan gene instead of one, and people with one copy are less powerful.
ATTACK OF THE BIODORKS!!!! lol i kid i kid [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
lol good one.Quote:
Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
so would you call that a "gay pride" avatar you have there?