naruto and his kyuubi

People say Naruto is nothing because he relies on Kyuubi to make him powerful. However, this can be said for nearly every other "powerful" character in the anime. Taking away his Kyuubi is like taking away Sasuke's Sharingan, Neji's Byakugan, Shino's bugs, and Gaara's sand. How have all these top genins NOT relied on these powers to make them powerful? And just as Sasuke learns to control his sharingan, Naruto learns to control his kyuubi. So you cant say Naruto is weak and only relies on his Kyuubi cause then all other top genins would be considered weak.

we know that man.

Then why do people call Naruto worthless ? Its stupid

I'm getting major deja-a-vu from this thread.
Yes, its stupid. When people criticize Naruto, they should criticize his weak taijustu, and some of his other weak skills, but not because of him controlling Kyuubi. When people are doing that, they are just fanboys of other characters in the show.
And, I'm sure Naruto is going to improve in all areas of Ninja stuff.

You forgot Rock lee's Gates. it isnt an advanced blood limit but nether is the demon fox or gaara's sand

What about the Naruto Nisen Rendan? Thats a pretty good taijutsu.

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Originally posted by: Kumiriko
You forgot Rock lee's Gates. it isnt an advanced blood limit but nether is the demon fox or gaara's sand

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The gates is Rock Lee's power. It's nothing but training to go past YOUR OWN limits.

Rock Lee is the only one with true strength. Thats why hes so cool. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

how so? did neji not work hard to learn kaiten and the 64 hands of hakke on his own? did sasuke not have to put himself in a near death situation to obtain his sharingan for the first time? if anything, i think the strength lee has is the least cool, because its something that ANY ninja can do if they just train it alot for about a year

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
how so? did neji not work hard to learn kaiten and the 64 hands of hakke on his own? did sasuke not have to put himself in a near death situation to obtain his sharingan for the first time? if anything, i think the strength lee has is the least cool, because its something that ANY ninja can do if they just train it alot for about a year

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I don't think Sasuke's being put in a life threatening situation is hard work, it's in fact bad. Neji is. And about that any ninja can do what he does in a year is jsut plain wrong! Others in the Gai's team wasn't able to learn the gates, well at least do the lotus move. Kakashi was freaking surprised when Lee opened the 5th gate, enough to call him a genius. Saying any ninja can do what he did is stupid and disrpoves what has been said about everything regarding Lee.

Umm.. Didnt Gai say at a moment that he was like Lee when he was young?!?...

So there is another with true strength...

I believe that Kakashi said that Lee reminded him of Gai as a kid.

Everybody has some advantage that they have and that's cool but Gaara's, Naruto's, and Sasuke's are on a higher level than everyone else's

Their powers come from someone else

Gaara has Shukaku, Naruto has Kyubi and Sasuke has his seal

Neither Neji nor Lee call on anyone else's strength but their own.

However everyone but Neji and Gara are still great without their advantage

Naruto without Kyubi is still damn powerful
Sasuke without Sharingan and seal was number one rookie
Lee without gates is still one ill mofo

But Neji without Byakugan is about as useful as Hinate was in her fight against him.
And we haven't seen Gaara do much of anything without his sand

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Originally posted by: Hyuga Koji
Everybody has some advantage that they have and that's cool but Gaara's, Naruto's, and Sasuke's are on a higher level than everyone else's

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True, Sasuke is in a higher level of annoyance, arrogancy and lack of character, even higher than Neji.
Sasuke was about to give up the scroll to Orochi, and the only thing that stopped him was Naruto stating a few facts to him: That he was stupid and a coward.
His brother can kick his ass any time, and did so, it would be an educated guess to say that even a younger Itachi could kick Sasuke's ass without breaking a sweat.
He feels weak, and would kill Naruto just for the sake of feeling more powerful. I mean...that's just despicable.
In any case, he knows that he's weak, but instead of developing his sharingan he takes a short cut straight to Orochimaru. He has none other than Kakashi to train him, on a 24/7 basis, considering that he wouldn't train Naruto, and let that asshole Ebishu do the dirty work.
Yet, that is not good enough for that little bastard. Judging by Neji, who learn the Kaiten by himself, if Sasuke was actually worth anything, he'd learn the sharingan tricks by himself. Copying jutsus is pretty much like knowing to write your name compared with being able to write James Joyce's Ullysses.
He's just a way overrated primadonna.
And Chouji, despised by everybody, is the only one with some brains there. He knows that compared to Sasuke and Neji, Shika is way more of a genius than putting them two together.

And here is my question: Sasuke threw away his Konoha forehead protector. Will he ever be able to wear it again?

Whoever said Naruto is worthless is wrong. Ok?

by the way HOKAGE OWNS all.

Rock Lee worked EXTREMELY hard and had fought with his will to open the gates. Unlike Sasuke , where he acquired the ability to use his sharingan in a matter of a day. It didn't really take much for him to achieve it. I dont know how much Neji worked, but im pretty sure its not as much as Lee

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Originally posted by: Haku no Fuyu
What about the Naruto Nisen Rendan? Thats a pretty good taijutsu.

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It's just two thousand times a bad one. More fitting for a boxer than a ninja.

People who say Naruto is strong, because of his Kyuubi, are a bunch of Kyuubi nut-huggers. Not Naruto fans. However, I think Naruto is much more interesting without the entire "secret power" gimmick going for him. I'd rather see him use his whits, spirit, and smarts to defeat an enemy, as opposed to out-muscle in chakra because of the Kyuubi chakra.

I also cannot fucking stand people who deify Naruto, BECAUSE of the Kyuubi chakra. People seem to elevate it to the point, where it's unbeatable. A lot of the posters here need to realze, Kyuubi chakra, and Kyuubi himself are two totally different things. Saying "Naruto is the best because he has Kyuubi!" is a load of crap.

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Originally posted by: originalkrn
Then why do people call Naruto worthless ? Its stupid

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Who said IT?? Lets beat him up.. YEah!!

*Rally's a mob of the Konoha Ninja Lovers carrying big ninja friggin weapons!!*

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Originally posted by: Neji-Aniki-sama

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Originally posted by: Hyuga Koji
Everybody has some advantage that they have and that's cool but Gaara's, Naruto's, and Sasuke's are on a higher level than everyone else's

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True, Sasuke is in a higher level of annoyance, arrogancy and lack of character, even higher than Neji.
Sasuke was about to give up the scroll to Orochi, and the only thing that stopped him was Naruto stating a few facts to him: That he was stupid and a coward.
His brother can kick his ass any time, and did so, it would be an educated guess to say that even a younger Itachi could kick Sasuke's ass without breaking a sweat.
He feels weak, and would kill Naruto just for the sake of feeling more powerful. I mean...that's just despicable.
In any case, he knows that he's weak, but instead of developing his sharingan he takes a short cut straight to Orochimaru. He has none other than Kakashi to train him, on a 24/7 basis, considering that he wouldn't train Naruto, and let that asshole Ebishu do the dirty work.
Yet, that is not good enough for that little bastard. Judging by Neji, who learn the Kaiten by himself, if Sasuke was actually worth anything, he'd learn the sharingan tricks by himself. Copying jutsus is pretty much like knowing to write your name compared with being able to write James Joyce's Ullysses.
He's just a way overrated primadonna.
And Chouji, despised by everybody, is the only one with some brains there. He knows that compared to Sasuke and Neji, Shika is way more of a genius than putting them two together.

And here is my question: Sasuke threw away his Konoha forehead protector. Will he ever be able to wear it again?

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Sasuke wasn't about to fight a hopeless fight that would result in death for a scroll in his mind his options were a. give up the scroll and possibly live or b. fight and die.

In his fight against Naruto he could have easily used his new fast chidori and speared Naruto outright if that was his goal, he whipped out his killing jutsu after Naruto whipped out his. Both Jiraiya and Kakashi were shocked that Naruto would use that jutsu against a teammate. Sasuke wanted to kick his ass not the right decision but understandable considering what went down.

Kakashi trained him against Gaara because he wouldn't be able to do well with Naruto he doesn't truly understand either of them but he is closer to Sasuke in similarity.

Besides Neji would kick Naruto's ass and end it there he had more than enough reason to mess up Hinata worse than he did but he showed mercy and he has no beef with Naruto.

Gaara would have killed and or maimed Sasuke i think it's obvious who needed more help.

Kakashi isn't going to train Sasuke to commit murder so he's not going to get the power to fulfill his ambition with Kakashi he wanted power and you could have seen his departure coming more than 100 chapters before it happened.

I would like it better for Sasuke to be on his own and not come back to the leaf for a long time but i see him coming back eventually.

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Originally posted by: SkyDragon

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
how so? did neji not work hard to learn kaiten and the 64 hands of hakke on his own? did sasuke not have to put himself in a near death situation to obtain his sharingan for the first time? if anything, i think the strength lee has is the least cool, because its something that ANY ninja can do if they just train it alot for about a year

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I don't think Sasuke's being put in a life threatening situation is hard work, it's in fact bad. Neji is. And about that any ninja can do what he does in a year is jsut plain wrong! Others in the Gai's team wasn't able to learn the gates, well at least do the lotus move. Kakashi was freaking surprised when Lee opened the 5th gate, enough to call him a genius. Saying any ninja can do what he did is stupid and disrpoves what has been said about everything regarding Lee.

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um no......its not......
the point of lee being a hard worker is because that is what made him into something better than, say, those useless samurai that gatou had

only lee could do the lotus move BECAUSE he kept training in taijutsu....im not sure how hard unlocking gates is, but apparently it doesnt require any bloodline, ninjutsu, or genjutsu ability.....
also, to say that any ninja can do what he did does NOT disprove what has been said, because the difference between lee and any other ninja is that lee works harder than any other ninja, not that lee was born with any talents that others don't have (hence why he's not a genius type)

if it was impossible for anybody else to gain the abilities that he has, then THAT would be stupid and disprove what has been said about everything regarding lee

wow u are so right

Lee is a genius of hard work, even Neiji wasn't able to learn how to do the Initial Lotus, because he does not work as hard as Lee. It is possible for others to learn how to open gates like Lee, but only if they put in the same amount of effort as him.

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Originally posted by: Hotsuma
People who say Naruto is strong, because of his Kyuubi, are a bunch of Kyuubi nut-huggers. Not Naruto fans. However, I think Naruto is much more interesting without the entire "secret power" gimmick going for him. I'd rather see him use his whits, spirit, and smarts to defeat an enemy, as opposed to out-muscle in chakra because of the Kyuubi chakra.

I also cannot fucking stand people who deify Naruto, BECAUSE of the Kyuubi chakra. People seem to elevate it to the point, where it's unbeatable. A lot of the posters here need to realze, Kyuubi chakra, and Kyuubi himself are two totally different things. Saying "Naruto is the best because he has Kyuubi!" is a load of crap.

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Absolutely not, Kyuubi Naruto is so interesting, not when he politely asks for his demon for power, but when he is consumed absolutely by rage, you can feel the raw emotion.

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Originally posted by: CapsuleCorpJX

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Originally posted by: Hotsuma
People who say Naruto is strong, because of his Kyuubi, are a bunch of Kyuubi nut-huggers. Not Naruto fans. However, I think Naruto is much more interesting without the entire "secret power" gimmick going for him. I'd rather see him use his whits, spirit, and smarts to defeat an enemy, as opposed to out-muscle in chakra because of the Kyuubi chakra.

I also cannot fucking stand people who deify Naruto, BECAUSE of the Kyuubi chakra. People seem to elevate it to the point, where it's unbeatable. A lot of the posters here need to realze, Kyuubi chakra, and Kyuubi himself are two totally different things. Saying "Naruto is the best because he has Kyuubi!" is a load of crap.

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Absolutely not, Kyuubi Naruto is so interesting, not when he politely asks for his demon for power, but when he is consumed absolutely by rage, you can feel the raw emotion.

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And you also feel "Wow, the fight just got more boring." I admit, I like watching Naruto get all pissy on anybody with Kyuubi, but at the same time, I feel it's completely unoriginal for him to be able to tap into a hidden power, to win a fight instead of using whits. I like Naruto's style. Not his strength.

Naruto improvising Kagebunshins = awesome
Naruto turning SSJ w/Kyuubi = boring shit.

I didn't think it was boring when Naruto first went phsyco, busted Haku's mirrors and punched him so hard his mask fell off.

when i'm reading the manga, as soon as naruto goes kyubi or does kage bunshin, i push the delete button.

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Originally posted by: CapsuleCorpJX
I didn't think it was boring when Naruto first went phsyco, busted Haku's mirrors and punched him so hard his mask fell off.

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Naruto turning berserk = The HULK. I love Naruto's ability to adapt to his opponents movements, get a little roughed up, and finally make an amazing comeback, which nobody ever drempt was coming. That's his character. Not always win through some lame gimmick.

Naruto constantly tapping into Kyubi power does get boring after a while. The next time he asks for more chakra, Kyubi should tell Naruto to go fuck himself.

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Originally posted by: Hotsuma
People who say Naruto is strong, because of his Kyuubi, are a bunch of Kyuubi nut-huggers. Not Naruto fans. However, I think Naruto is much more interesting without the entire "secret power" gimmick going for him. I'd rather see him use his whits, spirit, and smarts to defeat an enemy, as opposed to out-muscle in chakra because of the Kyuubi chakra.
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I think the kyuubi is not the most important thing in Naruto. But it's there for a reason. Basically, the same reason the Shukaku is inside of Gaara. Like Naruto, most of us have a great deal of energy at our disposition. If we don't learn to use those, they can turn out to be very dangerous to ourselves and to others. We have two people, Naruto and Gaara, with very similar amounts of power, the difference is how each of them uses this power. The kyuubi is here to show us how Naruto tames and discipline this power and how he puts it to good use. For me it's the basic premisse of Naruto. How to deal with a tremedous amount of energy, which has a great potential of becoming dangerous and destructive and instead of letting it run amok, tame it and put it to a productive use.

I like when Naruto he comes up with coole moves with his bunshins like agianst Gaara when he did 1000 pain. He jumped on several clones to get behind Gaara,thats the Naruto i like when he comes with things like that but kyubi Naruto isnt bad either.

I think the more and more power he takes from kyubi..i think the more and more it will consume him..meaning he probably won't be able to control it and go berserk sometimes, i wouldn't know this is my opinion i havent seen or read the manga...

Thats an interesting concept though AkamichiChouji.

Naruto rocks. Naruto = strongest. Just needs some mad skills to go with all that raw strength.

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Originally posted by: Neji-Aniki-sama

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Originally posted by: Hotsuma
People who say Naruto is strong, because of his Kyuubi, are a bunch of Kyuubi nut-huggers. Not Naruto fans. However, I think Naruto is much more interesting without the entire "secret power" gimmick going for him. I'd rather see him use his whits, spirit, and smarts to defeat an enemy, as opposed to out-muscle in chakra because of the Kyuubi chakra.
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I think the kyuubi is not the most important thing in Naruto. But it's there for a reason. Basically, the same reason the Shukaku is inside of Gaara. Like Naruto, most of us have a great deal of energy at our disposition. If we don't learn to use those, they can turn out to be very dangerous to ourselves and to others. We have two people, Naruto and Gaara, with very similar amounts of power, the difference is how each of them uses this power. The kyuubi is here to show us how Naruto tames and discipline this power and how he puts it to good use. For me it's the basic premisse of Naruto. How to deal with a tremedous amount of energy, which has a great potential of becoming dangerous and destructive and instead of letting it run amok, tame it and put it to a productive use.

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The Kyuubi-chakra is there for one reason. That's for him to tap into an extra chakra battery, should his ever run low. That's it. Besides that though, he falls under the category of "main character with an unbeatable super power inside". We've seen this happen before, and quite frankly, the formula sucks

. I watch Naruto's fights, not interested at all, in him outmuscling somebody with his chakra, but for him to have a shining moment, by outwhitting an oponent completely. If anybody actually thinks him getting all angry, or just tapping into it is more fun than him using some strategy, they should just go and watch DBZ.

Once Naruto realizes the importance of his life (which he does now), the Kyuubi chakra has no meaning, other than some gimmick which no longer has it's purpose.

I CAN'T WAIT TIL SASUKE KICKS NARUTO'S KYUBI ASS.

hm i wonder what sasuke will be able to do in his level 2 state. Maybe chidori in each hand..... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

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Originally posted by: Vagabond
hm i wonder what sasuke will be able to do in his level 2 state. Maybe chidori in each hand..... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

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He will be able to run faster. Both from Naruto and Itachi. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

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Originally posted by: Mut@t@
when i'm reading the manga, as soon as naruto goes kyubi or does kage bunshin, i push the delete button.

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well i guess that means you've missed a pretty good amount of the kimimaro fight scenes then, huh?

Not that it really mattered , that fight. It was just more of the same anyways. We could've done without that, really.

yeah but mut@t@'s all about the kimimaro stuff, it seems

There's also one reason that makes me think the kyuubi is important.
I believe the choice of Jiraiya as Naruto's teacher wasn't a random one. Jiraiya is the frog hermit, and teachers Naruto how to summon frogs. If we look at frogs, we can say that, they are maybe the only animals who transform so radically during their life time, they even have to change environment to accomodate their growth.
In the begining, Naruto was only able to summon tadpoles, it took him a life or death experience to learn how to tame the kyuubi power and summon an adult frog.
So, IMO, the frog is quite an appropriate animal to symbolize Naruto's transformation. In the moment he becomes aware of his immense power and find ways to tame is not a child anymore. He is able to deal with his power like an adult would.
So we have two animals to make Naruto's transfomation pretty clear, the frog, who, as a tadpole represents Naruto as a child and as Gama-bunta, representing Naruto an adult , and the Kyuubi, the demon-fos symbolizing the power that Naruto had to tame to become an adult.

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Originally posted by: Neji-Aniki-sama

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Originally posted by: Vagabond
hm i wonder what sasuke will be able to do in his level 2 state. Maybe chidori in each hand..... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

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He will be able to run faster. Both from Naruto and Itachi. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

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ROFL...

I really wonder what would happen to Naruto if somehow Kyubi decided to not give more chakra, or if Kyubi somehow died (I don't know how, starvation perhaps). But I think this could be really cool, it could force Naruto to become much more resourceful in some of those dire situations, or it could just make him think ahead alot more of the time, like Shika.