http://lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx check out the casualties. It's crazy how so much is going on but the news only report 1 or 2 deaths a week.
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http://lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx check out the casualties. It's crazy how so much is going on but the news only report 1 or 2 deaths a week.
Well i think the shocking number is the amount of iraqi civilian casualties. Something like 13,000 dead.
This thread could get very.. very... ugly...
Yeah not everything gets in media, Just a few cases, if everythings was on the news there would be mass-protests all over the world...
It could...but what is being said is true...Quote:
Originally posted by: Lego
This thread could get very.. very... ugly...
I saw a pretty scary documentary off suprnova which basically showed just how much the American (with my country at their side) government lied and selectively using information to make the situation sound a hell of a lot worse...the documentary featured loads of people who used to work in the US government and former weapons inspectors etc...its worth watching (just under an hour long)...
The media don't seem to do enough...but then thats no surprise... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
And worst of all the damn iraqies defiled the dead american soldiers, like hitting them with a stick and record it, after they were dead.
damn americans lol
Oh im not argueing if its true or not, i think its great theres other media sources, im just saying all it takes is one person like dbz to go damn americans, which me living in the US, most are.Quote:
It could...but what is being said is true...
Someone takes exception to that phrase, fires back blah blah blah, flame war ensues.
i swear...if some stupid ass comes in here bitching about how our soldiers die in wars and war isn't necessary, then i'ma go berserk.
It doesn't really matter to me if the US government lied, the real point of this war is to get rid of Saddam BEFORE he became a much more SERIOUS threat. 'Freedom isn't free.'
Alright im sorry. I shouldn't have said that.
Actually im from the US...
Told ya... I find its best to leave the political issues to the people skilled in that area. If you ask someones opinion on a message board, your likely to get someone who comes in behind them refuteing them.
Along with what seems to be a heavy anti-war,anti-us feeling in other countries, its not that hard to predict that you'll get some flames.
Ive always found it funny tough how people sitting on their computer,in shorts or boxers, eating a box of ho-ho's , drinking a can of sprite, watching a chick dance around in skimpy clothes on a computer, watching anime are EVEN qualified to flame each other over people, of all countries dieing in a war, regardless of which one it is.
deception was even worse back before media had as much influence as it did now
you guys talk about how the US lies and stuff....but did you know that Saddam used to kill his own people and point fingers at other countries just to gain more support?
people outside of the US like to just sit there and whine about stuff, but its because of Saddam that Iraq is the way it is now, and his influence over the people just decieves them into believing that whatever he says is the right way. Therefore the deaths on their side is because they are fighting for the beliefs that saddam brainwashed into them, the US isnt purposely killing iraqis
and Vagabond, dont try to be condescending as if you actually know whats good for the world.....im sure if a bunch of foreigners start dissing everyone in your country because your government decided to get involved in global affairs, then you'd be acting the same way we would
edit: ok i didnt realize you were actually in america......i guess i wouldve expected that from someone from another country
It's amazing how people react to coverage of casualties these days. This is nothing like WW1, WW2, or even Korea or Vietnam. All death is bad, especially civilian death, but it's not on the same scale that it has traditionally occurred, and that is something to be thankful for.
My personal feelings on the Iraq situation, are that things were horrible before, horrible now, and will be horrible in the future .. the reason? Too many competing political/religious/business/government groups who all seem to hate each other and will kill as many people as they want to wrest control. Saddam's Baathist murderers are a drop in the bucket to the bloody ambition of the fundamentalist Shiites, who overwhelmingly support a hard-line Islamic government. I have nothing against the islamic faith, but it's a proven fact that islamic governments are notorious for oppressing their citizens, often with bloodythirsty vengeance towards ANY questioning of the rulers.
It's just a big fat messy mistake, that is just going to get worse until the US finally decides it's tired of bringing back it's people in body bags and coffins. Some situations are just lose-lose.
It isn't about 'dissing' Americans...it is criticising the American government...and thats a very different thing...I'm anti war (because Iraq posed no threat to the majority of the world and had fuck all to do with 9/11 - the american (and us english who allied with them) government pretty much used 9/11 as an excuse to tie Iraq and Saddam, with the Taliban and Bin Laden (when in fact the two hated each other and were totally against each other)) and my government went into this war supporting the US government (demonstrating IMO that Tony Blair has no spine). "a bunch of foreigners" can diss the UK all they want for all I care because my government don't represent me, and they don't represent the people of the UK, because our so-called left-wing government is just totally up the arse of the American government...Quote:
Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
deception was even worse back before media had as much influence as it did now
you guys talk about how the US lies and stuff....but did you know that Saddam used to kill his own people and point fingers at other countries just to gain more support?
people outside of the US like to just sit there and whine about stuff, but its because of Saddam that Iraq is the way it is now, and his influence over the people just decieves them into believing that whatever he says is the right way. Therefore the deaths on their side is because they are fighting for the beliefs that saddam brainwashed into them, the US isnt purposely killing iraqis
and Vagabond, dont try to be condescending as if you actually know whats good for the world.....im sure if a bunch of foreigners start dissing everyone in your country because your government decided to get involved in global affairs, then you'd be acting the same way we would
edit: ok i didnt realize you were actually in america......i guess i wouldve expected that from someone from another country
The biggest tragedy in recent American history was dispicably manipulated by those in power as an excuse to go to war with Iraq...yes Saddam Hussein should have been sorted out but it isn't for America just go against what the UN say and just invade because they don't like the politics (even if Hussein was totally dispicable towards his own country). Are they just gonna invade everyone whose politics they don't like? Because there are a shitload of countries who also have appalling human rights...are they all going to be invaded? The government mis-represented information as if it was a bullet proof case to go to war...yet a whole load of the information (at least from what I've seen) was flawed and much of it was very open to interpretation...thus going to war (in the first "pre-emptive" war ever as far as I know) was unjustifiable...
Hussein had no interest in any war against the west, he did unspeakable things to his own people, that isn't in question...but the reasons given by the US and the UK about a pre-emptive war weren't in my opinion justifiable...and to the guy who says its amazing how people act tough behind their computer...this isn't acting tough, it is just an opinion...when the non-existant weapons of mass destruction and the mis-interpreted information from years and years ago about the whole '45 minute' thing (by which time any weapons would no longer be usable anyway as the ones in question had a much shorter shelf life), when the weapons of mass destruction weren't proved...THEN they started changing their reasons for going to war...and now Colin Powell admits that the pre-war intelligence could have been flawed! ( Link )
I'm not against Saddam being punished for his crimes, but I find the idea very scary the amount of manipulation that is resulting from 9/11...and I won't even go into the USA Patriot Act!!! I also won't go into how companies are manipulating this situation to make money (including the first Burger King to be in Baghdad)...
Ah well, politics never go well on this board...I don't know why that is...on another forum I go to political arguments aren't necessarily treated with such apprehension...its quite sad that politics can't be discussed because 'it'll turn ugly'... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
hey i know, lets skip to the end result of this thread:
the american government doesnt give a shit about anyone but itself! and if you think otherwise.....
you're a moron!
the point im making though is that ive known people on this forum to target americans in general for the things that our government does...which is totally wrong to do
besides....nobody truly knows if the results of a war is good or not, because the events change entirely as a result....maybe saddam wouldve actually done some drastic things in the near future if he was left alone...maybe not....but if he WAS going to, then nobody will know about that now, and all that will be acknowledged was that the US was just bullying iraq around
yes thank you r3n....a very appropriate label for the melting pot of the world
wups, forgot my sarcasm tags [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
I just think that there has been no hard evidence to suggest that Iraq were able to, were ever planning to, or even would ever be able to attack the west from Iraq...thats what I don't like about it...
Yes you are very right though when you say people who target Americans in general for actions carried out by their government is totally wrong...or any country for that matter (I've also seen Americans and Brits targetting French people because their government opposed the war).
Having an opinion either way is fine, I can see the situation from the pro-war angle, even though I don't agree with it I can still respect it, as everyone is going to have differing opinions but it is when people say something like "if you think something that is open to debate is 'this' then you are a whiny moron" that is ignorant (I'm not aiming this at you AssertnFailure btw...I have just encountered a few people (including my Dad - I've learned not to argue with him though it took me a few years lol [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] ) who do actually say stuff like that.
ps - anyone who saw the first line from my original post - I mis-interpreted the post I'm responding to so I got rid of it...
I really don't have a pro-war or anti-war opinion.
Even if i wanted no war, i can't do didly squat about it. March down a street? Pfft, no one listens.
Even if i was pro war, i couldn't do anything also, watch TV all day for explosion coverage?
I treat it as news, and thats all it is. The TV network news stations need ratings, want you to watch, thats why they have lead ins like "Tonight on the so and so show, is iraq turning into blarghy?"
Then they have a retired war guy, talking about something he would do the exact same thing for.
Even during the day, news agencies want the best coverage.
But thats getting off the point.
I do agree that i HATE people of any country, even mine that generalize. Ive met people online, especially those idiot brazillians last night in the room that kept saying in portugese all americans are stupid etc.
Im sure most would agree with me that we have our idiots(jessica simpson,bill o'rielly, etc) but most of us are pretty smart.
People say all americans are bad/evil/kicked a dog. Good for them. As many of you who know me from spending time in #animeone, or from the short time on the forum, i don't instegate much. Post funny links, give commetary, nothing that would make you go off.
Thats the other thing about the internet, being anonymous. Someone can pop in a pro-war/anti-war chatroom, hell even #animeone and go:
SO AND SO DIE DIE DIE
SO AND SO I HOPE ALL OF YOU DIE FROM SO AND SO
Like that picture arguing over the internet is like running in the special olympics.
I don't give a dam what country your from. You treat me with respect,listen to my opinions,don't down everything i say, ill treat you equally.
Its the people on both sides that want to try to force a opinion on you, or think their opinion is king of the hill, so anyone elses maybe wrong.
Its a sad world we live in these days friends when people can't even look past what country you come from to talk to you.
id have to say im pro war. us the uninted states is doing this to show that we will go after anykind of terrorism and retaliate to any kind of acts of war.
the U.S is doing this to make the world safe from terrorism and if it means getting some tyrants out of the way in the process im all for it.
WORD.Quote:
Originally posted by: sangai sakusei
id have to say im pro war. us the uninted states is doing this to show that we will go after anykind of terrorism and retaliate to any kind of acts of war.
the U.S is doing this to make the world safe from terrorism and if it means getting some tyrants out of the way in the process im all for it.
G.W.B doesnt know what hes doing he did all of this b/c he had to find a way to get people to stop making fun of him for all the stupid things he did
Well, the US isn't dumb. Thats why we are at war with Iraq. If the US was dumb, then we would be at war with N. Korea or Iran, who both have ADMITTED to having Nuclear Weapons programs. But the US isn't dumb, they know not to mess with those guys, even though we would win, but no one wants nuclear war. So we put down the small guys, like Sadaam, who if he got his hands on a weapon of mass destruction theres no doubt in my mind the guy would have enough balls to point it at the US. I know you guys from other countires might not want to hear this but the truth is the US is the only military superpower at this time, and since the US is the ONLY superpower than we can do we whatever we want. I know its not right to say, but thats the truth, and thats why we have countries like Canada, the UK, and Poland suckin up to us, because they arent dumb either. Yes the goverment is lying, and they always have, but its gotten the US this far, so it must work.
i would never generalise about a country of 260million people (roughly?) to say that theyre all greedy bastards etc. but i will generalise about the media and government of america to say they are fucked up. or it could jst be that the media believes the governments lies or it may be dangerous for them to publish anything but those lies. ahwell either way, george bush and his gooneys are gunna burn in hell [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] not that i believe in heaven and hell [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
http://jtownend.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/asshole.jpeg
LOL now thats a fucked up comparison, I dont like George Bush either, but to compare him to Hitler is outrageous. Well it doesnt matter Bush wont be pres. much longer. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
I doubt Bush is the one making all these decisions. And I agree, Bush is not the same as Hitler.
id say the american government is as evil as the nazis were. they sold weapons to the iraqis as allies WHILE all this genocide stuff was happening in iraq, and now they call them their enemies for the single reason which is oil. theyve killed thousands of INNOCENT ppl purely for oil. notice how america hasnt even touched zimbabwe, where the president ordered the killing of hundreds of white farmers. not only this but he frequently arrests or kills opposition parties to his presidential position. ie. a dictator. but does america do anything about this? even though, i would say, it is almost exactly the same situation as iraq. and why doesnt america do anything about this? because its of no benefit to them.
you dont seriously think the american government is hunting so called "terrorists" for the safety of innocent ppl around the world do you? the american government couldnt care less about innocent ppl, why do you think it let 9/11 happen in the first place? so that it had a strong reason to invade the middle east, and why is it doing this? for oil.
the american goverment has no morals. it will order the killing of innocents purely to secure oil reserves. its as evil as evil gets, jst that it uses the media to disguise this fact. the sooner more ppl realise this truth the better.
hey folks we got a democrat. boy that sounds like a conspiracy theory.
the war is not about oil. its just a bonus
we do not invade africa cause we do not have there support, most of the arabic and muselim countrys support our actions. africa the entire country would be pissed if we intervened.
i plan on voting for bush.
and the comparison between hitler and bush much different.
hitler: a racist bastard who believed ethnic cleansing was the only way to become a master race, not only that it was believed he suffered from extreme paronoia, fece's fetishes and a numerous other mental problems.
bush: a cowboy from american that thinks he is doing the right thing by hunting out a very small "dangerous" dangerous group of people, there is a difference between jewish and terrorist's the jewish didn't deserve it.
I think it would be better if they pulled back all troups so the iraqi-people can kill themself, leave them alone, it's their country, they don't have WOMD, so they can't harm other countries....
true by june 30th all us power is supposed to turn the country over to the iraqi authority, hopefully they can handle things there.
i'm not into politics nor do i care about bush or hitler, but comparing hitler to bush is just absolutely retarded. anyone who thinks it's right to make that dumb comparison, should burn their faces off and then just die off.
the terrorists are hiding out over in those countries.....and if i recall the leaders werent willing to do anything about it, so if nobody did anything then we'd all just be sitting around while they go hijack planes and kill civilians anyway. Even without war there'll still be deaths
im really not a big fan of politics anyway, and im not sure if gore wouldve been any better than bush as president either.....meh...blame the electoral college
Wow, hmmm. So, what country are you from? Is your country doing anything to help Zimbabwe? I didnt think so. If you think that the US government in place right now...and NO not EVERY administration is the same and runs the country in the same way, is as bad as the Nazis then you need to check your facts.Quote:
Originally posted by: r3n
id say the american government is as evil as the nazis were. they sold weapons to the iraqis as allies WHILE all this genocide stuff was happening in iraq, and now they call them their enemies for the single reason which is oil. theyve killed thousands of INNOCENT ppl purely for oil. notice how america hasnt even touched zimbabwe, where the president ordered the killing of hundreds of white farmers. not only this but he frequently arrests or kills opposition parties to his presidential position. ie. a dictator. but does america do anything about this? even though, i would say, it is almost exactly the same situation as iraq. and why doesnt america do anything about this? because its of no benefit to them.
you dont seriously think the american government is hunting so called "terrorists" for the safety of innocent ppl around the world do you? the american government couldnt care less about innocent ppl, why do you think it let 9/11 happen in the first place? so that it had a strong reason to invade the middle east, and why is it doing this? for oil.
the american goverment has no morals. it will order the killing of innocents purely to secure oil reserves. its as evil as evil gets, jst that it uses the media to disguise this fact. the sooner more ppl realise this truth the better.
Hitler murdered over 2 million innocent Jews and also killed Poles, Gypsies etc. Look at the American government, who are at WAR with Iraq. There has always been casualties in war, which people need to accept. If you actually believe that ALL the civilians who have been killed were innocent then you need to look at what is going on in Iraq right now, CIVILIANS, followeres of the Shiite cleric, killing American CIVILIANS and soldiers. This war is not about oil, thats a stupid misconception since the US gets almost all of its oil from Venezuela and other South American countries. The US is going to do what it needs to do to help itself. That is human nature, who are you going to help first, yourself or a stranger? By going to war with Iraq we would, ideally, put in place a US backed democratic goverment, which would be another ally in the middle east. Not every country is perfect, and countries will do what it needs to do that will help themselves in the long run.
whoa geez...as evil as the nazis were??.....wow.....
well....everyone's interpretations of good and evil is based on the society they were raised in.....so if you wanna come up with self-centered accusations like that then go ahead.....but i know of a friend of mine who returned home from the army just a few weeks ago from iraq.....his job was to take care of civilian affairs, and luckily was never in a situation where he needed to shoot at someone.......America's not trying to persecute people....just help them....its the moronic iraq nationalists who blindly support a corrupt government that stir things up. Their perception of good and evil is vastly different than what most democratic societies believe in, just as your perception seems to be a bit more distorted than what most people who know what they're talking about is [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
not that im someone who normally knows what im talking in international affairs, but I do have a good idea of what was happening in iraq when my friend was there
Can i be a hentai nazi?
Comparing the people in the united states, all of us to the nazi regime is a little harsh. Bush's comparison can be iffy.
But calling all of america's people nazi's ? Can i have a hit of what your on? The Nazi's killed around 6 million or more jewish people, including women and children. I don't think the figures in iraq or anywher else aren't that extreme with that amount of predjudice.
Hell, france is baning all religous embloyms, head scarfs,large crosses, yamichas(don't kill me , forget what jewish people call them) from schools, do we hear about that, nope?
Taiwan is in a election crisis, BIG TIME. Do we hear about this? Nopers
China has soooooo many human rights violations.. not to mention a little thing called SARS. Do we hear about that? Nopers
Russia has chechen rebels. Hell, they killed off their own people trying to liberate a theater a year or so back. Do we hear about this? Nope
Germany? pfft. I fail to listen to someone over the age of 40 from germany who is bitching and moaning about "human rights violations that the us commits all over the world". Come on germany, remeber a little thing called the holocaust?
Theres some much backhanded shit going on around the world, you'd be suprised at whos dealing with who.
Hell, even in the UN, where everyone wanted more inspections, theres a HUUUUUGE oil for food scandal. Where buissness men,politicians from different countries got kickbacks from saddam for oil and etc. We hardly hear about that.
To sum it up, im not defending everything the country i live in does. Hell, i don't even agree with all of my governments decisions. What i do hate are generalizations. Thats like me saying, well everyone in france smells like rotten pigs.
Its the "hip" thing to do these days around the world, to jump in and bash Bush and the United States. If another country went into war like we did, we would be bashing them to. Its just a outlet for a lot of agression and frustration.
Hell, ever think who organizes the anti-US , anti-bush, anti-war protestors? Go take a look at whos heading these "Rallies".
Like i said before, im neither pro war or anti war. Im in the middle, i agree with seom stuff, disagree with others.
I just hate generalizations.
i agree with you for the most part...but i'd have to argue that lineQuote:
Originally posted by: Lego
Germany? pfft. I fail to listen to someone over the age of 40 from germany who is bitching and moaning about "human rights violations that the us commits all over the world". Come on germany, remeber a little thing called the holocaust?
alot of people who supported hitler, including alot of the soldiers, did so out of fear of being executed for treason....not because they willingly supported his ideals
Yeh, i remebe reading about that. Better to do what your told sometimes then face death or the consiquences.Quote:
alot of people who supported hitler, including alot of the soldiers, did so out of fear of being executed for treason....not because they willingly supported his ideals
The point im trying to make tough, is that everyone, soon as they find out im from the US, tries to down me saying you kill civilians blarghy blarghy.
When i find out there from germany, a african nation, or something to that degree, i laugh at them.
Everyones hands are dirty in something over the past couple years, well maybe except switzerland and their nuetrality.
Lego, don't you mean the people over 60 years old? 40 year olds weren't even alive during World War 2.
Yeh, it was one of those heat of the moment rants where everything comes to you [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
eugh im not saying bush is following what hitler did in anyway, jst saying hes evil. which he is. its jst a photo i found, i didnt make it myself. im from the UK and my government jst as useless, when it comes to making their own decisions, they jst follow america like a lapdog, not that the population is too happy about it. and lego when ever i said "america" i dont mean the american people, i jst mean the government, im too lazy to type out the full thing. trust me i dont think many of the american population are as fucked as their government (atleast i hope not). and lego, dont go comparing the modern day germans to the nazis, they have nothing to do with them, and germany has 1 of the largest ethnic populations in europe - go figure.Quote:
Originally posted by: -Sharingan-Kakashi-
Wow, hmmm. So, what country are you from? Is your country doing anything to help Zimbabwe? I didnt think so. If you think that the US government in place right now...and NO not EVERY administration is the same and runs the country in the same way, is as bad as the Nazis then you need to check your facts.Quote:
Originally posted by: r3n
id say the american government is as evil as the nazis were. they sold weapons to the iraqis as allies WHILE all this genocide stuff was happening in iraq, and now they call them their enemies for the single reason which is oil. theyve killed thousands of INNOCENT ppl purely for oil. notice how america hasnt even touched zimbabwe, where the president ordered the killing of hundreds of white farmers. not only this but he frequently arrests or kills opposition parties to his presidential position. ie. a dictator. but does america do anything about this? even though, i would say, it is almost exactly the same situation as iraq. and why doesnt america do anything about this? because its of no benefit to them.
you dont seriously think the american government is hunting so called "terrorists" for the safety of innocent ppl around the world do you? the american government couldnt care less about innocent ppl, why do you think it let 9/11 happen in the first place? so that it had a strong reason to invade the middle east, and why is it doing this? for oil.
the american goverment has no morals. it will order the killing of innocents purely to secure oil reserves. its as evil as evil gets, jst that it uses the media to disguise this fact. the sooner more ppl realise this truth the better.
Hitler murdered over 2 million innocent Jews and also killed Poles, Gypsies etc. Look at the American government, who are at WAR with Iraq. There has always been casualties in war, which people need to accept. If you actually believe that ALL the civilians who have been killed were innocent then you need to look at what is going on in Iraq right now, CIVILIANS, followeres of the Shiite cleric, killing American CIVILIANS and soldiers. This war is not about oil, thats a stupid misconception since the US gets almost all of its oil from Venezuela and other South American countries. The US is going to do what it needs to do to help itself. That is human nature, who are you going to help first, yourself or a stranger? By going to war with Iraq we would, ideally, put in place a US backed democratic goverment, which would be another ally in the middle east. Not every country is perfect, and countries will do what it needs to do that will help themselves in the long run.
sangai when u say support in arabic and muselim countries you were joking right?
Iraq have no links to terrorism at all. There is a huge difference between a tyrant of his own country and a terrorist. Also, Iraq never made an act of war against America. America did.Quote:
id have to say im pro war. us the uninted states is doing this to show that we will go after anykind of terrorism and retaliate to any kind of acts of war.
I gotta say I agree with r3n.
Someone made a comment before about 'whether we like it or not, America is the big super power who can pretty much do what they want' - that is EXACTLY what I'm afraid of...I don't see why they should be able to impose their beliefs on other countries - when the other country didn't do against them...
It is a fact that Iraq did not have, and showed no signs of making any kind of weapons to threaten the west, yes Saddam was a tyrant and did absolutely unspeakable things to his own people, but he knew better than to attack America...and there was no evidence to suggest Iraq could have been plotting anything in terms of attacking America.
A pre-emptive war is totally unjustifiable - you need concrete proof (or at least you are MEANT to have concrete proof) to go to war, the fact America and their bitch (by bitch I refer to my own snivelling country) went to war without offering a solid reason (their reasons also changed many times - they could not get their story straight because it quickly became apparent that there were no WMD in Iraq so they started talking about the the humanity etc). The 'evidence' given by both the UK and the US is so badly edited to suit their purposes of justifying the war that it borders on propaganda rather than evidence The fact that the major superpower is carrying out actions like this is very scary indeed...cross America and get battered...that seems to be the message coming across...
I find it depressing that no-one would ever vote for the Lib Dems over here in Britain...everyone just votes for the Conservatives (right wing) or the Labour Party (currently in power - supposedly left wing but have practically become right wing). I also find it sickening that Blair keeps narrowly getting out of trouble on a lot of his policies (his policies on education are just appalling, though thats another matter).
I also find it very scary that recently one of the major people in the US government said that if someone doesn't comply with the USA Patriot Act then they are not a patriot of their country, even going so far as to call them a 'domestic terrorist' - that is going directly against whatever Amendment it is in your constitution which allows you the right to free speech - as this person (I forget his name) said public debate on the USA Patriot Act is simply not allowed...a lot of people don't even know about this act - I find it terrifying that such a basic right is being denied to the people...whether you agree with the war or not surely people should agree that free speech is something that everyone (no matter on how much you dislike their views) has the right to.
This quote is taken from the 'EEF Analysis of the USA Patriot Act "One new definition of terrorism and three expansions of previous terms also expand the scope of surveillance. They are 1) § 802 definition of "domestic terrorism" (amending 18 USC §2331), which raises concerns about legitimate protest activity resulting in conviction on terrorism charges" - that is basically pointing out that people who are protesting legally can be arrested on suspicion of being terrorists!! How can that be justified? If you want to read any more of the quite worrying stuff this act entails then Click Here
i agree, the american government is cracking down on freedom of speach, id be worried if i lived there.
The best thing to do.... US should not care about other countries problems, acting like the world-protector, man don't give a damn, that's what I would've done...
THis is out of subject and all but...
From wat i know studying world history...
Hitler is famous for world war 2 and stuff thats y alot of ppl consider him mad evil... but From wat i read before.. this other guy named mao zak dong or something from china. He made hitler look like a kid. that Guy was like "wat boi? u saying i suk?" then see ya in the next life.
I BLAME BUSH FOR THE DOWNFALL OF EVERYTHING!
ALL HAIL CLINTON
ALL HAIL THAT VIETNAM WAR GUY WHOS RUNNING RITE NOW
That's the whole point, you don't live here, and you don't know how things are here. As far as you can tell the Bush adminstration is not taking away any of our freedom of speech rights, just because they said it doesnt means its enforced. The way I see it is, the goverment can spy on people as much as they want to ensure safety, and if you dont even know about it, then who cares? 9/11 didnt happen in your country, which is probably why you can have the views you have. My cousins live in Brooklyn, and my aunt's friend was killed in the World Trade Center. Sadaam was a terrorist, and he also applauded Bin Laden for the terror attacks on 9/11. The way I look at it, allowing Sadaam to stay in power means another enemy in the middle east, who wields a lot of power by the fact that he ruled an oil rich country. He killed any who would oppose him, and kept his people poor and in fear of their leader. If your the US why not take out the enemy who got away last time? The US has never been on good terms with Iraq, and by invading Iraq you get oil, a new democratic US backed goverment, and an ally in the middle east. Yes the US is doing this for itself, but by doing this theyre also helping the people in Iraq, while gaining more power in the middle east. I see nothing wrong with extending your world power, especially when your the strongest country in the world.
Comon, he just want to finnish his dad's work
I agree with the above. I mean look, if you have nothing to hide, why do you care if the government looks in on you from time to time? By weakening the middle-east, we strengthen ourselves, and in the long run that is what everyone is trying to do.Quote:
Originally posted by: -Sharingan-Kakashi-
That's the whole point, you don't live here, and you don't know how things are here. As far as you can tell the Bush adminstration is not taking away any of our freedom of speech rights, just because they said it doesnt means its enforced. The way I see it is, the goverment can spy on people as much as they want to ensure safety, and if you dont even know about it, then who cares? 9/11 didnt happen in your country, which is probably why you can have the views you have. My cousins live in Brooklyn, and my aunt's friend was killed in the World Trade Center. Sadaam was a terrorist, and he also applauded Bin Laden for the terror attacks on 9/11. The way I look at it, allowing Sadaam to stay in power means another enemy in the middle east, who wields a lot of power by the fact that he ruled an oil rich country. He killed any who would oppose him, and kept his people poor and in fear of their leader. If your the US why not take out the enemy who got away last time? The US has never been on good terms with Iraq, and by invading Iraq you get oil, a new democratic US backed goverment, and an ally in the middle east. Yes the US is doing this for itself, but by doing this theyre also helping the people in Iraq, while gaining more power in the middle east. I see nothing wrong with extending your world power, especially when your the strongest country in the world.
See, thats the beauty of world opinion itachi. If we stayed out of all the worlds problems, being one of the biggest military forces , people would still bitch. Hell, we didn't step in in haiti or that one african nation, i currently forget the name of that country, and people bitched for us to do so.Quote:
The best thing to do.... US should not care about other countries problems, acting like the world-protector, man don't give a damn, that's what I would've done...
We don't give a dam, world goes to shit.
[quote]
Originally posted by: Swallow Your Soul
this argument in itself suggests that he wasnt plotting anything against america because he wasnt strong enough to. now....like communism back in the day, countries CAN expand their power and alliances....and they CAN become stronger because of it. If everybody waited until someone became a huge powerful threat, then it would be bad for all of usQuote:
It is a fact that Iraq did not have, and showed no signs of making any kind of weapons to threaten the west, yes Saddam was a tyrant and did absolutely unspeakable things to his own people, but he knew better than to attack America...and there was no evidence to suggest Iraq could have been plotting anything in terms of attacking America.
r3n, where does freedom of speech come into play? people have anti-bush ads and stuff just the same as that picture you posted......so i find that not only is that irrelevent, but also inaccurate
the us isn't doing anything wrong. we have to act like the daddy of all countries or everything is gonna go to shit. and besides, if we don't keep people in check, everyone will start going ape shit, hurting the us economically. which sucks.
I don't really meddle into politics to much, considering it brings up lengthy debates and such. I consider myself a moderate democrat.
Ive come to realization that no matter what i do, short of blowing myself up inside the white house(yeh , like im gonna do that pfft) that protesting,bitching does nothing.
Hell, i could go stand on the street corner going , OMFG USA AR NAZI! , and no one would care, just honk at me and shout profanity.
What i do feel strongly about, as ive stated before are generalizations. We didn't vote for war, we wern't consulted in this war.
So stop bitching and complaining that the american people are nazi's,war mongers, and blah blah blah.
Instead of focusing so much on us and our buissness, why not go help out Kosovo, after the clashes that have hapened there in the past few months.
Lego this is a tired argument - you made your point about generalisations twice (at least) and no-one is doing that anymore so be happy [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]...Quote:
Originally posted by: Lego
I don't really meddle into politics to much, considering it brings up lengthy debates and such. I consider myself a moderate democrat.
Ive come to realization that no matter what i do, short of blowing myself up inside the white house(yeh , like im gonna do that pfft) that protesting,bitching does nothing.
Hell, i could go stand on the street corner going , OMFG USA AR NAZI! , and no one would care, just honk at me and shout profanity.
What i do feel strongly about, as ive stated before are generalizations. We didn't vote for war, we wern't consulted in this war.
So stop bitching and complaining that the american people are nazi's,war mongers, and blah blah blah.
Instead of focusing so much on us and our buissness, why not go help out Kosovo, after the clashes that have hapened there in the past few months.
(just to point out thats the end of the reply to lego)
The freedom of speech argument is valid r3n pointed out is true because the USA Patriot Act (which I posted a link for) says people can be arrested, prosecuted and convicted of terrorism for a mere protest! That is a denial of freedom, and an aspect of totalitarianism. Also, please examine the section on the link I provided which shows the act also involves laws that don't seem to have anything to do with terrorism.
SADDAM IS NOT A TERRORIST! I don't know whether he applauded Bin Laden or not, but Bin Laden hated, and I really do mean HATED Saddam...he went on record several times declaring Saddam his enemy. Also, like I keep saying - a pre-emptive war can not be justified...saying 'before long this might happen' is an appalling and paranoid way of looking at something...why not just bomb the fuck out of everyone then they'll do exactly what the government says?
What makes some people here think that the US government can just push everyone around and make everyone kowtow to their judgement? Iraq posed no threat to America at the time, and there was no evidence to suggest they ever would.
Finally, please stop linking 9/11 to Saddam Hussein - he had nothing to do with it - Bin Laden is responsible like that, so America has every right to get him...I'm very sorry that someone's relative had an aunt killed in 9/11, but that doesn't lend any strength to the argument justifying a war because of 9/11 because that was a completely different situation...your government manipulated 9/11 as an excuse to fill it's people full of fear and to assert more control over the population, and also to invade Iraq. I know 9/11 didn't happen in my country...but that doesn't have anything to do with the war with Iraq.
And yes, protest does have little effect, but its the only thing that can be done in the meantime and it shows people that people oppose it, I just hope when voting time comes more people vote for a better candidate than Bush.
Mut@t@ - the very idea that you are saying America has to keep everyone else in check is very frightening...the fact that America has more power than everyone else does NOT mean they should govern what goes on around the world - do you really believe America is above everyone else just because they have more power?
well shit. if everyone kept them selves in check we wouldn't be needed to do this. you're right the fact that we have more power than everyone doesn't mean that we should govern what goes on in the world. but if we don't, everything will go ape shit and when everything goes ape shit, it eventually hurts us. so we are protecting ourselves and everyone else at the same time. and i never said america is above everyone just cuz we have more power. we use our power in good ways. saddam needed to be taken out so he got taken out. done deal.
i don't wanna talk about this anymore, i hate politics. believe what you want and i will too, but too bad not matter what you or i say won't make a damn difference.
nevermind
Heres something to lighten the conversation
http://obsolete.servehttp.com/fark/saddam_pancake.jpg
agree, agree, and more agree. everything swallow ur soul said is pretty much what i feel. america have this opinion that because they can exert the greatest power in the world they can bully other countries, and act like the judge and jury of the rest of the world. america seems to think it is above its own restrictions it sets down on other countries, such as limiting of nuclear arms (yes america has the largest stock of nuclear arms on the planet). nobody gave america this right, it simply took it on itself. even when NATO objected to america invading iraq, and as i seem to remember, it also pointed out to america that the invasion of iraq was illegal on several counts, primarily because it has no PROOF that iraq had any involvement with 9/11, or no proof that iraq could attack any of america or its allies with WMD. (i wonder how many countries could attack america with the cause that "america could attack it with WMD"....mmm let me think....all of them?)
and when ppl start saying how a friend or relative died in 9/11 out of the couple of thousand of ppl that were killed that day. they seem to forget the hundreds of thousands (no thats not a typo) of innocents that have come in the crossfire of americas so called war on terrorism, along with previous attacks on more than 20 countries which were unprovoked attacks. jst because these ppl arent american citizens doesnt make their lives any less valueble.
and you wonder why so many terrorists attack america. remember, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.
well this is going to be my last post here, as i said before since you arent american i dont think you can understand. the fact that people are sypathizing with those who are killing coalition forces right now baffles me. i'm sorry your anti-america, and believe americans are as bad as nazis, but ill speak the truth now as i did before. i just think its jealousy, its as simple as that. i know you dont want to but accept the fact that america can do whatever the hell it wants until there is a country that can match them. the us went against the UN, which is basically the world, to go to war against iraq and what did they do about it? nothing. why? because they cant.
if you think about it, wouldnt it be best for everyone to have a unified system of government anyway? there wouldnt be political differences, there could easily be a worldwide market system.....and so forth.....the way things stand now there are conflicts going on all the time among the smaller countries. If iraq was democratic, then the US would do whatever it could to help their economy boom and make everyone there better off, just as we did for alot of the european countries after WW's (and we offered tons of money for those european countries to rebuild the cities and everything that was destroyed, and we didnt even expect them to pay that back either)
there are lots of iraqi civilians who hated the way things were there, some of you who are saying that trying to liberate them is bad is just the conclusion you made as you comfortably sit in your nice couch watching the US changing the lives of those people and probably assuming that everyone's quality of life is as good as yours and that nobody needs change. To say that they should have to put up with the government that saddam ruled just he's not bothering anybody outside of iraq is almost selfish.
My suggestion would be celerbety death match for real. even though Im gonna get flamed for this... I would just wanna watch people duke it out in the ring. they have a dispute, just go to a death match. Its better to kill 1 person than 10000000000 people =). and i wanna see saddam or osama fight bush Lol thats another reason
hahahhahhha brilliant! w000000000tQuote:
Originally posted by: -Sharingan-Kakashi-
well this is going to be my last post here, as i said before since you arent american i dont think you can understand. the fact that people are sypathizing with those who are killing coalition forces right now baffles me. i'm sorry your anti-america, and believe americans are as bad as nazis, but ill speak the truth now as i did before. i just think its jealousy, its as simple as that. i know you dont want to but accept the fact that america can do whatever the hell it wants until there is a country that can match them. the us went against the UN, which is basically the world, to go to war against iraq and what did they do about it? nothing. why? because they cant.
eugh, sharingankakashi, its people like you that sicken me. you're an american that condones the fact that america kills innocents jst to expand its power influence. and ill tell you a country that could quite easily destroy america, which is china. has the largest army in the world, by far aswell as a large nuclear arsenal, america wouldnt dare attack them, cos it would be suicide. im jst waiting for when america get their foreign policy shoved down their throat by china.
assertnfailure, plz dont talk about WW2 like its the europeans who were indebted to the americans. if our countries hadnt lost millions of lives to stop the nazis in both WWs, america would have almost certainly been invaded by now. and if i remember correctly, in WW2 america didnt even want to join the war cos it would be too expensive or some bs. so you can see how much they value their allies (i have no idea why the UK even sides with the US, shud jst stick with europe).
and yes jusdaman i actually agree. if all wars were solved like that it would be a lot less hassle. all osama wud need was a couple of pretzles...
Lets see how they do with taiwan first...Quote:
eugh, sharingankakashi, its people like you that sicken me. you're an american that condones the fact that america kills innocents jst to expand its power influence. and ill tell you a country that could quite easily destroy america, which is china. has the largest army in the world, by far aswell as a large nuclear arsenal, america wouldnt dare attack them, cos it would be suicide. im jst waiting for when america get their foreign policy shoved down their throat by china.
It don't support US, but Saddam is plain evil. Just watch South park. Saddam did a "Mussolini". And compairing Bush and US to the natzis is just wrong.
Most of the natzis, was just plain germans who wanted a better life. So they joined the natzis and got food.
Man can't they help other countries insteed of killing people. It's the people of US who's paying for the war.
Yeah I'm gonna stop posting unless there is something specific I have to say (in case I have to reply to something basically). I just want to make a couple of last points in response to this postQuote:
Originally posted by: -Sharingan-Kakashi-
well this is going to be my last post here, as i said before since you arent american i dont think you can understand. the fact that people are sypathizing with those who are killing coalition forces right now baffles me. i'm sorry your anti-america, and believe americans are as bad as nazis, but ill speak the truth now as i did before. i just think its jealousy, its as simple as that. i know you dont want to but accept the fact that america can do whatever the hell it wants until there is a country that can match them. the us went against the UN, which is basically the world, to go to war against iraq and what did they do about it? nothing. why? because they cant.
Point 1) I don't understand how not living in America has that much to do with whether I can comment on this war or not. Iraq didn't carry out any attack on America in order to start this war so why should an American understand any more than anyone else?
Point 2) I'm not anti-america, I don't like the actions of your government...that is not being anti-america
Point 3) I'm not sympathising with those who are killing coalition forces. I am against the war - that is a completely different thing.
Point 4) I don't believe americans are as bad as the nazi's, but I understand the point the people who made that sign are putting across. The American government is basically making a statement that 'cross america and get invaded', and also brought in a law silencing whoever in their own country wants to publicly disagree with this war.
Point 5) Despite the fact you say I can't accept the fact America can do anything they want - I can! And I have! I am in denial of nothing because that is exactly what I have been saying - IT TERRIFIES ME THAT AMERICA CAN DO PRETTY MUCH WHATEVER WHAT THEY WANT!!!
Point 6) I'm not jealous about anything, if Britain started throwing it's weight around (if it had as much weight to throw around as America that is) then I'd be just as much against our government than I am right now against America's government - I've said numerous times that I totally disagree with our current government on various issues, one of which is the war on Iraq, others involving education etc.
Point 7) The fact that the UN can do nothing about it is exactly what scares me...just because America are free to do what they please because no-one can oppose them doesn't mean they are right in doing whatever the hell they want to do. A bully isn't justified on picking on victims just because s/he is bigger and stronger than them.
EDIT - yeah I know I said I had a couple of last points when in fact it turned out to be seven, but there turned out to be more things I had to point out than I anticipated...
Well I know I said last post before but this one made me have to respond. I do NOT condone the killing of innocent people, but when there is war people other than soldiers will get killed, and that just shows how ugly war really is. At this point I believe war was neccesary instead of allowing a psychotic tyrant to continue to rule an oil rich country. Like someone earlier said as a world superpower you need to keep the potentially powerful enemies down before they become a much greater problem.Quote:
Originally posted by: r3n
eugh, sharingankakashi, its people like you that sicken me. you're an american that condones the fact that america kills innocents jst to expand its power influence. and ill tell you a country that could quite easily destroy america, which is china. has the largest army in the world, by far aswell as a large nuclear arsenal, america wouldnt dare attack them, cos it would be suicide. im jst waiting for when america get their foreign policy shoved down their throat by china.
assertnfailure, plz dont talk about WW2 like its the europeans who were indebted to the americans. if our countries hadnt lost millions of lives to stop the nazis in both WWs, america would have almost certainly been invaded by now. and if i remember correctly, in WW2 america didnt even want to join the war cos it would be too expensive or some bs. so you can see how much they value their allies (i have no idea why the UK even sides with the US, shud jst stick with europe).
and yes jusdaman i actually agree. if all wars were solved like that it would be a lot less hassle. all osama wud need was a couple of pretzles...
No I dont think China could defeat the US. Just because they have the most men doesnt mean they would win in a war. America's true power is in their technology, military technology is usually atleast 10 years ahead of the technology we know/use now. The weapons we see are the ones that will easiest get the job done, but it doesnt mean its their most powerful. I also remember the giant China being defeated by a country smaller than the US, Japan, who they have been defeated by many times throughout history, most recently WWII. If a war with China was ever going to happen the US would know well before hand, allowing them to re-instate the draft and swelling their forces.
About your WWII statements, that one made me chuckle. Where would the UK be if the US hadnt entered WWII? Oh yeah thats right invaded by the Nazis, and inevitably the US would have had to enter WWII to bail out you Europeans who are so soft now compared to your former 'greatness.' Yes it is true the US was making a lot of money off WWII. So what? The US was supposed to stay out of European problems and Europe is supposed to stay out of problems in the Americas. But, Europe couldent defeat Germany so we had to save you. Not to mention help countries rebuild after the war.
=) China's military is on par with americas. not alot of people believe that because we rarely hear crap about wat china is doing.. the latest news is SARS which happened like a year ago.. (besides the 7 china man going to iraq). Reason why back then china lost to japan. industrial revolution, Japanese modernized with western ways and wooped alot of ass. china was still using old school renasance cannons when japan was using Like tanks and crap. Man japan even wooped russia around that time too.
When japan bombed pearl harbor america didn't go in with that much force cause japan was a "rebel", they were born to fight. american woulda won eventually but the sacarfice was too great. that's y america did a 2 hiroshima's.
Who are China's big allies though? We have most of the powerful nations siding with us, and in some cases *i.e. North Korea's Nukes* China even sides with us. China is not a problem simply because if one of us attacked the other, it would incite World War 3, and no one is willing to do that. So while two super powers balance each other out, it in no way stops the US from doing what it needs to.
[quote]
Originally posted by: -Sharingan-Kakashi-
so you think that if you hadnt helped the rest of europe + russia fight against the nazis, you would have still been A OK today? bullshit. without europe fighting the nazis to begin with america would have been crushed in under 10 years. europe was the one that lost the lives in the war. not america. you wanna be at the forefront of a war? by all means, we'll pay for your funeral, and rebuild ur house too.Quote:
Originally posted by: r3n
About your WWII statements, that one made me chuckle. Where would the UK be if the US hadnt entered WWII? Oh yeah thats right invaded by the Nazis, and inevitably the US would have had to enter WWII to bail out you Europeans who are so soft now compared to your former 'greatness.' Yes it is true the US was making a lot of money off WWII. So what? The US was supposed to stay out of European problems and Europe is supposed to stay out of problems in the Americas. But, Europe couldent defeat Germany so we had to save you. Not to mention help countries rebuild after the war.
ive had enuf of arguing about this topic neway. im not gunna change my opinion becos of what you say, and ur obviously not gunna change ur opinion no matter what i say. so im jst gunna agree to disagree, go love ur government and all the lovely things theyre gunna do for the world.
You're giving the US too much credit.
As far as im concerned if it weren't for the russians the US and the rest of the world would've been screwed.
I would love to see any country, do something about the violence in Africa. The congo and etc instead of iraq,north korea and etc.
It seems africa gets looked over the most.
Do I think war is the answer? No!
War is actually the question....YES! is the answer.
You are all foolish to think that your voices actually matter.
Things are happening right now that you will never ever
know about and probably never understand. But to sit
at home and bitch about the things that are going on in
this world and continue to sit without action leads me to
believe more in my state of opinion which is...fuck it!
[img]i/expressions/devil.gif[/img]
i believe it was the US that turned the tides of WWII when we got involved.....good thing the bully nation of the world decided to get involed THAT time, eh? we didnt OWE it to the european nations to pay for their damages, but we helped out anyway cause thats what we do for our friendly nations....
our success benefits all democratic countries, so quit bein a tree hugging hippie r3n
WORDQuote:
Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
i believe it was the US that turned the tides of WWII when we got involved.....good thing the bully nation of the world decided to get involed THAT time, eh? we didnt OWE it to the european nations to pay for their damages, but we helped out anyway cause thats what we do for our friendly nations....
our success benefits all democratic countries, so quit bein a tree hugging hippie r3n
trees are meant to be chopped down for paper not for hugging.Quote:
Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
i believe it was the US that turned the tides of WWII when we got involved.....good thing the bully nation of the world decided to get involed THAT time, eh? we didnt OWE it to the european nations to pay for their damages, but we helped out anyway cause thats what we do for our friendly nations....
our success benefits all democratic countries, so quit bein a tree hugging hippie r3n
Yes America did turn the tides of WWII when we were at our lowest...and helped considerably afterwards - and it is appreciated.. From what little I've heard about WWII (history class at school being about 5 or 6 years ago) America didn't want to fully get into war as the American public did not want them to do anything about it, then Pearl Harbour happened and then America got involved...either way, whatever happened it was very good for the allies that America came in towards the end.Quote:
Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
i believe it was the US that turned the tides of WWII when we got involved.....good thing the bully nation of the world decided to get involed THAT time, eh? we didnt OWE it to the european nations to pay for their damages, but we helped out anyway cause thats what we do for our friendly nations....
Past doesn't justify present though, helping us out back then doesn't justify doing something wrong in the present (whether you think this war is wrong or not is irrelevent - I'm just making the point).
As I've said, past doesn't justify present, so stop making stereotypical generalisations about people who happen to disagree with you. Calling people who are anti-war tree hugging hippies is just as bad as calling the American Government a bunch of Nazis...both accusations are considerably over-exaggerated.
Aite let me ask u.. Since when did australia EVER in human race get attacked. Same question for antartica (im sure theres atleast 100 people living there)Quote:
Originally posted by: Lego
I would love to see any country, do something about the violence in Africa. The congo and etc instead of iraq,north korea and etc.
It seems africa gets looked over the most.
I think Australia were getting attacked by the Japanese. But I dont think they ever invaded.Quote:
Originally posted by: JusDaMan
Aite let me ask u.. Since when did australia EVER in human race get attacked. Same question for antartica (im sure theres atleast 100 people living there)
I know this because I saw a documentary about Japanese zero fighters crashing all over the Northern parts of Australia. Something like that lah.
But it wasn't a full blown Invasion. I'm no History buff, but I suspected during that time, Japanese doods were too far stretched and/or was roaming around Indonesia and/or protecting the Philliipines because during that time, US was retaliating.
Several things I'd like to point out ..
1st, I think the US gets too involved with world affairs, and I wish our govt would worry about serious domestic problems before picking fights with tin-can dictators like Saddam. Alas, we are already involved, I hope the situation improves. Very difficult to stabalize a country where different factions are so hateful of each other that they use murder and violence as their first options. Sadly, the only stable solution seems to be a brutal regime that keeps people in check, like Saddam's. Which brings me to the question .. if that's the best we can hope for, why did we bother? WMD? Terrorist funding? Nah, it's probably just an issue of $. Sad.
2nd, on the China military issue.. China would have been extremely dangerous if they had advanced convential weapons and training in a pre-nuclear world. The fact unfortunately remains, however, that we are in the age of the H-bomb, and that basically nullifies the advantage of huge numbers of troops (just more bodies to fry). So what we are left with is the comparison of arsenals. China's ICBMs are slow, and carry a maximum of 1 5MT warhead at a range of around 13,000km .. and that's their DF5A, which is liquid-silo based .. takes a while to prepare. They only have 20 of these in confirmed existence. China is a respectable force in conventional terms, but a toothless one in terms of nuclear capability. They would need to crank out fast, solid-rocket (no warmup) ICBMs with huge MIRV warhead systems in order to compete.
http://www.nrdc.org/nuclear/nudb/datab17.asp
What is EXTREMELY sick, is the vast and potentially planet-killing nuclear arsenal of the US. Consider the absolutely staggering power of the Ohio-class boomers. A *single* Ohio could fire it's entire payload of 154 tomahawks (which can deliver nuclear payload), in UNDER SIX MINUTES. The same if you have an Ohio outfitted with it's 24 ICBMs, each of which can carry independent MIRV warhead systems ..
The bottom line is that a SINGLE Ohio can kill almost everyone in china within a span of about 30 minutes. That's the world we live in today, SSBN and ICBM/MIRV with huge MT are unequaled. Use in war would have catastrophic consequences for the world.
AFIAK, the last count of US nukes was something like 114x more than China. Only the USSR was as committed as the US was to h-bombs, and it made them go bankrupt.
I'm not sure what's worse, fighting enormous wars like WW2 where millions of soldiers and civilians die the old-fashioned way, or a next-gen nuclear war where billions die in less than a day.
i didn't understand a single word in that sentence...too many acronyms, but from what i can tell... us > china. agreed.
Rofl, yeah Dazzz I think you more or less got it right [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Lots of hate in this thread, I got four words for you: WHERE IS THE LOVE??
NUclear is a good weapon for standoff's. No one wants to fire the damn thing. Especially now that North Korea has it.
Luckily, Iraq hasn't got one yet. It's always bad business if Rogue nations have one of these. Their too mentally unstable to realise the consequences. (Thats what he percieve, but North Korea has been keeping rather quiet though, maybe because their best Friend China isn't so 'best' anymore).
down the barrel of a machine gun.
so all of those against the war support tyrants. murders and other inhumane acts.
Good old hand to hand fist fights! hell yea lol. then we can see whos the strongest of strongest in the world. US got most power weapon wise but also got most fat people. A good old fashion fist fight will tell whos the strongest in the world... and i would say... China or brazil will take home the strongest!
All i can say about the war is. Proud to be canadian
Well. Politics. People have different oppinions. And the one's who begin to hate is those that think they could change the mindset of the other readers. It never happens. No matter how many facts you give. It just enrages the other side.Quote:
Originally posted by: ad4mz41
Lots of hate in this thread, I got four words for you: WHERE IS THE LOVE??
And the best part about it. No matter what we say or what we crap. It still wouldn't make a difference.
*Damn.. Wanted to find the 'Winning on the internet is like the special Olympics, Even if you win, your still retarded' picture.*
you cant hug your children with nuclear arms
More like Tentical or Smoldering Stumps
Quote:
id have to say im pro war. us the uninted states is doing this to show that we will go after anykind of terrorism and retaliate to any kind of acts of war.
Quote:
id have to say im pro war. us the uninted states is doing this to show that we will go after anykind of terrorism and retaliate to any kind of acts of war.
sangai sakusei, if u think the US will go after any kind of terrorism and acts of war etc, ur sadly mistaken.
im not sure whether ur aware or not, but recently mr.bush backed a new plan by ariel sharon (israeli prime minister).....im not sure about the details of it, but u can check that ur self if u like. the point im trying to make is, the israeli gov't has had an illegal occupation of palestine for a very long time, and is making jewish colonies (for jews *only*) in palestinian land (i believe its was in the west bank). the new israeli plan says to give back like 2% of the taken land and thats it, and mr.bush called it a "historic and courageous act"....perhaps hes not aware that according to a UN resolution (242 i think) land cannot be taken thru war by an occupying power.
and thats just *one* of the many international laws that israel is breaking (and for that matter, the US too....they broke about 6 international laws by going to war).......and as for tyrants, prime minister aerial sharon was (and i quote) "personally responsible" for the deaths of 1700 palestinian civilians in the sabra and shatila massacre....and thats according to the official 1993 israeli report. however u dont see bush chasing mr sharon with b52 bombers, do u?
nothing personal man, but before u make such bold statements, make sure ur absolutely rite. a war on terror is a worthy cause, no doubt, but in my opinion (and i emphasize the word "opinion") its just a front for another version of manifest destiny.
Yes, I agree Assassin. Kind of ironic how the Israeli government is persecuting the Palestinians, very similiar to the Nazi during WW2.
i believe i can say it all by doing this...
Brrr...its cold in here....there must be some nukes in the atmosphere...
My comments on this? Well of course i think this whole WMD is a bix hoax
they "say" they know where they are...where as they did not find a single one..
and when they interviewed george bush SR interviewers were asking him questions
and he said this wasnt about oil in any way...a reporter quick witted which i liked commented
"nobody said anything about oil....why did you bring that up?"
So i thought that was kind of amusing
Anyways the way i see it....the only reason the earth is going to get destroyed is by the humans living on it, we will kill each other before our planet melting or something sci-fi happen to it.
I believe this was a pointless war Bush got on the war wagon and everyone was opposed to it anyways
and now Canada has a bad name from the states....whoopie doo...now im not saying i hate americans i know many americans and they are very friendly..and they all are against the war too....
Well i think i could come up with more comments but it could easily be a screaming match or a typing match back and forth..
Well it wasn't totally pointless. We did get Saddam and his lunatic family. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Bah, Saddam at least was keeping his idiot population in check by way of his sheer brutality. With the Hussein boys out of power, now will come an endless amount of bitching and killing by the various factions within Iraq (political and religious sects) .. and any foreign presence will be bogged down in that bullshit quagmire until they leave.
So, we (the US and coalition), have successfully traded one bad situation for another. News flash : it's not going to get any better. Probably 70% or more of the Iraqi population want to just live a happy, peaceful, normal existence, but the remaining miscreants will NEVER stop in their mindless arguing and killing, unless they are totally stomped on by someone like Saddam.
So f&ck it, its just a big waste of time, and makes the US look like total morons in the world community. It also makes Bush look like the biggest moron in history .. he uses WMD as an excuse, when all the while Kim Jong Il from North Korea is like "LOOK AT ME IVE GOT BIG NUKES AND I HATE EVERYONE AND IM MAKING MORE RIGHT NOW!!!". Rofl [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
if you're looking for quotes of stupid things bush has said.....im sure there are at least a few websites out there with a pretty nice database of it
shouldnt be too hard to 'google it
Quote:
Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
Bah, Saddam at least was keeping his idiot population in check by way of his sheer brutality. With the Hussein boys out of power, now will come an endless amount of bitching and killing by the various factions within Iraq (political and religious sects) .. and any foreign presence will be bogged down in that bullshit quagmire until they leave.
So, we (the US and coalition), have successfully traded one bad situation for another. News flash : it's not going to get any better. Probably 70% or more of the Iraqi population want to just live a happy, peaceful, normal existence, but the remaining miscreants will NEVER stop in their mindless arguing and killing, unless they are totally stomped on by someone like Saddam.
So f&ck it, its just a big waste of time, and makes the US look like total morons in the world community. It also makes Bush look like the biggest moron in history .. he uses WMD as an excuse, when all the while Kim Jong Il from North Korea is like "LOOK AT ME IVE GOT BIG NUKES AND I HATE EVERYONE AND IM MAKING MORE RIGHT NOW!!!". Rofl [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Too late to backout from Iraq now. Lets hope for the Best in July eh?
About WMD in Iraq when we should be looking at N.Korea. Yup. US should have went into North Korea sooner Eh? Damn the Clinton Administration!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
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Heheheh. I love Bush quotes. Their really entertaining. He should do stand up comedy after this year (Unless he gets re-elected).
The quote which I found most inspiring... was....
(I'm quoting this at the back of my head, so it's not accurate.. )
When he was talking to students at some Uni:
If you get A' for your grades. GOOD JOB!!!
If you get B' for your Grades. Keep on working harder.
If you get C' for your grades. YOU CAN BE PRESIDENT.
Does any1 remember that funny website with the nukes and crap? i remember something like.
hokay ruling out the ice melting
meteor crashing to the earth
and the sun exploding. we will definately blow ourselves up
hokay so we got america china uk pakastan russia and india with nukes the US got 26000 more than anyone else. So one day bush wants to lauch those chinese sons of a bitches.
etc etc.
and it ends with like
califorina's gonna hang with hallwaii.... alaska can come too
THE END
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/endofworld.htmlQuote:
Originally posted by: JusDaMan
Does any1 remember that funny website with the nukes and crap? i remember something like.
hokay ruling out the ice melting
meteor crashing to the earth
and the sun exploding. we will definately blow ourselves up
hokay so we got america china uk pakastan russia and india with nukes the US got 26000 more than anyone else. So one day bush wants to lauch those chinese sons of a bitches.
etc etc.
and it ends with like
califorina's gonna hang with hallwaii.... alaska can come too
THE END
Quote:
Originally posted by: Stoopider
Quote:
Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
Bah, Saddam at least was keeping his idiot population in check by way of his sheer brutality. With the Hussein boys out of power, now will come an endless amount of bitching and killing by the various factions within Iraq (political and religious sects) .. and any foreign presence will be bogged down in that bullshit quagmire until they leave.
So, we (the US and coalition), have successfully traded one bad situation for another. News flash : it's not going to get any better. Probably 70% or more of the Iraqi population want to just live a happy, peaceful, normal existence, but the remaining miscreants will NEVER stop in their mindless arguing and killing, unless they are totally stomped on by someone like Saddam.
So f&ck it, its just a big waste of time, and makes the US look like total morons in the world community. It also makes Bush look like the biggest moron in history .. he uses WMD as an excuse, when all the while Kim Jong Il from North Korea is like "LOOK AT ME IVE GOT BIG NUKES AND I HATE EVERYONE AND IM MAKING MORE RIGHT NOW!!!". Rofl [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Too late to backout from Iraq now. Lets hope for the Best in July eh?
About WMD in Iraq when we should be looking at N.Korea. Yup. US should have went into North Korea sooner Eh? Damn the Clinton Administration!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
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Heheheh. I love Bush quotes. Their really entertaining. He should do stand up comedy after this year (Unless he gets re-elected).
The quote which I found most inspiring... was....
(I'm quoting this at the back of my head, so it's not accurate.. )
When he was talking to students at some Uni:
If you get A' for your grades. GOOD JOB!!!
If you get B' for your Grades. Keep on working harder.
If you get C' for your grades. YOU CAN BE PRESIDENT.
You could just pretty much have it like this
NK:HEY HEY.......AMERICA we have nukes we're bad ass!!
US:Uhm....no thats ok, we started a war, we want oil theres nothing in your place
yeah those posers.....everyone's tryin to be hip like us and build nukes
You ain't da bomb till you got da bomb you know.