significant plot twists that turn out pointless

i dunno if you guys thought much about it.....but it kinda bugs me how kishimoto adds things into the series that seem like it would be a really big deal.....and maybe for a while it is, but then you find yourself in a wtf situation and wonder why he bothered with all that
i can think of at least 3 occurences of this.....

1) oro putting the seal on naruto
Its supposed to mess up naruto's flow of chakra with kyubi....but how did that actually impact the series in any way? I guess it got jiraiya's attention....but it seemed a little elaborate of a way to do so....naruto was still able to perform just as well in the prelims with the seal, and im sure if he actually had chakra problems, he wouldve pointed it out as anime series tend to do so.

2) gekkou hayate's cold
Rarely do you see an anime character distinctively coughing alot without there being a purpose to it. Some thought maybe he incorporates his cold with his jutsu or something weird like that. Considering that ninjas can use bugs for combat, why not germs? Yet instead he just dies and nothing more is said of it.

3) sarutobi sealing oro's arms
Ok now im sure i'll get some arguments about this one....but if all oro had to do to regain his arms was to use his immortality jutsu....sarutobi's death was completely in vain. All it did was delay him, which in itself may be enough to change the outcome of the series, but unless something big happens within the next few years that oro has to wait before performing the jutsu again, i'd be pissed. I'm sure this was all part of kishimoto's plans to have sasuke join oro without being possessed too soon, but for someone as prestigous as the hokage to sacrifice his life just to buy them 2 years or so seems kinda lame.

For me, plot twists that were once significant can change.

If it doesn't do much later it falls into the back of my mind into the insignificant, I don't think about it anymore category.

Sarutobi sealing the arms though... this one totally bites at the moment.

Plot twists in Naruto could be effective if they come up during the explanation of an event, like why Itachi killed the Uchiha Clan, or if we found out that the 4th is Naruto's dad and is also sealed inside of Naruto. I wouldn't consider Hayate's cold to be a plot twist, but I think I understand what you mean.

er well yeah.....i sorta thought of hayate after i opened the topic.....but it kinda makes me wonder if kishimoto is doing stuff like that intentionally (like with hayate maybe they'll reference it when they explain that anbu girl more)...or maybe it could also just be because he's new at manga....which IS true...im surprised he's doing so well with this being his first big release

actually i heard he did another manga that he says is really his best work. naruto is just having unprecedented success.

the main character in his other manga kinda looks like naruto, but he smokes.

er well yeah.....i sorta thought of hayate after i opened the topic.....but it kinda makes me wonder if kishimoto is doing stuff like that intentionally (like with hayate maybe they'll reference it when they explain that anbu girl more)...or maybe it could also just be because he's new at manga....which IS true...im surprised he's doing so well with this being his first big release

i thought bringing in hinata was pretty pointless. where is she now?

EDIT: this is when my hatred towards hinata went berserk:

http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~s_kim/images/stupid.jpg

hinata has said the absolutely stupidest and most loser-like thing i've heard in my life.

oh that reminds me Mut@t@ of the scene with sakura getting her hair cut
they made a big deal about how she changed and junk....but she's pretty much just as useless now in the manga as she was before the incident

The female leaf genin are all useless. TenTen's special double dragon attack didn't work at all, and Ino was defeated by Inner Sakura. And I don't even need to prove my point with Hinata and Sakura.

well im sure they'll build more on the relationship between hinata and naruto at some point...and same with sakura and the other guys in her love triangle (well...some funky shaped triangle, but one nonetheless). Can't say that would be all that useful when actual conflicts arise though

however there's always the theory of sakura becoming more of a healer as an apprentice to tsunade

I really want more Hinata-Naruto stuff. More romance, damn it!

Delaying him was the whole point once he realized he couldnt kill him.

it was to delay him long enough for a new hokage to be appointed and that they would defend the village against the next attack, he even hints at this before he summons the god of sealing death.

His death was NOT in vain, it gave them time to track down Tsunade didnt it?

Hayates cold is not a plot twist in any way, its just a characteristic of him.
just like Sigures scar (guy who gets killed by Gaara)

they just have them ok? is it that hard to believe that you cannot learn everything about everyone?
you might encounter someone outside with a huge bruise mark and never know why they have it and when it happened, does it really matter how they got it if they're such a small part of your life and you never talk to them?
none of the gennins ever talked to Hayate.

that doesnt change my opinion that "Rarely do you see an anime character distinctively coughing alot without there being a purpose to it." Scars are common....cause ninjas are battle-hardened soldiers...as is lots of characters are in action series.....but the cold is a very different characteristic

Sarutobi sealed up oro with the intention of him living his life without the use of jutsus.....which, sarutobi intended to be a punishment worse than death for oro....at least thats the impression i got from the way he concluded that match. He vowed to rid konoha of the menace known as orochimaru once and for all....not.....delay him for a couple years

actually, the seal on Oro's hands stopped him from using Sasuke as a new host, therefore, it keeps Sasuke alive for a couple more years...

The seal oro gave to Naruto was indeed quite useless, so i give the thumbs down to kishimoto on that...

The title should be insignificant plot twists that turn out pointless.

If it was significant it wouldn't be pointless.

1)It was noted that it was a rough seal and messed up all of Naruto's chakra flow (not just the demon fox stuff). When he went to fight kiba, he still won even with this handicap. This is more to help show what kind of character naruto is, not an overall plot point.

2)I think it wasn't anything important. I also think he may have had it just to try and make the enemy underestimate him.

3)Delayed to stop him getting sasuke, mentioned above. Very important, and it will have a definate impact on the future of the story.

hope that has answered the questions [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

I'd like to add Lee jumping in to fight Kimimaro, Just for Gaara to intervene. We kinda knew that someone was definitely going to interven, but if it was going to be Gaara. Why didn't he just show up instead of Lee?

^^^^
If thats at 212 spoiler I'm going to kill you

I dont think anything has been pointless so far in terms of "plot twists"
Hayates coughing was odd but I wouldnt call it a plot twist (its equivalanet to Jirayia being a prevent, its just the way he is)

As mentioned aleady, Oro's seal on Naruto was to show that Naruto is still talented with out kyubi and it was used to take Naruto out with the other Genin fought the sound nin. It did its job and then it was removed.

The sealing arm thing also served its purpose as its time is to end. With sealing the arms, they found Tsunade and saved Sasuke for a while

i still think that the hokage sacrificing himself just to buy a little time is kinda a dissappointing way for him to die

I'm not trying to validate the manga like some others. You can find an excuse or loophole for everything so it's certainly true that some efforts turned pointless and he's winging a lot of it. But I'll be danged if Orochi's gonna wind up surviving the couple years until he can take Sasuke's body. Even THIS manga isn't going to last THAT long/ Bust out the last rites and kiss his slivering arse goodbye.

I believe oro sealed naruto because naruto was giving him quite a hard time... he didn't want to awaken kyobi now did he?

They can shrug it off as a temporary reseal since he wasn't spose to take long, but you can always make excuses for the creator on open-ended stuff. He'd do all this stuff differently to make it flow better if he remade the series. It's not perfect, and he overlooks things. If you want your series completely planned out with no flaws it's just not gonna happen with series this long. It discourages all of us a little. When it gets bad enough, more people start losing interest, and it inevitably dies. It's just the life cycle, and they'll keep it going as long as they can.

the way they made the big deal about naruto being able to do the water training excersize after the seal was removed, you'd think that he had that handicap the entire series [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

and yeah, i know that somethin will happen to oro within the few years that he has to wait before taking sasuke's body....cause i highly doubt sasuke's ever gonna get possessed.....but im sure they'll end up pushing it close

bringing back lee as the heroic rescuer only to be saved by the one who ruined his shit in the first place is pretty pointless. i mean, leave that kid in the hospital, where he belongs. and i guess gaara will in story for longer now.

I would have to agree with the Jounin [Mut@t@] on this one. Rock Lee is indefinitely my favorite character, and I would have loved to see more of him. His arrival was wonderfully anticipated, and I could not have been more excited to see him. His lil' debut of drunken style fighting was cute, and anything involving Lee is taken well by me.

However, only to last two (three? four?) chapters, and only to be rescued by the cheesy bum [even if the new duds are kosher] that crushed two limbs of his .. is bull. Ironic, but also pointless. It was great to see Lee, but it should have either remained as Lee, or had Gaara arrive from the break. Then again, we do not know what is to come from the next chapters, so we cannot say much. Although, I am sure myriad theories will be springing to life any moment, now ..

Ninja vanish.

yeah, im sure lee will do some useful stuff.....but i think the idea that more and more people keep showing up is really interesting......
first there was the sound 4 vs the 5 konoha kids
then it was 2 sound vs 3 konoha
then 3 sound vs 3 konoha
then 3 sound and sasuke vs 4 konoha
and now 3 sound and sasuke vs 4 konoha and 3 sand

As I had briefly stated in another post, I am enjoying all of these surprise visitations. The only negative, is that each chapter is too short to house the intensity each character is bringing to the table. The plate is too full. Each chapter is going to have to be based on one to two events, at a time. Advancing the story arc will be even slower with too much going on.

Next chapter .. even though I really want to see what the Sand Nin's next actions will be .. don't you agree that we need to see Naruto & Sasuke? As well as the true outcome of Neji and Chouji. I like Neji, too. He can't be dead .. Sniff, sniff ..

Ninja vanish!

yeah....that brings back something i mentioned before comparing the anime and manga
people say that the manga takes too long for action stuff to move on, and they also say that flashback type anime episodes drag on for too long

simply put.....dialogue scenes progress quickly in the manga, as a whole conversation can take place in one or 2 frames while in the anime it can take half an episode for a conversation to carry out...since it actually has to be spoken, not read.
Action scenes however are hard to depict as still images in a manga, and so fight scenes take up alot more space. Anime naturally handles these things well and which is why you can take for example the most recent episode where 3 full manga chapters were covered in one episode.

Although people say that this saga seems to get kinda boring for a while....it seems to me like it was much more designed for animation, and will become extremely cool when the anime gets to this point

Well said, AssertnFailure [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] I haven't really been a fan of this 'chase sasuke' series at all, but considering what it might be like in anime form, could be decent. And it will be soooo cool to see Lee, Gaara, Temari show up [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

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Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
Well said, AssertnFailure [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] I haven't really been a fan of this 'chase sasuke' series at all, but considering what it might be like in anime form, could be decent. And it will be soooo cool to see Lee, Gaara, Temari show up [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

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When you talk like that, one can say that you've found the perfect excuse for Sasuke's behavior.
It brought some intersting characters back.

Heh, yeah, I'm quite sure that wasn't Sasuke's motivation, but that doesn't bother me. I'm just glad that this has gotten more interesting [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

I'm surprised some of you don't see the utter sweetness that will be Rock Lee and Gaara double teaming Kimimaro.

They fought each other so they know each other's techniques well. Hell, Gaara's the only one to ever be on the receiving end of Lee's Ura Renge.

Maybe they'll do something crazy like, instead of using banadages, have Gaara bind Kimimaro with a Desert Coffin for the Omote Renge.

Or maybe giving Lee sand armor.

Yeah that could be a wicked combination .. one way or the other, Kimimaro is probably gonna go down like a sack of moldy potatoes [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] The question is, how much of a fight can he put up?

it would be very ironic as well if gaara was to battle sasuke again....but this time both of them switching between good and evil

Personally, while I think that Gaara and Rock Lee double teaming ANYBODY is pretty much death in all ways considered, and should definately be regarded that way, I just don't get the feeling that Kishimoto is going to have them just DROP Kimi, because that would make him even more useless of a character (he exists only to make sure sasuke gets back to Orochimaru right? He's going to die of natural (or unnatural, depending on how you look at it) causes any time now. I imagine at best, Kishimoto is going to have Kimimaro put up a damn good fight. At worst, he'll ignore the fact that Gaara + Rock Lee just plain equals victory by all logical mathematical equations. I hope we don't see the latter happening.

Anyways, moving the topic BACK TO WHERE IT STARTED somewhat, Assertn, we have yet to ascertain that Orochimaru's taking a new body is all that's required to return his strength. After all, remember, it was the SOUL'S arms that were cut off, so to speak. It would not surprise me if Orochimaru still needed healing in some way, or even less surprising, if his new body's arms started decaying like the last one's did, albeit at a slower rate. The fact that the body oro took looks surprisingly like Tsunade's brother might actually play some kind of part in this. Would Orochimaru be capable of deceiving Tsunade, were that the case? Probably not. But you know, that whole 'dying to seal orochimaru' thing might not be over yet. It's highly possible that the third's death was not in vain and that Orochimaru will be unable to use jutsus as effectively in short order, or even at all. I mean, when you think about it, the third already knew that Orochimaru could take other people's bodies, so I highly doubt he would have assumed that he ended the Orochimaru problem so easily unless there was more to it. At either rate, chopping off the soul's arms SHOULD give Orochimaru continued difficulty, so we'll see as time goes on.

Speaking of plot twists, am I the only one who saw Temari and Shikamaru 'pairing up' yet again? She really seems like the take charge sort of lady to be to Shikamaru what Shikamaru's mom is to his father (that is, the one that wears the pants in the family ;P )

For those who are complaining about Rock Lee not getting enough time...

Did you just all magically forget that Rock Lee has just come out of surgery?

I certainly don't want a kid, strong and determined as he is, to get out of a hospital bed, run all the way to the spot, and fight one of Orochimaru's Elite Guard, and still manage a long fight without some sort of assistance.

A one on one fight would have been terrible as in all likelihood, Lee would push himself again...and end up in the hospital...again.

well...if it happens that sealing oro's soul's arms caused oro to lose the vast majority of the jutsus he could perform and have to re-obtain them from scratch, then i'll be much happier about the whole thing. Otherwise it just seems to make no sense that he could just get his soul's arms back by taking another body

i dunno maybe he has to attach his souls armless soul to the new bodies soul in order for it too work, after all he is transfering his mind and soul into a new body so why all the sudden would he have new arms.

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Originally posted by: Mut@t@
bringing back lee as the heroic rescuer only to be saved by the one who ruined his shit in the first place is pretty pointless. i mean, leave that kid in the hospital, where he belongs. and i guess gaara will in story for longer now.

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heh, couldn't agree more

the hokage seemed like he knew what he was doing when he cut off oro's arms....considering the fact that he knew oro can perform the immortality jutsu.....
so im thinking there still has to be some sort of permanent effect that the hokage had in mind when he decided to do that

like maybe eventually the new arms will degrade and fall apart. just like the old ones.

yeah.....that would be ok
i was reading some of the older manga chapters and oro was talking about how he had to trade all his jutsus for killing the hokage....so it does sound to me like he wouldnt be able to get them back. Although for him to choose tsunade over his other option, i wonder if she can bring back his jutsus

another thing that bugs me....is lee
first they said he could never be a ninja again.....then tsunade said even if lee survives, he'll have to go through extensive rehabilitation....and then just recently it was "one day of rest"....[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]
Then he busts out the drunken fist.....which is cool and all, and DID force kimimaru to use his curse seal....but the whole thing got very anti-climactic considering how big of a deal gai was making about it...lee can still do cool stuff with gaara helping him and all, but if the translation is true that he's sobering up (in record time no less....that sake sure passed through his system hella fast) then i think its the end of the drunken fist for a while

[img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img] That was pretty lame. If sake is suppose to be pretty strong as an alcohol, wtf Lee is sobber already??? If it wasn't for Gaara, Lee would be right now dead, with a Shishkabab (jajajaja) look!. But I love every character of this anime, obviously, every 1 is aware of the fact that team 7 (Naruto, Sasuke & Sakura) they all have like an adult Character representation, very powerful. Ex. Naruto (4th), Sasuke (Itachi)... but who is the one that shall represent "Sakura the weak", "Sakura the annoying", "Sakura the spoiler of action events", "Sakura the insignificant Kunoichi" Whoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is it Akamatsuki?, Is the Tsunade-sama, will aid this poor kunoichi (and every other female ninja).
And I'm sorry, I hate Ten-ten. Why? Well, she believes she has a PhD. on Neji's moves, and even though Naruto kicked his behind and not only that he had enough chakra, for going after Sasuke, Fighting Gaara, Summoning Gamabunta, Defeting Gaara & Scaring him to Héll!!! I say this beacuse i saw a post about some saying Naruto is weak, well so far the name of the series is naruto, he will always be more powerful than any other character even more than, the pitiful avenger, Sasuke.

this guy just needed to release all of his anger in one post.

Sarutobi thought he could seal Oro's soul when he started the jutsu.
But after a half hour of trying to pull the soul out, he realized he couldn't do it.

The reason he decided to take Oro's arms was:
1) Its not like he could just cancel the jutsu, you don't tell the god of death "no deal" just because you couldn't pull out the soul. If Sarutobi just let go, he would have died.
2) Sarutobi needed to stop Oro at all costs, even temporarily. If Sarutobi didn't seal the arms, Konoha might have been destroyed (barring the possibility that Jiyara intervened).

As for why did Oro disrupted Naruto's chakra flow with a seal in the forrest:
oro realized that Naruto's kyuubi power might be a nuisance, after Naruto turned kyuubi, thats when he sealed it out. He did this not because he was afraid of Naruto even in kyuubi form, but because in that form, Naruto could inturrept the test Oro was giving to Sasuke (whether Sasuke was worthy of being possessed).

As mentioned above, it also proved that Naruto could beat some of the gennin, without his demon power, and his chakra flow being messed up.

As for Hayate's cold, he has a cold what do you care? Maybe he just was sick that day. Not everything needs a purpose.

even though in REAL LIFE events can happen (and frequently do) with or without specific intentions but be of no big deal, but generally in a story, those events (whether intentionally or not) arent really identified to the audience unless it bears some sort of significance.....sure people get colds, but can you name any movie, show, or book that specifically gives someone a disease like that with NO relevance to anything?

and yes....the way gai emphasized lee's insane drunken abilities....that was a little dissappointing for him to sober up so soon

As far as the the seal on naruto goes it served to get rid of that annoying kyuubi chakra...remember naruto has a lot of chakra on his own...he doesnt use it well to begin with...that why he dose the one justu he know that doesnt need a lot of control...just a lot of chakra (kage bunshin) we see in the fight with kiba that he lack the control he need when it took him a while to summon the chakra for the naruto rendan which i interpreted as a cause of the seal messing up his chakra flow

sandaime probally never realized that orochimaru could get use of his arms (if he indeed can) by switching bodies...so died thinking that orochimaru will need use jutsus again.

if you want insignificant plot twist look no further then the drunken boxing lee...when i first saw it i thought it was pointless and stupid and that kishimoto was just trying to destroy predictability cause i thought lees fight would go the way of neji and chouji as for lee coming back...you should have seen that coming...i felt that the extra character development on lee before this arc was for that reason...gaara saving lee was ironic...but at the same time i think kishimoto pulled that out of his ass

I think the Kimi encounters will be a LOT cooler in the anime, because we will get to see all the cool movements rather than some anbiguous still frames. I agree that it's a little underwhelming in the manga, but action doesn't often come off well on paper. Example : Lee vs Gaara ROCKED in anime, was 100x cooler than the manga version. Dialogue/Flashback seems superior in the Manga most of the time though ..

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
i dunno if you guys thought much about it.....but it kinda bugs me how kishimoto adds things into the series that seem like it would be a really big deal.....and maybe for a while it is, but then you find yourself in a wtf situation and wonder why he bothered with all that
i can think of at least 3 occurences of this.....

1) oro putting the seal on naruto
Its supposed to mess up naruto's flow of chakra with kyubi....but how did that actually impact the series in any way? I guess it got jiraiya's attention....but it seemed a little elaborate of a way to do so....naruto was still able to perform just as well in the prelims with the seal, and im sure if he actually had chakra problems, he wouldve pointed it out as anime series tend to do so.

2) gekkou hayate's cold
Rarely do you see an anime character distinctively coughing alot without there being a purpose to it. Some thought maybe he incorporates his cold with his jutsu or something weird like that. Considering that ninjas can use bugs for combat, why not germs? Yet instead he just dies and nothing more is said of it.

3) sarutobi sealing oro's arms
Ok now im sure i'll get some arguments about this one....but if all oro had to do to regain his arms was to use his immortality jutsu....sarutobi's death was completely in vain. All it did was delay him, which in itself may be enough to change the outcome of the series, but unless something big happens within the next few years that oro has to wait before performing the jutsu again, i'd be pissed. I'm sure this was all part of kishimoto's plans to have sasuke join oro without being possessed too soon, but for someone as prestigous as the hokage to sacrifice his life just to buy them 2 years or so seems kinda lame.

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give me a sec ..ill stop laughing

ok, ill try to take this post serious as i can.

Those statement you came up, you thought of it all by your self?
But why stop there? Why not just stop the whole series and go to the last chapter . Its pretty much pointless to see Naruto get beat up , Hes gonna become the HOKAGE anyway.

kshimoto perspective
character perspective
audience perspective


If you can distinguish these3 perspective then you will realize your post was pretty silly.

example:
"sarutobi sealing oro's arms"


3rd didnt know oro can nullify the seal jutsu , thats why he did it.
Kishimto obviously knew ,He did it to lead up to future chapters
For Viewer perspective, there will always be some lame parts for everyone cuz its all of matter of onpinion.

"oro putting the seal on naruto"
again
orchimaru put the seal so he can focus on sasuke
Kishimoto did it that way to lead up to future chapters where Naruto meets Jirayia
Audience perspective: blah blah blah, (read this part out loud really fast)



Hayate's Cold is unknown condition so it is taken as reflection of personality. LIke why shino wear sunglasses orto be more precise from sub character like Konohamaru's friend always have snots dripping from his nose. Is there a reason? maybe , possibly or probably.. who knows maybe those conditions will reveal it self later .

hayate's condition isn't gonna be revealed any time soon.

its ok if you feel the need to laugh hokage IV, i wouldnt expect you to really know much about the entertainment industry to give you any sort of valid perspective on my post anyway (although i dont know why it would be much funnier than the huge deal you made on other mundane details, like gamabunta's henge)

i suppose nonetheless you'd want some sort of counter-argument, in which case i'd have to lead you back to
my previous post i wrote to capsulcorp....adding details in from characters perspectives are certainly good to add, but its still the same truth that the difference between a story and the real world is that the story tends to involve only the details that in one way or another add to the story itself or the point it tries to lead to...the rest should just be accepted by the general audience without needing specific emphasis in the story (i.e. the fact that people get sick in the naruto world)

actually Mut@t@ i agree....i get the feeling that they might actually connect it somehow with that anbu girl and it will end up having some relevance after all
and if they dont do anything else with her in the series, then i'd have to add her to my list of irrelevent story elements as well

I thought that Hayate's cold is there because a cold would weaken someone and it would explain how he got so owned by that guy that killed him. Hayate is suppose to be an elite jounin right, along with Kakashi and that anbu chick?

By all accounts Oro's arms shouldn't work on the new body.

The only exception would be that the seal is on the old body and not the new, so the new body wouldn't have the same restrictions the old body had. Therefore, Oro would be able to use his arms.

It's similar to many of the hypothesis about if Naruto died, kyubi would roam the world again. Oro's old body died, therefore usage of his arms returned to the new body.

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Originally posted by: lots of people all throughout this topic
By all accounts Oro's arms shouldn't work on the new body.

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We know that Oro's forbidden jutsus use the souls of the people he kills. Is it a stretch, when he takes a new body, that he steals the soul and uses it for his own purpose? He even says, when talking to the guy whose body he nabbed that he would still be alive and that his strong personality would influence Oro because his strength of self. It seems fairly obvious to me that his arms working could be easily explained away by the large probability that he stole some souls to fill in the void.

-xtortout

im just waiting for him to go grave-digging one night and pull out the 3rd's decaying body

Not everything that ever happens needs explaining. Sometimes authors add little things in just for us to think about and make our own conclusions. Like, for example, the purple haired ANBU girl and her affilation with Hayate. We just have to make our own decision as to wether she was Hayate's lover, comrade, close friend or whatever. We'll probably never know, and probably weren't ever meant to officially know, we just have to wonder about it.

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
1) oro putting the seal on naruto
Its supposed to mess up naruto's flow of chakra with kyubi....but how did that actually impact the series in any way? I guess it got jiraiya's attention....but it seemed a little elaborate of a way to do so....naruto was still able to perform just as well in the prelims with the seal, and im sure if he actually had chakra problems, he wouldve pointed it out as anime series tend to do so.

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This was to take beserker-Naruto out of commission, not because he was a threat to Oro at that time, but just to get him out of the way because he was interupting the Sasuke/Oro battle. Also, it made Naruto unconcious for the Sound 3 attack, which allowed for Level 1 Sasuke to kick all kinds of ass and prove how evil he was, setting up the seal concept for further plot development. It wouldn't have happened the same way if Naruto was concious at that time.

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
2) gekkou hayate's cold
Rarely do you see an anime character distinctively coughing alot without there being a purpose to it. Some thought maybe he incorporates his cold with his jutsu or something weird like that. Considering that ninjas can use bugs for combat, why not germs? Yet instead he just dies and nothing more is said of it.

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More than likely, the whole coughing thing has no relevance. It's just to make his character interesting and to inspire discussion in the viewers. But people do get sick, who knows, maybe he just happened to have a cold at that time. It's possible. But I really doubt it ever had any deeper meaning.

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
3) sarutobi sealing oro's arms
Ok now im sure i'll get some arguments about this one....but if all oro had to do to regain his arms was to use his immortality jutsu....sarutobi's death was completely in vain. All it did was delay him, which in itself may be enough to change the outcome of the series, but unless something big happens within the next few years that oro has to wait before performing the jutsu again, i'd be pissed. I'm sure this was all part of kishimoto's plans to have sasuke join oro without being possessed too soon, but for someone as prestigous as the hokage to sacrifice his life just to buy them 2 years or so seems kinda lame.

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It allowed for Oro to seek Tsunade to heal him - and because Jiraiya/Naruto were looking for Tsunade at the time, it allowed the legendary 3 battle and also the brief Naruto vs Kabuto, and an opportunity for Naruto to test his new rasengan. All of this probably wouldn't have happened without the 3rd sealing Oro's arms.

raven KO'd this thread.

I doubt they're gonna reveal some big secret about Hayate's cold later on, I don't think anyone will really care by then anyways. The Anbu girl will hopefully be shown again though, and have some kind of role.

i dunno.....raven explained how the events that i mentioned extended the story, but stories need more than just a means to reach the ends.....i still find how things like the hokage sacrificing himself the way he did just as a method for tsunade to make her appearance to the series seems kinda....not very poetic......not in the least

Sealing the arms was better than nothing. It made him retreat from the invasion, didn't it? If Sarutobi had died, and Oro could still use his arms, he'd more than likely go on a killing spree.

But, he was forced to retreat. Sarutobi was dying anyway, he did what he could. Anyway, even if it is only for plot development, it's an interesting way to do it.

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
i dunno.....raven explained how the events that i mentioned extended the story, but stories need more than just a means to reach the ends.....i still find how things like the hokage sacrificing himself the way he did just as a method for tsunade to make her appearance to the series seems kinda....not very poetic......not in the least

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The Hokage's sacrifice was more than just to a way to introduce Tsunade, he was old anyways, and the fight with Oro gave him a purposeful death. He died for the village just as the 4th had. Taking the arms was the best he could do, but if Oro got his arms back now, then I could consider it a lame sacrifice.

I want to bring up a new one....

chapter 201 - page 08

Kimmimaro saying 'The reason I've yet to kill you is....' and then the wispering... which is not elaborated on. My ears perked up when I noticed him say this... but then nothing ever happened.

Tayuya is startled by what kimmimaro said... so I doubt the wisper was the next bubbles text (you still have a mission to accomplish by staying alive - not very startling)





The Oro arm thing also introduced Tsunada as a medical ninja which gave her a reason to be in the story.

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Originally posted by: KonohamaruCorps

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
i dunno.....raven explained how the events that i mentioned extended the story, but stories need more than just a means to reach the ends.....i still find how things like the hokage sacrificing himself the way he did just as a method for tsunade to make her appearance to the series seems kinda....not very poetic......not in the least

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The Hokage's sacrifice was more than just to a way to introduce Tsunade, he was old anyways, and the fight with Oro gave him a purposeful death. He died for the village just as the 4th had. Taking the arms was the best he could do, but if Oro got his arms back now, then I could consider it a lame sacrifice.

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well yeah, i wouldnt have even brought that up if he could never get his arms back.....but it seems like he can now.....which is why it'd be kinda pointless to me

Shin_naruto, didnt he end that sentence by saying that she still has a mission to accomplish? (aka. taking care of the genins)

if you read the second part of my post...

'Tayuya is startled by what kimmimaro said... so I doubt the wisper was the next bubbles text

'you still have a mission to accomplish by staying alive'



hardly something for Tayuya to be startled with...
thats my thoughts at least...

not necessarily......that sounds to me like another way of saying "if you fail this, then you're dead"