I was just thinking, chidori is supposed to cut through almost anything... but is that true of other chakra as well? Chidori is a collection of chakra in the attacter's hand, and kaiten is also pure chakra... what do you guys think would happen?
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I was just thinking, chidori is supposed to cut through almost anything... but is that true of other chakra as well? Chidori is a collection of chakra in the attacter's hand, and kaiten is also pure chakra... what do you guys think would happen?
i think kaiten would win, because since neji is spinning, it would be harder for chidori to cut through the field of chakra. UNLESS its chidori going at super gate opening taijutsu speed.
dunno, i'd expect the Kaiten to push away the chidori, since chidori is mearly a collection of chakra and the user gives it direction, where as kaiten is more of an explosion of chakra around the user.
ie. if the chidori user can't get past kaiten normally, it's not going to make a difference for them to run at them with chidori in their hand http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif
Lightning edge is moving at a much faster speed though, i think if a better person used it like kakashi it would own kaiten.
I'd say its even, with Chidori you hafta be jammn at 100 mph or something to penetrate kaiten. But if the person doing kaiten has hella chakra and spinning at 100 mph as well, itll be even. so whoevers going faster should win.
Chidori is concentrated at one single point, while Kaiten have to be spread into a semi-circular sphere. My guess would be chidori would pentrate but with a much weaker power and a lot less damage, then the chidori user would be knockback by the following spinning kaiten chakra.
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Krbadass @ Feb 2 2004, 07:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Lightning edge is moving at a much faster speed though, i think if a better person used it like kakashi it would own kaiten. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Kakashi vs Neji is not even so if u upgrade Sasuke to Kakashi then we have to upgrade Neji to Hinatas dad(forgot his name).. then Kakashi would lose.. imo..
I think Kaiten win against Chidori if it is at a even terms..
Off topic for a sec, but kakashi would RAPE hinitas dad, but lets not go onto that subject please.
I don't think the Chdiori would be able to penetrate the kaiten. Neji was able to repel Kyubi Naruto with chakra flowing around him moving at insane speeds. So I doubt a chidori would do much more.
There's NO WAY Kakashi would be able to beat Hinata's dad, Hizashi. Not to spoil or anything, but Hizashi is basically Neji * 1 million. And Neji is part of the branch house, which the moves of the main house are tought. Neji was considering a genius by figurig out only SOME of the moves from the main house. He is the head of the Hyuga, considered Konoha's best clan(Kakashi's opinion, but he should know since he ahs a sharingan, also HIzashi said so also).
You just took the words out of my mouth... I was going to say just that..
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Krbadass @ Feb 2 2004, 05:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Off topic for a sec, but kakashi would RAPE hinitas dad, but lets not go onto that subject please. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Lol. I agree.
But it depends on the user. They Don't Call Kakashi Konoho's Finest Jutsu User for nothing do they??. And people say that the Uchiha Clan was (For got what they said about them)...Heres my 2 pennys:
Kaiten:
Spining at a fast rate allowing it to parry all attacks. Must use charka from the entire body, there for it is spreaded evenly. Thus the user must be constantly spining at a continual rate inorder to parry the attack. The spining rate of the kaiten must be equal to the force of the impact and collision. Neji does not seem to have the ability to spin at such a rate to counter Sasuke's advanced level of taijutsu. Say For an example, if you had saran wrap and spread it across the table to protect something. And then you poke it with lets say a pencil. It easily rips/makes a hole. For it is weakened. But if that charka is clumped together in a ball, it becomes harder, same effect with the chidori, it becomes stronger. Same theory with the Kaiten spining what ever. As for another example, spin a cd or anything with mass continiously, and flick it. It does no damge what so ever to the object, but instead you have inflicted damge upon you self.
Chidori:
Concentrating a humongous amount of charka with the combination of taijutsu and extreme heights of speed. Thus being able to cut virtualy anything. Combining the speed of which the Chidori is initiated from and finshed, with the power of the users charka, it must exceed the rate of which the kaiten is spining, and depending of the users strenght, it might be able to penitrate the users kaiten.
-Heres the theory: A sword is launched at about 1 mph at hmm well a thin metal sheet. Nothing happends, except a small dent. Launch the Sword at 200 mph, a hole is going to be created. As for a moving target, lets say a round circular sheet of metal is being spun around at well lets say at an acceleration of 150 mph. Spining continuously. Creating an effect clost to Kaiten sping whatcha ma call it. Throwing the sword at the same speed might not do any effect, the sping metal sheet with simpily deflect it with ease. Now puting Chidori into effect, lets use something more dense/powerful as a users charka, well lets say a 100 pound spear w/ a launching speed of 400 mph (Seeing as how Sasuke seems to move at teh speed of light at some times) With the power of the spear and speed of inhuman abilitys, velocity+power=a greater peircing effect. Thus being able to penetrate kaiten.
In the end, the ability of which attack is dominate is soely depending on the user. His
Speed
Strenght
Charka, ect.
well if the byakugan/hyuuga bloodline is so damn cool, you would think neji could beat sasuke, but thats not lookin too likely
The chidori would penetrate the Kaiten, but then I think the field of chakra would rip the guy's arm off. Think of it like shoving a spear into a lawnmower blade. The tip of the spear might be really strong, but the shaft itself can be broken
So some of you are claiming that a fraction of chakra could repel a focus point of a lot of chakra??? My point is that the contact point between Kaiten and Chidori is where both body would put out chakra, but Kaiten is a fraction of the whole chakra (all the chakra have to spread out for the spin to work) and Chidori is concentrate with a lot more chakra in compare to that point of Kaiten's chakra. Yes that sounded weird but really I just don't think the spin would be fast enough to be able to "spread" that chidori damage over a large area. Remember lee's speed without weight? That's the kind of speed of Chidori, if not more, that would hit the Kaiten Chakra shield. Chidori will pentrated but some of its power should be cancel out, then the rest of the remaining "Kaiten chakra shield" would continue to spin and "catch up". All of this is just my guess though ....
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Destroyor @ Feb 2 2004, 07:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> So some of you are claiming that a fraction of chakra could repel a focus point of a lot of chakra??? My point is that the contact point between Kaiten and Chidori is where both body would put out chakra, but Kaiten is a fraction of the whole chakra (all the chakra have to spread out for the spin to work) and Chidori is concentrate with a lot more chakra in compare to that point of Kaiten's chakra. Yes that sounded weird but really I just don't think the spin would be fast enough to be able to "spread" that chidori damage over a large area. Remember lee's speed without weight? That's the kind of speed of Chidori, if not more, that would hit the Kaiten Chakra shield. Chidori will pentrated but some of its power should be cancel out, then the rest of the remaining "Kaiten chakra shield" would continue to spin and "catch up". All of this is just my guess though .... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Well yeah, the chidori will loose a % of its power. But then the motion will be stoped because neji discontinued the spin, or is forced to.
When the Kaiten was being explained Tenten said that chakra is emitted from all the holes in the body, and to do a certain Jutsu only certain holes are used and that Neji has mastered using all the holes. She didn't say it was a blood limit of the Hyuuga. I'm sure someon like Kakashi could copy it if Sasuke can't... since Kakashi is supposed to be Konoha's finest skill user.
I think the Hyuuga clan is overated. just because they didnt get some psycho in their family that killed all of them off.... I'm sure the Uchiha clan would have outdone the Hyuuga clan.
id say kakashi has an edge over nejis uncle because he is merely an average hyuga. Neji however when he grows up will be tough as hell, they said that the hyuga power flows stronger in him than anyone else, its just that hes young and hasnt progressed far enough yet.
also i dont think that chidori is the right type of counter for the heavenly spin, chidori is for hitting people or breaking through solid defenses. the appropriate counter is probably closer to high speed taijutsu(ie moving faster than the spin ala rock style.) or some other jutsu thats more designed for that sort of thing.
Also someone said that neji had no shot against sasuke, well look at it this way, in taijutsu gai said that in order for rock to be able to beat neji he would need the speed obtained by the gates, which sasuke doesnt have taijutsu wise. If sasuke were to attack long range it would more than likely be a fire attack which is easily deflected by the kaiten. as for the chidori its mean for a stationary object, ala zabuza pinned down, or gaara in his bubble. getting a direct hit to a vital area would be near impossible for the chidori. as for the sharingan it cant copy any of the bloodline techniques, and thats pretty much all the hyugas do is bloodline and abilities they can do because of the bloodline. so neji has the advantage in the matchup imo.
You know, Kyuubi-mode naruto was fast enough to get in close to Neji even though he was using the Kaiten, and Naruto only tried to stop it with Brute force, ie he made contact with Neji and then the Kaiten knocked them away because Neji couldn't start it fast enough. So if the user of Chidori has speed equal to or greater then Naruto's when he's using his Kyuubi Chakra, it seems to me that their would be a similar effect, except that instead of both getting knocked away, the user of Kaiten would have a hole in him as he got knocked away. Especially if it's someone like Kakashi, who is most likely much faster then Sasuke, Lee, or Naruto. But then again, if it's Neji's Uncle, then maybe he can start the Kaiten faster. *shrugs*
i think that the same thing is going to happen with the naruto battle, when the two chakra's meet the will cause a huge explosion and both of them will take heavy damge bc this time neiji has to release a more huge amount of chakra to puch away the chidori bc the chidori is also made of pure chakra.
About Chidori vs Kaiten.. hard to say..
about Kakashi "raping" Hisashi or whats his name is http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/smile.gif Come on, Kakashi is probably real good and all that. And even if Neji has the potential of surpassing all the Hyuugas, I very much doubt the leader of Konoha's strongest village and existing Bloodline would let himself be slappt like that by Kakashi.. Im sorry I cant see that happening. And Neji's uncle is better than Neji is now anyway and he probably knows all the things Neji does and does it better, cause he is older and a main family member with more time to practice and get advice from other main family members knowing the same skills.. While Neji have figured it out by himself he heavent been told if he does it totaly right yet.. I doubt Kakashi would go and rape any leader of any ninja village just like that..
I don't think Kaiten is a blood limit of the Hyuuga.... only the Byuakugan is the blood limit. Kaiten just chucks out chakra from all over the body so a sharingan user should be able to copy it.
Kaiten is an absolute defense. Chidori is an attack.
Break it down to be more simple, ignore the chakra
Think of it as one guy spinning around with a knife in both hands, and another guy thrusting on towards him. The guy spinning would block it and it would be deflected.
I would say that the kaiten would atleast deflect the chidori if not stop it all together.
Also, the kaiten is not a bloodlimit technique. Having the byakugan makes it possible for a Hyuga to learn it but anyone could learn it only it would be next to impossible without byakugan.
As for Kakashi vs Hiashi. Hiashi isn't the leader of the most powerful clan in Konoha for nothing. I have nothing against Kakashi but once Hiashi goes all gentle fist on his ass he's toast.
eh, I dunno...
I think that its a bloodline thing.. but then there is evidence to suggest that it might not be. EITHer way, I doubt that Sasuke can beat Neji or Kakashi compare to Hizashi for that matter...
Its not clearly stated whether you need to have mastered the gentle fist taijustu which (i think) is bloodline... or whether you can do the heavenly spin if you can learn how to emit Chakra from your body...
I've posted this cos the anime is passed this point...
I don't have this ep on my hard drive - can't quote... sorry...
http://members.optusnet.com.au/carme...to-12-2-08.png
Kaiten can be beat by chidori wif maybe this way..
Say Uncle/neji start up kaiten, then kakashi/sasuke go farther distance. then thrust foward in their fast speed. start up chidori. Jump as high as they can. fall down directly above kaiten while spinning the exact speed or more counter clockwise or the opposite of kaiten's spin. That way when chidori hits kaiten it creates a counter spin which stops kaiten and hit. YAY chidori wins.
If not then kaiten will win all the way =) HAHAHAHA
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Unidentified @ Feb 2 2004, 09:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I don't think the Chdiori would be able to penetrate the kaiten. Neji was able to repel Kyubi Naruto with chakra flowing around him moving at insane speeds. So I doubt a chidori would do much more.
There's NO WAY Kakashi would be able to beat Hinata's dad, Hizashi. Not to spoil or anything, but Hizashi is basically Neji * 1 million. And Neji is part of the branch house, which the moves of the main house are tought. Neji was considering a genius by figurig out only SOME of the moves from the main house. He is the head of the Hyuga, considered Konoha's best clan(Kakashi's opinion, but he should know since he ahs a sharingan, also HIzashi said so also). Plus you get the see Hizashi in action in the next episode or so. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
kakashi would kill YOU, your whole family, pets, etc, and the most strong and skilled hyuga. THE END.
<span style='color:blue'>chidori in my opinion has stronger focus on chakra than then kaiten but kaiten could blow away susuke.</span>
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JusDaMan @ Feb 3 2004, 04:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Kaiten can be beat by chidori wif maybe this way..
Say Uncle/neji start up kaiten, then kakashi/sasuke go farther distance. then thrust foward in their fast speed. start up chidori. Jump as high as they can. fall down directly above kaiten while spinning the exact speed or more counter clockwise or the opposite of kaiten's spin. That way when chidori hits kaiten it creates a counter spin which stops kaiten and hit. YAY chidori wins.
If not then kaiten will win all the way =) HAHAHAHA </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I don't know how to say this other than this way.
If you hit a spiining sphere from the top, you would be more effective in creating a hole because right at the highest point (along the Hyuuga axis http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif ) where the Kaiten user is positioned and if the Chidori struck there the spinning motion would have the least effect.... so the Chidori could punch through and hit the Kaiten user's head. If the user can project the chidori from his hand then that would be even better after the hole has been created.
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I don't think the Chdiori would be able to penetrate the kaiten. Neji was able to repel Kyubi Naruto with chakra flowing around him moving at insane speeds. So I doubt a chidori would do much more.
There's NO WAY Kakashi would be able to beat Hinata's dad, Hizashi. Not to spoil or anything, but Hizashi is basically Neji * 1 million. And Neji is part of the branch house, which the moves of the main house are tought. Neji was considering a genius by figurig out only SOME of the moves from the main house. He is the head of the Hyuga, considered Konoha's best clan(Kakashi's opinion, but he should know since he ahs a sharingan, also HIzashi said so also). </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
If you remember the episode correctly, you will recall that Neji was knocked back as badly as Naruto when Naruto attacked him. Therefore Neji did not repel Naruto, though his technique was damaging to Naruto.
In any case, Chidori would go through Kaiten no problem. If Naruto can punch Neji through it as shown in that episode, Chidori can too.
Hmm, I think it counts on the skill levels of chidori and kaiten users. If the chidori is excellent and the kaiten poor, then chidori goes through. But if the chidori user isn't a pro at using chidori, and the kaiten is well done, then chidori propably can't cut through it.
This is guite a lot a same guestion as: "Kick vs Dodge". If the kick is better than the dodge, it will hit. And if the dodge is better than the kick, then the kick won't hit.
So much has been already said, I don't think I want to join this fight.
I don't know if kaiten is stronger or chidori or the other way.
But i seem to recall that Kakashi said that Sasuke can't beat Neji.
Although that was at the time of the preliminary fights is still think Neji would wipe the floor with Sasuke.
So in that sense I would say that Kaiten is stronger than Chidori. And secondly Kaiten is a bloodline limit of a kind and Chidori isn't, that in itself of course doesn't necessarily say anything but it still gives us something.
And since kaiten is spinning at high speed and is chakra, it would probably change Chidori's speed and direction, making it miss. And then.... hell to Sasuke.
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (The Kyubi Naruto @ Feb 3 2004, 11:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> But i seem to recall that Kakashi said that Sasuke can't beat Sasuke. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Need some editing, but probably all true, whoever is faster will win. And i never knew kaiten was a bloodline limit http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/dry.gif
Wow ANBO Sasuke... that was very... ahhh.... thorough
Lets keep it simple and say they are equal http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif
Alot less strain on the brain that way http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/mf_gap.gif
Well I'm not sure that it's a bloodline limit.
Now that I come think about it, I think it may not be.
Kaiten could just be a very powerful jutsu that requires a SUPERB control over one's chakra. So in other words it's a kind of a bloodline limit because no one else other than hyuga are able to use it, because the needed control is so high. And only the hyuga are able to use it because they have the byakugan and they train their chakra control to the max.
So if my assumptions are correct, then Kaiten is not a bloodline limit.
BUT. If it is, then... .Even Haku was able to come up with a bloodline limit jutsu on his own. And it would seem that the Hyuga teach the Kaiten to the head family, so I think that some of the bloodline limits are suppesed to be passed down. But coming up with one themselves shows extraordinary ability.
But of course I'm only speculating. Soi don't flame me if you think otherwise. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif
interesting concepts you guys have! i would think that the whole point of the hyuga style is that they can defeat anything that contains chakra...so as much as i like chidori...i think kaiten might win
Ok this isnt Chidori Vs Kaiten but I thought instead of starting a new topic I'll put this here.
I was watching the ep again where Baki kill Hayate... and when he used his wind blade he said that it was natural for material blades to be stopped...... but nothing can stop a blade of wind... possible rival of Chidori then?
hmm...i was just thinking...well how much more effective is kaiten as compared to gaara's sand..? cause if chidori can cut through such a big packed wall of sand...im sure it can also cut through chakra...
Well, I feel like Sasuke couldnt beat Neji because in the time it takes Sasuke to charge up his attack, Neji would probably have already used 64 hands of hakke on him....As for Kakashi, he can gather the chakra much quicker...Sasuke has to increase his jutsu timing before he can beat Neji with Chidori.
i always thought kaiten would drain nejis chakra insanely, since he releases it in large amounts, you know?
but, he can repel sasukes chidori i'm sure, if he gets the time to start it up.
and that is because chakra repels other chakra in some ways...which is why naruto and neji flew away when they hit, because both their attacks were strong in releasing chakra.
kakashi could maybe beat hizashi...after all, taijutsu isnt everything, but maybe hizashi could win.
omg.. Sasuke > Neji atm. He's much faster then neji and he will pwn Neji with Chidori. period.
same goes for Kakashi > Hisashi or whatever that Hyuga dad is called. Hisashi doesn't seem to be in shape, but rather a dude that's lazying around whole day and go to the geesha's in the evening http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif and kakashi is konoha's best ninja anyways IMO (cept for hokage off course)
or something like that http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/em...ughbounce2.gif