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I really liked that twist.
and Return of the Sexy Secretary!
What the hell was this? These guys sucked in kyuubi chakra once upon the time, then they rotted in their graves until Kabuto retrieved some cell samples to clone them with the resurrection jutsu - and they still possess that borrowed kyuubi chakra? That jutsu makes less and less sense with each episode. I guess if they resurrected a long-dead millionaire whose wealth was spent by his children and childen's children a long time ago, the millionaire would still miraculously possess that already wasted wealth because this jutsu is so full of hax.
What bullshit.
Think about this: without KabutOro, Madara's war would have been crap. Think about it, they have the hardest time with Edo Tensei, not with the weak ass Zetsu clones. Releasing the Bijuu would be an option, since he can control them, but still, 7 at the same time might be overkill, even for him.
Maybe the manga adresses the Kyuubi chakra thing, but this it the (weak ass) excuse I came up with:
The Raikage mentioned Gin/Kin were in its stomach for 2 weeks, thus becomming infused with it's chakra. Maybe they were able to (to an extent) generate it themselves. Otherwise they might've spent it all while they were alive. They do somewhat make Edo Tensei plot-hole proof by letting KabotOro mention that nobody fully understands the extent of the jutsu.
The same weird stuff is going on with Naruto himself now. It is said that they only managed to seal half of Kyuubi's chakra into Naruto, because it was too much otherwise.. but wouldn't Kyuubi recover the chakra eventually?
How come the brothers could casually use the 4 items and had whiskers BEFORE being eaten by the Kyuubi in that one flashback?
Man, there was a ton of crazy shit going on in this episode.
First, the information that the Sage of the Six Paths(who people were calling a myth, but now people have no problem saying this are his treasures) had 5 mystical treasures, and that these guys have 4 of them.
Frankly, one of them is awesome. The fan that lets you create all 5 elements.
The other 3? Frankly, aren't that great. It's three treasures that all have to be used in combination in a very convoluted way in order to defeat your enemy with it. You would think one treasure that just kills your opponent would be alot more impressive.
That said, I'm sure it's no coincidence that they've introduced these three mystical treasures that can only be used if you have a lot of chakra and happen to be able to seal someone away in the middle of an arc full of enemies that you can only defeat by sealing them away. Counting down till Naruto or Bee gets their hands on these treasures...
You're making the assumption that they borrowed Kyuubi's chakra, as opposed to having been physically or mystically altered by the 2 weeks they spent in his stomach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
Okay, that feels more like a plot hole. Although it's possible they already had massive chakra. Tailed Beasts aren't the only sources of massive chakra. Kisame and the entire Uzumaki clan seem to have it as well. So it's possible they just had lots.Quote:
Originally Posted by UChessmaster
It just occurred me that these brothers and their equipment are little better than the talking ostrich. Are they even canon or was this fight filler?
It`s canon.
The funny thing is that the rope immobilized the opponent right away. Instead of cutting of the spirit and wait for them to use their most spoken word they could have just cut of their heads. They where basically just sitting there sticking their necks out. Sure that wouldn't work on zombies since they regenerate, but Ginkaku and Kinkaku could have done that.
The rope doesn`t inmobilize anyone.
That's what I was saying. 3 items that have to be used in order in very specific ways that can be ignored completely if your opponent knows how they work seems like not very amazing magical treasures compared to, say, a magically sword that totally fucking kills someone if you stab them with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TwisT
Obviously though, I am really curious what the SotSP's 5th treasure is. Since it's the only one their holding back I assume that it's awesome.
That gourd sealing system clearly isn't meant to be used against normal ninja in a normal fight. It's far too bizarre for that, just like you said ealier. It's like from some children's fairy tale instead, seemingly serving no other purpose but to advance the plot in a specific way. The only explanation is that it's meant for enemies that are impossible to kill by any reasonable, ordinary means for whatever reason. That the wacko brothers used it like that, against normal ninja, is but a testament to their general lunacy.
they probably get their jollies from sealing people instead of just killing them
The only use I could see the Sage of the Six Paths having for it would be sealing something like the 10-Tails.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
Like he used his Planetary Devastation to bind the 10-Tails body up inside the moon, then used this complicated mess of magic items to pull it's chakra out and seal it away before using it to become the first Jinchuuriki.
If all the Edo Tensei zombies have unlimited chakra, why does it matter this one guy has Jinchuuriki mode 1 capability?
Because all the other zombies can`t go Junchuuriki mode.... except for the zombie Bijuu maybe?
Yeah but isn't the advantage of Jinchuuriki mode supposed to be increased speed, power, healing, attack, defense etc which all depend on enormous amount of chakra that a bijuu gives a 'normal' living person? If you are undead and have access to a bottomless well of chakra anyway that shouldn't matter should it?
Do you actually have unlimited chakra as a zombie? Or is it just that you regenerate all that chakra each time you get revived?Quote:
Originally Posted by DB_Hunter
Regular zombies can`t use their theorically infinite chakra to increase their speed, power, attack OR defense bijuu style. They can just spam the techniques they had in their previous life.Quote:
Originally Posted by DB_Hunter
In RPG language: Having infinite mana doesn`t means you can use every spell.
Fair point. But these are extraordinary fighters that have been brought back so should know at least a couple of deadly techniques each which even if spammed would cause major problems. If someone like Gai or Kakashi were summoned as Edo Tensei zombies then I would worry about them more than some guy with a power upgrade.
But then I guess there are not many Gai and Kakashi level fighters around.
Yeah, where are you guys getting that the zombies have unlimited chakra?Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
They can regenerate their physical selves if damaged pretty quickly so it wouldn't be too far a jump to assume they can regenerate their chakra the same way.
That seems like a pretty large assumption to make. Physical damage and spiritual energy are two fairly diverse concepts.Quote:
Originally Posted by DB_Hunter
In my opinion they can't have more chakra than the sacrifice provides. Where would anything beyond that come from? Surely not from Kabuto running a hundred zombies at the same time. And certainly not from the mockery of dead spirits the zombies represent. I bet if you kept destroying the body countless times, the regeneration alone would cause the thing to run out of juice and disappear into thin air.
Otherwise the fricking jutsu would be a perpetual motion machine in addition to everything else haxored.
The zombies take critical hits like getting their limbs chopped off yet as soon as they regenerate they show no signs of fatigue or slowing down. Now their chakra whilst being spiritual energy has to have some sort of relationship with their physical being, it can't exist as an abstract. So if you for arguments sake completely destroyed an Edo Tensei zombie there would be nothing left of him until he regenerates. If his chakra is seperate and detached from the physical body then where is it now stored whilst the body comes back together again?
It can't be dependent on the hosts chakra either, as the people being summoned back are some of the biggest bad asses in history and thus capable of using jutsu that use huge amounts of chakra (like Kinkakku and Ginkakku). They would have used up the hosts chakra in an instant if that was the source, especially with their special weapons. It can't be Kabuto's chakra either, as then the Edo Tensei would be like a Kage Bunshin type jutsu where the user splits his chakra up amongst his clones. As we have seen only Naruto is able to make mass clones due to his huge chakra reserves. Even then he is making copies of himself, not Kage level ninja's with magical weapons etc.
The only place the chakra could be coming from is the zombies themselves and like their physical bodies it must be constantly regenerating. As for the perpetual motion machine problem - this is Naruto, normal physics stopped applying a long time ago.
I think I said it in an earlier thread already, but for now I will believe the chakra indeed comes from the sacrifice - but with a twist. I reckon burning the soul and body like that might allow the zombie to use far more chakra than a living human could pump out of his system in a limited time. Naturally it annihilates the victim in the process. Think of it like using a lifetime's worth of chakra in a moment.
Completely destroying the zombie should be very detrimental since these guys have that control kunai embedded into them. One would think removing it (or removing the body from around it) would equal to removing a system disk from a computer... So, I think the question of what would happen with the spirit/body in that case is not relevant.
This has been argued before and frankly it can't possibly be the case. There's no way characters like Zeku and Rin possessed the chakra reserves to be using the kinds of techniques the 1st and 2nd Hokages were using against the 3rd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
Seems to me the spirits themselves provide the chakra. Chakra is essentially spiritual energy, and Edo Tensei is binding their actual spirits to physical forms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
The closest thing the series has to ghosts so far(Naruto's mother and father) were made by implanting him with chakra.
So I believe that as long as the spirit is in a body, it will produce chakra, which is what powers the zombie's techniques just as it did when they were alive. So they'd have the exact same chakra levels as they did when they were still alive.
I don't see why that has to be the case. It's not like any of these battles are lasting a super long time where they should be running out already.Quote:
Originally Posted by DB_Hunter
But if the bodies regenerate to inifinity, why can`t chakra, theorically speaking do the exact same thing?
There's no reason they can't. There's just nothing that suggests that they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by UChessmaster
Chakra is created through a combination of physical energy and spiritual energy. We know their bodies regenerate, but we don't know that their spirits do, so there's no reason to assume that they have any more chakra now then they did when they were alive.
If the zombie body could generate chakra, in addition to the uber regeneration, Orochimaru would have turned himself into a zombie, just without external control, a long time ago. Because it would mean simple immortality without the hassle of a body transfer.
Yeah but he would need someone to summon him, which isn't exactly free control is it.
As for chakra, I'm sure waaay back at the start of Naruto Kakashi explained that chakra once depleted is replenished by rest/sleep and eating - both which are needs of the physical body. If you are undead you don't need rest/sleep or food which means their chakra would just be there.
Rest does not always mean sleeping though.Quote:
Originally Posted by DB_Hunter
I know there's been several times in the series where a character claimed to be "completely out of chakra", yet the fight continued for awhile, and then, later on, the character would use another jutsu anyway. Which gives the impression that chakra will recover on it's own if you just stop using it for awhile.
Basically what it comes down to is, while I agree zombies probably have unlimited physical energy, chakra also requires spiritual energy as well. So until the give some indication that that is also constantly regenerating, I'm not willing to assume the zombies have unlimited chakra.
Summon another zombie first, remove it's free will, teach them Edo Tensei, and give them very specific commands to bring you back and leave you with your own free will, then dismiss the original zombie so it can't be used to undo the technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by DB_Hunter