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Originally Posted by Marik
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GoGoAnime - http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=to...nfo&tid=123849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marik
Once again Buggy is making this arc into an embarrassment.
I liked Hannyabal's enthusiasm. It serves as a nice reminder that, even though the guards are antagonists to Luffy, most of them are there to make the world a safer place. Then Blackbeard shows up to challenge Hannyabal's suggestion of a dichotomy between the two.
That is...not a great place for Blackbeard to be.
I know he's badass and all, but the entire team of escapees is there.
Not much actually happened this episode though.
[yibis] One Piece 446 [720p] [94787732].mkv
[yibis] One Piece 446 [400p] [7F7A516D].avi
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I want to see more of this Olive. <3
True, that and the sub par animation quality are really making these last few episodes annoying to watchQuote:
Originally Posted by Assertn
But it can't be helped, they need to "fillerize" these episodes a little since they're getting too close to the manga and the epicness of what's to come needs them to lighten their budget for these less important episodes
If they wanted to add filler, maybe they could do it to some of these actual battles. They barely even showed Ivan vs. the bondage chick fighting.
Like the Blueno vs. Luffy battle was some of the best example of filler ever. They stretched out that first usage of Second Gear beyond two attack, and it was one of the most awesome scenes in the anime.
They stretched out the fight with the 3 guardian beasts. The power-rangersesque group of newkama that tried frantically to beat them for 10 minutes weren't in the manga. Instead the beasts showed up and were instantly mowed down by Luffy and the schichibukai.
The problem with stretched fights is that they shake the real power levels. Somebody who should be beaten in a matter of seconds will take minutes of repeated efforts to mow down. Of course it's not always a bad thing but often it cheapens the heroes.
I love characters that get built up only to be knocked down instantly. It keeps the viewing audience on their toes.
Oh yeah, i loved it when kishimoto pulled that shit off with Itachi...Quote:
Originally Posted by Assertn
/sarcasm
You must love this arc then because so far, out of all the staff at Impel Down, Magellan seems to be the only one that's a credible threat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Assertn
Kind of makes all the time spent on them seem pointless. They spend the majority of the arc introducing these characters, only to have them steamrolled on the way out.
It's not pointless at all even if it happens. Only a stupid story would make the world so equal and fair that when the main characters get stronger, they only meet stronger and stronger adversaries as well. People need to be as strong as would be reasonable to expect due to the setting and circumstances. Impel Down is filled with seastone so in theory normal people should be able to handle things. However, they have a few tougher staffers looking after things as well. Any more than that might be improbable because only a person with a special sort of mindset would want to work and live in a place that dreary. Most would use their skills and abilities to find better jobs and opportunities elsewhere, for sure.
A character's worth doesn't lie solely on his fighting prowess. So, saying developing characters that won't last for two eps at minimum against monsters like Luffy is like saying they shouldn't have included Nami in the crew at all.
Actually, the only thing I regret about the characters in this arc, is that we see hundreds of prisoners, yet the only ones who seem to have any devil fruit ability (or any real fighting power, for that matter), are the prisoners we've known since before this arc, and then the new major characters. But technically, ANY prisoner from say, level 4, should be stronger than Bon Clay, Buggy, and Mr. 3.
However, I love seeing people wig out when Luffy effortlessly defeats an overhyped character.
And only a boring story would have characters become stronger than 99% of the people in the world, and still constantly throw those weaker people in their path 99% of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
I was under the impression that the whole reason that Luffy freeing up these former characters of increasing strength on his way down was so that, on his way out, his escape crew would be ordered by strength just like his normal crew, and each character would end up facing a different member of the staff that is the appropriate strength. Just like ever other One Piece arc ever.
Instead, Luffy, Croc, Jin and Iva are obliterating everyone while the other characters are just following behind doing nothing.
You mean just like the pre-grandline arcs, which were so cookie-cutter it was painful.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthEnder
Luffy and co. one shotting everything is better... how?Quote:
Originally Posted by Assertn
Impel Down isn't even the meat of this arc. These guys are just what are standing in the way of whats to come: Luffy chasing Ace to Marine Ford. Do you think that they will be simply obliterating everything they come into contact with when/if they reach their goal? Plus, even right now with Blackbeard. I imagine Blackbeard alone wouldn't be able to take on Luffy/Croc/Jimbei, but he has his entire crew there as well. So its not like there are no challenges for them in Impel Down, and its not like this arc will have no challenges for Luffy's group.
Because it'd be lame if Luffy could singlehandedly defeat 2 schichibukai, the god Enel, and the main CP9 guy, yet struggle against a bunch of jail guards. Having the schichibukai outclassed by guards would be lame too... they're supposed to be strong enough to represent one of the triad balance of powers in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by UChessmaster
Contriving villains of incremental strength is one of the biggest shounen cliches that have been played to death, and, more often than not, receive a rather bitter response from an increasingly disbelieving audience. I don't understand how you could broadly prefer that. Don't worry your little self, though, there are still plenty of people in the One Piece world that would give Luffy a run for his money if he confronted them in person.
Impel down has been hyped by the anime/manga itself for eons by now, amount of worth challenges = 2, yet you`re fine with this?
I`m not saying they should outclass the shichibukai, but SOME worthy challenges from the hellish prison for our friends wouldn`t be bad.
Dragon Ball Z gave me enough of the alternative, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Assertn
Also, people need to take into account the people who are breaking out here. Impel Down has been hyped up. If it was just Luffy, he would have gotten defeated just like what happened when he tried to break in. But now, its not just Luffy. Its Luffy, and two Shichibukai. And a two high ranking people from the Revolutionary Army. And many prisonners released from level 4 (and 5?). And people on those two levels have bounties higher than most of the Strawhats. Impel Down has been hyped up as the place where all the worst villains in the world end up when they are captured, right? So what logically happens if the worst villains in the world all end up trying to stage a break out?
We`re just gonna run around in circles here, you say the prisioners are strong and i say the guards should be strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentenal
You probably missed my earlier post, but let me ask you this directly: If you were a badass fighter with strange powers, would you like to spend your days and nights (since it's so isolated) in a damp, smelly, scum filled, boring (since nothing ever happens there, except right now), dreary, and in every way unwelcoming prison guarding a bunch of hoodlums that do nothing but throw insults at you? Or would you like to seek opportunities in the vast world offering any kinds of environments, challenges, and luxuries and where strong people are always needed (and thus well paid) by many different factions you could choose from.Quote:
Originally Posted by UChessmaster
You must really like depressing places if you chose the prison. Fortunately Oda thinks otherwise and thus the major people among the guards are just the kind of rare weirdos that would want to spend their time there. The rest are nonconsequential grunts in the world government service who don't possess any special skills that would allow them to pick their work places better - and so I'd assume most of them are only waiting for a transfer to a nicer place.
The Guards are strong. Without Luffy/Croc/Jimbei, the 3 Demon Guards, and all the other people Impel Down has guarding it, would have put down the revolt fairly easy. Its just that they aren't strong enough to beat Luffy/Croc/Jimbei. Is that so hard to accept? The Shichibukai are one of the 3 Great Powers in One Piece. If the World Government had multiple people in Impel Down capable of being on par with the Shichibukai, then that would really cheap the importance of the Shichibukai.Quote:
Originally Posted by UChessmaster
Level 2 proved to be more than enough for Buggy an Mr. 3.
Level 4 proved to be more than enough for Luffy and Mr. 2.
Level 6 proved to be more than enough for Luffy, Ivankov, and inazuma.
Honestly everyone is shocked by how Luffy got this far, but once the big guns came out and the riots break out at level 2, level 4, and the main entrance simultaneously, you have to presume that its all downhill from there. Do you think any prison in the real world can contain a riot of the combined force of all its prisoners?
Edit: Plus, I still think The Great Gaol lived up to its name. It took a series of lucky breaks to get Luffy to where he is now. By all accounts, he shouldn't have even found his way past level 1, let alone survive Magellan's wrath. This is the falling-action phase of the arc, and is mostly setting up for something far greater.
As pointed out, the security at Impel Down is realistically as good as it could get. Any other day, even this level of riot could could have been easily contained by the forces at Marinford right next door. However, the timing couldn't be worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Assertn
I am not sure what kind of enemies some people are expecting Luffy to run into. This prison, along with Magellan and his lackeys would be enough to keep even the strongest criminals in captivity, as long as they didn't all break out at the same time.
Also, why would anyone expect Luffy to end up fighting the strongest criminals one by one. Unless Luffy freed them himself for the challenge, they should still be locked away.
We're not talking about regular guards though. We're talking about the officers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Assertn
The people who the World Government deems powerful enough to stand between the most powerful criminals on the planet and the rest of the world. Magellan seems qualified, and Shiryu probably was as well. But nobody else seems qualified.
Which, I guess, is why this is happening now. The WG put underpowered people in charge of keeping the most dangerous place in the world sealed up tight, and now all these villains are going to get free because of it.
End of the day, the staff of Impel Down wouldn't even be able to contain two Level 6 prisoners escaping simultaneously. Because Magellan would only be able to fight one while the other would end up soloing the entire rest of the facility.
Perhaps it wouldn't be as much of an issue if it WERE a refreshing change of pace. Unfortunately, the Impel Down arc directly follows the Amazon Lilly arc, where Luffy ALSO completely outclassed every threat thrown at him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Assertn
I'd say the 3 Demon Guards are qualified to deal with all but the most ridiculous prisoners, which is all you should expect.Quote:
The people who the World Government deems powerful enough to stand between the most powerful criminals on the planet and the rest of the world. Magellan seems qualified, and Shiryu probably was as well. But nobody else seems qualified.
Since Level 6 Prisoners include people like the Shichibukai, and people dangerous enough to have been erased from history, so... Uhhh, no shit? Do you really expect Impel Down to have enough power to rival one of the 3 Great Powers?Quote:
End of the day, the staff of Impel Down wouldn't even be able to contain two Level 6 prisoners escaping simultaneously. Because Magellan would only be able to fight one while the other would end up soloing the entire rest of the facility.
Also, who is to say that Magellen couldn't take on two at the same time?
Luffy was closer to dying in this arc than ever before, because of Magellan. How can you say he's outclassed every threat? Perhaps your complain should more specifically be tailored to "Unfortunately, Luffy has yet to be weaker than, yet not so much that he doesn't stand a fighting chance against, another villain since before Amazon Lily." Although even then, the marines showed up and mopped the floor with the strawhat crew back in the Shabondy Archipelago arc.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthEnder
Anyway, I don't know how it could be any more ironic for someone to honestly watch a shonen and say, "it sure would be refreshing if there was more of a convenient, tier-bracketed 1v1 battle structure in this arc."
I can't really understand the reason behind all these complaints.
You guys honestly wants Luffy to have a hard time dealing with grunts and a few low rank jail wardens? I mean, Ace is being shipped to be executed and there's also the whole Shichibukai and Admiral preparing to fight White Beard's crew.
I'd imagine it would be easy for Oda to make these guys seem strong so he can stretch this arc out longer and make more money from it. I mean having the heroes spend a ton of time fighting unimportant grunts is the typical shounen stretch. Thankfully he's a better author than that, so we can skip through this nonsense and watch the real action.
Impel Down IS a rather formidable prison.
The most dangerous prisoners and therefore the most likely to escape is kept on the bottom floor deep below sea level. All fruit users are chained with sea stones so they are essentially useless unless they somehow manage to collaborate with other prisoners and have themselves be freed. This isn't like a standard prison where prisoners can go out of their cells and do what they want. Everyone on level 6 is kept locked up 24/7 so the chances of multiple gathering together and planning an escape is unlikely.
Magellan fruit is poison and that by it's nature just scream being able to fight multiple opponents and disable them rather easily. The levels are separated by only one entrance or exit with the wardens being in complete control of the elevator. The prison is surrounded by the calm belt and require the prisoners to commandeer a marine ship to safely escape. The Marine HQ is nearby and is able to send aid if necessary. The chances of someone gathering enough people, planing, escaping, stealing a marine ship and getting away all before the Marine HQ can be notified is extremely low.
The reason why Impel Down is so fearsome is because its very design makes it extremely difficult to escape from.
The only reason why Luffy was successful so far was because he's lucky to have been found by Inazuma. He's also happens to be the son of Dragon or the Okama wouldn't have lift a finger to help him attempt such a crazy rescue. Luffy attempt to rescue Ace is the reason why Jinbei and Crocodile went with him. It's impossible to find another person that is as connected as Luffy to where he can influences all these power people to help his cause. There's also fact that since the Marine main focus is White Beard right now and Ace execution is top priority. Magellan personally escorting Ace out while riots are breaking out is proof of this.
I honestly doubt that a large group of criminals from level 6 might be half as successful as Luffy so far.
I don't know why Jinbei was rotting in the prison but I'm pretty sure Crocodile is exceedingly happy to simply have a chance to escape. Beats sitting there chained to the wall, subjected to random torture, powerlessly waiting for his execution million to one, even if they failed. Furthermore, I have no doubt he plans to betray Luffy if any chance whatsoever appears that wouldn't endanger his own escape.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Dragon
No extra motives to "help Luffy" needed.
I would agree, but if you look back at the manga cover pages for miss golden week mini-story. Crocodile had the chance to escape before they even reached Impel Down, but he declined and chose to stay in prison. I would say that he was bored with the world since he plot failed and the only reason he's interested now was because of White Beard. With that in mind, it's probably safe to assume the only reason he decide to escape was because Luffy informed him about his plans rescue Ace and that gives Crocodile a shot at White Beard. You can argue that Luffy trying to save Ace gives Crocodile a reason to leave Impel Down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
Luffy hasn't beaten a real villain on his own since Lucci. The defeat of Moria was far from convincing and then there was Kuma, Sentoumaru, Kizaru and now Magellan. Which one of these has Luffy 'outclassed'? And now he is about to charge into Marineford where his enemies will only get stronger? For Luffy, breaking in and out of Impel Down has all been about luck, not strength. If anything, the last couple of arcs have pointed out how weak he is in the grand scheme of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthEnder
Personally I am quite alright with him being able to easily disponse of weak enemies while still struggling against the stronger ones. Given what he has already accomplished, I would be dissappointed if he had nothing to show for it and couldnt outclass some of the less formidable folks.
How is that? A brutally battered Luffy still managed to beat Moria's Shadow Asgard with relative easeQuote:
Originally Posted by Splash!
My personal opinion is that Moria screwed up with the Shadow Asgard. He let the emotions get the better of him and sucked in too many shadows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Archangel
Edit: Also the Moria battle involved teamwork from the strawhats, in contrast to the Lucci and Enel battles. It doesn't count for Luffy as beating someone 'on his own'.
Because I've said "except Magellan" like 8 times in this conversation already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Assertn
Except that there shouldn't BE any low rank jail wardens in a place like Impel Down. It's not some prison in some backwater island. It's the World Government's insane hell dungeon for mass murderers with army obliterating magic powers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Dragon
Getting too fuul of himself was his own mistake, being an idiot counts as a power down as much as any other factorQuote:
Originally Posted by Splash!
They used teamwork against Oz, not against Moria. Moria was beaten by an already shadow discharged, twice geared and insanely beaten down Luffy
Moria's battle WAS from the inside of Oz. Once Oz was defeated, there was only Shadow Asgard and the knockout punch. At this point Moria had already sustained heavy damage from nightmare Luffy's assault on Oz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Archangel
I am not saying Moria deserved to win that battle. He had it coming for being an idiot and underestimating Luffy. I just don't think it was the same as the single handed ass whooping Luffy delivered to Lucci, Enel (Ok in this case, Luffy had the advantage on a technicality, but he still handled the situation on his own) and Crocodile.
So basically what you're saying is that Moria's defeat wasn't as decisive as the ones suffered by Luffy's other main foes because there were too many variables?
If so, i agree, but despite that i still consider that battle as Luffy's clear victory
Right. As I said:Quote:
Originally Posted by Archangel
Factoring in Nightmare Luffy and the strawhat's previous engagement of Oz, I would not count this as a victory by his own means. I guess the choice of words was a bit strong. Moria's defeat was not so much 'far from convincing' as it was 'not as convincing'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash!
What's the difference? Moria was using Oz and shadows (other people's powers) all the time. It's not like he would have been alone like Enel or Lucci, for example.
So you think Impel Down should be staffed by people with the power of Marine Admirals. Or maybe just Vice Admirals? Do you not see how impractical that is?Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthEnder
Well, considering the alternative, which is what's happening RIGHT NOW, it probably wouldn't have been impractical at all in the grand scheme of things.
I guess my main complaint is the time spent introducing characters like Saldeath and Sadie feels wasted if they aren't gable to do anything.
I kinda felt that way about the other demon guards. They didn't actually affect anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthEnder
But at the same time I like that I can't predict what Oda plans to do with the characters he introduces.
Well, Minotauros at least took a combined attack from 4 main characters to put him down.
Oh, that reminds me, I don't remember Luffy shrinking after he used 3rd Gear to down that Demon Guard...