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I think the manga artist jumping the shark.
That little brat learning a kage level technique?
Pain being able to single handily destroy one of the strongest Ninja Villages?
If Pain by himself is so powerful, why didn't Akatsuki take over the world years ago with brute force? Why are they bothering to capture the tailed-beasts or go through their ridiculously elaborate plan to take over the world?
There seems to be a pretty big plot hole.
1) What, sage chakra? Big deal? Kakashi already stated that Naruto surpassed him, and will surpass the 4th. The young inherit the world etc etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsuleCorpJX
2) Pain also shortens his lifespan in doing so. Sounds like a big sacrifice from a self-proclaimed god. I don't think he wants to just destroy everything. We don't really know the true purpose of Akatsuki yet, because everyone has a different explanation of what Akatsuki is doing.
3) This would only be similar to jumping the shark if Fonz failed the jump and was devoured by the shark.
I think he meant, Konohamaru using Rasengan. Which indeed was, very lame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Assertn
Which is NOT a Kage level technique. It was simply developed by a Hokage, and it's merely the first step of a more advanced technique. It's around the same level as the Chidori, and Sasuke did that when he was quite young. In fact, when you get down to it, Chidori is probably harder than Rasengan. And since the start of the series, lineage has been quite important and relevant... Konohamaru benefits from that. People throw things like "plot hole" and "jump the shark" around too easily without putting too much thought into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marik
At the moment it's hard to perceive because we've seen Konohamaru since he was little, and that's our current perspective. But if he were just introduced, did a Rasengan, and then introduced himself as the Third's grandson, we would be thinking he's a badass.
He's around the same age that Naruto was when he did it, and then you consider that he's been practicing it for about 3 years. He benefits a ton from Naruto's little trick, which isn't without consequences as he needed to use a Kagebunshin to do it... wasting chakra.
It's not a waste of chakra to use Kage Bunshin to do a Rasengan, especially for Konohamaru. He probably has a ton of chakra anyway, so splitting it up into clones is a good idea.
Let them jump the shark all they want.
I tire of Akatsuki, and the eventual Pain-Naruto faceoff will be filled to the seams with Naruto getting his ass handed to him coupled with the same old sentimental flashbacks of "the Will of Fire" and his "ninja way" helping him pull through in the end to render Pain some OMGWTFBBQ defeat.
Seriously, you know that this is how it always goes down in every arc. I don't need to have Sharingan eyes to see where this is going. So my question is: who isn't hoping they jump the shark a little faster, and why not?
I'm ready to see what comes after Akatsuki and Sasuke. Kishimoto isn't going to be around forever.
It's not wether it was a good idea or not... but at his level, what he needs to accomplish a Rasengan could be quite costly as the fight progresses. Someone more experienced that needs not to do a Kagebunshin to do it is in a way better position. That's all I meant by it, that there are consequences; he earns a powerful jutsu but sacrificing quite a good chunk of chakra to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by poopdeville
tons of chackra?Quote:
Originally Posted by poopdeville
Konohamaru?
a 12 years old, who so far, has shown us nothing special about him?
Kakashi never had more than two clones in the same time (actually, I think he only uses one clone at a time), and event then, he hardly makes the clone do a special move.
so Konhamaru is a-ok?
Konhamaru, while hokage (gentic) material (people who have used the rasengan so far are hokage material), didn't come off to anyone as a serious ninja. last times we saw him he was playing crappy ninja with crappy naruto and hanging out with his crap friends. he didn't look any sort of prodigy and has done nothing to imply he was 'gifted' in something.
he was a person who believed in Naruto and followed in his footsteps. I could accept it if Konohamaru fought of a random evilninja, but taking out one of payne's bodies? a feat that was cost Kakashi and Jiraya their lives? excuse if I don't see the point. especially now that all payne's bodies are dead.
also. Bud. I went through the Rasengan arc a few days ago, other than it being called an OMG-jutsu by Jiraya and tsunade, even Orochimaru decides to Kill Naruto (rather than go after Jiraya or Tsunade) when he sees that Naruto can manage the rasengan.
I seriously liked it better before rasengan became the series Kawabara. next week, Kiba's dog can do rasengan.
I stopped reading here, Naruto was 12 when he did rasengan as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Death BOO Z
And then i kept reading.
Kakashi has below below BELOW chakra, alrady stated a gazillion times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Death BOO Z
You mean when he was 8? yeah i agree, he should be biting freaking heads off already, like naru... oh wait, LIKE SASU... nvm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Death BOO Z
Whatever made you think that pain is dead?Quote:
Originally Posted by Death BOO Z
You guys are trying to hard to prove konohamaru making rasengan makes no sense, he didnt found a way to make rasengan or kagebunshin, naruto babysit him through both techniques, it`s seriously not so surprising.
Kakashi made loads of Kage Bunshins at the end of the Zabuza arc, so thats not an issue.
The issue is that Konohamaru has shown no special ability or aptitude thus far. Naruto had a demon fox in him, plus he was traumatised as a kid because he was shunned thus giving him the determination to better his life and be acknowledged.
Sasuke was a genius, this was a gift he had and he showed it time and again. This was not because he was an Uchiha, this was something particular to him that happened to be shared (if not suprassed) by his brother Itachi.
Konohamaru has shown zero ability thus far, and now we suddenly find he is almost on par with Naruto for no special reason. I'm sorry, but Konohamaru's powerup does not make sense.
So, I take it that Konohamaru has been given enough screen time for us to assess what he should be or shouldn't be capable of? Please... we've only seen him when he's goofying around. Naruto would seem just as useless if that was the case.
That's the point. He has been treated as a minor character so far, so he shouldn't be given a major powerup out of the blue.
Well, I mean his tutor is supposed to be one of the best in Konoha, so he's probably not a shit ninja.Quote:
Originally Posted by DB_Hunter
I knew someone was going to bring up the bridge fight...
go back, re-read that chapter,(33) and tell me if you think that Kakashi really spew out tens of shadow clones. maybe check out the "it might fool them" comment?
now for more, senseless, pointless, explanations of what I meant.
Kakashi doesn't have low chackra in general, if he fights without the sharinan\chidori then he can go on and on. his problem is that he spends more chackra than others to use the sharingan, which shortens the time he can fight in his strongest mode. (sort of refference :ch18,p18-19)
no matter the heritage or training, jumping from goofed up boy to master-ninja warrior is a big leap, and really poorly done.
So now Konohamaru is a master-ninja warrior just because he's able to do two techniques that Naruto was teaching him how to do 3-4 years ago?
Yeah, but his teacher didn't know shit about Rasengan from what we have seen. Secondly, people like Ino have been taught by a top Jounin in the village - I wouldn't consider her to be anything but a shit ninja.
yep, anyone who can do the rasengan is 'high-grade' ninja in my book.
also, Konohamaru did better in the fight against Payne than other six ninjas did, including his jounin instructor.
and other than that, what was the point of it all?
it didn't matter, because payne called back his bodies and killed them himself. just useless padding, like how Kubo does it in bleach.
The more ninjas in Konoha who can do Rasengan, the merrier. They need better ninjas because Chouji's clan is total ass, letting Kakashi die like it's Tuesday.
Does Chouji's clan even have an A game? I ask because they almost never bring it. They make Konohamaru look good.
And we`re to assume he`s being doing nothing this past 3 (THREE) years? one the first thing people expected when the time skip ocurred is for everyone to come with new/improved techniques. But Konohamaru can`t posibbly COPY someone else because... ???Quote:
Originally Posted by DB_Hunter
*sigh*
What exactly is the problem again? i`m going to re-explain...
A) Konohamaru is the right age to learn rasengan. (check)
B) Didn`t need to find a way to do it as he just followed a script made by naruto (check)
C) Comes from a good family thus is expected to be above average at least. (check)
Repeat after me: Doing Rasengan the 4th`s way is hard, doing Rasengan the Naruto way is easy.
While I'm not a fan of Konohamaru's debut fight being against a Pein body I think it makes sense that he could learn the Rasengan. Naruto was able to do it relatively quickly based on some explanations and demonstrations from Jiraiya. It wouldn't have taken that long for Naruto to pass that same information along to Konohamaru and maybe show him a few times, after which Konohamaru could have practiced at his leisure for all the years of the time skip. As someone pointed out already, Ebisu was Konohamaru's teacher since he was a kid and I doubt he would have let him slack on fundamentals like chakra control.
What DOES bother me about the outcome of the fight is that Konohamaru managed to hit Pain in the first place. One would assume Pain's bodies are all skilled enough to go toe to toe with jounin and should thus be very fast and quick reacting. I don't know if I like the implication that a genin has enough speed or stealth to get that close to a Pein level entity without being detected. I could buy the underestimating the kid angle if it was just Pain and Konohamaru out in the middle of nowhere but in the middle of a hostile village you'd think Pain would be more on guard against suprise attacks from hidden enemies.
The Third wouldn't have hired a Teacher-Nin (who specializes in Hokage-level potential) if he didn't think Konohamaru had talent.Quote:
Originally Posted by DB_Hunter
Also, he's not on-par with Naruto.
Isn't jumping the shark a good thing? I can't see why it would be good to not jump and run into the shark.
:confused:
I see, you are the funny man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idealistic
Ok, funny guy. Tell me a joke.
I'm also pretty funny (or at least I like to believe so)..
and since we won't be getting a chapter this week, so here's my opinions on jumping the shark.
obviously, the shark is Kisame, and jumping him is bad, since he is the akatsuki member that has survived the longest so far. and avoiding telling his story is jumping the plot forward and skipping all the good parts about the soon-to-turn-good akatsuki member.
It's not a waste of chakra to use Kage Bunshin to do a Rasengan, especially for Konohamaru. He probably has a ton of chakra anyway, so splitting it up into clones is a good idea.
you've got to take the hat down for the spam-generators...
if this thread was longer, it wouldn't have been so bluntly obvious...