Gundam 00 Episode 23 by WANG
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Gundam 00 Episode 23 by WANG
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wtf? is the episode even out yet?
EDIT: It works!!! download is slow so i have only seen a snippet... of SOMETHING AWESOME!!!!!!
Heres something thats AWESOME:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiHsxQJ9ZOo
EDIT: i put it on top to say that the sub is pretty good, i think it might be better than Nyoro'n
Actually... after watching the episode... I must say... i didn't think THAT would happen. don't read ahead because of huge spoilers
So, Trans-Am is time limited and gives them a huge downgrade after use. its fair, doesn't change the balance of battle too much (it basically works only once against an enemy).
Also, i liked the new weapons (Kyrios getting Virtue firepower!)... too bad they were destroyed so fast.
but the main thing... Ali Vs Lockon! and Lockon was actually winning! i think this was the second best fight so far in the series. And, dying on top of a giant gun while killing your worst enemy (i know... he isn't dead but still) is a pretty badass way to go.
AWESOME ep indeed.
Lol, I liked that they copied Menclave's font and the subs were definitely watchable thoughI noticed a couple tiny mistakes like Captain instead of Colonel.
-------------------------EPISODE CONTENT BELOW--------------------------------------------
LOCKON!!!! That was definitely a Mwu/Burning level death, but what a fight leading up to it, Lockon pulled out some Freedom-esque moves and all Ali really did was run away. I've noticed that his fighting strategy is basically pester the pilot, then just defend and look for a weakness to exploit as the pilot becomes unsettled. It's cheap, but clearly effective and perfect for his evil nefarious character. And fuck Daryl for trying to be important.
I also loved how much this ep reaked of other Gundam series.
Kyrios's Tail Booster = M100 Balena Cannons from Gundam SEED
GN Armor = RX-78GP03 Dendrobium Orchis from Gundam 0083
Virtue's new gun = Twin Buster Rifle from Gundam Wing
And it's funny how so much of the new equipment managed to get destroyed in one fight.
I'm speechless after this episode I don't even know how they have enough of anything on any side to have 3 more episodes for this season much less if they intend to make them more epic then that. Awesome episode overall and Wang subs were pretty decent WAY better then nyoro though I'm not sure how they stand upto the others.
Dam I really hope they dont scrap Dynames for this series, looking back on it, Dynames looks salvageable. On that note, if it is salvaged I wonder who would get it?
It won't get scrapped... and either Haro or Felt would get it
btw... the scene where they are saying that Dynames is coming back followed by the "Lockon!Lockon!" was very well done... good job from the writers
Lol Felt as a Gundam Meister would be fun. I really hope the writers will surprise us and have the both of them stay dead, I cant see Lockon die any better way. As for Ali, I just dont want him to come back in a cliché cyborg manner.
I really didnt like the look of that mobile armor in the preview it looked a little lame. As for Nena, anyone think she will join with Sumaragi and the gang?
Gundam 00 - 23 Nyoro~n Fansubs
Which is better, Nyoron or Wang? And is Wang in HD? Didn't read the above posts btw.
I would say Wang looks to be the better of those two in subs. It didn't sound weird or anything which i thought Nyoron did. But it's not HD. 848x480 resolution. But i'll rather take better quality subs then HD. I'll take Menclave later anyways so then i will be able to watch it in HD.
Anyways this episode was awesome. Loved Lockon's death scene. Although i'm sad that he died at all. He was my second favorite Meister after Tieria. And he was certainly the best one when it came to combat IMO. But now the U.N forces have lost most of it's GN drive units. So basically only the main enemy characters have one now and Ali have a Gundam Throne. So now they won't be heavily outnumbered.
And man was i pissed at Daryl (think that was him at least). First he ruined a good fight, second he was the reason Lockon lost and at the end he was all like "I'm a flag fighter!!!!" when he's not. He was driving a GN drive unit. If he had done like Graham and stayed with his Flag Fighter then he could shouted out stuff like that but he's a disgrace.
Daryl the non-sensical, you hit my friend so its payback time kind of guy. I hope that prideful bugger is dead.
So, who wants to bet Lockon's twin is going to be in the next season?
So the sniper dies ... Honestly it could have been good if only Haro just shut the fuck up from time to time. The Lockon Lockon Lockon scene, annoyed me because of Haro's voice.
Ali : Well ... Shit, he didn't fought in any honorable style. The bastard got skills but he used none, just going hit and run.
TransAm : So they are burning their ressources faster, well that explained Setsuna's stupid move letting Ali go.
Daryl dead, no big surprise here, the guy was black and on top of that he was Graham's N°2.
Well a lot happened and it was great but the fact that the second coolest char in the series dies just bothers me. Graham/Lockon/Ali ... Just dont kill people in the head trio gundam writers.
I hope Ali is dead for good. Kinda getting tired of Satsuna fighting with him and i liked the idea of 1:1 ratio of death toll of main characters. GN units put up a good fight unlike in most gundam series where non-main characters are nothing more then a cannon fodder.
How about Lockon's brother? He's perfect for the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBladeChild
What the hell are you talking about? Graham is right now an emo pussy who refuses to fight because he can't fly his oh-so-precious Flag. He should have gone out and flown a fake Gundam until the Flag gets upgraded and is ready for a fight. Now he's just sitting in his room doing nothing while his comrades die out there for the freedom of the world. Daryl on the other hand did what he had to and died like a real man. He screamed for a Flag because that's what he is: A Flag pilot. Graham right now is the disgrace. Such an amazing pilot but does nothing but smokes cigars back at the home base.Quote:
Originally Posted by TwisT
While I'm very glad Lockon died (finally somebody from the CB), I hope Ali didn't. After Graham became a temporary pacifist, Ali easily became my favorite character (for reasons I stated in an earlier thread). This fight certainly didn't change my opinion. While his basic strategy was sly, he actually fought very bravely and did procude a lot of results. You could say against the deus ex machina they were facing, his tactics were the best, while the UN forces did nothing but waste precious resources and lives.
i'm very very very glad about the supposed decrease in performance that the original Gundams will experience after using the Trans-Am system. Now let's hope someone out there is smart enough to make it come into play...
Sergei is so awesome that even Ali is honestly wowed by meeting him. The look on his face at that first moment was priceless, so un-Ali.
What kind of interest does Ali have in Tieria? I'm thinking he might be in the market for a little "angel" of his own? I didn't think he swung Corner's way.
Shame on Sergei, Katie Manakin, or whoever was in charge of that operation for not calling a retreat the second they noticed the Gundams had new equipment and capabilities. Shame on them.
Shame on Lockon for completely throwing away the GN Armor on a tactically useless, completely emotion driven attack on the cruisers. I'd understand if he was trying to give the GN-X squad nowhere to return to, putting CB in a position to crush them, but they were clearly in no shape to do that.
There goes Darryl Dutch. Now that is how a crazy, emotion driven motherfucker should go.
And there goes Lockon Stratos. And that too is how a crazy, emotion driven motherfucker should go.
It was a good episode, wasn't it?
damn, looks like I won't get my graham acre vs Lockon rematch, they were both the professionals of their side would have been awesome.
That said, I wondered why Ali went after throne Zwei, but after realizing how cheap he is with those hit and run tactics, it suited him perfectly, plus it allowed him to take advantage of Lockon's blindspot.
And damn, what a way to go, never knew anyone had the guts to take on a gundam out of a mobile suit, but gotta give lockon credit, went out with a bang!
And that black guy is dead, which means Graham has another reason to fight, though I wonder if he'll blame himself cause he was so insistent on flying a flag instead of watching out for his wingman.
Anyone count how much of the fake GN gundams were destroyed? the U.N must have lost at least half their forces in that battle!
They killed Lockon.........They killed Lockon........
Argh!!! Still trying to get over the fact they killed the coolest Gundam pilot of the four. Good ep, but sad for me at least. Now I hate Ali, I hope he dies. Bad. Lyle might take one Lockon's mantle, but it doesn't really make sense, unless for some reason CB contacts him. Anyways, I'll be looking forward to Tieria going all out next week, with Nadleeh for a change.
I'm not gonna lie, I cried when I kept hearing Haro yelling Lockon's name right up until the end.
The production dudes did a really good job with this episode.
Ya that death scene was awesome. The Haro saying Lockon's name was a nice add-on for more of a emotional effect. Personally I think this death scene completely owns Mwu's death scene. Now all I have to hope for is that they dont bring Lockon back in some completely BS manner. Overall this series has tried to keep the BS factor to a minimum at least compared to GSD. Good job writers.
As to Lockon's twin brother, the idea reminds me of the movie Beerfest, which made fun of the same idea. "I'm his long lost twin brother, and I know everything he knows, how convenient!"
I'm definitely all behind the Trans-Am weakening the Gundams beyond their normal specs. It's like running the afterburners, and then having to glide your way back to the runway to land (which as anyone knows, doesn't really work in any kind of plane that has an afterburner, since their lift-weight ratio sucks). Which seems pretty comparable to the way the Gundams seem to be functioning.
I think Felt will take over. She's got the emotional connection, and she's still the daughter of former pilots. They'll probably change the configuration around, since I doubt she's much of a qualified sniper. Convenient then that all of Dynames' arms and legs are blown off.
Again, it's been said, but I loved that all the new equipment was blown to hell in the first battle the tried to use them in.
Lol ya I remember that movie haha. Anyway I hope your right, Felts seems more of a logical choice to me then to just randomly bring out someone from the outside. Shes intelligent enough, and its not like there arent pilots around to help her train as a pilot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryllharu
The thing is, it took maybe years of training and action for Lockon's sniper skills. Using Felt, who had pilot parents, doesn't really mean that she can do it.
I can accept that she may be using a lesser suit but not Dynames. If she doesn't get loads of autobots and stuff.....
And oh, way behind but....
Setsuna x Yagami Light =)? (Death Note Anime)
I never said she'd use Dynames as a sniper unit. In fact, I stated that is why it was convenient that all its arms and legs were blown off. Easy reconfiguration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiodos
Felt seems to have lived in space for a long time, maybe even longer than she's lived on earth. There were those scenes with Christiana were she was incredibly out of place planetside while Christiana insisted they go on a shopping spree. As Bladechild said, she's really smart, and it shouldn't be too hard to her to get the hang of it quickly. She's logistics, so even if she's not skilled at sniping, a long-range Gundam would still be ideal for her. She's pick and choose targets effectively, and support the others who are more frontline.
Actually, that argument supports her better for using a Gundam like Nena's that dumps GN particles all over the place and supports the others.
Unrelated, you also brought up Setsuna. The entire first half of the series had Tieria bitching about how Veda would allow a retard like Setsuna to pilot a Gundam. Setsuna had never touched a Gundam until recently, and they constantly remarked on his utter lack of piloting skills. Graham and Ali did as well. That puts Felt ahead of Setsuna, because at least she has the genes, despite not having the temperament.
Lol im really starting to hope that Felt gets Dynames, though I still think its a long shot for to do so. Anyway I dont know if anyone has mensioned it but doesnt trans-am and the way that the Gundams glow remind you of Goku's K.O. Ken attack?
Lockon was the only who didn't activate his tran-am, wasn't he?
Good point. Was he unable to for some good reason? Or is that reason idiocy?
i thought the purpose of Trans-Am was to go fast, and that doesn't seem to be his suit's strength?
Maybe he wasn't over the injury enough to think he could do it? (i doubt)
Or maybe Ali just pwned his ass before he could get his little protagonist hax off?
Trans-Am overclocks the GN drive in all aspects, that's why Tieria shot off a superbeam in Virtue. It just ramps up the amount of GN particles that can be released in a short amount of time, be it for speed, ordinance, or whatever else.
The real operation of the trans-am was to release the stored GN particles up to 3 times(?) the normal rate, allowing for much higher GN particle output, but puting the unit dangerously low on GN particles after the run, after which it has to run at lower specs to build up the neccessary particles to run at normal and generate unending particles at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by masamuneehs
Speed is only one application of Trans-Am, as Tieria showed he can channel it into his cannon and wipe the battlefield with it. But I can't really think of how the other suits would use the extra power except for speed neither. Maybe a GN shield? If he was back on Earth, he could have used it for orbital shots with 6sec cool down. That would be pretty cool.
edit: Or maybe shoot it from the moon back down to earth units. :D Too bad he's dead. I hope Ali died with him.
edit2: Ryll beat me
I thought Tieria's shot only worked since it's charged directly from Virtue. I didn't think that would work on Dynames since they're all separate weapons with their own power supply. However, if they were somehow connected, it would explain why GN-Xs can shoot red.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryllharu
All the Gundams utilize GN particles on their weapons. Exia's main blade, for looking like an airplane wing, is somehow beyond razor sharp. Theory goes that its edge is covered in GN particles which make it excessively sharp. Same thing goes for the scissors on Kyrios (the middle blade just generates absurd levels of heat).Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
Dynames certainly charges the main orbital cannon with a thorough load of GN particles, and all the beam weapons of the Gundams use the GN particles to cleanly go into armor.
Otherwise you just have a linear cannon like Soma's Taozi did. She shot Kyrios with a dozen or so shots from that at point-blank range and it did next to nothing (but make Allelujah whine like a little girl that his head hurt).
Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying. I guess then with the Dynames unit, the bests things to do jack up is it's range and power. Sniping two units at once sounds like Lockon to me. I hope he comes back somehow, but if it's some shitty thing that messes up the story/realism, then no, I'll let him die awesome.
Ali, being able to notice that Lockon's blind spot gave him an opening, made him a pretty amazing MS pilot. He might be a ruthless killer and all, but his skills as a pilot are unmatched so far.
As for Lockon's premature death, if Mwu can come back, anyone can.
Anno Domini is at least trying to get a more realistic stance on war (though Saji suffered a bit unfairly for being a civvy). The "enemies" are all terrorists, the Gundam pilots are terrorists that we are supposed to view as idealistic freedom fighters, and governments use backroom politics and shady threats they had no intention of going through with to get what they want, the Middle East is still full of sectarian violence.
Kinue's dead for getting too close to terrorists (just like we occasionally see in the Middle East today), Louise, who I hope we see again eventually, is dismembered, and hopefully, continuing their attempt at realism, Lockon will stay dead.
Off topic:
I felt that they only brought back Mwu (GSD) just only to sell yet another model kit. By lacking it's series potentiall, the just threw random units just to make some money out of it. They even screened in the last episode 3 seconds of some random Custome Suit.
I actually wonder, if someone remembers it more than me, did Ali's Gundam get totally blown up?
Otherwise we problaby will see the typical avenger thing.
Could someone tell me what was going on with Hallelujah telling Allelujah that "I blocked your brain waves" when Al noticed there was not the usual freakout response to Soma?
Seriously, now, you have a character, a main character. He's already gotten a title episode and dominated the early quarter of the show, and so he's pretty well established. He's a bit of a pussy and a total follower, but you establish that he's to have two identifying character traits: he experiences great mental calamity whenever he's around other Super Soldiers like himself, and in traumatic / extremely frightening situations he has the tendency to mentally breakdown and let his psychotic alter ego take over and do the dirty work.
Now, let's look at this character and make a general list of things you'd probably want to see this character do/achieve over the course of an anime, based on what the creators themselves have established for his character:
1. You'd like to see him grow a bit of a spine (whine less, cry less, get emo sad less)
2. You'd like to see him confront his evil alter ego.
3. You'd like to see him overcome, or at least be able to sorta deal with, the freakout episodes caused by meeting other super soldiers.
4. You'd like to see him face and come to terms with the childhood that essentially created his character.
Now, it doesn't take a great writer to figure out that accomplishing even one of these key character goals for Allelujah means dealing with the others in some way. If Al can't stand up to people, he's never going to be able to keep Hal consistently under his control. If he can't overcome the issue with being around other Super Soldiers, he's probably not doing very well in overcoming his past. If he can't stop freaking out, he won't stop letting Hal out. If he continues to use Hal as a way to get through events he can't deal with, he likely will remain a pussy.
Now, sure, some people might say "He already did confront his past when he did the mission against the HRL Super Soldier building". But, at least to me, freaking out and destroying a building full of mostly helpless, sufferring young kids amidst a screaming fit isn't confronting anything (especially since he does it partially as a result of Hal's harassing / making him). If the mission had been anything but "destroy it", he'd have failed it miserably. Since then, he really hasn't had any meaningful scene outside of battles, and then we're suddenly at episode 23 and facing the end of the first half.
So they get to this episode, and there's a problem: Dynames can't sortie right away, and you're in a tighter spot than when it took all your Gundams to defend the flagship from attacking forces. Clearly, Al needs to go out there. But, wait, Soma (the somehow one remaining Super Soldier out there, like they literally kept all their other Super Soldiers at the same place and not once besides her have produced another functioning one) is out there! Oh no! This episode is supposed to be mostly about Lockon, you can't have Al stealing the spotlight!
Clearly, the best way to quickly meet this problem is: Have Al resort to the same shit he's always had to do when faced with a life or death situation he can't handle: let Hal take over. It doesn't require alot of the episode's time, explains why the CB Gundams pwn the GN-X squad, and is consistent with Al's character, who has never once come in contact with a Super Soldier and not either completely shut down and assumed the fetal position (not an option in this serious battle) or let Hal take control. This would also leave Al's character development points for later, where they could actually be addressed involving all the psychological drama that usually comes with a naturaly gentle person confronting their psychotic alter-ego and the trauma that spawned it (see the 1998 RPG for the Playstation by Squaresoft that, coincidentally, involves giant robots).
But, no, instead the quick solution is: Al can stay in control because Hal does something with his brain waves.
Clearly this fails on several levels, and let's break it down, shall we?
Level A (The Realm of Reason): It doesn't make any fucking sense. It doesn't. How does blocking your own brainwaves help when what causes your freakout is the other person being around you? Even if you're somehow managing to not use the part of your brain that is affected by the other Super Soldier's prescence, don't you think that might hinder your, say, soldiering abilities? Maybe a little, considering that brain wave activity clearly has to have something to do with, you know, the soldier program you were in that essentially gives you any worth in a battle? Again, it doesn't make sense, and that's just the lowest level.
Level B (The Realm of Consistency): It goes against everything we've learned about the character so far. As far as we've seen, Hal likes his homicidal constitutionals. Whenever Al freaks out, Hal revels in taking the stage, or at least badgering Al enough to make the poor wimp do what he thinks is best (like frying the Super Soldier building). It's also been quite a while since Hal's gotten out. Finally, neither of them have ever openly come up with this idea before, and it's not once been mentioned or hinted at.
Level C (The Realm of Basic Cause): It takes away the simplest and most compelling reason for Al to confront his past and try to deal with his reactions to Super Soldiers: If you don't stop freaking out, you're going to die at Soma's hands. CB should have made Al face this a long time ago, or at least start working on it. We all have remarked how much of a liability he is in any battle that has even the possibility of Soma showing up, but now it doesn't matter, because Hal can just "block brainwaves" suddenly.
Level D (The Level of Complex Cause): Suddenly then, having this split personality loses a great deal of its danger and threat. Hal being willing to just help out Al and sit quietly while Al stays in control isn't just wildly inconsistent with the character, it actually creates reason for Al to not get rid of Hal. Adding on top of Level C, there really is no lingering reason for Al to deal with his childhood as a Super Soldier or defeat his evil alter-ego (in a way, we're presented with a situation where it seems he has already won some kind of victory over Hal because Hal is suddenly just being all helpful without doing any of the cool evil shit, as if he's really very fine with playing second fiddle and never emerging).
Level E (The Realm of Higher Motivation): This leaves only level E, where Al has to overcome his split personality for the same reason people climb Everestt, "Because it's there." ("and because I want to do it"). Sure, maybe Al will actually experience a breakthrough on his own, but since this kind of BS nonesense basically eliminates the reason for facing and overcoming Hal, it'd be a big angsty stew of "I want to become a better person!" that's as cliche and yawn worthy as any character trait in any anime ever.
Sure, maybe they can save it for the next season and do a good job of it. but then they'll have to deal with explaining just how exactly Hal 'blocks brainwaves' and have Al both defeat Hal and attain that ability, all while exploring the more uplifting theme of "Fight for what you believe in and try to make the world a better place, starting with yourself!". That's one of the best case scenarios the writers have left themselves with. Or they could really just fuck it up by ignoring any of the main character's established themes /problems (because, in Gundam 00, your theme is more often than not some kind of problem), or ignoring a bunch of them.
But, yeah, I just noticed this hasn't really been mentioned at all in this discussion. Clearly the episode had more pressing things to focus on, but now that we've had some time to take that all in, I think this deserves a bit of attention too. What do you guys think? Did I just write an essay rant because of a mistranslation on the WANG groups' part? What the hell is the deal?
edit - and, to answer the question above my post, I'm pretty sure that part of it blew up, but we never see the entire thing explode, at least nothing in the way of the explosion from the Dynames' attachment... Besides, Ali needs to survive so we can get some more backstory on Setsuna.
Not that I don't agree with the points in your rant masa, but there's a lot to say about the translation here. At least in Shinsen's version, Hal states that he's "...shutting out the quantum brainwaves."
SOMEHOW, MAGICALLY, Hal is doing for Al what technology has been doing for Soma since she got her new pilot helmet and matching suit. I agree with you that how Hal is accomplishing this for Al is total and utter bullshit.
Maybe he's incoherently screaming at Soma's invading brainwaves. Maybe we'll never know.
So tell me then, how does Hallelujah manage to fight without having a seizure, whereas Allelujah whenever he confronts the super-soldier girl ends up in pain?
If you accepted that Hal magically doesn't get those psychic fits in earlier episodes, this shouldn't be any different. The Hal side seems to have a better control of their powers.
Good points.
Still, but as Masa said or at the least, implied, why would Hal bother protecting Al? Usually he just takes over. Bloody battles in particular. While you are correct that Hal doesn't have those problems and endures it, either because the Al-psyche is taking all the damage still (the more likely scenario, and one I stand behind), or something ridiculous that Hal is actively doing.
I always thought that Hal wasn't immune to Soma's brainwaves, didn't have some ability to block it out. I just figured he wasn't nearly as big a pussy as Al and so he could go on hacking people to ribbons while largely ignoring it. I mean, that's often what defines a split personality relationship; the weak personality can't handle something, so it creates the second one to deal with it, usually making the second personality incredibly good against whatever that thing was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryllharu
So I'm pretty tempted to reject the theory that Al's mind is still taking the damage, because that sorta defeats the purpose of creating the other personality to deal with all the shit. And it also doesn't work because, if Al's psyche still took the mental damage from Soma's brainwaves when Hal has control of the body, then Al's psyche would still be taking the mental damage from Soma's brainwaves in episode 23.
Not on the same level, but if I really hated Japanese to the point that I couldn't deal with learning it, and I made a second personality to learn Japanese in my stead, he'd probably get damn good at it, while I wouldn't progress at all. Then, if I went to Japan, I couldn't just go "okay second personality, I need you to translate for me and help me speak Japanese". sure, maybe if I was lucky and my second personality was a very nice... persona... maybe he'd translate what other people said in Japanese into English. But he sure as hell couldn't convert all my thoughts into Japanese and allow my main persona to speak Japanese to others.
So, I can understand that Al forced Hal to experience all the "seizures" and negative side effects he experienced being around other Super Soldiers as a kid, and that Hal became used to shutting out those brain waves, or at least ignoring them. But what I can't stomach is how the second personality is just supposed to conveniently do stuff for the main personality while the main one is in control of the body.
If multiple personalities could all work in concert together like that for the main one, I'd imagine we'd have seen, you know, one freaking example of it in real life.