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Dattebayo
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well i noticed a double post, I must have missed it or not seen it. Someone can delete this one or the other one then.
Yamato's creepiness puts a drain on his previously established badassness. But having a skill only a Hokage had is pretty badass too so he's still in the black.
I'm glad they took an hour to get all this touchy feely stuff out of the way though, having three full episodes of 'team building' in a row would have been god-awful boring.
Nice episodes, but like Yuki said, thankfully they were aired together.
Yamato is awesome. Making a full house is somewhat going to far, but I guess its belivable since he is a badass character.
Sai Sai Sai... calling Sasuke a homo was gold.
Oh yeah... ending sequence changed the credit roll so Dattebayo didn't add the translation of Sai's text this time.
damn, hinataQuote:
Originally Posted by Knives122
Wows at the screen cap. :o
Downloading now.....
Did anyone notice sai had color n wasnt horribly pale when he got outta da spring? Wonder who the spy is, think its a new character? hmm...
holy hell... look at them jugs on anko! it looks like she's wearing some damn traffic cones under that towel. XD
Look at the ramen lady! Now thats some cleavage.
Anyways, this ep was pretty decent. Nice fanservice though. :p
Seriously though, why the hell is Konohamaru's teamate in that image? Wtf is wrong with Naruto?
Anyway, I'm not a big fan of a "special" in which nothing special happens, but this episode showed how cool Yamato is. Love that "control with fear" face. Especially in the peeping warning.
Sakura suckerpunching Sai was great too. She's trying so hard to undo all those years of suck she gave us from the first series.
Also, why is she smiling?Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthEnder
i actually prefer episodes like this nowadays...
the humor actually makes me chuckle, and I love the weird tension and antipathy on the team now. Yamato and Sai are excellent for new characters, changing the scenario because they're not Kakashi and Sasuke, and establishing enjoyable and unique traits of their own (filler writers would learn from this). Both have been comic gold at times, but too bad Yamato doesn't bring as many plot implications (aside from great potential for plot convenience... you just sorta know he's going to pull some outta nowhere shit in the middle of a fight to suddenly save everyone's asses...) to the story as Sai and Root do.
I actually think it makes him more badass. He seemed a bit of wuss earlier, with his blank expression (ofcourse he's an ANBU, but still) he just had a flat character.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukimura
Like this episode, animation was OK as far as I'm concerned apart from a sloppy framerate here and there. And Sai's skintone was off when he got out of the spring allright.
Will not be a surprise, if the spy is sasuke :)Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlydreamx
But it would be absurd :eek:
Sasuke helping akatsuki?
The only way I'd see him do that is if Sasori was planning on giving him Itachi's whereabouts.
This ep wasn't great but it wasn't bad. I actually wanted some action but I guess I'll have ot wait. Lol at Sai's words: ("Its nothing special") "Like your dick?" And yay for Sakura for blushing
I think the house thing was a little overdone...I mean, the story wants to show how advanced Yamato's power is, but it just doesn't make any sense to build a huge multi-story house in middle of a mission in a dark forest, especially in the ninja world where you have to be extra careful for survival by not hinting out your location.
And I can't believe Naruto would try to do something perverted! I thought he was always making fun of Jiraiya for that! Jiraiya's seriously influenced him or Naruto is just going through puberty (about time I guess)
Oh, and did anyone notice that Yamato's "fear" face expressions looked like the face expressions you would see in GTO Anime or Manga? Jesus, the resemblence was incredible
sasori's kinda dead though...but yeah, i doubt sasuke would be helping akatsuki tooQuote:
Originally Posted by AssertnFailure
So having a technique that no one aside from the First Hokage doesn't bring enough plot to you liking? I think that's very interesting, and it goes to "who the heck is this guy?" Why doesn't anyone know about him, especially if he's indeed related to the First Hokage... wouldn't he be well know for the mere fact that he's related to him, if he's indeed related?Quote:
Originally Posted by masamuneehs
Lol. at all these posts.
There is no way Sasuke would be helping Akatsuki that just doen't make any sense. Naruto is a complete pervert anyone remember when he used to go into the girls bathing rooms claiming that he needed to see what the real things looked like so he could use his sexy jutsu properly.
Yamato building the house was cool the guy likes to travel in style, I don't find him to be creepy but Orochimaru as far as the Narutoverse is concerned is the baddest of all badasses and look at him. Besides they aren't near their mission objective yet, they still have a day or two to get there, I think they are still in the fire country which is home turf so they have no reason to be cautious.
No one knowing about Yamato could simply be due to the fact that he is in the anbu and seems to have been there for a very long time and since who the anbu members are is a secret I don't think anyone would know. Besides people knowing about him is not something you can really go on, if I remember correctly when the Sannin were first introduced nobody in Kakshi's group knew anything about them. Besides from the conversation he had with Kakashi and the others I think that most of the high ranking ninjas in the village know about him.
It is also a pretty safe assumption that he is not related to the first. If he was then that would mean he is related to Tsunade and she doesn't seem to threat him like a relative, secondly all of her relatives are supposed to be dead if I remember correctly. Yamato's age would make him much younger than Tsunade so unless she and Dan had some offspring. Anyway we don't know anything about family histories in Naruto, other than Itachi killed the Uchiha clan.
There's really only 3 possiblities for the spy.
1. Kabuto
2. One of the Sound 4 if any of them somehow survived
3. Someone new.
Cause, Orochimaru isn't spying on Orochimaru, and Sasuke isn't spying for Akatsuke. And we don't know any other sound people.
Maybe he's from an illegitimate lineage... The First probably hard no shortage of ladies considering he was The First Hokage - quite an accomplishment.
Lol @ Darthender.
:eek: Kraco just what are you insinuating.:)
He did plant the seed that became Konoha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
True so he must be potent.
There are so many questions about Konoha and the Naruto world most of which I'm guessing won't ever be answered. Anyway we should have some good action coming up soon lets hope they stay the course and keep everything short and sweet, and the animation doesn't take a hit again.
What was the significance of the seeds Yamato had? They took some time to show them, and they're definitely part of his equipment. At first I thought he snuck it into the food they ate. 3 seeds, 3 team members, and he kinda looked at the food/Sai funny when they all finished. Maybe that was just him restraining himself to ask Sakura about Sasori though. If those seeds weren't used in the food, then the most likely thing is that's probably the source of his power, using seeds to perform wood techniques.
Yes thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha826
Obviously the spy wouldn't know this....or else he wouldn't be going to the bridge now, would he?
@DarthEnder: Why didn't you just say: "Anyone except Oro or Sasuke"? lol...
sasuke is a betrayer (i think its write like that) so why couldnt he betray oro? oro wanna kill him and sasuke wants power, its like giving candy to a child, he will do anything for that
Oro isn't Sasuke's enemy as such. If he were to betray Orochimaru, he would need to gain something more from whoever he would be covertly working for than what Oro is giving him. However, I don't really think Sasuke would like to learn puppet jutsu from Sasori... It doesn't exactly sound like the kind of thing that would give great power quickly.
Well, Sasori could've had some info to trade... like info on his brother or something.
Still, remember when Shippuden started we got a scene where Naruto and Sasuke meet, there was no bridge around as far as I remember so it doesn't seem they'll meet just yet.
I'm trying to post "content heavy".Quote:
Originally Posted by AssertnFailure
Sasuke has no reason to betray Oro. Sure Oro wants to take his boby but he already knows that and Oro is giving him power that is why he went there. Orochimaru is not Sasuke's enemy Itachi is, therefore so is Akatsuki so he would not help them. Besides for Sasuke to be Sasori's spy they would've had to have come into previous contact and that hasn't happened.
Sasuke has been in the village all of his life and when he left he went to Orochimaru and Oro had already left Akatsuki so he has never met any of the members besides Orochimaru, Itachi and Kisame.
@ForteCross: Sasuke isn't a betrayer he didn't betray anyone, it was clear from the very beginning that his only goal in life was to kill Itachi everyone knew that. Sure he left the village but he didn't give Orochimaru any information he didn't already know about the leaf and its not as if he tried to attack the village or anything. He left the village to gain enough power to achieve his goals, I don't consider that to be a betrayal. Naruto and the others are the ones who chose to come after him and try to stop him from leaving which didn't make any sense since he was leaving voluntarily so even if they did manage to stop him it would have only been delaying the inevitable.
Didn't make any sense? Even if we forget the fact many considered Sasuke a friend or at least an ally who was making the biggest mistake of his life, we still have the fact Orochimaru is Konoha's enemy and Sasuke was bringing one of the most dangerous Konoha weapons into his hands: Sharingan. So, I'd say that's plenty of reasons, no matter how much free will people are given (and considering it's a ninja village, that is, basically a military base, personal freedom might be lower in the list of priorities than somewhere else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
It's kind of like in the 40's or 50's one of the top nuclear physicist of the USA would have liked to move to the Soviet Union. It wouldn't have made people happy back in the USA, not his friends nor his government.
A real world analogy doesn't fit this situation its an anime. What I was saying didn't make sense is that to this point the village doesn't seem to consider Sasuke a betrayer. They still have it as if he was kidnapped by Orochimaru and he wasn't. My point was what were they going to do if they had indeed brought Sasuke back because I know they weren't going to lock him up in a prison or anything, and if they had indeed stopped him from gaining the power that Oro would give him, he would have only ended up hating them.
So while I do understand why they didn't want him to go to Oro, if they indeed intended to stop him there were only two ways of doing it. Either to imprison him which won't have worked not only because he is strong but that would've only meant that Oro would've came back for him sooner or later or kill him which, since we are talking about ninjas is the most logical choice.
The leaf village doesn't view Sasuke as an enemy so they wouldn't have done either of those things so while sending a team to retrieve Sasuke may have been the right choice it definitely wasn't thought through enough, because the outcome would've been the same. Really if they didn't have enough ninjas in the village, so no high ranking ones could've been sent on the mission they would've been better off just leaving him alone because they nearly lost seven of their most promising genin instead of just one.
Actually... the fact that Sasuke left on his own marks him as a Missing-Nin... which is branded like a traitor on this anime.
Don't know if he made the bingo book though.
The real world analogy doesn't fit? Oh, well, I'm sorry but I grew up in the real world so I kind of tend to think in real world terms. Can't really help it, nor would I want it any other way.
I don't see you providing a better solution, because obviously just letting him go wasn't one. If it had been just Naruto and Sakura alone who wanted him back then it would have been a different story, but it seemed to be the official stance. And as such their options were limited: Maybe they would have tried to get him to stay back willingly by assigning him to different work, like ANBU, and granting him exclusive teaching (from Kakashi or anybody skilled enough). It might have been worth it to retain the Uchiha bloodline. If it hadn't worked, at least they would have tried. Or maybe they would have brain washed him with some special jutsu.
We already saw Itachi would be capable of beating any Konoha ninja. It would be foolish of Konoha to let similar potential to fall into Oro's hands without a fight. No matter if it goes against the free will of somebody.
Sai clearly recognizes Sasuke as a missing-nin and a traitor. Plus he's part of roots, who, as it's been implied, seek to serve the bests interests of Konoha from beyond Konoha's narrow viewpoint.
Maybe Danzou wants Sai to kill Sasuke, to ensure the sharingan doesn't fall into evil hands?
That was my first reaction when I heard Sasori saying that he has a spy working for him under Oro. I did posted it, but didn't really get equal minded people to react.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthEnder
I still think there's a possibility that's him, since he's the only one who works under Oro directly and it seems quite weird if they introduced someone out of the blue.
About Yamato, he has a power only the First knew how AND Tsunade really trusts him. That kinda gives a hint about the fact that they're related in some way. It's hard to believe every relative of Tsunade is dead...
Kabuto would seem to be the most likely candidate...especially since he's always seemed so flaky in the past.
Wouldn't that be interesting....
Kabuto being a spy for akatsuki as a spy for orochimaru as a medic nin for Konoha.
Kabuto: Spy for Hire
So what they just passed him around as a child or something, orphan to medical squad, medical squad to akatsuki, akatsuki to Orochimaru and then back to the leaf as a spy for Orochimaru. I mean he is supposed to be only 22 now they must have passed him around more than addicts pass needles although that would explain why he is so messed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by AssertnFailure
Supposedly he started as a lone survivor from the enemy side of the "Kikyo Pass" battle or something, as a little kid....and then was adopted by the chief medic guy from Konoha.
I'm not even really sure how oro got ahold of him.
Wow, so yet another thing to add to the list. That is one seriously messed up childhood no wonder that guy is so messed up. I mean the only thing Sasuke had was that his older brother killed his entire clan and look how he turned out. I wonder what Kabuto is really like and what his motivations are, and what was up with his eyes turning red back when they were in the forest of death.
I hope Kabuto is the spy now just because I think Kabuto is awsome and he hasn't done anything since the 3 Sannin arc.
Well since he's in this arc's OP, I feel confident we'll see some Kabuto action later on, but seeing him fighting Yamato, it doesn't look like he'll be very cooperative. The first episode shows that they end up in Orochimaru's base, so maybe he does feel like spilling some info to them.
Kabuto would actually make a lot of sense. Orochimaru was Sasori's original partner and Kabuto is Oro's right hand man so it's very possible that Kabuto would have had some contact with Sasori. Perhaps Kabuto was hoping to get back into Akatsuki himself by helping Sasori.
I don't think Kabuto has any aspirations beyond serving Orochimaru, he reveres him on the level of a deity.
Ah, forgot about that. Now we actually have a reason as to why Sasori put a spy on Oro, other than him being an Akatsuki traitor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash
Don't forget, Sasori had a technique that locks the spy's memories, making them indeed very loyal to their master, only for their memories to unlock, and their loyalty to return to their true master. That's how they tricked the Sand. Up to this point, Kabuto may have well been loyal to Oro, though at one point in the Chuunin exam arc, he did seem a bit fishy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
What reason is there for Sasori to put a spy on Orochimaru other than him being an Akatsuki traitor. Aren't they too hunting him down trying to kill him. I have to give Oro credit though not only is he a S rank missing-nin who is wanted in most if not all the villages for death but even an organization made up solely of S rank missing-nin is hunting him and he still manages to escape them all. That is how you know you're a badass when even the bad guys want to kill you.
I just want to see something really badass from Kabuto. I've been waiting for it since the scene where he approaches the unconscious Sasuke after the prelims.
Well, Oro is still weaker than Itachi (he said so himself) so Oro might be strong, but not strong enough. And almost all of us would think that Zero is the strongest among the Akatsuki's. Hell, the guy is the leader among badasses and can do jutsu's through a hologram...
Have you forgatten shippuuden ep1? It was naruto, sakura and sai (was it sai?) chasing sasuke. My memory may decieve me tho... Its clear that we are closing in on that moment.
Besides come one! The guy in the end was definately Sasuke. The partial face matches and he wear the same kind on footwear.
It would be logical for Sasuke trying to get closer to Akatsuki since he wants to kill hes brother. I think hes strong enough for that now.
The meeting with the spy will happen on the Heaven and Earth bridge, Oro's hideout ain't a bridge I recon. And I don't think they chased Sasuke "the spy" to the hideout, cause when they encoutered Sasuke they seemed surprised to see him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pessu
But now we're on the subject, we saw Naruto and the rest of Team Kakashi running inside Oro's lair, that meant Oro wasn't there. Don't think he tolerates intruders that easily. Meaning he was gone, perhaps he found out about a certain spy in his organisation?...
And in the opening song we did saw Oro in action. :confused:
And I don't think Sasuke is strong enough to kill Itachi, if so, he's strong enough to kill Oro, and I doubt he'd let that happen. Since Sasuke is his new container.
Tell me about it. Kabuto looked to have some serious potential as a major threat from the very beginning and the fact that they constantly compared him to Kakashi really got me excited about that, but it just never developed.Quote:
Originally Posted by AssertnFailure
That is an awfully closed minded way of thinking of things. This isn't DBZ this is Naruto so Oro saying that Itachi is stronger than him doesn't really mean much. Sure Itachi may be stronger than him and he may have defeated him in the past, but that may simply be due to their different fighting styles. I remember Jiraiya saying something to the effect that Oro is stronger than he is and that he was never able to defeat him, yet Itachi who is supposed to be stronger than Oro ran from Jiraiya even though he had Kisame to back him up.Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSpirine
I'm not trying to attack you or anything, I'm just saying that 'strength' in Naruto doesn't automatically mean that one guy is stronger or better than someone else. Look at the what Temari did to Tayuya for example there is no way Temari was stronger that CS lvl 2 Tayuya, her jutsu was just well suited against Tayuya's.
What? Were you not watching the conversations between them during the chuunin exam?Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
Kabuto doesn't even LIKE Orochimaru.
i m sure it is kabuto...
Oro allways suggested that Kabuto is a Traitor, remember when he told him following: "If you wish to stop me, you should go and kill Sasuke now..." (or something like that)
and i m sure Kabuto doesn't like beeing a servant, he seeks power because if he doesn't why would he be at Oro's side? So maybe he IS working for Akatsuki, because they promised him something. But on the other side... i don't get the point why sasori even HAS a spy among Orochimaru's troops... if they seek him and they know where he is, why don't they kill him?
Btw being a spy does fit Kabuto very well... he can change his atittude in a matter of seconds this is just perfect when you have to act as a spy.
Kabuto could also be something like a Double-Agent.... maybe he's working FOR orochimaru as a spy in akatsuki, which would also give the answer to the question why akatsuki did not catch up on him. he is allways one step ahead.
Kabuto gives "not so important" information to sasori while he gathers all the infos he can get from beeing in contact with sasori/akatsuki
so its difficult to say which side Kabuto serves, but actually the fact that he is very close to Oro is enough to convince me that kabuto is the spy, tell me... who else? the first ~200 episodes would be simply non-sense if he isn't.
it can't be sasuke.. that would be simply stupid.. don't you remember the first episode? naruto/sakura etc. where SEARCHING for sasuke in the rooms...(at least that is what i read out of the scenes) so why would they search for him when he is the spy? they would have "found" him allrdy.
What about when they were about to make out after tsunade beat the shit out of him?Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthEnder
That is by far the dumbest thing you have ever said. Kabuto does not intent to surpass Oro he simply wants to serve him. He loves Orochimaru and he is the only person Oro trusts he said so himself. The two of them just like to play games with each other which is what they were doing then/ There are many other examples of this like when Oro sent Kabuto after Shizune or the fight with the Sannin or the conversation they had about Kimimaro after he had left.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthEnder
Kabuto doesn't intend to surpass Oro at least not at this point. He seems to be content with merely serving him and helping him achieve his goals. He even offered Oro his body to use during the Sasuke retrieval arc.Quote:
Originally Posted by KrayZ33
I think Kabuto working as a double or I suppose he was a triple agent makes alot of sense. If he was working as a spy for Orochimaru not only in the leaf but also in Akatsuki that would explain why Orochimaru was always able to stay one step ahead of them and why they were never able to find him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthEnder
Seeing you say that Orochimaru isn't spying on Orochimaru made me think of a possible 4th scenario. Orochimaru sent the "spy" to Sasori and was playing him all along to keep tabs on Akatsuki. Seems plausible to me.
A Kabuto vs Yamato fight would be very cool. Though they would have to distract Naruto, Sakura and Sai or he would be running away and thus ruin the fight. *Crosses fingers*
Thats only possible if we assume Sasori is a complete moron though. Sasori would have eithe sent one of his own people who he knew he could trust, or put that mind control Jutsu of his on one of Oro's guys. I highly doubt Oro could just send someone in there and expect some new guy to be the one that gets sent off to spy on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Narasho
Just watched episodes 32-37 in one go. I have to say that the anime has really improved from the whole botched Deidara/Sasori arc. Even the end of that arc was very well done, with a lot of emotion being conveyed and all.
As for the current arc, I am enjoying the anime version more than the manga. There's just a whole lot of things that you can understand in the anime with things such as the tone of voice and music that you can just not pick up on in the mannga. I'm looking forward to what shoul be coming up soon, as the anime is now as a pleasant surprise running along the course of the manga with no filler content thrown in amongst the recent eps.
It's not as such totally impossible. Sasori would never be stupid enough but he could, just like Oro, play the game. So, we could have spy that's doubly compromised, getting and conveying calculated information both ways. Of course this scenario would assume the spy himself would need to be a quite moron to tolerate such a game, and thus it would mean he couldn't be anybody we really know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash
Sasori didn't exactly strike me as the type to play games though. There wouldn't have been any benefit in doing that for him. The only real option in that scenario, like i mentioned before, would be that he puts that mind control Jutsu on the guy and sends him back. The flip side of that is that Oro was his former partner and probably knows about that particular technique. So if Oro wanted someone to spy on Akatsuki, i'd say Sasori is the least likely candidate for him to send someone to.
You are absolutely...100%...confusing Kabuto with Kimmimaru.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
Nothing the show has ever shown us has ever shown ANY of what you described. In fact, when Orochimaru isn't standing right next to him, Kabuto is usually considering betraying him(like when he was considering killing Sasuke to ruin that particular plot of Orochimaru). The only times Kabuto acts like a loyal, obedient servant who only wants to help Orochimaru...is when Orochimaru is WITH him, which, der, he's a spy, he's fucking faking.
There's some reason why Kabuto serves Orochimaru, and it isn't because he loves him. It's either because Sasori wanted him too, or because Orochimaru has something he wants. Whatever it is, the show hasn't revealed it yet.
DarthEnder you are completely wrong my friend the one who is confused is you. I don't think you know anything about Kabuto at all. There is plenty of evidence to support everything I have said about Kabuto but instead of having some pointless argument with you, you'll just have to wait and see because I know I am right.
I think, however, that Kabuto is a character that it very open to interpretation and that we don't actually even know his motives ourselves.
As proven by these discussions.
@ first i want to say that this argument is not pointless, why do you think you are posting in a forum? its because you want to have an argument and it can't be pointless when you have enough material to use.
no there were not... there were moments when Kabuto obviously hates Oro and there were moments when he talked to him as a good friend/ servant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
these moments hower could be simply faked... Kabuto did also speak highly of naruto sometimes, however in the Sannin arc. we all saw that he thinks naruto is a kid and stupid..
sooo how would you act in front of a person which could kill you in an instant? i would be very polite and act like i like him..but in fact i would think the opposite..
the conversation during the Chuunin exams showed that Kabuto has something in mind...didnt you see his face?i mean why would he be so extremly scared when Oro told him that he saw through him and he has to kill Sasuke if he wishes to stop him now...lucky for him Oro was only kidding
the reason why Kabuto serves Oro is simply power i believe...
He can test his Medical jutsus on test-subjects which is forbidden in other ninja-villages..
so he gains something from him and since he can't go elsewhere (he's a spy!!!! and a missing-nin) he stays with Oro.
In addition to that:
Kabuto isn't so stupid like Naruto or even Sasuke who would simply die for their dreams.
he believes that when he dies his dreams and goals won't come true, so there is no point in fighting against Oro directly but i still don't think he lives happily as a servant (even though he is a high-ranked one). I believe if someone would give him more than Oro does he would simply betray him and the only persons which are strong enough to make Kabuto feel like its worth betraying Oro are the people from Akatsuki..
However... Kabuto beeing a double-agent does make most sense i think.
i just wanted to point out that there IS the possibility Kabuto does not "love" or even "like" Oro. He is not a person which is worth fighting for if you gain nothing from it, is he?
everyone of his servants seeked power or help in the fillers and in the real episodes. that was the only reason why they actually fought! so why would kabuto do otherwise? he doesn't act like someone who has "so much respect" (remember when he fought against kakashi or the Sannin), he has absolutely no reason to "love" Oro or feel respect towards him (only towards his powers maybe, which would mean that he fears him ~~)
to sum this up, its more "fear" than "love"
Normally, a person who's unloyal to you doesn't need to act that way unless he has a better person to turn to. Oro is a pretty powerful person to serve, so there wasn't a NEED for Kabuto to do anything suspicious or unloyal. When Oro lost his arms, however, he kept by him. Now that either indicates that he is truely loyal to Orochimaru, or that he just think he's still the best person to serve for the time being. Being by his side at a time like that also deepens whatever trust Oro may have had in him, which is a perfect tactic for a spy. And besides, we only know Sasori wanted to spy on Oro, he hadn't neccessarily told his spy to do anything hostile or destructive, just pass on info.
How loyal was that Sand guy (was it Yuri?) before his memory unlocked? Who's to say Sasori doesn't lock the spy's Kabuto's memory everytime he goes back, so he's completely loyal, only to have it unlocked and meet Sasori again and again.
I believe Kabuto's probably the spy to be honest, but I'm simply listing the possibility and circumstances under which that can happen.
edit: btw, there some post earlier about Sai being coloured when he got out of the hot bath. He was in there as long as Naruto, who was completely red. That little bit of skin colour may be as red as he can get.
well its not like Oro was weak when he has lost his arms, he could even defeat(!) a *nearly* fully recovered Jiraya (i don't know how to spell him :P)
and like i said before, where else should he go? and what would he gain from killing Oro? nothing... at least not now. its not like he can rule a whole country on his own or gain power this way. so i think its more like he has nowhere to go to or noone to turn to.
@ KrayZ33: You must really be crazy. How can you say that no one working for Oro loved him and that they were only there for power, remember Kimimaro and Kabuto definitely loves Oro. Yes there are other reasons why he is with Oro but the main one is because he likes him and his ideals and that is why he is working to help him.
I never thought Kabuto would love Oro. I think he just deeply respects him as an ultimate author of jutsu, many of them related closely to the medical sciences in which Kabuto himself excels. I deem he just wants to learn anything he can from Orochimaru, but in order to do that he needs to to be a more or less useful henchman.
Your right, and neither do you, because they haven't told us anything about Kabuto. But unlike you, I'm not just making shit up to fill in what I THINK the character is about. I'm talking about things that actually happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
Which you can't possibly unless you're some kind of manga reader. In which case, it's the mods place to deal with you, not mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
-Pretty long post, read bitches:p
Wow dude. You really shoudn't be talking about stuff you know nothing about. There is evidence to support everything I've said.
Why don't you try and actually contribute something to the discussion instead of trying to attack me. That is just sad.
Are you purposely trying to start something with me, you're like a damn shadow following me everywhere?
The thing is that Kabuto seems to be operating of his own free will. If you remember that incident when Oro was in the shower and Kabuto was arguing with him, Kabuto was the one who made the prisoners fight so that Orochimaru would take over the body of the survivor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
Kabuto is also the one who sent Kimimaro to get Sasuke and during the early part of the series such as when Kabuto was talking to Baki or when he failed to capture Sasuke and when Oro sent him to eliminate Shizune. It shows that unlike Oro's other subordinates Kabuto has a lot of free will and that Oro trusts him more than anyone else so he isn't really a 'henchman'.
True if Kabuto intended to betray him or if Sasori had really intended for Kabuto to try and kill Oro there were many chances. If he wanted Orochimaru dead then the situation I mentioned above when Oro was waiting for Sasuke would've been the perfect chance. Oro was helpless and :eek: naked in the shower if Kabuto intended to kill him that would've been the perfect chance. He didn't even have to attack him directly all he had to do was to kill the host body that Oro would've used then he would've been dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
There were also two opportunities during the Sannin battle. The first was when Tsunade attempted to use that medical jutsu to kill Orochimaru or during the battle itself because I would imagine that if Kabuto wasn't there to use the summoning jutsu Oro would've been killed.
show me "the evidence" i can't find it
he never said "i luv ya" or something like that
and you know, his polite behavior is not a proof...
No he didn't directly come out and say I love you. I think Sakura is the only 'ninja' soft enough to ever say something like that well at least she was. Anyway if you remember when Kabuto first revealed himself as one of Oro's henchmen and his language and actions in every appearance he has made since then, its pretty clear. Just rewatch the sannin battle, his little chats during the Sasuke rescue arc and during the chunin exam arc and you will understand my argument.
Yes, Kabuto's polite behaviour isn't proof of anything Baki, Itachi, Kisame and Orochimaru were all very polite. I like that a polite enemy.
there might not be any evidence that Kabuto, like Kimimaro and Haku, is in love with his evil boss. Hell, even Kimimaro never said that he loved Orochimaru (but I still think you're blind and dumb and/or homophobic if you can't at least understand why some people say that Kimi's affection for Oro was tinged with love).
But I do think Kabuto is extremely loyal to Orochimaru. He saved his life when Tsunade feigned healing him. He helps with tons of body transfers. He works almost like Orochimaru's personal doctor at times. I mean, Kabuto didn't even blink when Oro's plan to destroy Konoha failed and Oro was left crippled, let alone act like he wanted to abandon him.
There was that episode where Kabuto went to kill Sasuke. But he didn't. And, when you ask yourself WHY Kabuto would have gone and killed Sasuke, what reasons can you come up with? That he wanted to thwart Orochimaru's plan? No, he would have screwed him over at some other crucial point.
The only reason I could ever think of for why Kabuto wanted to kill Sasuke is that he was afraid Sasuke would replace him as Oro's right hand man. He couldn't stand how obsessed Orochimaru was with Sasuke. And, if you care to examine that line of thought further, it's not hard to take Kabuto's paranoid-jealousy of Sasuke to an extension of his feelings toward Orochimaru.
But, this all being said, I can't see why the spy couldn't be Kabuto. Remember, Yuura was absolutely loyal to the Sand, without even the faintest ideas of treachery, but Sasori's jutsu took control of him anyway. It's not like Sasori's spy is something people choose to be...
I'm not sure if you were agreeing with me or not, but basically I'm not disagreeing with what you wrote there. The things is, he can't act like a really adoring goon because I doubt Oro would teach anything really fancy to such a person. He needs to show initiative of his own for Oro to recognize his potential and ambitions (usefulness for anything more than carrying out simple orders) - if Oro even has an intention to teach anyone anything at all. However, considering Oro's goal is to learn all the jutsu around, you might assume he wouldn't diss Kabuto's wish to learn new skills as well. And being as tough, clever and skillful as Kabuto is, I very much doubt he would stick around unless he aims to get something out of it - no matter how much he respects Oro; he hasn't given me the kind of impression he would waste his life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
Quote:
Originally Posted by masamuneehs
i never said kimi was not fighting for Oro i have to admit that i forgot him.. the sentence "i luv ya" was just a joke... sorry if that wasn't clear...i know that he is the same as Haku.
abdula uses the word "evidence" but there IS NO !!EVIDENCE!! he's speculating like everyone else but unlike him we don't say "you are all wrong and i m right"
or at least i don't
and i did explain why kabuto did not leave Oro's side and why he is so polite and helpfull however these were only speculations, too.
its just stupid of you guys to act like its a well known fact that kabuto likes Oro, but thats simply not true and THAT is what i wanted to point out with my posting.. i wanted to show you some arguments of the opposite side but all you guys did say "they are wrong, i m right" (ok the only one who did that abdula but still its freaking me out and some of the others too...)
you are simply ignoring all of my arguments (and don't come to me and say that there arn't any... there is plenty of stuff that is worth thinking about
@Masa: There is no reason why Kabuto can't be the spy but no one is saying that from what we've seen of Sasori's jutsu almost anyone under Oro could be the spy. However its likely that Sasori would target as high ranking or trustworthy a person as possible like he did in the sand village with Yura no one suspected him of being a spy, thus Kabuto.
There really was no other reason for Kabuto to kill Sasuke other than jealousy, Oro knew that and that is why he was messing with Kabuto's head something he does with everyone. I don't know why some other people would think that Kabuto wanted to betray him. Oro's obsession with Sasuke was crazy I remember him constantly talking about wanting Sasuke's body giving me the creeps.
@ Kraco: Kabuto has shown plenty of initiative in the past maybe not ambitions but initiative. I don't think Oro has any intentions of teaching anyone anything unless its for his own benefit and since Kabuto was constantly compared to Kakashi I really don't think that only would necessarily have to teach him anything. He is already well trained and Tsunade herself said that Kabuto's jutsus are better than her own were when she was in her prime.
@KrayZ33: Sorry if it appears that everyone is ignoring you because I don't think anyone is certainly not me. You are right everyone is speculating but even speculations aren't without supporting evidence. That being said it doesn't really matter what happened in the past because Kishi could change everything at a moments notice. I feel honored that you mentioned my name so many times.:p
i dont think that someone like kabuto, who himself likes to play mindgames, would fall for something which just happened in an eye blink.
and the reason why Oro's did talk all the time about Sasuke is Naruto... Oro believes his influence is "bad" for Sasuke so he wants him as quick as possible.
Actually there is no reason for kabuto to be jealous this would only be the case when he wants Oro to transfer in HIS own body (and ooohhhhh we KNOW that Kabuto does take care of his life).. why you ask?
because if Oro would have destroyed Konoha he would simply take over sasukes body right there. that means that Sasuke would be dead right after the transfer.
so it would have been the same situation as before.
Oro would be "training" Kabuto (or whatever they did before) in Sasukes body which has the look of orichmaru (face + hair) etc.
so why should he kill him out of jealousy?
Kabuto didn't fall for anything he just got excited. Oro's influence being bad for Sasuke is bull, as we've seen Sasuke has a very strong will and the only thing that influences him is Itachi. Sasuke when to Oro of his own free will, he even had the most difficult battle he has had thus far just to get there, so he didn't go because of Oro's influence he went for power. The reason he left the leaf was because he felt he couldn't get any stronger if he stayed there and I would imagine that as soon as he gets what he wants from Oro he will leave him as well.
If Oro could've simply taken over Sasuke's body that easily he would've done it when he put the curse seal on him. From what I've seen thus far it would appear that his host body requires a lot of preparation before he can use it.
Like I said before Kabuto is a very competent ninja there would be no need for Oro to train him. The reason Oro has Kabuto in the first place is to help him conduct his experiments and preserve their bodies.
uhm sorry i might used the wrong word there, with "his influence" i mean "naruto's influence" (sry i think its my fault my english isnt that good :P)
and Oro did say that! not me...
and the body transfer does not need special preparations it does work very fast if you rewatch the episodes right before Kabuto sends Kimi you can see it. or at least these preparations were allrdy made at this point
and the reason why Oro did not take over Sasuke's body in the jungle is simply because he wanted to test him... he wanted to see if he is worth the effort and here again, its not me who says that, its Oro himself.
(btw that is true "evidence" :P)
It's easy to speculate when you knows the answer already. But true talent is in speculating in such a way that it can't be detected that you know already the answers. Anyway, if you don't like Abdula's speculation ignore it. At first it's annoying but after a while you get used to it. I don't know why Kabuto stays with Oro and I don't think there's any way to ever be certain of a characters true motivations since they can have an epiphany and completely change their mindset at anytime (Especially if Naruto is around).
What we do know is that Kabuto has risked his life to protect Oro when he could conceivably have escaped and he's had opportunities to poison or attack Oro in a weakened state but has not done so, and though he's bent them some I don't think we've ever seen him directly disobey an order. The reasons for his behavior could be almost anything though. Oro could have something over his head, Oro could have mind-fucked him into serving him, or he could just be completely in love with Oro's trouser snake...which is an actual snake of course...whatever his motivations may be, he is clearly willing to risk death for Oro's sake.
My favorite theory is that Kabuto has very mild multiple personality disorder. He has a soft side that's into serving and protecting Oro and his ambitions and then he has a nasty cold calculating side that's only concerned with achieving his current goal, whatever that may be. The way it seems to play out is his softer side dictates what he wants and his nasty side does whatever it takes to get it. The softer side which he seems to show Oro the most blends in with the face he puts up when pretending to be everyone's friend. The nasty side seems to be more evident anytime he's fighting or in a situation where he is interacting with people other than Oro but not pretending anything.
@Yukimura. In love with his trouser snake which is an actual snake. lol.
I don't think it can be considering speculating if you already know the answer. My theories on Kabuto are based on what we've seen in the anime. Its true there is no way to know what peoples true motivations are. No one really knows why Itachi killed the clan and Oro's supposed goal of wanting to learn every single jutsu was not something I think fit at all with his character not to mention that it is impossible.
Kabuto having MPD fits because something is definitely wrong in that dude's head. The side he shows when he is with Oro could be his dominant personally or it could simply be the one that comes out due to Oro's intimidating nature.
@ KrayZ33: Actually I do think it takes a while, not the jutsu itself but I think there must be some preparation time because the host body Oro used had apparently been his prisoner for quite sometime.
Anyway we don't really know anything that one is just my guess because there are some restrictions with the jutsu because apparently he can't just transfer from one body to another he has to stay in one body for at least three years. So I think that there would be some preparation not necessarily for him to perform the jutsu but for him to stay in it long term.
What else would the significance of the three years be and there is a reason why he put the heaven seal and the earth seal on Sasuke and Kimimaro the only two people he thought would be compatible hosts for him long term.
hmmm i did forget about what we were talking @ the beginning.... does someone remember that? i think i got a bit too much offtopic heh?
geez i shall stop my senseless speeches now.
btw im sure kabuto is the spy ^_^
What off topicness.
The only thing anybody talked about in this thread was the possibility of Yamato being related to Tsunade, Sai turning red(actually turning normal color), Naruto's perversion and the the cliff hanger at the end of the episode which led to the whole who is the spy discussion.
Are you just being funny again?
ya off-topic seems to be the wrong word (thats why i wrote it as a question because i m not sure if it really is offtopic) but the discussion is totally usleess
because we arn't going anywhere here... i can't believe Kabuto likes Orochimaru and you can't believe that Kabuto would betray him... so there is no point to keep that conversation going.
Amen, fortunatly the next one comes out tonight at we can start all over again.
i m looking forward to it... actually, its very amusing ^_^