Naruto Chapter 380

Fresh off the presses.

(Jiraya looks in disdain at the 6 Pein bodies)
Jiraya: Y-you.....
Ma: Jiraya-Chan, did you discover something?
(Jiraya turns over to Ma)
Jiraya: Yeah.... turns out I was wrong about my earlier statement just now....
Pa: What? What do you mean?
Jiraya: I mean.... they aren't 3 different people with the ability to see through each other's eyes...
(1 of the Pein bodies jump forward towards Jiraya)
Ma: Watch out!!
(Jiraya jumps out of the way and Pein punches the ground)
Jiraya: *Crap! If this goes on we're toad meat! Also... I'm running out of chakra, meaning I won't be able to hold hermit mode for much longer.....* Damn it!
???: PEIN! WHAT ARE YOU DOING? Why are you here??
(A dark figure appears from the alley behind Pein)
???: Oh? Now I see..... Even if it still is the great sannin Jiraya, didn't you defeat Hanzhou?
Pein: What are YOU doing here?
???: I was just about to get outta this scrap you call a city... Hmph.... I can't believe you had to bring out the "Rain Rikudo".
(The figure walks out of the darkness. He reveals himself to be Tobi)
Jiraya: *Who is that?!*
(Sharingan is shown through Tobi's eye hole.)
Jiraya/Ma/Pa: !!!!
(Ma turns to Jiraya)
Ma: HEY! That's the Sharingan! Who the hell is he?!
Jiraya: I don't know! If it's not Itachi......
(Frame focuses on Tobi)
Jiraya: THEN JUST WHO THE HELL IS HE?!

End Script.

You won't be getting anything more from dragonmanga. Something happened to the damned website. Geez...

(Please note that neither is this an exact script from DragonManga nor is this absolutely what will happen in the real manga)

Verification: Pending
Type: Script Summary
Source: dragonmanga.com / mangahelpers
Credits: unknown / narutomustwin
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2nd 380 Spoiler Summary

Jiriaya recognises the six body combo as a technique that the late Uzamaki Kushin used to use with Kage bushin. Jiriaya asks pain were he got the inspiration for his technique and pain responds that he once faced a powerfull shinobi from the former legendary whirpool village who attempted to use the same strategy against him. He futher tells jiriaya that it may have worked had she not been tired from just recently having a child. There is a flashback of Uzamaki Kushina fighting pain(in the Yahiko looking body) and winning only to become tired out and have her bushin disappear. Pain sends a black tenticle through her heart and she falls over dieing. At this point Minato appears instantly(i assume this is because of harishin) and is told by kushina that where baby naruto is. Minato dissappears and then appears instantly with baby naruto in his arms...at this point kushina is dead. Minato uses kushina's blood to draw several seals on baby naruto's stomatch. Pain tells Minato that he is a failure as a hokage who couldn't even save his own wife and very soon his only son. The long hair pain appears behinde Minato and stabs him in the back with a kunai. Pain looks horrified and asks Minato why he didn't dodge the attack. Minato responds that his life will soon be over there is no reason to defend himself, but his legacy will live on and that his child will some day kill Pain. Pain laughs at Minato and asks him just what kinda of prophet is he. Minato simply disappears and the flashback ends. Pain tell jiriaya that he doesn't believe in fate, but its most be fate that its his destiny to not only eliminate the mother, father, teacher, but after this battle is over the child. Chapter Ends

Those are both terribly stupid summaries so neither of them are probably real. It's always interesting to see the fake chapter summaries but most of them are usually really really bad. Guess my favorite ones are when they have fake manga pics to go along with the summaries.

Jiraiya: You are...that face...are you not Yahiko? What exactly happened? Yahiko was dead...moreover those eyes...
Pain: You see the shadow of Yahiko in me? No doubt you are the teacher in the past. However, Yahiko is indeed dead. The person here is Pain.
Jiraiya: Don't give me this bullshit! Why do you possess the Rin'negan?
One of the frogs (probably): What is the matter, Jiraiya chan?
Jiraiya: My disciple in the past is among them. But that kid did not have that eye before.
Frog: What is happening right now? There are 2 children of prophecy among them?
Jiraiya: Is it Yahiko...is it Nagato...? What are you all exactly?
Pain: We are Pain...a god.
Tsunade: the hateful rain continues to pour...
Shizune: Since it is Jiraiya sama, he should be fine...he will arrive in good time...
Tsunade: I am betting on that fellow not returning. Surely it must be the losing bet.
Shizune: Yes...

Karin: A great chakra! And it's fast! Coming!
Suigetsu: You are...!
Kisame: Sasuke kun shall proceed alone from here. This is Itachi san's orders...Could the rest of you wait here please?
Sasuke: I understand. Having the entire squad move in will be a hindrance to a one-on-one battle...I'm fine with it.
Karin: Sasuke! You can't do that! We need to defeat this guy in order to proceed!
Kisame: I don't feel like fighting. However, if you wish to force your way in, I won't go easy with you.
Sasuke: Karin...you guys wait here. This is my revenge.
Suigetsu: Hoshigaki Kisame...and the great sword - Samehada...have you forgotten me? I'm the younger brother of Houzuki Mangetsu, my name is Houzuki Suigetsu.
Kisame: Oh...you look different! You have grown up, Suigetsu.
Suigetsu: There's nothing to do while waiting for Sasuke to return...shall we have some fun...Kisame sempai!
Kisame: You're a rascal different from your elder brother. Maybe I should shave you a bit.
Juugou: Suigetsu, is it okay to not follow Sasuke's words?

Scene changes again
Tobi: Oh dear, meeting you Konoha ninjas here so suddenly...moreover, eight against one is really a bad timing...
Kakashi: This fellow is not recorded in Kabuto's list of remaining Akatsuki members...
Tobi: I'm a newbie, nice to meet you.
Kakashi: Don't make any careless movements...looking at the situation...we have advantage over numbers.
Tobi: Arara...are you underestimating me?
Naruto forms a Rasengan from the back.
Naruto: Get out of my way!
Tobi: Kuwa...what's that...
Naruto went through Tobi's body.

Scene change
Itachi: With that Sharingan...to what extent can you see?
Sasuke: To what extent can I see? Now, what my eyes can see is you, Itachi...in your death.

Confirmed spoiler text from VASSiLi on Mangahelpers

Sounds fake to me.

Well, good for you.

Incomplete raw is out, personally I think image10-1 goes after image14-1(you'll see what I mean)

http://www.mediafire.com/?fs6k4do9ljh

The file seemed fine to me.

Interesting chapter. We finally get to see the rest of the characters.

So wait...who was the first one to draw the connection between Yahiko and akatsuki Pain?

Yeah, that's right

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AssertnFailure

So wait...who was the first one to draw the connection between Yahiko and akatsuki Pain?

Yeah, that's right

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Kishimoto? He did draw the manga after all.

complete raw.... http://www.narutofan.com/downloads/1/naruto_380raw.zip

and its not jumbled...

thats a first for me... :o

Dammnit what a way to end a chapter.... basically a cliff hanger in every scene. A good sum up of all the fights coming up, namely the current battle between Jiraiya and Peins, Sasuke and Itachi, Suigetsu vs Kisame, and best of all Tobi vs Konoha. Can't wait for the next chapter.

Naruto 380 Raw - for people not affiliated with NarutoFan

[MS] Naruto 380

Finally we all get to see what we wanted to in the first place well at least I do, it took long enough.

Jiraiya's demise is imminent Tsunade betting against him pretty much assures that.

I was laughing at Tobi, that battle looks like it is going to be very interesting although I don't expect him to fight back much he seems to only be there to delay Naruto and the others from disturbing Sasuke and Itachi. Speaking of those two we may finally get to see the battle that has been years in the making, the big one we have all been looking forward to. Me personally wishing that none of them die just so the suspense could continue.

Anyway I am so happy that I'm finally getting to see two of the mist ninja face off. As a group I think the Hidden Mist Swordsmen are my favorite in Naruto, simply because of the mysticism surrounding them, and I've always wanted to know more about them, and we're finally getting to see Suigetsu fight.

I don't think there has ever been anything cooler in any manga/anime than The Swordsmen of the hidden mist. I mean when you combine swordsmen and ninja you just can't go wrong and I can't think of anything that could possibly be cooler.

Edit: Again we get to see an example of just how much of a block head Naruto is. Not only did he disregard what Kakashi said and charged blindly at an unknown opponent but he didn't even use a shadow clone to do it. The dude has gone completely out since this mission started and he just keeps getting more and more emotional.

Did I see his whiskers becoming more prominent combine that with the fact that his rasengan was completely useless and I think we all know what happens when the idiot get frustrated. Every time I try to cut the idiot some slack he does something completely stupid. Does he really think sneaking up behind an Akatsuki level opponent would work and doesn't he know that that level of rasengan won't work on them I mean he has yet to connect one on any of them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abdula

Finally we all get to see what we wanted to in the first place well at least I do, it took long enough.

Jiraiya's demise is imminent Tsunade betting against him pretty much assures that.

I was laughing at Tobi, that battle looks like it is going to be very interesting although I don't expect him to fight back much he seems to only be there to delay Naruto and the others from disturbing Sasuke and Itachi. Speaking of those two we may finally get to see the battle that has been years in the making, the big one we have all been looking forward to. Me personally wishing that none of them die just so the suspense could continue.

Anyway I am so happy that I'm finally getting to see two of the mist ninja face off. As a group I think the Hidden Mist Swordsmen are my favorite in Naruto, simply because of the mysticism surrounding them, and I've always wanted to know more about them, and we're finally getting to see Suigetsu fight.

I don't think there has ever been anything cooler in any manga/anime than The Swordsmen of the hidden mist. I mean when you combine swordsmen and ninja you just can't go wrong and I can't think of anything that could possibly be cooler.

Edit: Again we get to see an example of just how much of a block head Naruto is. Not only did he disregard what Kakashi said and charged blindly at an unknown opponent but he didn't even use a shadow clone to do it. The dude has gone completely out since this mission started and he just keeps getting more and more emotional.

Did I see his whiskers becoming more prominent combine that with the fact that his rasengan was completely useless and I think we all know what happens when the idiot get frustrated. Every time I try to cut the idiot some slack he does something completely stupid. Does he really think sneaking up behind an Akatsuki level opponent would work and doesn't he know that that level of rasengan won't work on them I mean he has yet to connect one on any of them.

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There are so many fights added on now. Hopefully they won't keep switching around.

I was hoping that Jiraiya wouldn't bit it, but I have to agree with you. Tsunade's bet really makes it look likely that hes going to die.

Also Naruto is really acting like an ass, it's really like he hasn't learned a thing. I think he did use a kage bunshin though to attack Tobi but it was still a bad idea. I'm more interested in how Tobi was able to avoid the Rasengan. Was it just an illusion, the jutsu the Akatsuki use to communicate, or a new technique?

Tobi did the same thing to Sasuke I have no idea what it is. I don't think its an illusion because Sasuke's sharingan should have seen through it if it was.

Naruto is a complete dumbass, I thought it was a clone that attacked him too and so did Tobi but he said "not" so I'm guessing it wasn't. If he is doing the same thing he did to Deidara and Kakuzu then the one using the ransegan would be the original and since the clone didn't automatically disperse like it usually does I'm guessing its the real Naruto. Either way the dude is still an idiot especially if it was the real one that attacked Tobi.

I forgot to mention how much I loved Pein's whole speech and the "We are God" line is priceless. Itachi sitting on that throne. Awesome!

I could go on and on about those two because now that Oro is 'gone' they are without question my two favorite characters. Suigetsu and Kisame are up there as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deadlydreamx

[MS] Naruto 380

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Link no worky for me. :(

I'm guessing all the Mangashare servers are hammered heavily, or just down cause their main site nor the download link is working.

I uploaded 380 Mangashare to mediafire
http://www.mediafire.com/?3ng0kmf3to3
use it if you can't get it from them


Well Tsunade won JACKPOT. I wonder who will bring her prize. Naruto reached new level of idioticy(if that even possible for him) of not using bushing to gather intelligence on Toby but his own body. But he did got recon on his ability.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Death13a

I uploaded 380 Mangashare to mediafire
http://www.mediafire.com/?3ng0kmf3to3
use it if you can't get it from them


Well Tsunade won JACKPOT. I wonder who will bring her prize. Naruto reached new level of idioticy(if that even possible for him) of not using bushing to gather intelligence on Toby but his own body. But he did got recon on his ability.

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Dude, you rock. Thanks. Yeah, Naruto is a moron. When confronted by an enemy of Akatsuki's standard, you probably shouldn't initiate a fight until you know his objective. Especially if you have him outnumbered 8 to 1. That was just ridiculous.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abdula

Jiraiya's demise is imminent Tsunade betting against him pretty much assures that.

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Tsunade has never won a bet once. That's why she was in debt when Naruto brought her back to Konoha. The reason she bets against Jiraiya now is because she expects her bad luck to hold, and Jiraiya to return home safely, causing her to lose the bet.

I couldn't care less about Suigetsu fighting Kisame (Juugo is the only member of team Hebi that I like, besides Sasuke), but I'm looking forward to every other fight. I wonder why Tobi is acting like an idiot again? He seemed serious when he showed the Sharingan a dozen chapters back. Is he acting to fool Konoha? And the fact that Kakashi is in the group that encountered him may lead o something not entirely unexpected......

I dont think when tobi said not he was referring to the thought if that was a clone or not. I think he said not in like a kidding way.. cuz it lookd like naruto's rasengan connected n then tobi played him out by sayin "not".

He feigned it like it hurt him.

Anyways, I like his personality this way.

Why do you all think Naruto is a dumbass? If anything, that was a great tactic, sneaking behind your enemy while he doesn't notice you. If it was anybody elses body, that Rasengan would have done some damage. It just sucks for Naruto that Tobi is like immortal or some crap. Even if it didn't work, they are still back to square 1 with the scenario still being Tobi is outnumbered 8-1.

Anyways.... I don't want Jiraiya to die. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Id3aLiStiC

Why do you all think Naruto is a dumbass? If anything, that was a great tactic, sneaking behind your enemy while he doesn't notice you. If it was anybody elses body, that Rasengan would have done some damage. It just sucks for Naruto that Tobi is like immortal or some crap. Even if it didn't work, they are still back to square 1 with the scenario still being Tobi is outnumbered 8-1.

Anyways.... I don't want Jiraiya to die. :(

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Agreed. Tobi was seriously outnumbered. Kakashi was full of shit when he said that not attacking and just "observing" Tobi was a good idea. In fact, I bet it was a feint. He knows his teammates pretty well.

Protip: When you have the advantage, USE IT. Especially if it doesn't cost you anything. The Naruto haters should read Clausewitz's "On War".

Edit: Also, this chapter confirms why Kisame is my favorite Akatsuki member. Sure, others are more interesting plot-wise, but his politeness and strength are just too bad ass.

Yeah what is up with the idiots calling Naruto dumb? There was nothing wrong in what Naruto did, and was probably the most ninja-esque thing we've seen this whole arc.

Also, Tsunade betting against Jiraiya is obviously not a bad omen for Jiraiya. The bad omen was when Tsunade said Jiraiya wouldn't have to put up a front for her anymore. Naturally, anyone that Tsunade starts to like ends up dying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AssertnFailure

Yeah what is up with the idiots calling Naruto dumb? There was nothing wrong in what Naruto did, and was probably the most ninja-esque thing we've seen this whole arc.

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It's funny, because he basically still acts the same as he used to. He's always taken the initiative (though he's gotten better at being effective). The difference is that he's strong enough to back up the initiation of force.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AssertnFailure

Yeah what is up with the idiots calling Naruto dumb? There was nothing wrong in what Naruto did, and was probably the most ninja-esque thing we've seen this whole arc.

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Because Assert, actions don't speak louder than words in this situation. And because Naruto is dumb. He uses rasengan as a bail out to everything. You can predict every move he'll ever do from now will have a 60% chance of clone + rasengan. It's lame. He's lame.

I doubt he wants anyone to know hes the leader or anything like that. Like he said, he's the "newcomer to the group."

I'm a bit interest in the Itachi and Sasuke fight, but I hope Itachi rips him a new one.

Jiraya ... one of my favorite characters back from when we first met him. I want him to come back and father many children with Tsunade... the pervert deserves that much at least.

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Originally Posted by conquistaDan

Because Assert, actions don't speak louder than words in this situation. And because Naruto is dumb. He uses rasengan as a bail out to everything. You can predict every move he'll ever do from now will have a 60% chance of clone + rasengan. It's lame. He's lame.

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I agree with Assertn. I didn't expect him to be able to sneak behind someone like that, and what's wrong with him using the rasengan? Its a very effective technique if used correctly. If he did that to a normal person, they'd be hurting. I mean if you have a killer technique, why not use it? (See Saito in Rurouni Kenshin)

When I first read it this chapter seemed fairly boring, but after stewing on it for several hours I think it was great. Suigetsu vs Kisame set up (I don't expect we'll actually see this fight), Sasuke vs Itachi set up, Tobi pwning large quantities of noob set up, and Jiraiya getting potentially owned set up, all in one chapter.

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Originally Posted by rockmanj

I agree with Assertn. I didn't expect him to be able to sneak behind someone like that, and what's wrong with him using the rasengan? Its a very effective technique if used correctly. If he did that to a normal person, they'd be hurting. I mean if you have a killer technique, why not use it? (See Saito in Rurouni Kenshin)

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Problem is, he didn't "sneak" up behind him since Tobi was all ready for it.

From a tactical point of view, there was nothing wrong with what Naruto did in my opinion.

The only reason Tobi was "ready" for it was because he is suppose to be this "godly" ninja and there was no way Kishimito would let him take any damage that easily.

Actually, my interpretation was a bit different than the common one I'm seeing. I thought that the real Naruto was just then returning from his encounter with Itachi, and saw that Tobi had met with the other Konoha nin. This would explain why he had the "insight" to set up a clone and strike from the shadows: he left the clone there for recon purposes while the real Naruto and several other clones spread out. When he came back, the trap was already set. At least, that's what I figured.

It seemed like Tobi was really taken by surprise, but was either still able to dodge it, or maybe his body isn't affected by attacks. That's probably the most intriguing of all the battles set up. We've seen enough of the Jiriya/Pain fight to know what it's about, we know the majority of Itachi's and Sasuke's moves, we know Suigetsu and Kisame enough to know their styles, but Tobi is a complete mystery. Well, we know he has Sharingan, but there's no telling what kind of powers he can use with it. I'm excited. I can't wait for the next chapter.

Tobi has gone back to his normal personality I'm assuming because he is out in the open again the only time we saw him being serious was when he was with Pein. I don't think Tobi is going to reveal that he has the Sharingan because he didn't do it when we was with Sasuke so I don't think he would do it now. He just seems to be there to delay them like I said before and since he has gone back to his kid like personality I don't see him getting serious in this battle. Kakashi is there though so he might reveal the sharingan but that would depend on if he is pushed to fight and since they apparently can't even hit him I don't see that happening. Would be interesting if he did though, I bet we all know what the first thing to go through Kakshi's mind would be.

Naruto is an idiot, you know why because Kakashi told him not to do anything and secondly this isn't any normal opponent they are facing it an Akatsuki which requires that you be extremely cautious. Secondly, he has no idea who Tobi is because he was not in the book Kabuto gave them so he has no idea what he can/can't do.

Thirdly, the reason I say he is an idiot is because the first thing he does when he sees an opponent is charge at them. He did the same thing to Deidara didn't work, Kakuzu didn't work, Orochimaru didn't work, Itachi didn't work, Kabuto didn't work, so I have no idea why he thought it might work on Tobi.

Not because Tobi has some strange abilities or anything but because he is an Akatsuki and Naruto sneaking up behind his opponents didn't work even back when they were all genin so I don't know why he thinks a simple tactic like sneaking up behind an opponent would work now. It didn't work on genin so why would it work on Akatsuki who are all supposed to be super elite ninja.

Tsunade issued an order during the previous arc to go on the offensive to eradicate the remaining akatsuki. Since Tobi is a member, his elimination is in the best interests of Konoha as well. The only person who could be captured alive is Itachi, but only if they can't find Sasuke any other way (and if they don't get rid of Tobi, then they'll lose track of Sasuke again).

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Originally Posted by Abdula

Thirdly, the reason I say he is an idiot is because the first thing he does when he sees an opponent is charge at them. He did the same thing to Deidara didn't work, Kakuzu didn't work, Orochimaru didn't work, Itachi didn't work, Kabuto didn't work, so I have no idea why he thought it might work on Tobi.

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That's just a plot device to prolong battles against the major villains.
Sasuke tried to insta-kill Tobi when him and Deidara showed up as well.

Its not a plot device. If you're going to look at it that way then most of the battle tactics in Naruto could simply be labeled as plot devices, Naruto is just an idiot.

Sasuke has exceptional speed which is the only reason he tried that because not only did he have the sharingan so he could clearly see all of Tobi actions he had enough speed to counter him in the event that he did do something. That is the same logic he used when he was fighting Gaara during the chuunin exam.

Yes, I know Tsunade issued the order but that is not their mission. Secondly it was what 8 on 1 if they have a chance to kill Tobi it would only be because they are all together. Hinata has the Byakugan, Kakashi has the sharingan, Kiba can sense how strong an opponent is by smelling their chakra, and there is still Yamato, Shino and others so there was no need for Naruto to do what he did. They have enough abilities to analyze the situation and possibly neutralize Tobi, all he had to do was wait and let them assess the situation and come up with a plan of attack.

Naruto is an idiot.

Naruto manga > everything....


They have like two seconds of getting Konoha's impressions on Tobi then straight to Naruto's assassination attempt. Not 10 minutes of looking at all their different facial expressions and staring each other down.

I wish they would just let kishimoto get a team and animate pretty much all manga and just air 15 min episodes. I used to the think the filler shit is alright but it really kills the flow of what should be face paced ninja action.


Yeah I'm baked and haven't typed this much on here in years.

Peace.

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Originally Posted by Abdula

Sasuke has exceptional speed which is the only reason he tried that because not only did he have the sharingan so he could clearly see all of Tobi actions he had enough speed to counter him in the event that he did do something. That is the same logic he used when he was fighting Gaara during the chuunin exam.

Yes, I know Tsunade issued the order but that is not their mission. Secondly it was what 8 on 1 if they have a chance to kill Tobi it would only be because they are all together. Hinata has the Byakugan, Kakashi has the sharingan, Kiba can sense how strong an opponent is by smelling their chakra, and there is still Yamato, Shino and others so there was no need for Naruto to do what he did. They have enough abilities to analyze the situation and possibly neutralize Tobi, all he had to do was wait and let them assess the situation and come up with a plan of attack.

Naruto is an idiot.

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How is exceptional speed more acceptable than a kage bunshin ambush?
You say that the speed is advantageous for being able to counter attacks, but we've already seen Naruto utilize kage bunshins against Kakuzu right off the bat to allow him to analyze Kakuzu's attack strategy...how is this different?

Ok, clearly Naruto made a bad move, and the Abdula-approved tactic would have been to quietly dispell the additional kage bunshins that Naruto has in the woods, even though a kage bunshin with rasengan was already hidden to the enemy, because there was a possibility that the kage bunshin could fail.

Haha i loved this chapter, the return of the old tobi personality. Anyone else think of Borat when that happened? "NOT!!!"

Anyways, i liked the set up with Tobi vs 8, Suigetsu vs Kisame and Sasuke vs Uchiha. It looks like Jiraiya may end up the way of Asuma, but at least its down fighting six peins. And I found it surprising that Tsunade takes this moment out of all places to confess her feelings for Jiraiya, would've helped ya know, before he went on a suicide mission against Akatsuki.

I hope Jiraiya comes out alive, he's one of my favourite characters, but at this point, looks like Tsunade's bet is going to win for once.

Pain can still use the BLIND one with the five remaining set of eyes.

Soooooooo jacked up..... hmmm time to replace that one lol

GO SASUKE! Although it doesn't look like Itachi wants to fight, common spill them beans about WHY YOU KILLED THE WHOLE CLAN ALREADY!

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Originally Posted by AssertnFailure

How is exceptional speed more acceptable than a kage bunshin ambush?
You say that the speed is advantageous for being able to counter attacks, but we've already seen Naruto utilize kage bunshins against Kakuzu right off the bat to allow him to analyze Kakuzu's attack strategy...how is this different?

Ok, clearly Naruto made a bad move, and the Abdula-approved tactic would have been to quietly dispell the additional kage bunshins that Naruto has in the woods, even though a kage bunshin with rasengan was already hidden to the enemy, because there was a possibility that the kage bunshin could fail.

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I'd have to agree with Abdula on this one. Making a kage bunshin + rasengan takes out a fair amount of chakra that could have been used better. Most of us are angry at Naruto, not because he did the rasengan+kage bunshin, BUT because he always does it without even thinking about anything. He lets his emotion control his actions. Thats a major weakness in a ninja, who is suppose to be devoid of emotions.

Kakashi is a skilled ninja with extra analyzing ability (sharingan) who makes logical and safe decisions in times of crisis. If your leader is Kakashi, and he tells you to do something, as a subordinate ninja, you should definately listen to someone who has more experience than you, especially if its Kakashi.

I agree that Naruto using his bunshin could make the enemy reveal his fighting style, BUT, Naruto also revealed to Tobi that he could use a kage bunshin and a very powerful melee chakra attack. This makes Tobi extra cautious in the future battle with Naruto from staying very close to him.

Finally, Naruto has had experiences with Akatsuki before. He's not a 12 year old little boy anymore. He's gotten stronger and better. However, he still shows signs of his younger self by ignoring his battle experience instinct that tells him Akatsuki is dead serious and charges at one without analyzing. By doing that, he is practically refusing to observe and plan ahead, so us manga readers are extremely frustrated about it.

Naruto IS a damn idiot

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Originally Posted by February

I'd have to agree with Abdula on this one. Making a kage bunshin + rasengan takes out a fair amount of chakra that could have been used better. Most of us are angry at Naruto, not because he did the rasengan+kage bunshin, BUT because he always does it without even thinking about anything. He lets his emotion control his actions. Thats a major weakness in a ninja, who is suppose to be devoid of emotions.

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NO. kage bunshin + rasengan takes VERY minimal chakra from Naruto.
Did you forget how he had entire day-training sessions of thousands of kage bunshins all performing rasengans? Plus the kage bunshins were already made prior to Tobi showing up. Sure he's emotional, but that didn't make his attack irrational.

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Kakashi is a skilled ninja with extra analyzing ability (sharingan) who makes logical and safe decisions in times of crisis. If your leader is Kakashi, and he tells you to do something, as a subordinate ninja, you should definately listen to someone who has more experience than you, especially if its Kakashi.

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What if Kakashi said that to put Tobi into a false sense of security? Obviously Kakashi's not going to say "Naruto, attack him from behind!" The more likely scenario, Kakashi probably didn't know Naruto had a trap already set up.
Meh, minor details regardless.

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I agree that Naruto using his bunshin could make the enemy reveal his fighting style, BUT, Naruto also revealed to Tobi that he could use a kage bunshin and a very powerful melee chakra attack. This makes Tobi extra cautious in the future battle with Naruto from staying very close to him.

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Naruto thought he could kill Tobi then and there. In any other shounen series, people always bitch about characters sandbagging all the time. Now people bitch about characters that go straight for the kill. I think the good guys had more to gain from Tobi revealing that physical attacks pass right through him than Tobi had to gain from Naruto revealing that he has the rasengan.

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Finally, Naruto has had experiences with Akatsuki before. He's not a 12 year old little boy anymore. He's gotten stronger and better. However, he still shows signs of his younger self by ignoring his battle experience instinct that tells him Akatsuki is dead serious and charges at one without analyzing. By doing that, he is practically refusing to observe and plan ahead, so us manga readers are extremely frustrated about it.

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Naruto charging is his way of analyzing. Doing it with clones is his new smart way of analyzing.

Naruto is not an idiot.

Finally sugetsu and shino are gonna fight. Good call naruto by using a sneak attack to test the enemy. Now kakashi and company have a better chance to analyse the enemy's strategy. No physical damage for tobi.

Well yahiko cant possibly be pein. Now that we know that the rin'nengan can be projected through others he probably uses the bodies as human puppets. I personally think this just might be an elevated form of a marrionette technique via rin'nengan. That would explain the containers that hold pein's bodies. They could be perservation tanks. But i would assume that would consume a massive amount of chakra.

And is it me or do the uchihas just have a lot of money and landmarks. There seem to be a lot of random sites that are in and around konoha. They must have gained a lot more prestige and money during the 15 years they have been around. That police force they ran must have been extremely lucrative and momentous.

Smash bros makes dudes crazy fellas. My bad. Back to the anime :P

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Originally Posted by AssertnFailure

How is exceptional speed more acceptable than a kage bunshin ambush?
You say that the speed is advantageous for being able to counter attacks, but we've already seen Naruto utilize kage bunshins against Kakuzu right off the bat to allow him to analyze Kakuzu's attack strategy...how is this different?

Ok, clearly Naruto made a bad move, and the Abdula-approved tactic would have been to quietly dispell the additional kage bunshins that Naruto has in the woods, even though a kage bunshin with rasengan was already hidden to the enemy, because there was a possibility that the kage bunshin could fail.

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We don't know for sure whether Naruto used a shadow clone or not, if it was anybody else I would've thought for sure that it was a clone but with Naruto you never know. Whether he used the shadow clone or not doesn't matter because what he did was unnecessary and ninjas aren't supposed to be making such hasty decisions.

I thought he had already dispelled the other clones when he found out where Sasuke was. My tactic would simply be to asses the situation and come up with a plan of attack and Naruto's clones would of course be a big part of that plan because they are difficult to deal with. My point is that what Naruto did was completely foolish because they already have a clear advantage even if Tobi is stronger than everyone of them individually it is very unlikely that he would be able to deal with them as a group especially considering the diversity of their abilities. I don't know how anyone would be able to deal with Naruto, Sakura, Shino's bugs, Kakashi's Sharingan, Hinata's Byakugan, Yamato's jutsu etc all by themselves.

Kurenai's team is specialized in tracking and since it was their mission to find either Sasuke or Itachi they won't be returning until it is completed. Naruto only rushed at Tobi because he is so emotional about Sasuke. Sasuke is not his biggest problem right now Tobi is and Naruto in his haste is overlooking him. They already know where Sasuke is and even if they lose him with their abilities he would be easy enough to find because he is not attempting to hide himself whatsoever.

Anyway Naruto in essence just showed the enemy his hand which really doesn't matter much since Tobi already knows his abilities. Oh and Naruto didn't do what he did because of any strategy. Don't fool yourselves into believing such nonsense, Naruto only did it because like he said every time he gets close to Sasuke something gets in his way, and if I'm sneaking up on an opponent from behind then shouting at him to get out of my way pretty much takes away the element of surprise now doesn't. Its not as if he just sneaked up on him and attacked like what Kakashi did to Kakuzu he yelled at him well before then and gave away his position so even if you allow yourself to believe that Naruto attacked Tobi because of some strategic decision making, then yelling at him would just be another example of how Naruto is an idiot.

This situation is not the first or only thing that is influencing my opinion of Naruto. Liking a character doesn't mean you have to stand up for every decision he makes. Naruto is too emotional so whether you are a ninja or not if you let your emotions control your decision making too much you will end up making some idiotic decisions. Naruto obviously doesn't have the ability to control his emotions and him being a ninja only makes it more evident, that is why I say Naruto is an idiot.


Thank you February.

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Originally Posted by toonice714

And is it me or do the uchihas just have a lot of money and landmarks. There seem to be a lot of random sites that are in and around konoha. They must have gained a lot more prestige and money during the 15 years they have been around. That police force they ran must have been extremely lucrative and momentous.

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They been around since before Konoha was founded, but you are right though they seem to haves tons of shit scattered all over the place, but that would make sense if they were an ancient clan whose bloodline was passed down from generation to generation.

tldr;

Actually you didn't really disprove any of my arguments, and this is pretty much the point of the debate where I'd just be wasting my time saying anything else.

Except that having February on your side isn't necessarily a good thing :)

There isn't really anything to disprove as we could both be right, its more of a counterargument.

Loled, at your February comment. He made some good points though. Today has just been a weird day for me its not normal for me to have anyone agree with me.

Naruto is rash, doesn't think like Shikamaru, acts like a clown at times, but he is not an idiot. He defeated Neji, Gaara, and Kabuto using planned strategies. He was made to look more like an idiot through the 1 year filler period, using rasengan to make noodles, etc.

Anyway, my point is that he's not dumb. And he's also the number 1 ninja at surprising people.

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Originally Posted by Psyke

And he's also the number 1 ninja at surprising people.

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I gotta go with Assertn and Psyke on this one. Ninjas are known for sneak attacks and such, and Just because Kakashi said one thing doesn't mean he was necessarily telling the truth...its a little thing called deception; and actually Assertn made all the points i was going to. Basically what i'm saying is...getting the drop on your enemy, especially as a ninja couldn't really be a bad thing.

Well lets see Naruto has a Hoard of clones currently in the area its far from a stretch to assume that it was a shadow clone attacking Tobi and not the actual Naruto who has no reason to not be with the rest of the group.

Also Tobi identified it as a shadow clone and the not is clearly directed at how the attack didn't do anything. Please note specifically there is a panel between him saying its a shadow clone and him saying not where he makes a noise like he was hit by the attack.

Naruto is rash at times but usually only due to the Kyuubi's influence that isn't a fault the character can help and due to his training and going 4 tails its been more of a issue post time skip then before as a plot point more then a character flaw.

Honestly I find it much more likely that Naruto was making a strategic attack here then any sort of idiotic rush in head on move.

oh gosh..Im getting bashed... Give me a break guys : ( I am already depressed because college finals are coming up

Despite my opinion, there is something I can give credit for Naruto for. He improved so much over the series. Does anyone remember when he couldn't even make a proper regular bunshin? Now he make a kage bunshin like he inhales air. I guess he improved one of the most in the series through hard work.

I just wish he would change his outfit. Orange& Black jumpsuit outfit is.......o...ka..y...

Um, if it was anyone else I would give them some credit for strategy. I would give it to Naruto except for the fact that he has a history of making rash, uneducated, emotionally motivated decisions combine that with his rhetoric and then describing this particular action as anything but Naruto just being an idiot again doesn't make sense. So that will be my stand until its proven otherwise.

I know you people like Naruto but come on, think of all the things Naruto has done and then tell me he is not an idiot.

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Originally Posted by Psyke

Naruto is rash, doesn't think like Shikamaru, acts like a clown at times, but he is not an idiot. He defeated Neji, Gaara, and Kabuto using planned strategies. He was made to look more like an idiot through the 1 year filler period, using rasengan to make noodles, etc.

Anyway, my point is that he's not dumb. And he's also the number 1 ninja at surprising people.

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How can being rash and acting like a clown not be described as idiot. By definition all that is necessary for one to be considered an idiot is for them to have bad judgment so whether this was a bad move to make or not is up for debate. As with most battles what is or isn't a good move can only be judged in hindsight. Naruto however has consistently shown that he makes bad judgment calls therefore he is in my opinion an idiot. Enough Said.

Um, I know there is absolutely no way I could look good if I attack a nice guy like Psyke but... Anyway I didn't watch the fillers and that is not what I'm basing my assessment of Naruto on and Naruto defeating Neji, Gaara and Kabuto atleast in my opinion didn't make any sense. There was absolutely no way Naruto should've won those battles and they certainly weren't done well enough for anyone to say that Naruto was any good.

Anyway I could go into a long rant about why I hated the way those battles were done, not because Naruto one but because of the way the battle themselves were executed. Technically Naruto didn't beat Kabuto, the Sannin and Shizune aside if the battle had ended with the rasengan, Naruto would've been dead and Kabuto would've walked away.

Bloody hell, what's with this new breed of gotwoot member... you all write waaaaay too much.

Naruto rushing from behind, well its not that dumb. It could have worked. Why try it again when it didn't work in the past? Because he is now stronger/faster than before, so it could work.

I was thinking the same thing, DB. I know I rarely post on here but I can barely be bothered to read all of Abdula's paragraphs (no offense).

That aside, I liked the chapter. As with a lot of people I find it weird that Naruto is automatically qualified as an idiot to some people because he attacks without apparently thinking it through, and because he performs the same type of attack every time. I think the anime has butchered peoples' feelings towards Naruto since he used Rasengan + Shadow clone so much, whereas in the manga it's nowhere near that. And who knows, maybe he did fully analyze the situation; you can't conclude he's an idiot from just two panels.

Looking forward to all the fights, especially the Kisame vs Suigetsu.

Well, i think we should wait for Kishi to release the next chapter before we make any 'Naruto is an idiot' judgments. After all, this argument is basically overanalyzing what? three panels in this chapter, thats not really a lot of information to use. I would wait to see Kakashi or the other Ninja's reaction to Naruto's rash attack before saying 'he's an idiot.'

I'm going with DB on this one. Rash, but not without reason, he is after all, trained by the great Jiraiya, he had to have improved.

Personally if I were Naruto, I'd probably do the same thing. After all he gains knowledge from his clones after they're disposed of. Even so, it's not a risk to send out a clone. Who knows, he might learn something from the enemy sending out a surprise attack like that. In this case Naruto and his team mates just realised they might have trouble touching Tobi.

I think Tobi is a ghost. Think about it, first Sasuke cut him in half and now Naruto hit with a rasengan. Both times it had no effect. Tobi seems to every where at once first he is there when Sasuke fought Deidera then meeting with Pain then on top of the statue and now he is fighting Naruto.

Does it look like Itachi is sitting at the top of an Aztec shrine to anybody else?

Actually it did. It looked like he was sitting on top an ancient throne.

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Originally Posted by DeathscytheVII

Well, i think we should wait for Kishi to release the next chapter before we make any 'Naruto is an idiot' judgments. After all, this argument is basically overanalyzing what? three panels in this chapter, thats not really a lot of information to use. I would wait to see Kakashi or the other Ninja's reaction to Naruto's rash attack before saying 'he's an idiot.

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Um, I was just wondering if you actually read my post?

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Originally Posted by DB_Hunter

Bloody hell, what's with this new breed of gotwoot member... you all write waaaaay too much.

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Sorry, I write so much I'll try to cut back but reading and understanding what I've written has been a problem with some people so I try to reiterate myself as much as possible and it seems some people still don’t get it. I didn't think having to read a lot would bother people considering that this is an internet forum.

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Originally Posted by hiddenOne

I think Tobi is a ghost. Think about it, first Sasuke cut him in half and now Naruto hit with a rasengan. Both times it had no effect. Tobi seems to every where at once first he is there when Sasuke fought Deidera then meeting with Pain then on top of the statue and now he is fighting Naruto.

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It's possible. If Tobi turns out to be Madara, it would explain how Madara hasn't yet died of old age. If Tobi is Obito, it explains how he is still around despite the huge boulder landing on his face. I don't think there are ghosts in the Naruto universe though. Still, it's much more interesting than the "Naruto is an idiot" argument.

Yeah that one is getting old and it seems like its been going on forever and I know it will happen again.

We have never seen any thing to suggest that ghost exist in Naruto. If Tobi is a ghost then you would think that the seemingly limitless abilities of the sharingan would've noticed something like that when Sasuke attacked him.

Tobi being a ghost is not even possible in my opinion because that would seriously lack any creativity on Kishimoto's part and his originality is what he is known for.

It is far more likely that Tobi has a jutsu or ability that allows him to become intangible at will. I think we'll find out exactly what it is in the next chapter given the immense analytic abilities of the leaf ninjas he is facing.

I'm far more interested in Jiraiya's fate and the Uchihas and Mist ninjas facing off than I am with Tobi anyway. For some reason I don't get the feeling that Itachi has any intention to kill Sasuke. It seems that he has had some plan for him from the very beginning and he has only been pushing him and testing him to get him to do what he wants. The recent revelations about Tobi and the fact that he and Pein have some plan for the Uchihas and Akatsuki beyond what was previously thought, causes further intrigue.

I wonder what the mentioning of Madara and his possible connection to the Kyuubi has to do with Tobi and Itachi being in Akatsuki and Akatsuki's goal of extracting the Kyuubi. If it turns out that the Kyuubi being sealed in Naruto and what happened to the Uchihas was all a part of someone else's plan and all of this was set in motion since the founding of Konoha and the first's battle with Madara that would be just mind-boggling.

I got an After from the army and i'm wasting it on posting at online forums...

Sasuke facing Itachi,,, not much to speak of, yet.
Sugi VS Kisame... is going to be a cool fight, but from we've seen, Kisame is going to drain Sugi's energy (he uses chackra to pump his muscles) with each sword clash, so sugi is dead (think about the guy from bleach with his weight amplifying sword).

as for Payne, I think his true body might be connected to the rain, maybe he over heated and is vaporizing, unless one of the bodies is there to cool him off..

best part, is tobi vs all.
Naruto is an Idiot , but what he did now is smart.
it doesn't cost him any chackra, and he's not reaveling anything his enemies didn't know about already. it's a decent move, and it allowes the other to analyze Tobi's abilities.
as for tobi dodging it, I'm going for perfect intel on Naruto. he knows that Naruto wouldn't have kept silence, so he prepares for an attack (why hasn't anyone complained about Naruto shouting a warcry during his "sneak attack"?). and for his 'not a shadow clone' comment, I think he was speaking of himself, he knew what naruto would do becuase he has the same (much more evolved) fighting style. he usually puts out a shadow clone (he might try using one to seperate the leaf ninjas), but this time, he throws out a normal clone, and hopefuly, Naruto will learn to combine both so his diversions would be better, next time.

I think Suigetsu stands a much better chance against Kisame than you might think. He has studied all the swordsmen of the hidden mist because his goal isto defeat them and collect their swords so he knows all about Kisame and Samehada.

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Originally Posted by Death BOO Z

Naruto is an Idiot , but what he did now is smart.

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I don't know why some other idiots didn't just say that instead of trying to argue that what he did was smart. Like I said before what he did may have been a smart move but it doesn't change the fact that Naruto is an idiot.

Oh and I did complain about Naruto shouting out during his 'sneak' attack. I did it about three times.

Naruto does lots of stupid things but he's only been outright defeated in a life or death fight twice (Kabuto and Sasuke). Every other time he either wins his fight or something interferes and the fight is not really settled but he ends up no longer fighting that opponent.

Naruto has demonstrated that he's a very poor learner unless it's through experiences.Because he's experienced losing only once (I believe he passed out thinking he'd beaten Kabuto so he probably didn't learn anything from that) he hasn't really been forced to reflect on his performance after a defeat and think of ways to improve his skills.

Sure it's stupid for him to do the first thing that pops into his head? But it generally works out fine for him in the end and that's all he really cares about. The downside to having infinite confidence is that you never think you need to improve.

On the whole Naruto is dumb thing...

I dont think that he is dumb. Is he smart? Nah. He uses his abilities to detect enemy abilities. I mean Shadow Clones and Rasengan are what he does best. Althought it may be dangerous for others to just jump in a fight, it is east for Naruto cuz he can sorta self heal if he gets too roughed up. So not dumb for Naruto, dumb for anyone else.

To the fool who neg repped me saying "you AND naruto is a dumbass. Before fighting enemy, find out objective, then skills, then make a plan. NOT waste chakra by charging"

He didn't charge at the enemy you idiot. It was an ambush or a sneak attack. Apparently, your brain is too small to realize that.

When given any opportunity to quickly defeat your enemy without any injuries and such, why would you sit around and wait. Having numbers or not, there's still a chance he could take out 1 of the 8 people before you finishing him off. Why wait for that to happen? The mission is to find Sasuke, not stop and talk with Tobi. They already had clues leading to Sasuke, so Naruto tried to make things as quick as possible by attempting an attack from behind.

You must the type of person who would agree that letting your enemy power up to his full power before fighting him only in the end to find out that you aren't strong enough is the smart thing to do. Or, those people who when you have #s, instead of fighting the enemy all at once, you take turns attacking and getting owned 1 by 1. Yeah, only in movies and such you see that, but I bet you think that's the way to do it in life. Lawl.