Forum Rules on Spoilers

Due to several incidents in the Naruto anime thread and a couple other things, a bunch of the staff have been raising the idea that Gotwoot's spoiler policy needs an overhaul. Lots of ideas were thrown around and we came up with a tentative addition for the rules section.

But not including you guys in the process doesn't really seem fair. So here it is, your chance to add input to Gotwoot's almighty rules. Please try to take this seriously.

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Currently the rules regarding spoilers are:
11. No spoiling WHATSOEVER. Spoilers are to be kept to manga/open discussion threads, or PM's.

Additional rules for Anime Fanart forum:
1. No use or posting of images that contain spoilers: If the anime has not shown it, please do not use it in your artwork. If you are sharing a piece that includes spoilers, please link it, and warn the members. This rule applies to avatars, signatures, wallpapers, or any other fanart.

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The thinking behind the overhaul is that the rules on spoilers are way too general and need to be really fleshed out in order to work properly. While the staff could just arbitrarily say "Spoiler" "Not a spoiler", it'd be in everyone's interests to set up rules that all the users could refer to. Hopefully this will also reduce the number of spoilers made up of "i didn't know you couldn't do ___" rationale.

So, here's what we came up with so far.
Gotwoot Forums Policy on Spoilers

No spoiling is allowed on this forum whatsoever. Spoiling is regarded as providing information that would be otherwise unknown to the anime-only watcher by a person that has acquired such information from outside sources, for example the manga.

Those posts and/or comments that would be regarded as spoilers are but not limited to:

• Anything which reveals the solution of a current problem or puzzle, thus denying the reader the pleasure of working out the correct answer.
  
  
• Anything which reveals future, un-seen as of yet plot elements, thus denying the reader the proper suspense when reading the book or watching the movie.
  
  
• Identifying whether a character is in/not in the manga, especially when the comment reveals whether a character will become important in the future of the anime.
  
  
• Any reference to a person, place, or thing that is either in the manga and/or not yet in the anime. If it is in the anime, it is a remark that makes it out to be something that has not been shown yet.
  
  
• Any reference to an unsubbed episode/chapter of an anime/manga.
  
  
• A remark or quote that identifies a member's post as a spoiler. You may take this to our private message system and inform the user and/or a moderator that he/she is spoiling. Bringing this information forward on the thread in question will grant you the same warning as the person doing the spoiling.
  
  
• Revealing the titles of upcoming arcs or episode titles. Some arc/episode titles may not reveal anything about the future of an anime, but some do, and it's just best not to name them in anime only sections.
  
  
• Spoilers in thread titles. Remember, even if your thread is in the manga section, it can still be seen from the frontpage. Therefore all thread titles should not have any info outside of the anime.
  
  
• Spoilers in Sigs/Avatars/Pics
  NO Spoiling in sigs or avatars. None. No posting visible pictures that serve as spoilers. Links to pics with spoilers are fine, so long as they're properly labeled and posted in permissible sections. This part applies especially to the Anime Fanart area.

In sum, a spoiler is:
Any form of information that has not yet been mentioned in the anime, regardless of source.

Any such form from an anime episode that has not yet been subbed (in english).

One gray area is discussing episode previews. There used to be rules against discussing episode previews in the Bleach and Naruto areas, but they were infrequently enforced and never really official. Input on this is especially wanted.

Personally I think that discussion of episode previews should always be allowed, so long as no manga reader uses his/her knowledge and tries to mess things up. We trust that most of you aren't that kind of asshole, and won't spoil for everyone else. But if you are, and we catch you, expect a ban, straight up.

Well, I've said more than my fair share. Discuss!

Hmm... I feel that this discussion may be (at least partly) my fault. I pointed out to a new user that his sig may violate the spoiler rule. Though I did it without mentioning anything speciffic that could give away future plot points, in hindsight I probably should have kept it to PM. I apologize if I've caused any problems.

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Originally Posted by masamuneehs

A remark or quote that identifies a member's post as a spoiler. You may take this to our private message system and inform the user and/or a moderator that he/she is spoiling. Bringing this information forward on the thread in question will grant you the same warning as the person doing the spoiling.

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This is indeed very important.

What comes to previews, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to be discussed. They are parts of the released, subbed episodes. Maybe there are people who religiously never watch them (I don't watch them if I have the next episode already on my HD), but you can't please everybody. And besides, it's not like the preview normally would even be the focus of the discussion.

im fine with preview discussion in the episode thread as well. Since its part of the subbed episode, all anime watchers have the chance to see it. If you dont want to thats you're choice, but then you can't really complain about being spoiled. That would be like skipping a part of teh episode and then bitching when someone talks about it.

Is asking for spoiler tags too much? I feel like there was a discussion on this a while ago but I can't remember what was the reason for not having them.

Besides, spoiler is so relative. If half of GW watches an anime series, and the other half doesn't, is the info given out in subsequent discussions considered spoiler? I'm inclined to say no but it is a bit annoying when looking for a new series to watch and checking through the threads and accidentally reading what's gonna happen next. Personally, it doesn't bother me too much but maybe some rabid purist out there might think otherwise =P

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Originally Posted by Honoko

Is asking for spoiler tags too much? I feel like there was a discussion on this a while ago but I can't remember what was the reason for not having them.

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QFT. Spoiler tags could help with fanart spoilers. It could also help if people want to discuss previews or reference manga points.

I don't have anything against spoiler tags if they are forbidden in episode discussion threads, and only allowed in, for example, the fanarts section. Otherwise with the rules now in place there's no need for spoiler tags, because spoilers aren't allowed. And it's bloody annoying to read discussion threads filled with spoiler tags, and you never know what's under them before you click.

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Originally Posted by Honoko

Besides, spoiler is so relative. If half of GW watches an anime series, and the other half doesn't, is the info given out in subsequent discussions considered spoiler? I'm inclined to say no but it is a bit annoying when looking for a new series to watch and checking through the threads and accidentally reading what's gonna happen next.

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It's a conscious risk to browse through the whole series discussion thread when looking for a new series. Normally the few first posts are enough to both tell what the series is all about and what are the reactions by the first viewers. Any longer than that down the thread, and logically thinking the only things you could learn are spoilers, and little else. What else could there even be? Aside from some strange details like "in episode # the graphics were really bad, but according to the preview they are normal in the next ep...". Such things don't really help with choosing a new series to watch.

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Originally Posted by masamuneehs

[*]A remark or quote that identifies a member's post as a spoiler. You may take this to our private message system and inform the user and/or a moderator that he/she is spoiling. Bringing this information forward on the thread in question will grant you the same warning as the person doing the spoiling.

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Is this a remark like - That is a spoiler, take it out? Or something like - OMG that's ______ who appears in episode __ and kills _____. Take out your spoiler ?

Either way, I am assuming the reason we can't tell them their post is spoiler is b/c it'll...prove it's a spoiler? If not, what is the reason?

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Revealing the titles of upcoming arcs or episode titles. Some arc/episode titles may not reveal anything about the future of an anime, but some do, and it's just best not to name them in anime only sections.

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This one I think is just rediculious. We have threads, populars threads at that in both the Bleach and Naruto anime section. Now I know as of late they have been unreliable, but it generates discussion and activity and it is a positive edition to the anime. Also I believe that no one minds about knowing the name of the title. The threads are labled properly, obviously stating that reading the title will give you some insight on what is yet to come. If you don't want to know just don't enter, it is simple as that.

Also the titles that are stated are not that far into the future of what is going to happen. And infact it might help a person decide on whether of not to waste there time, hope, bandwith on said episodes.

I know for a fact that if the "Upcoming Naruto title" thread is moved to the Naruto general Discussion, not only will the activity in the thread decrease but members are more likely to run across spoilers. Specifically thread names. I know that thread makers in that section are asked to label the thread so that nothing is really given away to an anime only member, but somethings just can't be avoided in some cases. If you want an example of this I will be happy to pm it to you just ask.

Besides that I think the other are reasonable in some cases.

edit grammar

Yeah. There's no reason to remove or move those specific episode title threads. Nobody with a decent amount of sanity will be surprised to find upcoming episodes titles if he decides to enter such a thread. Maybe upcoming episode titles could be kept out of regular episode discussion threads. There's no damage in that.

Those specific threads could be understandable exceptions.

There's no need for spoiler tags in anime discussions period. Those forums are to discuss fansubs, not manga and not raws. There's no need to refference manga points, why? Because we are not fucking discussing the manga here. If you can't backup your points with anime information, then don't even try to argue something.

@xDarkMaster:

Yes, that's the reasoning behind why you can identify someone's post as a spoiler. That's why there's a pm system, a report system, and IRC. Get in touch with a mod, tell them which post is a spoiler and they'll handle it. Also, pm'ing the member who posted the spoiler might help to remove the spoiler. Just don't identify it in the thread itself.

@dragonrage:

You are relatively new, so you don't know how these naruto anime watchers get by the hint of anything being spoiled. Those rules are not in placed because we mods wanted them, it was because there have been lots and lots of complaints in the past about them getting spoiled because of it. You've only arrived at the Filler Era, and no one cares about that, but once it gets back to the manga story you'll see how many of them don't want to know the title of the next episode, heck they didn't even want preview discussions.

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Originally Posted by samsonlonghair

Hmm... I feel that this discussion may be (at least partly) my fault. I pointed out to a new user that his sig may violate the spoiler rule. Though I did it without mentioning anything speciffic that could give away future plot points, in hindsight I probably should have kept it to PM. I apologize if I've caused any problems.

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Didn't see your post, so no, it wasn't because of you. All of the things explained in the thread had been old rules, we are just spelling them out more clearly for people that don't seem to understand them, and to give us mods more leverage when we decide something is a spoiler.

But people, this is the most important part of masa's post:

but not limited to

So, don't think that because a certain situation wasn't discussed in the rules, but it's still of spoiler nature that you won't be punished for it. So people, don't be jackasses and try to find loopholes because you'll pay dearly.

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Originally Posted by Honoko

Besides, spoiler is so relative. If half of GW watches an anime series, and the other half doesn't, is the info given out in subsequent discussions considered spoiler?

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What do you mean, if I suddenly went to a Utawarerumono discussion and said something along the lines of "This reminds me of the FMA ending when Al died when he got his head chopped off"?

to address some of the things quickly:

Spoiler tags: I'm all for them. As long as they're used in compliance with the rules though.

Honoko's point: It's almost impossible to encourage good discussion of all the animes w/o their own sections and not allow detailed info to be shared. Entering the last pages of discussion on a show that's towards (or reached) its end is a risk the reader has to consider.

Identifying someone else's post as a spoiler: We have several ways that you can bring a spoiler to the staff's attention, reporting the post, PMing the staff or PMing the person.

If, for example in the Naruto anime thread, before the Chuunin Exam arc starts, someone posts: "You think ____ is a worthless character? Just wait until you see how much ass he kicks in the Chuunin Exam!" (before the Chuunin Exam's been done in the anime)

And then someone says: "____ getting to the finals of the Chuunin Exam is a spoiler"

They are both obviously spoiling.

But if for example someone started specualting on what might happen in later episodes with: "Maybe ____ will become the next Kazekage"

And someone quotes that and says: "SPOILER!" Then obviously only the idiot posting second is the one doing the spoiling.

Upcoming episode titles can have spoilers in them, and you all know that. Currently the episode title topics in Bleach and Naruto are fine, because the material is all fillers, and you can't really spoil those unless you've been secretly drinking with the monkeys who write those scripts.

But why would we need to know the names of upcoming episodes after the shows get back on track? At that point the Upcoming Episode Titles thread WILL almost certainly be moved to Open Discussion, because any discussion about those episode titles will obviously contain manga references and spoilers.

Consider this: Showing the title of episode 95 of Naruto BEFORE anyone even knows who Tsunade is.
Also, the "Soul Society arc" being referenced early on in Bleach.

Right now we have those threads in the Naruto and Bleach anime sections because the shows are in a lull and people want to know what's happening without having to watch the episodes.

If lots of people feel like posting episode titles in the anime only sections should continue, then it'll happen. But if one of those episode titles or arc names is a spoiler, would you say just leave it there?

edit - goddamnit Budweineken beating me to the punch!
But I still think moving the upcoming episode titles thread from Naruto anime to Naruto Open Discussion is advisable. Heck, the Open Discussion section exists almost exactly for threads like that. What to do with the Bleach one is more debatable...

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Originally Posted by masamuneehs

edit - goddamnit Budweineken beating me to the punch!
But I still think moving the upcoming episode titles thread from Naruto anime to Naruto Open Discussion is advisable. Heck, the Open Discussion section exists almost exactly for threads like that. What to do with the Bleach one is more debatable...

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Yeah, I edited my post, I think you're right after reading your post.

For the Bleach one, I say simply lock it up once the fillers end.

Those threads are really not needed once the fillers end, else why do you think both of those threads only popped up once the Fillers started? Because there was no need for them before and also because it was against the rules.

So the reason not to post that something is a spoiler is b/c it proves it a spoiler.

If I may say so, that is totally pointless. Assuming the person is actually spoiling and not speculating (Masa) then a person is supposed to PM them or a mod. Well, let's say someone goes Naruto kills the Fifth Hokage (obviously not true).

I PM the person and assuming he/she isn't a complete ass he/she removes the post. People thus know it was a spoiler.

I PM a mod, they remove it telling the person not to spoil again, people know it was a spoiler.

I post "That is a spoiler please remove it," (while not furthering spoiling) he removes the post, people know it was a spoiler. What's the difference?

The difference is that only one or two people got affected by the spoiler, instead of everyone that reads the thread.

...no.

Assuming all this happens in about the same amount of time, I fail to see your logic. If one tells the spoiler to remove simply by going "Spoiler, remove" (with NO further spoiling or referencing of the spoiler) and he removes it, everyone that reads the thread would know there was a spoiler posted, but how would they know what the spoiler is?

@ Budweineken :

You have raised some very good and sound points. You're right I am new to actually posting on the forums and not just lurking (DrAgE). You're right about it being more useful during this filler arc. Seeing that no one really cares or more importantly no one knows for sure what is going too happen. But when/if the anime gets back to the manga storyline, manga readers would have the upper hand and speculation will turn into spoiling. So the discussion in the thread would be utterly useless since it would not be about theories but about leaking the plot of the episode. I do recall a few heated discussion; if you can call it that about spoiling stuff that preceed episode 135.

But I still think the thread should be allowed, no discussion though, I know that would make the thread boring, but it would still serve to satisfy the curiousity of the interested. After all it would just be basically relaying the information that other sites provide.

I would like to ask that the thread not be dealt with until the anime actually gets back on track, if ever.

I do agree that the title would only be allowed in that specific thread and nowhere else in the anime only section.

@ masamuneehs

I disagree, I would rather see the thread be locked than be moved. Plain and simple there are and there will be alot of spoiler titles in that section anyways it would do more harm than good for the members that are actually interested in the thread. But I guess that is the very reason why that warning under the title of that section exist.

But like I said I ask that all decisions concerning this thread be put off until the anime actually gets back on track, because as for now it serves a good purpose as it is.


Edit: I see that you have already decided. If and when the anime gets back on track lock them.

@xDM

They wouldn't, but lets say there's a lag in action from a mod... Then all of you that know that it is a spoiler keep refferencing and identifying a single post as a spoiler then the chances of other members of the community reading it and becoming aware of it will increase exponentially. Otherwise, the post might have the chance of going unoticed to the great majority, and that's what we want. That's only one of several advantages of having that rule in place.

I see your point, although I still don't agree. You seem to think that I am saying a mod will remove the spoiler after reading the post saying it was a spoiler, while I am saying the person that posted the spoiler would remove it. If not, w/e.

Let's leave it at that since you guys obviously aren't going to change these rules anytime soon.

i made this topic because I am serious about using your input in the rules. But if you have poor logic behind your points, it's not going to happen.

xdark: Confirming a spoiler reveals to everyone who comes across it that it is a spoiler. PMing a mod/that person and having them edit the post does not. People will see that there WAS a spoiler there, but they won't know what it was, and therefore not get spoiled.

Example:
Idiot 1: "N@ruto k1llZ da 5th H0kagee!1"
Idiot 2: "OMFG that's a spoiler!"

Now everyone reading these posts is spoiled.

Example 2:
Idiot 1: "N@ruto k1llZ da 5th H0kagee!1"
Smart person: PMs a mod/reports the post/contacts idiot1
Mod/Idiot: Edits the post, so now it reads:
"Spoiler removed. Don't be an idiot and read the rules. Warned."

Remeber, sometimes someone will throw a 'spoiler' out there, even through random speculation. But if someone then comes along and verifies that that speculation is a spoiler, then people take it to heart and get spoiled.

I'm not quite sure how i can explain it to you. Do other people see why that rule would be in place?

Drage: don't sweat it, those threads won't be moved until fillers end. like you pointed out, for better or worse they do raise alot of discussion in their areas.

But once the fillers do end, and if those topics stay in the anime sections, do you really think people will only post episode titles, no comments or anything, in them?

Locking the thread post fillers is a pretty good suggestion actually... Moving it to Open Discussion means that anime only viewers would get spoiled by looking for future episode titles (as spoilers would be permissible if it was in Open)

It may be a huge headache to patrol an episode titles thread in the anime only section after the fillers end. If people want it to stay, it'll stay. But I'll be the first to say it's just asking for trouble.

Masa, I get what you are saying. But I'm not talking about speculation. I'm talking about someone actually spoiling, with or without bad intentions.

My point is in both situations the same amount of people would have read the first post.
Sit 1 - Read, it's a spoiler?!, removed after x amount of people have seen it
Sit 2 - Read, removed after x amount of people have seen it, goes back to thread, it's a spoiler?!

You guys seem to think contacting a mod is 10x faster then posting it, which isn't always the case. In all honesty I can see your points. Can you see mine?

There may be numerous situations, so let's not go to the, "what if this happens"... Not revealing that someone is spoiling is the one that protects the most, and that's the way it's going to stay. It protects against morons that can't tell a speculation from a spoiler, which is what happens most of the times.

XDM, i dont see what you're complaining about? Are you saying it would be better to identify something as a spoiler in the actual thread instead of quietly PMing a mod or the person to remove it?

I'm not saying that, don't put words in my mouth. I'm not complaining either. I'm simply trying to point out what I see wrong with the rule and the reason why, which none of you seem to even try and understand.

All you guys are just saying the same thing over and over again. I get your point and I get that I can't win this argument b/c you guys obviously don't care to change the rules.

So, bravo! Excellent rules, I'm sure no one will ever spoil on these forums again. >_>

Maybe the problem is that you're not explaining your situation clearly because I really don't see the point you are trying to make, and apparently everyone else.

It's not a matter of winning the argument, it's a matter that I don't understand the problem you're seeing.

And it's not a matter of being quickly or not as you point out. It's a matter of the amount of people being affected by the spoiler. Because let's get practical, most people don't know what they are reading until it becomes a recurring theme, which is one of the things that gets avoided if people stop pointing to the same post as a spoiler.

And yeah, regarding this rule you won't win the argument, but I really want to understand what you mean.

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Originally Posted by xDarkMaster

I'm not saying that, don't put words in my mouth. I'm not complaining either. I'm simply trying to point out what I see wrong with the rule and the reason why, which none of you seem to even try and understand.

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No need to be hostile. I wasn't putting words in your mouth, i was just asking a question. Like Bud, i dont see what it is that you're disagreeing with. I was simply asking if you were suggesting we let people point out a spoiler rather then report it. Obviously thats not the case, so please tell us what it is you're trying to say.

Bud - That is one huge assumption.

Assassin - I'm not being hostile, just brusque.

Ok, I guess the point that I have been trying to drive at the entire time is this. Without speculation, without what ifs. I say spoiler and it's removed proves it was a spoiler. Mod removes b/c it was a spoiler proves its a spoiler. Isn't that a bit hypocritical? Are you going to warn yourselves every time you prove something was a spoiler? I'm not saying it's better to post it's a spoiler rather than PM, I'm saying how can you punish someone that wasn't spoiling and trying to stop spoiling?

That said, let's let this go. It was already plainly stated this conversation can't go anywhere b/c the rule isn't going to change. At this point, I am just wasting my time and yours by going through this.

You mods can stop arguing with me and trying to convince me otherwise, I have already relented. Now it's your turn to get on with life.

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Originally Posted by xDarkMaster

I say spoiler and it's removed proves it was a spoiler. Mod removes b/c it was a spoiler proves its a spoiler. Isn't that a bit hypocritical? Are you going to warn yourselves every time you prove something was a spoiler? I'm not saying it's better to post it's a spoiler rather than PM, I'm saying how can you punish someone that wasn't spoiling and trying to stop spoiling?

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Ok i see what you're getting at. But heres the thing,

1. If someone posts a spoiler, we can't just leave it there obviously. It has to be removed. Someone will undoubtedly see it and that can't really be helped. The difference is, if you post in that thread saying "Thats a spoiler, please remove it", all that does is confirm it for those who might not have known. Whats worse is that it doesn't really help to solve the problem. Theres no gurantee that the person who posted the spoiler will see it rite away, and the same goes for the mods. If you PM a mod, we'll know about it a lot faster, instead of just randomly stumbling upon it. The spoiler will be removed in both cases, but with reporting its removed alot faster, and thus the number of people that could be spoiled is far less. Now the reason that we punish those who post instead of PMing is because they're really just wasting time by not reporting and hence helping to spoil more people.

2. I dont know about all the mods, but i for one dont remove something unless its an intentional spoiler. If someones speculation heppens to be correct, its still a speculation as far as the anime-only viewers are concerned. Even if that person intentionally posted a spoiler disguised as a speculation, the anime-only members are none the wiser. So by posting "thats a spoiler" you're the one spoiling technically. If you instead PM a mod we can quietly remove the spoiler, and in most cases the general public wont even know what part was removed. They'll know that the post contained a spoiler, but 99% wont remember what the spoiler actually was. We can even delete the entire post if need be, so no one except the user who posted it will know it was ever there. And in rare cases, if we see that the "speculation" poses no real threat we mite just leave it there. The options available to us are far greater then those available you the average user, so its just easier to inform the mods secretly rather then yeling it out.

Ok, now I might start to get a bit hostile. I honestly don't know if you guys are reading past the first few sentences of my posts.

1) I know your arguments already, explaining them to me for the 5th time only with more words and buff isn't going to help you at all. I already acknowledged that PMing a mod is probably faster.

2) One of your arguments is by not telling the mods we are "helping spoil." Why not just go and ban all of GW that doesn't report it?

3) Of course you wouldn't stop speculation. The entire point of the forum is to discuss the episodes and speculate about what is going to happen. I wasn't suggesting you do anything of the sort.

4) Honestly, if you had paid attention to my posts you would have known I'm not talking about speculation. At all. NO SPECULATION. I'm talking about deliberate spoiling, w/ or w/o malicious intent.

5) Seriously, let's stop this argument. I understand you. You might understand me. We can stay here another year and nothing would change. I have heard and understand the reasoning of all your arguments, once again, why you feel the need to reword them into longer arguments is beyond me.

The main point here is that saying "stop spoiling" and/or the mod removing spoiler both proves it’s a spoiler and the rule that we are placing in is saying "stop spoiling" proves it’s a spoiler. It's a little hypocritical that our own action would show that in-fact we are covering it up, which in turn shows to the public that something about that post they just saw is amiss.

Now I understand that speculation and spoiling may not be done with malicious intent. However it wouldn't happen right away but at some point people would know not to say things like that but at the time we make these rules official it seems that we would be for lack of a better word overbearing.

We aren't trying to be here, so with us changing the way people post is not because we feel that it should be, it's also for the sake of the forum in general. GW is a really small community right now, and honestly it really is the noobs would spoil regularly. We would like it so that everyone would be on the same page somewhat as those that are new.

So in all honesty everyone will see that posting something like that should not be done. If that becomes true in most peoples minds then the actions on which we are having this discussion about would not happen.

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Originally Posted by xDarkMaster

So the reason not to post that something is a spoiler is b/c it proves it a spoiler.

If I may say so, that is totally pointless. Assuming the person is actually spoiling and not speculating (Masa) then a person is supposed to PM them or a mod. Well, let's say someone goes Naruto kills the Fifth Hokage (obviously not true).

I PM the person and assuming he/she isn't a complete ass he/she removes the post. People thus know it was a spoiler.

I PM a mod, they remove it telling the person not to spoil again, people know it was a spoiler.

I post "That is a spoiler please remove it," (while not furthering spoiling) he removes the post, people know it was a spoiler. What's the difference?

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When they remove the post, if they got to it in a timely manner, the majority of the forum probably would not have seen it. Also, some people may not realize it's a spoiler, but when someone posts "That's a spoiler," it makes it kind of obvious. Are you suggesting that the mods just leave the spoiler there for everyone to see?

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Originally Posted by Kraco

What comes to previews, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to be discussed. They are parts of the released, subbed episodes. Maybe there are people who religiously never watch them (I don't watch them if I have the next episode already on my HD), but you can't please everybody. And besides, it's not like the preview normally would even be the focus of the discussion.

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Originally Posted by dragonrage

This one I think is just rediculious. We have threads, populars threads at that in both the Bleach and Naruto anime section. Now I know as of late they have been unreliable, but it generates discussion and activity and it is a positive edition to the anime. Also I believe that no one minds about knowing the name of the title. The threads are labled properly, obviously stating that reading the title will give you some insight on what is yet to come. If you don't want to know just don't enter, it is simple as that.

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Take Kraco's wishes with dragonrage's suggestion and you end up with the same preview discussion practice we've followed way back before the fillers started.

Would you object to that?

After reading some posts here, I actually came to agree with the opinion that the title threads might not be needed anymore once the fillers are over. For my own part I'm not likely to visit them anymore even if they were allowed to persist. While they wouldn't do any damage at all in the ideal world since everybody could visit or not visit them according to their own desires, I can't honestly predict how things would go in reality, especially if lots of new people come pouring in once the manga based story returns.

Well, I change my opinion from supporting those threads to neutral. Somebody wiser than me decide.

You can just move the Upcoming Titles thread to the Naruto Open section and make it a sticky, then make a Naruto Episode Preview sticky in the same section. This way, everyone would know that they would be entering spoiler territory to see them. Damn I'm smart. Praise be to Mage.

Assertnfailure :

ha ha ha.

I don't know if you lack the ability to scroll down or it might be your sense of humor, but you're about a few post late on that comment. But I do appreciate your comment, we all know that they are always well detailed.

masa:

I am satisfy with it staying where it is until the fillers end, if ever. But yea, they would be better locked than moved, atleast that is what I think.

Why would they be better off locked? If they're moved to Open then whoever wants to see/discuss them (such as myself) could go and do so. Personally, I think previews should be allowed to be discussed in the episode discussion thread since they're part of the episode, but as that goes against the popular opinion, a thread in Open should suffice.

I recently replied to a post by nests about spoilers in sigs, while I am completely outraged and think the rule is foolish, I know none of you mods care (for good reason) and thus I will put my energy into trying to understand instead. What exactly does a 'spoiler sig' entail.

Would any sig with some charachter X from manga Y be a spoiler? Or would it have to be something like Charachter's X and Y doing action Z from manga Q. I can see how something like a sig of Ichigo in Hollow form would have been a spoiler, however it feels wrong to say you can't have that art b/c it gives something away about a story, ESPECIALLY if you never post in the anime section. Also it could be fanart.

Example, I know that D. Grey Man is a popular manga that is going to be made an anime soon, if I had a D.Grey Man sig depicting some charachter from D Grey Man doing some type of thing that D.Grey Man charachters do (but not untill later in the story) would it become a spoiler sig by virtue of the anime being created?

General spoiler statement: Gotwoot has never seemed to be very manga orientated but there are still manga readers here, even manga only readers I would imagine. If the site is not primarily meant for these types of people as I think Bud mentioned, then why do we bother having any manga discussion at all?

Not that I want the gotwoot community to get any smaller, but all the manga threads and sections seems like a pretty big liability to the majority, the anime only watchers, who the site seems to be meant for. Hypothetically, if we eliminated all the manga sections we would eliminate much of the lure for manga readers, and thus reduce the pool of new people who might accientally spoil b/c they don't know the rules. Additionally I theorize that the people who read mangas as well as watch anime will be reluctant to speak about their manga knowledge knowing that no manga is discussed anywhere on the site. Only about 8% of the threads and about 12% of the site's posts are in manga topics (Bleach/Naruto Manga, General Manga, and the One Piece Manga Thread) wouldn't it be easier to just cut this part out of the site to help discourage people who know the future from polluting the anime viewers?

Calm down, Yukimura. You aren't thinking rationally in your enragement. Just like you said yourself, this is an anime oriented place. But that doesn't mean there can't be anything else here. It only mean the anime is the standard, and other things are in a subservient position in relation to the anime. That's how things are and must be for there to be any order at all, because this is a site with a theme. However, it's just childish to say that since this is an anime site, why do we bother to have any manga discussion at all.

I'm a miserable manga reader, having finished only a handful of titles, but I never considered the manga should go away from here. It seems to have a solid foundation, and some of the members here are even running the excellent manga download site.

Yet still this is an anime site, and thus the only viable option is to monitor and enforce the rules from the anime's point of view, just like has been done in the past. That's no problem. Ordinary people must have their basic liberties even if criminals sometimes take advantage of that freedom as well.

Here's another suggestion, albeit slightly ridiculous: have seperate threads for anime-only viewers and anime/manga viewers. That way, both sides can freely discuss and/or freely speculate what's going on during the series.

On a more serious note: for any other anime series besides Naruto, why not just have people start spoiler threads if they wish to discuss "what's already known." Like how movies or tv shows are noted in our general discussion section, we can have "Spoiler: (insert non-spoiling title of topic discussion here)." That way, we don't have to reorganize the entire site or add spoiler tags and people would automatically know that they are entering that particular thread at their own risk.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Honoko

Here's another suggestion, albeit slightly ridiculous: have seperate threads for anime-only viewers and anime/manga viewers. That way, both sides can freely discuss and/or freely speculate what's going on during the series.

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And for what reason do we have the manga section? Feel free to discuss the anime counterpart in that section also if your discussion will involve spoilers. There's nothing stopping you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Honoko

On a more serious note: for any other anime series besides Naruto, why not just have people start spoiler threads if they wish to discuss "what's already known." Like how movies or tv shows are noted in our general discussion section, we can have "Spoiler: (insert non-spoiling title of topic discussion here)." That way, we don't have to reorganize the entire site or add spoiler tags and people would automatically know that they are entering that particular thread at their own risk.

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No, this will discourage discussion of fansubs, and it will encourage the same shit to be discussed twice, which seems like a very bad situation to me. This is a forum to discuss fansubs, not to discuss RAWs or random spoiler information you found in the internet.
We don't like spoiler discussions period, and we sure don't like to encourage and facilitate it. “What’s already known” should be what you’ve seen in the fansubs, if you are impatient and went around to wikipedia and other sites to get yourself spoiled then good for you, but no need to drag everyone in the forums with you. And if what you know you got it from the manga, here’s a crazy idea, go and discuss it in the manga section.

Not to mention that we have the naruto open discussion section precisely for that reason, as far as naruto is concerned. And our only other big anime, bleach isn't quite as popular as naruto hence theres no need for an bleach open discussion yet.

Like bud said, these forums are for fansubbed anime, not random info you mite find from other sources. And even then, we have open and manga discussions where you can spoil to your hearts content.

I'll go on the record saying that I'd like spoiler tags, or the ability to change text color to the color of the background like we could do two forum revisions ago.

It's possible to implement in vbulletin (in fact, there's already mods written to do just that). It wasn't possible to implement in a sane way in Fusetalk, which was why they went away.

I'm not philosophically opposed to spoiler tags. I see a lot of other potentially good uses for them -- like hiding giant layout-breaking images in the desktop thread, for example.

However, I am opposed to the idea of spoiler tag abuse -- if we were to install such a mod, I'd expect that discussion rules would mostly stay the same: manga spoilers still wouldn't belong in anime discussion threads, and vice-versa. I'd also expect that there wouldn't be large stretches of threads wrapped in spoiler tags. However, I'd personally be a more active poster in a couple of threads (series discussions for series that I'm not quite current on) if I knew that clicking on the discussion thread didn't necessarily assume that I'd already seen the latest speedsubber-release of the series.

Take, for example: utawarerumono. I'm watching yesy's version, and don't really approve of your-mom's approach to subbing in general (they're sort of ... spitesubbers), so I don't intend to watch theirs. Since I'm waiting for a relatively reputable group to release, and there's discussion of your-mom's episodes in that thread, I can't really participate meaningfully in the thread anymore. By the time yesy twitches again and releases another couple eps (or, I guess if Static does underground releases), most discussion will have already happened about your-mom's version, meaning it'll still be pointless to even try to participate in the thread anymore.

Spoiler tags make enforcement of spoiler rules a bit muddier, and make discussion moderation in general a bit tougher. But with some sane rules, they can help prevent that from happening by letting people watching the speedsubber versions of things stay in the discussion while not spoiling and giving a generally bad time to the non-speedsub-watchers, and I'm all for that.

So, really, I'm on the fence. I'm interested in seeing how much interest there is in this ... it's really not particularly hard to make happen, just a question of whether we want it or not.

The only reason I was opposed to spoiler tags is because I don't want any sort of spoilers permitted in the Anime forums. Even if we make the policy as you explained above, I bet you that 100% of new members will not know of them and will see the spoiler tags as a means for them to discuss spoilers without knowing any better. The end result will be giving incentive for spoiler discussions and anime only watchers being spoiled.

The other problem about speed subbers, who here will decide which subs are ok to discuss and which aren't? There's really no logical way to go about it. I find myself in the same situation as you. I'd be more active if people would just stop watching and discussing speed subbers, but that isn't going to happen. So I just watch till the end of the series at my pace, and just post my comments on the series when I finish watching it.

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Originally Posted by Budweineken

So I just watch till the end of the series at my pace, and just post my comments on the series when I finish watching it.

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Ya, thats what i do as well. I dont really think there are alot of people in the same situation as comp, so theres no need for spoiler tags to be implemented.

All in all comp, stop trying to be different and just conform :p

Edit: lol bud, can of worms?

I can certainly understand the "can of worms" notion, and I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea how much work it would be to implement spoiler tags.

That being said, I'd like to suggest a compromise. It may possibly be controversial, but I think it could work. To avoid said "can of worms" effect we introduce a two-tiered system. "Senior" posters have access to spoiler tags, different fonts and colors, deleting their own posts, etcetera. "Junior" posters have no such abilities. This is based on the notion that any "senior" members have contributed enough posts to this forum that they probably won't abuse the system (much). The line between "junior" and "senior" members can be post count, join date, reputation, or anything else the admins deem appropriate. Alternatively, "senior" status may be given or taken away on a case-by-case basis by mods.

I understand that this may raise many concerns. Any two-tiered system is inherently prejudicial. There is no doubt that some "junior" members will complain about their status. I believe that the benefits still outway the costs. The gains (real or egotistical) of becoming a "senior" member may entice more people to become regular posters. This may also give a feeling that responsible members are rewarded on GotWoot.

Again, I admit that I have no idea how much work this would require.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by samsonlonghair

To avoid said "can of worms" effect we open a can of angry hornets instead

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... I don't like it.

implementing spoiler tags does seem to have some support, and if regulated properly would only stimulate manga and open discussions.

also, spoiler tags could be a great asset in the General Anime section, like comp pointed out. People could discuss different subs of the same show, especially if people were smart enough to pick up on the fact that some of the speed subbers might not be preferred and watched by the majority of those following the anime. Show like Eureka7 and Uta show that lulls in releases by highly favored groups creates a problem that I only see spoiler tags as holding the solution to.

And I've also often wondered about how much the lack of spoiler tags holds back the Fanart section... All those beautiful images going unused...

And so far it seems that the majority of the openly voiced people here favor this idea, especially if its implemented correctly on the anime only/open/manga levels. So perhaps we can get more specific on the rules IF we do use spoiler tags?

and sorry samson, i really don't care for that idea. fuel for animosity

I don't like spoiler tags at all, but I can certainly see the point Complich was making. Wanton use of spoiler tags would make reading threads really annoying; I have witnessed this often enough over at some subbers' forums, where everything that concerns the plot and certain details of the episodes have to be in spoiler tags.

So, if there weren't really strict rules, it would mean new people especially might place all episode discussion in spoiler tags, because if you haven't grasped the traditions of this forum, that could seem logical. And then people only trying to avoid speed sub discussion would also skip those posts even if they didn't contain any speed sub spoilers but just normal current ep details.

Moderating this kind of thing would be really hard. But of course, in the end, such use of spoiler tags wouldn't actually hurt the threads, only cause people to skip posts automatically.

I agree with Kraco... plus I really don't see how you guys can expect to implement more specific rules for the spoiler tags usage, when members can't even follow the basic simple rules like "don't double post" and "don't ask when xx episode will be released".

And as I said before, who here will have the authority to decide which subs are OK to discuss and which aren't?

And also as I said before, I really don't want this forum to become another animesuki. There's a reason why I'm active here, and the lack spoilers and spoiler tags are the main reason.

The main problem with the spoiler tags is that you don't know what is being spoiled. You often think that what is included in the spoiler tag is a discussion of the current episode (as many posters seem to like to use it for this) then you click on the box and what do you find? A fucking spoiler from 3 episodes ahead.

Mods don't watch all the animes that are released, and we don't have enough mods around to go about checking all the spoiler tags too see if they are following the rules, especially if the mods themselves are risking getting spoiled.

Heck, to give you a perspective on how episodes discussions used to be handled:
In the early days we could only discuss a fansub release 24 hours after the release. If AonE was doing a series, you could only discuss up to where AonE had released. That would mean that you would've only been able to discuss Fate/stay night up till episode 22.

I would also say no to spoiler tags, what good would they be? Bud's points basically explain it all. The tags either lull you into a false sense of security, destroy the discussion, or do both at the same time.

On to my point, a question just popped into my head. How will people in the Naruto anime section know when the fillers are over? Are manga readers actually allowed to tell them ''Hey! This arc was in the manga the fillers are over!!!!"

When the fillers are over, believe me, you'll know. For one thing, the episodes wont suck monkey testicles. The plot will also make sense and wont be just random 'adventures'. Plus, im sure someone will post something along the lines of "Wohoo fillers are finally done" or "yes, finally back to the original story line".

I didn't think my idea would be too popular.

I just thought of something that I should have thought of earlier. I was really over thinking it earlier. There's a much simpler solution that won't piss off a bunch of people: make spoiler tags available by typing the word "spoiler" in brackets, but don't make a button for the spoiler tag.

To phrase it better, there would be no button for the spoiler tags, but I could just type "[spoiler]Naruto gets bitten by a vampire in the next episode[/spoiler]" to conceal that text.

If there's no button the tags won't be overused, and new people won't even know the ability is there until they try to type it themselves.

Flaw in your plan...word of mouth. Eventually people will find out and then you'd be right back in the same situation that the button would have caused.

Not sure if it's been discussed, but just looking at the forum main directory, under "Naruto Open Discussion", it shows "last post" in a thread titled "Sixth Hokage". That right there is a possible spoiler to someone like me, who has not read the manga. Now I'm thinking, "sixth hokage?!? What happens to Tsunade? Omigosh! Who is this mysterious sixth hokage?? Will it be Naruto? Or some other super ninja we haven't met before? Maybe Jiraiya? Maybe Ebisu? Maybe Konohamaru?

What can be done about this blatant disregard for the rules???

I changed that threads name just a bit to "The Sixth Hokage?". I put a ? after it, so it gives an idea that it's a suggestion or possible truth and not an actual fact. That thread has been around for a little while now.

If you still believe this is a spoiler, come up with another suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Animeniax

Not sure if it's been discussed, but just looking at the forum main directory, under "Naruto Open Discussion", it shows "last post" in a thread titled "Sixth Hokage". That right there is a possible spoiler to someone like me, who has not read the manga. Now I'm thinking, "sixth hokage?!? What happens to Tsunade? Omigosh! Who is this mysterious sixth hokage?? Will it be Naruto? Or some other super ninja we haven't met before? Maybe Jiraiya? Maybe Ebisu? Maybe Konohamaru?

What can be done about this blatant disregard for the rules???

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http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php?t=13748

Just know we keep an eye on thread titles, that's all you need to know... There's no blatant disregard for the rules, just paranoid people.

And kai, I removed your question mark... so now we are going to add a question mark to all the threads in Open Discussion? It's not necessary.

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Originally Posted by Animeniax

Not sure if it's been discussed, but just looking at the forum main directory, under "Naruto Open Discussion", it shows "last post" in a thread titled "Sixth Hokage". That right there is a possible spoiler to someone like me, who has not read the manga. Now I'm thinking, "sixth hokage?!? What happens to Tsunade? Omigosh! Who is this mysterious sixth hokage?? Will it be Naruto? Or some other super ninja we haven't met before? Maybe Jiraiya? Maybe Ebisu? Maybe Konohamaru?

What can be done about this blatant disregard for the rules???

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All that thread is is speculation on who might become the sixth hokage. There are some spoilers in the thread, but not relating to the thread title.

No, not all threads in there will need a question mark, but one can be added to this thread. I don't see why it couldn't.

without the ?, it's saying that it's a statement, with it it could mean it's true or not.

• Anything which reveals future, un-seen as of yet plot elements, thus denying the reader the proper suspense when reading the book or watching the movie.
• Identifying whether a character is in/not in the manga, especially when the comment reveals whether a character will become important in the future of the anime.
• Spoilers in thread titles. Remember, even if your thread is in the manga section, it can still be seen from the frontpage. Therefore all thread titles should not have any info outside of the anime.

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Originally Posted by kAi

No, not all threads in there will need a question mark, but one can be added to this thread. I don't see why it couldn't.

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Fine, if you want to be Animeniax's bitch... I'm all for it.

Wow, I like it when mods can't be impartial and act like big babies like the rest of us.

Anyway, I think a thread title like "The Sixth Hokage" is pretty much a statement of future events. Whether they are speculative or actually have occurred in the manga, such statements will be taken as a spoiler.

I could go ahead and make a thread titled "Naruto beats Sasuke thanks to Jiraiya", then go on to make the thread a speculative topic about why Naruto would beat Sasuke with Rasengan in a fight. The casual forum goer who hasn't read the manga will assume that I've just posted a spoiler, and get very upset, even though the actual thread doesn't discuss future events (well, maybe).

It's not a spoiler if it's not true though. By definition spoiling should require that the spoiler in question give away information that is in the manga or something. Things like 'The Sixth Hokage' might be true, but just seeing the title doesn't imply that there will or won't be a sixth Hokage in the story. I don't think the goal of the spoiler rules is to protect people from idle speculation, it's to protect people from being exposed to ideas and having a very strong reason to believe that the ideas will take place in the anime before they actually do.

Example, around the time Sasuke gets put in the barrell if I werer to speculate "I wonder if we'll see Sasuke come out of the barrel and fight before this arc is over" people wouldn't have any reason to believe it was going to happen other than it being plausible. However if I were to say "I can't wait till Sasuke comes out of the barrell and fights Naruto" that would obviously be a spoiler, because 1) It was going to happen and 2) I imply that it will happen and that I'm just waiting to see it happen. Interestingly, if someone had used the spoiler wording on something that wasn't going to happen they might have been written off as speculative by a mod who had read the manga. The point being that the plot should be a surprise to anyone who only browses the anime forums.

Point of the matter is that you don't have to concern yourself with there being spoilers on thread titles. We the mod are very aware of how thread titles are called and we act accordingly. In fact, if you have doubt of another thread title in the future and you bring it up, I'll consider that a spoiler instead. It pretty much goes along the lines of the spoiler rule "pointing out that something is a spoiler". So just sit back and let us do our job.

And just so you know, "The Sixth Hokage" is not a statement. It's a subject, so there's no spoiler in there. And as such, such "statements" as you call them will not be taken as a spoiler, if you're going to be paranoid about it be my guest, but that's your own fault. So I repeat once again, let us do our job and concern yourself with something else.

@Yukimura: valid points, but I don't agree that "it's not a spoiler if it's not true". Speculative statements based on future events can also spoil the storyline for non-manga readers. Like someone talking about a sixth hokage, I'd figure they are reading the manga and know the events leading up to a need for a sixth hokage. So as a non-manga-type, I can only (and justifiably) assume that future events take place that lead to the need for a sixth hokage. While there is no explicit spoiling going on, your average poster is intelligent enough to draw all sorts of conclusions from provocative statements, so why risk it by displaying thread titles?

@bud: Just because the mods don't consider something to be spoiling doesn't mean the vast majority of your community members agree. Like Yukimura said, even among the mods, there might be some who don't read the manga. So should we trust to mods that arbitrarily determine what is or is not spoiling, when that mod might not have read the manga, and thus doesn't know future events in the storyline, and can't say one way or another if "it's not a spoiler if it's not true"?

Btw, I'm not stating all of this just to be argumentative or to increase my post count. When I saw that thread title "The Sixth Hokage", I actually freaked and wondered what happened to Tsunade and the village of Konoha. I even went so far as to browse the thread to see what it was about, carefully skimming past any possible spoilers. As someone who doesn't even really care if the storyline gets spoiled, I was still annoyed that something as simple as a title listed as "last thread posted in" could lead to that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Animeniax

So should we trust to mods that arbitrarily determine what is or is not spoiling, when that mod might not have read the manga, and thus doesn't know future events in the storyline, and can't say one way or another if "it's not a spoiler if it's not true"?

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Sorry to tell you, but most if not all the mods read the Naruto and Bleach mangas, and we do know when something is a spoiler or not. If you can't trust that might as well stop visiting the forums.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Animeniax

Btw, I'm not stating all of this just to be argumentative or to increase my post count. When I saw that thread title "The Sixth Hokage", I actually freaked and wondered what happened to Tsunade and the village of Konoha.

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As I said before, you being paranoid about something is not our fault, deal with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Animeniax

As someone who doesn't even really care if the storyline gets spoiled.

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Then why don't you just drop the shit and go do something more productive.

I just want to take this opportunity to distance myself from Animeniax. I thought it was pretty clear that my point was I don't think things that don't take away doubts are spoilers. Also I know most of the mods read Naruto and Bleach manga especially the ones actively involved in watching those respective threads.

@Animeniax:
Your points about drawing logical conclusions are flawed, as they ignore the eqully logical line of reasoning where you conclde that the Sixth Hokage thread is just speculation about who could/should follow Tsunade whenever she's not Hokage anymore. Either of these lines of reasoning has equal weight if you have no idea what's going on in the manga.

When you saw 'the Sixth Hokage' you got scared and thought you knew something that you didn't, you assumed that just b/c it was being talked about in the open section it was true, apparently you didn't think that it could just be a 'Hey what if, thread' It should not be the mods job to police your thoughts and teach you decision making.

And as to trust, if you don't trust the mods you shouldn't try and make them trustworthy by pleading you should find a forum where you do trust them.

@bud: naaah.

@yukimura: Why would there be a sixth hokage unless something happened to the 5th one? The logical line of thought is that she either dies or retires, since that is what happened to the previous 4 (the 3rd actually retired, then came back, then died). I don't think anyone would assume the hokage role is one that you could just quit if you felt like it, so that isn't something to consider. So am I that off base thinking that Tsunade dies or retires, when I see a thread titled "The Sixth Hokage"?

Why should I have any trust in the mods on this forum? From what I've seen, they're as petty and childish as the rest of us. Just because they've been around a while or they got the job because they know the owner of the forums doesn't make them above reproach, and it surely doesn't make them respectable or trustable.

And as for what constitutes a spoiler, I feel a lot more assured since "most" moderators read the manga. Too bad not all of them read it, then your theory would hold water.

Alright, Animeniax, you've said your part... The thread titles rule is fine and there's no need for concern. Consider the matter closed, and I expect the above post will be the last we hear on the matter.
Come back when you have a logical and real argument, because you having a shitty thought process is nothing we have to concern ourselves for. A further post from you in this thread lacking the above elements will be deleted and considered spamming.
And yeah, this is my "childish" way of saying that ýour input is no longer wanted in this thread.

...um... so, anything else?

Some good points were made for and against certain rules, but if anything this whole thread has made me less sure of some of the proposed rule changes. But, as is, the current rules are still very vague on spoiler rules, and it's time to do something about that, even if every issue is not addressed and finalized yet.

i would like to thank the people who particpated and put in their opinion, even if it got shot down or was something i personally went against. discussions like this are needed, and hopefully can continue to point out things that the staff by themselves don't see.

It's also introduced a whole new can of worms, spoiler tags.

I like the tags idea, but it's not just up to me and doesn't look to be happening in the immediate future. So the rules would be updated without those spoilers tags being brought into play. Keep clamoring for them and hopefully it'll be done.

other things that i've gathered from here, (feel free to tell me if i missed something/got it wrong):
spoilers in sigs/avatars are prohibited. fanart may contain spoilers, but must not be a picture on the actual forums and the link must be properly labeled with a warning that it contains a spoiler.

spoilers in thread titles also not allowed, for reasons pointed above. Speculation topics and episode preview discussion are fine as long as no actual spoiling goes on there.

Confirming a spoiler, quoting a spoiler = spoiling. sorry xdark.

The Upcoming Episode Title threads will stay where they are.

i know it's hard to quantify what's best or not so in matters of opinion, but I think the new rules on spoilers could only be a good thing and so they should be implemented asap.

Concerning spoiler tags, I don't like the idea of every topic being littered with black bars, and you having to guess for yourself: "Would this be something I already know?" but there have been so many times I've encountered the need for a spoiler tag. But yeah...I can see how it would be abused by someone not familar with the forums.

Could there be a way to limit spoiler tag usage to certain subforums? Perhaps prohibiting their use in the Naruto Anime and Bleach Anime forums by creating a sticky that says "Do not use spoiler tags in this forum" or something to that effect. Outside the Anime discussion forums (like maybe in General Discussion or Fanart) could there be some way of distinguishing manga spoilers from anime spoilers? That way it could be made clear that a person who hasn't read the manga of such-and-such a series wouldn't be spoiled by highlighting that text.

Also, I don't see the need for moving the next episode discussions to the Naruto Open Discussion forum. I thought the way it was during the pre-filler episodes worked really well. You'd have a thread called "Episode 100 discussion" and "Episode 101 preview discussion", the latter being open to speculation (and speculation only) about the next episode. If you didn't want to discuss it, you stayed out of that topic. It's a small matter, but it was a system I liked.

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Originally Posted by XanBcoo

Concerning spoiler tags, I don't like the idea of every topic being littered with black bars, and you having to guess for yourself: "Would this be something I already know?" but there have been so many times I've encountered the need for a spoiler tag. But yeah...I can see how it would be abused by someone not familar with the forums.

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What about those particular spoiler tags that simply act as links that hide/unhide texts and other stuff? Those seem to be pretty effective and non-obtrusive, compared to the black lines.

This is in reference to the post herel by Psyke that was edited by some Mod.

From what BioAlien said afterwards I'm guessing he (Psyke) provided a link to a site that has all the rules of the Death Note from the Death Note manga on it (two rules are provided with each new episode if you don't know). The link seems to have been removed and a reference to the spoiler rules was made. Now I've read the rules and I thought I understood them, but where does it say that links with warnings are not okay and are subject to deletion as opposed to a mod added spoiler warning? I don't know if Psyke gave a warning that it was a list from the manga or not and I know the rules are written for the lowest common denominator so I'm not trying to argue over this specific incident. However if providing a link to a place that has spoilers is not allowed shouldn't it actually be written in the rules? I know the rules clearly state that links to fanart containing spoilers are allowed if warning is given, but this phantom rule seems to contradict that.

While I wouldenjoy a nice flame war/argument about how unfair and contradictry this rule might be I am instead simply requesting that that if it stands, the rule (Formally: No links to sites that provide spoiler material will be tolerated, unless the material is fanart) be added to the list so people don't make the same mistake again.

This will be a two point response:

• "No spoiling is allowed on this forum whatsoever. Spoiling is regarded as providing information that would be otherwise unknown to the anime-only watcher by a person that has acquired such information from outside sources, for example the manga."
  
  Warning or no warning, you are providing information unknown to anime-only watchers.

• "Those posts and/or comments that would be regarded as spoilers are, but are not limited to"
  
  Notice the portion that says "not limited to"? It's even underlined. That means we as mod can make judgement calls. I felt that providing the rules for the Death Note in the anime thread would make a mockery of the anime discussion, so I decided to remove it. I didn't even give Psyke a warning, seeing as this was a judgement call in my part. But the link to all the Death Note rules you have to agree that it provides very sensitive information.
  
  As you might remember the whole mess that happened in the Fate/stay night thread when someone provided a link to wikipedia, and then everyone in the forum visited the site and pretty much ruined all the surprises the anime had to offer.
  
  And if you read my comment properly, I said "Even if you put a warning," which pretty much is saying that I'm doing an exception of sorts and invoking my super moderation powers. It later on says "I won't allow all DN rules to be posted yet" which pretty much backs up what I mentioned above about this being very sensitive information.

If it matter, I don't watch episode previews and would rather people didn't discuss them.(I don't understand why people watch the previews to begin with, it's just a big 2 minute spoiler for the next episode).

I mean, shit, if I had the ability, I'd avoid see episode titles too. Those things are always huge spoilers. Pisses me right off, but there's nothing I can do to change that one.

If we did have spoiler tags, I'd be okay with them using them in a discussion thread to discuss the preview. As long as they mark that the spoiler pertains too.

So the post would look like:

*discussion about episode*

Preview spoiler
[spoiler]Man, did you see that one shot of whozits using that power on that guy![/spoiler]

*more episode discussion maybe*

*maybe a sig if the person is into that kinda thing*

Well, previews are only good when you are watching a fine currently airing series and "can't wait for" the next week's episode. But nevertheless they are usually included in the subs, so they are valid material. Though it's a rough estimate, but I would say only 15% or so of episode impressions posts ever mention them, if even that.

I doubt any set of rules ever satisfy all the regulars, and when you fall into the minority (hopefully) not being satisfied, it's basically just tough luck. But all in all of all the anime forums I've ever visited, Gotwoot has clearly the most superior and most functional spoiler rules, and I'd say it's even partly due to the missing spoiler tags.

This has already been discussed at length. Spoiler tags will do more harm then good here. It'll just give stupid users a reason to spoil and then try to justify it. As Kraco said, users who dont like preview discussion are in the minority, and there isn't too much preview discussion really, except maybe in the less mainstream stuff in General Anime. If you happen to be in that minorty, well, sucks to be you then. You'll just have to be careful i guess.

More necroing

So when a member is continuously spoiling without realizing it... we leave it alone and hope nobody will notice it? I'm pretty sure not even he knows he's spoiling

Out of curiosity, what context is this? Posts in a series anime thread (from manga or light novel knowledge), unrelated series posts ("This is just like when ___ happened in ___!"), or something else entirely?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Archangel

More necroing

So when a member is continuously spoiling without realizing it... we leave it alone and hope nobody will notice it? I'm pretty sure not even he knows he's spoiling

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If someone notices, use the report function. What's the problem?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Archangel

More necroing

So when a member is continuously spoiling without realizing it... we leave it alone and hope nobody will notice it? I'm pretty sure not even he knows he's spoiling

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That last sentence doesn't quite make sense. By "not even he knows he's spoiling", do you mean:

1) The poster is not aware of the spoiling rules that apply in our forum and is knowingly cross-referencing information without knowledge of our rules, or

2) The poster has difficulty recognising what information is sourced from what material (anime or manga etc)?

#2 means he probably has some issue intrinsic to their mental capacity....

It's not a spoiler until it's pointed out to be a spoiler....read the rules. If they aren't aware they are spoiling, just report it or PM them.

I just don't get how someone can not be aware that they're spoiling... unless they don't know the definition of "spoiling"..

But yeah.. if in doubt, report.

Nevermind, problem solved itself