Crackheaded Naruto Speculation and Opinions

this may be something that is of little revelance but remember when orochimaru attacked konoha and summoned the 1st,2nd and tried to summon the 4th hokage but the third stoped the summoning from happening.What i wanted to know is how he go the 4th's soul when it was lost forever when he used the sealing technique from the explanation the god of death eats your soul wich is lost forever and when he explains the summoning of the past hokages he says he binds there soul to another dead body lol i know this is old but its also interesting :D

hes orochimaru

hes the strongest of the 3 sennin, and he is the one who knows the most amounts of techniques, hell he even has his own village.

i'm pretty sure that technique has little to do with their souls, as he did insert 2 kunai into 1st, and 2nd's heads giving him complete control over them.


just look at it this way, its anime, it dont gotta make sense, its just gotta be fun and interesting

i dont think he needs thier souls per se. that jutsu simple summons the deceased, so it would automatically bring the soul back from wherever it was i think. Cuz its not like he has posession of the 1st and 2nd hokage's souls either.

well remember, he had to as kill him own men to bring them back. So maybe it was their souls that was uses and not the real one. I just wanted their fighting strength.

Or maybe that it was a alteration of the technique, cause the person soul had to be sealed within the person that is trying to seal it. Remember he was the one who created it so different levels to it.

That brings up the question why was it sealed in Naruto are where are his parents. Guess we will all just have to watch to find out... or if you want read the manga.

japanese anime is just confusing they always have double negatives lol look ant neo genisis evagelion one of the most confuseing of them all lol

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Originally Posted by djblingsingh

hes orochimaru

hes the strongest of the 3 sennin, and he is the one who knows the most amounts of techniques, hell he even has his own village.

i'm pretty sure that technique has little to do with their souls, as he did insert 2 kunai into 1st, and 2nd's heads giving him complete control over them.


just look at it this way, its anime, it dont gotta make sense, its just gotta be fun and interesting

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lol orochimaru aint the strongest out of the tree senin imo beacause orochimaru said itachi was stronger then he was and itachi and one of the 7shinobi-gatana said jiraya was stronger then them and would kill them

just wanted to clear that up ^^

1. dont double post. next time you'll get a warning.

2. i dont think he said jiraya was stronger, it was more like, at the time they would've been injured as well, so itachi choose not to fight.

We can gaurantee that the raised hokage had the hokages souls in them, the 3rd was apologizing for sealing their souls in the death gods belly, and you could even see the souls being pulled out.

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Originally Posted by Assassin

1. dont double post. next time you'll get a warning.

2. i dont think he said jiraya was stronger, it was more like, at the time they would've been injured as well, so itachi choose not to fight.

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Itachi said that they would be able to kill Jiraya, but would die in the process. And thats because Jiraya never fights a fair fight, and always changes the terrian and enviroment to suit his needs.

even if he changes the terrain that doesnt matter because its a nija tecnique but they said he could kill them but even if they can kill him they would die in the process. what orocimaru says is itachi is stronger then him so wouldnt that make jiraya stronger lol

I'd like to think that the whole thing works like this.

Itachi > Oro
Oro > Jiraiya
Jiraiya > Itachi

So.... Oro's techniques probably don't work against Itachi, but it works against Jiraiya. Jiraiya's techniques work against Itachi, but doesn't work against Oro.

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Originally Posted by Divinity

I'd like to think that the whole thing works like this.

Itachi > Oro
Oro > Jiraiya
Jiraiya > Itachi

So.... Oro's techniques probably don't work against Itachi, but it works against Jiraiya. Jiraiya's techniques work against Itachi, but doesn't work against Oro.

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Where do you people GET this shit? I mean, do you pull it straight from your asses or does it require some preparation first?

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Originally Posted by Sentenal

Itachi said that they would be able to kill Jiraya, but would die in the process.

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I'm tired of people saying this. Itachi and Kisame were referring to Naruto when they said they would both end up dieing because they didn't know how well he could use his kyuubi power at the time. Episode 83, Itachi and Kisame are talking about how they would die if they fought "him," then say "and his caretaker is Jiraiya..," so obviously they were talking about Naruto.

Now, stfu about the Jiraiya>Itachi BS. We don't know.

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Originally Posted by Sentenal

And thats because Jiraya never fights a fair fight, and always changes the terrian and enviroment to suit his needs.

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lol, don't know where you got this part.. I wish you guys would quit making shit up.

I'm starting to enjoy all the fanfiction in this thread teehee.

I'm dying to know what other gems you have for us.

Jiraiya doesn't fight fair? So I guess mangekyou sharingan is fair then.

There is no such thing as "fairness" in Naruto. The whole point of the unique ninjas is so that they have their own advantages, or create advantageous situations for themselves. That's how they win.

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Originally Posted by mage

I'm tired of people saying this. Itachi and Kisame were referring to Naruto when they said they would both end up dieing because they didn't know how well he could use his kyuubi power at the time. Episode 83, Itachi and Kisame are talking about how they would die if they fought "him," then say "and his caretaker is Jiraiya..," so obviously they were talking about Naruto.

Now, stfu about the Jiraiya>Itachi BS. We don't know.

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First off, your an ass. Secondly, right after that part, after Kisamue says his caretaker is a Legendary Sannin, Kisame says: "Konoha's Uchiha Clan and the Mist's Seven Shinobi-gantana seem petty before his name." This part obviously refers to Jiraiya. And that he is above them both.

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Originally Posted by mage

lol, don't know where you got this part.. I wish you guys would quit making shit up.

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Ass. Lets look at all the major fights Jiraiya has been in. Jiraiya vs. Itachi and Kisame: Jiraiya used the Frog Mouth Trap technique, changing the terrain drastically to Jiraiya's advantage. Jiraiya vs Orochimaru: Orochimaru had summoned 2 snakes. Jiraiya counters with the Hell Swamp technique, trapping both snakes, again changing the terrain to his advantage.

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Originally Posted by Sentenal

First off, your an ass. Secondly, right after that part, after Kisamue says his caretaker is a Legendary Sannin, Kisame says: "Konoha's Uchiha Clan and the Mist's Seven Shinobi-gantana seem petty before his name." This part obviously refers to Jiraiya. And that he is above them both.

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They just meant that his name is more famous than theirs.

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Originally Posted by Sentenal

Ass. Lets look at all the major fights Jiraiya has been in. Jiraiya vs. Itachi and Kisame: Jiraiya used the Frog Mouth Trap technique, changing the terrain drastically to Jiraiya's advantage. Jiraiya vs Orochimaru: Orochimaru had summoned 2 snakes. Jiraiya counters with the Hell Swamp technique, trapping both snakes, again changing the terrain to his advantage.

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How does this make it unfair? There is no "fairness" in a ninja fight. Anyway, even while they were running away after blasting through his frog throat or whatever it was, Kisame says "Why must we retreat? You could've...," implying that he thinks Itachi could have taken Jiraiya on.

You guys are blatantly off topic.

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Originally Posted by bxgreatone87

What i wanted to know is how he go the 4th's soul when it was lost forever when he used the sealing technique from the explanation the god of death eats your soul wich is lost forever and when he explains the summoning of the past hokages he says he binds there soul to another dead body

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Not who would win in a fight, Jiraya or Itachi.

I never really thought about the 4th's soul and body coming back.

Damn... Japanese animes have so many plotholes. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Sentenal

Ass. Lets look at all the major fights Jiraiya has been in. Jiraiya vs. Itachi and Kisame: Jiraiya used the Frog Mouth Trap technique, changing the terrain drastically to Jiraiya's advantage. Jiraiya vs Orochimaru: Orochimaru had summoned 2 snakes. Jiraiya counters with the Hell Swamp technique, trapping both snakes, again changing the terrain to his advantage.

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Again, are you telling me that when Itachi used mangekyou sharingan on Kakashi, it did not give Itachi an advantage? Or that when Oro summoned the 1st and 2nd to fight the 3rd, Oro did not have an advantage in manpower?

but like stated earlier thats apart of being a ninja using techniques to gain an advantage so that doesnt count lol like the uchiha clan and there sharigan that a technique only they have that gives them an advantage thats kinda like jiraya using his techniques to gain advantage so you can never say a ninja cheats its pretty much stupid to think that cause all ninjas use something to gain advantage of a fight

lol yea we went off topic but this is way better then talking about when the fillers will end >.<

my, my, how far we have strayed from the original question. The topic that you all are discussing now is nothing new. I seem to recall an arguement like this one in a bleach vs. naruto thread and a few others as well.

There is nothing such as fairness in ninja warfare. There is only victory.What I mean is the completion of one's mission by any means necessary. Look at some of the techniques they use and i think you will see what i mean.

As far as who is stronger Orochimaru, Jiraiya or Itachi. The answer i came up with is; they all are in there own way.

There have been two fights that we have seen so far between Orochimaru and Jiraiya. Both of which Orochimaru seemed the victor. The first was when he was leaving the village and Jiraiya was trying to persuade him. Jiraiya was not trying to win that fight he was only trying to save his friend. The second we all know was between Tsunade, Orochimaru and Jiraiya, not that i think that really showed there true power.

Itachi and Jiraiya came face to face once, and that is when they tried to kidnap Naruto. Jiraiya used a technique that had never been defeated before, and Itachi used another one to counter it and run away.

When Itachi said the best possibility that they can hope for is that they die taking him down with them (something to that extent). I believe that they were talking about Jiraiya, because Kisame was already there to deal with the chakra problem, as we have seen. That is the reason i believe those two were paired together. If they were powerful enough to take on Jiraiya they wouldn't have had to distract him or run away when that failed.

Itachi's power lies in his sharingan and his brilliant strategies not to mention that he is gifted in fighting as well. But i believe is feared Jiraiya because like he said the only way to defeat him to die taking him down. This i think is from the time Jiraiya was hailed as the "Hero of Konoha" and when the legendary Sanins were born.

Orochimaru i say is powerful as well, why? He controls Manta and for him to do that it shows that he is powerful. For Manta to be taken down, it took Bunta, Jiraiya( at a third of his power) Tsunade and her animal, I forgot her name....

Until there is an clear and decisive battle i will leave it at that. They all are powerful and all have there advantages.

Now back on topic I honestly can't tell you anything. But we all know that he is connected to him in some way, because if i remember correctly the fox demon was stopped before he entered the village. You have got to admit for the little we have seen of the fourth he does look like Naruto or rather Naruto like him minus the fox whiskers mark on his face, which i assume it is due to the fact that the demon fox sealed inside of him.

Just be patience and wait, all will be revealed in time, or atleast enough to allow specluation.

all this speculation in a thread called '4th hokage' ... i'm tempted to change the title to 'crackhead Naruto theories and almost baseless opinions'. Not taking a shot at any of you, but i've heard some pretty wild arguments here and am still wondering how this got so off-topic. You know what, I am changing the title of this thread.

Now here's my little opinion: None of them are 'stronger' than the other.

Yup, you heard me. It barely makes one lick of sense to claim that in some kind of fight anybody could defeat the other. Heck, even Sakura could kill Itachi if she played it right.

Strength is not something that can be measured in terms of any one stat.

ex.
Chouji is physically stronger than Shikamaru. But I don't think anyone here would say that 9 out of 10 times (or even more) Shikamaru would win in a match between them.

Rock Lee is both stronger and faster (and probably smarter as terms of battle tactics) than Gaara. And we all saw how that fight went down.

Heck even those Kabuto-like stats that break down every characters' abilities and traits don't accurately determine who would beat whom. (ex. Delilah destroying Samson. How do you measure the stat of 'trust' or 'awareness' ?)

All we can do is discuss the apparent strengths and weaknesses of the characters and how they might match up in one (of an infinite number) type of fight.

As for the 'who is stronger Jiraiya or Itachi?' one, I'll take a stab:

Jiraiya needs to end this fight early. If he gets caught by Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan it's all over for him. The longer this goes on the more chances Itachi has of catching him with it. He excels in Summon techniques and seems to possess some good melee skills. However, melee combat versus Itachi (who seems to be quite skilled with a blade) and his Sharingan is not advised.

Jiraiya's best bet is either a trap, feint, ambush or some kind of deception that does NOT show any visual signs. (Air-like poison gas, dark/light contrast -even Itachi's eyes should have to take a moment to adjust to rapid changes in lighting, poisons)

Itachi know what he has to do: immobilize Jiraiya with Mangekyou Sharingan. He may want to go in close range, sword swinging, or he may opt to create a diversion that will make Jiraiya look at something and time it so that Jiraiya looks into his eyes when he does Mangekyou Sharingan. We don't know it's details, but Itachi has some super heavy 'dark energy' attack, but it looks to take alot of his energy and Jiraiya has seen its aftermath before (when he and Kisame tried to kidnap Naruto), so probably best to hold that move for an escape creator.

Naturally this kind of fight doesn't take in terrain, allies, familarity with surroundings, equipment, physical condition, mental state at the time, mission objectives and as such is unlikely to ever occur. Each party's objectives are the biggest unknowns and will dictate the battle more than anything.

also, i won't even pretend to know who Itachi was referring to when he said that comment to Kisame. Whatever he meant, i'm not putting much stock in it. Words on the battlefield are often just salt in the sea.

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Originally Posted by bxgreatone87

but like stated earlier thats apart of being a ninja using techniques to gain an advantage so that doesnt count lol like the uchiha clan and there sharigan that a technique only they have that gives them an advantage thats kinda like jiraya using his techniques to gain advantage so you can never say a ninja cheats its pretty much stupid to think that cause all ninjas use something to gain advantage of a fight

lol yea we went off topic but this is way better then talking about when the fillers will end >.<

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why don't you use a fucking period in something other than a smiley, jesus.

Try contributing to the discussion for once rather than nitpick at other users' flaws.

Idea!

We could stop bitching and whining and moaning about the results of fights that havent happened and go back to bitching and whining and moaning about fillers!

its tireing hearing about when will the fillers end something new is always better lol and i never knew you have to have proper grammer in a forum this isnt school you know >.<

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Originally Posted by bxgreatone87

its tireing hearing about when will the fillers end something new is always better lol and i never knew you have to have proper grammer in a forum this isnt school you know >.<

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obviously you need to read the rules notsogreatone.
Rules

Horrible grammar/spelling/AOL talk
You don't have to have the best grammar or have no spelling errors, but do make the effort to write something that's semi-coherent and legible. If you keep posting like you hate the English language, we will murder you.

with only 21 posts you've already accumulated one of the lowest reps i've yet to see... perhaps if you put a little bit of effort in, including spelling and grammar, you'd do much better. You're giving people from NY a bad rep.

AND GET BACK ON TOPIC! Next person to go blatantly off topic is on vacation.
-m

@masa i love the new title. It is very inviting.

And it is true under the right circumstances anyone one can win..... That is why there are people that are called underdogs.

This topic, about who is stronger between Itachi, Jiraiya and Orochimaru, reminded me that just after the infamous line by Itachi "he can kill us" or whatever it was... many theorized that Itachi was a Konoha spy.

Farfetched now actually, but at the time it seemed reasonable.

My current guess is that, despite being a Sannin, Jiraiya's tactics were unknown to Itachi, but he had a good reputation. Despite having been Oro's "teammate" in Akatsuki, he could have never learnt anything about the other Sannins.

I was going to say that Jiraiya has been the only one to "seal" the Amaterasu's fires... but then I remembered that is the only time Itachi has used Amaterasu...