Just so this one doesn't go any farther off topic.
It was an interesting discussion and I'd like to keep it up. Considering Institutional racism (or just being dipshits), are cops assholes for doing their job?
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Just so this one doesn't go any farther off topic.
It was an interesting discussion and I'd like to keep it up. Considering Institutional racism (or just being dipshits), are cops assholes for doing their job?
My two cents, from someone whose had a lot of interactions with police is this: Not all cops are bad, but there are the quintessential "bully graduated high school, couldn't live without his street authority and decides to become a cop to bully more people" ala Harold & Kumar go to White Castle. Those are the guys who usually end up being local police in their hometowns, because they feel they should still have some "turf authority" in their old haunts.
Then there's the whole issue with racial profiling. I don't like that all my friends (and girls especially) can get out of speeding tickets and don't draw attention out on the street, but because i have a dark complexion I get slammed with every minor violation they can think of and get zero slack.
And for Assassin, how many white people do you know that've sold weed? How many black people? Speak from expirience, rather than just trusting the puffed up stats. Like I said, minorities get less slack. What do you think the ratio of caught with weed to prosecuted for the crime to convicted for the crime white people have when compared to minorities? Lets not even bring in the who can afford better lawyers and what kind of stuff cops are on the watch for in 'whiter' neighborhoods as compared to ethnic hoods.
I've never been discriminated by a cop before. I usually get off with a warning. And most of the dealers I know around here are either Chinese or Korean.
Yea I've met some cool cops, for some reason most of the cool ones seem to be on Gang Unit. Then there's the bully cops, there will always be bullys, and there will always be racists. I'll tell you one thing, all cops hate young people, and colored young people even more.
EDIT: lemme rephrase, MOST cops hate young people, since they seem to be the biggest group of troublemakers.
You are such a fucking moron it is almost unbelievable.Quote:
Originally posted by: SK
I'll tell you one thing, all cops hate young people, and colored young people even more.
EDIT:
No, it is unbelievable. I still put my chips on your whole FUCK DA POLICE bullshit being a gimmick.
Maybe in your area there's a lot of assholes SK, but around here cops are pretty nice and easy going.
I can't honestly say that my motto is "Fuck the police!" but I'll be damned if its not "Fuck ME if I can't stay under the radar and out of their sight!"
People like to hate the police because they're the powerful authorities. They also have an impossible job to do and usually lack the resources necessary. It's also easy to forsake those who've once or twice been thorns in your side, but who you're also ignorant about the numerous times they've helped you out and what things would be like without their presence.
Exactly.Quote:
Originally posted by: masamuneehs
It's also easy to forsake those who've once or twice been thorns in your side, but who you're also ignorant about the numerous times they've helped you out and what things would be like without their presence.
Most of the people who hate cops are morons who had negative interactions with the force due to their own carelessness/idiocy/drunken teenage shenanigans etc anyway. And as a result a grudge has been developed. I suppose I would hate cops too if I threw a party and my neighbors would call them to stop the festivities, or perhaps if I got caught red handed selling drugs. Well, tough break for you guys, but for the thinking crowd among us - it's pretty handy with at least some kind of attempt to keep order in this shitty society.
Well, he did say that most of the cops he knew were "cool"Quote:
Originally posted by: Xollence
Maybe in your area there's a lot of assholes SK, but around here cops are pretty nice and easy going.
But then again, for a lot of people, "cool" just means "let's me get away with illegal shit"
No he said some of them.
Terra: Your last post here is the dumbest thing I've read from you yet. Now you claim to know the reasons why most people who hate the police do so? Your claim is the barest of opinion, completely lacking any evidence whatever. Amazing. This is after giving me shit for what you thought was me making a generalization for which you conceded had evidence. Your hypocrisy is astounding.
Evidence or STFU.
Some cops are kick ass, especially the ones who do pot. My dad got pulled over once, with weed, and the cop said, im going to let it slide, since weed isn't that much of a bad thing then beer.
Edit: But there is bully cops out there or dirty ones
LOL, you are a clown.Quote:
Originally posted by: Y
You are such a fucking moron it is almost unbelievable.Quote:
Originally posted by: SK
I'll tell you one thing, all cops hate young people, and colored young people even more.
EDIT:
No, it is unbelievable. I still put my chips on your whole FUCK DA POLICE bullshit being a gimmick.
Right about now NWA court is in full effect.
Judge Dre presiding in the case of NWA versus the police department.
Prosecuting attourneys are MC Ren Ice Cube and Eazy muthafuckin E.
Order order order. Ice Cube take the muthafuckin stand.
Do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth
and nothin but the truth so help your black ass?
Why don't you tell everybody what the fuck you gotta say?
Fuck tha police
Comin straight from the underground
Young nigga got it bad cuz I'm brown
And not the other color so police think
They have the authority to kill a minority
Fuck that shit, cuz I ain't tha one
For a punk muthafucka with a badge and a gun
To be beatin on, and throwin in jail
We could go toe to toe in the middle of a cell
Fuckin with me cuz I'm a teenager
With a little bit of gold and a pager
Searchin my car, lookin for the product
Thinkin every nigga is sellin narcotics
You'd rather see me in the pen
Then me and Lorenzo rollin in the Benzo
Beat tha police outta shape
And when I'm finished, bring the yellow tape
To tape off the scene of the slaughter
Still can't swallow bread and water
I don't know if they fags or what
Search a nigga down and grabbin his nuts
And on the other hand, without a gun they can't get none
But don't let it be a black and a white one
Cuz they slam ya down to the street top
Black police showin out for the white cop
Ice Cube will swarm
On any muthafucka in a blue uniform
Just cuz I'm from the CPT, punk police are afraid of me
A young nigga on a warpath
And when I'm finished, it's gonna be a bloodbath
Of cops, dyin in LA
Yo Dre, I got somethin to say
Fuck the police (4X)
M. C. Ren, will you please give your testimony to the jury about this fucked up incident.>
Fuck tha police and Ren said it with authority
because the niggaz on the street is a majority.
A gang, is with whoever I'm stepping
and the motherfuckin' weapon
is kept in a stash box, for the so-called law
wishin' Ren was a nigga that they never saw
Lights start flashin behind me
But they're scared of a nigga so they mace me to blind me
But that shit don't work, I just laugh
Because it gives em a hint not to step in my path
To the police I'm sayin fuck you punk
Readin my rights and shit, it's all junk
Pullin out a silly club, so you stand
With a fake assed badge and a gun in your hand
But take off the gun so you can see what's up
And we'll go at it punk, I'ma fuck you up
Make ya think I'm a kick your ass
But drop your gat, and Ren's gonna blast
I'm sneaky as fuck when it comes to crime
But I'm a smoke em now, and not next time
Smoke any muthafucka that sweats me
Or any assho that threatens me
I'm a sniper with a hell of a scope
Takin out a cop or two, they can't cope with me
The muthafuckin villian that's mad
With potential to get bad as fuck
So I'm a turn it around
Put in my clip, yo, and this is the sound
Ya, somethin like that, but it all depends on the size of the gat
Takin out a police would make my day
But a nigga like Ren don't give a fuck to say
Fuck the police (4X)
Police, open now. We have a warrant for Eazy-E's arrest.
Get down and put your hands up where I can see em.
Just shut the fuck up and get your muthafuckin ass on the floor.
[huh?]>
and tell the jury how you feel abou this bullshit.>
I'm tired of the muthafuckin jackin
Sweatin my gang while I'm chillin in the shackin
Shining tha light in my face, and for what
Maybe it's because I kick so much butt
I kick ass, or maybe cuz I blast
On a stupid assed nigga when I'm playin with the trigga
Of any Uzi or an AK
Cuz the police always got somethin stupid to say
They put up my picture with silence
Cuz my identity by itself causes violence
The E with the criminal behavior
Yeah, I'm a gansta, but still I got flavor
Without a gun and a badge, what do ya got?
A sucka in a uniform waitin to get shot,
By me, or another nigga.
and with a gat it don't matter if he's smarter or bigger
[MC Ren: Sidle him, kid, he's from the old school, fool]
And as you all know, E's here to rule
Whenever I'm rollin, keep lookin in the mirror
And there's no cue, yo, so I can hear a
Dumb muthafucka with a gun
And if I'm rollin off the 8, he'll be tha one
That I take out, and then get away
And while I'm drivin off laughin
This is what I'll say
Fuck the police (4X)
The jury has found you guilty of bein a redneck,
whitebread, chickenshit muthafucka.
Wait, that's a lie. That's a goddamn lie.
I want justice! I want justice!
Fuck you, you black muthafucka!>
Fuck the police (3X
Don't post shit like that again
Have any of you been beaten to death infront of your houses? If not, thank the police. Damn, I mean i have been fined and all before aswell but comon they do stop things from getting out of hand. Also why the fuck were you breaking the law in the first place? Another question is why do you think you're above the law?
Simply put, only idiots who are dumb enough to break the law hate cops. If you can't live with the law then you deserve to be arrested if you stay in America. Compared to China's cops armed and ready to kill with machine guns on every block or the lack of cops in third world countries like Iraq with no law, anyone who hates cops should consider themselves lucky for what they even have. Oh, and the drug dealers where I live are all white so, no it is not just minorities doing it. And I can't imagine why any cops would hate young people with such charming personalities and a taste for the best in music.
What he said is true for a lot of the people I know and would seem to be true for teenagers in general. You can't back up info like that with data - it all comes from opinions, and the fact is, a lot of young, rebellious teenagers hate cops because they're doing shit wrong and like to bitch about getting busted. It's also true however that there is a problem with Institutional racism in the police force (to what extent, I'm really not sure); and there is the occasional dirty or crooked cop. Just like you said.Quote:
Originally posted by: poopdeville
Terra: Your last post here is the dumbest thing I've read from you yet. Now you claim to know the reasons why most people who hate the police do so? Your claim is the barest of opinion, completely lacking any evidence whatever. Amazing. This is after giving me shit for what you thought was me making a generalization for which you conceded had evidence. Your hypocrisy is astounding.
Evidence or STFU.
A lot of "evidence" is personal experience - you could provide proof for your argument in much the same way. Some pretty good points have been made here, and they've all been done without crunching numbers.
To further drive the discussion, I feel that a distinction ought to be made here. We might talk about three categories of cops: the dipshits who abuse their power, the good ones who do their jobs well but look the other way when a dipshit acts like a dipshit (these correspond roughly to the "institutionally racist" group), and the good ones who actually do something about the dipshits. It tends to be big news when a cop squeals on his fellow cops, and it doesn't make it to the news much, so I think we can assume that the third category is rather small. Correct me if you have any evidence either way.Quote:
Originally posted by: XanBcoo
Just so this one doesn't go any farther off topic.
It was an interesting discussion and I'd like to keep it up. Considering Institutional racism (or just being dipshits), are cops assholes for doing their job?
The first group -- the dipshits -- obviously deserve our contempt. I presume you wouldn't respect a fireman or teacher or minister who harrasses innocent people for no reason. Teachers, firemen, and ministers (as a whole) do good things for society, but that doesn't mean that we ought to give the one's who abuse their status the respect their peers deserve.
The third group -- the stoolies -- clearly deserve our utmost respect for acting with professionalism and doing their job to protect the public from their peers.
The second group -- the good cops who turn a blind eye -- should be held morally responsible for not stopping their peers. They act professionally, so they are not as bad as the dipshits, but they are not doing their jobs. Keep in mind: the police is here to protect and to serve. These guys are failing to protect the public from their dipshit peers.
BOARD_of_command made an observation that bears on these distinctions:
I agree with this observation, and I think it makes the distinctions I've made a little less clear. In particular, it blurs the line between the dipshits and the good cops. We might call the people who knowingly abuse their authority the "real dipshits," the people who, because of institutional pressures unknownly abuse their authority (that is, don't realize they're discriminating against black people, for instance) the "kind of dipshits", and the good cops who do their jobs and squeal on everyone else. I have no evidence to back this up, but I think you'll find that the kind of dipshit cops look upon the good cops as traitors for not falling in line and turning a peer in. This is understandable, since the sort of dipshits don't see themselves as abusing their power.Quote:
Originally posted by: BOARD_of_command
I'm not saying police are right for the things they do. When you work in a specilized field like law enforcement, generalizations begin to take place in your mind.
Now, I've given facts and figures and so forth in previous posts. It's clear that there are not many of the good cops, since this sort of thing would be news worthy. So most cops are either real dipshits or sort of dipshits. I will even grant the assumption that there are very few real dipshit cops. As it stands, most cops are kind of dipshits.
Where does this leave us morally? Should we respect them?
I say no.
Respecting such a person would be like respecting a teacher who "accidentally forgot" to teach her black students fractions.
Fair enough. I'm just holding him to the standard he held me to.Quote:
Originally posted by: XanBcoo
What he said is true for a lot of the people I know and would seem to be true for teenagers in general. You can't back up info like that with data - it all comes from opinions, and the fact is, a lot of young, rebellious teenagers hate cops because they're doing shit wrong and like to bitch about getting busted. It's also true however that there is a problem with Institutional racism in the police force (to what extent, I'm really not sure); and there is the occasional dirty or crooked cop. Just like you said.
OK, I'm done posting for the day. :-)
Don't double post. Edit your previous one instead.
GotWoot Moderator
The idea that it's small because there aren't many people who abuse their power apparently escaped you, but I guess it's commonplace to rage against the police machine.Quote:
Originally posted by: poopdeville
To further drive the discussion, I feel that a distinction ought to be made here. We might talk about three categories of cops: the dipshits who abuse their power, the good ones who do their jobs well but look the other way when a dipshit acts like a dipshit (these correspond roughly to the "institutionally racist" group), and the good ones who actually do something about the dipshits. It tends to be big news when a cop squeals on his fellow cops, and it doesn't make it to the news much, so I think we can assume that the third category is rather small.
Im not going to came here with 200 pages of data, pools or evidences, im just going to give my own opinion its a conditioned one tough.
Like all the ppl in the world there are bad and good cops, and a great spectre between them. The concept of security forces appeared for the fisrt time in past old days when rulers, wanted privileges and used the security of their ppl to make this "cops" (wich made some security job but well, their first works where the protection of the status, rulers with lots of priviledges and worker-slaves) this happened in all cultures arround the world for the last thousands of years.
Our police corps, i mean on 1st world states are the lesser evil, wich at sometimes is the greatest good (i remark sometimes). The problem of this corps is that they are conected to their superiors, chiefs-ministers-politicians etc. We live in a quiet corrupted world (this isnt something new for any1 is it?), those police workers (the ones that made the real job) have to do what they are told by their supperiors, which sometimes isnt to look for the citizens protection at all, or they justify that citizens need to be protected from themselves (a dangerous path to take).
In my country there was a terrorist attack on some trains more than a year ago. 200 killed and thousands of injured. They made the investigation and found out that the explosives sold to the terrorist where explosives that one of our (police-military) security forces gave to an informant, who sold them to the terrorist, and no1 did anything. And that is only the begining of the story, keeps going with chiefs that sold weapons to ppl, polices that shot 20 times an informant who was on the plot etc.
The investigation was closed fast and without searching the truth (not because they were the terrorist and guys who put the bombs, but because they cant afford to make public how bad the things work in our country, and show that they dont have much control of things going on: the greatets fear of a state is to reveal that it doesnt work, they are being paid for nothing, they are weak).
This is just an example, the worst, but this kind of things turn any good job they made in to shit. I could speak a lot more but sadly english is my 3rd lenguage and i wouldnt be able to explain myself to well.
Bye.
I'm pretty much in agreement with you here. But I don't think good cops who do their jobs well is such as small group as you say it is. I think most police officers are going to do the right thing, or at least, not do the wrong thing. The fact that cops "squeal on other cops" has nothing to do with whether they enforce the law in the way they should or not.Quote:
Originally posted by: poopdeville
To further drive the discussion, I feel that a distinction ought to be made here. We might talk about three categories of cops: the dipshits who abuse their power, the good ones who do their jobs well but look the other way when a dipshit acts like a dipshit (these correspond roughly to the "institutionally racist" group), and the good ones who actually do something about the dipshits. It tends to be big news when a cop squeals on his fellow cops, and it doesn't make it to the news much, so I think we can assume that the third category is rather small. Correct me if you have any evidence either way.
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In other news regarding President Bush.
http://www.bush.com
"The UN special envoy for HIV/Aids in Africa accused the Bush administration of responsibility for a condom shortage."
I went to New Orleans and all I looted was this lousy T-shirt. Another says: Disaster Relief: Get Rid of Bush
Song lyrics not allowed anymore krb?Quote:
Originally posted by: Krbadass
Don't post shit like that again
~1~
Some famous food for thought on this matter:
Follow your inclinations with due regard to the policeman round the corner.
W. Somerset Maugham (1874 - 1965), 'Of Human Bondage', 1915
Any community's arm of force - military, police, security - needs people in it who can do necessary evil, and yet not be made evil by it. To do only the necessary and no more. To constantly question the assumptions, to stop the slide into atrocity.
Lois McMaster Bujold, "Barrayar", 1991
Every kind of peaceful cooperation among men is primarily based on mutual trust and only secondarily on institutions such as courts of justice and police.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
oooo, that's a good one.Quote:
Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Any community's arm of force - military, police, security - needs people in it who can do necessary evil, and yet not be made evil by it. To do only the necessary and no more. To constantly question the assumptions, to stop the slide into atrocity.
Lois McMaster Bujold, "Barrayar", 1991
"needs people in it who can do necessary evil, and yet not be made evil by it."
yep, that sounds right to me.
if you sign up to be a cop, and from the beginning you're forced to arrest mostly black people, you'll easily grow to hate them.
I get about 20-30 of these in my school e-mail every semester. It's not the cops fault if mostly blacks in a certain area are causing crime. I've been here for 5 years and I know for a fact from experience that once you walk down a certain street off campus you will get mugged by a group of black men. So most of the arrests involve black people, but is that the cops' fault?
The following reports were received from the South Orange Police Department yesterday regarding two incidents:
Incident #1: September 17, 2005
At approximately 2:00 a.m., four Seton Hall University students were the targets of an attempted robbery as they walked to a car on Fairview Avenue several blocks from campus. The students reported that as the driver of the students vehicle was unlocking the car door, a maroon Dodge Intrepid, occupied by four black males, pulled up along side it. One black male, his face covered by a red bandana, exited the vehicle, ran up to the student and demanded her keys and valuables.
When the intended victims began calling for help, the attacker retreated to the Dodge which then fled the scene. The South Orange Police immediately responded to the scene, broadcast a statewide alert and shortly thereafter police located the vehicle and arrested the four occupants who were found to be in possession several weapons.
Investigation by the South Orange Police also revealed that these individuals were involved in the attempted robbery of a Seton Hall University student reported to the community on August 29, 2005. These men were also charged with that incident.
Incident #2: September 10, 2005
A Seton Hall student reported that at approximately, 12:30 a.m. he was confronted by an individual at Ward Place and South Orange Avenue who attempted to rob him as he walked alone. The student describes the subject as a black male, 63 wearing a maroon track suit and a Yankee hat. At the time of the incident, the suspect approached the student and demanded his wallet. Upon finding the wallet empty of cash the suspect ran east.
Bah, cops differ from place to place, that much is obvious.
here in my country, for instance, they are not trusted. They are a bunch of corrupt morons, that's why - they take advantage of people, extort, and you can pay them 5 bucks for them to pretend they didn't see you parking where you shouldn't, things like that.
But when I was in Japan, for instance, it was completely different. Once I was walking alone at 11:30 PM and these two cops were genuinely concerned about my safety and offered to walk me home. I was scared shitless because, had it been my country, I would've been raped, probably. But that's the wonders of a First World country like Japan.
But whether they are bad or good, they are needed. Without ANYTHING (cops or soldiers or whatever) to enforce some kind of law, we would fall into annarchy and that would be ten times worse than cops. It would go down to "Who is the strongest?" or, in this modern world, "Who has the most guns?". Can you say you'd really want to live like that? For the sake of balance, forces like the police are needed.
All democracy degenerates into anarchy. Cops or no cops.
~1~
SK, your overly broad statements still tend to miss the mark...
Winged Dancer, what country do you live in? I've had vastly different experiences with police depending on the country. Police in London and some touristy islands in the Caribbean (St. Maartens in particular) have been all very courteous and helpful, while also letting minor stuff go on in order to keep watch for more serious, dangerous dealings. I've only had one run-in with a Canadian cop (no, he wasn't a mounty) and that it was Quebec so his English was spotty, but he ended up being nicer than what i'd imagine US cops in his situation would have been...
I've found a vast difference in city cops and rural cops. The ones out in the boonies seem a little bit more full of themselves, maybe its something to do with the isolation or the small number of big-time crimes to attend to... and i've especially felt discriminated against by rural cops, north and south of the Mason Dixon.
My two cents on the police is basically summed up by you get the police force you pay for. A good police force, like most public services, is something everyone wants to have but noone wants to spend the money to buy. In many countries the salary for a cop is awful, especially considering the work they do and the risks they take, and then everyone's surprised when they can't attract talented people to do the job.
If cops have decent salaries then there's more competition for the jobs and they get better people. If the salaries are bad they get whoever they can get, and end up with people who are in it for the bribes or who want the job so they can bully others. Now, it's true I bitch about taxes as much as the next person, but I think having honest, skilled people keeping the peace is worth the money it takes.
honestly cops are assholes unless, im half asian so cops like to give me dirty looks *those fucking assholes* its happened quite a bit so its not like a couple of cops did it im sayin like 15-20 cops
off-topic - you guys know why there's a helmet law right? (basically im also saying some laws are fucking gay)
I think you're just paranoid. I'm Asian too and I've never had problems with cops before. I guess it all depends on your area too.Quote:
Originally posted by: Zinobi
honestly cops are assholes unless their not white, im half asian so cops like to give me dirty looks *those fucking assholes*, im not saying that all white people are assholes but most are to me.
off-topic - you guys know why there's a helmet law right? (basically im also saying some laws are fucking gay)
Jesus, why the fuck do people think their own narrow experiences are enough to stereotype in this day and age?Quote:
Originally posted by: Zinobi
honestly cops are assholes unless their not white
@Xollence well its happened a couple of times but most ppl cant tell im half asian so iono but thts wht im assuming
@Y well i didnt mean all white cops but most of them, sry
So you're saying just because you got into some run ins with white cops that most white cops are the same? That's like saying most half asians are racists because of their inferiority complex.
Congratulations, you're a racist!Quote:
Originally posted by: Zinobi
honestly cops are assholes unless their not white
~1~