Gundams

I just finished watching episode 43 and started thinking about the Gundams in this series and came to the conclusion that most of them Suck.

When I saw the Freedom come out and flex its muscle in the original series I was awestruck as to the sheer power it had. In this New series the Gundam that was supposed to be THE Gundam of the series, the Destiny was pathetic. It has some power but compared to all the other Gundams its nothing special.

Now when I saw the Strike Freedom, I was weary because I loved the original but it was even batter than the original. Though I have never been one for any mobile suit with a abdomen cannon or face cannon because it reminds me of the Fem Bots from Austin powers with their nipple guns.

Now to the Justice, I never thought this Gundam was anything special in either series, it never seemed to be overly unique like the Freedom or have the firepower. Am I alone in that judgement??

I am curious to hear what all of you have to say about the Gundams in this show.

justice is very refined like a samurai sword that has been built carefully and sharpened and perfected. i mean it has beamswords on its legs which is pretty sweet. it has a subflight lifter which it is the only one to have. not to mention its has a beam holder shield and a grapple cannon. and 2 more beamswords on the subflight lifter. freedom's chest cannon isnt uniqe cuz its from calmity. calamity also has shoulder guns. its draggons are from providence, akatasuki also has torso guns (now im not saying its not uniqe, im just saying ur sorta defining it wrong). justice doesnt havemuch firepower as we should say, its has more slicing power. freedom couldnt hurt destiny but justice did. freedom is more of a crowd control SUPER uber range gundam justice is more of a 1v1 beamsword up the wazzo and beams falling outta his ass bot. they both have different purposes. now freedom is more flashy, cuz lasers and flasher than swinging beamswords... doesnt mean its worse. it seems u are very attractied to flashy stuff lol. like omg SO SWEET LOOK AT THOSE LASERS!!!!!! which isnt bad. im personally more of a omg so speedously fast, so precise with that slicing action! i am not impressed by guns or cannons cuz they always seem so useless in 1v1s ( i mean the good piolts like never get shot, they always get sliced. the final battle is always a beamsword fight, in which justice excells in) if u read the other posts about athurn vs kira and about freedom and justice, most ppl like them equally, as do i basically(although if i HAD to pick one id pick justice). they are both friggin sweet. freedom is just flashier, not as precise as justice.

Justice is the first gundam swiss army knife

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Originally posted by: RodimusT
I just finished watching episode 43 and started thinking about the Gundams in this series and came to the conclusion that most of them Suck.

When I saw the Freedom come out and flex its muscle in the original series I was awestruck as to the sheer power it had. In this New series the Gundam that was supposed to be THE Gundam of the series, the Destiny was pathetic. It has some power but compared to all the other Gundams its nothing special.

Now when I saw the Strike Freedom, I was weary because I loved the original but it was even batter than the original. Though I have never been one for any mobile suit with a abdomen cannon or face cannon because it reminds me of the Fem Bots from Austin powers with their nipple guns.

Now to the Justice, I never thought this Gundam was anything special in either series, it never seemed to be overly unique like the Freedom or have the firepower. Am I alone in that judgement??

I am curious to hear what all of you have to say about the Gundams in this show.

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Chest or abdomen beam cannon is nothing special, been used in many Gundam shows before.
Infinite Justice is nice Gundam. And packed to the boot. Suits Athrun.

just because SF has all those guns doesn't mean it's unstoppable, a good pilot like athrun might be able to dodge them, the show just makes SF hit everything with his beams to make it look "godly". IJ on the otherhand is packed with lots of beamswords and a flightpack and with the skills of athrun it can be deadly and capable of millions of strategies with it's leg and flightpack beamswords and the flightpack can be controlled too and it has 2 beam cannons in it so you can distract your opponent with the flightpack and then sneak up on him and tear him to shreds, it's hella fast too

Yea great work calling Freedom "original" and "cool" when calling Justice "not special". Seriously Freedom got some fire power so what? Justice is the shit, it got a detachable flightpack which it can use for tactics. Infinite Justice is even better it got Beam swords everywhere.

Freedom and Justice was quite balanced, Justice was a little bit better in close range and Freedom a little bit better on a distance, with IJ and SF they took this and made SF into a long range unit and IJ to a short range suit.

Still Justice is the more original one, i have never seen beam swords on the wings of a flight pack and never seen beam swords between a suits knee and foot. Dragoons are already old, there have been new-types with that kind of weapon before only now they said that every idiot can control them and put them on Freedom. Yea thats original eh?

First off I find it amusing that nobody is commenting on destiny at all. Mostly because its been quite possibly the sadest gundam ever introduced for a main character. Sure it took out 4 destroys but then again they showed Lunamaria take one down her first time in Impulse given with a little help from legend. So I think its fairly safe to say that Destiny is horrible not only has it been damaged already by Athrun and Kira but its weapons are nothing more then sticking all the things from the impulse packs onto one backpack.

As for freedom I simply find it the most appealing Gundam visually. Yes its powerful and Kira is a exceptional pilot but when it comes down to it Justice is just ugly and out of proportion in compairison. This shows most in the flight pack which to me atleast is just plain hideous. Given Justice is powerful in its own right its not the kind of backbreaker that Strike Freedom is to an opposing army I just can't see justice taking out dozens of suits simply due to its short range weapons. Given we have not seen Justice in action yet with Athrun in perfect condition so chances are it will impress me more at a later time.

Legend on the other hand is nothing more then another providence once again its backpack makes it look just plain silly and the fact that it was orignally given to Athrun is just a testiment to the fact Gil intended it for Rei there isn't a single weapon on the suit that even remotely seems suitable for Athrun.

Oh and I don't feel like talking about shiney gundam as its basically take aile strike gold plate it and add rail guns. Note it could also be a gold plated justice with railguns its hard to tell with it being so shiney.

essentially my breakdown is as follows based on looks alone.
1. Strike Freedom
2. Destiny
3. Infinate Justice/Legend

Power wise atleast so far I'd list them as follows.
1. Strike Freedom
2. Infinate Justice (note this is likely even with SF however so far it has done nothing all that special)
3. Legend/Destiny (likely destiny should be lower as its been simply pathetic so far and Shin seems completely unable to retrieve a beam boomarang after throwing it. That said atleast legend hasn't taken any real damage even if it hasn't done anything)

Destiny is definitely not "horrible".

Lunamaria took out a Destroy along with help from Legend, but Destiny took out 4. That's a pretty big difference.

I personally prefer Destiny over both SF & IJ, as they are both just the same suit as Kira & Athrun had before but with a few added shiny parts which makes fanboys drool. A lot of people call Destiny shit because it's introduction wasn't "cool". Nor does it have it's own theme song. But who gives a shit? This is supposed to be a war drama first and foremost. Destiny didn't have a flashy introduction but at least it brings something new (mainly thinking of the rainbow wings) as opposed to the other main character suits which are just pitiful in originality (how can we improve Freedom? I know, let's give it funnels!). Fuck that.

Destiny FTW

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Originally posted by: RodimusT
I just finished watching episode 43 and started thinking about the Gundams in this series and came to the conclusion that most of them Suck.

When I saw the Freedom come out and flex its muscle in the original series I was awestruck as to the sheer power it had. In this New series the Gundam that was supposed to be THE Gundam of the series, the Destiny was pathetic. It has some power but compared to all the other Gundams its nothing special.

Now when I saw the Strike Freedom, I was weary because I loved the original but it was even batter than the original. Though I have never been one for any mobile suit with a abdomen cannon or face cannon because it reminds me of the Fem Bots from Austin powers with their nipple guns.

Now to the Justice, I never thought this Gundam was anything special in either series, it never seemed to be overly unique like the Freedom or have the firepower. Am I alone in that judgement??

I am curious to hear what all of you have to say about the Gundams in this show.

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I like Destiny...

It seems that out of all the new Gundams it has the least amount of Firepower...but heck Shinn only needs the anti-ship sword and the rest is history...

As much as I like SF, Legend and IJ...Destiny has grown to become my favourite...

Maybe it's because he wields the anti-ship sword like it's a beam saber...who knows...but it's definitely my favourite.

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Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Destiny is definitely not "horrible".

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I'm not going only by the introduction and lack of theme music. Considering that Destiny's accomplishment is that it took out 4 destroys which overall considering even Stellar in a destroy was essentially nothing to both Kira and Shinn when it showed up. Note Shinn cut open the cockpit on the first attempt and Freedom took absolutely no damage from it. I'm not overly impressed by something they essentially showed that any of the main characters could do in there respective Gundams they started the series in. Although it is noted neither Rey or Athrun had working MS's in which they could try it.

I'm just disappointed in the suit as its been showed to be no better then essentially Strike at the beginning of Gundam seed. Its so far run out of power, taken major damage and essentially made no differnce in the battle against orb as soon as a named pilot showed up. Given it was Kira who as you have stated has really been shown as sort of godley but still even Calgari in her shiney Gundam made a noteable differnce in the battle even with her piss poor skills. I just see nothing truely desireable.

What I mean is that just because it isn't SF, it isn't horrible.
It might not be as good as the other new suits, but I wouldn't call it bad by any means.

Akatsuki is sort of "IDDQD" kind of suit if you ever played DOOM.
If it would not have reflective coating Shinn would've taken it out with first shot.
Check episode 40 once again - Shinn aimed directly at cockpit!
Cagalli did not block that shot.
Next shot - head. Also not blocked.
Shinn moves in for melee with his basic charge, Cagalli blocks it.
Next attack with beam boomerang - left arm lost.
Then Kira interferes, saving Cagalli. Otherwise Shinn would've sliced her to pieces.

I still like Sword Impulse the most. Probably because it had "cool" introduction in ep 1 /shrug
Gaia is close to it, i like 4-legged beast form.

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Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
Justice is the first gundam swiss army knife

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What do you mean by that? I thought Justice was pretty plain. Infinite Justice seems to be really awesome (I'm waiting until it has a healthy pilot), but Justice wasn't that special in my opinion.

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Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Destiny is definitely not "horrible".

Lunamaria took out a Destroy along with help from Legend, but Destiny took out 4. That's a pretty big difference.

I personally prefer Destiny over both SF & IJ, as they are both just the same suit as Kira & Athrun had before but with a few added shiny parts which makes fanboys drool. A lot of people call Destiny shit because it's introduction wasn't "cool". Nor does it have it's own theme song. But who gives a shit? This is supposed to be a war drama first and foremost. Destiny didn't have a flashy introduction but at least it brings something new (mainly thinking of the rainbow wings) as opposed to the other main character suits which are just pitiful in originality (how can we improve Freedom? I know, let's give it funnels!). Fuck that.

Destiny FTW

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is that because of destiny or because of shinn? its arugeable that if shinn was still in impulse he could've owned too. its also argueable that luna and rey were only able to take out a destiny because of shinn's command (to have luna switch to sword) or else rey would still be shooting his dragoons that pretty much every single god damn gundam can deflect now (what is up with these deflecters? cant people dodge anymore?)

if you think IJ sucks you are an idiot, it kicks hard ass. though i'm not saying destiny is bad, i mean comon "SHINNING FINGER!"

i'm not sure if legend has it but having palm cannons is useful (took out a destroy with that)

Well about the pilots, that's true, but if we use that as means of comparison; we'll never find out what suits are good and which ones are bad, right?

Yes I think IJ sucks. But that's because I didn't like Justice, and Justice with a few added parts is not gonna change my opinion.
If that makes me an idiot, then sure, go ahead and call me one.

I also happen to enjoy Destiny's homage to G Gundam.

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Originally posted by: DDBen
First off I find it amusing that nobody is commenting on destiny at all. Mostly because its been quite possibly the sadest gundam ever introduced for a main character. Sure it took out 4 destroys but then again they showed Lunamaria take one down her first time in Impulse given with a little help from legend. So I think its fairly safe to say that Destiny is horrible not only has it been damaged already by Athrun and Kira but its weapons are nothing more then sticking all the things from the impulse packs onto one backpack.

As for freedom I simply find it the most appealing Gundam visually. Yes its powerful and Kira is a exceptional pilot but when it comes down to it Justice is just ugly and out of proportion in compairison. This shows most in the flight pack which to me atleast is just plain hideous. Given Justice is powerful in its own right its not the kind of backbreaker that Strike Freedom is to an opposing army I just can't see justice taking out dozens of suits simply due to its short range weapons. Given we have not seen Justice in action yet with Athrun in perfect condition so chances are it will impress me more at a later time.

Legend on the other hand is nothing more then another providence once again its backpack makes it look just plain silly and the fact that it was orignally given to Athrun is just a testiment to the fact Gil intended it for Rei there isn't a single weapon on the suit that even remotely seems suitable for Athrun.

Oh and I don't feel like talking about shiney gundam as its basically take aile strike gold plate it and add rail guns. Note it could also be a gold plated justice with railguns its hard to tell with it being so shiney.

essentially my breakdown is as follows based on looks alone.
1. Strike Freedom
2. Destiny
3. Infinate Justice/Legend

Power wise atleast so far I'd list them as follows.
1. Strike Freedom
2. Infinate Justice (note this is likely even with SF however so far it has done nothing all that special)
3. Legend/Destiny (likely destiny should be lower as its been simply pathetic so far and Shin seems completely unable to retrieve a beam boomarang after throwing it. That said atleast legend hasn't taken any real damage even if it hasn't done anything)

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ok first of all how is justice out of proportion... proportions seem nice to me and flightpack isnt stupid it is very usefull and makes him uber fast... and justice as done alot more to scale of amount of time aired than freedom. on athurns first launch when he was half dead and bleeding he managed to pzoned shin's arm in like 1 second. what did freedom do? oh wait it didnt damage shin. saying infinte justice is stupid is just retarded. its just as good as fredom if not better. freedom did not damage desinty, he hit destiy but did NOT damage him. freedom with a healthy piolt manages to have a close fight with destiny. justice with a almost dead piolt gravely disables destiny in a single strike i wonder which one is better(note im using ur same flawed logic)?. by saying legend is nothing special and its just another prvidence, it was MEANT that way... so by ur interpretation ill just say sfreedom is nothing speecial, its just like the old one (sf is special, im just using ur own flawed logic again. if a suit is meant to be like an old one, then it should be similar to it...)... also, u cant image ij taking out alota suits. shin takes out a crapload of stuff with 1 sword... ij has like 6 times as much.. ij can slice those ppl up even faster than destiny.

DDBen = Strike Freedom fanboy.

I prefer Infinite Justice over the others. The original Justice was honestly just a first generation gundam with a subflight lifter and a nuclear reactor, its really like a slightly upgraded Duel Assault Shroud version. Even though Infinite Justice looks similar to the original Justice, its really heavily modified and much better this time around. Just a correction of an above post, the subflight lifter has 4 beam sabers and 2 beam cannons, while the suit itself has 4 beam sabers, a beam rifle, a beam boomerang modded with the shield to allow him to defend (shield & beam shield)/melee attack (beam boomerang on shield)/ranged attack (beam rifle in opposite hand) at the same time, and a grappling hook. Freedom and Strike Freedom are almost the same. A new shield and a few DRAGOONs isn't really a huge upgrade for Freedom's design, infact I think it was taken in the wrong direction while Legend was taken in the right direction. Legend seems to have slightly upgraded defense and melee capabilities as compared to Providence, which means he can beam spam with DRAGOONs and keep himself almost completely defended, making the way Kira finished off Rau invalid for Legend.

Destiny I think is overrated and underrated at the same time. Destiny's speed is completely overrated, Shinn was spamming the Wings of Light versus both Kira and Athrun and it really wasn't that much of an advantage against either of their suits, or the pilots themselves. Its ability to adapt though is extremely underrated. Yes, none of its individual weapons systems match any single system on Impulse, but I suspect that Shinn hasn't really utilized his suit's potential very well yet. It could potentially pull an Infinite Justice (the combo I stated above) and pull off a combined melee/ranged strike, on multiple targets even. Visually, I don't think Destiny is that interesting, i've mistaken its sillouette for Strike Freedom before and the Wings of Light don't make up for it in my opinion.

I feel pretty much the same way as Barumonk on this subject, though I dissagree that the beam wings are useless. They might not nessessarily make it faster, but it does give off that wierd visual effect and that's usually enough to throw off most opponents in meele combat., though any ace pilot will not be so easily intimidated. That's the way I see it. And if I'm right about this, it would seem pretty useless unless it's a fight where both pilots are rookies, but in a tactical sense, it could be useful to Shin against a large number of foes as it would help him take out more enemies faster.

Not all weapons need to increase capabilities or power to be effective. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

To me, all of those units are pretty much equal except for Legend who gets a severe dissadvantage in areas with gravity. Though I don't know how it'll fair in space. Even though it's definitely a step in the right direction from Providence, but I still think it's too reliant on favorable conditions to be any real good.

I've been over what each machine is capable of and what they can achieve with their weapons and they all balance out rather well. The only thing though, SF only slightly outclasses Destiny due to it's Dragoons, but only by a little since 1, it's a waste and dead weight in the atmosphere while Destiny remains as versatile in any condition and 2, it covers all of it's ranges well and effectively.

Only reason why it's got so much trouble beating other main units is usually because of the pilots he's u against and their state of mind.

I also want to take this moment to remind everyone that Kira has one fatal flaw. He's too kind. I'm sure he could have dealt with Shin just fine in any of the times he fought against him if he didn't hold back. there were many ocasions where this was shown in the way he fighs, even in his apearences with the SF.

yea justice was plain but it looked cool

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Originally posted by: SkyReaper
I feel pretty much the same way as Barumonk on this subject, though I dissagree that the beam wings are useless. They might not nessessarily make it faster, but it does give off that wierd visual effect and that's usually enough to throw off most opponents in meele combat., though any ace pilot will not be so easily intimidated. That's the way I see it. And if I'm right about this, it would seem pretty useless unless it's a fight where both pilots are rookies, but in a tactical sense, it could be useful to Shin against a large number of foes as it would help him take out more enemies faster.

Not all weapons need to increase capabilities or power to be effective. [img][/img]

To me, all of those units are pretty much equal except for Legend who gets a severe dissadvantage in areas with gravity. Though I don't know how it'll fair in space. Even though it's definitely a step in the right direction from Providence, but I still think it's too reliant on favorable conditions to be any real good.

I've been over what each machine is capable of and what they can achieve with their weapons and they all balance out rather well. The only thing though, SF only slightly outclasses Destiny due to it's Dragoons, but only by a little since 1, it's a waste and dead weight in the atmosphere while Destiny remains as versatile in any condition and 2, it covers all of it's ranges well and effectively.

Only reason why it's got so much trouble beating other main units is usually because of the pilots he's u against and their state of mind.

I also want to take this moment to remind everyone that Kira has one fatal flaw. He's too kind. I'm sure he could have dealt with Shin just fine in any of the times he fought against him if he didn't hold back. there were many ocasions where this was shown in the way he fighs, even in his apearences with the SF.

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good post. i agree with everything except for legend. the one and only advantage legend has is it can use its draggons in gravity while sf cannot (they can pivot but not detach. atleast they can shoot). that can be a huge advantage sometimes.

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Originally posted by: drunkenmaster

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Originally posted by: SkyReaper
I feel pretty much the same way as Barumonk on this subject, though I dissagree that the beam wings are useless. They might not nessessarily make it faster, but it does give off that wierd visual effect and that's usually enough to throw off most opponents in meele combat., though any ace pilot will not be so easily intimidated. That's the way I see it. And if I'm right about this, it would seem pretty useless unless it's a fight where both pilots are rookies, but in a tactical sense, it could be useful to Shin against a large number of foes as it would help him take out more enemies faster.

Not all weapons need to increase capabilities or power to be effective.

To me, all of those units are pretty much equal except for Legend who gets a severe dissadvantage in areas with gravity. Though I don't know how it'll fair in space. Even though it's definitely a step in the right direction from Providence, but I still think it's too reliant on favorable conditions to be any real good.

I've been over what each machine is capable of and what they can achieve with their weapons and they all balance out rather well. The only thing though, SF only slightly outclasses Destiny due to it's Dragoons, but only by a little since 1, it's a waste and dead weight in the atmosphere while Destiny remains as versatile in any condition and 2, it covers all of it's ranges well and effectively.

Only reason why it's got so much trouble beating other main units is usually because of the pilots he's u against and their state of mind.

I also want to take this moment to remind everyone that Kira has one fatal flaw. He's too kind. I'm sure he could have dealt with Shin just fine in any of the times he fought against him if he didn't hold back. there were many ocasions where this was shown in the way he fighs, even in his apearences with the SF.

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good post. i agree with everything except for legend. the one and only advantage legend has is it can use its draggons in gravity while sf cannot (they can pivot but not detach. atleast they can shoot). that can be a huge advantage sometimes.

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SF can pivot his dragoon system also you know. But like Legend, it can't detach.

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Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
ok first of all how is justice out of proportion... proportions seem nice to me and flightpack isnt stupid it is very usefull and makes him uber fast... and justice as done alot more to scale of amount of time aired than freedom. on athurns first launch when he was half dead and bleeding he managed to pzoned shin's arm in like 1 second. what did freedom do? oh wait it didnt damage shin. saying infinte justice is stupid is just retarded. its just as good as fredom if not better. freedom did not damage desinty, he hit destiy but did NOT damage him. freedom with a healthy piolt manages to have a close fight with destiny. justice with a almost dead piolt gravely disables destiny in a single strike i wonder which one is better(note im using ur same flawed logic)?. by saying legend is nothing special and its just another prvidence, it was MEANT that way... so by ur interpretation ill just say sfreedom is nothing speecial, its just like the old one (sf is special, im just using ur own flawed logic again. if a suit is meant to be like an old one, then it should be similar to it...)... also, u cant image ij taking out alota suits. shin takes out a crapload of stuff with 1 sword... ij has like 6 times as much.. ij can slice those ppl up even faster than destiny.

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First off Infinate Justice is out of proportion because in every image I have seen of it the flight pack simply makes the suit look dumpy I find that visually at the very least it seems far to large. Second Justice so far has really done next to nothing once again Shin was having some emotional trama and as a result Athrun using his seed mode defeated Shinn's berserk seed and removed destiny's hand. We really don't see the extend of damage just that he made a slashmark acrost the wrist of the mobile suit. On the same note Kira virtually disarmed Destiny taking out all its short range weapons that were a problem for his beam shields except possibly the hands and almost completely depleating Shinn's power. Kira Frankly could have gone for the kill but instead took the chance he was given with Destiny's retreat to clean up the battlefield and take out as many suits as possible.

Given that doesn't really matter this is not a episode discussion and my comments are not based on the tech specs of the suits but rather what they have been shown doing in the show. Note that reguardless of pilot what the suit does is based on the suits capabilites otherwise the pilot could never do a given move in a suit. This makes the most accurate way to determine a suits capabilities for you to take what the suit has done with the best pilot we have seen use it. This goes for a Gouf as well which has been shown as blantant cannon fodder following Heines death while when used by Heine himself they made it seem much more badass.

Please note I do think IJ has promise and I will like it a lot more after seeing it in action but so far its been shown as very plain as Athrun used next to none of its weapons in episode 43. I understand it has tons of beam weapons but until they are really shown in action its very hard to gauge the value of them.

as for PSJ why don't you stop bitching and state your own opinion as you obviously have no idea about mine at the very least. You don't have to be a fanboy to think a certain suit visually looks better then another one. Simply put some gundams look horrible .

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Originally posted by: DDBen

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Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
ok first of all how is justice out of proportion... proportions seem nice to me and flightpack isnt stupid it is very usefull and makes him uber fast... and justice as done alot more to scale of amount of time aired than freedom. on athurns first launch when he was half dead and bleeding he managed to pzoned shin's arm in like 1 second. what did freedom do? oh wait it didnt damage shin. saying infinte justice is stupid is just retarded. its just as good as fredom if not better. freedom did not damage desinty, he hit destiy but did NOT damage him. freedom with a healthy piolt manages to have a close fight with destiny. justice with a almost dead piolt gravely disables destiny in a single strike i wonder which one is better(note im using ur same flawed logic)?. by saying legend is nothing special and its just another prvidence, it was MEANT that way... so by ur interpretation ill just say sfreedom is nothing speecial, its just like the old one (sf is special, im just using ur own flawed logic again. if a suit is meant to be like an old one, then it should be similar to it...)... also, u cant image ij taking out alota suits. shin takes out a crapload of stuff with 1 sword... ij has like 6 times as much.. ij can slice those ppl up even faster than destiny.

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First off Infinate Justice is out of proportion because in every image I have seen of it the flight pack simply makes the suit look dumpy I find that visually at the very least it seems far to large. Second Justice so far has really done next to nothing once again Shin was having some emotional trama and as a result Athrun using his seed mode defeated Shinn's berserk seed and removed destiny's hand. We really don't see the extend of damage just that he made a slashmark acrost the wrist of the mobile suit. On the same note Kira virtually disarmed Destiny taking out all its short range weapons that were a problem for his beam shields except possibly the hands and almost completely depleating Shinn's power. Kira Frankly could have gone for the kill but instead took the chance he was given with Destiny's retreat to clean up the battlefield and take out as many suits as possible.

Given that doesn't really matter this is not a episode discussion and my comments are not based on the tech specs of the suits but rather what they have been shown doing in the show. Note that reguardless of pilot what the suit does is based on the suits capabilites otherwise the pilot could never do a given move in a suit. This makes the most accurate way to determine a suits capabilities for you to take what the suit has done with the best pilot we have seen use it. This goes for a Gouf as well which has been shown as blantant cannon fodder following Heines death while when used by Heine himself they made it seem much more badass.

Please note I do think IJ has promise and I will like it a lot more after seeing it in action but so far its been shown as very plain as Athrun used next to none of its weapons in episode 43. I understand it has tons of beam weapons but until they are really shown in action its very hard to gauge the value of them.

as for PSJ why don't you stop bitching and state your own opinion as you obviously have no idea about mine at the very least. You don't have to be a fanboy to think a certain suit visually looks better then another one. Simply put some gundams look horrible .

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destiny friggin lost its arm and sword and both boomerangs to athurn. u say there was a mark on his hand and we dont know the damage.... the arm fell off watch the episode again or maybe clean ur glasses..... athurn deflected both boomerangs and choped the arm which held the sword causing the arm to explode and the sword to fall off.... thats much better than what kira did. kira got rid of both boomerangs only cuz shin didnt even throw them at him, and he got rid of the sword, thats all. athurn got rid of this AND an additonal arm. read the previous posts in the other fourms about the athurn issue. he was badly hurt himself. the fact that he disarrmed destiny to a greater extent with less weapons and him bleeding like crazy just shows how skilled he is. he doesnt even NEED to use his other stuff. shin was not in emotional trauma when he went into seed mode. and even if he was kira was fighting shin with the same type of trauma. read phase 43 discussion please. there was a huge argument on this alrdy. u are a freedom fanboy. u see those lasers and u just assume. u also failed to answer my faulty log arguments, unqieness about gundam arguments, and how ij can kill multiple suits. im a fucking varsity debator for northview highschool and if u want to answer my stuff answer it completely. u need to note athurns condition he was probably fighting at like 30 percent capacity and he did more than kira with less weapons used. i think kira is clearly outclassed. u said kira coulda killed shin, so could have athurn. athurn specifically hit the arm with the sword to disarm shin not kill him. he could have slashed the cockpit. shin didnt even know he was hit until AFTER his arm exploded and burst into flames. also u say its ahrd to gauge value of the beam weapons? we alrdy know the power of a grapple from the first gundam seed. beamswords are good..... we saw the beam wings from gaia which were effective not to mention if u got extra beamswords its just plain good.
PSJ is right, dont argue with him, thats all he needs to say. ur logic is faulty just read at ur posts. if u disagree, i will go into detail tommrow. and some gundams do look horrible. those are like viking gundam and mermaid gundam. those re retarded. ur the only one on this fourm that things justice looks retarded. sum ppl might say it looks not as good as freedom, but never retarded. i have nothing against freedom. i have something against ppl that argue when they are obviously wrong. especially when u base looks above everything, since that was ur first statement...

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Originally posted by: Deblas
SF can pivot his dragoon system also you know. But like Legend, it can't detach.

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show me evidence of this because i haven't seen this happen, and this is on a gravity area we're talking about, not space

I think SF can shoot with his dragoon system cause it doesnt need to detach to shoot...but I dunt think its physically possible to move them to the front like legend because the arms are in the way so its probably useless to use them if u can only shoot the sides

Don't dis the machines just cause the pilots suck. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

Athrun was having a bad day and still managed to cut off an arm from Destiny. Even if Shin's machine was sevearly weakened, that counts as something to me since it was probably too teedious for Athrun to use his machine at it's fullest. Reminder that after the fight, he's bleeding all over even though his suit's un-dammaged? You try and fight with opened wounds and tell me how you fair. ^_^;

Oh! Forgot to mention the fact that it was also Athrun's first run in that machine. All I've seen it do so far was use the weapons he was accustomed to from Justice. Gee... I wonder why? Might have to do with the fact he jumped in the machine and took off before anyone could explain it to him. Barely even got authorisation to take off too! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

In my opinion, a fight involving mechas is pretty much 50/50. 50% being the machine's performance and the other 50% being the pilot.
Kira's the first pilot since Amuro that fully developed his skills, but unfortunatelly, because he goes to all the trouble in the world not to kill anyone ( haven't seen him do one fatal blow other then on Destroy) this pretty much reduces his all out eficiency considerably... Gota admire his resolve though.

As for your argument on Gouf, again it falls short as the yellow one's demise is due entirely to pilot error.

He let himself completely open while trying to get at Freedom, completely forgetting about Gaya (Which was pretty much being pwned by the Gouf alone), which he was just engaged with, leaving her an opening that was just too good to miss out on.

Sorry, but Goufs rock. We've seen plenty of what Zakus can do and Goufs are improved models. They've done plenty to prove that. Also, if your thinking of throwing in the argument about how Athrun got beat using the gouf, remember that even though it's good, it's no match for not just one, but (count-em) TWO latest generation gundams. Not to mention that it wasn't in the most advantageous position to fight them to begin with. You know, with the back showing since it was in a retreat and all... I find it fought admirably well even though it was taken down. Lasted longer then I expected.

To finish off my mega counter argument post, I can't remember in which topic it was said, but I remember reading about how Astrays suck just because they weren't shown doing anything significant. Well, when you've got the choice of showing off the exploits of a unit that can transform in the coolest way possible and those achieved by simple land based units while having only a few seconds per episode to do so... Which would you show? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

I'm pretty sure that in a real war they would acomplish plenty, even if they aren't as powerful as most other units.

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Originally posted by: drunkenmaster

destiny friggin lost its arm and sword and both boomerangs to athurn. u say there was a mark on his hand and we dont know the damage.... the arm fell off watch the episode again or maybe clean ur glasses..... athurn deflected both boomerangs and choped the arm which held the sword causing the arm to explode and the sword to fall off.... thats much better than what kira did. kira got rid of both boomerangs only cuz shin didnt even throw them at him, and he got rid of the sword, thats all. athurn got rid of this AND an additonal arm. read the previous posts in the other fourms about the athurn issue. he was badly hurt himself. the fact that he disarrmed destiny to a greater extent with less weapons and him bleeding like crazy just shows how skilled he is. he doesnt even NEED to use his other stuff. shin was not in emotional trauma when he went into seed mode. and even if he was kira was fighting shin with the same type of trauma. read phase 43 discussion please. there was a huge argument on this alrdy. u are a freedom fanboy. u see those lasers and u just assume. u also failed to answer my faulty log arguments, unqieness about gundam arguments, and how ij can kill multiple suits. im a fucking varsity debator for northview highschool and if u want to answer my stuff answer it completely. u need to note athurns condition he was probably fighting at like 30 percent capacity and he did more than kira with less weapons used. i think kira is clearly outclassed. u said kira coulda killed shin, so could have athurn. athurn specifically hit the arm with the sword to disarm shin not kill him. he could have slashed the cockpit. shin didnt even know he was hit until AFTER his arm exploded and burst into flames. also u say its ahrd to gauge value of the beam weapons? we alrdy know the power of a grapple from the first gundam seed. beamswords are good..... we saw the beam wings from gaia which were effective not to mention if u got extra beamswords its just plain good.
PSJ is right, dont argue with him, thats all he needs to say. ur logic is faulty just read at ur posts. if u disagree, i will go into detail tommrow. and some gundams do look horrible. those are like viking gundam and mermaid gundam. those re retarded. ur the only one on this fourm that things justice looks retarded. sum ppl might say it looks not as good as freedom, but never retarded. i have nothing against freedom. i have something against ppl that argue when they are obviously wrong. especially when u base looks above everything, since that was ur first statement...

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Ok I will waste a moment of my time on your post again. Also SEPERATE YOUR THOUGHTS. Your posts are basically nothing more then ranting blobs.

First off in the who did more damage to Destiny department. There is absolutely no arguement from me that Athrun did more PERMINANT damage to Destiny. Also I never stated anything against the fact he indeed removed destiny's arm. Please note as far as emotional state goes however. Kira was nothing more then a enemy to Shinn that is all he ever saw him as and the fact that he returned to the battlefield was more of a annoyance. Also note Shinn specifically states when Kira blasts him with the Railguns that had those been beam sabers Shinn would have been dead at that point.

That aside Athrun was fighting Shinn at 100% that is why his wounds opened and why as soon as Shinn retreated due to having Destiny's arm cut off as well as losing several of his weapons he choose to retreat. Had Shinn continued to fight while Legend had SF occupied Shinn would have had a chance to Kill Athran as he was simply losing to much blood to continue fighting for to much longer.

I don't see either Kira or Justice getting a win over Destiny during this battle Kira had a advantage and Destiny retreated while with Athrun and Shinn it was essentially a draw with both of them unable to continue the battle.

Now onto the Providence VS Legend matter. As far as I can tell the ONLY differnce between the suits is the beam shields on legend. Which is only funny as Legends power source is also inferior to tthat of providence so it having more weapons is fairly odd. That being said Strike Freedom has Dragoons, a double cannon that is made from combining its rifels, beam shield and a chest cannon. That is a major upgrade to a suit that already vastly surpasses all nonnuclear suits in the series. This isn't simply a minor tweak to suit but instead a more or less doubling of the firepower and defensive power of the suit.

Now as for being the only one who thinks that justice looks well boring and out of proportion. I might be the only one who has used those exact words but I do know some others such as Terra have made some comments against Justice itself.

All of that being said I do not have to conform to anyones opinions the fact you are so set with your head up your arse that only your opinion and those who agree with it have any right to be correct about anything is mearly a testament to your ignorance.

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Originally posted by: AtHRunOwNZaLL

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Originally posted by: Deblas
SF can pivot his dragoon system also you know. But like Legend, it can't detach.

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show me evidence of this because i haven't seen this happen, and this is on a gravity area we're talking about, not space

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As far as I know freedom does not have this ability as it certainly has not been demonstraighted. That being said it is possible the dragoons can still fire while attached to the wings there has simply been no reason for Kira to bother doing so as of yet.

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Originally posted by: DDBen


as for PSJ why don't you stop bitching and state your own opinion as you obviously have no idea about mine at the very least. You don't have to be a fanboy to think a certain suit visually looks better then another one. Simply put some gundams look horrible .

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I haven't done a single post of bitching just stating my opinion like you wanted me to.

You know your posts doesn't make any sense. Yuo can be completly destroyed yet keep going with the same flawed points. Just give up your Mile long rants about why you think like you do or maybe try to make it half as long.

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Originally posted by: PSJ
I haven't done a single post of bitching just stating my opinion like you wanted me to.

You know your posts doesn't make any sense. Yuo can be completly destroyed yet keep going with the same flawed points. Just give up your Mile long rants about why you think like you do or maybe try to make it half as long.

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Making a post to do nothing other then call me a Strike Freedom fanboy or anyone a fanboy for that matter is absolutely pointless bitching. Just the same as making this post to state that mine doesn't make any sense because you didn't bother to actually read it.

I know from past experiences that nothing you post makes any sense at all. If you remember we have had a number of discussions before.

Plz don't take anything I say badly... I just get a little taken in whenever I get into a debate about something... ^_^;

But yeah, you can say it's a confrontation... That's what debates are in the end I guess.

But there's just one thing I'll ask you to stop doing. Talking like this:

"All of that being said I do not have to conform to anyones opinions the fact you are so set with your head up your arse that only your opinion and those who agree with it have any right to be correct about anything is mearly a testament to your ignorance."

There are several contradictions in that sentence that pretty much say that you should stop talking as well. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
You entered a debate. Meaning that you couldn't expect to get into this without a confrontation. You say that we're fools for persisting, but if that's true, you aren't any better since you persist by continuing to post here and the best part, saying that we are ignorant because we can't agree with other people's opinions is pretty rediculous since you are no diferent.

Plz, anyone reading this, avoid that type of sentence in the future, I can't help but feel sad for the people who are so desperate to try and be right as to put the blame on the others.

Keep debates clean or I'll fall on you like a tone of bricks. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

Back to the Providence/Legend issue.
I forgot that it's power source would be inferior, but there are more significant changes to it then one may think at first. At first, I sevearly disliked Providence for blatant desing flaws that could be a real pain if it were really forced to go in meele combat. For one, it's legs were huge! They still are, but not as much as before I think. It's core was blocky and a bit disproportioned, taking off on it's agility to some extent and most importantly, his shield sucked. It was small and although it's beam saber was conected to it, I don't see that as an advantage for various reasons. If anything, having your only sword fixated to your shield is nothing but trouble in my oppinion as it takes away the possibility to parry and counter attack for one. I could go on simply about the shield, but that would be long and tedious, specially since I've got a friend beside me at the moment and is being bored like hell... I'll write more later if you don't mind. ^_^;

To throw in on this argument: I almost never agree with DDBen. And this argument is no exception. Your last couple posts were almost impossible to read DDBen and that truly weakens your argument into a mere rambling.

SF is a very powerful suit. Destiny is a very powerful suit. The new Justice is a very powerful suit.

All three pilots have their perks and negatives, with the only exception being Kira's edge as "the Ultimate Coordinator". Sometimes Shinn's anger helps him, but it did not against Athrun in episode 43. Sometimes Kira's unwillingness to kill hurts him, like when Freedom was taken down. Sometimes Athrun's indecision hurts him or puts him in a bad position. I believe its more about the pilots than the MS, and for all of Seed Kira has been pegged as the epitome, the #1 ace, the best. That's why he'll always win, no other reason than for convienence of the plotline and to maybe make a third series out of Seed. (and to sell more model kits)

But in comparing the Gundams we can't say which is better based on the few bits and pieces of combat we've seen so far. Destiny seems the fastest. SF has that insufferable "ICanShootAMillionGruntSuitsAtTheSameTime!" ability and Justice's abundance of Sabres makes it wicked in melee. Contrary to popular belief, Gundam is NOT about dueling between pilots, but about fighting and winning a war. Different Gundams will be better than others at different times, depending on the situation in battle.

Oh, and to give a general answer to this whole topic. Gundams = Hype YES! SO much hype! Do the Gundams live up to it? Well they certainly look pretty and have some nifty features in Seed & Destiny, but I'll say I don't really like the overpowering nature that they've come to possess. In the original Mobile Suit Gundam the Gundam kicked ass, but it struggled mightilly against four or more grunt enemies. Now we have Gundams that can take down retardedly big Mobile Armors, shoot down over two dozen units in the blink of an eye, have Phase Shift armor that renders bullets and explosives almost useless, and Beam Shields that can deflect OR ABSORB gigantic, dead-on beams. The only thing that still seems to work are sabres and melee weapons.

Am I the only one who has a problem with this?

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Originally posted by: masamuneehs
To throw in on this argument: I almost never agree with DDBen. And this argument is no exception. Your last couple posts were almost impossible to read DDBen and that truly weakens your argument into a mere rambling.

SF is a very powerful suit. Destiny is a very powerful suit. The new Justice is a very powerful suit.

All three pilots have their perks and negatives, with the only exception being Kira's edge as "the Ultimate Coordinator". Sometimes Shinn's anger helps him, but it did not against Athrun in episode 43. Sometimes Kira's unwillingness to kill hurts him, like when Freedom was taken down. Sometimes Athrun's indecision hurts him or puts him in a bad position. I believe its more about the pilots than the MS, and for all of Seed Kira has been pegged as the epitome, the #1 ace, the best. That's why he'll always win, no other reason than for convienence of the plotline and to maybe make a third series out of Seed. (and to sell more model kits)

But in comparing the Gundams we can't say which is better based on the few bits and pieces of combat we've seen so far. Destiny seems the fastest. SF has that insufferable "ICanShootAMillionGruntSuitsAtTheSameTime!" ability and Justice's abundance of Sabres makes it wicked in melee. Contrary to popular belief, Gundam is NOT about dueling between pilots, but about fighting and winning a war. Different Gundams will be better than others at different times, depending on the situation in battle.

Oh, and to give a general answer to this whole topic. Gundams = Hype YES! SO much hype! Do the Gundams live up to it? Well they certainly look pretty and have some nifty features in Seed & Destiny, but I'll say I don't really like the overpowering nature that they've come to possess. In the original Mobile Suit Gundam the Gundam kicked ass, but it struggled mightilly against four or more grunt enemies. Now we have Gundams that can take down retardedly big Mobile Armors, shoot down over two dozen units in the blink of an eye, have Phase Shift armor that renders bullets and explosives almost useless, and Beam Shields that can deflect OR ABSORB gigantic, dead-on beams. The only thing that still seems to work are sabres and melee weapons.

Am I the only one who has a problem with this?

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Yeah, I get what you mean about the overpowering of the machines and all, but I still can't get my head arround the orriginal Gundam. It's just that it's been made in the 50 and the plotline shows it too much. Not too muvh of a fan of their stereotypes. ^_^;

Thing is that I feel that in GSD, they've forgot the most important part of what a Mobile Suit is suposed to be. A humanoid mech suporting various weapons and not the other way arround. The way they are built now, it's to wonder where they managed to fit the mechanics and hydraulics to make them move right while holding better then tank grade armor plating.

My favorite series so far have to be 8th MS team and Gundam X, bringing Seed closely behind and GSD right after for their machines that just ooze of weaponry. ^_^;

Yeah, I guess I'm contradicting myself a little by saying that I still like GSD after saying that I'm not too prone on the idea of overpowered machines like that, but they are still fun to watch. ^_^;