Saiyaman
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Saiyaman
THis is the thread fro the raw
Hmmm, seems like a good episode. Will have to wait for a sub before I make any further comment.
Pretty interesting episode. Rey congratulating Shinn with a smile for destroying Freedom and having that flashback of Raww dying makes me question his motives. I started wondering about Rey because he was always encouraging and defending Shinn and him helping devise a strategy to take down Freedom shows that he isn't above enjoying getting a little revenge.
*Sigh* I've been trying to stay out of the Shinn-bashing because I hate getting into these kinds of arguments but him going out of his way to purposefully antagonize Athrun about killing his friend with that smirk on his face really ticked me off. It shouldn't be that surprising that Athrun wanted to pummel him there and then.
It was kind of interesting to see non-military personnel going after Logos' big wigs. If people are using guerilla type warfare to execute them it means less for Dullindal to worry about later on in the long run. No need to hold trials or hear any testimonies if they're already dead.
I've not seen the episode yet (stuck at work), but I'm surprised Athrun wasn't waiting in the hangar with a 9mm.Quote:
Originally posted by: Anonyguy
Pretty interesting episode. Rey congratulating Shinn with a smile for destroying Freedom and having that flashback of Raww dying makes me question his motives. I started wondering about Rey because he was always encouraging and defending Shinn and him helping devise a strategy to take down Freedom shows that he isn't above enjoying getting a little revenge.
*Sigh* I've been trying to stay out of the Shinn-bashing because I hate getting into these kinds of arguments but him going out of his way to purposefully antagonize Athrun about killing his friend with that smirk on his face really ticked me off. It shouldn't be that surprising that Athrun wanted to pummel him there and then.
It was kind of interesting to see non-military personnel going after Logos' big wigs. If people are using guerilla type warfare to execute them it means less for Dullindal to worry about later on in the long run. No need to hold trials or hear any testimonies if they're already dead.
How long does it usually take before the subbed ver. come out?
The speeed subber cellphone 2 usually has a sub out within 24 hours of the rawQuote:
Originally posted by: Sano
How long does it usually take before the subbed ver. come out?
Wanted to pummel? Athrun fully decked in him the face! It was the best scene of the whole ep. And whats with the chairman making people go happy kiddy. Maybe Rey has something and is contagious. As soon as he let Shinn know that Destiny was his. I'm also glad to see they are developing the Mwu/Neo connection more. They sorta have a conversation with him while Cagalli and Mirallia are looking over Kira. Who had nothing left of Freedom but the torso and head. We also find out why there was no boom. Kira did an emergency cut off of the nuclear reactor. I am curious what exactly AA disconnected that blew up. Shinn's gonna be pissed when he learns AA and possibly Freedom got away.
From the previews for next week it looks like Athrun finally is deserting with Lunamaria helping him escape. Theres even a changing scene thats getting mixed comments.
Didn't it sound like they dissconnected an unstable engine area or something like that?
While not positive without a sub it looked like AA disconnected its side cannon from the back of the ship. Please note this could be blantently wrong.Quote:
Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
Wanted to pummel? Athrun fully decked in him the face! It was the best scene of the whole ep. And whats with the chairman making people go happy kiddy. Maybe Rey has something and is contagious. As soon as he let Shinn know that Destiny was his. I'm also glad to see they are developing the Mwu/Neo connection more. They sorta have a conversation with him while Cagalli and Mirallia are looking over Kira. Who had nothing left of Freedom but the torso and head. We also find out why there was no boom. Kira did an emergency cut off of the nuclear reactor. I am curious what exactly AA disconnected that blew up. Shinn's gonna be pissed when he learns AA and possibly Freedom got away.
From the previews for next week it looks like Athrun finally is deserting with Lunamaria helping him escape. Theres even a changing scene thats getting mixed comments.
As for pretty much everthing else seems that they are finnally ready to move this story along and lay off the back story for a bit.
DID YOU GUYS CATCH THAT PUNCH!!! HELL YEAH!!! THATS WHAT I HAVE BEEN WAITNG FOR!!! GO ASURAN!!!
I am so sick of Rey's smug look. For some reason it really pisses me off. I also hated it when Shinn's face lit up after he saw Destiny. Like a child with a new toy. I am sure of Shinn's level of sanity now. VERY LOW!!! I don't think that you are supposed to smile when you are recieving a weapon of mass destruction. He is probably going to go on a killing spree later in the series. He is the only person that I think in the entire Seed series that smiled when they got a new weapon of mass destruction. I hope that someone finds a way to drop both Shinn and Rey down a couple of levels cause I am hatin their smug smiling faces right now.
That girl that Asuran was helping get undressed was Lunamaria's sister, Meyrin(Don't know how to spell her name.).
Hehe, I know who will put Shinn and Rey down.... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] Kira with Strike Freedom, it is the onlu unit that hasn't been announced now and he is alive... SO bang, down shot they flew to hell...
Oh yeah, the punch on SHinn, I have been waiting for it for so long...
The only part i hated about the episode....
WHY ONLY ONE PUNCH IN THE SHINN'S FACE?????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????
but it sure was good punch as it let Shinn flying. Can't wait till sub as there was lots of dialog that would be intresting to know. I think Dullindal wants to make Athrun into Raww judging by Gundam he is giving him. Next episode looks like KIra/Lacus scene
yeah, I was wondering about that too. I thought Athrun was going to beat Shinn up...Quote:
Originally posted by: Death13a
The only part i hated about the episode....
WHY ONLY ONE PUNCH IN THE SHINN'S FACE?????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????
but it sure was good punch as it let Shinn flying. Can't wait till sub as there was lots of dialog that would be intresting to know. I think Dullindal wants to make Athrun into Raww judging by Gundam he is giving him. Next episode looks like KIra/Lacus scene
Damn right i love the scene where athrun landed a little touch on shin's face. and im wondering since episode 33 i realized that rey start giving his "strange" and suspicious lookin smile, im wondering what does he actually trying to archieve. and about kira ...... YAY he is still alive without any fatal wound, and i hope he will kick shin's ass next time they meet
He probably would've continued fighting but Luna was holding him back and since Asuran isn't an ass he wasn't just going to send a lady flying. I know that one thing is for sure. If Luna wasn't there he probably would've beat the shit out of Rey too.Quote:
Originally posted by: Digitalgirl
yeah, I was wondering about that too. I thought Athrun was going to beat Shinn up...Quote:
Originally posted by: Death13a
The only part i hated about the episode....
WHY ONLY ONE PUNCH IN THE SHINN'S FACE?????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????
but it sure was good punch as it let Shinn flying. Can't wait till sub as there was lots of dialog that would be intresting to know. I think Dullindal wants to make Athrun into Raww judging by Gundam he is giving him. Next episode looks like KIra/Lacus scene
Didn't Dullandil just start a war similar to when the naturals started to kill coordinators when they were first made? Just wondering. Some of the shooting scenes looked similar to those in seed.
ooh I love Asuran oooh hes so manly BAH Asuran can burn in hell Shinn was just doing his duty and Shinn is the main char of GSD so I doubt hel get his ass kicked by kira in the future
What the Chairman did now was an opening entry to start the war, i think more like a invasion of ZAFT forces. And with that in mind he doesnt really need to deploy troops coz he used his propagranda to get the Neturals to go against the EA and hunt for the "Logos" as he puts it. To me personally. Its not different then what Chairman Zara did! he simply just deployed the ZAFT troops to start the battle in Josh-ua while the chairman does it from a stragtigic point of view and uses words of wisdom to manipulate the ppl around him.
I must say though, the chairman may look bad after doing such a thing, But is it better for him to left the ZAFT ppl be annihialted aswell ? After such a bold move im thinking the chairman is evil and was'nt able to find the answer's he is looking for, therefore Rual Cruze words would be the only True words to him and thats gona drive him insain.
By his words i mean the things like " war is never gona end, hate never ends , things like that"
Would sux though if it ends like GS .. plz mind the spelling im an i admit it lol =P
fenix-
Quote:
Originally posted by: fenix000
What the Chairman did now was an opening entry to start the war, i think more like a invasion of ZAFT forces. And with that in mind he doesnt really need to deploy troops coz he used his propagranda to get the Neturals to go against the EA and hunt for the "Logos" as he puts it. To me personally. Its not different then what Chairman Zara did! he simply just deployed the ZAFT troops to start the battle in Josh-ua while the chairman does it from a stragtigic point of view and uses words of wisdom to manipulate the ppl around him.
I must say though, the chairman may look bad after doing such a thing, But is it better for him to left the ZAFT ppl be annihialted aswell ? After such a bold move im thinking the chairman is evil and was'nt able to find the answer's he is looking for, therefore Rual Cruze words would be the only True words to him and thats gona drive him insain.
By his words i mean the things like " war is never gona end, hate never ends , things like that"
Would sux though if it ends like GS .. plz mind the spelling im an i admit it lol =P
fenix-
It seems the Dullindal wanted peace in the earlier episodes. Judging him by his earlier self-pondering, it seemed he was sincere in trying to prevent or end a war. However, as Talia said, "People Change" (as she said to Athuran right before the attack on the AA). But perhaps Dullindal could have a secret motive of doing something evil as many ppl predict, because of the Lacus assasination attempt (hasn't been confirmed if it is his doing, or some 3rd party's), and Athuran leaving Zaft.
Oh, by the way, (as I was told subbed ver. comes out 24 hours after raw ver, ) is the subbed ver. out yet? And if so, where can I obtain the torrent for this? Thanks.
Quote:
Originally posted by: JerV
ooh I love Asuran oooh hes so manly BAH Asuran can burn in hell Shinn was just doing his duty and Shinn is the main char of GSD so I doubt hel get his ass kicked by kira in the future
Kira is also a main character there are two main characters...in the series just as there were two last series..
.I am waiting for cellphone too sub it!....I CANT WAIT!
and I can't wait until kira gets strike freedom
I wouldn't say that there's only two main characters. I considered Shinn, Asuran and Kira to be main characters.
hey does anyone have the cellphone link yet
Not out yet anyway.
w00tness! *clicks*
Geez, i keep on refreshing in NaNasHI torrent page for around 1 hr and im wondering why doesnt the Subbed out and i return to this forum and i was surprised that its already out, i dont even know that cellphone^2 have their own website now. lol i cant wait to see what kira and Neo said, and also i wanna see what did the chairman said
Amazing episode. We get to se Kira alive and all he thinks about is Freedom hehe. Neo had some more "Mwu" moments which was cool, but if he is Mwu can they establish that now already? It's getting annoying with all the fucking hints but not a clear answer. I mean "who is Mwu La Fraga to you?" only that is annoying beyond anything.
As for Rey's and Shinn's speech i find it very hypocritical. Both of them went against the orders and kidnapped Stellar so that Shinn could be happy and now they try to tell Asuran that he got nothing to do in an army? Okey as it is now he is better off at the Archangel but those 2 aren't the ones that should say it. Rey is so fucking annoying that little fucktard hides something i'm sure of it. Look at his face when he isn't called out together with Shinn. Fuck those 2 hypocritical bitchboys. At least Asuran got his standards down, Shinn and Rey just change it when it needs to for their own interests.
A nice comeback for Yzak and Diakka tho. "Are those heads of yours just for decoration?" oh my god that line hit the spot and then it was followed by a typical Yzak "Shut up!". Only Yzak can do that. Diakka did his usual calming down Yzak every second of his time, hehe that gotta be a fulltime 24/7 job. Maybe stick an extra chair in Yzak's suit and have Diakka sit there and say calming comments to Yzak through the whole battle? That would be fun.
Djibril spoke of Dulinandal like he knew him and Dulinandal did the same about Djibril. I kind of think that Dulinandal is a part of something bigger than the Logos and Djibril is a part of this to. I don't trust Dulinandal for a second. The guy doesn't need to whip out 2 new super suits. Impulse managed to take down the strongest suit on the battlefield, what are Legend and Destiny for? And Shinn got a little to happy to get a new suit in my opinion. He was like a 5 year old on Christmas Eve.
Still a great ep and i want more right now. GIVE ME MORE DESTINY NOOOOWWW!!!
aww when Atrhun punched Shinn, that was the best scene of the day. Great ep!
And I don't think atrhun will take the either of the gundams, and just leave the ship... but that's in the next ep, "atrhuns escape"
rey is becoming wierder, just like how his relationship with shin go.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img] and rey even looked like he was jealous that shin and rey got called by the chairman. i mean his becoming more like raw. well atleast athrun will go back to his normal self, but im quite dissapointed because it tooked almost past the half of the series before he comes back to his senses, more like gS series. I still want to see athrun kicks shin's ass though [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] is that really mei li in the preview? or luna?
Yes it is Meyrin, check the hair and besides she have had a thing for Asuran since he joined the Minerva it's just that her sister stepped in and didn't let Meyrin get close.
We all knew that Asuran would get to his sense sooner or later, that's not really a suprise. He will say something like "I refuse!" and then walk out. At least i hope so, stick it to the man. Give Dulinandal the finger or something.
I agree with that,..but I wanted ahturan to wake up before I consider him on as well...
Personally, I'm hoping he just up and tells Dullindal to take his shiny new WMD and go F*** himself with it.
I mean seriously, how is he controlling himself? For all he knows, Kira is dead, along with everyone else on the AA. They are the closest thing he has to family.
I guess this just goes to show how much more mature Athrun is than Shinn.
Shinn was quite arrogant there to walk up to Athrun and tell him: 'I got my revenge and yours too'. I think Shinn's mentioning of the revenge for Athrun was an attempt to get more leverage on his reason for defeating Freedom but it did'nt work [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]. He was probably too giddy over his success he had to tell more people about it, including Athrun, Shinn should have clearly known Athrun's stand on the whole issue. On another note, Neo kind of sobered up when he heard Ramius reply to his Mwu La Fllaga question. Makes you wonder what he's thinking there...
I don't really believe for a moment Dullindal would have ruled out the possibilty of people taking the laws into their own hands by hunting down Logos themselves after that 'moving' speech of his. Him saying he was'nt expecting the reaction of the people to be like that was utter BS.
3 cheers for Athrun growing some balls again! And the way Kira survived wasn't as cheesy that I thought it would be, and Neo's talk with Ramius was pretty interesting. Now we just wait to see what Athrun will go/do, and how they will get their new gundams ><
and also she have shinn's face on monitor for the whole battle, so she knows he's insane.Quote:
Originally posted by: PSJ
and besides she have had a thing for Asuran since he joined the Minerva
edit: also, it seems that talia is going to betray ZAFT and Charman. that's bad, I want to see Minerva x Archangel [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
I loved that sucker punch scene hehehehehe
Also it looks like Yzak is pissed. I do hope they defect with the eternal
There was some character development in Ep 35. Neo is more somber and serious now (compared to Ep 34). I don't think he has any memories yet of him being Mwu, but asks Ramius about this "Mwu" because Kira in Ep 34 called him "Mwu-San." Also, seeing Ramius cry in the last episode perhaps got him curious on what he once was. As for Athuran, this is the turning point for him. As others have stated above, he has awaken to his senses, and have reached a new revelation to leave Zaft. Athuran deserting Zaft is reminscent of him leaving Zaft back in Gundam Seed, except he doesn't take the Legend this time (while he took Justice back in Gundam Seed). Does anyone know when the Infinite Justice will debut?
Heh, I thought it was funny when Shinn thought he was doing Athrun a favor for destroying Freedom, because Freedom killed Rau.
Is Athrun gonna be escaping in a Gouf now though? Because I heard about Infinite Justice as well, so he can't be the pilot of Legend.
Rey is obviously gonna be the last bad mobile suit pilot in the series. He probaly hated Freedom for killing Rau.
W00t loved the episode...seems like the episode spoilers are right on target.
I loved the punch..I wish he did more, Like beat the living hell ouy of Shinn. Shinn did't seem so bad in the middle of the ep. I understoond his happiness in the beginning. Hell anyone would be happy if they just destroyed the best MS out there...even if it was because of certainn circumstances.
At the end, I dunno I would be happy to get a new mobile suit, but shinn seemed like God had just granted him his greatets wish.
If Shinn stays loyal to Dullindal to the end, Shinn will turn out to be the bad guy in this series...but who knows shinn may redeem himself somehow, which i doubt. but who knows
I CAN"T WAIT TO SEE HOW ASURAN ESCAPES!!!...and I wanan see strike freedom and infinite justice.!
Some how, I keep thinking Shinn will "wake-up" too and change later in the series. As with most major characters, he will mature sooner or later, thus him returning as (possibly) the hero. As for Dullindal, he's an enigma. We know he has some shady motive going on for his actions, but it's almost impossible to confirm what's he planning.
GREAT EPISODE AND EXCELLENT PUNCH BY ASURAN (HE'S THE MAN) moving on it looks as if duillandal was really destroying the archangel only because of kira mainly, to him this is a game of chess he's the black king then kira and lacus are the white king and queen. and about legend i think the chairman only used legend as a way to discover is asuran will remain loyal to zaft after recent events. and as for shinn joining the archangel its not gonna happen the way you people want it to happen it'll most likely be something simalliar to yzak situation at the end of seed trust me on that one
shinn isn't going to change.
shinn is more of the anakan skywalker of this series
First, I have to agree with the others, it was great seeing Athrun finally make a deceicive action. It was a great punch. Though to be honost, if this had been the first episode I had seen I might have liked Shinn. He didn't do anything that bad this time if you don't already know what has happened before. Of course this is an example of too little too late.
While it would nice to see Athrun tell Dullindal off, that would not be the practical approach. Even when he was wavering on his motivation, he has always thinking of the best way to act (with the lone exception being after Nicol's death). Personally what I would like to see is Athrun jump into Legend and take out Shinn and Dullindal right there then wipe out Gibralter.
Someone mentioned Dullindal playing this out like a chess match, I would say it is more of a chess/checkers hybrid. I say that because in Chess once the king is done the game is over, thus the Queen would be meaningless.
I'm curious what that one EAF soldier meant by the civilians being deceived. Obviously it could just be his opinion being a good soldier, but with Dullindal I don't think it is a comment that should be overlooked.
I also found it interesting that when they were showing the EAF's atrocities that they included a shot of GENESIS taking out the EAF Moon Base. Wouldn't that be counter-productive? Plus also the shots of Junius 7 being moved on purpose which was done by Coordinators and used by the EAF to stir up anger against ZAFT.
I wonder why they haven't transferred Neo to the brig yet? Remember where they put Dearkka. Unless of course the brig was taken out to install the hot spring.
A couple of things from the preview for 36:
I hope they don't spend too much time on flashbacks. They showed a few older scenes, and if it is just those fine, but much more would be a pain and would take away from the new stuff.
Where would Athrun go after he escapes? I don't believe that a GOUF would have enough power to fly all the way to Orb from Gibralter, and even if it did he doesn't have any friends in Orb right now. For all he knows Archangel was shot down, and even if they weren't it will take them time to get back to Orb. I would guess that the battle in 34 took place near the Arctic Ocean just north of Europe. That would mean to get to Orb they would have to go around either North America or Asia then head way south to near Australia. I guess he could go to South America. They have more or less gone independent and he might be able to get help from Ed the Ripper. I know it isn't likely, but it is a possability.
One would think that Kira being killed would mean alot more to Asuran than Nichole being killed. The brother of the woman you love and at the same time your best friend from when you were a kid and add to that the dude dating your former fiancée. Kira is alot to Asuran and probably the closest he now got to family so Asuran not going crazy is probably only because he learned from past mistakes, mainly Nichole's death.
Asuran will obviously not tell Dulinandal off, he won't get the special treatment Shinn gets. He plans his next move carefully you can see that in the way he acts. It would be cool to see him sucker punch Dulinandal to tho and then tell him off while kicking Shinn in the nuts. Ah, sorry about my imagination getting out of hand.
I also think Dulinandal plans everything from that Chessboard he got, of course he isn't doing it like a real chess game but something similar. I found it very interesting when he called Lacus the "White Queen".
As for those shots off the GENESIS and the colony drop im also curious why they were in there, i mean its common sense to know that a military uses propaganda. Why put in stuff like the colony drop in it then?
Neo is probably kept up in a bed nice and warm cause he looks and talks like Mwu. Any other prisoner they would have put in a cell, or maybe just not pick up.
As for the Archangel heading to Orb why don't they go to the Kingdom of Scandinavia if they helped them before, surely we(Yes i live in Scandinavia, HAIL!) wouldn't have lacking technology. OK, maybe not up there with ORB and ZAFT but we would probably be able to fix up the Archangel a bit so the trip would become easier. My guess is that they goes straight for Orb tho. That would be the best choice if they can travel under water the whole way. Besides if things pops up send out Kira in Strike Rouge, he is the Ultimate coordinator surely he recovers quick.
Especially after seeing this episode, I think this possibility is remote beyond belief. Shinn has shown no moral or ethical developement to this point: In fact, it appears to me he is regressing.Quote:
Originally posted by: Sano
Some how, I keep thinking Shinn will "wake-up" too and change later in the series. As with most major characters, he will mature sooner or later, thus him returning as (possibly) the hero. As for Dullindal, he's an enigma. We know he has some shady motive going on for his actions, but it's almost impossible to confirm what's he planning.
At this point, Shinn is completely loyal to ZAFT, without even the slightest sign of questioning his superiors motives. He's confused by Athrun's feelings about the AA: Its obvious he went into that battle because he wanted a shot at Freedom, and the fact taht his orders told him the same thing were most likely secondary.
Personally, I like a deranged Shinn as the villain in the series. And if you dont think he's deranged, take another look at his eyes when he hears that Destiny is his...
yep shinn's loyalty to zaft was shown during his conversatition with rey and lunamaria. he is completely 100% behind the chairman which is why him joining the aa is less likely after this episode ( Shinn- lovers keep hoping he will join so kira doesnt beat the shit out of him) so at this point its whatever
This ep proved just how great Shinn is, I got my revenge and yours to. Pure cockyness at its best.
Quote:
Originally posted by: MeroTZ
Especially after seeing this episode, I think this possibility is remote beyond belief. Shinn has shown no moral or ethical developement to this point: In fact, it appears to me he is regressing.Quote:
Originally posted by: Sano
Some how, I keep thinking Shinn will "wake-up" too and change later in the series. As with most major characters, he will mature sooner or later, thus him returning as (possibly) the hero. As for Dullindal, he's an enigma. We know he has some shady motive going on for his actions, but it's almost impossible to confirm what's he planning.
At this point, Shinn is completely loyal to ZAFT, without even the slightest sign of questioning his superiors motives. He's confused by Athrun's feelings about the AA: Its obvious he went into that battle because he wanted a shot at Freedom, and the fact taht his orders told him the same thing were most likely secondary.
Personally, I like a deranged Shinn as the villain in the series. And if you dont think he's deranged, take another look at his eyes when he hears that Destiny is his...
Yes, at this point he is arrogant/insane/immature. But remember, he is still the main character of the series. Although is very grossly arrogant and unstable, this could be to his benefit later on. Remember, he's fighting to end the war, because he himself is a victim of war (his slaughtered family). When he does awaken into a mature character, I sense he will be much more responsible than some of the other characters because of what he has gone through. I remember Kira as a cry baby in the beginning of Seed because he cried so often, and was at times immature. However, once Kira matured and had the correct sense of justice, he turned out to be a very responsible character (as we see today in Seed Destiny). Although it's difficult to see Shinn like this right now, it's very possible he will turn out to be a mature character. For a diamond to become a diamond, it must go through many fire, heat, and high pressure. Right now, I see Shinn as going through that transformation. Don't misunderstand me though, I'm not a Shinn supporter, I'm just speculating on how he will turn out, becuase he is the main character after all...
You say "When he does awaken into a mature character", as if its a given it will happen. I still think we might be lucky enough for him to just go totally crazy-nuts, instead of turning into another hero. We have enough heros, what we need is someone well and truly crazy. As in more crazy than Rau.Quote:
Originally posted by: Sano
Yes, at this point he is arrogant/insane/immature. But remember, he is still the main character of the series. Although is very grossly arrogant and unstable, this could be to his benefit later on. Remember, he's fighting to end the war, because he himself is a victim of war (his slaughtered family). When he does awaken into a mature character, I sense he will be much more responsible than some of the other characters because of what he has gone through. I remember Kira as a cry baby in the beginning of Seed because he cried so often, and was at times immature. However, once Kira matured and had the correct sense of justice, he turned out to be a very responsible character (as we see today in Seed Destiny). Although it's difficult to see Shinn like this right now, it's very possible he will turn out to be a mature character. For a diamond to become a diamond, it must go through many fire, heat, and high pressure. Right now, I see Shinn as going through that transformation. Don't misunderstand me though, I'm not a Shinn supporter, I'm just speculating on how he will turn out, becuase he is the main character after all...
Also, as has been said before... Shinn is -a- main character, not the main character. Kira and Athrun are at least as important as Shinn, maybe Athrun a little more than Kira. Shinn makes a better villain than a hero, and they dont really need a crazy change in his character at this point. Better to stick with what they have established and have a cool villain than an inferior hero.
Even tho I would classify my self as a shinn-supporter I do agree that his reaction to the new suit was a little... overzealous.
But then again, I don't think it's completely out of the ordinary. If you are a fighter pilot and you get an F22 wouldn't you be happy? Or would you be horrified like Asuran was? I'd say his reaction was a little over the top as well...
I mean, their sole purpose is to pilot mobile suits... your life, the success of the mission, and the welfare of your friends and country depend on the mobile suit. If you hate war and fighting so much maybe you should just be a civilian.
Good ep. And it was story, not action, too. GSD is really picking up, but GS was best in it's second half as well.
Athrun's confrontation with Shinn was nicely done. I liked how afterwards when Rey was saying how they should fight whoever ZAFT tells them to fight Athrun flashes back to the holding a gun on Lacus, showing that he knows just where blindly following authority can get you. A lesson Shinn has yet to learn. They used the contrast between these two well in this ep, particularly in their meeting with the chaiman.
Speaking of the Chariman, I loved how he was like "Wow, I never thought that showing pics of those guys and naming them enemies of mankind would result in them being ripped apart by angry mobs. such a shame." lol. But what is he trying to do giving Athrun a new Gundam? Buy his loyalty? He should know better than that. Shinn worships the ground he walks on, but Athrun is pissed. Maybe he's planning for Athrun to defect?
And what's Rey up to? He preaches loyalty to ZAFT, and he could just be controlling Shinn for Dulandil, but maybe he's up to something else... And nice cameo by Yzak. "Is that head of yours just a decoration?"
The only reason I can think that is against this is because Cagailli is really worried about how Orb will react from Dullindal's current moves. Remember they had decided to return to Orb before ZAFT attacked them.Quote:
Originally posted by: PSJ
As for the Archangel heading to Orb why don't they go to the Kingdom of Scandinavia if they helped them before, surely we(Yes i live in Scandinavia, HAIL!) wouldn't have lacking technology. OK, maybe not up there with ORB and ZAFT but we would probably be able to fix up the Archangel a bit so the trip would become easier. My guess is that they goes straight for Orb tho. That would be the best choice if they can travel under water the whole way.
EDIT: I know Shinn was the main character at the beginning, but if he still was then why is Strike Freedom the Gundam used with the GSD logo in the opening.
EDIT2: I think Dullindal offering Legend to Athrun may have just been arrogance on his part. Dullindal is used to people just being puppets for him to manipulate. That is why Archangel had to go since they wouldn't bow down to him.
Also someone mentioned somewhere about Yzak and Dearkka helping Waltfeld steal Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice. IIRC the source was questionable, but based on this episode I think it is something to at least consider (if you aren't ready to believe it).
I'm new to the Gundam universe in general, so can anyone tell me why it's "all over" if they go underwater? Is the minevra not underwater capable?
Minverva probably can't go underwater, but that isn't why they were saying it. Beam weapons of any kind do not work under water (the only exception being Gundam Deathsythe in Gundam W). Minvera only has 2 non-beam weapons on board. 1 is their CIWS, more or less machine guns, that wouldn't really effect a battle ship. The other is their Isolade cannon in front of Impulse's catapault. Because it launches shell type projectiles they would be seriously hampered trying to move through the water. Since Minerva is supposed to be a space battleship things like torpedos and depthcharges weren't considered necessary.
Let me add something here for a moment.....Shinn is a main character, yes. However I've noticed that some people seem to think that he is'nt the MAIN charcter, when in fact he is. Yes, yes, i know...All of you Kira/Athrun supporters like to believe otherwise because both characters had such large roles in Seed...However, Shinn is the main character of Destiny. Thoughts like: "Then why is Strike Freedom shown as the logo of Destiny?" are simply foolish. Destiny has just as much time in the opening as SF, so making such a comment is ridiculous. Kira was the main character of Seed, with Athrun as A main character also. However, when you look at Seed Destiny which has many main characters with significant roles...You'll see that Destiny is Shinn's story....and his mobile suit.
Haro^2Tori^2 Torrent Out
@NineTailsKitsu: yesyes, we all know that. Its just a bit weird that SF appears more than Destiny in the OP, on top of the fact that most of us are Shinn-haters.
first and foremost shinn is part of the main cast and the story centers around but the reason why everyone is talking about SF being shown as the logo of destiny is because its possible that the focus of the story is changing since shinn is clearly crossing over to the darkside and the masses always want the good guy to come out on top so ill end this with my famous quote " Know your facts before you post something"Quote:
Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
Let me add something here for a moment.....Shinn is a main character, yes. However I've noticed that some people seem to think that he is'nt the MAIN charcter, when in fact he is. Yes, yes, i know...All of you Kira/Athrun supporters like to believe otherwise because both characters had such large roles in Seed...However, Shinn is the main character of Destiny. Thoughts like: "Then why is Strike Freedom shown as the logo of Destiny?" are simply foolish. Destiny has just as much time in the opening as SF, so making such a comment is ridiculous. Kira was the main character of Seed, with Athrun as A main character also. However, when you look at Seed Destiny which has many main characters with significant roles...You'll see that Destiny is Shinn's story....and his mobile suit.
Gay episode. Yzak laid the smack down. Rey is gay for Shinn. Shinn will accept Rey. In the butt.
shin is and should be the main character, the series is named after his gundam. but for me he should die with his lover rey. hehehe and it was nice to see athruns characters develops "again".
Is infinite justice's head in the last part of the op?
Yzak indeed made a wonderful smack down.
shinns still a pussy, athurans finally starting to gro some testicles, teh new gundams are kool, but i wonder who's getting teh Legend, since athuran has to get Infinite Justice. maybe rey will get it.
and yes, yazks smack down was amazing indeed
I'm not sure that is a good measureing for that. Gundam SEED Destiny just sounds better then Gundam SEED Strike-Freedom or Gundam SEED Infinite Justice.Quote:
Originally posted by: oyabin
shin is and should be the main character, the series is named after his gundam. but for me he should die with his lover rey. hehehe and it was nice to see athruns characters develops "again".
Is infinite justice's head in the last part of the op?
And yes that was IJ's head.
Well, seems like Asuran is sinking deeper and deeper into the quagmire of useless angst ( at least Shinn's angst is directed towards the enemy ). A shame I actually liked the guy once, seeing how he's now reduced into a total retard. Smacking Shinn for actually defeating the enemy ( the enemy who earlier shredded Saviour ) pretty much shows Asurans character. Right now, the only redemption I see for Asuran is death as I consider him pretty much the most pathetic character ever to pilot a GUNDAM and a total waste of good skills.
Ahem, as for the rest of the episode, it was pretty good. It was nice to see the effect the Chairmans words had on the people, and seeing Lord Djibril fear for his life as Logos members were dragged out on the streets and shot one by one. I'm also very curious to see how Lunamaria will react to Asuran's lowly betrayal.
Personally I consider it more of him finally coming to his senses. Sure Kira took out Saviour, but Athrun is man enough to realize it was just a small disagreement compared to the importance of their friendship. He showed amazing restraint since he thinks that his best friend and his fiance were both just killed along with several other friends.
I think that a while back we talked about being a soldier and following orders and disobeying orders. To me it seemed that Talia regreted even fighting the AA and was not at all to happy when she thought it blew up also. Athrun's brain is finally working now so this is very good.
As to what he is gonna do with a gouf and Meyrin... he'll probably use his Faith membership to take a gouf and escape while everyone else thinks that he is doing it for faith or something. As to where Athrun is gonna go... probably orb but thats another ep so let me get back on topic.
I wonder what is up with Rey and all of the touching all of the sudden. It is really creeping me out. What pisses me off though is that smug look that he has on his face. Like he is superior in his logic. And when he went into his room he had an evil look on his face like everything was going according to plan or something. But what I really want to know is why he flashbacked to Rau Kluze getting killed by Kira. Maybe he is also happy that Shinn got his revenge on Kira for Rau's death too. Makes me wonder.
Nai. You probably didn't look at it from Athrun's point of view. Like Curium said he basically thinks that his family(most everyone on the AA) is dead. A punch is nothing campared to what he could've done to Shinn. If Shinn hadn't walked up to him at that moment and maybe later he probably wouldn't have recieved that punch. Athrun didn't even do or say anything to Shinn as they rode that car to Dullindal. This just shows you his level of maturity. While Shinn did nothing in this ep but show his level of maturity as he gawked at his gundam and smiled everytime Rey touched him.
yea i agree talia didnt seem to want to fight the AA..... maby she likes what they are doing or something who knows anyway cant wait for next ep. nice to see that auran is gunna leave ZAFT and return to ORB/AA?? then who would get legend Rey or Lunamaria?
P.S. GO ASURAN NICE PUNCH ON SHINN ONE OF THE BEST PARTS IN EP (BEST BEING THAT WE SEE THAT KIRA SURVIVED ^^).
If you watched the episode you would know that Asuran was angry and sad because he thought his girl Cagalli and his best friend Kira died and along with them the whole Archangel crew which he knew from the Yakin Due battle. If that doesn't make you angry or sad you're insane.Quote:
Originally posted by: Nai
Well, seems like Asuran is sinking deeper and deeper into the quagmire of useless angst ( at least Shinn's angst is directed towards the enemy ). A shame I actually liked the guy once, seeing how he's now reduced into a total retard. Smacking Shinn for actually defeating the enemy ( the enemy who earlier shredded Saviour ) pretty much shows Asurans character. Right now, the only redemption I see for Asuran is death as I consider him pretty much the most pathetic character ever to pilot a GUNDAM and a total waste of good skills.
Ahem, as for the rest of the episode, it was pretty good. It was nice to see the effect the Chairmans words had on the people, and seeing Lord Djibril fear for his life as Logos members were dragged out on the streets and shot one by one. I'm also very curious to see how Lunamaria will react to Asuran's lowly betrayal.
It's not a matter of "he punched shinn for defeating the enemy". He punched Shinn because Shinn killed Asuran's best friend and at that Shinn knew that Freedom doesn't kill. Sure it was an order to take it down but Shinn doesn't got any ethics at all, fuck he does as he pleases and Dulinandal rewards him with a new gundam.
Asuran is indeed pathetic in an army but when he joins the Archangel and their cause he will be one hell of a force. You can't really blame Asuran for how he acts seeing what he has been through in SEED. Requesting that he follows Dulinandal blindly is like telling a blind man to drive a car, it simply won't happen.
This episode was kind of like the opening to Athrun's brain turning back on. I just hope that when Athrun takes Meyrin with him in the next ep someone isn't stupid enough to kill her. He may just lose it and take out that entire base.
Really can't wait to see the look on Shinn's face when he sees Kira alive. Can't also wait to see the look on his face when he has fight Athrun and gets his ass whooped.
If Shinn gets the Destiny then Rey gets the Legend Right? I guess that means Luna gets the Impulse maybe.
Nai...
Shinn did not defeat the "enemy", he defeated Stellar's so-called killer. Even before AA/Freedom was declared the enemy, Stellar was killed and the grudge against Kira continued (remember Shinn saw freedom before his family got owned), thus contradicting your statement above.
If you didn't clearly see Shinn taunting Athrun, no offense, I feel sorry for you because that is the only reason he got decked in the face and flew 5 feet back, not for "defeating the enemy". We all expected Athrun to woop the shit out of him, but Athrun was clearly holding himself back, that was, until he was provoked by Shinn's arrogant comments.
Athrun is confused, as he was in SEED. Kira/Shinn know what they want. Shinn wanted revenge and ended up owning Kira. Kira wants to stop the endless battles and get orb back to what it used to be. I like the first op of the series, ignited, because one of the first things they show was Kira, Athrun, and Shinn. I thought was somewhat symbolic, Kira representing peace, Shinn representing war, and Athrun in the middle of the two, confused. I can't think of a better analogy.
you know i try not to overdue it when i post and try to avoid post that look down on the character i support asuran but in this case ill make an exceptionQuote:
Originally posted by: Nai
Well, seems like Asuran is sinking deeper and deeper into the quagmire of useless angst ( at least Shinn's angst is directed towards the enemy ). A shame I actually liked the guy once, seeing how he's now reduced into a total retard. Smacking Shinn for actually defeating the enemy ( the enemy who earlier shredded Saviour ) pretty much shows Asurans character. Right now, the only redemption I see for Asuran is death as I consider him pretty much the most pathetic character ever to pilot a GUNDAM and a total waste of good skills.
Ahem, as for the rest of the episode, it was pretty good. It was nice to see the effect the Chairmans words had on the people, and seeing Lord Djibril fear for his life as Logos members were dragged out on the streets and shot one by one. I'm also very curious to see how Lunamaria will react to Asuran's lowly betrayal.
shut the hell up your interpertation of the episode is anything but right how bout you re watch the episode matter of fact the entire series over and stop being a narrow minded dumbass (common trait amongst Shinn-lovers) saying all this and that without actually thinking about it and automatically thinking the insane asshole shinn is always right.
now to close "know your Facts before you Post DUMBASS"
Um, I know you've heard alot by now... but really, are you paying attention? What Athrun knew, and so did apparently Talia and anyone else with half a brain, is that Archangel and Kira were not anyone's enemy. At know point have they actually threatened or been a threat to anyone. At the very most, they have interfered. To make a comparison, this would be like the United States attacking France for continously 'getting in our way' politically (PLEASE, I am not trying to start any political stuff here, jsut trying to make a comparison showing how ridiculous it was for ZAFT to consider the AA their enemy).Quote:
Originally posted by: Nai
Well, seems like Asuran is sinking deeper and deeper into the quagmire of useless angst ( at least Shinn's angst is directed towards the enemy ). A shame I actually liked the guy once, seeing how he's now reduced into a total retard. Smacking Shinn for actually defeating the enemy ( the enemy who earlier shredded Saviour ) pretty much shows Asurans character. Right now, the only redemption I see for Asuran is death as I consider him pretty much the most pathetic character ever to pilot a GUNDAM and a total waste of good skills.
Ahem, as for the rest of the episode, it was pretty good. It was nice to see the effect the Chairmans words had on the people, and seeing Lord Djibril fear for his life as Logos members were dragged out on the streets and shot one by one. I'm also very curious to see how Lunamaria will react to Asuran's lowly betrayal.
Not to mention, Athrun did just see the closest things he has left to family annihilated by the Nation he'd been wanting to trust ever since his mom died. I'd say punching Shinn is handling things much better than Shinn did, what with the sequestering himself in a room with Rey and plotting Kira's death.
Goddamn, I love Nai. He (she?) has the same opinion like me on everything related to Shinn. I don't even need to post it myself! I don't understand why you all are complaining about that post of his/hers. It's pretty much the only post in this topic that isn't just "OMG loolololol good punch & btw Rey/Shinn are gay and will have babies!!11 omg athrun rules despite not doing anything lolool he's pimp weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee". Many of you could learn from it...
To put it simply: well, good for all you Shinn-haters that Athrun punched him. I fail to see the logic in the scene however, other than Athrun's dislike for him. An understandable dislike maybe (seeing as Shinn presumably killed Kira & blew up the Archangel), but still. Shinn followed orders and took down the enemy's greatest pilot. And he gets smacked. Wow, go Athrun! As far as these things goes, I'd say Shinn is a better soldier [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] At least he knows what the hell he is supposed to be doing. Also, what the hell has Athrun even accomplished in this series?
All he does is go around and behave like a fucking soap-bubble, girls coming to him because he no doubt emits special "I'm helpless" waves which gives the females in the show motherly feelings or something to that effect. Athrun flies around, hates Shinn, screams names and gets his fucking machine ripped apart.
Shinn kills enemies, takes down Kira and so on and so forth. Athrun is the one who needs a punch, so that retard can bring himself together and become his older more resolute self. As it stands now he's just a moron.
---As for the episode: YZAK! God, I've missed him. As PSJ said a few pages back, nobody can say "URUSAI!" like this godly creation of a character can. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] He better get more screentime now. I just love everything about him. He's just so impulsive, so pissed off, so brilliant... so "Is that head of yours only for decoration?". HELL YEAH!
Does anyone else think that Rey helped Shinn to get Kira down as a revenge for the latter killing Kruuze? Also, <3 the new mobile suits. Legend looks kinda like Providence #2. With Athrun about to leave, I am guessing Rey will get that one instead.
NOTE: Everything I say about Shinn is said in an entirely objective way, coming from a guy who does not care particularly for either Shinn nor Athrun. So if you are going to criticise this post, which I am sure that at least 3 of you will, then do not blindly assume that I'm a Shinn fanboy; for I am not.
you were the last person we needed to join this argrument Mr. Joule
Quote:
Originally posted by: Dannynonsense
you know i try not to overdue it when i post and try to avoid post that look down on the character i support asuran but in this case ill make an exception
shut the hell up your interpertation of the episode is anything but right how bout you re watch the episode matter of fact the entire series over and stop being a narrow minded dumbass (common trait amongst Shinn-lovers) saying all this and that without actually thinking about it and automatically thinking the insane asshole shinn is always right.
now to close "know your Facts before you Post DUMBASS"
Like this constitutes an argument. ~_~
Everyone else who has responded to Nai has at the very least explained their side in a civil manner- All you seem to like doing is shouting and cursing at Pro-Shinn people to make your E-peen larger.
Nai is correct from Shinn's/ZAFT's mind, while the rest of you are correct from an outside look at the situation. Decking Shinn is understandable considering his loss, but is really rather childish if you look at it from a military view. I am hoping that Athrun, whom is my favorite character since Seed, has finally woken up from his haze and actually does SOMETHING other than being a chick-magnet.
Apparently my post was far too biased and my subjective opinion ( redundant but obviously a necessity ) extremely uninformed and ignorant. Let me try this again:
"OMG LOLOL SHINN AND REY TOTALLY GAY!!! OMFG, ASURAN SUCH A PIMP! HAVE MY BABIES!"
That better?
Okay, now for some easy facts that anyone should be able to folllow:
1. Shinn Asuka is a soldier of ZAFT.
2. Asuran Zala is a soldier of ZAFT.
3. The Archangel and Freedom has been declared enemies of ZAFT due to attacking ZAFT several times over on various battlefields.
4. Shinn Asuka takes down the enemy ace pilot, Kira Yamato. The ace pilot who earlier destroyed Saviour, Asuran Zala's unit.
5. Shinn Asuka gets slapped in the face by his comrade in arms Asuran Zala for doing his duty and for not being owned by Freedom. Asuran Zala's superb defense was "KIRA DIDN'T WANT TO KILL YOU! HE JUST WANTED TO FUCK UP YOUR UNIT! YOU SHOULD HAD LET HIM WIN! BOO-FUCKING-HOO!"
I'm sorry for not seeing Asuran as the great ball-enticing hero in this scenario and I'm really sorry for not considering Rey "a fag who needs to die" and Shinn a complete and utter waste of space. I'm just odd, I guess.
normally i would have started cursing at you Jurojin but you see my point of view which i hoped people would have seen after watching the episode again. the reason for my argrument is nai is only looking at things from a millitary point of view not a personal one. thats like telling some one you shouldnt be mad we killed your family were on the same side. then most shinn lovers talk about how shinn acts so human well in this case it was asuran who was acting human that whole situation wasnt about millitary ethics but asuran personal feelings as rey had mentioned.
as for asuran betrayl would you still side with the people who killed your family. which is why i didnt bother to explain myself in this argument because as far as im concerned what nai posted was just BS. were not talking from a millitary point of view but a personal one. Narrow minded assholes who see things in only one way
finally as an asuran supporter i would like to say asuran is not pathetic just confused at the moment want to believe in the place he once called home wanting to believe in the words of a minipulating man. asuran who lost everthing at the end of GS just wants to believe that plant was the victim. however sometimes we can block out the truth to believe whatever we want but asuran cant do that which is why he is constantly at war with himself, with he's betrayl the death of Faith member Asuran Zara will occur and the resurrection of Asuran Zara of the three ship union.
that last paragraph brought a tear to my eye excuse me
Quote:
Originally posted by: Dannynonsense
normally i would have started cursing at you Jurojin
This honestly should stop- There's no reason to just randomly curse at people you disagree with. It makes you look ignorant and usually people ignore you.
As for being a "Narrow-minded asshole", you're doing exactly that- read your second paragraph again and try to honestly tell me you can't smell the hypocrisy of it. "She's a NMA, but I'm not going to even acknowledge that point of view and just voice my own."
You HAVE to acknowledge both sides of the situation, because that's what half of this conflict is about- Shinn, in his mind, is in the right. Athrun, in his mind, is also in the right. But since they're both so different, that's where conflict occurs- and that's something that's going to drive them in future fights- Shinn's self-righteousness, and Athrun's sense of right and wrong.
Honestly, I would like to see the rest of the series revolve around Shinn vs. Athrun, with Kira and Rey in the background.
I agree that Shinn was following orders, but those orders were HIS OWN. Do not confuse orders from zaft with his revenge for Stellar's death. He was analyzing freedom before Dullindal made that speech and before AA was declared an enemy. As far as the punch, Athrun was probably suprised that Shinn would say that Athrun wanted him to lose, hence the monstrous smack to the face.
Shinn's conversation with Athrun was a mere taunt. Athrun has been telling them over and over again that Kira was not the enemy, and it was obvious that Shinn was about to get smacked in the next minute after saying "he got Athrun's revenge as well."
Shinn-lovers whine that no one understands Shinn blah blah blah, but in this case Shinn did not know what was going through Athrun's head even after Athrun telling him that Kira is not the enemy again and again and again AND AGAIN. Even knowing Athrun's relation with Kira, he chose to be arrogant, and as a result, his face suffered dearly.
wwwhhhhyyy i was just saying because at first it look like you were trying to tear me a n plus i wasnt calling you a narrow minded asshole since i agreed with what you said and i do acknlowledge both sides but come on you cant say asuran was completely wrong for hitting him thats what im trying to say i just want people to take into account asuran's feeling. people i dont randomly curse at others didnt you read what i said after i quoted nai. i fell like shinn right nowQuote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
Quote:
Originally posted by: Dannynonsense
normally i would have started cursing at you Jurojin
This honestly should stop- There's no reason to just randomly curse at people you disagree with. It makes you look ignorant and usually people ignore you.
As for being a "Narrow-minded asshole", you're doing exactly that- read your second paragraph again and try to honestly tell me you can't smell the hypocrisy of it. "She's a NMA, but I'm not going to even acknowledge that point of view and just voice my own."
You HAVE to acknowledge both sides of the situation, because that's what half of this conflict is about- Shinn, in his mind, is in the right. Athrun, in his mind, is also in the right. But since they're both so different, that's where conflict occurs- and that's something that's going to drive them in future fights- Shinn's self-righteousness, and Athrun's sense of right and wrong.
Honestly, I would like to see the rest of the series revolve around Shinn vs. Athrun, with Kira and Rey in the background.
We do not take kindly to cursing and insulting for childish reasons on these forums. STOP IT. User has been warned.
GotWoot Moderator
Actually, it's quite easy to see the Archangel and Freedom as an enemy. At least through military eyes. No one know exactly what they're up to, And on top of that, they interfered quite a few times. Although I did find it stupid that they were labeled so quickly as an enemy after fighting Destroy.
Personally, I think Kira and co are looking at this from the wrong angle. It seems that all they care about is peace. Not fighting for any reason and all. I can understand Kira being suspicious of Dullindal, but really, it was getting VERY annoying with Cagalli going on about Orbs ideals and Kira going on about not fighting. I can see Athrun's point when he told Kira to back off, that interfering in everything wasn't the right way to go. And look where it's gotten them...labeled as enemies by both sides.
Although quite frankly, I too was glad that Athrun decked Shinn. Shinn was a little too arrogant, but then, that's what makes his character fresh. It's hard to see how anyone could NOT be arrogant after beating the Freedom. Especially after watching your entire family get blown to hell because of a careless stray shot.
All in all, it was a good ep all around. I'm curious as to how Kira's gonna get the Strike Freedom...because I think that if it's just handed to him in the next few episodes, that'll be pretty damn cheesy
Actually the punch was completely justified based on Shinn going out of his way to antagonize his superior officer. Reguardless of who Shinn thinks he is if Athran cared to shoot him in the head he has that kind of jurisdiction as a member of faith. Also it seems rather odd to me that he would get in any trouble for leaving the Minerva as he only has stayed there upto this point of his own free will.Quote:
Originally posted by: Nai
5. Shinn Asuka gets slapped in the face by his comrade in arms Asuran Zala for doing his duty and for not being owned by Freedom. Asuran Zala's superb defense was "KIRA DIDN'T WANT TO KILL YOU! HE JUST WANTED TO FUCK UP YOUR UNIT! YOU SHOULD HAD LET HIM WIN! BOO-FUCKING-HOO!"
In the spirit of friendly argument, I'd like to say they are both sucky soldiers. Namely, look at Shinn's history of insubordination and flat out treachery. Hell, if Dulindal didn't have plans for him, he'd have been executed after the whole Stellar thing.Quote:
Originally posted by: Terracosmo
To put it simply: well, good for all you Shinn-haters that Athrun punched him. I fail to see the logic in the scene however, other than Athrun's dislike for him. An understandable dislike maybe (seeing as Shinn presumably killed Kira & blew up the Archangel), but still. Shinn followed orders and took down the enemy's greatest pilot. And he gets smacked. Wow, go Athrun! As far as these things goes, I'd say Shinn is a better soldier [img][/img] At least he knows what the hell he is supposed to be doing. Also, what the hell has Athrun even accomplished in this series?
That said, Shinn is still more loyal to ZAFT at this point than Athrun is. And while he does know what he is supposed to be doing, he generally only does so when he wants to.
I'd say he just got such a punch. Well, metaphorically at least. Seeing his friends/near family die would be like a punch.... TO THE MIND!Quote:
Shinn kills enemies, takes down Kira and so on and so forth. Athrun is the one who needs a punch, so that retard can bring himself together and become his older more resolute self. As it stands now he's just a moron.
It would be nice for him to come back, maybe with an upgraded version of Duel or some such. And his humorous comments are always welcome.Quote:
---As for the episode: YZAK! God, I've missed him. As PSJ said a few pages back, nobody can say "URUSAI!" like this godly creation of a character can. [img][/img] He better get more screentime now. I just love everything about him. He's just so impulsive, so pissed off, so brilliant... so "Is that head of yours only for decoration?". HELL YEAH!
He almost certainly helped go after Freedom for revenge for Krueze, whatwith that flashback and all. Him getting Legend makes lots of sense, it certainly doesn't look like a suit to be thrown away on Athruns escape.Quote:
Does anyone else think that Rey helped Shinn to get Kira down as a revenge for the latter killing Kruuze? Also, <3 the new mobile suits. Legend looks kinda like Providence #2. With Athrun about to leave, I am guessing Rey will get that one instead.
Shinns great, he's just not very likable.Quote:
NOTE: Everything I say about Shinn is said in an entirely objective way, coming from a guy who does not care particularly for either Shinn nor Athrun. So if you are going to criticise this post, which I am sure that at least 3 of you will, then do not blindly assume that I'm a Shinn fanboy; for I am not.
Asuran was basically getting after Shinn for making this personal, when he's letting his personal feelings get in the way of his judgement.Quote:
Originally posted by: Nai
5. Shinn Asuka gets slapped in the face by his comrade in arms Asuran Zala for doing his duty and for not being owned by Freedom. Asuran Zala's superb defense was "KIRA DIDN'T WANT TO KILL YOU! HE JUST WANTED TO FUCK UP YOUR UNIT! YOU SHOULD HAD LET HIM WIN! BOO-FUCKING-HOO!"
Asuran told Kira himself that he should back off...and Kira didn't, so he seemingly got blown the hell up. Yes, Shinn was arrogant, but he was following orders. From a military point of view, he defeated the Freedom, one of the most powerful suits known. Asuran knew what Kira was all about, but Shinn didn't. If Asuran didn't want Kira to die, then maybe he should have, oh I dunno, TOLD EVERYONE WHAT HE KNEW ABOUT KIRA AND WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO DO!
I don't blame Asuran for decking Shinn from a personal standpoint, but it's not like he was in the right for doing it.
Quote:
Originally posted by: MeroTZ
... To make a comparison, this would be like the United States attacking France for continously 'getting in our way' politically (PLEASE, I am not trying to start any political stuff here, jsut trying to make a comparison showing how ridiculous it was for ZAFT to consider the AA their enemy).
Make a valid comparison if you're going to make one at all.
Q: What do you think the United States would do if France went into Iraq and attacked US Forces in the name of "preventing war"?
A: France would be declared an enemy an enemy on the battlefield.
well, I basically feel that that punch Athrun delivered was quite a welcome thing for most Kira fans and Shinn haters. Being a Kira fan myself, I too feel that the punch was justifiable and that Athrun was most likely letting loose some very pent up anger, however, I have to admit that Shinn being extremely skilled has in a way become a fact. It cannot be denied that he is to a certain degree a moblie suit ace, however(again) I must state that he appears deluded in the issue that he would have been able to placate Stellar and that Kira killed her or from his point of view murdered her, without good cause or reason.
Quote:
Originally posted by: Vegita
Quote:
Originally posted by: MeroTZ
... To make a comparison, this would be like the United States attacking France for continously 'getting in our way' politically (PLEASE, I am not trying to start any political stuff here, jsut trying to make a comparison showing how ridiculous it was for ZAFT to consider the AA their enemy).
Make a valid comparison if you're going to make one at all.
Q: What do you think the United States would do if France went into Iraq and attacked US Forces in the name of "preventing war"?
A: France would be declared an enemy an enemy on the battlefield.
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by: DDBen
Actually the punch was completely justified based on Shinn going out of his way to antagonize his superior officer. Reguardless of who Shinn thinks he is if Athran cared to shoot him in the head he has that kind of jurisdiction as a member of faith. Also it seems rather odd to me that he would get in any trouble for leaving the Minerva as he only has stayed there upto this point of his own free will.
Are you kidding me? You know what would happen if Asuran did that? Firing squad! He killed Shinn Asuka right after Shinn destroyed the Freedom. Yeah....ZAFT is REALLY going to smile upon that.
"Mr Zala, can you explain your justification in murdering Shinn Asuka after said pilot defeated the Freedom, a unit that was labeled as an enemy of Zaft"
I'd like to see him get out of that.
The punch was only justifiable from a personal point of view. Like I said, I can understand why he did it, but it's an entirely personal thing.
And really, could you say Shinn was going out of his way to harass his Superior Officer? From Shinn's point of view, Asuran was giving him flak for following his orders. So it could be said that Zala started it.
And for those who say that Shinn did it because of a grudge after Kira killed Stellar, you're condemming Shinn for doing something because of personal reasons, but you praise Asuran for decking Shinn, also for a personal reason.
Bottom line is this Shinn Asuka is not Kira Yamato. IMO, he's better, because he's not the typical whiney crybaby who hates war but is being forced to fight...it was fine with Amuro Ray, but after 26 years of it....I'm tired of it....That's why I liked Kamille Budan in Zeta...he broke the mold....same thing here with Shinn. If people would get past hating him, they'll see that he is actually a complex character...and after spending two years in his shoes, I challenge you to not end up as arroagant and vengeful as he is.
I was not personally saying that Athran would get away with shooting shin in this case. The point is that those in Faith can do whatever they want. They answer only personally to Dullindale so unless he says that in such a case Athran was specifically wrong in his actions he has the abosolute right to do it.Quote:
Originally posted by: Blues
Are you kidding me? You know what would happen if Asuran did that? Firing squad! He killed Shinn Asuka right after Shinn destroyed the Freedom. Yeah....ZAFT is REALLY going to smile upon that.
"Mr Zala, can you explain your justification in murdering Shinn Asuka after said pilot defeated the Freedom, a unit that was labeled as an enemy of Zaft"
I'd like to see him get out of that.
The punch was only justifiable from a personal point of view. Like I said, I can understand why he did it, but it's an entirely personal thing.
And really, could you say Shinn was going out of his way to harass his Superior Officer? From Shinn's point of view, Asuran was giving him flak for following his orders. So it could be said that Zala started it.
And for those who say that Shinn did it because of a grudge after Kira killed Stellar, you're condemming Shinn for doing something because of personal reasons, but you praise Asuran for decking Shinn, also for a personal reason.
Bottom line is this Shinn Asuka is not Kira Yamato. IMO, he's better, because he's not the typical whiney crybaby who hates war but is being forced to fight...it was fine with Amuro Ray, but after 26 years of it....I'm tired of it....That's why I liked Kamille Budan in Zeta...he broke the mold....same thing here with Shinn. If people would get past hating him, they'll see that he is actually a complex character...and after spending two years in his shoes, I challenge you to not end up as arroagant and vengeful as he is.
Athran was pissed at Shinn he went to see him return and when attempting to avoid a altrication with Shinn. Shinn specifically started a fight and saying things he KNEW would bother Athran.
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Originally posted by: DDBen
I was not personally saying that Athran would get away with shooting shin in this case. The point is that those in Faith can do whatever they want. They answer only personally to Dullindale so unless he says that in such a case Athran was specifically wrong in his actions he has the abosolute right to do it.
Athran was pissed at Shinn he went to see him return and when attempting to avoid a altrication with Shinn. Shinn specifically started a fight and saying things he KNEW would bother Athran.
While FAITH can do whatever they want, I don't think that killing a comrade would be something they could get away with. Dullindal didn't want Shinn dead in the first place, so I'm pretty sure he wouldn't excuse it.
Maybe in Shinn's eyes, Asuran would give him hell for following orders.
You are completely missing the point of this statement. I'm not directly stating Athrun should have shot Shinn. I'm stating that being a member of Faith given him that right and as such slugging him is the least of what he could have done had he cared to used his actual position.Quote:
Originally posted by: Blues
While FAITH can do whatever they want, I don't think that killing a comrade would be something they could get away with. Dullindal didn't want Shinn dead in the first place, so I'm pretty sure he wouldn't excuse it.
Maybe in Shinn's eyes, Asuran would give him hell for following orders.
Being a member of Faith only really boils down to Asuran having an opinion in a given military situation, and the freedom to choose what he wishes to do. HOWEVER, It does'nt matter whether ' you want to do it or not' or 'but, but, but, Kira's my friend!' when it comes to orders. The Minerva was ordered to shoot down an enemy, that being the Archangel. Shinn, the ace pilot of the Minerva, was ordered to destroy the enemy: that being Kira. Just because it happened that Shinn wanted to kill Kira anyway is just circumstance, for Shinn it was killing two birds with one stone, a mindset useful in his given situation. For the Athrun lovers/Shinn haters, its as simple as this: Shinn is a soldier, who follows orders and Arthun is a spoiled child who thinks he's above doing what he's supposed to do.
''" Know your facts before you post something"'' heh....that's pretty funny.
Why does Dullindal want the Archangel gone? I thought he praised the Archangel's action from the previous war in the begnning of the series, and wanted the Minerva to "take a role similar to the Archangel's from the last war." I quoted that from Dullindal. Isn't that also that the reason Talia was made a member of FAITH? From watching the series, it seems Talia and Athuran aren't using their powers from being in FAITH very much at all. Even though the order to destroy the AA came from the Council, Talia could have objected/questioned the order as a member of Faith.
Lets put something strait here. Shinn is a child, who has to be treated like a child in order to get him to follow orders. He is insurbordinate, and so far, has not been punished (he got out of being executed). He is driven by anger, and acts without orders or the best interest of ZAFT in mind. He knew very well an extended's body would be valuable to researchers, but he took off in a mobile suit (thats probably court marshiable, but was ignored because he is "Mr. Super Ace") and dumped the body in a lake.Quote:
Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
For the Athrun lovers/Shinn haters, its as simple as this: Shinn is a soldier, who follows orders and Arthun is a spoiled child who thinks he's above doing what he's supposed to do.
Athrun, was a retired soldier who decided that he could no longer sit by when the second war began. He made the decision, at the beginning of the series, that ZAFT was doing the right thing and so he lent his support to them. INSTEAD of putting him in a normal chain of command, and INSTEAD of treating him like a soldier, Dulindal put him in Faith where he would have the autonomy he required. At no point, at all, has Athrun been treated like or considered a soldier by ZAFT administration, and we shouldn't hold him to that standard either.
Athruns biggest mistake was not bailing on ZAFT when he had a badass mobile suit and he saw Kira had a reason to be opposing ZAFT. He shoulda bailed when he saw smoke, instead of waiting for the whole thing to start to burn around him.
This was no coincidence, Dullindale has been grooming Shinn to take down Freedom from day 1. Thats why he has the impulse and why after destroy and getting the report that Dullindale decided to send them after the AA. The reason being he knows Shinn purely runs on emotions and at the time he blamed Kira for the death of Stellar. Shinn is nothing more then one of Dullindales pawns which is why when they showed the chess board the black pawn was in place to take out the white rook which signifies the AA.Quote:
Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
Being a member of Faith only really boils down to Asuran having an opinion in a given military situation, and the freedom to choose what he wishes to do. HOWEVER, It does'nt matter whether ' you want to do it or not' or 'but, but, but, Kira's my friend!' when it comes to orders. The Minerva was ordered to shoot down an enemy, that being the Archangel. Shinn, the ace pilot of the Minerva, was ordered to destroy the enemy: that being Kira. Just because it happened that Shinn wanted to kill Kira anyway is just circumstance, for Shinn it was killing two birds with one stone, a mindset useful in his given situation. For the Athrun lovers/Shinn haters, its as simple as this: Shinn is a soldier, who follows orders and Arthun is a spoiled child who thinks he's above doing what he's supposed to do.
''" Know your facts before you post something"'' heh....that's pretty funny.
I agree with much of your statement except for Stellars body as it was useless to Zaft being they already had pleanty of data from dead and disected extended this was the same reason they wanted to deliver her alive to Gebralter.Quote:
Originally posted by: MeroTZ
Lets put something strait here. Shinn is a child, who has to be treated like a child in order to get him to follow orders. He is insurbordinate, and so far, has not been punished (he got out of being executed). He is driven by anger, and acts without orders or the best interest of ZAFT in mind. He knew very well an extended's body would be valuable to researchers, but he took off in a mobile suit (thats probably court marshiable, but was ignored because he is "Mr. Super Ace") and dumped the body in a lake.
wow, Ben, I love your chess reference. gotta say, we should break down who's who on the chess board. Before your post there, I only figured that Rau was the White King.
oh and Blues is my best friend irl. his opinions/posts are inspired by me. so if you see a lack of me on the topics, you'll know why. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
I get your point. I'm just saying that while FAITH may give Asuran a lot of power, I don't think going around slugging his comrades is one of those powers. Because if he abused his power in that way, you better be damn sure Dullindal would put a stop to it. Especially against someone whom ZAFT seems to think so highly of.Quote:
Originally posted by: DDBen
You are completely missing the point of this statement. I'm not directly stating Athrun should have shot Shinn. I'm stating that being a member of Faith given him that right and as such slugging him is the least of what he could have done had he cared to used his actual position.
Well I can be assure we won't agree on EVERYTHING. But I do feel pretty damn strongly about this particular topic. Especially when it comes to Kira and Shinn and their respective fans.Quote:
Originally posted by: kinggalaxia
wow, Ben, I love your chess reference. gotta say, we should break down who's who on the chess board. Before your post there, I only figured that Rau was the White King.
oh and Blues is my best friend irl. his opinions/posts are inspired by me. so if you see a lack of me on the topics, you'll know why. [img][/img]
So now a discussion about which is the better soldier started, Shinn or Asuran? I'd say they are equally bad soldiers at this point. Asuran acts like an idiot instead of a soldier and shouldn't have rejoined ZAFT in the first place. Shinn is NOT the model soldier all you Shinn likers say he is. Shinn has done some questionable things, one which he would be executed for but since Dulinandal likes him he got off easy.
This shows really how the ZAFT military works. The officer fighting AA until Minerva appeared ignored direct orders and acted on his own accord with the statement "Talia is just a woman anyway". Then we have Hiene who tells Shinn and the rest of the pilots at Minerva that they should all be like one big happy family instead of soldiers. Makes you question ZAFT a bit doesn't it?
On the other hand we have Kira and Cagalli suger coating everything and trying to justify it with "This is Orb's ideals". No wonder they got labeled an enemy when acting like that. Trying to stop soldiers doing their duty to protect their country and saying that they should just desert EAF and leave Orb at extreme danger is questionable as well.
Both sides got negative things about them. Both sides are diffrent and attract diffrent people. Being totally objective is impossible seing as you got an opinion and it will reflect in the way you write. This post will probably not sound totally objective either but im not trying to be totally objective. In the end discussions like these will never end, some think Asuran punching Shinn was justified and some think Shinn's arrogance at the time was justified. Well that's my 2 cents on this, feel free to critize me all you want. i'll try to answer the best i can.
You need to learn to differenciate between people who hate shinn the person and those who hate Shinn the character. I (and I had thought DDBen, I dont wanna put words in his mouth but I thought he did...) think Shinn is a wonderful character... but I think he is an asshole and deserves to die horribly at Kira (or better yet, Athruns') hands.Quote:
Originally posted by: Blues
Bottom line is this Shinn Asuka is not Kira Yamato. IMO, he's better, because he's not the typical whiney crybaby who hates war but is being forced to fight...it was fine with Amuro Ray, but after 26 years of it....I'm tired of it....That's why I liked Kamille Budan in Zeta...he broke the mold....same thing here with Shinn. If people would get past hating him, they'll see that he is actually a complex character...and after spending two years in his shoes, I challenge you to not end up as arroagant and vengeful as he is.
I dont want to be called a "Shinn hater" because I think Shinn is a great character (no greater or less great than Kira) but I hate his personality with a passion. He's the type of person I would hate to be anywhere near in reality. He's a remorseless killer, and I think people like that should be shot after a short trial. But hey, that may just be me.
Also, Blues, Stop double posting. You are going to get in trouble for it.
PSJ: Interesting point about the ZAFT military and how it works.
very well written, PSJ. In fact, me & Blues got this bud who's a Kira lover and it's pretty rough to try to not sound sadist around him, LOL. And honestly, I do tell this guy that Kira is right on some levels; it's just that I do not enjoy how he goes about carrying his business.
You're so right. They both have good & bad in them. I'm very glad that you, as well as others (Terra in particular) are open-minded and analyze both sides to find both light & dark in all the characters. Mucho kudos! ^_^
Now there seems to be alot of controversy over the punch that Athrun gave Shinn. I don't think Athrun was ever gonna hit Shinn. It wasn't until Shinn said something about Athrun wanting Shinn to have been shot down by Kira, that really pissed Athrun off. Athrun doesn't hate Shinn at all from what I see. Throughout the series ,up until Savior got shot down, Athrun has been trying to theach Shinn and help him with his listening/respect problem. Heck, I think Athrun even tried to extend the arms of friendship towards Shinn. He also definatily didn't want Shinn to get shot down by Kira at all. The only thing that I see Athrun disliking Shinn for is the way Shinn goes about handling things. Like DDBen said, for all Athrun cared he could've shot Shinn right betwenn the eyes seeing as he has the authority to do so but, he didn't. All he did was grab him until Shinn started talking about getting shot down. Now I'll agree that Athrun has done about nothing sime Savior was totaled but, this ep just shows you that he has maintained his brains and maturity even over his moping period. Oh, and for those of you who say that Athrun has done nothing this entire series but mope and be a pussy, watch this series again. He did alot up until he lost Savior.
It seems to me that the only army personel on the Minerva with half a brain are Athrun and Talia. They seem to know the line between what orders to obey and what orders to disobey. Talia gave the AA last ep a chance to surrender at least. For those of you who don't know yes that would've been against orders. And Athrun, well he is gonna desert. And yes deserting is really bad.
Now the Rey touching Shinn. It isn't because he is gay. That was just a joke. This is probably so that Shinn will feel more like Rey's friend and so that Shinn feels... I don't know secure or something. This in turn makes it a bit easier for Shinn to be controlled.
As for being soldiers, Shinn and athrun suck as soldiers.
And I am not a Shinn-hater. He is accually pretty cool.(except his attitude)
Edit: Kira and the AA got what they deserved. I was a bit happy when the freedom was destroyed. Athrun even warned them but they just kept going. They even fucked up Athrun in the process. I was even happy and laughing when Shinn shot at Cagalli to shut her up. This is another reason Shinn is cool too.