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I really don't have a problem with Luke being an idiot since the show itself knows he's an idiot. Problem is when a show has an idiot for a main character, and the show thinks the character is cool. Kinda like the main Gundam SEED characters.
Show knows Luke is an idiot, they'll develop him. This is why it's a bit tough in the entertainment business. It's very hard to develop a character outside the usual mold (the cool guy). There's a reason for it, they are usually annoying. In my opinion it's fine. It's not the usual main character we encounter in these kind of series, and as long as the show itself knows how moronic the character is, and develops the story accordingly it should be fine. And for the last couple of episodes, I think they have done a great job with Luke (mainly in how the characters around him are interacting with him).
But whatever, to each his own. We don't have to like them all. But, it's not that I like Luke, in fact I hate him... but I don't think he's a bad main character. Is it really necessary for us to like the main character? Wouldn't it be possible for once to enjoy a show that has a character we're supposed to dislike?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munsu
I really don't have a problem with Luke being an idiot since the show itself knows he's an idiot. Problem is when a show has an idiot for a main character, and the show thinks the character is cool. Kinda like the main Gundam SEED characters.
I can name a few more... Naruto, Index, Goku, etc.
The main story in Tales of the Abyss isn't all the situations that have happened until now... but the reasons behind why Luke is like this. Luke is definitely an idiot... but was it his fault? He was always shielded from the world thanks to the damn Score, and he grew being a dick. Blame overprotective kingdom and the Score. Now we have an event to break him, naming him a Replica.
M;y issue with not finishing the game was not the story... which is excellent... it was because the game suffered from severe loading times it got ridiculous. I think I'll try to finish it before the series ends.
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I agree with what bud is saying.
We're also only 8 episodes into the series, it is way too early to conclude how Luke character will turn out. In most series of these type, what you usually get is a main character with an unresolved past or emotional trauma etc etc. Luke doesn't have any of that, his character development is for him to stop being a complete dick and maybe turn into a main character that people can like.
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I absolutely agree. Character development has been severely lacking in many series as of recent, particularly because they usually start out "cool" or "likeable" already making it risky to change them due to the possibility of irking many fans. A disliked main character on the other hand, has the potential to be more likeable (or even less likeable) with very little to lose, thus allowing for more freedom in character development.
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LOL at Luke in this episode, is all I have to say. He deserves every bit of pain he's going through right now (though, thousands of people dying by his hand isn't really Just for them). And it's about time they "revealed" that Luke was a replica. We didn't see that one coming... nope...
Other than that... this episode was pretty good. As others have stated, it's fine to have a defect character like Luke for now, because he can either redeem himself and become "cool", or... well, he's already at rock bottom now, so he can't really get much worse. But my guess is he'll pull himself up somehow.
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Despite fake-Luke being extremely lame now he's inevitably going to become a cool Action/Shounen Hero by the end of the show (or die). It's mainly Instant Gratification Syndrome which demands that he be snarked every step of the way on his journey since he's surrounded by so many other awesome characters.
I think almost all the other party members in the show are interesting and made more endearing because of whatever flaws or shortcomings they have. None of them fosters the urge to jump through the monitor with a machete like fake-Luke does for me at the moment.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
I absolutely agree. Character development has been severely lacking in many series as of recent, particularly because they usually start out "cool" or "likeable" already making it risky to change them due to the possibility of irking many fans.
A main character needs to be something like Kazuma Yagami or Lelouch before I really think him cool. 99% of shows have something else, and the bulk of those have what you'd call a gray main character lacking enough traits to make him acceptable to most but really liked by none (none with any taste, at least).
However, I don't actually hate Luke being the main character that much. I do dislike the dude but like I've said in a couple of earlier episode threads, I'm actually enjoying the completely out of the line attitude he has and the moronic comments he heedlessly throws around, and even more I'm enjoying when he gets his ass kicked due to his incompetence. That, as such, is pretty novel, like you said.
Following that line of thought, when I said I hoped Asch would kill Luke it's not because I'd absolutely want Luke replaced as the main character but because in how many shounen series the clear main character is suddenly killed for good in episode 8? That would be pretty unique.
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You should consider the intended main audience for the shows you are referring to. Those are probably harem or love-comedy series that usually have a bland and ordinary main character, which I suppose is chosen because the creators believe the viewers (who lack a social life perhaps?) can relate to them.
Other than these shows, the general trend is for there to be a likeable main character, since people watch shows with characters they like, even if just one.
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I know what you guys are waiting for. You guys are waiting for the Sakura-style hair cutting scene.
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shinsen finally came out today.. so I'm back to being one episode behind.
It's good that someone finally told Luke how idiotic he is. too bad that he has gone emo about it and says nobody 'gets' him like van does. so annoyingly pathetic.
I really hate it when everybody in the series knows something really important (but also, somewhat basic), and no one cares to tell us. it's practically established that either Luke or Asch is a clone of the other, so someone should spill the beans and put it out on the open. they don't have many chances for it to be a surprise (to the watchers, and to the characters).
ahh, well, at least Luke was consistent with himself the entire episode, all around jerk, all the time.
next chapter, or the one after that, Guy is probably going to be mind controlled and forced to fight Luke (or Natallia) and nobody will remember to ask Fon why he didn't warn them of this happening (seriously, someone, take away his sword and throw it back to him if there's a battle going on, don't wait for him to go pyshco!)
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A bit off-topic, which Sakura are you referring to?
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Naruto's.
*sigh*
Its sad that whenever people say 'Sakura' nowadays they do so to refer to Haruno Sakura,when there are tons of better Sakura's out there... like the one from Fate/Stay Night... or Sakura Wars... not to mention the CLAMP Goddess of Card Captor Sakura / Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLEs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
Following that line of thought, when I said I hoped Asch would kill Luke it's not because I'd absolutely want Luke replaced as the main character but because in how many shounen series the clear main character is suddenly killed for good in episode 8? That would be pretty unique.
Ya I was thinking like that too when I watched the episode.
I was hoping for Luke to say something like "please kill me, a lowly replica like me isn't even worth breathing the same air " etc.
Or after he was betrayed by Van, I wished for him to suddently disappear and come again at some point later near the end, when Tear, Guy and the others have some huge problems when they fight against Van or his companions... totally trained because he was driven by reveng.... retribution.... vengeance and with a new set of cool looking armor like "Asch" (Luke) has at the moment maybe dying in the end, in tears arms, because he suffered a heavy wound from protecting them... saying something like
"Even if I'm just a mere copy of someone else... I was still able to become a hero in the end... right *coughs blood* Tear?" dying with a satisfied smile in the end
cliché? who cares it would be awesome ^^
but then again, I would feel bad for Tear :(
to Tales of the Abyss in general:
I was starting to lose a bit interest in the show, but I think 08 was really good... it revealed a lot and many things happened (ok I knew most things before anyway because it wasn't difficult to guess but at least the characters know it too now...).
I wonder what will happen if the others know that Luke is just a copy of Asch when they meet him... will they totally lose interest in him? I wonder what Guy will do.. I'm pretty sure that the Princess will run for Asch, but I'm not so sure what Guy will do..
And why did Asch and the others want to open that Sepiroth thingy too? I have problems with making out the sides, it seems there are 3 sides but I don't really know who's with who.
Even though everyone knows how stupid Replica-Luke is they still blamed him.
It's fine, everyone will say that he deserves to be treated like this and I agree partly on that too, but I think ALL of them were stupid... there wasn't even 1 person (maybe except for Tear) to talk some sense into him. Everyone was blaming him even though he tried to help the people.
I think it's not his fault alone, but everyones fault... I don't know why exactly but I think they made him do that too..
It's like I'm telling someone to go to X so he can meet me there and complain to him later that we weren't able to meet because I was at Y
it made me a bit angry and I felt pity for Luke...
maybe it's also because I always feel pity for the "you are just a clone"-characters, it doesn't even matter how stupid he acts
I always wondered how I would feel if I get to know that I'm created artificial, that no one really loves me.... that I'm just the creation of some weird people, that I'm nothing more than a tool for them.
It's a bit like in the movie Truman-show,not completely but I believe it comes pretty close to that. I guess you can say I have a soft spot for guys like "fake"-Luke or Truman
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Tales of the Abyss Episode 09
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Props to whoever called the "Sakura hair-cutting scene". That was actually kind-of emotional.
I still don't expect much out of him though.
So we learn that Jade is the founder of fomicry technology. That was out of the blue... but I'm guessing that's why they call him Jade the Necromancer. Well, it's a long shot... but I guess you can consider replicating someone (that's dead) a form of necromancy. Or maybe there's another reason.
Looking forward to more Tear action soon. Maybe she'll pick up Van's old task of training Luke, instead of letting him try to change on his own.
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I tried to play game at same time as i watch anime... but with my friend(game offers Co-op) we got to like 5+ episodes ahead in 2 days.
Hair-cutting scene was climatic in game too. If you want more info why Jade is called the necromancer, pm me :]
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Well, this was more of a transitional episode so I didn't think much of it... next one seems like it'll have some good action on it. Let's see how a "changed" Luke develops.
Jade being the Father of Fomicry and founder? Doesn't he seem too young to be that? Is there a possibility that Jade is older than he looks, and he simply keeps making replicas of himself or something along those lines? I'm assuming that this Fomicry business is nothing new.
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Either that or he simply rediscovered it. The ethical problems are readily apparent, so even though it has been likely researched before (their talks certainly suggested some past civilizations had been advanced), it might have been deemed inappropriate just like it seems to be now as well, with even Jade himself forbidding it (assuming his stance was genuine).
Asch is a pretty cool no-nonsense guy. I hope we will see some of him still in the future and not only bonehead Luke. Even if he tries to change, he's still a dreck. I was also getting the impression the helpless princess is (re)falling for Asch (the original Luke), and that might leave the dreck Luke for Tear.
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Jade is in his thirties, so he does look younger.
In Yulian Ages there were much more advanced technology(for example Fonic Flight Engines)
