Toaru Majutsu no Index

So Accelerator is able to fine tune his shield against light (UV and hair pigment comment)

He also gets himself a loli, that is as annoying as Index.

He's easy to play with, that scientist easilly had him choose the loli option.

I also think he could enter the faction and he's a nice combo with Touma, provided he can overcome the fact he's been beaten by Touma of course.

The fact he was beaten by Touma, has every dumbasses think they can do the same.
Thing is they think wrong in only seeing Touma as powerless. So they get beaten by their own idiocy.
Problem is that there are lots of them that keep coming, so it's a bit annoying over time.

I'm starting to think he may also have lots of minor bad luck happenings like Touma.
Why? maybe because he reflects good luck as it tries to enter his life...

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Originally Posted by David75

So Accelerator is able to fine tune his shield against light (UV and hair pigment comment)

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I don't think that was a surprise to anyone. The discussion a while back was whether he would be able to create quantity (intensity) limits for light. Now it appears he filters all UV. Also, lack of control is also suggested by the fact when he filtered Index, also chibi MIKOTO got filtered, so it's probable he filtered a whole sound of range at once (some kilohertzes, wherever loli voices reside).

I think he neutralized all sound around himself. If he had only filtered voices, he would have heard Last Order's steps.

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David]So Accelerator is able to fine tune his shield against light (UV and hair pigment comment)

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Now that you mention it, I'm surprised he doesn't have rickets.

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

Now that you mention it, I'm surprised he doesn't have rickets.

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Well, depends on how he blocks UVs, if only the harmfull ones, or everything altogether. But I guess Kraco is right, he blocks everything, or he'll have some pigments.

[Nipponsei]To Aru Majutsu no Index Original Soundtrack 1 - ELECTROMASTER.zip

Nice... shall download later.
The cover with Mikoto owns.

hmmm... I only like that "dungeon keeper"-song from it.. (played when he fought against that alchemist, or when the remaining knights made that holy-barrage on the building) - Song 21

the rest sounds nice here and there but it's somewhat boring if you listen to them without watching the anime

[AoShen] Toaru Majutsu no Index - Episode 20 AVI: Download
[AoShen] Toaru Majutsu no Index - Episode 20 MKV: Dropped

[Eclipse] Toaru Majutsu no Index - Episode 20 AVI: Download
[Eclipse] Toaru Majutsu no Index - Episode 20 MKV: Download

[Eclipse] Toaru Majutsu no Index - 20 (1280x720 h264) [36C870F8].mkv
[Eclipse] Toaru Majutsu no Index - 20 (XviD) [60967604].avi

Man all I can say is Accelerator is a badass! I hope he does not retain any permanent damage though!

It was nice to see Accelerator have some heroic feat in his personality and being able to reverse the flow of data back to its preset pool? That's a pretty neat feature for one of his abilities, though not surprising.

I knew something about that doctor was fishy, but didn't realize he was part of the whole plan. Anyway, nice wrap-up episode of Accelerator.

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Originally Posted by Nadouku

It was nice to see Accelerator have some heroic feat in his personality and being able to reverse the flow of data back to its preset pool?

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From the looks of things, he's not only got a really hax ability, but some uber computation power too (whether this translates to being "smart", who knows).

The way he read the data before then compared to the infected was more like analysing the current electron positions and redirecting them to fit the original pattern he has in mind. The way he looks at code and can calculate wind speed, his own mind doesn't seem to be short of a computer itself - wiring it up to the MISAKA network doesn't seem to be too hard a job.

I'm just wondering what'll happen to them now. Are they going to be idle in tanks providing Accelerator with thought power, or walking around and all while letting Accel share resources?

The doctor was interesting too. The way they call him the "Heaven Canceller", and in his own words "going to the battle field and returning with the patient" sounds like his powers allow him to actually battle with Fate somehow.

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edit: I don't think the doctor was "part of the whole plan", but he seems to be acquainted with the wounded researcher and has some knowledge about their little experiment.

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

The doctor was interesting too. The way they call him the "Heaven Canceller", and in his own words "going to the battle field and returning with the patient" sounds like his powers allow him to actually battle with Fate somehow.

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It does finally explain why Touma comes home from the hospital in perfect health each time he gets really greviously injured. No one else would be able to reattach an arm cut off like that.

As long as he doesn't hurt his right hand I suppose...

I think accelerator will be part of the misaka network that will provide him computation power to enable his powers. In a way, he becomes the queen of the hive.
To survive he needs them and he can somehow protect them?

Other than the outcome, what was happening was a bit too familiar with Touma/Index. But that was fine.

That would be one powerful network. An army of railguns with an invincible "deflect all" hivemind would be something to fear. It's about time too that Accelerator finally reveals his weakness in the form of computing power. It's not something an opponent can usually take advantage of though, unless he's caught in a pinch like this one (though if he gets more screentime, hacking in to cause a Denial of Service attack on him and his network will be a more accessible weak point. Deflect seems to use jack all thinking anyway.

I notice that we've clocked all the way up to episode 20 already with enough room for 1 good arc. I've enjoyed it so far, but due to the scope of the whole science/magic thing, it feels like things have only just kicked off. A second season of Index this show is a must!

A second season is definitely a must. Specially with all the leftover source material. And I read somewhere the DVD/Blu-ray was selling nicely, so maybe we can get it.

I find strange that several series this season are changing their ending song in episode 20, instead of the usual 'half' of the series. But yeah... this series also had a late-op change.

A good opportunity for Accelerator to prove he's capable of more than killing. Though the fact he didn't kill the scientist was a detail revealing he's not really a natural killer anyway, further proving MISAKA was right in her analysis in the previous episode. A costly mistake in any case.

The doctor mentioned he'll supplement Accelerator's lost brain function with the Network, but from the ED he seems to be wearing a chokie/collar. I'm trying to make out whether it's a transmitter (why isn't it implanted then?) to the Network or some piece of fashion accessory. Really, the only plausible idea that comes to mind is a vibration microphone to pick up his voice, perhaps in order to voice-command via radio. Again, the reason why it ain't implanted comes to mind.

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Originally Posted by Kraco

A good opportunity for Accelerator to prove he's capable of more than killing. Though the fact he didn't kill the scientist was a detail revealing he's not really a natural killer anyway, further proving MISAKA was right in her analysis in the previous episode. A costly mistake in any case.

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Indeed. They also went into detail pointing out that Accelerator's been the target of people's curiosity since he was a kid. With randoms showing up in tanks just to see if you can really take a hit must make it really hard to make friends, leading to him only finding pleasure (if he indeed did) by shoving ammunition back in their face. It's been that long since someone's called him by his name that he doesn't even remember it anymore. I do hope if and when he joins this "Touma Fraction" that the writters (author) really does come back to this and give him a name.

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

The doctor mentioned he'll supplement Accelerator's lost brain function with the Network, but from the ED he seems to be wearing a chokie/collar. I'm trying to make out whether it's a transmitter (why isn't it implanted then?) to the Network or some piece of fashion accessory. Really, the only plausible idea that comes to mind is a vibration microphone to pick up his voice, perhaps in order to voice-command via radio. Again, the reason why it ain't implanted comes to mind.



Indeed. They also went into detail pointing out that Accelerator's been the target of people's curiosity since he was a kid. With randoms showing up in tanks just to see if you can really take a hit must make it really hard to make friends, leading to him only finding pleasure (if he indeed did) by shoving ammunition back in their face. It's been that long since someone's called him by his name that he doesn't even remember it anymore. I do hope if and when he joins this "Touma Fraction" that the writters (author) really does come back to this and give him a name.

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Another question is, is he human?

Because the way he talked about humans would have us think he isn't, or can't be considered, or doesn't consider himself a human. I don't know if it's really important, I just noted that.

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

The doctor mentioned he'll supplement Accelerator's lost brain function with the Network, but from the ED he seems to be wearing a chokie/collar. I'm trying to make out whether it's a transmitter (why isn't it implanted then?) to the Network or some piece of fashion accessory. Really, the only plausible idea that comes to mind is a vibration microphone to pick up his voice, perhaps in order to voice-command via radio. Again, the reason why it ain't implanted comes to mind.

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I bet his name is Shotaro Jirou or Yamada Tarou. The stereotypically Japanese boring names, aka John Smith. It fits the two and three kanji he was talking about, assuming that each kanji is one syllable, as well as the "boring" reference he made.

I don't think it really needs to be implanted, because it isn't meant to be a permanent solution. The doctor mentioned that he'd be connected to the network as a form of rehabilitation, like physical therapy for his squishy white matter.

@David:
Accelerator talks down to everyone because he is essentially superior to the rest of the espers, and because he's an arrogant sonofabitch. If they are all human, he must be something better than human. Homo Superior to use some Marvel Comics references. Tons of other characters in other series do this too.

Erm, not always each kanji is one syllable, that is rare case Ryll, for example Yamada is 2 kanji Yama(mountain, other readings incude san, but its not the honorific title) Da(Field, other readings: Ta)
Or Übermench from Nietzsche, instead of Homo Superior.

I only vaguely knew, just making the conjecture. It's got to be something like that though. I just can't get the kanji to fit.

Thanks for the lesson.

[Nipponsei] To Aru Majutsu no Index ED2 Single - Chikaigoto ~Sukoshi Dake Mou Ichido~ [IKU].zip

[AoShen] Toaru Majutsu no Index - Episode 21 AVI: Download
[AoShen] Toaru Majutsu no Index - Episode 21 MKV: Dropped

Reason why AoShen dropped the MKV version is simply this:

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Originally Posted by AoShen

We will not be releasing any MKV versions in the future given that the raw is within reasonable quality. The troll was not done by us. End of discussion.

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[Eclipse] Toaru Majutsu no Index - Episode 21 AVI: Download
[Eclipse] Toaru Majutsu no Index - Episode 21 MKV: Download

[Eclipse] Toaru Majutsu no Index - 21 (1280x720 h264)
[Eclipse] Toaru Majutsu no Index - 21 (XviD)

Nice, laid-back episode with some Himegami screen time, who actually came along pretty informative to Touma. Other than that, this new girl seems to have an eerie feeling that she's being chased by someone else and is hiding out for a while, like what Index was in. Kind of fateful how those two met, but I can't be too sure of that, and I must say that the character designs are getting quite weird, in a good way. ;)

At first I thought that Aisa recognized Hyouka as a vampire, but then I realized that Hyouka would have approached Aisa if she was one, only to then be destroyed by Aisa's innate ability.

I was actually really impressed with Kuroko. Though she couldn't stop Sherry because she doesn't know about the existence of magic before this point (as admitted from her line when she got snagged), the creators were still doing a good job at fully exploiting what a teleporter could really do. Kuroko flipped Sherry over with a thought, and then pinned her, but she could have killed her easily, and they showed that.

A teleporter like her could easily grab someone, transport up 500 ft, separate in mid-air, and teleport back to safe ground, watching as their opponent fell to their death. Kuroko can also apparently send objects without teleporting herself, so she could drop any manner of heavy object on someone.


Touma's capacity for bluffing his way through his memory loss still continues to impress me as well. He handled Aisa with only a short pause, and she was none the wiser.


EDIT: I just realized that it is possible that Kuroko could have simply done a judo style trip or something to Sherry. Given how fast it happened and the lack of leverage Kuroko had, I still think she used her esper to force Sherry to the ground.

hehe I had totally forgotten that Touma had forgotten about Aisa...I for some reason was thinking that he had met her AFTER his memory loss. Nice one there Ryllharu. Oh yeah and great episode. I look forward to the next one.

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Originally Posted by digitalrurouni

hehe I had totally forgotten that Touma had forgotten about Aisa...I for some reason was thinking that he had met her AFTER his memory loss.

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If I recall, Touma's memory loss started around episode 6, whereas he met Himegami at episode 7, so he clearly still remembers her. Don't know how you got that weird assumption, but the only people that he should have forgotten about are everyone he met in school, Stiyl, Kaori, Index, and anything else (most importantly, Mikoto).

That is correct. Touma lost his memories before meeting Himegami. The mission he took with Styl was after the memory loss.

Quite fantastic episode at the second half. Kuroko's scene was quite excellent. I, like Ryll, think she teleported Sherry. My guess is she touched her and teleported her to the floor in that short second. Oh... loved how Kuroko hugged her One-sama, drool.

Oh yeah... I liked how flustered Mikoto was at the beginning with Touma. After all... this episode took place the day after they pretended to be dating. I kinda liked the 'this events are taking at the same time or immediately after' part of the last few episodes.

Komoe's driving made me lol. She rocks.

Oops, I stand corrected on the Aisa memory issue. No idea what gave me the idea that he had. After you reminded me, I clearly remember him bluffing his way through with Stiyl.

She's still somewhat forgettable, she didn't do much of anything even in her own arc.

I felt really lost in this episode, there was a lot of technical stuff they made it sound like I should remember from a previous arc, but I don't think we had seen any of it before.

The arc transition is so awkward. The new magician just came out of left field.

[QUOTE=Ryllharu]She's still somewhat forgettable, she didn't do much of anything even in her own arc.
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Funfact. Her novel is the least liked and the one that sold less.


Animus:
My speculation is that she came alongisde the magician that was stalking Mikoto. The transition may fell awkward after the Accelerator arc we saw... yet that one took place the night before.

The arcs have pretty much all felt somewhat loose so far, with the exception of Mikoto's arc, since we kind of knew her already. In the end this series hasn't really presented a solid bigger plot, so what can you do? It's truly like a collection of novels.

While I have already joined the pro-Mikoto faction myself, it's still somewhat appropriate Index got a little bit of screen time again. The series is named after her, after all. But man, isn't she an empty character compared to our Railgun...

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

She's still somewhat forgettable, she didn't do much of anything even in her own arc.

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I'm still wondering when was it that she moved out of Touma's house. It's like she vanished after the strongest vs weakest arc

The new girl is timid, wears glasses and has big boobs so that alone puts her up there with Mikoto in my book, if she turns out to be just a bit more interesting im making her my favorite.

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

I was actually really impressed with Kuroko. Though she couldn't stop Sherry because she doesn't know about the existence of magic before this point (as admitted from her line when she got snagged), the creators were still doing a good job at fully exploiting what a teleporter could really do. Kuroko flipped Sherry over with a thought, and then pinned her, but she could have killed her easily, and they showed that.

EDIT: I just realized that it is possible that Kuroko could have simply done a judo style trip or something to Sherry. Given how fast it happened and the lack of leverage Kuroko had, I still think she used her esper to force Sherry to the ground.

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Yes she grabbed her and used her ability to teleport her to the ground

What was weird is what she did next:

- She can apparently teleport anything she wants including herself by touvhing it but why did those metal spikes hit the ground with such force?

Isn't her ability limited to changing the location of objects? How did she add momentum to the object the teleported? I think we need a Kuroko so this stuff can be properly explained, i'm sure that Touma is just the guy to turn her straight

My question about Kuroko was why she couldn't escape from the Golem's grip, but I guess that since it's a magical entity it can block some powers.

Regarding the spikes and their acceleration it's possible she uses a great mass accelerator (like the sun, eventhough the range is huge) somewhere for a split second, and then teleports them back centimeters from the target. What do you think?

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Originally Posted by David75

My question about Kuroko was why she couldn't escape from the Golem's grip, but I guess that since it's a magical entity it can block some powers.

Regarding the spikes and their acceleration it's possible she uses a great mass accelerator (like the sun, eventhough the range is huge) somewhere for a split second, and then teleports them back centimeters from the target. What do you think?

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She was about to teleport but then the golem started crushing her with his arm and i assume that the pain didn't allow her to concentrate enough to use her powers.

And i think that's one hell of a stretch :p

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Originally Posted by Archangel

I'm still wondering when was it that she moved out of Touma's house. It's like she vanished after the strongest vs weakest arc

- She can apparently teleport anything she wants including herself by touvhing it but why did those metal spikes hit the ground with such force?

Isn't her ability limited to changing the location of objects? How did she add momentum to the object the teleported? I think we need a Kuroko so this stuff can be properly explained, i'm sure that Touma is just the guy to turn her straight

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Himegami moved in with Loli-Sensei at some point. It was my understanding that when Index and Himegami went over to Komoe's for food (the scene where Index and Komoe had a conversation while Aisa ate all the meat out of the sukiyaki), Aisa moved in shortly thereafter. An off-screen agreement that Touma couldn't possibly support more than one deadbeat.


As for Kuroko, from what we've seen with how Touma blocked her, and previous appearances, we assumed that she needs to touch things to teleport them. But she clearly just waved her hand over the spikes here, and didn't even touch the other set or the ones on the back of her bandoliers. Maybe she doesn't need to touch something to teleport it, perhaps just some form of connection to it (hence the touch to things/people she isn't familiar with). Then for the spikes she uses so often, it wouldn't be that far of a stretch for her to send them high to gain some speed, and then back down close to her target for the final precision strike.

If it is based on personal connection rather than touch, it also may explain why she can find her Onee-sama so quickly and in all variety of situations.

Technically she is touching the spikes. They are on her leg.

Hmm...good call, yet another Boy Do I Feel Stupid mark for me today in this thread. I'm on a real bad run lately.

I suppose she wouldn't rub up against anyone but Mikoto, so her hand is the obvious first choice when attempting to teleport someone or something. She did still use her hand to send them though.

Im basing this on mere guesses, no facts.
1) She still needs to wave her hands. But the fact that they are touching on her leg is enough contact
2) Its for show

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

Hmm...good call, yet another Boy Do I Feel Stupid mark for me today in this thread. I'm on a real bad run lately.

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*Points and laughs at* :p

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

Then for the spikes she uses so often, it wouldn't be that far of a stretch for her to send them high to gain some speed, and then back down close to her target for the final precision strike.

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Come on dude, if that was true it would have taken the spikes way too long to gain such speed.

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Originally Posted by Archangel

Come on dude, if that was true it would have taken the spikes way too long to gain such speed.

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What do you want, that she's a derivative of Accelerator?

It doesn't matter, she obviously changes all manner of direction, orientation, or speed of anything she teleports. We'll just stop viewing it in terms of real-world physics and the assumption she only changes location, and back to Esper's broken physics.

Looking at just her fight with Sherry, Kuroko changes quite a few things. Her Teleport Judo Throw switched the orientation of Sherry from vertical to horizontal without Kuroko moving at all. Furthermore, she fell parallel to the ground after Mikoto fired the railgun destroying the arm of the golem. Kuroko teleported back to vertical position, but instead of moving the same direction and speed (her back falling "down"), Kuroko landed with a much lighter landing hop (feet falling "down" at a much lower speed). She also had enough time in the limbo stuff goes through to extend her legs out again (compare 20:03 to 20:06).

The needles were sent sequentially, so she changed their layout from a tight circle around her leg to the precise pattern to pin Sherry. She obviously can control the orientation, vector and corresponding magnitude of anything she sends. Otherwise, when she shifted herself, she would hit a surface as fast as she was moving before.

There.

EDIT:

Either that or she's being deceptive about the extent of her abilities. She's not just a teleporter, she's got psychokinesis too.

From what I saw, it looked like she brushed her hand over the top of them in the lightest way possible, since they teleport at the same time as she moves. As for the ones on the back of her thigh...just animation?

Reason they fell so fast....since it's some advanced scientific city, I speculate they are really heavy and have some form of accelerating function.

If say, they're relatively simple, you could say they provide acceleration only one particular direction. Strapping them on upside down would mean it counter acting against gravity, making them reasonably light, if not almost weightless.

If you teleport them in the reverse orientation, then they add to gravity's acceleration. Add the fact that it can be made of dense material, you can obtain the penetration force depicted in the episode.

Edit after Ryll's previous post: I completely agree that she can change the orientation as well as pattern/location of the different items she teleports simultaneously. You pointed out that she can also change the vector/speed, but from what I can see, in all examples given, she's able to teleport objects from their initial vector to a stationary vector.

1) She teleported herself in front of the mage - stationary
2) She landed her flat on her back - depending on if you view it as a throw, or simply letting her land hard after teleporting her slightly (or not so slightly) off the ground - stationary
3) Teleporting the pins into the air - stationary - This one is particularly interesting since she doesn't teleport them accelerating downwards, but stationary, then accelerating downwards.
4) She teleports from a falling position to a stationary position in the air, then drops down on foot - stationary.

This is all based on the assumption that she can't manipulate objects after teleporting them.

If she does indeed possess telekinetic powers, then I agree it's entirely possible.

As for "teleporting based on familiarity" ....it's an interesting concept I guess, especially if you don't agree that she touched the pins. Because, if that was the case, then she'd potentially have a loaded supply of these pins at home or something - there'd be no reason to carry any.

Also, depending on the requirements for something to be "familiar", if a touch is all that's required, she could have summoned that magician right back to her.

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The episode transition was strange, more so than how things went from Touma to Accelerator. Like Kraco said, they've only built an image of setting of the place without advancing a greater plot as such, which is mainly the reason why I want a second season - what comes after all this introduction material?

Aisa managed to make herself a lot more interesting. While before she was just weird, monotonic etc, she's weird, monotonic AND observative. That's something only Touma seems to have in this show.

Aside from her, the jumpsuit teacher with the Anti Skill pulls my interest in that it sounds really similar to Touma's Imagine Breaker. Surely it's different just to keep Touma's trump card unique, but according to Komoe's comments and how she's summoned for missions, it seems quite powerful in its own right.

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

What do you want, that she's a derivative of Accelerator?

It doesn't matter, she obviously changes all manner of direction, orientation, or speed of anything she teleports. We'll just stop viewing it in terms of real-world physics and the assumption she only changes location, and back to Esper's broken physics.

Looking at just her fight with Sherry, Kuroko changes quite a few things. Her Teleport Judo Throw switched the orientation of Sherry from vertical to horizontal without Kuroko moving at all. Furthermore, she fell parallel to the ground after Mikoto fired the railgun destroying the arm of the golem. Kuroko teleported back to vertical position, but instead of moving the same direction and speed (her back falling "down"), Kuroko landed with a much lighter landing hop (feet falling "down" at a much lower speed). She also had enough time in the limbo stuff goes through to extend her legs out again (compare 20:03 to 20:06).

The needles were sent sequentially, so she changed their layout from a tight circle around her leg to the precise pattern to pin Sherry. She obviously can control the orientation, vector and corresponding magnitude of anything she sends. Otherwise, when she shifted herself, she would hit a surface as fast as she was moving before.

There.

EDIT:

Either that or she's being deceptive about the extent of her abilities. She's not just a teleporter, she's got psychokinesis too.

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Nope, i'm not yet satisfied :p

Anyway, lets just hope we'll get to see more of her so our questions may be answered. After all, her power has many possibilities so watching her fight should be fun.

I personally don't think she can change the speed of the object she teleports. That would be too hax and be even more powerful than Accelerator since she can teleport them before changing the vectors. I can agree with the changes in position and orientation, but speed is another thing.

About the inconsistencies about her powers (like the needles piercing the ground and the like), I think they are exactly that - inconsistencies. Either it simply looks cooler so the animators did it that way, or they simply neglected or couldn't care less about realism (rightfully so since this is sci-fi/fantasy).

I think Shinta has the correct theory there... the animation team did it like this because it seemed cooler. Unless we get a 2nd season and we get a Kuroko arc we will be on the dark on the real potential of this girl.

Oh... my new nick for Index is "mobile magic wiki".

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Originally Posted by Archangel

Nope, i'm not yet satisfied :p

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/gloves off

Let's go back to quantum theory, as we did in the discussion of Touma's power (referencing the assumptions I made after Loli Sensei's discussion about Espers).

Kuroko's powers may indeed be used the same way. She can teleport because she can guarantee the location of any particle or system of particles. The difference is she flips open box of candy after box of candy until the location of the system of particles is known there instead of here. She partially violates the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle with her power. With the needles, she may even take it a step further using that same principle. Kuroko can know with absolute certainty that the needles should now be there instead of attached to her legs. After she sends them to their new location, her power kicks back in, and as Loli Sensei said, she starts subconsciously opening box of candy after box of candy (or box of dead cat after box of dead cat). Since ESP abilities manipulate this luck, eventually Kuroko allows the other half of the Uncertainty Principle to kick back in. She knows the precise position, and the effect of knowing it changes the momentum of the particle.

So, Kuroko can either force a system of particles to be somewhere else, and let them be, or she can begin to open boxes until the momentum becomes unknown enough to move swiftly. The boxes also open in such a way that the momentum will be beneficial to her needs, either forced downward as with the needles, or slower as with herself falling.

Touma kills her power because she can't know where the particles are in the first place.


So it's either that, or shinta is right and it's something boring like wanting it to look cooler.

Completely different from the discussion at hand but the whole vampire thing, don't think they ever went through it in the anime but the necklace that Aisa is wearing works as a kind of counter to her deep blood ability. Basically she doesn't need to worry about killing vampires anymore.

Ohh and I agree with shinta

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Originally Posted by Ryll

She knows the precise position, and the effect of knowing it changes the momentum of the particle.

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I'm having trouble with this part. The picture I get from your post is that she forcefully teleports the pins lower and lower, artificially producing an acceleration as if they're falling faster, is that correct?

If so, the problem it has is that while it definitely seems like a freeze frame of an object falling faster, it won't be falling with any additional force.

When Kuroko displaces the atoms, what I understand teleport to mean is to dematerialise something and rematerialise it elsewhere. Atoms/objects don't keep their momentum, velocity or anything else. They're simply displaced. When you replace it elsewhere, it reappears with zero forces until an external force is applied after the displacement.

Displacing it lower and lower by a larger distance per time interval would "increase the rate of falling" - but only if you look at it from snapshots.

For an object of set mass, initial velocity (zero) and distance to travel faster, you have to increase the acceleration applied to the object.

In your case, it's moving faster and faster, so that's the same as acceleration, is it not? No. Because, though it's getting to a different point faster than if it was falling, it's not being accelerated. She's moving the pins to a different location, but at each sequential location, it's got zero velocity.

Comparing to that, if we took snapshots of the pins falling normally, they'd only differ to Kuroko's (your) method in that they are at a point at a given time with with a certain speed..
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In short: if you teleport objects to a different location, then sequencially teleporting them incrementally faster and faster as if they're traveling, the actual particle gains no speed because you are simply removing and placing an object elsewhere very quickly - you're not moving the object per sae, and doesn't gather speed nor momentum.

Like I said, this is based on my definition that teleportation doesn't transfer momentum. If yours is that you can make an object reappear travelling at X meters per second, then we have a disagreement on the definition of teleportation, or rather, the understanding of Kuroko's power.

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Edit: The more I'm reading this, the more I'm convinced it's just for looks. But a simple explanation like that isn't healthy for a forum now is it? ;)

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Originally Posted by shinta|hikari

About the inconsistencies about her powers (like the needles piercing the ground and the like), I think they are exactly that - inconsistencies. Either it simply looks cooler so the animators did it that way, or they simply neglected or couldn't care less about realism (rightfully so since this is sci-fi/fantasy).

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Well that was, or was gonna be, exactly my point.

But making Ryu's brain melt is so much more fun

If you look at the scene carefully a couple of times, two things are evident: They have no initial velocity and they accelerate as fast or slow as you would any object to accelerate under Earth gravity. The other thing is we aren't actually explicitly shown how high they were teleported. You would think not very high since they seemed to hit very soon after starting to fall, but if you ask yourself in how many shounen anime you have seen a person just stare at the opponent's surprising attack from the beginning till the end instead of trying to avoid it or anything else sensible, you would probably come to the conclusion they could have been 10 meters high as well. If they are made of tungsten alloy or depleted uranium, they would gain sufficient kinetic energy from several meters to produce the kind of impacts we saw.

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Originally Posted by fireheart

Completely different from the discussion at hand but the whole vampire thing, don't think they ever went through it in the anime but the necklace that Aisa is wearing works as a kind of counter to her deep blood ability. Basically she doesn't need to worry about killing vampires anymore.

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I never thought of that before. Well, in episode 10, you are prominently shown the necklace, but I didn't think that it would bear any significance to sealing her Deep Blood powers. Now, with this post, I think twice about it. Perhaps that's why vampires aren't going near her and dying like in the past anymore.

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

In short: if you teleport objects to a different location, then sequencially teleporting them incrementally faster and faster as if they're traveling, the actual particle gains no speed because you are simply removing and placing an object elsewhere very quickly - you're not moving the object per sae, and doesn't gather speed nor momentum.

Like I said, this is based on my definition that teleportation doesn't transfer momentum. If yours is that you can make an object reappear travelling at X meters per second, then we have a disagreement on the definition of teleportation, or rather, the understanding of Kuroko's power.

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I'll just use the shortened part for simplicity's sake if you don't mind too much.

I might as well commit to my theory, so here goes.

The theory I introduced claims that Kuroko's power relies on the use (when it is convenient), and abuse of the Uncertainty Principle.

Heisenberg's Principle uses the basis that it is impossible to both know the location and momentum of a particle. To ascertain the precise location of a sub-atomic particle, you bounce a wave/particle of light or whatever off of what you're trying to measure. In doing that, you know the location, but now you've changed the momentum, minutely as it is. Conversely, you can figure out the momentum, but then you're never sure where it is.

Kuroko uses this to displace objects. She knows exactly how something is moving (or not at all) so she forces its location elsewhere using the basic Esper principles Loli-Sensei explained. She'll keep flipping open figurative boxes of candy until the unknown location of the object or person is where she would rather have it be.

Conversely, when she moves the needles, she performs a follow up with her ability. She knows exactly where they are going to be (precise enough to pierce Sherry's clothes but not skin) so she begins flipping open figurative boxes of candy until the momentum of the needles is no longer certain (they were previously known to be stationary attached to her thigh) and when she lets go, they thrust downward.

The key point is Loli-Sensei's explantion. Espers are manipulating quantum theory to their benefit. Kuroko use/abuses the Uncertainty Principle through that.

@Archie:
Nah, now that I've gone overboard into physics, it's more of a college refresher.


EDIT:
To summarize: Using an Esper's ability to manipulate the uncertainty of a situation into a certainty that benefits them, Kuroko is using the uncertainties inherent in all particles due to Heisenberg's Principle to affect the location and momentum of whatever she sends.

Thanks for explaining that Ryll. I (now) agree that it's a valid theory, considering the quantum mechanics behind Kuroko's powers.

You say that as if any of you knew any quantum physics.

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Originally Posted by poopdeville

You say that as if any of you knew any quantum physics.

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If you have a suggestion, feel free to share it.

I don't deny my level of understanding isn't on par with some of the other members we've got. I'm simply saying that if this is true:

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Originally Posted by Ryll

Kuroko is using the uncertainties inherent in all particles due to Heisenberg's Principle

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ie - Kuroko's power is the ability to use this Heisengerg's Principle to her will, then it does open up the possibility that she can control momentum.

Also, I don't necessarily have to agree or believe that's the case neither.

My opinion is that these esp powers are by default narrow but powerful rather than broad. It differentiates them from the magic that is a collection of spells for any purpose. Though I'm not saying this needs to be the case, but I'd initially think so until proven otherwise.

And like I said earlier, if you have a look at the video, those spikes had no initial velocity but started to drop quite lazily under normal gravity. So, Kuroko would need to be able to control their acceleration without even touching them, when they are already out there. I hardly think that's the case. Even Accelerator couldn't do that.

the other possibility is that those spikes are very heavy. While on her, they carry no weight because her power maybe transfers the mass somewhere, but once teleported, they become dangerous tools.

But that's a bit weak. I guess that if she has those spikes, she can do more than just have them use gravity, or that'd lead to a very limited use. I can't see the use of having those spikes if you're not able to throw them at incredible speeds in any direction. So I guess she knows a way using her power, or she'd use something else as weapons.

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Originally Posted by Kraco

My opinion is that these esp powers are by default narrow but powerful rather than broad. It differentiates them from the magic that is a collection of spells for any purpose. Though I'm not saying this needs to be the case, but I'd initially think so until proven otherwise.

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My understanding is while the forces they are dealing with allow them to do very broad things, they are only able to do so much given their brain capacity. This narrows the scope of their abilities. All of their (except for that self-rezzing bastard's) abilities can be explained with minute enough terms, but they can only affect the world in one way.

The frog doctor explained that Accelerator's greatest gift was his computational ability. That's a huge part of the reason why his ability extends as far as it does. Mikoto for example, can use the railgun while the Sisters can't because they are unable to detect the minute differences they'd need to control even with the goggles. Mikoto does it subconsciously.

It's like a highly specialized set of muscles, combined with muscle memory. Esper's probably could extend their abilities out further, but it only works if they can handle the increased load. It would be like learning to curl your tongue into a 'W' shape when you weren't born with the capacity to do it.

Magic, like you said, starts out very broad, but it takes more time and more sigils to do the more complex tasks.

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Originally Posted by David75

the other possibility is that those spikes are very heavy. While on her, they carry no weight because her power maybe transfers the mass somewhere, but once teleported, they become dangerous tools.

But that's a bit weak. I guess that if she has those spikes, she can do more than just have them use gravity, or that'd lead to a very limited use. I can't see the use of having those spikes if you're not able to throw them at incredible speeds in any direction. So I guess she knows a way using her power, or she'd use something else as weapons.

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Originally Posted by Bill

Reason they fell so fast....since it's some advanced scientific city, I speculate they are really heavy and have some form of accelerating function.

If say, they're relatively simple, you could say they provide acceleration only one particular direction. Strapping them on upside down would mean it counter acting against gravity, making them reasonably light, if not almost weightless.

If you teleport them in the reverse orientation, then they add to gravity's acceleration. Add the fact that it can be made of dense material, you can obtain the penetration force depicted in the episode.

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That was one of my initial (and still standing) thoughts too. :)

[AoShen] Toaru Majutsu no Index - Episode 22 AVI: Download
[AoShen] Toaru Majutsu no Index - Episode 22 MKV: Download

Looks like AoShen changed their "no HD" policy to "whenever we feel like it". Apparently, it was just a troll because of fans that kept pestering them about it, even though they said it wasn't a troll, so it's almost a similiar approach to Dattebayo.

[Eclipse] Toaru Majutsu no Index - Episode 22 AVI: Download
[Eclipse] Toaru Majutsu no Index - Episode 22 MKV: Download

There's really no point in starting this thread with the AoShen version Nadouku, especially since they decided to drop the MKV format.

Just do as the rest of us and wait until Marik posts the links.

There's no problem with updating the first post with Eclipse, and there are some people that watch the AoShen version, as horrible as they are, even though they never comment on the episode after watching it, which I don't mind.

I guess so

Even I watched one of them when eclipse took like 2 weeks to translate it

Does Index have a regular release date by Eclipse or is it always sort of random?

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Originally Posted by Archangel

I guess so

Even I watched one of them when eclipse took like 2 weeks to translate it

Does Index have a regular release date by Eclipse or is it always sort of random?

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That link will help you find your answer:
http://eclipse.no-sekai.de/projects/index

It is released usually near 10 p.m. (+1GMT) on Sunday.

Eclipse's releases are quite stunning I have always thought. Even after grabbing 720p bluray versions of the 1st 3 episodes from Thoranime, the visual quality was not that diffferent!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Archangel

There's really no point in starting this thread with the AoShen version Nadouku, especially since they decided to drop the MKV format.

Just do as the rest of us and wait until Marik posts the links.

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While I'm in total agreement with Archie, I've decided that it's best we didn't discriminate between fansubs, regardless of quality.

Fansubs and raws? Definitely, since the forum is mostly populated by non-Japanese speaking people. Even if they watched the raws, they (we) wouldn't be able to participate in discussions.

Good or bad fansubs, on the other hand, are entirely up to us. We can be comfortable with speedsubs, or be patient for better quality releases. Once a fansub is released though, discussions can start right away, and I don't think we should limit people to when they're allowed to do it based on our preferred release.

That said, Eclipse banzai!! (Index usually comes out in 24~28hrs for me)

[Eclipse] Toaru Majutsu no Index - 22 (1280x720 h264) [14526419].mkv
[Eclipse] Toaru Majutsu no Index - 22 (XviD) [14CA1087].avi

Interesting episode.
I knew something was off with Kazakiri... I kinda thought she was either a Vampire, for Himegami to be on guard, or a majutsu being hunted by Sherry. Yet I never expected her to be just... that... a being formed from leftover esper energy.

The scene at the videogames annoyed me. It was clearly not Touma's fault he saw them like that. They themselves teared off the curtain. Magic Wikipedia does it again...

Oh yeah. I did love when Mikoto finally got to know the Magic Wikipedia. Their reactions were priceless. Yes... the world is coming to an end... I enjoyed a Magic Wikipedia scene.

I know Mikoto isn't in Judgement... but I don't understand why Kuroko took her away. She first hand knows the power of a Level 5 Esper.

This show needs a 2nd Season...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RyougaZell

Interesting episode.
I knew something was off with Kazakiri... I kinda thought she was either a Vampire, for Himegami to be on guard, or a majutsu being hunted by Sherry. Yet I never expected her to be just... that... a being formed from leftover esper energy.

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I am no fan of characters like Hyouka. I'm very tired of the "sudden traumatic realization they're not human (or human anymore)" characters. I thought I had enough of them from Shakugan no Shana and the various clones of that series. Moreover, the ultra-timid personality to go along with that annoys me to no end. If you're going to be something like whatever she is, it would be so much more enjoyable if she was only pretending to not know what she is. I much prefer an evil flash in the eyes when they're found out before going back to faking innocence.

Total letdown on the whole Hyouka mystery.

This arc is seriously lacking Kanzaki and Stiyl.

Interesting dialouge between Index and Mikoto, and a priceless reaction as well. Kazakiri's true form was kind of strange, since she is composed of all the elements that make up a human, but not truly a human. I can agree that as long as something possesses human-like emotions, then they can be considered human. Good episode.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

I am no fan of characters like Hyouka. I'm very tired of the "sudden traumatic realization they're not human (or human anymore)" characters. I thought I had enough of them from Shakugan no Shana and the various clones of that series. Moreover, the ultra-timid personality to go along with that annoys me to no end. If you're going to be something like whatever she is, it would be so much more enjoyable if she was only pretending to not know what she is. I much prefer an evil flash in the eyes when they're found out before going back to faking innocence.

Total letdown on the whole Hyouka mystery.

This arc is seriously lacking Kanzaki and Stiyl.

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That I agree
If she was pretending to be human it would have been better. Yet she is an airhead... thus... boring. I mean... to sympatize on what she is we would have needed more than ONE episode. Shes probably one of those characters that will end up being forgettable once her arc is over.

I do hope that isn't the case with Misha... I would like to see her again...

Season 2 please...

Touma AKA Imagine Breaker Dam that's a cool nickname >_>

I enjoyed the interactions between Misaka and Index, made Touma look like a real playa

Wish they hadn't taken Mikoto out of the action though, a level 5 esper would be quite useful and it would give Touma the chance to save her a couple more times

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Originally Posted by Archangel

Touma AKA Imagine Breaker Dam that's a cool nickname >_>

I enjoyed the interactions between Misaka and Index, made Touma look like a real playa

Wish they hadn't taken Mikoto out of the action though, a level 5 esper would be quite useful and it would give Touma the chance to save her a couple more times

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For some reason, I do not see Mikoto being very efficient against an earth mage and against a golem.

After all electricity dissipates well through the earth.
Also, the railgun wouldn't cause permanent damage to the golem. You can even imagine the coin/plasma just going through it creating a small hole the golem will fill in no time.

Now, I wonder what will happen next since that mage seems to know about Touma's power, and I do not image her coming unprepared. Also, that last image may be a setup where for some reason the Imagine Breaker doesn't work, or doesn't work as it should.

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Originally Posted by David75

After all electricity dissipates well through the earth.
Also, the railgun wouldn't cause permanent damage to the golem. You can even imagine the coin/plasma just going through it creating a small hole the golem will fill in no time.

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Haha. The basic amateur mistake to attack the tough, invincible golem and not the soft, easily wounded human controlling it. The railgun might not do permanent damage to the golem, but if it flies through the golem and then through the human behind it, the golem is a goner as well.

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Originally Posted by Kraco

Haha. The basic amateur mistake to attack the tough, invincible golem and not the soft, easily wounded human controlling it. The railgun might not do permanent damage to the golem, but if it flies through the golem and then through the human behind it, the golem is a goner as well.

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I thought about that one, true if the mage is not a strong one.
Hard to tell for that one, because she's been surprised already with the teleportation power. And we've only seen her use her golem. So is she a low level magician, only able to play with her golem, or is she more gifted?
We won't know I guess, since they chose to have Mikoto out after her encounter with Index.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kraco

Haha. The basic amateur mistake to attack the tough, invincible golem and not the soft, easily wounded human controlling it. The railgun might not do permanent damage to the golem, but if it flies through the golem and then through the human behind it, the golem is a goner as well.

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Lol exactly my thoughts as i read David's post

But lets face it, i don't think our sweet innocent little Mikoto would ever be able to harm another human being

/sarcasm

Unless that human is Touma and they are in a bed... wait... what?

Reading doujins till late at night again?

After watching the episode again i have to say that Index managed to be particularly annoying on this one. Where does she get off telling Touma to run away while she takes care of things??

You're a fucking library with no other use than spouting random bits of magical information when you feel like it, just stfu and let the pros handle it.

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Originally Posted by Archangel

Reading doujins till late at night again?

After watching the episode again i have to say that Index managed to be particularly annoying on this one. Where does she get off telling Touma to run away while she takes care of things??

You're a fucking library with no other use than spouting random bits of magical information when you feel like it, just stfu and let the pros handle it.

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lol I gotta agree with this one. Your comment had me laughing...so thanks for that :)

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Originally Posted by Archangel

You're a fucking library with no other use than spouting random bits of magical information when you feel like it, just stfu and let the pros handle it.

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Magic Wikipedia
Lots of info. Unreliable most of the times.

Not that she actually would, but the end of her arc did reveal that there was really nothing ever stopping Index from using magic other than the programs that were imbedded into her.

She probably could do quite a lot, which is why the programs were in place to make her think she couldn't, and the memory wipes to reinforce that belief. The memory wipes also kept her in the dark, so she wouldn't even entertain any thoughts of going against the Churches.

But she's a comedy relief character now, so I doubt we'll ever see her do anything. But she's got the potential.

I'm actually rooting for her to do some huge kick ass magic in the end but I doubt it will happen. For now she can just...walk around and get in the way.

She does know all the theory behind... well everything, but i suspect that it's like when you know every step in how to solve a math exercise and still fail when it shows up in the exam

Moral: Practice makes perfect

Would she be fast or combat capable? Nah.

She's more like an artillery canon. Better yet in the spirit of sci-fi space operas, an orbital canon. Keep her in the back or far away with a halfway decent guard and she could probably cast something like the Knights cast against the alchemist Izzard to destroy his building.

If her programs could lead Loli-sensei through her first high level spell, wiki.mahou.org/index should be able to handle most other spells on her own. It just might take a while.

Even if she's not combat capable, another role that I'd want her to fit besides long-range artillery cannon would be the ultra-analyzer. We've seen some of that already in fact, so they could expand on that by giving her actual combat experience. The epitome of this would be her seeing through every magical component of the enemy, then her and Touma spouting out the way to beat them in tandem, followed by the Imagine Breaker.

If I have to sit with the fact that Esper energy can create some artificial being, sure, why not. But....you know, why does the core have to be a triangular prism? Not that it's a problem. Just....why that? I'd think leaving her hollow would me more appropriate to highlight that she really is just that....nothing.



MIkoto x Index certainly was funny. I particularly loved the "Are you someone who got randomly helped by him and now helplessly having a crush on him too?"

*sigh*

They should add Kuroko to the harem sometime. Her cynical remarks put her apart from the rest of the loli.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nado

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/p...sakaMikoto.jpg

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Damn Nado.........any more where that came from? :D

I've had that image for months...
More images for Buff
http://konachan.com/post/index?tags=misaka_mikoto

Remember... no touching :p


Anyway... I found a site translating the novel. But just the prologue of the 1st novel is out.
http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/in...jutsu_no_Index

Now I feel obliged to share:

Return gift:
http://moe.imouto.org/post?page=1&tags=misaka_mikoto
http://chan.sankakucomplex.com/?comm...=misaka_mikoto

not work safe Definitely not work safe.

Heh, nice websites. It will probably give a lot of people nosebleed in union.

Kazakiri's nickname, "Counter Stop", sounded pretty cool too, but I'll agree that having Index supply magic or information to Touma and his faction would be a nice addition in combat experiences.

My opinion is that it's an anime.

Physics doesn't apply.

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

Now I feel obliged to share:

Return gift:
http://moe.imouto.org/post?page=1&tags=misaka_mikoto
http://chan.sankakucomplex.com/?comm...=misaka_mikoto

not work safe Definitely not work safe.

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Errrr O_o

How about a +18 warning on that second link?

How's the bold font and all not sufficient?

Not work safe just doesn't cut it :p

I'm not sure if that stuff is even allowed to be posted around here

[AoShen] Toaru Majutsu no Index - Episode 23 AVI: Download
[AoShen] Toaru Majutsu no Index - Episode 23 MKV: Download

[Eclipse] Toaru Majutsu no Index - Episode 23 AVI: Download
[Eclipse] Toaru Majutsu no Index - Episode 23 MKV: Download

[Eclipse] Toaru Majutsu no Index - 23 (1280x720 h264) [645D71A5].mkv
[Eclipse] Toaru Majutsu no Index - 23 (XviD) [5047AC4F].avi

I suppose that cleared up quite a few things about Index. She declared that she cannot cast spells (but her automated programs could?) but Countercasting is still a pretty cool trick. She's not totally useless after all. It isn't as absolute as Touma's ability obviously, but it works for the most part. A skill one could only possibly accomplish by knowing absolutely everything about all of magic.

Aside from what I can only guess is due to her regular memory wipes, how is it that Index never used this before against the people chasing her, like Kanzaki or Stiyl? Kanzaki I might understand, since she usually uses swordplay and tricks rather than magic, but Stiyl never should have been an issue for her.

In addition, this episode made me change my opinion of Hyouka as well. I'm quite impressed with her courageous move to become a punching bag to save others. That sickening crunch at the end of the episode is most likely her.

It might be bad if she starts to enjoy it though...

A jolly good episode. I was also positively surprised Index isn't useless. Furthermore, she didn't even hesitate. Quite a hard to predict character. She is weak in many ways but did what she could. You can't really ask more than that. I have a little better opinion of her now.

The golem magician is starting to give me the kind of feeling she has been doping herself with something. She's proceeding maniacally, like driven with a whip, and her basic behavior isn't much different. Some sort of a fanatic. Even ignoring Touma's Accelerator silencing straight right and getting back to drawing as soon as she landed.