Fate/Zero

Bluebeard, the folktale rumored to be inspired by the
[possible spoiler, but easily researched from folklore about Bluebeard]
13th century serial killer Gilles de Rais or other famous murderers from Brittany/Brenton in France.

As wikipedia tells us, de Rais murdered children in a similar way to what we saw here:

[The boy] was pampered and dressed in better clothes than he had ever known. The evening began with a large meal and heavy drinking, particularly hippocras, which acted as a stimulant. The boy was then taken to an upper room to which only Gilles and his immediate circle were admitted. There he was confronted with the true nature of his situation. The shock thus produced on the boy was an initial source of pleasure for Gilles.

[close potential spoilers]

Pretty much exactly what we saw.

He was also (allegedly) big into demon summoning and alchemy, using the kids for components or offerings, so that explain the Cthulu intonations.

That particular individual was hanged and burned, so I'm guessing that is who he is. Calling himself Bluebeard was a huge hint, though the greater mystery is why he knew the name. Rider was reading up on history and cartography to catch up. How did Caster know this already?

edit: David beat me to it.

edit 2: So that really only leaves Berserker and Lancer for the Servant identities we don't know. Quite the change from the 5th Grail War, where everything was kept so secret.

Both Casters are crazy killers of some kind. Did no one care to summon Merlin or something?

Not that I mind. Creepy, obsessed people are good fun as long as you know they're behind a screen and not your back.

One thing that's been revealed in FZ that wasn't apparent in FSN was that one can choose the attribute that you want your servant to be classed in. How that works with the "one servant per class" I have no idea - perhaps first-in, first-serve?

It does hint at why Rin's servant was an Archer class despite his main fighting style being so un-archer-like. The catalyst determines the hero. The incantation add-on (if any) determines the class (if it can be applied to the hero). I just can't remember if Tokiomi specifically requested an Archer class.

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

Both Casters are crazy killers of some kind. Did no one care to summon Merlin or something?

One thing that's been revealed in FZ that wasn't apparent in FSN was that one can choose the attribute that you want your servant to be classed in. How that works with the "one servant per class" I have no idea - perhaps first-in, first-serve?

It does hint at why Rin's servant was an Archer class despite his main fighting style being so un-archer-like. The catalyst determines the hero. The incantation add-on (if any) determines the class (if it can be applied to the hero). I just can't remember if Tokiomi specifically requested an Archer class.

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Caster of the 5th War is a tragic figure. She wasn't a particularly crazy killer, she was just very very devoted to the point of becoming a killer. That pretty much explains what happened to her in the end.

I thought it was more of a revelation that you can pick which hero you get. I took Zouken's words to mean only that you could actively choose to take Berserker alone so long as you were the first to get it.

If I remember right, 4th War Archer was classified as Archer because the way he uses his noble phantasm doesn't fit with any other class. He could really come in as any of the classes that aren't Caster. Why waste one of the other slots?

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Originally Posted by David75

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluebeard
Might help understanding.
I guess Caster did tell that name as it was the nearest example of his appearance on earth, or the being nearer to his state of mind

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Kind of disappointing how i never heard of him, though i guess that's what you can expect from a shitty summoner like Killy Mckill or whatever his name is.

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

One thing that's been revealed in FZ that wasn't apparent in FSN was that one can choose the attribute that you want your servant to be classed in. How that works with the "one servant per class" I have no idea - perhaps first-in, first-serve?

It does hint at why Rin's servant was an Archer class despite his main fighting style being so un-archer-like. The catalyst determines the hero. The incantation add-on (if any) determines the class (if it can be applied to the hero). I just can't remember if Tokiomi specifically requested an Archer class.

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You can't, not for certain anyway. What you can do is make an educated guess since you'll be aiming to summon particular characters and should already know what roles they would fit the better, but it's quite possible they could fit some other role as well. Emiya and Hercules could have easily had been a saber, just how Gilgamesh could have probably rolled any other knight class as well.

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

That particular individual was hanged and burned, so I'm guessing that is who he is. Calling himself Bluebeard was a huge hint, though the greater mystery is why he knew the name. Rider was reading up on history and cartography to catch up. How did Caster know this already?

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I'm not 100% sure on this and don't have the old FSN episodes anymore but I think Saber said that the grail kinda filled them up with information about the current era. As for why Rider was reading up well I guess he rather get information from several sources since I doubt the grail gives them every little detail about everything in the world since they died.

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Originally Posted by ark

Emiya and Hercules could have easily had been a saber, just how Gilgamesh could have probably rolled any other knight class as well.

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Well yeah, that part was integral to what I was saying (how you can choose). There's no point in choosing if your hero can only be one particular class. As you and others have pointed out, there's really nothing backing that up though besides some coincidences that can more readily be explained by hero artefacts rather than incantation tweaks.

Well, BlueBeard really is from French Folklore, no wonder it's not particularly known anywhere else. It's not that famous either. I'm quite surprised he is named in anime.
But maybe there's more fame to it that I know of, after all wikipedia shows many variations from famous European writers theater plays, films... so it might be Fate authors had access to such material.

Regarding Caster and his master, I guess we're all waiting for the time when Caster kills his master. It's pretty obvious that master is a funny prey to play with for Caster. I wonder if the kid is smart enough to understand that and will use a command spell to protect himself from that end... But even then, I feel Caster smart enough to find roundabout ways to kill him or have him killed in horrible ways.

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Originally Posted by David75

Well, BlueBeard really is from French Folklore, no wonder it's not particularly known anywhere else. It's not that famous either. I'm quite surprised he is named in anime.
But maybe there's more fame to it that I know of, after all wikipedia shows many variations from famous European writers theater plays, films... so it might be Fate authors had access to such material.

Regarding Caster and his master, I guess we're all waiting for the time when Caster kills his master. It's pretty obvious that master is a funny prey to play with for Caster. I wonder if the kid is smart enough to understand that and will use a command spell to protect himself from that end... But even then, I feel Caster smart enough to find roundabout ways to kill him or have him killed in horrible ways.

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I dunno man.. there's so many kids out there to kill, but so few who would understand a serial killer. The ED suggests that Bluebeard wasn't the most socially indifferent type. But I can see where you're coming from. This could be the biggest set-up for despair that he could plan.

Only issue here is that all these heroes are in the war to win. It's not so often that you'll come across such an accommodating master for the likes of Bluebeard.

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Originally Posted by David75

Well, BlueBeard really is from French Folklore, no wonder it's not particularly known anywhere else. It's not that famous either. I'm quite surprised he is named in anime.
But maybe there's more fame to it that I know of, after all wikipedia shows many variations from famous European writers theater plays, films... so it might be Fate authors had access to such material.

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Anyone who has a good book fairy tales that has not been purified to be politically correct will have Bluebeard in it. At least an English language one. Archie is just woefully unread as usual.

Ahh..

While I was watching that episode, I heard the name Bluebeard, but confused with another character until I wiki-ed "Bluebeard". Then I tried to identify who I confused him with.

Turns out it was Rumpelstiltskin

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

Well yeah, that part was integral to what I was saying (how you can choose). There's no point in choosing if your hero can only be one particular class. As you and others have pointed out, there's really nothing backing that up though besides some coincidences that can more readily be explained by hero artefacts rather than incantation tweaks.

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Sure there is, particular servant classes have their own bonuses such as Archer's ability to reside in the world without a master or Berserker's madness enhancement.

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Originally Posted by David75

Regarding Caster and his master, I guess we're all waiting for the time when Caster kills his master. It's pretty obvious that master is a funny prey to play with for Caster. I wonder if the kid is smart enough to understand that and will use a command spell to protect himself from that end... But even then, I feel Caster smart enough to find roundabout ways to kill him or have him killed in horrible ways.

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Will he though? Seems awfully unpractical, the last one who tried to pull one of those was almost left for dead on the side of the road.

I can totally see him planning to do such a thing just moments before obtaining the grail though, that would maximize the fuck out of his despair.

It's not like Killy Mckill, a complete amateur summoner without any artifacts, would be likely to summon some great figure from history/legends known the world over.

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Originally Posted by Kraco

It's not like Killy Mckill, a complete amateur summoner without any artifacts, would be likely to summon some great figure from history/legends known the world over.

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...yeah, that's what i'm sayin. I'm guessing the "artifact" used here was simply blood and murder.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there a couple of servants that couldn't be anything other than that class like Saber(Arturia)?

Taking into account her skills and stats... i think she could have rolled Rider and Berserker as well. That said, if she IS summoned then she'll most likely become Saber.

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Originally Posted by Buff

There's no point in choosing if your hero can only be one particular class.

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Originally Posted by ark

Sure there is, particular servant classes have their own bonuses such as Archer's ability to reside in the world without a master or Berserker's madness enhancement.

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What? I think you read me wrong.

Regarding Kotomine and Assassin's death.
Well, I can perfectly see a plot where Assassin's death serves a role for Tosaka and Kotomine.

Assassin dead, other masters would think he's out of the game, when he in fact will target masters. He's highly train in many arts as Kiritsugu stated, so even without a servant, he can clearly have the upper hand in any situation when a master isn't protected by his servant.

This idea isn't really in line with what we know of archer in the game and FSN anime, mainly because we do not know what will happen with Tosaka. Or it might only work with Tosaka...

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Originally Posted by Archangel

You shouldn't fear Archer? Ha! I guess Kirei didn't like what he got in the raffle lottery and is now looking for a replacement. Still... seems a tad wasteful, and i can't help but wonder how he's explaining this to Tohsaka senior.

I noticed the Gate of Babylon is golden, i guess the grail's curse is what turned it magenta. Makes me wonder if this Archer is more or less powerful than its fsn counterpart.

Bluebeard...? I don't get it, and the ending didn't help either. Just as well though, means i have one more thing to look forward to.

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Kirei said that there is no need to fear him... because he would get obliterated so soon that there would be no time left for fear, i think.

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Originally Posted by Archangel

Taking into account her skills and stats... i think she could have rolled Rider and Berserker as well. That said, if she IS summoned then she'll most likely become Saber.

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Have a faint memory of her saying she couldn't be any other classes so checked the typemoon wiki and according to it

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Originally Posted by Typemoon wiki

Arturia is limited to the class of Saber, unlike many heroes that can be summoned into different classes, such as Hercules, who can be any class except Caster

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I forgot if it was mentioned in FSN if the servants retain their memories? Was wondering if Saber remembers everything that happened in the 4th war and if she was Shirou's father's servant or not.