while i certainly still enjoy the show its starting to take itself way to seriously its like watching Days of our Lives or something lol.
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while i certainly still enjoy the show its starting to take itself way to seriously its like watching Days of our Lives or something lol.
Grace has means of restraining Brera, so we can assume that what Ranka's doing isn't affecting her plan, if not according to plan.
I didn't mind this episode personally.
The ep was okay. It looks like Klan will now just be relegated to the background as before.
All I know is that I'd be super pissed if someone called me at 3am to go fold paper airplanes.
so... Ai is the mastermind of all this?
Just watched episode.
FU- , why Michel :-/
Also, can someone explain what Klan is doing? I thought people of her race could change size by will, but it seems she has to prepare within that container.
Also, LOL at Sheryl. If i was in the room, surrounded by monsters that want to kill me, i´d shout "SHUT THE FUCK UP!".
What I'd like to know is why Ozma and Cathy are just camping in the ruins, roasting sausages and marshmallows in the campfire, while the regicide dude is seizing power unopposed - and even more ironically with the support of the hero Ranka Lee, whose guardian Ozma still should be. Of course it makes sense Ozma wouldn't mix Ranka in power struggles, especially so shady, but there should be some limits...
Do you suggest he go out and shout "the president was killed by leon, it's all a conspiracy"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
Leon probably has people searching for Ozma and Kathy with orders to kill.
Leon definitely has people looking for Cathy and Ozma with intent to kill. What other reason would there be for all those black suits with guns drawn inside Ozma's place?
Seeing the photo of Klan and Michel as children inside his cockpit while Klan hugged his helmet in tears made me sad...
Zentradi are naturally giants, but through a process called Micloning, they can become human sized. Micloning is accomplished through the use of that two tank machine. Their bodies basically dissolve in one tank and then are reconstituted into the other. That's why Michel was so worried about Klan when the tank started to crack. She was in between the two states, and most certainly would have died if it broke open. Aboard the Frontier, Zentradi can change sizes whenever they want, but it must always be accomplished within those tanks. They cannot just will themselves between the two states, it is done through advanced technology.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
Late in SDF-1, it was theorized that the Zentradi and Humans were both part of the same species (hence the interbreeding), but a now deceased faction called the Supervision Army modified the Zentradi into giants to use them as soldiers.
To my knowledge, humans cannot use the tanks despite being "genetically equivalent" to Zentradi.
mmm... now that would be rather interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryllharu
Hentai has explored this possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryllharu
Just thought you'd like to know. :)
For somebody who has dubbed himself "lelouch" you certainly are lacking rational ideas...Quote:
Originally Posted by lelouch
The longer they wait, the more solid Leon's power and more people he can muster to do his ill deeds, and the colder all the evidence against him (plus he can erase any evidence more easily as time goes by). Not to mention every moment gives him more time to silently find Ozma and Cathy as well and terminate them just like he did the president. And if Cathy had wanted to have a dirty revenge, the easiest time for that has also passed now that things have considerably calmed down.
@Kraco
I don't think there is much they can do at the moment. Perhaps they are waiting for a better opportunity.
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/679/topsr7.jpg
1/72 VF-25F Messiah Valkryie released in Japan this week!
That Decepticon owns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyke
:D........I......want.......:(
So V-type infection was really Vajra...
Earrings were also playing a part.
Seems like I pointed in the right direction, self promotion I know :D
So regarding the SMS piracy, I guess that when the ship sinks, rats flee... I would not compare them to rats, but in dire situations it's hard to swallow that some do not consider trying to save the day.
Also, to me the solution to frontier's survival include the Vajra... Both species will have to find a compromise allowing the two to survive.
There's a reason for the Vajra to attack Frontier that much. I do not think this is just a very vehement species that attack everything that moves.
After all, their losses are also very dangerous to their own ecosystem.
Also, they do not even seem to be interrested in the ressources there are abord frontier like water for example...
So for some reason their existence is intricated with the humans from galaxy/frontier.
Both species need each other to survive in the long term. But since they are so different, they tend to destroy each other at the beggining.
Grace may be the flagship of the future deal to accept. She's a bio-robot, she had to accept loosing a great deal of her flesh body to survive or just go on.
To me there's a difficult choice awaiting humanity, were they'll have to find a symbiosis with the Vajra.
It may seem far stretched, however there are examples of strange symbiosis in the biological world.
Even some bacteria are thought to have had a symbiosis with our bodies long ago in the past and are now part of our genes...
gotta be nitpicky here but... mitochondria (which you are referring to) have their own genome apart from ours. Also, they embedded themselves in early single-cell eukaryotes.Quote:
Originally Posted by David75
Some viruses have embedded into our genome though.
about the ep. I actually like it quite a bit. I thought Alto would join the SMS. I hope he stays with Frontier. Makes the story more interesting.
I guess this episode cleared one thing for me. The Vajra do need to escape back to share information on weapons, not just simple survive for a split second to send out fold waves.
I really liked this ep, and Sheryl's music in the battle background just owns. At least now we'll have something else to listen to other than Aimo.
Ozma beating Alto was neat. It's always felt unsatisfied at main characters who seem to fly through ranks with sheer talent. Also is likable, and most likely trains too, but Ozma shows there are somethings that you can't learn from a few fights and some talent.
Agreed that having Alto on Frontier would be much better plot wise, though it's sort of predictable that Klan, Luca and Alto will join them when the time comes for the finale.
Nice!!!
Sheryl + Alto ftw!
I always liked Sheryls singing twice as much as Ranka's, it's so good that it turned out this way
What I didn't like is that they wasted the possibility to show some very dogfights right there...
The fight was a bit lax.. I expected much more there.. Especially since there were so many planes...
Didn't Ozma and Alto end up with a draw?
Ozma got his thruster tail nipped. Alto got immobilised in the intake/shoulder.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
Didn't Luca say they were jamming fold waves within some radius? I remember reading the distance translation and thinking it was far too small.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukimura
Yes something like 100 click radius ;)
I don't think I'd call the SMS folks rats leaving a sinking ship. When your choices are leave or extermination... I think leaving is a smart option. Something along the lines of living to fight another day.
It was good to at least see humankind has the ability to make better weapons and adapt the jamming strategy to keep those weapons useful... for now. At least the explanation for the new weapons is moderately believable unlike Geass where things just seem to advance at a logarithmic pace. It seems like the Grace syndicate doesn't intend to let mophead stay in control for long. I wonder if there plane is to "replace" him or just full out extermination of the Frontier. I remember in the last ep she said she didn't want Frontier to die just yet so it makes me curious what other experiments they have going on (all of the chimeras??).
But the series does seem to be building to the "battle for the planet" climax. At least that will give them an endless sky to fight in.
3 episodes left. Will Alto finally cease to be a tool? He began to piss me off when he forgot he only wants to fly, and started to act like some lousy wannabe psychiatrist for the girls, and feeling responsible for every decision made by others. It's probably better plotwise he was left behind (not that the life of a pirate would be good for a tool anyway) and maybe this will finally force him to make the first decision of his own.
Just watched it.
Can someone explain what that "Becoming pirates"-thing was about? I didnt get it that well...
Also, meh, Alto chooses Sheryl over Ranka...that was the boring, because obvious, choice. I wanted him to choose Ranka...
And lol, how weird has that to be when you´re flying in space, and a giant big boob-girl appears in front of you. Khlan is awsome xd
The crew is stealing the Quater, and going against the established ruling state Macross Fontier, hence becoming fugitives.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
And what is their goal?Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
Kill their former comrades?
Uhhuh. Ozma told Alto their goal: When everybody else is staring right, somebody better look left as well. Obviously they are trying to look at the humans-vajra conflict from a different perspective than the corrupt coup d'etat president now in power.
I wouldn't consider that their ultimate goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
Firstly, their intention is to leave Frontier, who, in their opinion, is not ruled by the rightful leader. They don't serve him, so they leave. By stealing the Quarter, they've made themselves, "pirates", and fugitives of Frontier. Leon knows what they're thinking, and that Ozma's on board. He'll issue a kill/capture-on-sight command, so it's note like Quarter has a choice but to fight.
Quarter's main goal, I believe, would be to wait for the emergence of a rightful leader, and aid them in overthrowing the current corrupted Frontier.
Will the bitch ever die? It's like a bad joke unless her second name is Kenny.
Alto still isn't too convincing but I'm hopeful he will get together with Ranka, after all. His little cooking and eating session with Sheryl in this episode looked more like someone taking care of somebody out of a sense of duty (or pity) than someone spending quality time with his loved one. Of course he even couldn't have been totally relaxed knowing Sheryl is a terminal case but still I didn't sense any particular love there, from Alto's direction.
That....unfortunately.....does seem like the case. I'm still hoping for an AltoxSheryl ending, but now that this, and Sheryl refusing to take her medicine is shown to us, it seems less and less likely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
So Grace is now a Colonel? What's up with that? Somehow, I don't think being a collection of minds will make her more of a war machine than Brera.
Too right about Alto seemingly joined SMS just yesterday. He might have improved his skills, but his way of thinking hasn't changed at all. Perhaps it's just unconvincing to be in a leading military role without a gruff, commanding voice.
Grace was probably always a Colonel since the beginning of the series. She certainly had command/control over Brera since his first appearance. We don't know all the details yet, but it seems likely that she joined the fringe militant branch almost immediately after Ranshe (and possibly Dr. Nome) rebuked her side of the research. Something Grace has only now come near to achieving.
I'd comment more, but I got really sidetracked trying to install dictionaries into Opera on Vista, and subsequently forgot what I was going to write about.
EDIT: Success!
Lol @ Alto´s brother.
Did he really intend to persuade Alto into that his destiny is to be the actor of a female role instead of fighting for humanity?
AAA-scene xD
Sad that Grace intended to kill Brera.
qftQuote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
A fight for a planet:
[gg]_Macross_Frontier_-_24_[2D45D489].mkv
I like Ranka suddenly a lot less after this episode. It's one thing to be an indecisive good little girl but quite another to become the willing tool of the immortal bitch Grace, and help in the massacre of humanity.
Also, why do the vajra suddenly suffer the company of Grace and Brera? It makes sense they have nothing against Ranka hanging around but Brera is nothing but a Grace's cyborg sextoy and the bitch herself... Well, she's whatever it is that makes a human immortal but how does that make her so close to the vajra?
Well to me it's obvious that she was able to crack all of Vajra's network protocols.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
By doing so, she's able to be identified as whatever she wants, and able to do so for Brera.
Also, she's able to control Ranka thanks to the Vajra bacteriae in her. At some point I think the human/zentran part of Ranka will be able to control herself again... but for the moment she can't because she is depressed.
Grace's ultimate goal is to become the Vajra queen and rule over the galaxy. As you've seen, even though the network is a multipeer one, nodes are more powerful than basic peers and the central nodes rules them all.
That central node is the queen.
I'm almost certain Grace has links with the zentran fonder of SMS... They spoke about the same thing, same project.
The question is why is it so cool to be ruling a galaxy with bug like slaves...
Regarding Alto, for some reason we can't certify he is dead yet. It was'nt as clear as for Michel...
We clearly see the beam hitting well behind the cockpit, we do not see his face nor body and the last images though showing explosions tell us nothing about his actual state.
Also the earring is a way to be linked to the network to both Ranka and Sheryl who hold vajra bacteriae.
So his near death experience is impact on Sheryl... and Ranka who will probably take control after she thinks her love interrest is dead.
What's with the recent resurgence of the "All Will Be One" versus Individuality theme in anime? This is like the 5th series in the past year, and the second this season. Not that I don't enjoy the allusion of a fight against socialism, Nanny-states, and possibly even as an affront to Buddhism...
At least this time Grace is trying to become the ultimate Queen Bitch of the Universe and it's not some delusional "everyone's equal" non-corporeal utopia.
I definitely echo the hate-Ranka-more now sentiment. For me, a lot of that came from the Sharon Apple projection she put up in space. This whole thing screams references to that last fight in Macross Plus, only it's Vajra instead of humans.
I was not pleased to see Sheryl's short monologue before she descended to the stage. She knows she will die, perhaps as a result of singing in this very battle, and she's just giving up. She doesn't even want to fight against Ranka, she's just pushing Alto into her arms by telling him to save her. I don't mind endings where the hero inevitably must kill the one he loves to save the world/universe/city. I miss those series from the late 90s, they had impact, like Gurren-Lagaan did.
I also agree with David here. Grace is way more powerful than we could have possibly suspected. She's spent the last decade learning exactly how to accomplish what she's attempted to do now. She's practiced plenty messing inside Brera's head too, now she's made him into a total slave. I had thought she was just wiping his memories again, but it looks like that is not the case.
Did anybody get screwed up video when the battle starts and at the credits?
I don't get why Grace is preserving the Vajra like that though. She wants to be Queen of the galaxy, and its humans/Zentrans rather than simply the Queen of the Hive, right? Shouldn't she be studying how the Mind rules the others like she's observed everything so far, so they can destroy the Vajra, take the fold quartz, build the network, and then she becomes the human's Hive Mind? This is assuming, of course, that Frontier knows she's on the Vajra's side, but the info seems to be confined to the Quarter.
Ozma and the rest of the Quarter crew explained that. Grace's plan would have all forms of life interconnected in a fold quartz powered galatic network, with her right at the top as the central node.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
However, her plan only works on people like her and Brera who have cranial implants. Those let humans/Zentran connect to a similar network like she does. However...how do you convince those who don't want cybernetic implants in their heads? You use an utterly loyal, completely unstoppable alien force to either kill or subdue those who resist.
This series is just always amazing. While Klan is adorable in her micronian form... she is just so kick ass as a zentradi. Definitely my dark horse favorite character.
A couple things...
Why not try jamming communication between the varja in this battle? If anything that seems like a good way to keep them from hearing Ranka's song.
Also, did the queen look like a possible macross ship to anyone else? If so, then I wonder who the queen is... Ranka's mother?
Pic of the queen:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y134/jhabel/queen.jpg
there's the implants and probably the V-type infection almost no one knows about that she studied for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryllharu
Yes Klan is a nice side character.Quote:
Originally Posted by xtallography
The queen probably is Ranshe, because at some point the first clear communication Ranka had with the Vajra network showed her her mother in the same fashion we see Ranka in the battle.
Jamming Vajra communication is almost impossible for Frontier/SMS/Nuns since they can't hack the protocol as Grace did.
You'd answer me back that you don't need to know the protocol to jam a connection, well that connection is particular. The only way we know is the conceal it with that weapon that sucks everything into oblivion.
That point is important when linked with the nodes hiearchy... If such a bomb was to explode near the queen, the Vajra network would be paralized for a while, until a new queen/supernode emerges. So that explosion has to kill Grace and possibly Ranka at the same time to be efficient for a long enough time.
Battle Galaxy?
I thought it's the head of Brera's VF 27 but I noticed the turrets.
They were able to jam fold wave communication an ep or two ago to try out their new weapons and prevent the varja from communicating back (so they don't evolve defenses against them etc etc). I thought the protocol was needed only to actually communicate to the varja. I'm not suggesting talking to them, I just mean to drown out all fold wave communication. Even if it is in just a limited range I would think it would still help against organization but maybe the range is too small for use in actual large scale battle conditions for it to be effective.
Hmmm correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Sheryll's V-type infection contagious? Through like..body fluids? If she just kissed him doesn't that make him infected too? ._.;
I don't think saliva was one of the "body fluids" they were referring to. More like blood and...the more intimate kind.
I don't understand what the Vajra are and why this quartz thing is able to control minds or whatever....
but that aside, I liked this ep (even though GG's version was screwed at the beginning of the fight and the credits)
Could someone explain to me what grace and that zentradi guy is trying to accomplish?
This is so irritating... actually I don't even know what is going on since it was mentioned for the first time.
Why is it possible for grace to control the vajra? All the time I thought that Ranka's singing did somehow irritate the foldwave communications of them and thats why they start to act like brainless beeings, since the "Overmind" can't send them orders anymore (much like Starcraft and the zerg.)
That quartz enable long distance and no delay communication.Quote:
Originally Posted by KrayZ33
It's also a base for supra-luminous speed travelling.
The Vajra works almost as a unique being thanks to the way they communicate, since the range is huge and there's no delay (like minutes from earth to mars for each input you have on the robots there), it works very effectively.
Why is Grace able to control that?
that's because she cracked the protocol used for the communication.
Just like she would be able to crack an encrypted communication from two PCs.
As she cracked that, she is able to be seen by the network as a Vajra, thus isn't targeted by them. Now she's trying to hack the core of the system: the Queen.
Why was she able to crack the communication protocol?
Thanks to Ranka.
Before that, Grace accumulated tons of data, but since Vajra are so different from any other race, she wasn't able to grasp how that worked.
Ranka being a symbiotic Vajra/human-zentran, she was some kind of Dictionnary or I should say a Rosetta stone. In Ranka, everything Vajra from the protocol had a counterpart in human-zentran. On the latter part, Grace probably has extensive knowledge, so it was a key to understand the protocol.
Remember that Ranka is partly Vajra, once Grace cracks the protocol, she is able to control anyone on the network... like Ranka.
For Brera it's because he is a bio-robot and Grace is her chief in that matter.
For their aim?
Well they want total control over the galaxy. The Vajra are a huge power that can enforce anything on any living being in the Galaxy. Go figure why being so omnipotent is important.
So what, you're the God of your Galaxy, then what do you do next?
Regarding the problems you have with that ep, update ffdsho to 2110 and it will disapear.
It is not just about omnipotence for Grace. It is about pride, and trying to prove herself and her ideas correct. Pride or actions that arise from it are usually an end in itself, so she is not really moving with any logical goal in mind.
Final Frontier:
[gg]_Macross_Frontier_-_25_[A3CDD196].mkv
(It may be an hour special, but I haven't confirmed it yet. If not, 700MB is a tad overkill)
Edit: I take that back. 700MB is fine :)
The final isn't a hour long special its pure awesome though as I watched the raw earlier.
The release is massive because they added 4 audiotracks.
Default Track: No songs. 2nd Track: w/songs. 3rd Track: Zentradi, no songs. 4th Track: Zentradi w/songs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDBen
No the size really is in the video. Because the tracks they mention only changes the subtitles and karaoke ie text... so not a great deal of data.
Maybe they did a better audio encoding, we even have 5.1 here... but I do not see that explain twice the size of a nice HD encode.
Regarding the ep, well the end sure was rushed
The epic Frontier vs Galaxy duel I'm anticipating didn't happen, worse Battle Frontier just stood there and it didn't even fire the main gun. The Quarter transforming while flipping and doing the classic Daedalus maneuver was awesome though, way to go Bobby.
That scene of Mr. Birler holding a locket with Minmei's photo was a bit surprising, an episode ago he said that he'll finally be able to see her again. Maybe the key to finding the lost Megaroad vessel is in that planet.
Alto saluting his trashed VF-25 reminded me of Zechs and Tallgeese, poor VF.
The script of this episode, or what was visible of it under all the space battle, was somewhat dodgy. I don't know if it was rushed as such because logically thinking the humans were being wiped out and so it couldn't have take any longer. The fighting itself, which clearly is what this was all about in addition to the ever present singing, was good in my opinion.
I didn't really connect with this show at all at any point too deeply so I think this was a jolly good last ep, even if it still didn't resolve the bloody triangle...
Wow, that was the best musical, beam-spam-filled, missile-spam-filled, vibrantly colorful smorgasbord of awesome fluff I've seen in a LONG time. I don't even care about the plot at (which I think is how it's supposed to be). The bad guys are dead, music has saved the galaxy, and everyone is happy with their current situation (except maybe Luca since breasts girl could still reject him to try and break up the SherylxRankaxAltoxAi-kun quadrangle). I think this is how it had to end and while I think they could have tied up the plot a little better I really don't care. The final battle was highly enjoyable and had in it all the elements that drew me to this show in the first place. And now we can start forgetting about Macross for a while and move on to the next thing (Linebarrel anyone?)
visually this was mindblowing it was all so random and just over the top but i smiled the whole time. there was so much i was angry about in the middle of this series but i forgive it all it was truly an awsome ending all is forgiven ... even Macross 7 =)
well its over how many more years will i have to wait for another Macross anime this series truly started me down the path of loving anime years ago thank you Robotec (Macross)
I'm with Yuki on this one. Totally tops any mecha show I've seen for a long LONG time. The "lets keep the love-triangel going so no one gets left out" sure doesn't resolve anything, but it works for me. There's a lot of comments saying that the ending was rushed, but I didn't feel that way. They pretty much covered everything they had to, and in a manner that didn't drag and take the adrenalin from the main battle.
I particularly liked how they recycled the "war machines understanding humanity" theme. Quite fitting for a show celebrating the 25th anniversary of Original Macross.
All in all, this ended on a very good note for me, and I'm willing to put it down for my personal list as Best Anime 2008 (for now at least). What's more is the ending didn't leave me said it finished, despite how awesome I thought the show was, which is a first.
For those who weren't 100% satisfied with the ending, or simply Macross fans, there was an announcement at the end (but out by gg) for a movie version Macross Frontier.
Wow what a ending. Seriously the amount they managed to fit into this episode was astonishing and and contrary to a few I felt it flowed incredibly well without being to rushed. Little things like Klan's Zentradi mecha being replaced with Michele's Skull One were subtle yet very well thought out additions overall. The battle itself and the almost nonstop music really caused this entire episode to come alive for me. In addition I can't give them enough credit for letting characters who died STAY dead unlike some other series with to many Decoy ships laying around.
All and all I would say this series outdid my expectations by miles and I look very forward to the movie assuming its a progression of the story instead of a retelling of the series. Also I think not resolving the love triangle was the best way to end it. This leaves them enough room to finish it up in the movie if they so choose. However beyond that both of the female leads ended up with completely equal footing in the long run so honestly how could they have possibly left Alto to choose one without at least another episode?
Another Note I loved the fact in this series that each of Ranka's/Sheryl's songs during this series and highlighted in the end really tells the story from each girls perspective. You can really tell that each song was written to convey a part of the story and to have all of those pieces put together as a concert for the last couple of episodes couldn't have been done any more perfectly. If you haven't taken the time to read the lyrics and think about what they mean in context to the show I really suggest you do so..
DDBen if you happen to have a quick link handy to some of the more prominent songs that you referenced in your topic above about what the lyrics mean id love to take a look at that =)
I just hope they continue the story and give a proper conclusion to the love triangle, hopefully Sheryl emerging the winner. If they just leave it like this, I can't really say it is a good ending, since they just left one major plot point hanging, never to be addressed. The movie hopefully aims to fill this gap.
@DDben - You should not forget that Alto "died" in the previous episode, only to make a triumphant comeback in this one, with his only decent excuse being he is the protagonist.
Its not really about a link just read over the lyrics and think them over a bit. Its fairly clear Sheryl writes her songs as they tend to contain a lot of personal meaning. In contrast Ranka's songs are basically all covers.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoBear
http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/mac...otorinohit.htm
http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/macrossf/aimo.htm
Aimo is a direct reference to the bird humans and Macross Zero. For Ranka the song really represents her past as it seems she learned it from her mother.
http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/mac...boutmystar.htm
http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/mac...tboutmysta.htm
What about my Star starts as Sheryl's song but is also later used by Ranka. This ones kind of used to show them battling over position. Kind of to say what about me! Also being the song used to fight over Alto in the hospital.
http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/mac...mondcrevas.htm
Diamond Crevas is Sheryl basically giving up as she falls into despair.
http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/mac...therncross.htm
http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/macrossf/infinity.htm
These are also directly written to Alto Sheryl seems to be constantly writing her feelings for him into her music.
Sagittarius 9pm. Don't be late
http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/mac...zagogokuji.htm
Note Alto is Sagittarius 1 when he gets shot down in 24. This is a Song Sheryl wrote to him specifically while they were dating after Ranka left.
http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/mac...jinlovesyo.htm
That one just proves Ranka was turning into a cooperate whore :P
http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/macrossf/lion.htm
Lion is about Sheryl's plea to survive the "brain aids" she has. She's past wanting to die at that point she really wants to be strong and live on of course with Alto even if she thinks its impossible.
Just some quick thoughts. To me I was just impressed how meaningful all of Sheryl's songs were and its also the main reason I think he should be with her Over Ranka. I found the ending where She was singing with everything she had to tell Alto how much she cared about him while she said goodbye. Then after Ranka moved the Virus out of her brain and into her intestines how when she's singing again its about surviving the battle and no longer about saying goodbye.
I 100% disagree with this. The fact pilots had solo flight suits and he ejected and waited on nearby debris was completely in character. His mech was shown to have only been shot in the wing and they only stated the signal from his Valkarie was lost. This is quite a bit different from showing people die in a bath of light in the middle of nukes multiple times or shooting someone with a magic Machine gun and having them wake up with minor wounds. Also the Valkarie they brought him was HIS in the first place they took it when they left with the Macross Quarter and Klan getting Michele's mech as well was genius.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
It does not change the fact that he came back from the dead. It was better executed of course, but what you were pointing out in your previous post was that no one came back from the dead in this show, and clearly, the episode before this one (where his fighter clearly got blown to pieces and Sheryl screamed in horror at the sight of it) was going for the "protagonist seems to have been killed but obviously he can't be gone" approach. If it was any other character instead of Alto in that scene last episode, no one would think that person would still be alive, and it would seem like another dramatic death like Michel's used to usher in the final climax.
They certainly did it as a cliffhanger to build tension but I disagree he came back from the dead. There is a massive difference between someone being shown as clearly dying with ZERO chance of survival aka Michele in this series. Who disappears for several episodes and then magically shows up later with no explanation of what happened. Alto was at no point shown dying his craft was merely shown blowing up and before that it was shown being damaged in a non-critical location. Its not like he was shown pushing someone out of the way of one of those fold missiles had himself shown dying in the cockpit of his mech and then when Sheryl fell over in a clump he walks out of nowhere kisses her to magically heal her and sing a duet.
So no in absolutely no way did he come back from the dead. At the end of 24 we are shown purely the perspective of a onlooker. In 25 in the VERY beginning we are shown Alto's perspective and with next to no delay we have him radioing in to say he's alright. I mean its not like they showed his corpse in space and then "erased it" in a special edition to have a excuse to have him alive for season 2 or anything.
I don't know what magic there was in the guns that were used to kill the previous president and it was just one huge bomb that killed Grace the first time, but Alto's "resurrection" certainly was better than Grace's immortality. Besides, she didn't have any wounds, probably because it was a different body (why doesn't she wake up somewhere yet again, btw... The bitch could have 100 bodies in store all around the galaxy). But in short, I saw nothing wrong in Alto's survival since the initial hit didn't kill him.Quote:
Originally Posted by DDBen
I'm not sure why your quoting me on this one as we agree about this one Kraco. My comments that you quoted were referencing crap that came out of R2 with at least 3 characters of various importance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
As for Grace her immortality was based on the Battle Galaxy(whatever Galaxies Macross was called). Being they took out both her Macross and her Main body inside the queens head. At that point I assume she was killed. Even if she had some other bodies somewhere. Of course even assuming she does. Still in the case of Grace she didn't come back to life she simply wasn't killed in the first place.
You don't seem to understand my point at all. I am not saying that Alto's survival is unfeasible. In fact, it is fairly well done (especially compared to that other show) as I said in my previous post.
What I am saying is, the creators intended his "death" scene to seem like a death scene, and the only reason people did not immediately assume that he is dead is because he is the protagonist. So, if there is a "death" scene, where his plane explodes with no sign of him ejecting, him appearing again the next episode is technically coming back from the dead.
You seem to be aware of the fact that the perspectives on how a scene is delivered affects its interpretation by the viewers (and Macross F did well in this respect). What you did miss though, is that this can be applied to "being bathed in the light" scenes as well. The gap between disappearance and reappearance does not matter either.
Setting the reason for survival aspect aside, I don't see how being bathed in white light followed by a scene cut (remember that the perspective shown is also limited as in Alto's case) is a more definite sign of death than a plane blowing to pieces without any signs of ejection (take note that the viewers knowledge of the story at this point is only up to episode 24).
What you said about Grace also applies to all the other "resurrected" characters you were criticizing. They never really died (that is what the show claims anyway, as hard to believe their excuse is), so they didn't come back to life either.
EDIT: Well, this is mere semantics anyway, so any further argumentation is unnecessary. Don't worry, I get your point, and I only wanted to clarify mine.
I guess a lot was already said while I was downloading this ridiculously large filesized episode. I suppose I will just leave my impressions.
While I certainly loved the series, I feel totally, completely used. The love triangle remains unresolved! Damn those bastards for stringing us along, dividing us into either pro-Sheryl or pro-Ranka camps, and then leaving us with nothing!
As someone said before, I was a little surprised, but very glad to see that the Daedalus Attack (using a pinpoint barrier to punch the hell out of another warship, and then have land units or Koenig Monsters blow the hell out of it from the inside) was still a completely viable strategy 50 years later.
It also seems I was wrong before, Klan's hair may not, but Sheryl's hair does change color. Apparently V-type infections sap the vibrant luster out of a girl's hair.
I had goosebumps throughout this whole episode.
Me too. But it kinda ended when Sheryl miraculously survive and became a Vajra singer. But the animation was top notched.Quote:
Originally Posted by animus
Just watched the final episode. A solid series all in all, but just to un-creative, especially the ending. And that Alto didnt choose one of the two girls was kind of disappointing as well.
Well, that´s all i can say. Not a series i would rewatch, but it doesnt feel as if i wasted my time on it.
I was hoping for more valkryie action throughout the series, but then again I loved the songs so much that it makes up for the lack of transforming planes. Still, I thought how they arranged the songs in the last episode was interesting but a little messy at the same time.
There's a movie? I can't wait to see Sheryl and Ranka again, perhaps in a concert together.
I'm really getting into the alternate versions in the the second OST. The medly was good, though not quite as good as what I remembered from ep25.
Anyway, here's the OST artwork as the link didn't come with one (again:().
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/3926/401590nx5.jpg
Sheryl Nome aka May'n is coming to Singapore for a event, and will be singing songs from the album. I'm still thinking whether I should attend. I'd definately go if Nakashima Megumi's coming too.
Finally watch this searies and msut say i enjoyed it. Though the most exciting part was between eps 6-12 for me it still had a good ending.
Can never get used to the 'hero' not being able to choose his girl.
Thinking back to the final episode, there was a line where Alto said that they were "both his wings," so it may be a harem ending after all. If Sheryl and Ranka can learn to share Alto, everyone would be happy.
But didn't Sheryl accept Ranka's challenge at the end. But I hope it's possible for me :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Ryllharu
Accepting the challenge means seeing Ranka as a worthy rival, not a worthy threesome candidate.
Edit: Or does it? I remember something similar happening in a doujin, where Sheryl accepts Ranka's "challenge" :rolleyes:
Yes she did. To quote it(from the gg subs):Quote:
Originally Posted by Besu
Ranka: Um...Sheryl. I wont loose. In song, or in love!
Sheryl: I accept your challenge!
Buffalo is on point with this one though, basically you have the trappings of a romantic comedy in the making imo.
Two different points of view. Sheryl and Ranka want to win out over the other one, but Alto doesn't really seem to care, and seems to prefer to have both of them at once. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
Hence, "If Sheryl and Ranka can learn to share Alto..."
I quoted Alto to begin with.
Besides the upcoming movie that will be a theatrical adaptation of the TV series, a second movie has been announced that will have a new story and fresh music
http://myanimelist.net/anime/7222/Ma...r_Second_Movie
I'm looking forward to it.
I think that this merits some discussion, but not in the thread it was in.
I don't think it was ever clear that the V-type infection of Vajra parasites was actually contagious. If you're born with them in your blood, as Ranka was since her mother was infected, they settle in your abdomen. If you get infected due to some exposure, then flow throughout the blood and slowly kill you as they collect in the brain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
But they don't really leave the host body.
Nor was it clear how Sheryl was infected in the first place. She was simply found by Grace in a back alley living in squalor aboard the Galaxy Fleet, already infected. She was adopted by Dr. Nome and some of the damage done was slowed/reversed.
She never infected anyone else though (nor did Ranka), leading me to believe it is more like respiratory diseases, created by the conditions one is in rather than a specific vector. They seemed to be only passed by mother to child.
According to AniDB it's nothing but a cut and paste work of the original series. I'll pass.
This is definitely not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
While it had most of the original elements intact, it changed a lot of things. All new scenes lead to better character development despite the short screen time, and overall it felt like a more compact and efficient version of the series. You don't need to have watched the series to appreciate and enjoy this movie, much different from A Certain Time (Un)limited Movie.
The action is eye candy, the fanservice is plain awesome, and the changes are very welcome. Watch this.
EDIT: I hated Ranka in the original, but I'm fine with her on this one. Sheryl was, well, delicious. Gochisou sama deshita.
[Commie] Macross Frontier the Movie ~Sayonara no Tsubasa~ [BD 1080p AAC] [66AE8F11].mkv - 3.8 GB
[Commie] Macross Frontier the Movie ~Sayonara no Tsubasa~ [BD 5.1 FLAC] [3AD13563].mka - 1.2 GB
Is .mka a new container or just a typo?
thats not true, I havn't watched the movie but I watched an AMV lately which featured a lot of new scenes tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
http://vimeo.com/29552962
and I'm pretty certain that it tells a "different" story... or from different perspectives, or something like that
well to sum it up, new scenes.
These movies are an excellent supplement to the Frontier tv series. A must watch for any Macross Frontier fan...or any Macross fan. If you think you don't need to watch them because you watched the series...reconsider. They're very different.
This was a really dense movie. A lot goes on, and then I realized it had only been 25 minutes!
----------------------
Just like I always liked Ranka's squishy frog phone, I equally love that Sheryl's is a taiyaki. It just seems so out of place when compared to the way she prefers to act in front of the public or at performances. Of course, it perfectly fits with the way she acts in front of Alto, which is how she really is.
The shot of Sheryl's room with her staring longingly at a picture of Alto in Kabuki onnagata getup. :3 Then Alto's Kabuki flashback...with a young Sheryl happily watching, entranced (So cute~). It also served as a good explanation for why Sheryl got into singing, aside from the previously nebulous reason of being adopted into the Nome family.
One of the best parts was that Alto got to play a much more active role in the final battle, rather than just rescuing a songstress and making the final shot. He was a vital part of the battle's success.
Also very interesting that Grace and others offer to cure Sheryl by having her undergo cybernization. I liked the reference to Sheryl and Alto's conversation in the tv series that her being fully human as a point of pride (and marketing) despite the trend toward cybernetic enhancement aboard Galaxy.
I'm a little bit disappointed they still went with making Grace and her cohorts evil. I was starting to like the twist in the previous movie where the leaders of Frontier were using the vajra as a political weapon against Galaxy, and Grace seemed like one of the good people. Someone who (on some level) legitimately cared for Sheryl's wellbeing and the wellbeing of those aboard Galaxy. In the tv series, Grace had become an evil caricature by the end. Then again, I really liked the way they made Grace come off as much more manipulative here. She showed concern for Sheryl while slowly, slowly achieving her own ends. They didn't have much build up before in the series, Grace just suddenly announced her evilness. The movie version is done so much better. Even more interesting is how the takeover of Frontier went for her. We got to finally see what Grace's compatriots now look like. It makes a lot of sense really. They'd do anything to see their idea through.
Even when she's beaten down, Grace is still Grace though. Her ambition is what makes her great. I was glad for the final turnaround though, even if it was a little cheesy.
Ranka's concert definitely got some influence from Sheryl's style, but the little fairies breaking off everywhere reminded me a lot of Sharon Apple's style. A nice touch, the same way Sheryl's concert in the tv series pulled influence from there.
The movie further emphasized the comparison of the VF-27 Lucifer as the successor to the YF-21 (with its brain-link control system) and the VF-25 Messiah as the successor to the YF-19. Loved the VB-6 König Monster having Sheryl and Ranka painted on. The YF-29 is kinda bullshit though. Macross 7 kind of bullshit.
Cute visual reference to the tv series Opening song and romantic theme of the series on the rooftop of the hospital. Triangular indeed. Too bad Leon had to ruin it by actually pointing it out.
Overall, this movie is extremely brutal politically. I love it.
The Valkyrie sleeps while she guides her warrior back across the rainbow bridge...
I'll always like Ranka...I just like Sheryl way more.
Random tidbits:
- Goth loli Alto...
- The Alcatraz concert is without a doubt a Fire Bomber reference (Macross 7). Still looks ridiculous.
- There wasn't enough Klan, but Klan and Mikhail both survived this time!
- Ozma Lee,totalUltimate badass.
- The Quarter surfing...not badass.
- I'm still not sure why Vajra explode.
I will watch this.
SHERYL WINS, NUFF SAID.
I got goosebumps every time they started singing.
This movie was outstanding.
Edited for my stupid fucking grammar.
Also:
Attachment 1039Quote:
- The Quarter surfing...not badass.
It was super dimensional badass
I'm just glad it had a happy ending. I was terrified at the thought of tragedy while watching the credits roll.
When I was writing that post up, I originally had in the quote from the tv series about, "I'll show you why as ship this size carries the name 'Macross'!" (paraphrasing). Then they started surfing on the debris rather than just plunging into the atmosphere like a champ (maybe with its arms crossed too...).Quote:
Originally Posted by EpyonNext
'Twas no Daedalus Attack moment, that's for sure.
I thought it was pretty cool, but not something I would proudly recommend to non-fans.
I would have liked it better if they used a little surfing to dodge a few beams, but the entire time it looked like they could even gain altitude with that piece of rock - that I disliked.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
Ozma coughed up blood after taking a shitload of bullets from Brera head-on, but looking fine when he rescues Sheryl was perhaps the most jarring inconsistency for me in this movie..but
We finally got an answer from Alto: Sheryl one. Cool movie.
(yah.. finally getting my backlog moving again!)
Latest re-run of Macross Frontier ended with the announcement of a new TV anime in development. New Macross series in the works!
New pop songs to listen to, new VF models for Buff to buy!