Dragon Ball Super

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Originally Posted by NeoCybercoin

So did Caulifla turn SSJ2 for a moment there?

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Ya she did. Super Saiyan one does not have the White Lightning and you can tell she powered up... it as clear as a sunny day... Her hair even changed. She better not go SSJ3 otherwise her crotch will have some massive growth peeping out from the top of her joggers. Which could be hot. :p

Now that I got my wish for Frieza to be in the Tournament, I now want Goku to revisit Super Saiyan God and make that a transformation instead of SSB, we can have SSG again. With all his training since Hit, SSG should be more Godly than Beerus and Whis combined I think.

SSJ God (red aura) is stronger than blue? First time I hear that. I thought it was before blue in line. (SSJ -> SSJ2 -> SSJ3 -> SSJGod -> SSJBlue)

The manga explains that Blue is stronger than Red when Vegeta uses Red to fight Goku Black, however it uses more stamina.

Ssj2 has Blue thunder, thats how you set them apart.

In the manga it is explained that Red is faster and uses less stamina but does not have that much power when compared to Blue.
Then again in the manga it is also said that turning Blue on and off over and over reduces it's power by 10X each time you do it. Something Vegeta overcame while Goku found a different path to make Blue even stronger.

Blue is stronger since blue is a red that goes super.

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Originally Posted by Shadow Skill

Ya she did. Super Saiyan one does not have the White Lightning and you can tell she powered up... it as clear as a sunny day... Her hair even changed. She better not go SSJ3 otherwise her crotch will have some massive growth peeping out from the top of her joggers. Which could be hot. :p

Now that I got my wish for Frieza to be in the Tournament, I now want Goku to revisit Super Saiyan God and make that a transformation instead of SSB, we can have SSG again. With all his training since Hit, SSG should be more Godly than Beerus and Whis combined I think.

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i was more with the impression that kale got a new kind of SSJ... one that comes from despair or sadness instead of rage... her ki was green instead of the usual yellow... then again that goes with brolly's green hair... but at the same time we cant said that brolly was cannon can we?

They are making it seem like in order to go legendary you need to feel despair or humility?

Maybe Goku will pick up on this somehow..

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Originally Posted by ForteCross

i was more with the impression that kale got a new kind of SSJ... one that comes from despair or sadness instead of rage... her ki was green instead of the usual yellow... then again that goes with brolly's green hair... but at the same time we cant said that brolly was cannon can we?

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No but a lot of people are hoping Brolly gets a mention so then they can "OMGOOSE BROLLY BE CANON NOW. SUCK IT LOSERS I WIN TEH INTERWEBZ" cause this is a debate that's been going on for 20 years at least. :/

I still hope SSJG becomes a thing again. Or at least try and combine the Ki control to SSJ2 or 3 mode. SSJB is basically Ki control, that was established during the hit arc. I see some advancement in those areas. Why not add that Ki control to SSJG mode?

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Originally Posted by MFauli

SSJ God (red aura) is stronger than blue?

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It's not. Because SSJ Blue is Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan combined.

Now, logically, that means you should be able to go Blue 2 and Blue 3 by combining SSJ2 and 3 with SSJG.

In the manga Goku changes Blue a little to become a lot stronger by holding all of the Ki inside of him. No more Blue aura and all that. It's all focused inside of him.

Have you guys seen MasakoX's video about the colors of SSJ? So far it seem to match. Especially from what we have seen happen to Kale.

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Originally Posted by DarthEnderX

It's not. Because SSJ Blue is Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan combined.

Now, logically, that means you should be able to go Blue 2 and Blue 3 by combining SSJ2 and 3 with SSJG.

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My problem with this is that they do not go Super Saiyan to go SSB. They go from Normal form to SSB. In order to reach SSB they had to train their normal form without SSJ. Either this is a very serious overlooked retcon/continuity error or Toriyama needs to come up with some other reason to fix this mess. If I can see the error here, most other probably are as well, I mean those in Japan who matter.

As far as I can understand SSB and SSJG, SSJG should be infinitely better over SSB. That's just from the information in the anime and manga. So either the studio or Toriyama forgot their reasoning behind SSB and are now trying to change it mid story, which makes zero sense even in the long run.

THIS is a fact and has been established that SSB is only Ki control, nothing more. SSJG was almost on Par with Beerus. SSB was puss factor mode in the beginning. Training will make SSB strong, they are overlooking many factors by neglecting SSJG, which after all that normal mode training and Ki control training, should put SSJG beyond Beerus and whis at this point in the story.

From what I recall....Blue is combined with SSJ AND better Ki Control.
Anyway, seems like the anime won't use SSG again since it hasn't even been shown afterward the movie did. And it being on par with Beerus? I'd say no. Far from it.

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Originally Posted by NeoCybercoin

From what I recall....Blue is combined with SSJ AND better Ki Control.
Anyway, seems like the anime won't use SSG again since it hasn't even been shown afterward the movie did. And it being on par with Beerus? I'd say no. Far from it.

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Uh... SSJ and Ki control are not even mentioned ever... Even Whis when training them mentions that them using Ki control and training in SSJ would be pointless. That is why as they trained it was always in their base form. Did you not watch the first 16 episodes?

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Originally Posted by Shadow Skill

Uh... SSJ and Ki control are not even mentioned ever...

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This is flat out false. SSJ Blue is explicitly described as "a transformation that uses the power of Super Saiyan God with the Super Saiyan form".

Or as Goku describes it, "I'm a Saiyan with the powers of a Super Saiyan God who is Super Saiyan."

That's why it was originally called Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

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Originally Posted by Shadow Skill

That is why as they trained it was always in their base form.

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They always train in their base form because all of their transformations multiply the power of their base form. So the best way to increase the power of all their transformations is to increase the power of their base form.

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Originally Posted by Shadow Skill

My problem with this is that they do not go Super Saiyan to go SSB. They go from Normal form to SSB. In order to reach SSB they had to train their normal form without SSJ. Either this is a very serious overlooked retcon/continuity error or Toriyama needs to come up with some other reason to fix this mess. If I can see the error here, most other probably are as well, I mean those in Japan who matter.

As far as I can understand SSB and SSJG, SSJG should be infinitely better over SSB. That's just from the information in the anime and manga. So either the studio or Toriyama forgot their reasoning behind SSB and are now trying to change it mid story, which makes zero sense even in the long run.

THIS is a fact and has been established that SSB is only Ki control, nothing more. SSJG was almost on Par with Beerus. SSB was puss factor mode in the beginning. Training will make SSB strong, they are overlooking many factors by neglecting SSJG, which after all that normal mode training and Ki control training, should put SSJG beyond Beerus and whis at this point in the story.

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what error are you even talking about?

we now talk about SSB, but before the easier name goku and vegeta had trouble coming with a normal name that would be easy for goku to say... so what we have so far was:

Normal Saiyan<Super Saiyan<Super Saiyan 2< Super Saiyan 3<Super Saiyan God< Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan (blue)< Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Kaio Ken

they never said that blue was weaker than red... they even said that to become blue you need to master red first and apply the same training to super saiyan... but because going up the numbers of super saiyan means getting less ki control and using saiyan god means controlling as much ki as possible then it creates this conflict where they have hard time getting more power ups...

by the way this is why kaioken is back also, because kaio ken meant controlling ki then it was incompatible with the normal super saiyan but now that they can go super saiyan while controlling ki then goku can combine kaio ken with super saiyan...

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Originally Posted by ForteCross

what error are you even talking about?

we now talk about SSB, but before the easier name goku and vegeta had trouble coming with a normal name that would be easy for goku to say... so what we have so far was:

Normal Saiyan<Super Saiyan<Super Saiyan 2< Super Saiyan 3<Super Saiyan God< Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan (blue)< Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Kaio Ken

they never said that blue was weaker than red... they even said that to become blue you need to master red first and apply the same training to super saiyan... but because going up the numbers of super saiyan means getting less ki control and using saiyan god means controlling as much ki as possible then it creates this conflict where they have hard time getting more power ups...

by the way this is why kaioken is back also, because kaio ken meant controlling ki then it was incompatible with the normal super saiyan but now that they can go super saiyan while controlling ki then goku can combine kaio ken with super saiyan...

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I understand all that. My point is, their Ki control is done in their base form and their entire training is done in base form for SSB. NO where during their training with whis did they use SSJ to try and master KI control. I think some of you might be trying to connect something that is not even there. That is why I said there is now a continuity error concerning the SSJG and SSB. Something that is either overlooked or that Toei or Toryiama will be addressing in the future as to why SSJ is never even mentioned when they trained with whis on Ki control to become SSB. They don't have to go through SSJ to become SSB, like they have to go SSJ to become SJ2 or SSJ3. Another error that I think some in the DBS community might be trying to connect to SSJ so it can make sense to them even though SSJ was never mentioned as to needing to go SSB. From the previous episodes I watched is the proper translation "It's like SSJGOD and SSSJ combined together to become SSB" That does not mean they are connected in anyway shape or form. That is more of a description than any actual training.

They are comparing SSB to needing both SSJ and SSJG to be COMPARABLE to SSB in terms of power. I honestly don't see it saying that SSB is the power up form of SSJ and SSJG together to be SSB. That is a description to how strong SSB is. I think some in the community are confusing that with "OHHH SSJ and SSJG = SSB" when Goku and Vegeta don't even go SSJ to go SSB like they do to reach SSJ3. They completely skip that step.

Pretty sure SSJG should be infinitely stronger now due to their base form training and their Ki control mastery. That's my view on it with all the information available. if I am wrong, Toei/Toriyama need to address these errors.

Instead of continuing to post about the differences between the anime and the manga in this thread,
I've decided to make a Dragon Ball Super thread in the manga forum.

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Originally Posted by Shadow Skill

I understand all that. My point is, their Ki control is done in their base form and their entire training is done in base form for SSB. NO where during their training with whis did they use SSJ to try and master KI control.

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To be fair, I don't think you can accurately say WHAT their training entails, because you don't get to see very much of it. They were training with Whis for months and the anime only shows a couple of scenes of it.

They don't even show the first time Goku or Vegeta discover SSJ Blue. It's revealed during the Freeza fight after they'd already unlocked it. So you can't say for sure WHAT kind of training they were doing when they actually unlocked Blue for the first time.

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Originally Posted by Shadow Skill

They are comparing SSB to needing both SSJ and SSJG to be COMPARABLE to SSB in terms of power. I honestly don't see it saying that SSB is the power up form of SSJ and SSJG together to be SSB. That is a description to how strong SSB is. I think some in the community are confusing that with "OHHH SSJ and SSJG = SSB" when Goku and Vegeta don't even go SSJ to go SSB like they do to reach SSJ3. They completely skip that step.

Pretty sure SSJG should be infinitely stronger now due to their base form training and their Ki control mastery. That's my view on it with all the information available. if I am wrong, Toei/Toriyama need to address these errors.

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You are the first person on the internet I've encountered that didn't think SSJ Blue was just activating SSJ and SSJ God at the same time.

The characters say it. The wikis say it. You're the only person I've seen who thinks it's just a metaphor used to describe the comparable power levels involved.

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Originally Posted by DarthEnderX

Instead of continuing to post about the differences between the anime and the manga in this thread,
I've decided to make a Dragon Ball Super thread in the manga forum.

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That makes it the Super Dragon Ball Super Thread.

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Originally Posted by DarthEnderX

Instead of continuing to post about the differences between the anime and the manga in this thread,
I've decided to make a Dragon Ball Super thread in the manga forum.

To be fair, I don't think you can accurately say WHAT their training entails, because you don't get to see very much of it. They were training with Whis for months and the anime only shows a couple of scenes of it.

They don't even show the first time Goku or Vegeta discover SSJ Blue. It's revealed during the Freeza fight after they'd already unlocked it. So you can't say for sure WHAT kind of training they were doing when they actually unlocked Blue for the first time.

You are the first person on the internet I've encountered that didn't think SSJ Blue was just activating SSJ and SSJ God at the same time.

The characters say it. The wikis say it. You're the only person I've seen who thinks it's just a metaphor used to describe the comparable power levels involved.

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True I understand that. Whis words though was that it is better for them to train their base form, now we can extrapolate from that statement if you wish, if you want to nitpick here. It took Vegeta 6 months to with solo training with whis to unlock SSB. Did he even unlock SSJG before SSB? The anime does not mention. We can go with the movie first since the anime recovered the Battle of Gods and RoF arcs to make them canon and go from there if that makes you happy? Probably not since some are going with the Manga and the Manga is behind the anime. The Manga may change some things in the future like they apparently did for the SSB and SSJG.

Goku and Vegeta themselves compared SSB as SSJG and SSJ combined.... SSJGSSJ was used in the beginning of RoF arc and that form was very weak compared to the Battle of God's SSJG form. I can't see Toriyama and Toei to go from that Red form that stood 80 % evenly to Beerus 100 % to SSB that Beerus knocked around like he was swatting flies. You understand what I am saying yet? Continuity error?

This is why I believe they should revisit the SSJG to fix these errors. Based on the testimony of the characters themselves on Ki control and the forms. SSJG should be very superior to SSB now. SSJG should suprass both Beerus and Whis after all their training. If not, then Toriyama and Toei should revisit this and fix it and then dumb both forms down to fix the errors that the movie and the first 23/24 anime episodes have caused. I don't read the Manga and it is behind, if they do change it in the Manga, then they should do the proper thing and address it in the anime as well.

Go back to the episode 18 around 17:20 to 18:04. I think they need re-address these statements. Granted some will say it was in the Manga but since is behind the anime, they should address such changes in the anime as well. Statements like that is going against the entire DBS community's belief on how SSB and SSJG works.