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yup i think so too... well its maybe not really "light" i like but what he's doing
its so hard to say if it is right or wrong what .. and that's what i like about it.. the people in the anime either hate or support him.. this is just fantastic...
the hide and seek game comes second for me (which is great too)
it reminds me a bit of code geass... there again it is difficult to say..
Hard to say if killing random people with no remorse is right or wrong?
Man, I'm glad you are not my neighbour. No offense, but still...
Criminals aren't random people.... and the same with people trying to stop him......Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
Yes they were. When you just look at a newspaper and think that man deserves to die for whatever the newspaper accused him of, then it's random people. As well as people who were just doing their job trying to arrest Light himself, the worst criminal of them all.
Or if you insist, I can admit they were arbitrary, not random...
Im completely against killing criminal in our real world, because there´s no real justice involved.
BUT if i had an allmighty power like the Death Note, then i would use it. But only because of its almight. The fact that noone would be safe from "justice" would justify its use to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
well its because you can't see through lights actions...
its difficult for me to explain because my english sucks but i'll give it a try..
what do you think will people do when they know there is someone who punishes you in an instant if you do something like rape/murder and stuff... i believe they wouldn't do it anymore... criminalism like this would simply stop
and btw
history showed us that there have to be sacrifices to create a new and better order..
you have to kill 100 to safe 100000 sometimes... thats life.
and there is a saying which goes like "kill 1 to scare a hundred" and thats what light does... he kills a few criminals to scare everyone so that they won't become criminals anymore
so i wouldn't say "it was all wrong"... and btw did you never thought of something like "damn this bastard.. i wish he would simply die" after hearing something in the news like "person xyz raped and killed 25 12-17 years old children" and so on?
isn't it just natural to think he deserves the death sentence? we used to live with the code ( i m not sure what it is called in english) "eye to eye, tooth to tooth" which simply means
if you kill my son, i will kill your son
or
if you do something bad to me, i will do something bad to you
people used to live like that for thousands of years it was even written down in the law they used to have, so it can't be THAT wrong can it?
and btw: light didn't kill people who were innocent.. he only killed people which tried to catch him and people who were declared guilty.
the one who killed random people were the other deathnote user... this is the reason why they found out that there is more than one Kira..he even said that this senseless murder should be stopped (because it gives away a wrong image of kira)
so if kira succeeds in creating a world withought criminalism.. i wouldn't mind it.. and i believe you wouldn't mind it too... but the question is:
is it really the right way? we all know it is impossible to achieve this without the deathnote
and THATS why it is difficult to tell if light is doing the right thing or not... he was the one who recieved the deathnote and he is the only one who could achieve such a world... so can we blame him because he used the chance he was given?
It would take quite a barbarian society to have an insane law like that. It would suggest the sons inherit somehow the sins of their fathers, which is an idea that clashes with all modern sense of justice. If your father kills someone, it doesn't make you guilty of that crime. The son would be a totally innocent bystander.Quote:
Originally Posted by KrayZ33
So... Let me get your stance here right. If a serial killer kills the cops who try to catch him, you think that's ok? Hmm... While getting hurt is a risk in the life of any field duty police officer, it doesn't make it right or justified to kill them just in order to avoid getting caught. Even if you are falsely accused of a crime you aren't allowed to kill the officers who come to arrest you. You are supposed to clear yourself in the court of law (and possibly get compensation for being mistakenly accused). Now, that system isn't perfect but it's a whole lot more perfect than a system where some barely adult arrogant dude sits in his room and decides who gets to live and who needs to die, with no room for appeals.Quote:
and btw: light didn't kill people who were innocent.. he only killed people which tried to catch him and people who were declared guilty.
Edit: Actually I didn't mind the whole plot of the series at all before Light started to kill random people he considered might be a danger to his killing spree. At that point he lost all my sympathies and I began to wait for him to get caught.
Light wanted to save the world, or rath human society. Those who oppose him oppose the rescue of human society, and therefore are just as criminal as murderers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
Really, now? I think he just wanted to kill people he didn't consider worth the right to live or people who were a nuisance to him. If he could use his considerable intelligence to make those deaths puzzling he got all the better kicks out of it. He simply enjoyed the power like any arrogant megalomaniac. However, it's no good even for your own self-respect to say you kill because you enjoy killing so it's better to mask it under a pretense of making a better world and saying the victims deserved to die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
He never did something like that.
He killed murderers and other criminals and those who opposed him.
And how does your statement oppose Kraco's.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
You agree with him he killed those who oppose him, even if they were with the just cause (the guy from the FBI and her girlfrienx ex-FBI, he killed the later with a very specific mindset: pleasure/thrill in the hunt/way of attaining his goal)
At some point he became uterly psychotic.
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by David75
To Light, these FBI-guys werent on the side of justice. HE tried to create a perfect world, and those opposed him.
It was never a case of pleasure/thrill
@Mfauli and KrayZ Light was clearly insane and he did in fact kill people just because he didn't consider them worthy and he what he did was without question wrong, I don't care how you try to justify it.
He didn't just kill criminals he killed anyone who opposed and he didn't do it because of any sense of justice. I'm sure that is what he allowed himself to believe in the beginning but that is not what he was doing, he killed anyone he deemed unworthy and not only did he kill anyone who opposed him but he also killed people who just happened to be in his way whether they were good or not. Light was selfish, he was a cowardly dictator who wanted to rule the world he wasn't doing this to create a utopia he was no different from any other villain we've seen he just happened to be the "protagonist" thats all. What he wanted to do was rule the world and he only allowed those who didn't get in his way to live. The dude was bad, he was a villain plain and simple.
I don't consider myself to be a good person, nor do I consider myself to be a bad person but because I don't experience "guilt" or have a "conscience" and do things that may or may not hurt other people and don't really care whether it does or not people consider me to be bad. I unlike Light however have rules and principals I live by although I can't say I would be any different than Light was if I had that power but the power is what went to his head and made him believe that he was something more than human and could then control, manipulate and judge people and their lives because he was superior to them. Light was no different that someone like Orochimaru or Hitler because he too was trying to create a utopia I guess you think he was right too then.
It you paid attention Light's actions didn’t stop any crime nor does punishing criminals with prison sentences, torture or even death. It’s a part of human nature we are supposed to be evolved but sometimes we act just like animals. Some people just don’t care about what the punishment for their actions are , like Light he didn’t care that he couldn't go to heaven or hell and I suppose since we all know where he would end up he was better off not going. Anyway some people just don’t care whether they will be punished or not and some people will always convince themselves that they will be able to get away with what they did, again like Light.Quote:
well its because you can't see through lights actions...
its difficult for me to explain because my english sucks but i'll give it a try..
what do you think will people do when they know there is someone who punishes you in an instant if you do something like rape/murder and stuff... i believe they wouldn't do it anymore... criminalism like this would simply stop
Yes there have to be sacrifices to create a new order but there has yet to be a better order. With all the sacrifices and all the people who have died throughout history not much has changed. There are just as many criminals now as there ever was if not more, the weak are still being taking advantage of by the strong, the rich and powerful still operate without consequence and no one really cares what you do to others as long as it doesn’t affect them. Really nothing has changed society's ridiculous double standards are still there, people are just ignorant of them.Quote:
and btw
history showed us that there have to be sacrifices to create a new and better order..
you have to kill 100 to safe 100000 sometimes... thats life.
and there is a saying which goes like "kill 1 to scare a hundred" and thats what light does... he kills a few criminals to scare everyone so that they won't become criminals anymore
No I don’t wish they would die, sure I think they should be punished but I don’t view death as punishment. No one knows what happens when you die and eventually we will all die so killing them doesn’t really change anything. Someone like that should be forced to live a long life and be tortured, abused and ridiculed through out and made to suffer for the rest of their lives. Death is an escape, Death is easy, Life is what is hard.Quote:
so i wouldn't say "it was all wrong"... and btw did you never thought of something like "damn this bastard.. i wish he would simply die" after hearing something in the news like "person xyz raped and killed 25 12-17 years old children" and so on? isn't it just natural to think he deserves the death sentence?
Sure and eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth but then everyone would be blind, toothless and dead. You do something bad to me I do something bad to you and then it just keeps escalating and we end up doing worse and worse things to each other. At some point one of us would kill each other and then some one would exact revenge on the murderer and then someone would kill his murderer and on and on and on. The reason people stopped living like that or I should say the reason that it is no longer accepted is because it doesn’t work.Quote:
we used to live with the code ( i m not sure what it is called in english) "eye to eye, tooth to tooth" which simply means if you kill my son, i will kill your son
or
if you do something bad to me, i will do something bad to you
people used to live like that for thousands of years it was even written down in the law they used to have, so it can't be THAT wrong can it?
Uh light did kill innocent people are you kidding me and even those criminals he killed he had no way of knowing whether they were in fact guilty or not sure they were convicted but that doesn’t prove they were guilty. Light only wanted him to stop because he wanted the power to himself, he wanted to rule the world, he wanted to be the one to choose who should live or die, him and him alone. The wrong image of Kira was also all about him, he was Kira, Kira was what he viewed his true self to be some one bringing down the image of who or what he thought himself to be was an insult to him.Quote:
light didn't kill people who were innocent.. he only killed people which tried to catch him and people who were declared guilty.
the one who killed random people were the other deathnote user... this is the reason why they found out that there is more than one Kira..he even said that this senseless murder should be stopped (because it gives away a wrong image of kira)
A world without criminals will never exist atleast not in this life or this reality. Whether he had a death note or not wouldn’t change that all he would do was kill until he felt only the worthy people survived eventually someone sooner or later would commit a crime or do something he deemed unworthy and he would kill them. That would continue until he alone was left because in actuality he was the only person he felt was worthy. He thought that he was better than everyone else and if he was eliminating everyone who was not up to his standard then sooner or later it would be only him.Quote:
so if kira succeeds in creating a world withought criminalism.. i wouldn't mind it.. and i believe you wouldn't mind it too... but the question is:
is it really the right way? we all know it is impossible to achieve this without the deathnote
and THATS why it is difficult to tell if light is doing the right thing or not... he was the one who recieved the deathnote and he is the only one who could achieve such a world... so can we blame him because he used the chance he was given?
God that was long. All of that being said Light is still one of my favorite characters ever, he is endlessly interesting and he is a lot like me.:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
his actions did
----------------------
well this has nothing to do with kira now but i would like to know what you would do because its another ethic question..
an old man in a coma (let him be 80-85), only able to live with the help of machines and drones in his body, probably.. he will never wake up again. Person1: "okay lets cut of the machines and let him rest" Person 2: "oh nooooo you can't do that he still alive!"
the old man probably wants to die by himself (we can't know that) and leeches masses of moneys from other people because the medical treatment is very expensive.
so i ask you would you take him of the net and let him die? i would lol ~~ but well its a bad thing to do in the opinion of many people. well however i gain something positive (and other people too because they don't have to pay high taxes and stuff like that)
i think its the same with kira..he did something bad but actually many people gained from it.. and im not talking about people in a high position, no, normal citizens gained from it because it reduced the criminal rate by a great factor and many people felt save during the time of his "reign"
80-85, yeah well at that age he has already lived a long life so. I don't really care for what is good or bad. Good bad, right or wrong its all relative. I judge whats good or bad based on intentions, actions and outcomes. If you do something that can be viewed as bad but in the end the outcome helps others then it must then be good right but lets say you do the exact same thing but this time it only helps yourself and hurts others then is it bad. Like I said its all relative, whether his actions helped others or not doesn't matter it was still bad. Good people sometimes do bad things and bad people sometimes do good things whether it was their intention or not.
Light's plan always had my support since I don't subscribe to "right or wrong", I subscribe to consequences and results. What messed up Light was his ego. He started out killing the worst, repeat offender, convicted career criminals, then people who had clearly done bad things but had cheated the system in some way. In my opinion a person's life is not worth the suffering that it can inflict upon another person. So killing people who have a demonstrative tendency to break laws and commit violent crimes doesn't really bother me,
Where Light fell short though was in his obsession with being known and recognized and in his inability to suppress his desire to kill anyone those who opposed him. His confrontation with L revealed that he saw what he was doing, at least partially, as a game to amuse himself instead of a pure mission to improve the world. With that he loses his any personal righteousness in my eyes, but his attempt to improve the daily lives of decent everyday people by sowing fear inot the hearts of those who would commit crimes was a good idea in my book. It's too bad that the justice Light felt he embodied was skewed primarily towards himself, and not something abstract like the reduction of suffering.
Light's method did show good results though results and lots of people ended up not committing crimes out of the fear of instant death should they be discovered. Light's idea if properly executed should have reduced crime more than any other action could have, though of course nothing could stop it all together.
Damn, all the talk here got me...
Does anyone know where i can download Death Note now?
I already searched a bit, but the torrent i used stopped at 77% of the first episode.
DVDs are not available in my country, and i plan to buy the series once its available, but i need to watch it now ^^
I alredy saw the whole series, just want to rewatch it now.
Boxtorrents. Well seeded, as expected.
Hm, i can find two torrents there, one doesnt work at all, the other one stops after short time.
Thanks for the link, but im still looking for a working torrent :-(
With 218 seeds as I write this this torrent should work:Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
http://www.mininova.org/tor/863362