-
@Ryll - that is only because Lelouch did not use the power of geass to its full extent on Orange and Viletta. If he ordered them to be his lackeys forever, it should work. We don't know the time limit of Lelouch's geass so far, maybe it does not even have one. The only time it was resisted was by Euphy, but those are exaggerated circumstances. She was also able to only resist the order to kill all Japanese for a short while, and then proceeded to massacre them despite her innocent nature. I am still unsure about her not killing Suzaku, but that was probably more for dramatic effect (to emphasize the dying character's love blah blah) than any real weakness of Lelouch's geass.
I do agree that the emperor's geass is more insidious (since it is really roundabout and deceptive), but I don't think it is more powerful in terms of achieving results in manipulating people.
Even the emperor's geass has its weakness. Even with filling the gap of Nunnaly with Rollo, Lelouch felt a certain dissatisfaction with his life, and while he did not know what it was specifically, he felt there was something off.
Also, on the last point, Lelouch can simply order someone to change permanently, and they would. He simply has not done it before. If he ordered them to think that they were chickens, they should, and if he makes the duration indefinite, it should never wear off (well, as far as we know). I mean, he even ordered someone to "forget", which is technically not something one can do voluntarily, and it succeeded.
EDIT: It has not been elaborated on yet, but I think that the emperor's geass can be used on the same person more than once. This would definitely make it very powerful, even surpassing the command geass just because it is reusable. The inconvenience of being able to use the power only once is really obvious in season 2.
EDIT2: And yeah, I started the shift in topic when I asked if the memories could be falsified, since I simply had practical usage in mind when I proposed the idea.
-
The forgetting seems like a stretch but if you think about it its not all that different from a person who's blocked out a painful event. Consciously they have no recollection of the memories but if you hypnotize them or when they dream the memories can be brought into their minds. Lelouch's forget commands could work on a similar, but stronger principle. By forcing a persons mind to never access certain memories the victim will in effect 'forget' them, however the memories would still exist, and possibly even be reachable to someone else under hypnosis.
It would be very interesting to see the interplay between two users of Lelouch's geass giving conflicting forget and remember orders.
-
Lelouch actually has ordered a permanent change in someone, although it really didn't matter, because he was shot in the head about a minute later. Mao.
At the same time, we can't really say for sure if Lelouch demanding that change would really hold out. Shirley overcame with a little exterior stimulus, just like Lelouch did thanks to C.C. But how much stronger was that simply because she is who she is and is contracted to him? We can't say unless she has to deprogram Kallen or someone else.
With the Emperor, that change would feel natural. The individual would feel more like things had "always been that way."
But once again, we can still say the same about the Emperor's Geass. Lelouch's feelings for Nunnally were strong enough that he felt uneasy about Rollo. But it ended there, he needed C.C.
We're just going to keep going back and forth, so I suppose I'm better off stopping for now. In short, we really just don't know enough about the Emperor's Geass to conclude this discussion one way or the other.
-
Woohoo, I'm just glad we're gonna see Cornelia again.
-
I am not quite sure, but did Shirley overcome the geass Lelouch put on her? She did find it strange that she does not know about Lelouch while everyone thinks she does (heck anyone would), and that made her suspicious, but if everyone else forgot Lelouch (like in the emperor's case) that would not be the case.
I think in order for there to be a decent comparison, it is better to assume that both geass cannot be overcome (because that is the premise of the power, that it is absolute) and last indefinitely (because we simply are not aware of any time limit for either). In this case, Lelouch's geass seems to be more convenient, since it does not require any complex manipulation and a command will suffice.
What I now realize to be an edge for the emperor's geass is the way of simulating behavior. So far, all those who have the command geass cast on them start acting like (freaky) zombies when carrying out the command, as if completely robbed of their wills. This would not be effective for extended espionage missions, since people will notice the change in behavior when the order is being carried out. The emperor's geass would be quite effective in this case (possibly Kallen's case?).
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
I am not quite sure, but did Shirley overcome the geass Lelouch put on her? She did find it strange that she does not know about Lelouch while everyone thinks she does (heck anyone would), and that made her suspicious, but if everyone else forgot Lelouch (like in the emperor's case) that would not be the case.
She didn't overcome it. She forgot everything, and then read a page out of her diary that was torn and thrown aside by Lelouch.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
The emperor's geass would be quite effective in this case (possibly Kallen's case?).
It would be truly effective in similar cases but it shouldn't be in this particular one, because both Lelouch and C.C. know the Emperor's power, and thus they should be very suspicious of Kallen, no matter how she's rescued. That's actually why I said earlier Lelouch could use Kallen's situation to his own advantage if she's indeed returned reprogrammed. Well, assuming she's not returned as a total zombie of no use... Like he could use her to feed false information to the Britannians or if her mission was to capture C.C., he could instead build a trap.
-
But is there any way for them to be absolutely sure that she has been reprogrammed? If the memory alteration is done well, there may even be no way to tell whether she is a spy or not, much less take advantage of it.
-
Then I suppose it's just too bad for Kallen. She is also one of those persons who knew Lelouch was reprogrammed, and thus she knows of the Emperor's power. The lighter the reprogramming, the more she will still think like a BK and understand the dilemma. Unless the new programming is something Lelouch can spot, they will just have to move Kallen to a position of lesser importance as a possible security risk or take a risk and behave as if nothing happened.
Still, it was Kallen's own fault for not checking the energy levels of her knightmere before taking off. She got captured so easily because of her own stupidity. If she has to pay the price, she has got nobody else to blame. Except the despicable Xingke who switches sides every hour. Lelouch should have geassed the dude to stay on one side for the rest of his undoubtly short lifespan.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
She didn't overcome it. She forgot everything, and then read a page out of her diary that was torn and thrown aside by Lelouch.
That page was actually torn and thrown aside by herself.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by animus
That page was actually torn and thrown aside by herself.
I stand corrected then.
-
Continuing from these two posts:
http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread...9&postcount=50....I edited it just as you posted, shinta
http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread...0&postcount=51
At first, I was sure that C.C. made her comment "Finally, my name is called" in response to her name being called of course. From what I saw, she muttered something, Lelouch bent over to hear, and a drop of water fell. Assuming Lelouch was listening and not speaking, and there was no one in the cave, I concluded that it must have been the sound of the water dropping.
When I rewatched it, I realized that she might have muttered something for Lelouch to lean closer like that, and that her real name, whatever it is, must have been of some significance, since Lelouch reeled back in shock. Whether it was this event, or simply the trust developed from their conversation, or both that contributed to closeness of their bond hereafter, I cannot conclude.
-
Code Geass R2: Episode 12
-
-
-
-
The immortal Orange-kun strikes back. I wonder just what that dude is doing. The Emperor is a funny man to send the dude there even knowing he will undo his own geass effects as well. Although it's not like it would really matter worth a single yen to the Emperor what happens at one school over in Area 11... It should make things a lot more interesting in any case. This combined with the British plans for China, and Lelouch will have his hands full. I just hope the next eps won't be like this one; basically 20 minutes of hollow comedy and 1 minute of real plot advancing material.
Lelouch should get China back to its feet asap and ally with the EU to have a good solid front against Britannia OR have some really devious plans to undermine Britannia from within. He can't be fooling around in the school doing nothing constructive.
At least Kallen got a nicer visitor instead of a chief torturer...
-
Innocence can be most cruel. Look at what it did to Lelouch.
-
I really hope this doesnt mean that Milly wont be part of the series anymore.
-
Funny episode? Indeed.
90% useless? Indeed
Lack of real plot and Kallen made it a not so great episode. It may have worked on Season 1... but here? Not much.
At least seeing Nunnally with Kallen AND the final scene makes it worth the wait of one week. Holy heck, the final scene was excellent. Blue inverted geass... and the next episode preview shows Lelouch and Orange-kun together... so I guess this geass canceller will be the Mao of this season.
