Kakashi : Bad Teacher?

The fact Kakashi no doubt tried his best doesn't make him an excellent teacher. It made him a respectable teacher, but even a totally average and adequate teacher can be respectable as long as he gives all he has got to the teaching.

Kakashi pushed Naruto to somebody like Ebisu, who is a total loser and a fool. This is the man who failed miserably to teach and handle Konohamaru. An idiot like Naruto gave Konohamaru more valuable lessons than Ebisu. This reveals one thing: When things got serious, Kakashi abandoned Naruto and concentrated on saving and helping Sasuke. This is pretty natural considering how similar they are, like has been said many times in the previous posts.

However, this fits Kakashi's character perfectly as well as the nature of the series (well, before the fillers started, anyway). It doesn't make him an excellent teacher but it does make him a stern and succesful ninja. Happenings like this are what make Naruto the series it is.

Actually, i think that kakashi did the right thing by sending naruto to ebisu, cause he though naruto could use some basic chakra control, wich he truly did, and don`t forget ebisu IS a jounin and used to teaching

Naruto needed more fixing of the seal Orochimaru had messed up than any basic training the closet pervert could have given. The thing is that they were preparing for the Chuunin exam. It's doubtful just basic chakra training could have helped Naruto under those circumstances. Since we know Kakashi is no newbie in sealing techniques, we can also assume he might have noticed Naruto isn't quite alright if Sasuke hadn't drawn all his attention.

Kakashi is more like a practical operative than a teacher. The decisions he made back then were like those one would make during a mission somewhere out there. It can't be denied that Kakashi was an excellent teacher for Sasuke. But for Naruto the teacher probably needs to be as crazy as the student, not so controlled as Kakashi, and so Jiraya makes a better tutor. Ebisu would have been totally out of his league.

Kudos to dragonrage.

*raises glass*

Well like Kraco said b4 sasuke is more like kakaski and naruto is just a handfull in general and since ebisu had "tired" to teach konohamaru he has experiance dealing with students who can be a handfull. At anyrate kakashi took sasuke in my opinion because he knew he could teach sasuke what he need since he understands sasuke.

dragonrage's posts on this are about as good of a defense of Kakashi you could want.

I don't really think he's the best teacher ever. In fact, as a regular teacher he is horrible. A Gai or even a Kurenai would make a better teacher for typical ninja teams.

But Team 7 is different. (hence they needed a different type of teacher)

Yes all 3 had some flaws, but when you look at them they're the strongest team, no question asked, in terms of future potential.

Sakura: I hate her, but the girl is smart and level-headed. Her getting high grades and having a great memory should have indicated that she'd be the eventual leader of the team, as she'd have the best head for tactics and decision making. She would also work as a leader because she's her intelligence and knowledge would actually force the other two (stubborn and often at odds) members to respect her decisions and not fight between themselves for role of team leader.

Sasuke: Graduated top of his class. One of (3? 4?) in the world who can use Sharingan.

Naruto: Bottom of the barrel, but he's got a fucking demon inside of him! Also an obvious 'rally point' for the others, his strong personality giving others energy and hope.

So with these three components their potential would be wasted unless you gave them someone who excelled in teaching 'prodigy geniuses'. Kakashi's past is still relatively unknown at this point in the anime, so it's hard to see why he'd be the best fit for Team 7's leader.

The problem is that Kakashi FAILED, big time, with Team 7. I'm absolutely convinced that the biggest reason for his failure was not that he spent too much time focusing on Sasuke, but not enough time focusing on Sakura!

Sakura, especially in the Team 7 I laid out above, was at the core. She had a lot of flaws to overcome, and Kakashi really never helped her with any of them. Heck, the only thing he really taught them (besides the 'teamwork' first test, which was really already ingrained in them) was Chakra control, which she was already good at.

By going off as a 'solo instructor' for Sasuke, Kakashi made a good move and a bad move. What was good was that it let Naruto meet Jiraiya (which Kakashi has to chalk up to sheer luck). What was bad was that it furthered the rift between Naruto and Sasuke and lift Sakura in total limbo. By doing that Kakashi basically turned his back on the first thing he ever taught them 'team over self'.

The rest is history. After the Chuunin Exam and all those events, Kakashi didn't really try to restore any sense of 'team' in his group. I sorta doubt that he could at that point. Sasuke became consumed by his desire for revenge, Naruto was still being Naruto, and Sakura wasn't even nearly strong enough to hold the team together, despite her best efforts.

So, did Kakashi fail as a teacher? Yes, obviously.
Does that mean he's a bad teacher? ... Well only time will tell...
(You ask my opinion, and it is a strong Yes, as his contradicting his own teachings is probably the biggest no-no a teacher can do, neglecting particular students for others being the second)

Kakashi isn;t a teacher.. he was just the leader of their team... The small amounts of Traning that Kakashi ptu them through were always sucessful ... but he is more of a put them in the situation and let them grow by themselves kinda teacher.

Kakshi's "give some guidance but let people do things on their own to realize their own full potential" style is obvious by the way Kakashi faked his own death inthe first "real ninja" ight at the begingg of the wave country arc, and by how he entered the team in the chunin exam.

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I don't really think he's the best teacher ever. In fact, as a regular teacher he is horrible. A Gai or even a Kurenai would make a better teacher for typical ninja teams.

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@masamuneehs.... Gai focuses all of his attention on Lee and ignore the others, the only reason he really teaches them anything as a group is to push Lee harder. Other than that they are basically alone.

Kurenai.....is a new jounin and doesn't seem that powerful since all we have seen from her is illusion techniques, but she did survive the attach on the village so gotta give her some props. But i do like her as a teacher though, this may show that she is weak, but when Shino was training for the Churnin finally test, they all help out.... which is cool.

I didn't say that he was the best teacher, i said he was excetional... atleast for this group... can you really point out any other teacher that could have really, push them thus far. Most teachers and people resented Naruto, or not qualified to deal with the issuses of the group. Sasuke needed someone to teach him about the sharingan, Sakura just wanted to be in the group with Sasuke nothing else, but she ended up with a greater purpose and did alot of growing up in the process. I think that is all he could have done for her. Naruto just wanted the village to recognize him, specifically Sasuke, and we all know that was accomplished. It gave him somewhere to belong to, a family if you will.

The group had to break up if it didn't the story wouldn't be interesting so you really can't blame that on him..... There were alot of outside influences that is gonna determine their future, and they are destined for greatness, that we all know. He play his part and nothing more, he gave them what was need to proceed onto the next stage in life. Some needed training, others, time or just someone else. In Naruto's case, Jariya who again trained the foruth and most likely knows more are the seal and Naruto than anyone else, thus being the best person to help him achieve the other stage.

Anyways i say he did his job the best he could.... and was the best person for the group.

@ubersuperhacker. have you really been watching the series, because all journins are teachers. If they weren't where or who would you learn the basic techniques from.... But i do agree with you, on the given them their own space to grow thing, and that show that he is a teacher and not just a leader.

Edit: @masamuneehs... the only reason that they pass the first test is because Sakura and Sasuke were smart enough to firgure out the lesson that he was trying to teach them. But at the end they really were team mates, family or Nakama if you will. That is why Naruto was so influencial on Sasuke, and that was recognized by Sakura as well.

dragonrage i still totally disagree with you:
the same way Gai focused on Lee Kakashi focused on Sasuke

Kurenai's team: still intact.

Sakura just wanting to be in Sasuke's group: But what about Ino? Same deal, really, so it doesn't make Sakura special. In fact, if anything, putting two people in the same group where one of them would have that kind of attachment to the other is a flaw in composition.

Kakashi was an OK teacher if you just want to say he furthered the characters' (sasuke's) abilities. But he almost totally neglected 2 out of 3 of his students. that is not the mark of a good teacher.

finally, i find the fact that he initially stressed teamwork, but never really cultivated it, to be his biggest failure as a teacher. i dont think anyone can argue with that.

you can't just say: Team 7 had to break up for the story to be the way it is. That's BS as far as excusing Kakashi from his duties goes. If anything, there should be more in the story about how Kakashi's failure with such an exceptional group is a big deal, or at least a big evaluation of his character. it's totally been downplayed to preserve his character as the 'cool, mysterious, older ninja'

Team 7 was gonna break up anyways, because of Sasuke's quest to kill his older brother. Come on, and the fact the the Orichmaru wanted Sasuke sharingan didn't help., and Itachi's group wanted Naruto. Are you telling me Kakashi or anyone else could have stopped the break up. And that someone other than Jariya could have prepared Naruto better to face the upcoming battles.

Yes Kakashi focused more on Sasuke than the other two, but he didn't just ignore the other two. We all know that Sakura and Naruto were immature, Sasuke was the only real somwhat mature one. Naruto and Sasuke need to grow up alittle that is all i think he could have taught them. Naruto potential was already growing beacuse he spent so much time with Sasuke, he went from a coward to a ninja because of being in group 7.

His name is the copy ninja. The only original technique he has is Raikiki(chidori). The technigue itself needs speed, chakra control and having the sharingan doesn't hurt. What else could he have taught Naruto and Sakura than chakra control, specifically Naruto lacking mostly in basics, he told him to master the basics and he will become stronger. And he recognized his growth as a ninja and a person.

Oh sakura and Ino are best friends but they are not the same. Sakura is brilliant, hard working and a genius when it comes to chakra control. The brilliant part was established by Ino herself during the first Churnin exam, chakra control was establish by Ebisu and Kakashi, and the rest by Tsunade when she cleared the 7th stage i think, of the medical training. Remember Tsunade said that something else was need to be a mediacal ninja "desperation" and she said Sakura had it.

You also stated Gai did the same thing with Lee so how does that make him a better teacher. Gai was traning Lee to beat Neji. Did Kakashi do that? He was teaching him so that he could protect his friends and fill that hole that was that was made when lost of his family.

What else could have been taught to Naruto by any other of the Journins, even Ebisu admitted that Jariya was a better teacher for Naruto.

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Originally Posted by dragonrage

Team 7 was gonna break up anyways, because of Sasuke's quest to kill his older brother. Come on, and the fact the the Orichmaru wanted Sasuke sharingan didn't help., and Itachi's group wanted Naruto.

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That sounds suspiciously like you think the people in charge would have known beforehand Sasuke will hit the road soon and Naruto will have his hands full simply not to get kidnapped by a group of criminals. And so such a team was formed to last for a short while, like for theatrics. Maybe they added Sakura in as a glue, because nothing could separate her from Sasuke and nothing could separate Naruto from her. A sacrificed group, with Kakashi as a leader, because a man who has previously experienced losing all his friends might be able to cope with it yet again. Well, that's quite cold thinking, but maybe it's true.

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Originally Posted by dragonrage

Yes Kakashi focused more on Sasuke than the other two, but he didn't just ignore the other two. We all know that Sakura and Naruto were immature, Sasuke was the only real somwhat mature one.

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I don't know if Sasuke was that mature. He just had nothing but the revenge on his mind, and kept himself distant from everybody because of that. Well, I suppose it's kind of maturity to understand that he would just hurt himself and others if he made any friends, and then suddenly disappeared on his path of vengeance.

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Originally Posted by dragonrage

What else could he have taught Naruto and Sakura than chakra control, specifically Naruto lacking mostly in basics, he told him to master the basics and he will become stronger. And he recognized his growth as a ninja and a person.

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I didn't actually have so big problems with this issue before the last phase of the Chuunin exam. The single and only thing that bothers me is that he suddenly didn't anymore care how Naruto would fare in the exam, as long as Sasuke had a chance. Maybe you are right about the fact that he couldn't have taught Naruto anything really valuable (in the exam), but if you think about it, such thinking would make Kakashi quite a low-level ninja of few means.

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Originally Posted by dragonrage

You also stated Gai did the same thing with Lee so how does that make him a better teacher. Gai was traning Lee to beat Neji. Did Kakashi do that? He was teaching him so that he could protect his friends and fill that hole that was that was made when lost of his family.

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That was just a nice speech. And I very much doubt Gai's real intention was to train Lee so that his student's only purpose in life was to beat the ninjas of his own village. Whatever gives more motivation to the student, with no real harm. Sasuke kept telling himself he was only interested in his revenge, and thus it was wise to try to make him accept the fact he also cares for the wellbeing of his friends. Lee had no such mental problems, so he could be told to directly compete with somebody else, because in the end that wouldn't mean anything but competition when it's appropriate, otherwise normal cooperation (as we have seen). If Kakashi had told Sasuke to never let Naruto close the power gap between them and always be more powerful than Naruto, what kind of dynamics would the misfortunate team have had?

OWNED,big time damn.
I dont know wut to add to that since its perfectly been written.
I dont hate kakashi, and I am not saying he didnt care about naruto, but he has failed as a teacher.

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Originally Posted by Kraco

That sounds suspiciously like you think the people in charge would have known beforehand Sasuke will hit the road soon and Naruto will have his hands full simply not to get kidnapped by a group of criminals. And so such a team was formed to last for a short while, like for theatrics. Maybe they added Sakura in as a glue, because nothing could separate her from Sasuke and nothing could separate Naruto from her. A sacrificed group, with Kakashi as a leader, because a man who has previously experienced losing all his friends might be able to cope with it yet again. Well, that's quite cold thinking, but maybe it's true.

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They did have some idea that he was gonna leave. Even he told Kakashi that the reason he wants to become a ninja is because there is a man that he wants to kill. And having your entire clan whiped out by your brother, does make you vengeful. For him to achieve that goal he had to leave sometime. They didn't know about the situation with Naruto, but Jiraya did. I think that is the only reason why they didn't know is because they could never find him.

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Originally Posted by Kraco

I don't know if Sasuke was that mature. He just had nothing but the revenge on his mind, and kept himself distant from everybody because of that. Well, I suppose it's kind of maturity to understand that he would just hurt himself and others if he made any friends, and then suddenly disappeared on his path of vengeance.

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Well you sorta prove my point. For someone to have revenge on his mind some level maturity have to be there; for planning, achieving and excuting. Do you not agree? He kept to himself because he didn't want to get too attached to anyone and be distracted from his main objective.

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Originally Posted by Kraco

That was just a nice speech. And I very much doubt Gai's real intention was to train Lee so that his student's only purpose in life was to beat the ninjas of his own village. Whatever gives more motivation to the student, with no real harm. Sasuke kept telling himself he was only interested in his revenge, and thus it was wise to try to make him accept the fact he also cares for the wellbeing of his friends. Lee had no such mental problems, so he could be told to directly compete with somebody else, because in the end that wouldn't mean anything but competition when it's appropriate, otherwise normal cooperation (as we have seen). If Kakashi had told Sasuke to never let Naruto close the power gap between them and always be more powerful than Naruto, what kind of dynamics would the misfortunate team have had?

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It wasn't his only purpose in life, but it was his way to achieve it. He wanted to be an excepitonal ninja and protect the people important to him. And it wasn't just a nice speech remember after he had beaten Sasuke he revealed that in all his fights with Neji he had never won a single one. And when he fought Gara he look and Neji and said to himself this was the technique that i was finally gonna beat you with ( or something to that extent), who trained him to unlocked the gates? Kakashi knew that Naruto would have gotten stronger anyways all he needed to learn was control. Even in the academy, he displayed an enormous amount of chakra but no control, because of that enormous he was able to use the Kage bunshin....I agree with you that Sasuke needed to learn how to reconnect with other people and just not block them out. But did he do that I mean. Sasuke started to care about Sakura and Naruto and wanted to protect them. He cared so much that he couldn't kill Naruto, although it would have given him the mangekio sharingan(sp). He chose to go to Orichmaru instead of killing his best friend. Why you might ask. Remember the curse seal worked against him, making it very hard to use his own power and preventing further growth so he has to rely on it..... So while Naruto was growing it looked like he was standing still. The curse seal was the only power that he could use to achieve his goal and Orichmaru was the only one who could show him how to use it.


@Naruto_RNG.... If you truly understand a discussion such as this one, then maybe you would understand who really got "owned" as you say. If you don't already, I hope you do someday or you will remain in the dark.

I agree that Kakashi kind of sucks as a teacher, it's not as if he has any expirience of teaching...but he did his best regardless. He had his students forcibly entered in the chuunin exam and gave them opportunities to get stronger by themselves.´
He didn't teach them killer jutsus because kids shouldn't have too much power. He taught one to Sasuke, who had already hit a treshold in power and needed good techniques to get stronger. And by making him stronger, Kakashi hoped that he'd stay in the village. That was a mistake, since the self-righteous little brat left anyway.

About Gai, I can't see how he could effectively train Neji or Tenten. Their fighting styles are too different.

It's hard to teach the "killer jutsus" when the students don't even know the basics.

well i kind of don't see them as teacher's.i see each of them kinda like moderater's who take them on missions and make sure the job is done and giving advice only if needed.i dont see them as teacher's because they dont really teach them new things from what we've seen only gai and kakashi taught lee and sasuke anything the rest of them learned there moves on there own or from there family skills or natural abilities.ohhh i forgot naruto but he is a special case and learned from a sanin because of future danger with itahic group.

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Originally Posted by Budweineken

It's hard to teach the "killer jutsus" when the students don't even know the basics.

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Although that certainly could be true from a theoretical point of view, it isn't necessarily true. It's reasonable to believe the power of any lethal technique depends on the particular technical skill, the level of chakra (raw power), and how well the technique is applied in practice. And it's only a sum of those, so if any individual aspect is raised high enough, it will compensate weaknesses in the other aspects.

It needs to be remember these people are basically soldiers, in the end. Perhaps like special forces soldiers. They need killer jutsus. No matter how much the leaders try to control the environment and deal out missions of varying difficulty levels, they will get attacked with killing intentions even at their own doorsteps. So, they should be taught lethal jutsus even if they can't perfectly control them (like Naruto and the rasengan). It could decide between life and death in the real situation.

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Originally Posted by dragonrage

@Naruto_RNG.... If you truly understand a discussion such as this one, then maybe you would understand who really got "owned" as you say. If you don't already, I hope you do someday or you will remain in the dark.

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Although it really serves no purpose, but I'll just note that my previous post didn't contradict that much because I didn't even disagree that much. I just pointed out some things (whether I even believed in them myself or not) out of purely academic interest. So, nobody got owned...

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Originally Posted by Kraco

Although it really serves no purpose, but I'll just note that my previous post didn't contradict that much because I didn't even disagree that much. I just pointed out some things (whether I even believed in them myself or not) out of purely academic interest. So, nobody got owned...

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my point exactly, i knew you would get it. I was wondering if he did.

@dragonrage
dude your asking me if I get the topic?
it asked if kakashi is a good teacher or not? we're not saying he is a bad ninja.
In your opinion should a teacher leave his other students and concentrate on one just because they're alike? just answer this question for me. thx

lol yer i rekon..perveted kid..altho maybe i think jiraiya cud teach konohamaru to be lyk him