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Thats only possible if we assume Sasori is a complete moron though. Sasori would have eithe sent one of his own people who he knew he could trust, or put that mind control Jutsu of his on one of Oro's guys. I highly doubt Oro could just send someone in there and expect some new guy to be the one that gets sent off to spy on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Narasho
Just watched episodes 32-37 in one go. I have to say that the anime has really improved from the whole botched Deidara/Sasori arc. Even the end of that arc was very well done, with a lot of emotion being conveyed and all.
As for the current arc, I am enjoying the anime version more than the manga. There's just a whole lot of things that you can understand in the anime with things such as the tone of voice and music that you can just not pick up on in the mannga. I'm looking forward to what shoul be coming up soon, as the anime is now as a pleasant surprise running along the course of the manga with no filler content thrown in amongst the recent eps.
It's not as such totally impossible. Sasori would never be stupid enough but he could, just like Oro, play the game. So, we could have spy that's doubly compromised, getting and conveying calculated information both ways. Of course this scenario would assume the spy himself would need to be a quite moron to tolerate such a game, and thus it would mean he couldn't be anybody we really know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash
Sasori didn't exactly strike me as the type to play games though. There wouldn't have been any benefit in doing that for him. The only real option in that scenario, like i mentioned before, would be that he puts that mind control Jutsu on the guy and sends him back. The flip side of that is that Oro was his former partner and probably knows about that particular technique. So if Oro wanted someone to spy on Akatsuki, i'd say Sasori is the least likely candidate for him to send someone to.
You are absolutely...100%...confusing Kabuto with Kimmimaru.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
Nothing the show has ever shown us has ever shown ANY of what you described. In fact, when Orochimaru isn't standing right next to him, Kabuto is usually considering betraying him(like when he was considering killing Sasuke to ruin that particular plot of Orochimaru). The only times Kabuto acts like a loyal, obedient servant who only wants to help Orochimaru...is when Orochimaru is WITH him, which, der, he's a spy, he's fucking faking.
There's some reason why Kabuto serves Orochimaru, and it isn't because he loves him. It's either because Sasori wanted him too, or because Orochimaru has something he wants. Whatever it is, the show hasn't revealed it yet.
DarthEnder you are completely wrong my friend the one who is confused is you. I don't think you know anything about Kabuto at all. There is plenty of evidence to support everything I have said about Kabuto but instead of having some pointless argument with you, you'll just have to wait and see because I know I am right.
I think, however, that Kabuto is a character that it very open to interpretation and that we don't actually even know his motives ourselves.
As proven by these discussions.
@ first i want to say that this argument is not pointless, why do you think you are posting in a forum? its because you want to have an argument and it can't be pointless when you have enough material to use.
no there were not... there were moments when Kabuto obviously hates Oro and there were moments when he talked to him as a good friend/ servant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
these moments hower could be simply faked... Kabuto did also speak highly of naruto sometimes, however in the Sannin arc. we all saw that he thinks naruto is a kid and stupid..
sooo how would you act in front of a person which could kill you in an instant? i would be very polite and act like i like him..but in fact i would think the opposite..
the conversation during the Chuunin exams showed that Kabuto has something in mind...didnt you see his face?i mean why would he be so extremly scared when Oro told him that he saw through him and he has to kill Sasuke if he wishes to stop him now...lucky for him Oro was only kidding
the reason why Kabuto serves Oro is simply power i believe...
He can test his Medical jutsus on test-subjects which is forbidden in other ninja-villages..
so he gains something from him and since he can't go elsewhere (he's a spy!!!! and a missing-nin) he stays with Oro.
In addition to that:
Kabuto isn't so stupid like Naruto or even Sasuke who would simply die for their dreams.
he believes that when he dies his dreams and goals won't come true, so there is no point in fighting against Oro directly but i still don't think he lives happily as a servant (even though he is a high-ranked one). I believe if someone would give him more than Oro does he would simply betray him and the only persons which are strong enough to make Kabuto feel like its worth betraying Oro are the people from Akatsuki..
However... Kabuto beeing a double-agent does make most sense i think.
i just wanted to point out that there IS the possibility Kabuto does not "love" or even "like" Oro. He is not a person which is worth fighting for if you gain nothing from it, is he?
everyone of his servants seeked power or help in the fillers and in the real episodes. that was the only reason why they actually fought! so why would kabuto do otherwise? he doesn't act like someone who has "so much respect" (remember when he fought against kakashi or the Sannin), he has absolutely no reason to "love" Oro or feel respect towards him (only towards his powers maybe, which would mean that he fears him ~~)
to sum this up, its more "fear" than "love"
Normally, a person who's unloyal to you doesn't need to act that way unless he has a better person to turn to. Oro is a pretty powerful person to serve, so there wasn't a NEED for Kabuto to do anything suspicious or unloyal. When Oro lost his arms, however, he kept by him. Now that either indicates that he is truely loyal to Orochimaru, or that he just think he's still the best person to serve for the time being. Being by his side at a time like that also deepens whatever trust Oro may have had in him, which is a perfect tactic for a spy. And besides, we only know Sasori wanted to spy on Oro, he hadn't neccessarily told his spy to do anything hostile or destructive, just pass on info.
How loyal was that Sand guy (was it Yuri?) before his memory unlocked? Who's to say Sasori doesn't lock the spy's Kabuto's memory everytime he goes back, so he's completely loyal, only to have it unlocked and meet Sasori again and again.
I believe Kabuto's probably the spy to be honest, but I'm simply listing the possibility and circumstances under which that can happen.
edit: btw, there some post earlier about Sai being coloured when he got out of the hot bath. He was in there as long as Naruto, who was completely red. That little bit of skin colour may be as red as he can get.
well its not like Oro was weak when he has lost his arms, he could even defeat(!) a *nearly* fully recovered Jiraya (i don't know how to spell him :P)
and like i said before, where else should he go? and what would he gain from killing Oro? nothing... at least not now. its not like he can rule a whole country on his own or gain power this way. so i think its more like he has nowhere to go to or noone to turn to.
@ KrayZ33: You must really be crazy. How can you say that no one working for Oro loved him and that they were only there for power, remember Kimimaro and Kabuto definitely loves Oro. Yes there are other reasons why he is with Oro but the main one is because he likes him and his ideals and that is why he is working to help him.
I never thought Kabuto would love Oro. I think he just deeply respects him as an ultimate author of jutsu, many of them related closely to the medical sciences in which Kabuto himself excels. I deem he just wants to learn anything he can from Orochimaru, but in order to do that he needs to to be a more or less useful henchman.
Your right, and neither do you, because they haven't told us anything about Kabuto. But unlike you, I'm not just making shit up to fill in what I THINK the character is about. I'm talking about things that actually happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
Which you can't possibly unless you're some kind of manga reader. In which case, it's the mods place to deal with you, not mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
-Pretty long post, read bitches:p
Wow dude. You really shoudn't be talking about stuff you know nothing about. There is evidence to support everything I've said.
Why don't you try and actually contribute something to the discussion instead of trying to attack me. That is just sad.
Are you purposely trying to start something with me, you're like a damn shadow following me everywhere?
The thing is that Kabuto seems to be operating of his own free will. If you remember that incident when Oro was in the shower and Kabuto was arguing with him, Kabuto was the one who made the prisoners fight so that Orochimaru would take over the body of the survivor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
Kabuto is also the one who sent Kimimaro to get Sasuke and during the early part of the series such as when Kabuto was talking to Baki or when he failed to capture Sasuke and when Oro sent him to eliminate Shizune. It shows that unlike Oro's other subordinates Kabuto has a lot of free will and that Oro trusts him more than anyone else so he isn't really a 'henchman'.
True if Kabuto intended to betray him or if Sasori had really intended for Kabuto to try and kill Oro there were many chances. If he wanted Orochimaru dead then the situation I mentioned above when Oro was waiting for Sasuke would've been the perfect chance. Oro was helpless and :eek: naked in the shower if Kabuto intended to kill him that would've been the perfect chance. He didn't even have to attack him directly all he had to do was to kill the host body that Oro would've used then he would've been dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
There were also two opportunities during the Sannin battle. The first was when Tsunade attempted to use that medical jutsu to kill Orochimaru or during the battle itself because I would imagine that if Kabuto wasn't there to use the summoning jutsu Oro would've been killed.
show me "the evidence" i can't find it
he never said "i luv ya" or something like that
and you know, his polite behavior is not a proof...
No he didn't directly come out and say I love you. I think Sakura is the only 'ninja' soft enough to ever say something like that well at least she was. Anyway if you remember when Kabuto first revealed himself as one of Oro's henchmen and his language and actions in every appearance he has made since then, its pretty clear. Just rewatch the sannin battle, his little chats during the Sasuke rescue arc and during the chunin exam arc and you will understand my argument.
Yes, Kabuto's polite behaviour isn't proof of anything Baki, Itachi, Kisame and Orochimaru were all very polite. I like that a polite enemy.
there might not be any evidence that Kabuto, like Kimimaro and Haku, is in love with his evil boss. Hell, even Kimimaro never said that he loved Orochimaru (but I still think you're blind and dumb and/or homophobic if you can't at least understand why some people say that Kimi's affection for Oro was tinged with love).
But I do think Kabuto is extremely loyal to Orochimaru. He saved his life when Tsunade feigned healing him. He helps with tons of body transfers. He works almost like Orochimaru's personal doctor at times. I mean, Kabuto didn't even blink when Oro's plan to destroy Konoha failed and Oro was left crippled, let alone act like he wanted to abandon him.
There was that episode where Kabuto went to kill Sasuke. But he didn't. And, when you ask yourself WHY Kabuto would have gone and killed Sasuke, what reasons can you come up with? That he wanted to thwart Orochimaru's plan? No, he would have screwed him over at some other crucial point.
The only reason I could ever think of for why Kabuto wanted to kill Sasuke is that he was afraid Sasuke would replace him as Oro's right hand man. He couldn't stand how obsessed Orochimaru was with Sasuke. And, if you care to examine that line of thought further, it's not hard to take Kabuto's paranoid-jealousy of Sasuke to an extension of his feelings toward Orochimaru.
But, this all being said, I can't see why the spy couldn't be Kabuto. Remember, Yuura was absolutely loyal to the Sand, without even the faintest ideas of treachery, but Sasori's jutsu took control of him anyway. It's not like Sasori's spy is something people choose to be...
I'm not sure if you were agreeing with me or not, but basically I'm not disagreeing with what you wrote there. The things is, he can't act like a really adoring goon because I doubt Oro would teach anything really fancy to such a person. He needs to show initiative of his own for Oro to recognize his potential and ambitions (usefulness for anything more than carrying out simple orders) - if Oro even has an intention to teach anyone anything at all. However, considering Oro's goal is to learn all the jutsu around, you might assume he wouldn't diss Kabuto's wish to learn new skills as well. And being as tough, clever and skillful as Kabuto is, I very much doubt he would stick around unless he aims to get something out of it - no matter how much he respects Oro; he hasn't given me the kind of impression he would waste his life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
Quote:
Originally Posted by masamuneehs
i never said kimi was not fighting for Oro i have to admit that i forgot him.. the sentence "i luv ya" was just a joke... sorry if that wasn't clear...i know that he is the same as Haku.
abdula uses the word "evidence" but there IS NO !!EVIDENCE!! he's speculating like everyone else but unlike him we don't say "you are all wrong and i m right"
or at least i don't
and i did explain why kabuto did not leave Oro's side and why he is so polite and helpfull however these were only speculations, too.
its just stupid of you guys to act like its a well known fact that kabuto likes Oro, but thats simply not true and THAT is what i wanted to point out with my posting.. i wanted to show you some arguments of the opposite side but all you guys did say "they are wrong, i m right" (ok the only one who did that abdula but still its freaking me out and some of the others too...)
you are simply ignoring all of my arguments (and don't come to me and say that there arn't any... there is plenty of stuff that is worth thinking about
@Masa: There is no reason why Kabuto can't be the spy but no one is saying that from what we've seen of Sasori's jutsu almost anyone under Oro could be the spy. However its likely that Sasori would target as high ranking or trustworthy a person as possible like he did in the sand village with Yura no one suspected him of being a spy, thus Kabuto.
There really was no other reason for Kabuto to kill Sasuke other than jealousy, Oro knew that and that is why he was messing with Kabuto's head something he does with everyone. I don't know why some other people would think that Kabuto wanted to betray him. Oro's obsession with Sasuke was crazy I remember him constantly talking about wanting Sasuke's body giving me the creeps.
@ Kraco: Kabuto has shown plenty of initiative in the past maybe not ambitions but initiative. I don't think Oro has any intentions of teaching anyone anything unless its for his own benefit and since Kabuto was constantly compared to Kakashi I really don't think that only would necessarily have to teach him anything. He is already well trained and Tsunade herself said that Kabuto's jutsus are better than her own were when she was in her prime.
@KrayZ33: Sorry if it appears that everyone is ignoring you because I don't think anyone is certainly not me. You are right everyone is speculating but even speculations aren't without supporting evidence. That being said it doesn't really matter what happened in the past because Kishi could change everything at a moments notice. I feel honored that you mentioned my name so many times.:p