And your eyes see wrong, and your brain thinks wrong.
Sigh.
Next thing I know, you'll say the earth is flat because you haven't actually seen it from space with your own eyes.
Printable View
And your eyes see wrong, and your brain thinks wrong.
Sigh.
Next thing I know, you'll say the earth is flat because you haven't actually seen it from space with your own eyes.
Convincing argument. Maybe, shinta, you could try articulate in your own words what makes OPM a parody ASIDE the ridiculous origins of Saitamaīs power. And keep in mind that I know a lot of shounen-anime that arenīt labeld parody, so donīt argue with "that guy has balls for a chin!".
I already said my piece in my previous posts. Read them again instead of skimming them this time.
And here's a crutch for you.
Let's expand on shinta reference to Speed-o`-Sound Sonic losing to Saitama. Or that episode.
Bunch of terrorists in super suits running around...and oh yeah, their character design in intended to look like DBZ aliens. Saitama starts to get ready to go after them....but not because they're terrorists. Because they also have shaved heads, and it will look bad for him.
Mumen Rider shows up, in typical super hero costume (like Kamen Rider). The people's reaction is that their hero has arrived to save them. He gets defeated out of frame...single punch to the face likely, bleeding on the pavement.
Speed-o`-Sound Sonic so super fast. He's so fast, that no one can even see him. He beheads the terrorists one by one.
Saitama appears, declares his disappointment, but they fight, and Saitama ends up sympathizing with the guy and lets him flee.
Speed-o`-Sound Sonic finds Saitama, misunderstands and thinks he's with the terrorists.
They fight, Speed-o`-Sound Sonic's ego starts flaring, Saitama shows him repeatedly that he's faster just by countering him. Saitama discusses Speed-o`-Sound Sonic's "innocent smile" proving he's a good guy (16:51 on HS ver).
Instead of being the weaker party and fighting Speed-o`-Sound Sonic intelligently, using a secret weapon, a new form of his power, or with a trick, Saitama just beats him with pure speed of his own. And holds up his fist, which Speed-o`-Sound Sonic promptly runs into with his balls. Saitama explains what just transpired was an accident.
Speed-o`-Sound Sonic poses exactly like a humiliated tsundere, declaring that the next time they meet, it things will go differently (It's pretty much the exact line tsundere girls' use too).
Genos and Saitama discuss what a stupid name "Speed-o`-Sound Sonic" is. Then Genos realizes that Saitama isn't in the official hero registry. Saitama, who has been trying to be a hero for some time, doesn't know that such a thing existed.
---
Yeah, none of that is parody at all. Clearly "typical shonen."
The names of most of the characters alone screams parody.
OPM = not a parody... I've heard it all now.
hmmm, that means:
Kick-ass = super heavy, honest superhero vs. bad guy story that is supposed to teach us about courage and love.
Honestly, if you don't see OPM as a parody, you might as well say that you don't know or understand what a parody is. There is like...no room, at all, for discussion about that matter. A parody can have a story too, you know.
I don't even... hmpf.
This show is to the superhero shounen-genre, what Spaceballs is to Star Wars.
Ryll, thanks for the attempt of making an argument, something shinta has yet to learn.
Still, your example involves Saitama. I already said that Saitama is parody. Everything else is not. Not necessarily. Where was the parody in the fight against that sea monster, prior to Saitamaīs arrival? It was as serious a fight as any shounen-fights. And it was an exciting fight, to make it clear - I enjoyed it vastly. The only "fun" part was when at the very end, Saitama arrived and one-shotted the monster. PARODY. :/
When Saitamaīs power is involved, it becomes parody. But more than half of the anime didnīt even feature Saitama, we saw other heroes fight monsters, and there was no "fun" in it, these were serious fights. Parody is a show like Bata to Testo to Shuukanju, when they spend two episodes mocking Neon Genesis Evangelion. Parody is, indeed, Spaceballs, where no scene goes by without a silly joke. But OPM spends entire episodes without any joke, just showing us awesome battle scenes between serious opponents. Then somewhere at the end Saitama appears, uses his power => JOKE. okay.
I donīt see how you can read this posting of mine and disagree. Please tell me which part Iīm wrong.
I can't believe after all I've said about this topic, this buffoon is saying I didn't make an argument.
So, the main character makes scenes he's in parody, but other characters necessarily don't, so the show can't be a parody?
MFauli must enjoy his double act comedy entirely without either the straight man or the funny man. Dunno how that works and still remains a double act, but the sense of humour is personal, after all.
I think I made the mistake of being the straight man for 2 pages.
shinta, you could have responded to my last posting and I would have been convinced if you showed me where I was wrong. Instead you continue to insult me, make whataboutisms and post links to websites declaring the anime a parody, which is worthless, because itīs us discussing.
Ill give you one more chance to un-make a fool of yourself :)
I think everyone knows who is the fool here, except himself. Because you know, a fool.
It's better to remain silent and be taken for a fool, than talking and leave no doubt about it.
There's probably a better translation, or an equivalent for Guitry's words.
Another one from the same guy:
To be seen as an idiot by a fool is one of life's delicacies
Again, if you can tell me where Iīm wrong in posting #307, Iīll admit to being wrong. Ofc itīs easier to throw around insults.
I'm not replying because I've already explained it. Here, I'll quote myself you lazy bum.
None of the bolded parts are about Saitama. Then you have the silly names of the characters and the ridiculous situations they are always put in. Heck, they even parodied Kamen Rider... Mumen Rider is no coincidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
Oh have I been missing out. This thread is golden, pure comedy. All the Mfauli hate, though I still don't understand it, is an extremely entertaining read. He reminds me of Animeniax though Ani's contrariness was a deliberate act whereas Mfauli's seems to be genuine. Either way I don't know why you would argue with him except for the sake of arguing, which to be clear I am all for. Just as long you understand, that there is little hope of changing his mind, something that should be well established at this point.
As far as this particular argument goes though Kraco, as he tends to, got right to the heart of it
Essentially yes. Mfauli seems to possess a very narrow and limited understanding of genre, I've been there. He believes that if OPM has serious characters, serious fight scenes, a serious plot etc it cannot be parody. Parody is limited to something like an SNL skit or Madtv back when that was a thing or Key and Peele, whatever your preference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
To him this definition is incontrovertible, though he has difficulty articulating it and Shinta and Ryll are too fixated on pointing out what seems obvious to them to notice Mfauli's unique perspective. Makes for a great read though.
Mfauli, Bill and I had this issue before when we discovered our definitions of words were different and we simply decided, well I did anyway can't speak for him, to concede the point. The point in this case being that your definition of parody is not the same as the rest of the forum and that is where you are wrong in post 307 and I agree there isn't any need to insult you.
But insulting him is fun. Mfauli isn't sensitive, as he himself said. He knows I mean it half in jest. We disagree, but we're cool. We are, right?
We are, asshole.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
@topic: Hereīs a simple question: If you take away Saitama from the anime, would it still be parody? If your answer is yes, then please tell me why Boku no Hero no Academia is not parody, too. Yes, there are stereotypical hero-characters with stilly powers in OPM, but ... you have those in other "serious" shounen, too. You simply choose to connotate the characters in OPM as parody, because you see it as logical consequence of Saitama being a parody character. I see that. But my point is that this isnīt a necessity. There are genuine shounen elements and if you choose to take them seriously (as seriously as in other shounen anime), then they work, too.
Mumen Rider is a parody of Kamen Rider, not just a random nor original silly character. And he would be in that world regardless of Saitama's existence.
Yes. But now look at Mumen Rider without the knowledge of Kamen Rider. Would it still work? I say: Yes.
Connotations.
Well, sure. But a parody only works because the audience knows the original. Any parody, when seen without prior knowledge of what it is parodying, will seem to be just an ordinary story. Seem is the operative word, because it doesn't change the fact that it is a parody, and was made to be that way.
Didn't see your post Shinta
@MFauli
But we have knowledge of Kamen Raider that is the point, parody imitates something preexisting. Therein lies the problem with your definition of genre. I have this same problem with music all the time. It is largely subjective and you seem to be of the opinion that because it contains elements of one genre it cannot be another, which is simply false. A shonen parody would naturally have genuine shonen elements that does not mean it is not a parody. Are you a Weird AL fan how would you define what he does?
You are the one asserting that OPM is not a parody and thus you are the one required to provide evidence substantiating that assertion. Thus far all you seem to be saying is that because OPM has serious elements it is therefore a serious shonen and thus not a parody. Which is ridiculous because you are completely ignoring all the elements of parody which by your own logic would make it a parody. Unless you require every show that has elements of one genre or another to also be labeled as such which would completely defeat the purpose of having genres.
Anyway I mentioned Weird Al to make the point you are missing which is overall intent. You seem to be determined to view this as a serious shonen and want to have a serious explanation of all the minutiae, good for you. You are going to be very disappointed but that is your prerogative. What I don't get is why you want everyone to indulge you. To reiterate your own point, you try to take this as a serious shonen series and it doesn't work as you have stated over and over again with your requirement of an explanation for Saitama's power yet you still insist that this is not a parody.
Beautiful argument that if you remove or ignore all the parody then this series is not a parody
Iīm not saying OPM is not a parody, please read more carefully. From the beginning I said that without the ridiculous origin of Saitamaīs power, we could very well watch this anime as a parody OR a serious shounen show. Both works. Thatīs why scenes without Saitama donīt necessarily feel like parody, because thereīs no element during that time that wouldnīt also work for a serious shounen-show. Again, see Boku no Hero no Academia. It also has a lot of parody characters (the shining savior that everyone admires), but I donīt see people call it a parody anime. It could be one. Along the same lines, give us a proper explanation for Saitamaīs power, and you COULD watch the entire anime as a serious, albeit funny, shounen anime. You COULD also watch it as a parody. Both would work. Right now itīs leaning strongly towards parody, because the ridiculous explanation for Saitamaīs power allow no other point of view.
Thatīs all Iīm saying.
Yeah and to reiterate.
I stated in my initial post you are simply a contrarian and are arguing for the sake of arguing, no problem with that. Remove all evidence of parody and it is no longer a parody, naturally. Again how you choose to interpret this series is your prerogative. You still didn't address something though which is if everyone simply agreed to label Boku no Hero no Academia a parody would that satisfy you and if so why argue over a simple matter of a label. From your very first post in this thread you seem to want this series to be something it isn't which is a very serious shonen series with an explanation of all the minutiae and you want everyone to indulge you. The question is why?
It isnīt about what I want this anime to be. It is about what it could be viewed as. Thatīs pretty much my reason for arguing, not because I wanna be contrarian for debateīs sake (which I enjoy, too, but this is no such case). Youīre overly simplifying my argument when you say snarkily say "remove all evidence of parody and it is no langer a parody, naturally". The point is that there is one, exactly ONE element that entails the parody-label. Which is the explanation for Saitamaīs power.
If you want to make this about me, then yes, Iīd prefer OPM to be a "serious" shounen series because I like the characters and the great animation. There arenīt enough good "serious" anime with that level of animation.
How on Earth could it ever be a serious fighting show with an MC like Saitama? It's irrelevant if his power is explained or not. Saitama basically ruins everything that could make it a traditional, progressive shounen (or seinen) action show. The fact not a single other character in the story seem to understand or accept that is a part of its charm.
Only.... one?Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
There are multiple points that make OPM a parody. It stems from the fact that this uses shounen tropes to the point of making them funny by either following them to ridiculous levels, or outright showing that they shouldn't/don't work. (ie parody)
Examples include:
-I'm a hero for fun. Stuff all the mighty altruistic reasons.
-I'm the dumb brother in a Pinky-and-the-Brian duo. I'm so dumb I kill my partner and blame the MC for it.
-I'm strong because.. I do normal training. (that's one reason)
-I have a robotic monkey voice.. just because it's cool. Not because I'm actually a cyborg.
-I have to beat this monster because the supermarket is closing, not because it's the right thing to do.
-"Angel Dash!" ("Don't just say it, run") "ANGEL DASH!!"
Those are some examples from flicking through screenshots. You parody the tropes by blowing them out of proportions, or show how stupid they are for the lolz.
Saitama's entire existence and his behavior in the anime constitutes this show as parody. The way he beats up peoplesometimesis parody. The way other people act is sometimes parody. The series does have serious parts too. It has to, if it's to make fun of them.
On the other hand, if you were to argue "This world is so well built, that if you had replaced Saitama with another <generic shounen hero> we could have had a great, serious shounen anime.", that's another matter.
Even if we later learn that Saitama got this strong because he ate a one-of-a-kind Devil's Fruit (or enter some other typical reason), it doesn't change how the rest of this story is presented.
I have no recollection of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
[QUOTE=Buffalobiian;558466]
-I have a robotic monkey voice.. just because it's cool. Not because I'm actually a cyborg.
[QUOTE]
I want to point out that the Robot-monkey is a Robot monkey in a Robot suit!
It's freaking hilarious. He says he's using a Robot-voice because it's cool, yet when Saitama looked away his "scalp opened up" and he beep-booped his master about their failure. He's a box inside a box inside a box.
Buff, I donīt want to anger you, BUT ("iīm not a racist, but ...", yeah, yeah :P) all of your examples, sans Saitamaīs power, could happen like that in a serious shounen, too. Again, I am NOT saying that OPM is not a parody. Thatīs what some of you seem to believe. All Iīm saying is that without that certain one exception, one could watch OPM and not take it as parody at all. You have the example of a hero doing something just because itīs cool. Thatīs exactly what happens in Boku no Hero no Academia when they get their hero costumes. And there are many other examples.
You claim that these side characters in OPM are parody. One could just as well call them stereotypes. Or even less positively: generic. Itīs all about perception. Hereīs the thing: A typical parody would fall completely flat for an audience that has no knowledge of the source material. Thatīs what makes it a parody, what makes it funny: You know the original, you see the absurdism added to it in the parody, you laugh. In OPM, we have a story that works for BOTH. If you know about the connotations, then it is a parody for you. If you donīt know about those connotations or donīt care about them, then you STILL have a nice, serious albeit funn shounen anime. With the exceptions of Saitamaīs powerīs origins.
I donīt know how to better explain it at that point, it feels like weīre going in circles. Again: Iīm not saying OPM isnīt a parody. But it doesnīt have to be one, would it not be for Saitama.
The thing is, even normal shounen shows can have parody elements in it, like One Piece. They just aren't classified as a parody show because there aren't that many parody jokes in them. Many shounen shows also subvert shounen tropes, which is a big part of what OPM does as a parody show.
You're basically comparing OPM minus Saitama's absurd power (which makes no sense since that is the crux of the show, but I digress) to other shounen shows which actually contain parody elements and say that they are similar. Well duh.
By the way, any parody, if no one knows anything it references, can and will be treated as a normal show. It's not limited to OPM.
Iīm not talking about Saitamaīs power, but his powerīs origins. Otherwise Mob would also be parody, which it isnīt.
In OPM there arent 90 seconds without some form of gag, pun, joke, parody, satire. Its a too much clear example of what a comedy (with a big/major relevance of parody) is.
Mob psycho is a comedy too. Probably more satire than parody. At least the few episodes I watched was way more comedy than anything else (drama, action...).
ps: if Gintama is officially classified as parody there is no way OPM isnt.
I honestly think that the reason Mfauli is still asserting this stance is because, and I mean no offense here because humor is subjective, most of the jokes in OPM went over his head. That, or he didn't recognize those jokes as parody even if they actually are. They got lumped into the higher category of comedy.
You say you mean no offense, but you do anyway. Ofc I see that certain characters a parody, if not all. Matter of fact remains: You can watch all of them as if they were serious characters. You cannot with Saitamaīs power origins.
Why are you people still arguing about this? He doesn't get it. He's not going to get it. You're wasting your time and my bandwidth. None of this is sweet OPM news.
Stop spreading bs, darth. I get why people see OPM as parody. Iīm saying that is not a necessity.
Well, I still agree with you about the world itself.
Outside of Saitama, OPM is a typical shounen world. No, it's not completely serious, but none of the big shounen series I watch are either. Dragon Ball, Naruto, One Piece. Those worlds are all goofy as shit at times. And they're the ur examples of shounen series.
Of course, the idea that the series isn't a parody is of course ridiculous. Every scene of Saitama interacting with this world is a parody of the standard shounen tropes, and the entire series is Saitama interacting with this world.
@Mfauli - I can watch anything and perceive it any way I want. Everyone can. Of course watching OPM as a parody isn't a necessity. But that doesn't change the fact that it is a parody. Heck, I can watch Scary Movie and be terrified from all the gore. Doesn't make it real horror.
@Darth - Ever get the feeling upon seeing a small kitten wandering the road, ready to be hit by a car, that you kinda wanna save it even if it's a pain and you gain absolutely nothing? No, that is not how I feel about arguing with Mfauli. It feels a lot more like a wrong in the world that you wanna correct because it dangles in front of your face.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthEnderX
Thatīs what Iīve been saying forever now. Thanks for agreeing.
Take note though, that a "typical" shounen world has its share of parody and comedy elements. Moreover, I'm pretty sure OPM, even excluding Saitama, exceeds most shounen shows in that aspect. Many examples have already been mentioned in the previous posts, but Mumen Rider is still the best one.
No, that isn't. "Outside of Saitama's power origins" is what you've been saying.. as if Saitama himself was okay, except the way he got his power.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
Not that he's OP, not that he doesn't give a shit about altruism.
You called out Saitama's power origin as the single element that turns this into undeniable satire.
I actually addressed this here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buff
So Buff, do you want argue for argumentīs sake or actually understand what I mean? Youīre right, I said the originīs of his powers are the single cause for parody. And that is what defines Saitama!11 For crying out loud! sigh. If Saitama had a reasonable origin, then itīd change every scene with him and his enemies. Then weīd know that there is a way for other strong people to exist or that there is a weakness or anything. Saitamaīs "I donīt care about the world" attitude is the result of his power. And thatīs what Iīve been saying.
What I donīt understand is your perception that Iīd somehow claim OPM isnīt parody, when I wrote several times now that it is and that Iīm not saying it isnīt.
No, Saitama's attitude (and the comedy that brings) is not the result of how he got his power. It's a result of being unmatched. How he got his power is irrelevant to the comedy that ensued in the rest of the show, with exception of Genos wanting to know about it.
Even if he was actually from an alien planet and got sent to earth in a capsule, if he is that OP, the rest of the story stays the same.
If you disagree, please site specific instances (like I said, excluding Genos) that invalidate the parody aspect of the show if you change Saitama's power origin.
The only joke that actually RELIES on the origin of Saitama's power so far, is the one in the 3rd episode where he tries to explain it. Cause it's never really come up outside of that.
@MFauli: I am not of the impression, that you don't think this is parody.
You said that this show can be read as serious, funny shounen or parody depending on how you interpret scenes. You say that the only element that can not be read as serious/funny (and therefore can only be interpreted as parody), is the origin of Saitama's power. This is how I understand your argument, and I disagree. Shinta has just talked about why everything else doesn't relate to the origin.
If you're after an origin, I'll give you one right now. Saitama ate a special fruit dropped from space. It came from an asteroid from a now extinct planet. There are no more fruits of this kind. No one can become more powerful by eating this (extinct) fruit.
There's your origin.
Why a fruit? Can't it be cake? Everyone loves cake. Except me.
And hereīs why the parody indeed hinges on his powerīs origins: The current "explanation" is so ridiculous that having him be unmatched can never be contested. Never! He didnīt do anything special to become stronger than everybody else, so how can there ever be someone of equal or greater power? Iīm sure most of the other heroes did A LOT more training for the entirety of their lives, yet are vastly inferior to Saitama. No matter what kind of strong monster or alien or whatever is introduced, there is currently nothing to make the assumption that Saitama would be outclassed/have troubles in a fight. Because his powerīs origin is untouchable. They could have as well said "well, I never did any sports. One day I decided to lift a 10kg bell bar for 10 minutes and thatīs how I became this strong". Itīd be the same result. His powerīs origin is so ludicrous that him being "unmatched", as you say, can never be put in question. Because there is no tangible basis on which to overpower him. And thatīs why his powerīs origins are the single parodic element.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
You can take ANY scene you want. If Saitamaīs powers had a proper origin, then there could be a real plot. Like an evil organization secretly studying Saitama (akin to Lex Luthor stuyding Superman). There could be aliens from outer space with similiar powers. There could be others who undergo the same training as him. Etc etc. Having a proper explanation would make his power tangible, if not attainable. For peteīs sake, a simple power scouter-device like Vegeta used to wear would let the bad guys know what theyīre in for. But youīll never see a scouter, because the show would never reveal Saitamaīs limits (as of now, at least).Quote:
If you disagree, please site specific instances (like I said, excluding Genos) that invalidate the parody aspect of the show if you change Saitama's power origin.
You're not talking about the origin anymore. You are talking about expanding an aspect of the show that was intentionally left a mystery for comedy's sake. It is an intentional subversion of the usual shounen power-up trope, which you seem to have some weird attachment to.
You basically want a different story that is not a parody, which we all knew from the start.
And like I said, Mumen Rider is clearly a parody element that has nothing to do with Saitama, so, and I quote, "And thatīs why his powerīs origins are the single parodic element." is wrong.
YES I AM. Stop moving the goal post. Iīm very clearly talking about the origin and elaborating on why it matters. If you deny that, then we can finally stop debating. Makes no sense if you arbitrarily interpret my postings in ways theyīre clearly not meant to be read.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
An origin can be a one liner, like the ones Buff and I provided. What you want is an entire arc or plot behind that origin. Those 2 things are clearly different.
And seriously Mfauli, no one actually wants to debate with you about this topic. Everyone is just indulging you for... reasons.
Nice job ignoring the Mumen fallacy I pointed out btw. It'd help if you argue with less sweeping generalizations. You sound like Trump sometimes, and that is not a compliment, as much as you'd like to think it is.
So, people, regardless of what MFauli's definition/thoughts/extrapolation of "origin" is, this is why he's umm.. passionate:Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
Saitama is OP and no one can touch him. No one can copy him. He's trolling everyone and there's nothing you can do about it. I don't like that. - or something to that extent.
Tell me where I'm wrong MFauli.
Change "I donīt like that" with "thatīs what makes it a parody, not necessarily all the rest" and weīre good.
@shinta: lol, I donīt want to debate all this either and I heavily suspect youīre just in it for some major trolling. But i find it rather annoying that my well articulated, lengthy postings are being partly ignored so you can keep disagreeing. For the n-th time: Iīm not denying you the right to call OPM a parody. It is this. It is also this.
I actually don't understand you anymore. I give up lol.
At least you admit to trolling :)
I never trolled you. I insulted the fuck out of you, but I did it while trying to educate you about parody. I failed.
so you do say that this series is a parody... the thing is that small detail changes the aspect of the whole series...Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
But I donīt want to be educated about "every aspect of OPM is parody" in the same way I donīt want to be educated by creationists.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
Yet another sweeping generalization.
I never said every aspect of OPM is parody. A lot of it is (most of which you don't see or refuse to admit, aka Mumen Rider), therefore classifying the show as one. Don't put words in my mouth. You, however, and I quote, said this:
I guess most people who badly need education also badly dislike getting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
Excuses pffft. :p
Anyway, we've had our fun. Let's stop derailing this thread lol.
On topic, did the second season announcement come with a date?
Deleting my posting, classy!!1
Who did what?
EDIT: Your post is missing. I wonder what happened. Oh mine too. They got moderated, for obvious reasons.
Ah still going I see. It is still entertaining though kinda hard to stay invested since you're all just rehashing the same points that were made 17 pages ago. Anyway Mfauli. I am just curious about something. In talking about the origins of Saitama's strength you used the words reasonable and ridiculous and I wonder if you are actually serious because my initial response was laugher. You talk about Goku and Superman or DF as if their origins are reasonable and not ludicrous and absurd like Saitama's. I'm just wondering how much you thought about that before you posted it because regardless of the source of their power. Whether it is DBZ or One Piece or Bleach or Naruto or Darker than Black or Black Cat or Trigun it is all absurd. The idea that somehow, "I did a lot of push ups" is ludicrous and absurd but I am an alien from another planet or my daddy sealed a demon inside of me is reasonable, is hilariously warped really.
Anyway let me try to make an actual point before I lose my train of thought. Shinta said it, the origin of his power is completely irrelevant and would make no damn difference. You just seem to have this delusion that having some long convoluted backstory with flashbacks and training montages and tons of meaningless exposition would somehow make this all better, see Naruto. When the issue you have is one of dramatic tension. There are many many shows that go out of their way to create a false sense of suspense by creating some arbitrary barrier for the MC to overcome. Whether you call it super saiyan, SS2, SS3, SSGod. One tail, four, six, eight, sage mode, Bankai or whatever the hell. When it makes no damned bit of difference because we know for a fact that no matter how difficult or impossible it is supposed to be the MC is going to do it anyway. The shonen-power up trope can get really annoying and one of the best things about OPM is that there is not even the pretense that any opponent has even the slightest chance of defeating Saitama. He is Steven Seagal in every Steven Seagal movie. Why you insist that it should be otherwise I still don't understand. If training arcs and constant shonen powerups is what you want then watch Yuyu Hakusho. Or if you want a protag who is at a constant disadvantage and has to continually jump through hoops to have a chance to face his enemies only to discover that there are yet more hoops to jump through then go for Inuyasha. Arguing about this is pointless. Also don't attempt to justify it by saying this all needs to be explained in order to provide an opponent who can be a threat to Saitama just to satisfy your need for dramatic tension. Regardless of how strong the opponent is supposed to be and however reasonable or absurd their backstory we know how it is going to end. It is in the title.
No real reason why you should as it was years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
That is where I stopped reading, because youīre completely wrong here. Itīs actually astounding that you failed to realize that yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
OF COURSE, it is completely reasonable when Gokuīs power is explained by being member of a different species (well, race, considering they can impregnate human girls). I donīt know how I could even begin to explain why becoming the most powerful being by doing some push-ups is ridiculous and all the other franchises you named are not. Goku is an alie. Ichigo becomes a shinigami. Ruffy ate a devil fruit.
Saitama ... did what millions of people do, too. Thatīs the difference between reasonable and ridiculous. If there were thousands or other Saitamaīs on earth, then it would be a reasonable explanation.
I have to agree with Mfauli here, mostly because Saitama's power origin being silly is intentional. Dat's da joke.
Sigh. It is actually kind of disappointing that you missed my point. You guys have just become so conditioned to accept these ridiculous origin stories by rote that you fail to see that Saitama's is no more ridiculous than any other. As you said Shinta, that is the joke, it's satire. The purpose, at least as I understood it, was just to highlight how ridiculous these stories can be in other series. Which is why I questioned Mfauli's use of the word reasonable. It is fine if you don't see it that way but you're only encouraging Mfauli and his ridiculous notion that Saitama's power has to be explained in order to present a worthy opponent.
There doesn't need to be thousands of others Mfauli but the very explanation of how Saitama is said to have attained his strength opens the door for others to be presented with equal incredulity. Though I don't suppose that even if that were to happen and there were others who had attained comparable strength in a similar fashion, you would accept that your point is moot.
I am in no way encouraging Mfauli. If anything, I discourage him for no reason whatsoever all the time.
As for why I agreed with him, I took "reasonable" to mean "reasonable for the fiction's universe." DBZ has aliens, and Bleach has shinigami. Naturally, those make no sense when compared to our reality, but they are consistent with the presented fictional world's setting.
However, Saitama just became powerful for no real reason in the context of his own world, which makes it ridiculous to the point where the characters in that universe call it out on its ridiculousness. This is done for comedic effect. All other heroes have extensive origin stories, even the ones in OPM itself, but the most powerful guy grew powerful from push ups.
Which is the same context Iīm using the word "reasonable". Abdula simply made a weak argument and got called out for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
Again I feel like we've taken a step back somewhere. I am not sure what we are arguing. Yes even keeping it in universe many shonen series have broken characters. DBZ and Bleach are among the worst offenders. Shinta you yourself said that the reason for Saitama's power is irrelevant. If it were because he is alien, or ate a DF, or as the result of an experiment gone wrong or he is descended from an ancient bloodline of which he is the sole survivor. His strength would be no less overwhelming and equally unattainable.
Also this is all assuming that there is no one else in that universe who also has overwhelming power for equally frivolous reasons.
I am not sure what you are arguing, but my statement was pretty clear, and it has nothing to do with being OP. It's all about an origin story being reasonable. I'm not stating anything beyond that.
All those "broken characters" in other series have believable, reasonable origins for their powers - in the context of their universe. Saitama doesnīt. His powerīs origin is something everybody of us could do, and something that millions of people actually do. Without the same result. Thatīs what makes his power absolutely unattainable.
With Goku, you always have stronger enemies because "aliens!" is a valid explanation within the universeīs context.
Sigh, yeah. I'll see if anyone comes along who happens to agree with me and can do a better job of explaining because this is just going to keep going in circles. Call it semantics but we are arguing what constitutes reasonable, just like before I made the point that Mfauli has a very different definition of what constitutes parody. Mfauli has been going on and on about Saitama's strength and saying that the whole thing is unreasonable, because no one else could attain Saitama's strength. I am simply pointing out that at any point someone else can be introduced with equally incredulous strength. You also used the word consistent which I take issue with because strength in DBZ and Bleach, the two examples you used, are anything but consistent. You seemed to be siding with Mfauli on that issue which I could not understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
This is and has been the crux of Mfauli's argument since his very first post in this thread and this is where I am saying he is wrong. Saitama's origin in no way precludes there being other strong characters because according to Saitama himself push-ups is a valid explanation within the universe's context.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
It "precludes other strong characters", because it is a fact that there are thousands, if not millions of people who do the same training as Saitama, if not more.
I agree with what Abdula says, and I can't say it any better. So I won't.
As for Saitama getting stronger with doing pushups, I don't believe that for one second. He happened to do pushups. It's not what made him stronger.
The very first monster he killed by gutting him with his necktie. He was born OP, he just never realised it.
all we need to prove that saitama's powerup is legit is a villain that started doing the same regime being able to challenge saitama.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
and then saitama winning by a technicality for satire!
That very first monster happened to turn into half man - half crab, by drinking crab-soup or something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
~no~one~cares.
Every other monster aside from Boris has taken one hit to finish off (or could have). Even in episode 00, despite Saitama seemingly being less agile, people went down with one punch. Most of it is off-screen, but the timing and physical marks all suggest this.Quote:
Originally Posted by KrayZ33
Close. That would just prove that the villain is as strong as Saitama. "Proof" would actually require evidence that Saitama would never have gotten stronger without that training - not just that someone else doing the same thing got the same result.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForteCross
(That proof doesn't exist, since he ripped the crab apart right from the start)
The villain achieving the same thing would suggest more legitimacy to Saitama's training, but it's not quite "all you need" for absolute proof.
Saitama didn't punch Crablante at all. he ripped his eye out. He even took a beating and was injured and bleeding. Saitama 3 years later doesn't bleed and doesn't use anyhing but punches - that's because he was normal before, who had to use anything at his disposal and was very well killable, and now - after training - he's not.
Saitama was like Mumen Rider, unless you want to give him some super powers, even though he clearly doesn't have any, you are wrong. There is no indication that implies that it is somehow impossible to beat Crablante without dormant super powers.
If we are being super technical about this, neither resistance nor strength was enough to rip apart the tie he used to rip its eye out.
Yeah, because Mumen rider could have totally ripped that guys eyes out along with his innards. Saitama got faster and tougher, but he's always been OP. He didn't even need to punch Crab. That's how all non-boss villains have been portrayed in this story. Nothing lasts more than one attack.
He thinks he was a normal guy who got to where he is now with training. That is not the case.
To talk about his tie not breaking is like talking about his gloves never breaking from his own punches. Can't be that strong, right?
One Punch Man has always been one punch man. I daresay he's also one kick man. Or one pull-your-eye-out-with-his-tie man. It's just a cooler way of saying One Attach Man.
I disagree. Saitama was normal, albeit heroic and fit, when he had hair. He certainly can't jump to the moon.
I'm not stating anything about how he got stronger.
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
What is happening in this thread now?! :D
First I have to explain why Saitamaīs powerīs origin are the only source of parody. Now people make up lore themselves. :D Just to be clear: The moment we find out about Saitama having a reasonable origin in terms of powers, this series stops being parody.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
What I'm getting @ with the tie reference. It's still anime.
The powerlevel he's shown during that episode is that of a normal, agile human being, filled with determination (in this universe)
Mumen Rider should've died too, but he didn't. Even though Mumen Rider is, and you seem to agree on this, shit tier without super powers.
And what if Saitama is the only human being that did that training for 3 years straight? Every single day, without exception - ever. Why exactly is that in itself not reasonable in a show were psychs, aliens and other unrealistic shit exist.
@ Mfauli
this show will *never* stop being a parody, and his power origin is not even remotely the only reason why this is a parody. "Just to be clear."
What was Tornado's training, or Angel-dash guy, what is their origin of power? We don't know and that's why it's parody? Come on...
What about the de- and recon-struction of whole cities in mere days, we've seen landscapes getting ruined in which ~50.000-60.000 people lived in mere seconds - no one really cares. It's not like they had the chance to evacuate when that Alien ship came down and unleashed hell on City A(was it?). They are all *dead*.
Yes, I worded it badly. What I meant is: If Saitamaīs power had a proper origin, then the whole show could be validly watched as a serious shounen-anime, besides also being a valid parody.
No it *can't* unless you want to make it one of the worst shows ever done.
In each and every episode, people *die*. Not 1... not 2. But we are looking at several hundred of thousands most of the time. And neither Saitamo, nor Genos is even a little concerned by this. If you want to take this show "serious", how would you look at something like that?
It's quite fitting that most monsters in this show seem to refer to humans as ants or other "unworthy" lifeforms
The animations and entertaining setups would make it a great watch even if it was to be taken seriously. See Keijo!!!!!!!! ;P
1) because even the cyborg, master researcher and whateverthefuckthatthingis were also finding that unreasonable, andQuote:
Originally Posted by Krayz33
2) Saitama has always been one-shotting people.
If the author wanted to show me a weak Saitama, they should have shown him before he was a One-X-Man. Instead, he's always been One Punch* Man.
How can I be like him? What are the secrets to his powers?
-Not happening. This guy's been one-shotting people ever since he wanted to be a hero. That's the joke.
Agreed. Genos even straight up says "Even Master Saitama doesn't know the reason for his own strength."Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
If they wanted to give a "proper" reason within the context of a parody, they should just explain it with a nebulous "some higher power chose to make him this powerful", breaking the 4th wall a bit by implying god = author. Thatīs it.
So. I found out today that there are freaking SIX OVAs for this, and a special. It's like 4 full episodes worth of content. So I watched them all.
I can see why they aren't real episodes, because they were pretty boring.
That said, I still liked the last three OVAs just because of the characters involved.
I feel bad for Bang...
I've only watched the one where they play this game with that toy-hammer and the "helmet".
That was fucking amazing
I'm suprised, the first episode of the new season aired already, I can't find any subs (not even horrible subs?)
It's a Hulu exlusive as far as I recall, would have to see if there are any release groups that have tackled those. The raw released has it as episode 00 though, so I think it's a recap.Quote:
Originally Posted by KrayZ33
Episode one seems to be out now...
Where???
And it was awesome, the whole 23m50sQuote:
Originally Posted by Munsu
HSQuote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
Holy shit am I already sad about it being only 1 season
A great episode. It seems like slowly people here and there are starting to realise there's a fairly unknown powerhouse called Saitama out there.
King deserved to lose a controller. What a lousy team player.
Gotta love that King Engine. MVP poker face is his real superpower.
King's an otaku, he's one of us!
"If you find the cyborg that killed your family, don't engage, come let me know.." says the doctor making exceptional cyborgs.
I can't remember if I watched all of those OVAs. Time to revisit.
Yeah, I'm starting to think more and more that ol' Dr. Light there is secretly a villain.