He even manages to survive a GENESIS beam shot in GS, with Freedom heavily damaged by Providence....he'll be back for sure
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He even manages to survive a GENESIS beam shot in GS, with Freedom heavily damaged by Providence....he'll be back for sure
abt this explosion alot of people keep debuting is it caused by freedom or minerva -_-''
but i dun think its from the freedom coz it would be too big...
he never did survive the genesis shot...
it never even hit him...freedom fly up before it could hit freedom
This episode seems a bit ambigious(pardon me if i spelled that incorrectly) in whether Freedom did explode or not, because after the moment shown between kira and shinn when Freedom was impaled, the blast is shown buffering the Minerva. One could say the blast was Tannhauser striking the water followed by an enormous blast would be the most logical answer here...there might have been some secondary explosions in the blast( a small one) of the Freedom exploding which explains Impulse badly damaged state. That at least rules out that Freedom could have just fell into the ocean with the beam sword stuck in it. And can some one explain why are the pieces of mecha located behind shinn after the explosion?
Edit: Hmm...yah i think i was wrong there....he survived the genesis self-destruction more likely.....
mayb its the pieces where impulse huge fat sword hit the body of the freedom and shield =p
Quote:
Originally posted by: DDBen
Please rewatch the episode the AA was firing only to miss the Minerva as it was specifically avoiding giving zaft anything to use for PR purposes saying that the AA is a threat as atleast some people likely still see it in a good light after the last war.Quote:
Originally posted by: qilinkiddo
AA fake their death too fake lolz...
while escaping AA did not even fire a single shot to minerva -_-
The explosion was NOT Freedom. The reaction was from the positron cannon on Minerva reacting with the water. The initial Puff of smoke is the blast nearing the water and the second ball shape explosion was from it hitting either the ocean floor or the AA. The bits of Freedom were in no way enough to account for the entire mech and had Kira blown up with Freedom causing any sort of Nuclear explosion then there would be absolutely nothing left of Impulse which was ontop of the explosion missing its head leaving a gaping hole in its Phaseshift armor.Quote:
Originally posted by: PSJ
erm you do know that the big explosion was from freedom blowing up right? there is nothing left of freedom, at least not much a few scraps here and there maybe, not more. i still think kira survived, the guy is immortal, i mean he managed to survive when asuran self ddestructed in kiras face(there was a cut in strikes armor right where the cockpit is.)
Thanks for the support. Also, lets not forget we know exactly what Nuclear explosions look like in the SEED universe. Go rewatch... episode 9 I think it is. Or the end of SEED.
Nukes look like giant balls of white light, highlighted with whatever color explosion they are using for the day (they were pink in space).
The explosion we saw here was the conventional 'fiery' explosion, which is produced by the tanhauser, and also by the lohengrin positron cannon. So couldn't be a nuke.
EDIT: yes, I dont get why people keep asking where the debris in the water came from. It came from the exchange of blows between Freedom and Impulse at the end. Freedom was impaled by the sword (and prolly dragged the sword and Impulses arms into the ocean with it... remember, phsyics says that there was as much force on Impulse as it hit Freedom with...) and Impulse had its head stabbed by a beam saber. The reason the debris is behind Impulse is because of the nature of water. Things float.
Just a thought on the shield penetration thing: I don't think the arm held shields have PS on them, but instead have anti-beam coating. The reason I say this is in just about every fight, the shield blocks beam sabers, and beam rifle rounds, no problem, even the higher caliber beam weaponry (Calamity grade stuff). However, if you recall the Justice/Raider fight, Athrun's shield got dented and bashed up pretty badly from Raider's Morningstar-like weapon. So Freedom's shield getting pierced by Shinn's anti-ship sword is more possible.
However, on PS armor, every time a direct hit is scored with beam weaponry, limbs and bits go flying- how many times did Duel lose a leg b/c of Kira? Saviour had PS, and got sliced up by beam sabers. Etc.
PS armor was more designed to stop the Djinn's main weaponry (which was ZAFT's staple suit when PS was being developed), being their swords and rifles, which it did a pretty good job on. PS armor hasn't really had any large improvements either, though the TPS was more energy efficient. Slashing and blunt force never got through PS armor, but piercing attacks (which is anything with a lot of force at one concentrated point) does go through. Which is exactly what we have here, nuke-powered PS or not.
@DDBen, for the sake of variety:
"However, Terra I'm afraid that Shinn does enjoy killing to a certain degree. He certainly doesn't kill to protect anything instead he kills out of vengence every time."
Killing out of vengeance does NOT equal that someone ENJOYS killing.
If there was an explosion, should'nt the pieces be scattered all over the ocean as opposed to just behind Impulse? Unless its the artist perception drawing or something showing only nearby objects while negating the far...
oic just saw that AA fire its missiles but all miss...
did AA did that on purposes...only watch the raw by now...
dont know what they have been talking =x
It was on purpose....Glady mentions after the near miss as long as they don't get careless they won't get hit. And adds as expected AA was trying not to hit them.
lolz i was waiting for the website which i normally to download the subbed episode...
still haven come out yet...bored ~_~
@DDBen: Seriously, I think you just don't want to admit that Kira got honestly beaten by Shinn. Before this episode, it was "Kira can't be beaten by Shinn, it must be Neo/Mwu because Neo is expendable" which was very implausible from the beginning to say the least. Now, Kira was overwhelmed with both the AA's situation, and Shinn's intensity, and all you can think to do is say "Kira let Shinn beat him." The Kira worship is really getting kind of sad.....
Anyways, I had a question- is it normal for Minerva to turn immediately after firing the Taunhueser(spl)? Because if I recall correctly, the blast from the explosion that seems to be confusing people caught the Minerva on the side, not from the front. So is it possible that the explosion (not saying it was nuclear or anything) was indeed from Freedom? (if it cam at Minerva from the front, please correct me, I'm at work so I can't double check.)
Correct Terra killing only for the reason of vengence would not mean you enjoy Killing. However killing because you enjoy what it grants you. Specifically in Shinn's case things like killing the EA soldiers in the base that was already defeated in order to play hero. Does to a certain degree show that you enjoy killing because you will soon start to equate killing people with the perks it grants you.Quote:
Originally posted by: Terracosmo
@DDBen, for the sake of variety:
"However, Terra I'm afraid that Shinn does enjoy killing to a certain degree. He certainly doesn't kill to protect anything instead he kills out of vengence every time."
Killing out of vengeance does NOT equal that someone ENJOYS killing.
Jurojin you are completely incorrect here. Before I stated that if Freedom was destroyed or to be sacrificed in order for the AA to escape that it was simply much more likely for them to kill off Neo then it would be for them to Kill off Kira. So I stated that IF freedom was destroyed and the pilot was killed that it would only happen IF Neo was piloting Freedom and not Kira.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
@DDBen: Seriously, I think you just don't want to admit that Kira got honestly beaten by Shinn. Before this episode, it was "Kira can't be beaten by Shinn, it must be Neo/Mwu because Neo is expendable" which was very implausible from the beginning to say the least. Now, Kira was overwhelmed with both the AA's situation, and Shinn's intensity, and all you can think to do is say "Kira let Shinn beat him." The Kira worship is really getting kind of sad.....
Anyways, I had a question- is it normal for Minerva to turn immediately after firing the Taunhueser(spl)? Because if I recall correctly, the blast from the explosion that seems to be confusing people caught the Minerva on the side, not from the front. So is it possible that the explosion (not saying it was nuclear or anything) was indeed from Freedom? (if it cam at Minerva from the front, please correct me, I'm at work so I can't double check.)
That aside I don't whorship Freedom I mearly am analysing the episode as I see it. We know Shinn is alive at this point and I certainly believe its common sense that Kira, who is extremely popular, would not randomly be killed off at this point in the series as it would simply destroy the ratings of GSD to kill him. That being said with the question being placed about what took place here please note that Kira did not use 80% of freedoms weapons only using the beam rifle and a single beam saber throughout the episode. When in turn watching this episode why would he do this? He could have simply shot impulse to hell but following Dullindales tape showing Impulse instead of freedom taking down destroy if he was to kill Impulse that would put AA in MUCH greater danger. However, If you were to let zaft put out a tape of Impulse destroying freedom it makes the AA much less likely to be hunted as Zaft can simply use that to there advantage while you bide your time.
The simple fact that you have no ability to look beyond what they show you in a episode shows nothing but your own personal ignorance.
Now as for your Question the Minerva had started to turn likely because they were aware of the secondary blast that would be comming. So turning the ship to the side and letting the wave carry you away from the blast is a much better solution then driving into the blast radius of your own cannon.
[quote]
Originally posted by: Jurojin
@DDBen: Seriously, I think you just don't want to admit that Kira got honestly beaten by Shinn. Before this episode, it was "Kira can't be beaten by Shinn, it must be Neo/Mwu because Neo is expendable" which was very implausible from the beginning to say the least. Now, Kira was overwhelmed with both the AA's situation, and Shinn's intensity, and all you can think to do is say "Kira let Shinn beat him." The Kira worship is really getting kind of sad.....
i totally disagree with you, DDBen's responses contain more insight.. he only stated his opinions and backed it up, i dont see him saying hes a kira freak anywhere
also I disgree with your qoute,
In all things endure.
In enduring, grow strong
in most situations it will cause great mental stress leading to insanity
and i think bad sentence structure? no?
the tannhauser explosion would have to hit the AA to make an explosion of that size. and the AA was well under the water by the time the tannhauser reached there. one more thing, it was to late to be the tannhauser explosion, it would have fired by the time impulse impaled freedom. im still convinced it was freedom blowing up. the suit got a nuclear reactor, if that didnt give off any kind of blast after being totally destroyed it wouldnt be fucking nuclear.
This would depend completely on timing we are watching the Shinn/Kira battle at the same point in time as Minerva is shooting at the AA there is honestly no way to determine when the shot was fired in relation to when Kira and Shinn took that final swing at each other. Except of course the red trail from the Tannhauser that is disapating as the Minerva turns and gets hit by the wave from the explosion.Quote:
Originally posted by: PSJ
the tannhauser explosion would have to hit the AA to make an explosion of that size. and the AA was well under the water by the time the tannhauser reached there. one more thing, it was to late to be the tannhauser explosion, it would have fired by the time impulse impaled freedom. im still convinced it was freedom blowing up. the suit got a nuclear reactor, if that didnt give off any kind of blast after being totally destroyed it wouldnt be fucking nuclear.
Basically what I'm saying is both of these happen at the same exact moment so there is not really a delay between the 2 explosions one is mearly shown as they have to show you both fights being resolved before they show the explosion.
First and foremost, nuclear reactors ARE NOT NUCLEAR BOMBS. If you wanted to rig one to explode, you would have to very specifically set it up to do such, and then intentionally trigger it. A triggering event would certainly not be something like being struck by a giant sword. Even if a reactor melts down, which you might get away with here, all you get is a lot of heat and radiation. Not an explosion.Quote:
Originally posted by: PSJ
the tannhauser explosion would have to hit the AA to make an explosion of that size. and the AA was well under the water by the time the tannhauser reached there. one more thing, it was to late to be the tannhauser explosion, it would have fired by the time impulse impaled freedom. im still convinced it was freedom blowing up. the suit got a nuclear reactor, if that didnt give off any kind of blast after being totally destroyed it wouldnt be fucking nuclear.
Second, the Tanhauser is a Positron cannon. The first small explosion (as stated earlier) was it hitting the water... the second, most likely, was it impacting the ocean floor. Not only was it not shown hitting the AA, but from Talia's previous attitude, there is no evidence she intended for that shot to hit it. She could have been delaying to make sure the chance of hitting was very small. As for it not doing enough damage to cause that kind of explosion... have you not been paying attention? They used that same cannon to break up a colony. In the "attack the lohengrin" episode, we see a positron cannon take out an entire Zaft attack force in one shot.
That explosion was not too big for the Tanhauser, not by a long shot.
@DDBen: All I have to say to you is that you have constantly presented yourself as one who believes that Kira is infallable when compared to Shinn as a pilot, and constantly form very half baked opinions on both Shinn's character, and possibilties in the show. You refuse to acknowledge Shinn in the same leauge of piloting as Rau/Athrun/Kira/Mwu etc, and that skews every attempt of a hypothisis in relation to Kira vs. Shinn.
@iesu 350z: He's making these opinions on the belief that he's stated before that Shinn just can't possibly beat Kira. In the episode33 thread that got deleted, you'd see it for yourself. As for my quote, what the hell are you talking about?
Good episode, but nothing is set in stone. Archangel probably made it...next episode might show them trying to survive with the damage they took and depth charging ordered by that fat ass zaft general...
Kira's suit went into pieces. if there's still an intact part of it left, it will sink...so he has to go floating in the ocean. He could have survived his suit's core meltdown too, coordinators are like super humans so you'd think they were resistant to radiation maybe? Or maybe he'll get a radiation illness and live for a week or so. More drama.
Anyway props to Shinn for a good fight [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] there's probably no one else that could have done it.
Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
@DDBen: All I have to say to you is that you have constantly presented yourself as one who believes that Kira is infallable when compared to Shinn as a pilot, and constantly form very half baked opinions on both Shinn's character, and possibilties in the show. You refuse to acknowledge Shinn in the same leauge of piloting as Rau/Athrun/Kira/Mwu etc, and that skews every attempt of a hypothisis in relation to Kira vs. Shinn.
@iesu 350z: He's making these opinions on the belief that he's stated before that Shinn just can't possibly beat Kira. In the episode33 thread that got deleted, you'd see it for yourself. As for my quote, what the hell are you talking about?
Once again you are quite mistaken on my comments. However I will say this. If you have a extremely successful series such as GS and the Main Character in it who was Kira. Then you have many supporting Characters. The only other character who could be argueably a main character is Athrun as they focused a lot of the story on him as well. Now you make a sequal to the series and you decide to do this after you have basically placed both of these character in situations of living happily ever after(this is shown in the shorts that thye made of the GS characters that took place before GSD was even to be made). Now when making the sequal its unreasonable to then start killing off either of the 2 main characters from the first series who were both very well liked(heck they went as far as to create Neo as a result of killing Mwu being so unpopular I suspect). As such I do not believe when we have confirmed suits that EVERYONE knows about aka Strike Freedom and Infinate Justice that are clearly ment for the 2 main characters from the first series that any director would ever kill off either of these characters before at the very least the last 2 episodes of the series. As a direct result to those facts at this point I see no reasonable way the writers could or would kill off Kira. This results in the fact I believed that IF Freedom was to be destroyed to the point that zaft was convinced it was gone this would either result in another pilot(Neo being the only person on the AA capable of fighting at even a remotely convincing level to that of Kira). So you in turn with this episode have the AA trying to get away without giving Zaft what it wants(which is a excuse to further hunt either the AA or go after Orb(as the pilots from Orb on the AA would make wonderful press for invading the country). This leaves the solution of faking your own death and considering the Captain of the Minerva was also against destroying the AA which we saw absolutely no wreckage for after either blast(so it being hit is made severly unlikely). This in turn results in the fact that as Kira, who is undeniably a increadable pilot at this point, is very unlikely to have freedom destroyed in the manor it was portrayed.
This results in 2 possibilities in my eye's.
1: That the writers have officially decided that Kira has to go and are willing to kill him off in order to make Shinn more popular.
2: The writers wanted to make the AA and Zaft fight seem to be taken care of so they could further the storyline and introduce the new MS's in order to sell more models. The only reason Kira would get a better suit is because he was defeated in freedom. We already know Kira is getting Strike Freedom and if anyone thinks thats a spoiler I'm sorry but to me this is a fact that has been displayed in the series. Unless of course you think Calgari is getting Strike freedom to avenge her brother. So what better thing to do then have Kira fake his death, as done in GS where it wasn't so much faked but after the Athrun/Kira battle he was picked up by Lacus and given Freedom to replace strike. Thus utalizing something you already know your viewers will accept.
To me this doesn't even involve Shinn who at this point is doing nothing but acting completely insane at the moment. I don't disagree that they are depicting him as getting more skillful. I more of see this episode as showing that he's reached the limits of Impulse being useful to him as he's mastered it and it no longer would allow his skills to grow. In doing this they reasonably are able to introduce Destiny which Shinn will be piloting as this is GSD(estiny) and he is the main character. Right now the remaining part of the series is going to be about setting up the final battles and defining where each of the main and sub characters will stand in the final battle.
Shinn is already popular. It's just people has been attached to Kira's "main character" view that they block their view on Shinn's role, therefore unable to recognise him as the main character and treat him as an anti-hero, more on as an antagonist. Others who say that he's evil and all of that crap shows how unjust their feelings toward him and Kira. With Freedom's destruction, the others perhaps hated Shinn even more, and some liked him even more.
When introduced Shinn was really shown as a character who lost everything due to war. At this point in the series most people saw him as a possible hero in the series and yes shinn is absolutely a main character I have never argued this. However, as the series progresses Shinn's actions become more and more disagreeable for the average viewer this is clearly how he is written showing him slowly sinking into a quagmire losing any sense of justice he may have once stood for. The net result is people are going to dislike him more and more on a personal level. I don't personally think he is a badley written character I just happen to feel that he's a slimeball in this anime. A personal dislike or even hatred felt toward a character does not mean that a person can't feel that the character is well designed by the writers. In the end it seems they took a chapter from starwars and made him into Anakin turning into vader. In the end perhaps if he dies he will in turn regain his humanity but at this point even the most avid shinn fan should be able to admit he's been making a misguided fall from grace during this entire series.Quote:
Originally posted by: romancing_xaga
Shinn is already popular. It's just people has been attached to Kira's "main character" view that they block their view on Shinn's role, therefore unable to recognise him as the main character and treat him as an anti-hero, more on as an antagonist. Others who say that he's evil and all of that crap shows how unjust their feelings toward him and Kira. With Freedom's destruction, the others perhaps hated Shinn even more, and some liked him even more.
LOL well kira cannot just die here, he is an important charater that will impact shinn more then anything in the series, if kira dies now the story would just go down hill? probably with a snapped shinn (another stellar) raping everyone! kira needs to come back to give him a good spankingQuote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
@DDBen: All I have to say to you is that you have constantly presented yourself as one who believes that Kira is infallable when compared to Shinn as a pilot, and constantly form very half baked opinions on both Shinn's character, and possibilties in the show. You refuse to acknowledge Shinn in the same leauge of piloting as Rau/Athrun/Kira/Mwu etc, and that skews every attempt of a hypothisis in relation to Kira vs. Shinn.
@iesu 350z: He's making these opinions on the belief that he's stated before that Shinn just can't possibly beat Kira. In the episode33 thread that got deleted, you'd see it for yourself. As for my quote, what the hell are you talking about?
shinns role had bad timing and placement, if it were different shinn would be smothered with fan love love~Quote:
Originally posted by: DDBen
When introduced Shinn was really shown as a character who lost everything due to war. At this point in the series most people saw him as a possible hero in the series and yes shinn is absolutely a main character I have never argued this. However, as the series progresses Shinn's actions become more and more disagreeable for the average viewer this is clearly how he is written showing him slowly sinking into a quagmire losing any sense of justice he may have once stood for. The net result is people are going to dislike him more and more on a personal level. I don't personally think he is a badley written character I just happen to feel that he's a slimeball in this anime. A personal dislike or even hatred felt toward a character does not mean that a person can't feel that the character is well designed by the writers. In the end it seems they took a chapter from starwars and made him into Anakin turning into vader. In the end perhaps if he dies he will in turn regain his humanity but at this point even the most avid shinn fan should be able to admit he's been making a misguided fall from grace during this entire series.Quote:
Originally posted by: romancing_xaga
Shinn is already popular. It's just people has been attached to Kira's "main character" view that they block their view on Shinn's role, therefore unable to recognise him as the main character and treat him as an anti-hero, more on as an antagonist. Others who say that he's evil and all of that crap shows how unjust their feelings toward him and Kira. With Freedom's destruction, the others perhaps hated Shinn even more, and some liked him even more.
I guess my point is to you that you just won't accept option #3 in this. Which is:
3)Kira was surprised and taken down by Shinn, which totaled Freedom. Kira survives (he's had similar impossible brushes with death) this, and is given Strike Freedom after he recovers. No brilliant tactical maneuvering on Kira's part, none of this "give Kira more uberness."
Even the best of people falter every now and then. Do you forget how Freedom got ripped up by the druggies when he stopped focusing on his enemies, but instead on Fllay's escape pod? Kira has shown to be fallible, and that his concern for his sister and the AA could briefly distract him from Shinn, which allowed the final blow, is a much more real and believable assumption than "he faked it."
Honestly, I like Kira for the person he is, but if the writers just start randomly giving him more abilities out of the blue, I'm going to start hating him. He's fine with the few flaws he has, leave him alone >_<
I agree with DDben and jurojin
Kira is def. not dead, there is no evident proof that freedom actually blew up...the parts around impulse are some of freeedom's AND Impulse's PARTs. Impulse is not whole at the end of the ep. Kira is most def. alive. They most likely won't reveal anything relevent about Kira for another two episodes. This will be Athuran's wake up call to reality.
They needed to get rid of Freedom somehow just so Kira could get Strike Freedom. I didn't expect it to happend like this though. I expected Destiny to take out Feedom.
Shinn's role like iesu said above was a t a bad time....
I once looked at shinn as a possible Hero character as well. I used to like him, but his actions make me think oitherwise and I grew to dislike him.Shinn may be popular, but not even close to being as popular as Kira. Plus they both have main character roles. It was already stated by the director that Kira was the main character of GSD and it is obvious that Shinn is as well, but Kira will remain the Hero character of the two main characters of the show...because if you haven't noticed Shinn is going a bit insane. He may come out of it, but there are only 16 eps left...and the last 5 or so will be the final battles not much room for emotional change just hot fights...so technically there will only be like 11 more episodes for Shinn to have a change in mentality. Dullindal is using Shinn and Shinn most lilkely will never realize this because he like worships the guy. Shinn is a main character I agree with you on that, But kira being viewed as a main character also does not block peoples views of Shinn being a main character...because in GS there were TWO main character...so its only fair that in GSD there are TWO...mayb even three if they get athuran to wake up.
sorry for any errors onm spelling ect.
here we go again..with the technicalities..hahahahaha
If Kira was really to DIE, it shouldn't be like that in ep34. If he really died that way, that will probably leave a question in the series......was it a fluke? hahahahhahaha If he should die, they should at least give him a decent battle.
Anyway, writers should really put some specific explanation regarding small details, such as how one survived an unescapable death. How Kira got new abilities..and so on.
It's interesting what kind of character is Shinn, it seem to contradict what viewers should see on him.
Good then perhaps you can start actually reading my posts instead of stating they are random Shinn hate [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]Quote:
Originally posted by: romancing_xaga
basicly I agree with what your saying....
Ya they reallt should be more clear about what is happening. But if Kira was going to die I would expect them to make it more dramatic and actually show some blood and stuff...plus he had a terrible battle. Shinn rocked him even though it was blahh...Episode 35 should be hot though we will finally get to see some new models in action.
After nex episode i jsut can't wait to see strike freedom in action.
Ok, first I'd like to state that while I like Kira's character better, and I dislike Shinn, I think its a good sign that Shinn actually HAS character if we are capable of hating him (We all know of some characters here and there that were so boring we could have cared less).
Yes, Shinn completely beat Kira. I'm don't want to sound like I'm complaining, since I've agreed with the points made on both sides of the argument. Personally I wouldn't have had it any other way, Kira needed a defeat to make him seem less God Like, I would have just expected Kira to do much more damage to Shinn before the explosion took them both out.
About the explosion, I think it is Curium that I agree with. It is not possible for a sword wound anywhere on the Freedom to cause a nuclear explosion, reactors don't work that way, plus the N-Jammer Cancellers, and all the other points already brought up. I think the explosion was caused by Minerva's Tannhauser. The Tannhauser is a Positron Cannon, and a Positron is the Antimatter form of an Electron. Firing something like that on Earth would be dangerous because even our atmoshpere contains a lot of matter as compared to space where the weapon was meant to be used. The ocean contains a lot of mass, so firing an antimatter beam into it would definately create a sizable explosion, and if you look closely you see the minerva turn away from where they fired the Tannhauser and the explosion comes from that direction and hits them on their side.
I agree with that ...but there are a lot of different scenarios that sound realistic. A lot of them have been explained already so there is no point in going into detail....All we know is that kira has a def 95 percent chance to survive...the other 5 percent, who knows the director may just loose it and say lets kill of the most important character in the series. series meaning both GS and GSD
i agree with that...they have to make it so that kira is less perfect...
cause what kira has been doing in gsd has been flawless...
Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
I guess my point is to you that you just won't accept option #3 in this. Which is:
3)Kira was surprised and taken down by Shinn, which totaled Freedom. Kira survives (he's had similar impossible brushes with death) this, and is given Strike Freedom after he recovers. No brilliant tactical maneuvering on Kira's part, none of this "give Kira more uberness."
Even the best of people falter every now and then. Do you forget how Freedom got ripped up by the druggies when he stopped focusing on his enemies, but instead on Fllay's escape pod? Kira has shown to be fallible, and that his concern for his sister and the AA could briefly distract him from Shinn, which allowed the final blow, is a much more real and believable assumption than "he faked it."
Honestly, I like Kira for the person he is, but if the writers just start randomly giving him more abilities out of the blue, I'm going to start hating him. He's fine with the few flaws he has, leave him alone >_<
During the battle Shinn absolutely surprized Kira and him losing one of the wings as well as other things he attemped failed because of it. I'm stating a few simple things here. First Kira can not survive and be anywhere but the AA. Kira would need a means of getting to the AA as it was fleeing and he's not exactly about to tell them to turn around and pick him up. Also while freedom did take damage the pile of parts as stated was from both impulse and freedom. I will say I personally mistook that fact I figured they were all parts to freedom but upon rechecking and noticing that there was no debree near impulse its pretty clear its parts from both Mechs. Now for the final bit of obvious evidence. The parts are all in one place right where Impulse and Freedom last clashed. So if the explosion was Freedom then why was impulse barely moved from that spot while the minerva is notably pushed back. Why are the parts still where Impulse and freedom last clashed as any sort of explosion would have clearly sent these parts EVERYWHERE.
I know kira is alive, but i think this clash will change Kira somehow wake him up. Because if you watch the beginning of the opening it looks like strike freedom is going for the kill. There is a good chance he may give up his no kill policy. I am not sure he is going for a kill there, but it almsot looks like it.
Well... most if it actually is [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]Quote:
Originally posted by: DDBen
Good then perhaps you can start actually reading my posts instead of stating they are random Shinn hate [img][/img]Quote:
Originally posted by: romancing_xaga
basicly I agree with what your saying....
You have come up with some really insane & out-of-character Shinn theories, which I can only see you basing on your hate for him.
Oh great Terra enlighten me as to these out of character theories of mine. Things like Mwu sacrificing himself for the AA are so far from out of character they have already happened. So if you wouldn't mind give me a single theory that was out of character for anyone that I've stated.Quote:
Originally posted by: Terracosmo
You have come up with some really insane & out-of-character Shinn theories, which I can only see you basing on your hate for him.
well read your own posts and you'll find them.... there are som really weird theories in there.
about the freedom explosion you guys should stop saying this and that about nuclear eplosions like your world reknowed experts. leave the damn explosion discussion alone because its not like the writers are experts on nuclear explosion there probbaly just adding it to make the battle go out with a bang. not everything has to make sense in a series also didnt alot of you guys say physics doesnt apply in gsd well will find out later in episode 35
i guess it really is difficult for some people to just agree that maybe Shinn has enough skill to do some damage to Kira
that along side with his brilliant strategy (and yes it was brilliant) and Kira's "i must protect" flaws (if you must call them flaws)
i think it's not more then plain logic that Kira was defeated
true Kira is a remarkable pilot, but Shinn is too
and even the best trip and land on their face atleast once in their life
as for the reactor exploding i have to agree with the fact that a nuclear reactor needs some serious conditions met to explode, and i don't think a "mere" sword strike would be enough reason for it to do so
but most likely we'll find out later in the series exactly what happened (atleast i hope so so this chapter will be closed)
Once again I come on and still see this thread hasn't moved. Atleast the Shinn/Kira is a better pilot discussion ended. I've come to rain on peoples parade and give new info that some seem to have missed.
Sorry to burst peoples bubbles. But from the general community consensus from outside of woot. I have gone over the animation frame by frame. The explosion that really big one is the explosion from Minerva firing the Tannhauser. The final moments of the fight between Impulse and Freedom are occuring the same time as Minerva fires. You can see the beam dissapaiting as the explosion grows. Looks like Freedom doesn't blow up as there is only one explosion and not two. Now how on earth could the Tannhauser create such an explosion not having hit the AA. Well thats whats currently being discussed but the big theory that seems to be going is that when the Tannhauser hit the water it started to evaporate and then ignited the massive amount of hydrogen that was created. In essence a giant hydrogen bomb went off. Freedom and Impulse were pretty far out and closer to the explosion as it envelopes Freedom and Impulse we are left with a crispy Impulse but Freedom has slipped away with a bunch of parts from Freedom and Impulse left behind in the water. Since Shinn survived in his cockpit its safe to assume Kira was pretty well protected in his. Although Freedom won't really be usable. He somehow is apparently gonna get away
SPOILER
The remains of freedom are taken by the EA and used to create the Testament Gundam which will be appearing in Gundam ACE soon. Its featured in Gundam SEED Destiny Astray and is proposed to be built from N Dagger N and Freedom parts. Pretty cool if you ask me
/SPOILER
Oh yeah! I forgot about hydrogen explosions, so yeah I guess it wasn't an artist goof.
well ofcourse Destiny still is an anime (a cartoon if you degrade it)
and basically the creators can do anything they want with that as an excuse
but that's my typical cynical response
q]Originally posted by: Motteh
i guess it really is difficult for some people to just agree that maybe Shinn has enough skill to do some damage to Kira
that along side with his brilliant strategy (and yes it was brilliant) and Kira's "i must protect" flaws (if you must call them flaws)
i think it's not more then plain logic that Kira was defeated
true Kira is a remarkable pilot, but Shinn is too
and even the best trip and land on their face atleast once in their life
as for the reactor exploding i have to agree with the fact that a nuclear reactor needs some serious conditions met to explode, and i don't think a "mere" sword strike would be enough reason for it to do so
but most likely we'll find out later in the series exactly what happened (atleast i hope so so this chapter will be closed)[/quote]
The question here is not does Shinn have skills(for me atleast). As it is very clear that Shinn is Zafts ace at this point and this has been stated by MANY people upto this point. The question is more of if Shinn actually won. The situation ment that Kira's goal was to mearly escape while keeping the AA safe instead of bothering to actually defeat Shinn . The other end of this is Shinn was going all out to defeat Freedom as he currently see's it as the one that killed Stellar.
Now you can either assume at this point that Kira is still alive and that the AA escaped reguardless of exactly how it did it. Please do note that Talia at this point is even questioning and acting against Dullindales orders so its entirely possible she had them fire the Tannhauser meerly to give the Illusion that AA was destroyed so that the battle could be ended while she continues to evaluate the situation. Now in the end if this is the case Kira in fact won the battle by meerly surviving and protecting all those he cared about in the process.
As for Shinn he definatly believes he has killed Kira and avenged Stellar so at this point there is definatly the fact that Shinn does believe he has won the battle and accomplished his goals. This of course will be proven incorrect if Kira does in fact live. In the end Shinn definatly won the battle but its a hollow and incomplete victory.
The questions I have proposed about HOW Kira survives this battle is the main question. I personally happen to give Kira a lot of credit as a pilot, which I find it hard to believe anyone can disagree that Kira is a Super Ace at this point in GSD. Now as such I happen to believe that Kira was also using strategy in this battle and while Shinn was doing his best to win, Kira was only attempting not to lose. In the end Impulse is definatly toast unless they once again have more leg and chest flyers which I find increadably unlikely considering how many he has completely destroyed at this point on a ship that can't even get replacement Zaku's. So in the end to me this battle is at best a draw with both Pilots losing there mechs. On the other hand if you consider the fact that the operation was a complete failure for Zaft with them being unable to accomplish any of there goals dispite a LOT of heavily damaged hardware I happen to believe that this battle turned out as more of a loss for Zaft despite the personal victory Shinn feels he has achieved in avenging Stellar(who died of absolutely nothing and if anyone is really to blame it would be Shinn who in cutting open the cockpit disabled any saftymeasures the suit might have had to prevent her from dying).
I appreciate the fact you actually got some info on this Guardian as this is correct.Quote:
Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
Once again I come on and still see this thread hasn't moved. Atleast the Shinn/Kira is a better pilot discussion ended. I've come to rain on peoples parade and give new info that some seem to have missed.
Sorry to burst peoples bubbles. But from the general community consensus from outside of woot. I have gone over the animation frame by frame. The explosion that really big one is the explosion from Minerva firing the Tannhauser. The final moments of the fight between Impulse and Freedom are occuring the same time as Minerva fires. You can see the beam dissapaiting as the explosion grows. Looks like Freedom doesn't blow up as there is only one explosion and not two. Now how on earth could the Tannhauser create such an explosion not having hit the AA. Well thats whats currently being discussed but the big theory that seems to be going is that when the Tannhauser hit the water it started to evaporate and then ignited the massive amount of hydrogen that was created. In essence a giant hydrogen bomb went off. Freedom and Impulse were pretty far out and closer to the explosion as it envelopes Freedom and Impulse we are left with a crispy Impulse but Freedom has slipped away with a bunch of parts from Freedom and Impulse left behind in the water. Since Shinn survived in his cockpit its safe to assume Kira was pretty well protected in his. Although Freedom won't really be usable. He somehow is apparently gonna get away
I believe I've commented on this before (I don't feel like looking), but look at WHERE Shinn hit Freedom. That is the location where Strike Freedom has a cannon built into it. Personally I believe that Freedom/Kira escaped when Shinn was distracted by the explosion. After this Freedom will obviously need major repairs, and since the suit that beat him is still active they would probably upgrade it. Have to fill in that gap in the torso, might as well add a cannon. At least 1 wing is completely gone, might as well redesign them with a better higher quality HiMAT system.
(I did see your post about the "Testament Gundam" Guardian, but at this time I choose to consider it as a rumor and go with this theory.)
Quote:
Originally posted by: Curium
I believe I've commented on this before (I don't feel like looking), but look at WHERE Shinn hit Freedom. That is the location where Strike Freedom has a cannon built into it. Personally I believe that Freedom/Kira escaped when Shinn was distracted by the explosion. After this Freedom will obviously need major repairs, and since the suit that beat him is still active they would probably upgrade it. Have to fill in that gap in the torso, might as well add a cannon. At least 1 wing is completely gone, might as well redesign them with a better higher quality HiMAT system.
(I did see your post about the "Testament Gundam" Guardian, but at this time I choose to consider it as a rumor and go with this theory.)
what is testament gundam, and about the strike freedom see my post in this thread Spoilers thread
A rumor that has pics coming up in the August Gundam ACE. But if you want to go with that one guys idea. They take the remains and rebuild freedom as it was and give it to Cagalli.
FREEDOM ROUGE!!!
http://www.afterimpact.net/files/freedom_rouge.jpg
This is a shop so don't take it serious
Look at the spoiler in the first post on this page.Quote:
Originally posted by: Millenium-Boyz
what is testament gundam
hi i'm new here so hello all (^_^). what i think happened was that although the impulse did stab freedom, it didn't hit any vital parts like the njc or the cockpit. secondly if that were true, kira might've used the explosion to hide his escape. plus we don't see any of freedom's parts floating in the sea after the explosion. so that's my opinion.
WoW Thnx for the info, is this about ep 34 ? NO ! stop posting freaky deaky spoilers...posst spoilers in the speculation thread !!Quote:
Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
SPOILER
The remains of freedom are taken by the EA and used to create the Testament Gundam which will be appearing in Gundam ACE soon. Its featured in Gundam SEED Destiny Astray and is proposed to be built from N Dagger N and Freedom parts. Pretty cool if you ask me
/SPOILER
Oh my god, give me a fucking break. This is the biggest crock of anime-nerd bullshit I've read in my life. Whoever thought of that stupid, STUPID theory needs to get his/her face beaten in with a brick.Quote:
Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
...Well thats whats currently being discussed but the big theory that seems to be going is that when the Tannhauser hit the water it started to evaporate and then ignited the massive amount of hydrogen that was created. In essence a giant hydrogen bomb went off...
Hey guys I am new to this but I found some interesting information.
http://final.exteen.com/
It is spoilers on the next 5 espisodes
Sorry mimidood but i think this is not a spoiler thread, and also your post have no relation at all to episode 34Quote:
Originally posted by: mimidood
Hey guys I am new to this but I found some interesting information.
http://final.exteen.com/
It is spoilers on the next 5 espisodes
but thanks a lot anyway im so happy to see the spoiler and i cant wait till episode 37 as i am a big fans of Kira and ZGMF-X20A, and are you sure that this spoiler is 100% accurate, because i have read other spoilers that said different things
these spoilers conflict with another set of spoilers also they really do seem fake real fake but thats just my opinionQuote:
Originally posted by: mimidood
Hey guys I am new to this but I found some interesting information.
http://final.exteen.com/
It is spoilers on the next 5 espisodes
I second that motion, they do sound like an opinion and not truth...Quote:
Originally posted by: Dannynonsense
these spoilers conflict with another set of spoilers also they really do seem fake real fake but thats just my opinionQuote:
Originally posted by: mimidood
Hey guys I am new to this but I found some interesting information.
http://final.exteen.com/
It is spoilers on the next 5 espisodes
@DDBen
Ok, crack-brained theories you've shared...
"Neo/Mwu pilot's Freedom to its destruction, and dies with it. (If the pilot had to die)"
Like it's been said before, there is NO plausible reason to let Neo/Mwu pilot Freedom at this time. Maybe later in the series, IF he gets his memories back, that could be a possibility, he takes a spare MS in AA's hanger and saved the day. But right now, even if he had gone "I remember everything!" it's too soon for them to trust him enough to give him the keys to one of the most powerful Gundams in existence. You HAVE to admit that the AA's crew is NOT stupid enough to just go "He looks and acts like Mwu, and he says he remembers everything. We'll just forget everything he's done for the EAF, and while we're at it, let him pilot Freedom to defend us, even though Kira is the superior pilot, and we'll just flat out ignore the possibility that he could be faking remembering just to escape." Theory debunked.
"Kira let Shinn beat him to let the AA escape, faking his own destruction."
I'm going to say it only this once- PLEASE for the love of whatever deities are out there, stop god-modding Kira. He's uber enough as he is, even if he can be beaten by Shinn once. To start tossing in crap like "They planned to fake his death in a split second" is only an attempt to rationalize that Shinn can't possibly beat Kira honestly, and it takes more and more away from Kira being human- yes, he's the UC, but that doesn't mean he's infallible. He can be beaten, he has been beaten, and for all of his strengths, he's only human.
"Shinn gave Stellar to Neo to pass the buck and not feel responsible. He could have come along and stolen the tech needed to keep Stellar alive."
>_< God I hate this one. Yes Shinn is an ass, I won't deny it- but now you're calling him a coward, and for some reason you want to think that he has the technical know-how to know what is needed to keep Stellar alive, when people with more medical training who were given access to the lab's database couldn't do anything for her. That's not even realistic, now it's like you're trying to god-mod Shinn to show that he's just trying to sluff off the responsibility. I.e. say he's capable of more than he really is so you can try to legitably say "Shinn's just trying to get out of feeling responsible for Stellar."
Anyone (other than DDBen) think I'm off base for saying that these aren't even remote possibilities?
Hell no. I was just gonna type up the whole list of insane Ben theories myself, but you beat me to it.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
Anyone (other than DDBen) think I'm off base for saying that these aren't even remote possibilities?
I agree with every word. Couldn't have said it better myself.
First off this theory had a very simple requirement. That requirement was if in episode 34 Freedom was destroyed and the pilot was killed. If for whatever reason Mwu regained his memories and someone had to die he was simply the only truely expendable character. He's a EA officer so its not like they would let him surrender or escape and Shinn would certainly have a lot more reason to kill him. Also please note when the first half of the battles in this episode were simply removed this was no longer a possibility so your arguing a absolutely dead point here.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
@DDBen
Ok, crack-brained theories you've shared...
"Neo/Mwu pilot's Freedom to its destruction, and dies with it. (If the pilot had to die)"
Like it's been said before, there is NO plausible reason to let Neo/Mwu pilot Freedom at this time. Maybe later in the series, IF he gets his memories back, that could be a possibility, he takes a spare MS in AA's hanger and saved the day. But right now, even if he had gone "I remember everything!" it's too soon for them to trust him enough to give him the keys to one of the most powerful Gundams in existence. You HAVE to admit that the AA's crew is NOT stupid enough to just go "He looks and acts like Mwu, and he says he remembers everything. We'll just forget everything he's done for the EAF, and while we're at it, let him pilot Freedom to defend us, even though Kira is the superior pilot, and we'll just flat out ignore the possibility that he could be faking remembering just to escape." Theory debunked.
You are misquoting this entirely. I stated that Shinn got in some hits on freedom the most relevant being destroying the wing. However, That when Shinn stabbed Freedom Kira diverted the blade to a nonvital location and used the chance of Impulse being at extremely close range and unable to dodge to take out the sensors on Impulse (namely chopping off the head and arm which is clearly shown). This final movement was made by Kira expressly to escape withough giving Zaft what they wanted.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
"Kira let Shinn beat him to let the AA escape, faking his own destruction."
I'm going to say it only this once- PLEASE for the love of whatever deities are out there, stop god-modding Kira. He's uber enough as he is, even if he can be beaten by Shinn once. To start tossing in crap like "They planned to fake his death in a split second" is only an attempt to rationalize that Shinn can't possibly beat Kira honestly, and it takes more and more away from Kira being human- yes, he's the UC, but that doesn't mean he's infallible. He can be beaten, he has been beaten, and for all of his strengths, he's only human.
This is a fact not a theory unless of course you can show me any part where Shinn blames himself or Neo for what Stellar was doing with Destroy. Shinn has never once blamed himself for any of his own actions in the entire series. The only argueable exception to this is when his famil initially got killed and the joke is thats the only time he didn't actually cause the problem in the first place.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
"Shinn gave Stellar to Neo to pass the buck and not feel responsible. He could have come along and stolen the tech needed to keep Stellar alive."
>_< God I hate this one. Yes Shinn is an ass, I won't deny it- but now you're calling him a coward, and for some reason you want to think that he has the technical know-how to know what is needed to keep Stellar alive, when people with more medical training who were given access to the lab's database couldn't do anything for her. That's not even realistic, now it's like you're trying to god-mod Shinn to show that he's just trying to sluff off the responsibility. I.e. say he's capable of more than he really is so you can try to legitably say "Shinn's just trying to get out of feeling responsible for Stellar."
I don't believe a single one of these is either insane or out of character for ANY of those in GSD and I fully stand by them. Note the first was a scenario that involved several things happening that never took place and thus the scenario had no place. They rushed the battle between Impulse and Freedom to the point that this episode lacked atleast 15 minutes of the battle that would have taken place before Minerva managed to show up.
No, it's not a dead point, the point is that you made up something that had only ONE thing going for it, Neo/Mwu's expendability, which I don't disagree with you on- but the rest of the variables which should be utter common sense to you should tell you that there's not a point in bringing it up- there is NO possible way that Neo/Mwu could have gotten into Freedom in ANY scenario, and your stubbornness to admit that is appalling.
You're God-modding Kira again. As a pilot, I'm sure he could have done enough of a deflection to not get himself killed- but the notion he did it for anything other than self-preservation is ludicrous! How the heck can you honestly say this was going on in his mind: "Well, I can't avoid this attack, but I can disable Impulse to where they can't see what happens to me, and I'll be able to get away with the AA." Shinn gave Kira little time to do much of anything but react, especially with Kira's attention split b/w the AA getting shot up, and Impulse going at him full fury.
Beginning of episode 33, before the OC, Shinn puts Stellar's body into the lake. He cries for the loss, and he also, while crying, apologizes to Stellar for not protecting her, for not keeping her safe. THERE. PROOF that he does at least feel partly responsible.
The first one remains a dead issue and I'm not wasting my time arguing over something that isn't going to take place considering what happened.
Think about this rationally instead of simply sitting here humping a Shinn doll. Kira would know weather or not such a sword would pierce freedom. For the simple reason that Sword Strike used a similar weapon. So why would he block with a shield if he knew it was futile.. Why would he aim for the head of Impulse instead of the sword (in order to deflect it from piercing the shield and why would he take the sword into the gut of freedom for absolutely no reason. I'm sorry but considering Kira's skills shown throught both series there is absolutely no reason he couldn't have dodged the sword or the previous boomarang. He was not fighting back on purpose and if you've seen the Sub you should certainly know that one by now. So as soon as you can give me a answer as to how Freedom could escape without using ANY strategy at all in the battle and I'll be happy to concede that Kira is a bumbling idiot who has simply gotten by on his good looks and never shown a ounce of skill.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
You're God-modding Kira again. As a pilot, I'm sure he could have done enough of a deflection to not get himself killed- but the notion he did it for anything other than self-preservation is ludicrous! How the heck can you honestly say this was going on in his mind: "Well, I can't avoid this attack, but I can disable Impulse to where they can't see what happens to me, and I'll be able to get away with the AA." Shinn gave Kira little time to do much of anything but react, especially with Kira's attention split b/w the AA getting shot up, and Impulse going at him full fury.
He did indeed responsible for not protecting her from KIRA. This is differn't from simply not protecting her. At this point he felt Neo was dead and that Kira was responsable for killing Stellar. This is very differn't from Shinn feeling bad about him returning her to the EA, blaming Neo for forcing her to fight again or blaming Stellar for having just killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of people. His actions and so called remorse was just him reasoning how to blame someone else for what happened and not take any responsability for it. If you can seriously tell me that Destroy didn't need to go then your simply insane. The fact remains Kira took out destroy without taking out the cockpit in the process. This means the only possibility of how stellar died lies in the hole that Shinn himself cut in the cockpit meaning the only reason she died were Shinns actions and not Kira's which he has absolutely not taken resonsability for.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
Beginning of episode 33, before the OC, Shinn puts Stellar's body into the lake. He cries for the loss, and he also, while crying, apologizes to Stellar for not protecting her, for not keeping her safe. THERE. PROOF that he does at least feel partly responsible.
Your Neo/Mwu theory that he will pilot Freedom was wishful thinking.
Shinn gave Stellar back to EAF because he could do nothing to help her, and she was dieing. He gave her back because he was not a scientist, did not have the necessary equipment to help her, and he wanted her to live because he loved her [or at least had a strong crush on her]. I don't think Shinn would go through all this trouble just "to pass the buck and not feel responsible" if it could mean getting killed himself by disobeying orders.
Why would kira have aimed for Impulse's main camera and not something else? Throughout all of 34 Kira is trying to defend AA. Thats was his priority. Cagalli must get to ORB. The fact that he sent the text message makes me think he knew he wasn't going with them. If he had communicated via voice or AV he would have had to deal with whatever response they had. Plus it would of been more of a distraction with Shinn who was pressing harder and harder. Kira always seems to have a reason for his actions. Hes not going to do a 180 either. Freedom and AA are major targets in this war now that the Chairman has made his speech. This may have been what Cagalli and Kira feared in 33. If you rewatch the Impulse vs Freedom fight the ending could of gone differently in a couple ways. All Kira did thou was wait for Shinn to come in with the attack thou and take out his head and main camera as the Minerva's attack had that huge explosion. In the end we're left with a scrapped Impulse and a missing Freedom.
As for my spoiler Madell it has everything to do with 34 because its 34's events that lead to that outcome. I can always change it to say that its a Destiny Astray spoiler.
Screw it, you're not worth my time. I've already told you why Kira couldn't dodge, you're forfeiting on the first point because you know you can't win, and I'll leave you to your Shinn-burning and your wet dreams with Kira-kun.
Anyways:
Will Gladys get in trouble with Dullindal for giving AA a chance to escape? The orders, at least from the ZAFT ground commander, seemed to be "Sink the AA." Since it seems pretty clear that her attempt at diplomacy is what let the AA hit the water, Any repercussions? Or will her FAITH status exempt her from even the Chairman's wrath? Or will he even get angry, instead just going "Eh, it's ok- now give me some sugar." @ Gladys?
No because...you'r talking about future epi's not about epi 34 [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]Quote:
Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
As for my spoiler Madell it has everything to do with 34 because its 34's events that lead to that outcome. I can always change it to say that its a Destiny Astray spoiler.
sub or raw version of episode 34 has come out...onli those who never watch before would consider it as a spoiler...
but the future episode...everyone had never watch before...aint this make it a spoiler too... -_-
i watch the episode...kira could have dodge even tho he was distracted by the arch angel...
but why did the freedom instead of dodging or shut down his thruster and charge towards the impulse...
he had the time to charge...why did not he dodge -_-
Actually his spoiler had nothing to do with GSD at all. Its not a spoiler to say freedom had wreckage or Kira survives as its easily interpreted by the beginning and ending. With the exception of if your crazy enough to think Calgari gets Strik Freedom.Quote:
Originally posted by: Madell
No because...you'r talking about future epi's not about epi 34 [img][/img]Quote:
Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
As for my spoiler Madell it has everything to do with 34 because its 34's events that lead to that outcome. I can always change it to say that its a Destiny Astray spoiler.
@Digigirl and Jurojin
The first Theory in question never had a chance to take place the sacriice of freedom was not needed and they never showed Kira launching in this episode so why would they use any other pilot they simply skipped the section that this scenario which was one of many I put out each which had SPECIFIC requirements for them to take place.
As for Shinn please tell me any example of him obeying orders or taking responsability for what he's done at anyplace in the series post the battle where they left Orb. Shinn has changed a lot during the series he disobey's orders because he thinks he's right. He felt that by giving Stellar back to Neo he could in his world get her off the battlefield and out of his way as he did not want to fight her. So yes by giving her to Neo he was attempting to purely make it easier for him to kill without remorse. I don't deney he had feelings for Stellar in my opinion his feelings were more of romantic while hers were more of big brother who is going to protect me. Note that Stellar's romantic interest has been portrayed as Neo who she always calls for first and who she would do anything for atleast in my opinion.
So in the end dump Stellar on Neo to get her out of the way. Thats all that Shinn did and upon finding Neo broke his promise Shinn does not blame Neo at all there was absolutely zero mention. Instead he blames Kira for saving his life.
Man if Kira had the intent to kill, Shinn would have died. But nevertheless, Shinn did know what he was doing. Finally showed the advantages of being able to detach and such.
thats the kira we know =D
lolz...i like it when kira thought it is over after chopping of the head and the hand and going to move towards AA i think
out of the blue...impulse detach and its body goes flying towards freedom lolz
Right, as Knowing Talia and Her character and fact he realizes who Ramius was when they replied her call and considering fact more than 90% was submerged, ArchAngel is not destroyed and I think Tännhausers firecontrol did missed bit so ArchAngel is not destroyed, even everybody thinks so. Kira survived Nuclear explosion when Athrun self detonated Aegis in SEED, this situation is similar. Freedom is seemed to be trashed and destroyed and Kira dead but soon he will appear in Strike Freedom. Of course you guys think Kira might have died but Shinns sword did not hit Freedoms cockpit but below it... And If Kira would have died it would have showed it beyond a doubt. Blood gushing out of mouth ( Nichol, Heine etc... ) So, Kira will be back and improved... ArchAngel and Kira survived. That is for sure. Bandai plays for safe and cannot allow that numerous main characters die at this point of story, it would be disaster for marketing and would be quite bad for SEED syndication... Its just classical cliffhanger they used earlier in SEED... ArchAngel and Kira will be back later kicking butts...
Dodging would have been easy. All he had to do was turn Freedom off and let Gravity do the work.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
Screw it, you're not worth my time. I've already told you why Kira couldn't dodge
just to be a smartass - Aegis couldn't ever produce a nuclear explosion unless it shot a nuclear missileQuote:
Originally posted by: thejamppa
Kira survived Nuclear explosion when Athrun self detonated Aegis in SEED, this situation is similar.
which at that point of the story wasn't possible cause the Neutron Jammer Canceller would only be on blueprints
and not yet build
i disagreeQuote:
Originally posted by: Curium
Dodging would have been easy. All he had to do was turn Freedom off and let Gravity do the work.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
Screw it, you're not worth my time. I've already told you why Kira couldn't dodge
i interpreted the events as such: Tannhauser was fired, Shinn gets his sword, Kira looks at the Tannhauser beam approaching ArchAngel, Shinn charges in, Kira looks back at Impulse only to see it speeding towards him
now let's say Kira turned the thrusters off at that point, even then i highly doubt it would've been in time to let Freedom drop totally out of range of Shinn's charge
i think that if he would've turned it off things would've been more disastrous as Freedom would've been struck higher and thus closer to the cockpit
but that's just my interpretation of things
more spoilers
phase 39's title is a character's name with 5 words
That is a very long name.
not really...there are 2 ppl with a name with 5 words....Quote:
Originally posted by: XwingRob
That is a very long name.
Quote:
Originally posted by: Millenium-Boyz
Sorry mimidood but i think this is not a spoiler thread, and also your post have no relation at all to episode 34Quote:
Originally posted by: mimidood
Hey guys I am new to this but I found some interesting information.
http://final.exteen.com/
It is spoilers on the next 5 espisodes
but thanks a lot anyway im so happy to see the spoiler and i cant wait till episode 37 as i am a big fans of Kira and ZGMF-X20A, and are you sure that this spoiler is 100% accurate, because i have read other spoilers that said different things
I hear they are accurate. Gunota headlines has a lot to do with NewType magazine ...right? and they had a link to this guys site ... http://aeug.blogspot.com/
Also Kira is alive. its obviuos that he is...even with out spoilers. Kira def.. espcaped somehow.
The title will most likely be Lacus.
*coughs* You mean letters right?*coughs* [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]Quote:
Originally posted by: PTX-003C-SP1
not really...there are 2 ppl with a name with 5 words....Quote:
Originally posted by: XwingRob
That is a very long name.
i think he doesQuote:
Originally posted by: XwingRob
*coughs* You mean letters right?*coughs* [img][/img]Quote:
Originally posted by: PTX-003C-SP1
not really...there are 2 ppl with a name with 5 words....Quote:
Originally posted by: XwingRob
That is a very long name.
cause i can't even think of 1 name with 5 words, let alone 2
People this is not a thread for random spoilers so stop hinting at mentioning or quoting spoilers to any episode in GSD beyond 34
Shiin isn't looking to fix his losses with force, he's looking for revenge plain and simple. The sad thing is he doesn't understand who's at fault for the death of his family. He just wants someone to blame. Orb has always been his enemy since his family died before and after they joined the EAF, it just made it easier for him to kill somone when they joined the battles. He's never said if he's ever had any ideals on freedom or war ending, he just wants a never ending battle. He blames Kira for killing Stellar and yet doesn't want to take any responsibilty for returning her to the enemy that put her in a mobile suit in the first place. If you know the EAF can't be trusted then why return her. Shinn is a little immature. He isn't protecting anything or anyone. I'm a soldier in the military and I know from being in Iraq, if a soldier doesn't have something he's fighting for or someone to protect then he's no longer a soldier, he's a murderer.
Being a soldier in the Army, we are taught blindly following orders doesn't make it right. There are always orders you know to follow or disobey. Heck he didn't even follow simple rules of engagement. Shinn could have tried to take the time to figure another way of capturing Kira but chose revenge. I mean come on do you think if he was given orders to take them alive he would've. I've had friends and family members lose there lives in war but blind rage doesn't solve anything, it just gets more people hurt. Shinn hasn't thought about it but he's just as bad a person as the mobile suit pilots that killed his family. He's killed someone's father, brother etc... Shinn is a superb pilot. How hard could it be to disable a moblie suit if Kira and Athrun can do it. He doesn't even care that Stellar left hundreds in worse condition. Don't get me wrong, I thought Shinn was an ok character at first until I noticed he doesn't believe in anything except vengance. If someone showed him what he was doing I'm think he may change his ways.
the death of shinn family causes him to be sort of loner...
it causes shinn to think/act differently from those with family...family love o.O
he was just a little young 14 years old boy...who have mayu,his father and his mother and their love
living in a world that was filled with happiness
but however...its too sudden that all your family members around you have died in an INSTANT...
its too much for shiinn to handle...causes him to see life negatively...
causing him to see things in hatred instead of understanding/concern/love
shinn actually love orb and have faith in orb when his 14 and orb idealism
shinn parents also believe that they would not got into war as long they r in orb
the hatred against orb was due to his faith and love for orb...
in one episode i do remembing athrun said that something like
shinn blaming on orb aint it because of the faith shinn put in orb
the only way to prevent stellar from dying is to return stellar back to EAF...
and when you saw your love ones dying...you would not consider what would she do in the future...
the only thing you think off is whether she could stay alive for now
the only thing shinn tries to protect is stellar...
stellar causes a big change in shinn for the first time that shinn actually tried to protect someone...
also its true that kira killedied to fire and killed three towns o stellar only because stellar trf civilians and who can say its wrong
but its only natural that you blame the one who causes her death directly(your love ones) somemore
when your love ones death, i dont believe you would be bother to consider who kill her indirectly
but you would hate and wants to kill the one who causes her/his death directly thus its kira
Actually Shinn was mearly hoping by giving Stellar back to Neo that someone else would protect her as he is simply not the kind of guy who protects anything. Unless you can give me a better reason for him giving Neo that shiney thing Stellar gave him. This was a action made by Shinn to forget about Stellar and move on with his revenge. The fact before Stellar was put in Destroy that her memory was not altered and that she was allowed to wear the thingy as a pendant is a really wierd move that Neo made considering it would obviously be capable of downgrading her ability to use destroy VS the Minerva which at the current time is the Flagship of Zaft.Quote:
Originally posted by: qilinkiddo
the only way to prevent stellar from dying is to return stellar back to EAF...
and when you saw your love ones dying...you would not consider what would she do in the future...
the only thing you think off is whether she could stay alive for now
This is the main reason why I have previously stated that Shinn was not trying to protect Stellar with his actions. If Shinn had kept the pendant and recalled that he was fighting so people wouldn't have to suffer like Stellar has.
Okay DDBen we know that you don't like Shinn but that doesn't make him totally selfish and revenge driven. I don't know what you are trying to pull with your posts, maybe a Shinn bashing marathon? We get it already you hate the guy, okey!
He gave Stellar back to Neo because he thought that was the best solution at the moment. How would Shinn know that Neo was going to put Stellar into a new unit and make her fight again? It was better to give her back to Neo and hope that he kept his promise since the other alternative was to let her be killed and used by ZAFT. While im at it i'll say that Shinn had no idea that Neo's Windam was the only operational suit on the EAF ship so he couldn't just have gone there and taken the necessary equipment to keep Stellar alive and leave.
Nope he didn't know that for a fact but he also didn't even try to do it. That is meerly one of several things he could have attempted. Also PSJ give me a reason he gave her the thingy in the jar when he gave her back. The first time they meet she gave it to him and he kept it hoping to see her again. When on the other hand he gave her back to Neo he passed off everything that could remind him of her.Quote:
Originally posted by: PSJ
Okay DDBen we know that you don't like Shinn but that doesn't make him totally selfish and revenge driven. I don't know what you are trying to pull with your posts, maybe a Shinn bashing marathon? We get it already you hate the guy, okey!
He gave Stellar back to Neo because he thought that was the best solution at the moment. How would Shinn know that Neo was going to put Stellar into a new unit and make her fight again? It was better to give her back to Neo and hope that he kept his promise since the other alternative was to let her be killed and used by ZAFT. While im at it i'll say that Shinn had no idea that Neo's Windam was the only operational suit on the EAF ship so he couldn't just have gone there and taken the necessary equipment to keep Stellar alive and leave.
Also for the love of all that is holy people I don't like Shinn's characters actions in the anime but I do not hate the guys writing. I personally couldn't care less if he lives or dies I'm simply stating how I interpret the meaning behind his actions at any given time. I don't have Kira plushies all over my room for me to hug and Shinn ones to take out back and shoot. Also PSJ you have stated my EXACT position on Shinn, in the thread about the theory of Shinn haters VS Kira Lovers, word for word of the one I've stated.
Shinns character remains completely driven by revenge what he's avenging has changed from time to time but in the end his only motivation is to avange and in no way protect anything.
edit: I mentioned the wrong thread up above and changed it to the correct one.
The fact that you think someone that is desperately trying to save a loved ones life is capable of thinking clearly just shows how much thought you gave this. Shinn for the first time in his life since his beloved sister and family died had someone he loved and "loved" him back. This made him do what he did he tried his best to save her, he is a 16 year old boy not god. Everybody does mistakes and questionable things.
As for the post i did, first of all it's in this discussion. Second with that post i think it clearly states that he cares about Stellar enough to do something totally against the army code. However i do agree that it supports your thoughts a little to much, i dislike Shinn like shit on my shoe. That could be the reason why that post came out the way it did, which was the wrong way.
I wonder if there's anyone here who actually thinks DDBen's Shinn theories make sense.
Quote:
Originally posted by: PSJ
The fact that you think someone that is desperately trying to save a loved ones life is capable of thinking clearly just shows how much thought you gave this. Shinn for the first time in his life since his beloved sister and family died had someone he loved and "loved" him back. This made him do what he did he tried his best to save her, he is a 16 year old boy not god. Everybody does mistakes and questionable things.
As for the post i did, first of all it's in this discussion. Second with that post i think it clearly states that he cares about Stellar enough to do something totally against the army code. However i do agree that it supports your thoughts a little to much, i dislike Shinn like shit on my shoe. That could be the reason why that post came out the way it did, which was the wrong way.
I have absolutely no disagreement what so ever that Shinn's actions were all he could come up with doing. Arguing that it was anything less then routine for Shinn to disobey direct orders is absolutely pointless as the guy does nothing he's told reguardless of who outranks him. Exactly what I'm saying is Shinn when he gave her to Neo absolutely wanted to believe that she would go off to a bunny farm to live a life without war. However, I don't think there was a romantic love between Stellar and Shinn much more a brother sister vibe. In my world Stellars love interest always was Neo not Shinn and that she cared about Shinn in the way you would look upto a big brother who protects you from harm. The point that is once he gave back Stellar Shinn expected never to see her again he was also doing his best to forget about it and was trying to convince himself that she would goto said "bunny farm". This line of thinking that Stellar, who is nothing more then a tool of war as she can not live without drugs and was made that way only to fight, would never have to fight again however is very childish and naive. This just shows the immaturity of his character. The point is this move nomatter where Stellar ended up was made so that he could forget about her because he didn't want to admit to himself he was not strong enough or capable enough to do what he would need to in order to truely protect her. Then the fact he blames Kira for killing her and not himself or Neo. I don't think anyone can disagree Kira is at best third in line for the death of Stellar.
I find it hard to believe you guys have such a hard time making sense of them. While they might be a bit extreme, they are certainly a valid pyschological assesment of Shinn's actions.Quote:
Originally posted by: Terracosmo
I wonder if there's anyone here who actually thinks DDBen's Shinn theories make sense.
Dont forget, Shinn is 16. he's a child. And Children dont really have the greatest grasp on huge emotional issues. He started being screwed up beyond belief the moment his family died and he didn't (survivors guilt, anyone?). His next action, joining up with the one military group who wasn't involved in his loss, isn't exactly the most rational choice.
When he met Stelllar.... well, what could he be thinking? He rescues a pretty girl, who seems confused and scared. One who takes her clothes off in front of him. What is he supposed to be thinking at this point. Stellar was an emotional three year old, and I find it hard to argue differently. While she likes Shinn, I bet she would have liked any fireman or rescue worker who pulled her out of the ocean, told her everything was fine, and that they were going ot protect her just as well. Shinn is just attracted to the fact that she genuinely likes him (and she does).
When Shinn passes Stellar back to Neo, it is a bit of a Copout. He knows he cant protect her, so he passes her off to someone who can. He knows she is probably going ot be jsut as abused by the EAF (he saw what they did to the Extended in those labs, rememeber? I dont Imagine it was any better than what ZAFT had in Store), so he makes Neo make a promise that he (Shinn) knows Neo cant keep. To make himself feel better. Amazingly enough, Neo apparently does try to keep his promise, by putting Stellar in Destroy (better than Chaos... I dont believe Stellar was the better candidate than Sting, I think Neo wanted her to be safe). Notice, more evidence of Stellars 3 year old emotional personality. "Scary things are coming, and we are all gonna die if Stellar doesn't kill them" is the type of thing you'd tell a 3 year old with a gun, not a soldier.
Then, when Stellar dies, Shinn doesn't try to come to terms with the fact that his hesitation costed innocent lives. The fact that Stellar, whom he was trying to protect, was now a murderer of hundreds of thousands of people. Or that, had he not given stellar back to the EAF, millions would not now be forced from their homes and likely to die from a lack of food, shelter, and god knows what else.
No, he decides to blame Kira for Stellars death.
It seems to me that Shinn is incapable of taking responsibilty for his actions, and that hasn't changed at any point in the series.
Oh well, dont take this as Shinn bashing, because to me its not. I think the fact that such an in depth pyschological evaluation of Shinn is possible is a testament to how well his character is written, and in my mind that is how characters are first judged. The fact that I hate the character comes much later in the evaluation.
Kefka was an asshole, but I still think he was the coolest damned villain of all time.
i'm not PSJ but i will give a reasonQuote:
Originally posted by: DDBen
Also PSJ give me a reason he gave her the thingy in the jar when he gave her back.
ever considered the fact he gave to her in the hope that it would help her remind him?
he also said that "she liked it" to Neo when he gave it to her
plus the fact that he added "don't forget about me" right before he ran back to his MS and whiping the tears from his eyes
also DDBen, it's funny how every 3rd or 4th post of you is the almost the same
the phrase "i don't like his actions but i don't dislike the way he's written" comes up every single time
don't you think we know you think that way after 4 times?
Nope actually I don't see that reasoning as valid at all as last time he gave her something aka the hankerchief that she was holding onto after there first meeting she was brain wiped and it was taken away.Quote:
Originally posted by: Motteh
i'm not PSJ but i will give a reasonQuote:
Originally posted by: DDBen
Also PSJ give me a reason he gave her the thingy in the jar when he gave her back.
ever considered the fact he gave to her in the hope that it would help her remind him?
he also said that "she liked it" to Neo when he gave it to her
plus the fact that he added "don't forget about me" right before he ran back to his MS and whiping the tears from his eyes
also DDBen, it's funny how every 3rd or 4th post of you is the almost the same
the phrase "i don't like his actions but i don't dislike the way he's written" comes up every single time
don't you think we know you think that way after 4 times?
please read MeroTZ post above yours as it is well written and also states many of the points I have made quite well perhaps in a much better organised way then I have managed at a few point.
Also the reason I have repeated myself in such a manor is because of certain close minded morons who keep accusing everyone who disagree's with them of having a hatred of Shinn and love of Kira.
We've only had, what, 2 episodes after her death? So far he's been concentrating on Kira. Now that Kira is out of the picture (as far as he knows) MAYBE he'll reflect on things. You people aren't even giving him a chance.
He gave Stellar the shell peice to help her remember him- matter of fact, that was what he said when he did give her to Neo.
I just find this "He could have stolen equipment" line to be utter crap. Shinn is NOT a medical scientist- he would have less of a clue than any of you on what would be needed to keep her alive, and none of you can honestly say what would be needed for her.
Saying it's a copout to give Stellar to people that can keep her alive is utterly heartless, especially in Shinn's case. Leaving her on the Minerva to die was not an option: If it were someone YOU cared for, would you just sit there and watch her writhe and twist and gasp from all the pain and suffering her body was going through? Or would you give her the ONLY chance, no matter how remote, at living she had?
This is even more compounded for Shinn, since he's already had his entire family wiped out in front of him. Leaving her to die scared and in pain is as horrifying to him as it should be to any sane person.
DDBen: The only reason you think MeroTZ's post is well-written is because it's the first one ever (hopefully) that agrees with your theories.
Anyone who thinks like you two do are overanalyzing like hell, even throwing in insignificant factors such as his age. As if age even means shit in anime...
There is no sense behind it. Everything we need to know has been portrayed in the show. If Shinn even had the slightest secret plan of destinies to "get rid of" Stellar by giving her to Neo, the show would have told us. Now can't people just shut up and stop making up bullshit?
And yet he had time to study and reason out a way to defeat Freedom. He chose not to reflect on her death, and that is what the obvious problem is.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
We've only had, what, 2 episodes after her death? So far he's been concentrating on Kira. Now that Kira is out of the picture (as far as he knows) MAYBE he'll reflect on things. You people aren't even giving him a chance.
True. He gave it to her in front of an enemy with a vested interest in her not remembering him.Quote:
He gave Stellar the shell peice to help her remember him- matter of fact, that was what he said when he did give her to Neo.
Absolutely!Quote:
I just find this "He could have stolen equipment" line to be utter crap. Shinn is NOT a medical scientist- he would have less of a clue than any of you on what would be needed to keep her alive, and none of you can honestly say what would be needed for her.
Except he knows what the EAF has done to Extended. He has seen the labs. And he knows that eventual death and research on her body are in fact not worse than the potential horrors that the EAF might visit on an Extended subject with protracted withdrawal from their machines. He should have known that he was probably delivering her to worse suffering than she was already in, but he chose to ignore that possibility.Quote:
Saying it's a copout to give Stellar to people that can keep her alive is utterly heartless, especially in Shinn's case. Leaving her on the Minerva to die was not an option: If it were someone YOU cared for, would you just sit there and watch her writhe and twist and gasp from all the pain and suffering her body was going through? Or would you give her the ONLY chance, no matter how remote, at living she had?
Except that a sane person would first have confronted the captain. Maybe used some of that clout he gains by being a "Super Ace" to rouse some support for Stellars human rights. There were a lot of other options (god forbid he listen to their rationale on how studying stellar might save lives in the future) but he chose one that was liekly to lead to several deaths (namely those of Zaft pilots) and in fact lead to the slaughter of thousands (maybe millions) of innocent lives.Quote:
This is even more compounded for Shinn, since he's already had his entire family wiped out in front of him. Leaving her to die scared and in pain is as horrifying to him as it should be to any sane person.
Shinn did not make a sane choice. To quote that old knight guy in Indiana Jones 3, "He chose poorly"
EDIT: In response to Terra's previous post, I think you are doing a great disservice to the writers by ignoring the sublties they have built into the show.
Taking things at face value is rarely the best idea.
So Terra is this anything like you saying you had to much respect for the writers to believe Neo was Mwu because it was to obvious. Yet now you state that the writers have to spell everything out in minute detail for it to be true.Quote:
Originally posted by: Terracosmo
DDBen: The only reason you think MeroTZ's post is well-written is because it's the first one ever (hopefully) that agrees with your theories.
Anyone who thinks like you two do are overanalyzing like hell, even throwing in insignificant factors such as his age. As if age even means shit in anime...
There is no sense behind it. Everything we need to know has been portrayed in the show. If Shinn even had the slightest secret plan of destinies to "get rid of" Stellar by giving her to Neo, the show would have told us. Now can't people just shut up and stop making up bullshit?
I happen to give the writers proper credit for doing research and showing things as they would happen in real life. This may be a anime but its one thats based on reality and the horrors of war. Simply go make up your mind before posting things that completely contradict arguements you're already trying to make.
This is correct he is not a scientist, however, this is no less likely to work then giving her back to Neo to make her fight. In the end none of the choices were good its just the fact that the choice he made was to have someone else take care of it.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
I just find this "He could have stolen equipment" line to be utter crap. Shinn is NOT a medical scientist- he would have less of a clue than any of you on what would be needed to keep her alive, and none of you can honestly say what would be needed for her.
While that may be true from an outside perspective, thats not is what is in question here. Im defending him in so far as WHY he did what he did, i.e. his rationale, though I do agree that handing her over to the EAF was certain to put her in a position that she was in.
Youre painting him as NOT wanting responsibility for Stellar or her actions. That is simply untrue. People dont risk court martial and execution for not wanting to be responsible in the manner youre saying. He knew that ZAFT was not going to treat her well, and couldnt save her from death due to lack of time for research. He knew what the EAF had done to her and others in the past during the training phases, but that isnt necessarily a reflection of whats going on with her right now. If it were you and the only options in your skewed mind (i.e. Shinn views things in a certain manner) were let her die or let her live, which would you honestly pick? He thoughts on the matter were damned simple, and you are far out-reaching reality to plaster so I dont have to watch her die onto him. To Shinn, with the type of person he has constantly shown himself to be, it was I cant let her die because Im supposed to protect her and I love her (in whatever fashion floats your boat), the only choice she has is to be treated by the EAF, because they are her only hope of survival. Not I cant watch her die in front of me, I need to risk death from both sides to give her back to the enemy just so Ill feel better about it.
The second line of reasoning is just plain stupid. And its exactly the crap DDBen is touting. Shinn, who is very pig-headed and head strong to boot, is most certainly NOT an idiot. Would he have wasted the time to get Gaias IFF code if he didnt think through the plan to get Stellar to the EAF carefully?
First, a carefully thought out plan is not neccesarily a well thought out plan. He obviously didn't plan ahead.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
While that may be true from an outside perspective, thats not is what is in question here. Im defending him in so far as WHY he did what he did, i.e. his rationale, though I do agree that handing her over to the EAF was certain to put her in a position that she was in.
Youre painting him as NOT wanting responsibility for Stellar or her actions. That is simply untrue. People dont risk court martial and execution for not wanting to be responsible in the manner youre saying. He knew that ZAFT was not going to treat her well, and couldnt save her from death due to lack of time for research. He knew what the EAF had done to her and others in the past during the training phases, but that isnt necessarily a reflection of whats going on with her right now. If it were you and the only options in your skewed mind (i.e. Shinn views things in a certain manner) were let her die or let her live, which would you honestly pick? He thoughts on the matter were damned simple, and you are far out-reaching reality to plaster so I dont have to watch her die onto him. To Shinn, with the type of person he has constantly shown himself to be, it was I cant let her die because Im supposed to protect her and I love her (in whatever fashion floats your boat), the only choice she has is to be treated by the EAF, because they are her only hope of survival. Not I cant watch her die in front of me, I need to risk death from both sides to give her back to the enemy just so Ill feel better about it.
The second line of reasoning is just plain stupid. And its exactly the crap DDBen is touting. Shinn, who is very pig-headed and head strong to boot, is most certainly NOT an idiot. Would he have wasted the time to get Gaias IFF code if he didnt think through the plan to get Stellar to the EAF carefully?
And as for Shinn risking his life... well, he's used to it. He's a pilot. Seriously though, I think this is your best point you've got going for you, because it does make perfect sense. Why would Shinn risk his life, if he didn't genuinely care for Stellar?
The big hole here, unfortunately, is that Shinn is the ZAFT Super Ace. The only operational pilot on Minerva. And he knows Dulindal. You see, he probably also thought, what with him being so arrogant, that he was above reprisal for his actions.
And he was right. So maybe he never did think of it as risking his own life?
"So Terra is this anything like you saying you had to much respect for the writers to believe Neo was Mwu because it was to obvious. Yet now you state that the writers have to spell everything out in minute detail for it to be true."
Idiot. My original belief was that the show was too "advanced" or rather unpredictable for Neo to be Mwu, but since he was it kinda validated what level the show is at. So no, can't say I'm expecting anything less than a simple spelling out of what's gonna happen any longer. And in retrospect, it's been that way since the beginning of Seed. The whole Mwu gig was just a new low for it.
"EDIT: In response to Terra's previous post, I think you are doing a great disservice to the writers by ignoring the sublties they have built into the show."
Ehm, okay, so you're saying that the writers have put in a subtle theme which consists of Shinn really not liking Stellar at all, that only people like you and DDBen can see?
Riiiight...
Also, guys, there's a difference between seeing subtle things and making up total bullshit.
You'd do yourselves many favors by finding it.
the revenge you mean is?Quote:
Originally posted by: DDBen
Actually Shinn was mearly hoping by giving Stellar back to Neo that someone else would protect her as he is simply not the kind of guy who protects anything. Unless you can give me a better reason for him giving Neo that shiney thing Stellar gave him. This was a action made by Shinn to forget about Stellar and move on with his revenge. The fact before Stellar was put in Destroy that her memory was not altered and that she was allowed to wear the thingy as a pendant is a really wierd move that Neo made considering it would obviously be capable of downgrading her ability to use destroy VS the Minerva which at the current time is the Flagship of Zaft.Quote:
Originally posted by: qilinkiddo
the only way to prevent stellar from dying is to return stellar back to EAF...
and when you saw your love ones dying...you would not consider what would she do in the future...
the only thing you think off is whether she could stay alive for now
This is the main reason why I have previously stated that Shinn was not trying to protect Stellar with his actions. If Shinn had kept the pendant and recalled that he was fighting so people wouldn't have to suffer like Stellar has.
the only thing he could only do since he was not medical expert even if he is...ZAFT did not have the technology to prevent stellar from dying...stated by others and the fact that stellar was dying...he could only think of the easiest way out which might let stellar stay alive was to return her to neo...
shinn have feelings for stellar as a big brother/crush...
but i think its rather big brother as when stellar died...the mayu thingy was showed
Um, you've totally misquoted me here.Quote:
Originally posted by: Terracosmo
"
Ehm, okay, so you're saying that the writers have put in a subtle theme which consists of Shinn really not liking Stellar at all, that only people like you and DDBen can see?
Riiiight...
.
I never said Shinn didn't like Stellar. What I've implied was that he was fixated on her, maybe a bit attached/obsessed with her, and that their relationship really didn't have any depth. (Maybe it did at the lake... Ooh, what a bad pun).
What I said about Shinn handing off Stellar was that Shinn wanted to avoid responsibility.