Naruto Chapter 412

Sorry, too late.
Orochimaru took Sasuke and made him into an uber killing machine.
Jiraya took Naruto and made him into a... slightly less of a failture. and even not by much.

Remember? at the bridge fight. Naruto and Sasuke were about equal (or at least that was we were made to believe) in terms of overall fighting. and they each had to sprout out some maniac power ups to keep fighting.
now, Sasuke can sneak kill everyone, and even illusion sneak kill everyone. while Naruto can finish off an enemy, if the enemy has been weakened by Kakashi and a team of ninjas.
(tell me, since NarutoZ started, did Naruto win a 1on1 fight with anyone? did Naruto win a real fight since fighting Gaara?)

best thing that Kishi could have done, ages ago, was to drop Sasuke out of the picture, to focus around a bit about the Akatsuki, and make Naruto one of the akatsuki ninja apprentecies, rather than making him (and his classmates) the sole defenders of the entire village against the invasion.

then things got botched around by killing off half the akatsuki (Sasori, Deidara, the zombie guys) and making half of them Sharingan related (Kisame-Itachi, Madare).

Actually, I've been re-reading Naruto Z yesterday, and I think the shit hit the fan at the Sasori fight.
it started nice, and went down hill.
giant puppet vs human on string - awesome!
3rd fucking kazekage vs mom & dad as pupets - where did this epic mumbo jumbo come from?
100 dolls vs 10 dolls - that was just confusing to watch...
human puppet vs shonen heart - exactly.

in between - laser shields, Sakura acting like Naruto, and Sasori going from crazy giant to a sissy fuck.

on the good side of Naruto Z, there's Naruto vs Orochimaru. just a plain, good, crazy battle. but then it's ruined by Sasuke over powering the earth.
which was a serious breaking point... blah..

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Originally Posted by Abdula

He seems pretty quick on his feet but I haven't seen anything yet that would suggest that he is as fast as Sasuke. Even if he is just as fast as Sasuke it doesn't explain how is able to beat Sasuke with his sharingan on. This is the same Sasuke who just a few chapters ago was able to not only follow but keep up with the movements of Itachi who imo, other than the fourth, is the faster character we've seen thus far.

Thats what doesn't make sense to me, it seems as if Sasuke was just playing around before feeling his opponent out and he wasn't even using the sharingan but now he is, so I don't get it. The other thing is, if this guy is that strong now, without transforming or using any of his bijuu abilities, how is Kishi going to explain Hawk defeating him later? I also want to know why Sasuke is using Naruto's battle tactics, I mean since when does he go around charging at his opponents.

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Sasuke's always charged in at his opponents, it's just that the results looked more aesthetically pleasing than when Naruto did it, along with the fact that Sasuke was usually able to land some blows, while Naruto would get some clones knocked to all hell.

Naruto's battle tactic of kage bunshin running in and charging is brilliant, even if repetitive. Sacrifice the kage bunshin, and hopefully learn a bit about the opponent in the process. Sasuke using it, but substituting his teammates for kage bunshin ( yeah xD ) is also brilliant. He learned from that, that the guy was a rather formidable close combat So he goes "well, I've got the close combat hax!" and goes in. But remember what Rock Lee said to Sasuke when they first fought? "It doesn't matter if you can see the attacks if your body can't respond to them." I think that's what happened here. Mr. Raptastic hadn't even begun to show his skill. He probably combined amazing speed (maybe or maybe not faster than Sasuke) with numerous simultaneous attacks. As a whole, Sasuke just couldn't avoid that without first knowing the guy was capable of it.

As far as them ending up beating the 8 tails...easy. Teamwork. They've already shown that they can use it to some degree of effectiveness, and Sasuke himself defeated Deidara, who took out a bijuu, unprepared at that. I don't see this being a big deal.

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Originally Posted by Uchiha Barles

As far as them ending up beating the 8 tails...easy. Teamwork. They've already shown that they can use it to some degree of effectiveness, and Sasuke himself defeated Deidara, who took out a bijuu, unprepared at that. I don't see this being a big deal.

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I do hope you're right but i'm afraid we'll just end up seeing some MS hax attack ownage in the end :(

Then again if you guys r right and kishi is trying to pimp down sasuke's power a bit for us, the readers, then maybe we'll get to see some awesome combination attacks from Hawk

PS: This is kind of a random question but remeber the spider guy who was defeated by neji on the sasuke retrieval arc? Was his ability a bloodline limit?

Edit to below: If u want to play that angle, he also lost the orochimaru "power-up" he had, if he didn't lost speed or power he at least lost a shitload of jutsu.

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Originally Posted by Abdula

He seems pretty quick on his feet but I haven't seen anything yet that would suggest that he is as fast as Sasuke. Even if he is just as fast as Sasuke it doesn't explain how is able to beat Sasuke with his sharingan on. This is the same Sasuke who just a few chapters ago was able to not only follow but keep up with the movements of Itachi who imo, other than the fourth, is the faster character we've seen thus far.

Thats what doesn't make sense to me, it seems as if Sasuke was just playing around before feeling his opponent out and he wasn't even using the sharingan but now he is, so I don't get it. The other thing is, if this guy is that strong now, without transforming or using any of his bijuu abilities, how is Kishi going to explain Hawk defeating him later? I also want to know why Sasuke is using Naruto's battle tactics, I mean since when does he go around charging at his opponents.

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Let's not forget that this is the first time we are seeing Sasuke fight after he lost his cursed seal. This is NOT the same Sasuke that fought Itachi. I am sure the seal amplified Sasuke's speed, stamina and chakra. Even though he has gained MS, I don't think he has suddenly acquired the skill to compensate for the seal just yet.

That's a really good point, but even so, Sasuke's never been owned like this. I mean to say, Sasuke would pull out the cursed seal power at a point after using his regular sharinagins as a counter to something the enemy would do that happens to overpower him. In this case though, he wouldn't have had that chance. This is more a "dead before you can even use your techniques" kind of scenario.

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Originally Posted by Splash!

Let's not forget that this is the first time we are seeing Sasuke fight after he lost his cursed seal. This is NOT the same Sasuke that fought Itachi. I am sure the seal amplified Sasuke's speed, stamina and chakra. Even though he has gained MS, I don't think he has suddenly acquired the skill to compensate for the seal just yet.

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That explains it. I had forgotten about that.

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Originally Posted by Uchiha Barles

That's a really good point, but even so, Sasuke's never been owned like this. I mean to say, Sasuke would pull out the cursed seal power at a point after using his regular sharinagins as a counter to something the enemy would do that happens to overpower him. In this case though, he wouldn't have had that chance. This is more a "dead before you can even use your techniques" kind of scenario.

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Even is Sasuke doesn't activate the curse seal it still enhances his overall stats and it really isn't about whether he was using it or not but having Oro's power to reinforce his normal chakra and stamina makes a huge difference. I think him being without the curse seal is a good enough explanation for why he is getting beaten.

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Originally Posted by Abdula

That explains it. I had forgotten about that.

Even is Sasuke doesn't activate the curse seal it still enhances his overall stats and it really isn't about whether he was using it or not but having Oro's power to reinforce his normal chakra and stamina makes a huge difference. I think him being without the curse seal is a good enough explanation for why he is getting beaten.

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Not to mention he lost the abilities he gained from absorbing oro into himself, no more fast healing (which is a good thing since that was to much of a hax and seemed unlimited) yeah i know they replaced that with this chicks healing ability but that has to be limited with how much chakra she has.

The 8tails hitting him could be the cursed seal being gone, or he can be fast as hell since it's hard to tell how fast someone is going in still images, the attack looked fast with the spinning and with the blades may have been conffusing, maybe it will look a ton more devastating animaited.

This pannel seems fast.... http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/411/14/

Then when sasukes chidori blade doesn't work he gets hit witht he big blow so mayeb even the surprise of that not workign left him open. when you look at that again that seems like the case.

Yea, it doesn't look like he was moving slowly at all. I mean to use 8 swords at once I would think you would need to have to be freaking fast.

Sadly there's no Jump this week. Gonna have to wait til the 22nd to see what happens next. I really want to see how the 8 tail looks, when he goes beast.

I would actually like to see the 8-Tails live and become a permanent fixture on Naruto. I mean do they even have any black people in Konoha? Or the Naruto world?

No, and if thats what they're going to be like then its for the best.

maybe there's an entire clan of them? black people who fight through rapping, singing and dancing. (and they're all called Bob)

it's great anime-material, so we really shouldn't be giving them ideas.

a new Jincuuriki as an acting character would have a good idea, two years ago, after Gaara kicked the bucket and when Naruto needed someone to teach him kyuubi magic.
now we just want to see this stupid storyline closed and get on with whatever plot that's going in the background (is there a plot in the background? do the inner circle of the akatsuki actually have any idea what to do with the tailed beasts?).

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Originally Posted by Death BOO Z

a new Jincuuriki as an acting character would have a good idea, two years ago, after Gaara kicked the bucket and when Naruto needed someone to teach him kyuubi magic.
now we just want to see this stupid storyline closed and get on with whatever plot that's going in the background (is there a plot in the background? do the inner circle of the akatsuki actually have any idea what to do with the tailed beasts?).

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No. Thats like giving Google, US Steel or McDonald's to a software engineer, plant foreman manager or night shift burger flipper to run. It'll be a disaster.

I'm waiting for them to reveal that Madara is actually a pawn controlled by Danzou.

I wouldn't mind him becoming a "real" character with a storyline and goals, but on the other hand I kinda hope the manga will wind down and finish off (which would require some serious killing off action)...

Although I doubt that will happen anytime soon, atleast then they wouldn't have any excuses other than money-grabbing for ruining the anime with fillers and poor pacing.

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Originally Posted by Assertn

I'm waiting for them to reveal that Madara is actually a pawn controlled by Danzou.

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You really think that someone as powerful as Madara could be controlled like that?

And my question is, the toad sage said that only Naruto and Jairaya could complete the Toad training due to their large amounts of Chakra...how did Jairaya get so much? I know that he is a sannin, but he doesnt have a famous lineage that we know about...so why him?

He has high chakra capacity, which should have been obvious by now. Having high chakra capacity and/or large amounts of chakra is nothing special and it isn't only limited to Naruto. I've said that many times before.

It was just something kishi added to make naruto's results even more impressive when he finishes the training.

Personally i hope he comes up with something that has got nothing to do with either the rasengan or shadow clones, a fools hope i imagine, and for extra points it would be cool if we only saw the results of the training in the fight against pain, kind of like when sasuke busted out chidori on the gaara fight.

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Originally Posted by The Archangel

it would be cool if we only saw the results of the training in the fight against pain, kind of like when sasuke busted out chidori on the gaara fight.

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That is a given, its almost redundant.

I don't mean like when the rasenshruiken was first shown, that time we already knew like 90% of what was going to happen.

I'm talking about a completely awesome technique that we would never expect to see from naruto, no fucking clones or rasengans but a jutsu that will actually make naruto rock that fight with pain.

I mean, is anyone else here ready to see naruto do something completely kickass in shippuden like he did in the original? We haven't even seen anything close to naruto vs. gaara or naruto vs. sasuke yet, it's about time kishi make the boy shine for once.