Intelligence is not what you know, but how you use it.
Well, unless his brain damage caused his IQ to drop significantly.
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Intelligence is not what you know, but how you use it.
Well, unless his brain damage caused his IQ to drop significantly.
I'm guessing it was because Touma was in a rush to change Mikoto's mind that he forgot to calculate a plan with information on Accelerator. Can't blame that guy though, he's always rushing into danger and doesn't even realize what to do when arriving. :p
Well... Im assuming he forgot all about magic and espers... so he has had a few days to remember this.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
Or as Nadouku said... he has Mikoto on his mind and its a bit distracted to think straight.
@RZ - He only forgot up until the Index seal incident. He remembers the Alchemist event where he performed well by figuring out the true identity of the enemy's power. You can't just say that he is confused because the enemy is using "powers" or "magic".
Unlike the previous cases where he had to get beaten up first (and get information) before eventually defeating the enemy, full information regarding Accelerator's powers were given to him this time. This includes his own powers. Add to this a relatively long period of time between learning this information and the actual battle.
Then he forgot to calculate a plan..?
And you don't call that stupid?
Well, lets just say that Touma is forgetting an important aspect before entering a fight. Desperately, he's trying to save someone without thinking clearly. Yea, that's stupid, trying to be a hero and all with that damaged body of his. And you wonder why most of the girls has the hots for him. :o
Well, I guess that beating him too quickly with what could be considered luck isn't in Touma's plan.
He wants to show the ones behind the experiment that the Accelerator really is weak, so Touma wants to show that he, a level 0, can beat the accelerator fair and square.
Well, I guess that beating him too quickly with what could be considered luck isn't in Touma's plan.
He wants to show the ones behind the experiment that the Accelerator really is weak, so Touma wants to show that he, a level 0, can beat the accelerator head on
If I try to remember his previous fights, I don't think he has ever planned anything, just reacted when things started to happen, and, fortunately for him, at that point he has had pretty quick wits. Who knows why he never plans anything beforehand, even in extremely simple situations like this when he already realised he must do something.
His power is strange, thinking about it based on this episode and the loli teacher's explanation. ESP is altering reality, so what exactly is Touma doing? Removing ESP alterations? What does that exactly mean? It means Touma has the exact same power as any esper or magician he meets, only he can't control it and it always just reverses what was done - unless that would be inconvenient for the script writer in which case his power does nothing. It's kind of boring, really. I hope they will spend time to probe it sufficiently.
Theoretically Accelerator by one mistake could destroy earth.
I think that touma won't finish him off, someone other will - some magican or something. Well he just wasted his best chance to win, and enemy knows 'bout his power. without outside help he is as good as dead.
Touma never planned anything because he didn't have the information to plan anything. It was either an unexpected fight, or an unknown situation.
He is supposed to be quick-witted, being able to come up with a plan the moment he realizes something. This has been shown in all of his other fights.
This time, he completely wastes a good opportunity. Making the opponent underestimate you is part of strategy, not luck. If he managed to beat the shit out of Accelerator when he slapped the hand away, the experiments should cease.
I know I am being picky, but it could have been done much, much better so easily that I am irritated why they had to present it in such a manner.
@Xelbair - That's true. If accelerator steps on the ground and changes the speed enough that it can destroy the earth, and adjust the recoil to his body towards the ground as well, the planet would be destroyed twice over.
There may be a limit to how he can change vectors. Perhaps his total energy manipulation can only be equal to a certain constant times his own body mass (ie, k x mc^2 where m=his body mass) or something. Otherwise, it's just infinite power. It's like Mikoto can save the planet by providing the entire world with "clean energy".Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
I just don't think it'll work that way, that's all.
I hope so. Maybe Touma will figure out a loophole in the guy's powers.
Is he acting rashly? Yes
Is he acting stupid? Yes
Does he have the time to plan? No
If he takes time to plan MISAKA 10032 would be dead by now... and maybe even Mikoto would have gone to fight.
Setting aside the Index incident... he was indeed thrown directly towards Lezzard... but Styl did give him information on him. He didn't plan though because he isn't a freaking genius.
And anyway... you were ranting about he forgetting what he did against Styl and Kaori... whereas the current Touma only has known Styl as a semi-ally.
You know, I came up with a plan to defeat Accelerator with the information given in less than 10 seconds. Anyone could, actually. It is not foolproof, nor is it complete to the details, but it sure beats slapping away the chance handed to you.
Touma had minutes to do it when he was running to the scene.
I can't believe you still think I am referring to knowledge about magic and powers when I talk about the incidents from before. I am referring to his ability to use the information, which should remain despite memory loss.
What exactly is your definition of a plan? It doesn't have to be Light or Lelouch level in complexity. It can be as simple as waiting for a chance to grab the enemy and beat him silly. When Touma approached the alchemist, he had a plan, which he formed in less than a minute when he realized the true nature of the enemy's power. It is this lack of consistency that irks me.
I would love to see fight Accelerator vs mage. I'm interested in his power to reflect - meybe magic follow other rules than normal physics and fight would not be like "I'm sooo imba and i'm gonna kill you after having fun with beating you up"...
I don't know about the whole plan thing, like others said it'd probably be kinda boring if he just went in there with any kind of weapon and swung it towards the back of his head as in a surprise attack also there's no point in fighting him unless they actually fight head on. Besides he's using a lot of range attacks including those that surrounds him which making it harder for him to approach him. Also seeing as he's throwing physical stuff at him his Imagine breaker is pretty useless. Right now he pretty much just needs to get close and throw a couple of punches at him.
Need input from you guys since I'm considering moving this series to the "En Fuego" section for the last 9 episodes. Please discuss here:
http://forums.gotwoot.com/showthread.php?t=15913
According to the Alcoholic Chain-Smoking Loli's explanation, normal Espers are able to choose what type of candy comes out of the box (or whether the cat is dead or not). Instead of the result being an unknown until the box opens, Espers guarantee the outcome. Affecting enough of those minute changes lets them shift reality enough that they create a power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
Mikoto presumably distorts the precise location of an electron, and another and another. The electrons rub together and align until she generates sufficient electromagnetic engeries. Similarlly, Accelerator distorts something as minute as the spin direction the subatomic particles (basis for Schrödinger's Principle). Stacked together, he controls where and how fast they are collectively going. Someone like Kuroko (played by the lovely Satomi Arai, Sayoko in CG) with teleportation probably shifts the judgment on the precise location of her composite particles and associated ones around her until, *Poof* she's somewhere else.
Magic does this all by violating physics just the same, only using the divine to do the dirty work that Espers do subconsciously. Magic seems more like a conscious will driving the same guarantees that Espers accomplish unconsciously. Magicians always beseech intervention to their benefit (or their opponent's misfortune). Index's Walking Church supposedly used to accomplish the same thing as Touma's ability, but in addition consciously didn't allow shifts that would harm the wearer, explaining why physical attacks like Kaori's also should have failed.
Touma on the other hand forces the choice back into the box. He recreates that uncertainty, rendering both magic and ESP abilities useless. That's why he doesn't have any power without something being used against him. That same uncertainty always exists outside the influence of an Esper, so he normally doesn't affect anything. But when Mikoto blasts him with a lighting bolt of modified electron locations, he just ensures that their locations are again unknown, and the effect is dispelled. Perhaps his bad luck is, like Index claimed, just a side affect of him cancelling out the standard level of benevolence the divine imparts on all human beings. When all is uncertain, things just happen as they will (for comedic effect).
Something about that bothers me, which is why I wrote what I did. It's probably the weak link (in your theory) between these ESP powers and the reality. Moreover, you can't return the uncertainty once the power has been used already because that has become the real reality already at that point. It would make sense he could render someone unable to use the power when touched, but it doesn't make sense an already altered reality could be returned to the "normal" state. Well, that seems to be the case with Accelerator and the shit flying around, but Mikoto's case still fights againt this in my opinion. Also the fire used by Stiyl, The Fire Mage.
There seems to exist a discrepancy between how matter and energy are treated in this series.
I have to disagree, mostly because everyone is so shocked that his power works that way. It absolutely makes no sense that Touma reinserts the uncertainty of the world, but that is why I strangely find it to be the most plausible explanation given Lolita-sensei's explanation behind the science. That's why Espers are so confused by the effect, because most of them probably know the science too.
I don't think it actually is returning to a "normal" state. Just a different uncertain state. That appears "normal" enough to the observer, hence the cancellation of the altered reality. Nothing is reversed, just, "returned to the inside of the box."
With Mikoto, Touma's ability just makes a jumble of everything again. Lighting (one of her abilities) is created when all the charges in the air align to make a column. The negative charge in the clouds then shoots down this column to the positively charged object (in this case, Touma). Touma jumbles the alignment of column right at the level of his right arm (since he can only affect it locally), so the effect is only cancelled in his immediate vicinity, and disperses around him as electricity might normally. He replaced that uncertainty about the alignment of the charged particles right near him, shooting the electric discharge off in all directions through a disorganized field. Her normal blasts work the same way, so they are cancelled the same way. However, her railgun is different, and she intentionally missed him, and is why he avoids Accelerator's projectiles. Can't stop what is already been done, as we saw when Touma's arm was sliced off.
I agree with you on the fire for the most part, but fire is just plasma in fluid form, and can be affected by the same particle phyiscs. So Touma could theoretically cancel the fire itself. As for the heat which would already have been created...Touma would be incinerated either way, I agree there. But that is one of the abilities of a magic user, we aren't supposed to understand the science behind that.
EDIT:
Okay, I've worked out a plausible explanation for the heat too. If magic is just divine intervention on the same level of an Esper, then Stiyl's (or any other Esper's abilities) come from reversing the laws of thermodynamics among others. They are [B]reducing[B] entropy (simply described as the disorder/randomness of a system, which always increases). Touma is just replacing that entropy taken out. This would reduce the heat created by the flames as well by reversing the system Stiyl's magic creates.
To lazy to check if it's already been mentioned but where you guys aware that Stiyl was only 14 years old?
Ryll: Don't quite think that works with the heat since the heat surrounds him more than just one way, which means his hand shouldn't be able to cancel out all the hot air. The same should go for all the lightning bolts as well if he only cancels out what he's touching unless it's got some kind of range and cancels the whole distorted reality that he touches. Besides they haven't properly explained his imagine breaker anyway so they'll probably do it at some point.
Well, them talking about how Esper powers are really the user's distorted reality,
Imagine Breaker suddenly makes sense. Imagination Breaker would make more sense, but it's close enough.
I added this series to the En Fuego section. This thread will remain here until the next episode is released, but feel free to create other discussion threads in the En Fuego section. Enjoy.
So the next episode will mean a new thread titled Toaru Majutsu no Index: 14...in General Anime? Or En Feugo?
Edit: I get it now. Soul Eather: 38 explained everything.
When episode 14 comes out, create a thread in General Anime called Toaru Majutsu no Index 14. Once that happens a me or some mod will move this existing thread to the En Fuego section.
The En Fuego section should also be used for any other type of discussion you guys might be interested in that is not episode specific, like Super Powers, OST, etc.
Hopefully this system will be good and promote better discussions. We'll see after a couple of weeks or so.
Edit: Instead of using the full title of the series 'Toaru Majutsu no Index' to name new threads, we'll simply use the tag 'Index:'. It'll be easier for people creating new threads, plus it works better as it regards the 'Latest Post' view/
He was scared shitless for his life at the moment... he clearly felt overwhelmed. Nothing to do with stupidity or anything like that. A waste of a chance? Sure, but he was in a very disadvantageous position at the time, and fighting against a very powerful Esper and it was simple reflect.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
Also, we don't know if by simply grabbing his arm it would be all over right? Have we seen him grab someone and render that person powerless in the process? Let me know because I can't come up with any. I mean, would grabbing him prevent the guy from using his powers? Would grabbing him prevent him from kneeing him in the head? So as good as a move as you seem to think grabbing him would be, in the end it probably wouldn't have accomplished much and the result would've been the same... his powers revealed.
I can agree with the reflex idea, but if he was mentally prepared that too can be prevented, much like how a boxer is trained to not flinch at punches. If he was waiting for that chance from the beginning, he should be able to take advantage of the situation instead of being dictated by it.
It is true that we cannot be certain about the effects if he grabs onto a person, but more likely than not the esper should be unable to use his powers. It is probably similar to how he could not be teleported before.
Either way, grabbing the enemy and at least trying to attack is much better than revealing your powers with 0 gain. I doubt that Accelerator can manage to do anything proper to defend himself immediately, much less knee Touma in the face judging from his shocked and confused reaction after just being slapped on the hand.
Even if for some reason grabbing the enemy does not seal their powers, just knowing this fact is already enough reason to try it out. I would certainly prefer it to simply being chased around running for my life.
That's true about the teleporter thing... but maybe it happened that way because she was trying to teleport the whole body, so that might prevent the power from manifesting. So, it may not be representative, but a good example.
Still, he was on the floor and clearly scared. I think we can forgive him this once. I think his only plan was to land a solid knockout punch and that's about it. Also, even if grabbing the dude might have the desired effects, Touma probably doesn't know it.
Everybody makes mistakes I guess.
I just hope it doesn't become a pattern. I am waiting for Touma to kick Accelerator's ass without help next episode, as unlikely as it may seem.
Hey guys i just started watching this and i had one question, does the main character ever get any other ability besides the esper nullifier thingy ?
I think Touma never had the complete information regarding Accelerator's powers. My guess is he was expecting someone like the alchemist or like Mikoto, not someone that could throw anything due to his vector power.
And as Munsu said... he got scared noticing in what deep shit he had gotten. All for MISAKA and Mikoto.
See Kraco, who says that the En Fuego doesn't promote lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Archangel
Anyways, so far he really hasn't gotten any... though as the series progresses who knows what he might be able to gain to help him throughout. I think the most important part right now is to see how he finds new ways to apply his powers, and I have a feeling that it isn't fully developed yet.
Does extreme bad luck count?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Archangel
His power even negates it.
Just one thing Archie, because it was commented before. The series is based on light novels, so a few people commented the series seemed to be not following a line, but it actually does... it follows Touma's 'vacations' from school... lol
Currently 3 novels have been animated (we are currently on the 3rd)
What amazes me is that even Mikoto can't do a thing against the accelerator.
Afterall, she's aliased railgun, as I've read in a thread before.
That alias should'nt be taken lightly. I guess you guys know what we talk about when naming a railgun...
We talk about a device able to launch pellets at speeds of several hundred miles per hour... giving those pellets an unprecedented penetration factor.
Or is it because she isn't railgun yet? I mean she doesn't know yet she can accelerate a piece of metal to incredible speeds?
Because I guess there's a limit to Accelerator's power to divert a vector.
In a railgun case, we talk about a mere 1 to 5 kg pellet able to pass through a tank as if it was butter and move it tens of meters from its initial position...
Or is it Touma who will give her hints and help her defeat him? He should'nt even need to touch him to weaken him...
Accelerator thinks himself as quick, but I do not see him quicker than a railgun bullet...
He clearly specified his power is at the surface of his skin,
I do not see a surface power being fast enough to divert a pellet launched by a powerful railgun...
She used the railgun in the first episode with a coin.
I didn't even remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munsu
So she's not even confident to defeat Accelerator with this. Humm, Touma really needs to be clever this time.
Yeah, but she also hasn't fought him herself so who knows. The clones might not be able to use the railgun though.Quote:
Originally Posted by David75
The bad thing about the railgun is of course that if it doesn't work, she will automatically die herself. Quite a bet, especially with the initial assumption the dude can reflect it.
Accelerator completely cancels out her power with his own. He said it to one of the MISAKA's before he killed her, he can change the vector of anything, even the flow of blood, just by touching it. He changes heat flows (fire), he changes electron flows (Mikoto's normal ability), bullet trajectories (MISAKAs previous modes of attack), and anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by David75
Because her railgun is just a vectored projectile, he can turn it away just as easily. Accelerator also told MISAKA-10031 (The one before 10032 that Touma is trying to save) that his body is defaulted to a reflection mode. Subconsciously. Anything Mikoto magnetically accelerates at him would return to kill her, just as the sniper rifle rounds returned to destroy the gun of the first MISAKA we saw.
This is why MISAKA 10032 remarked there was no wind and was trying to suffocate Accelerator with fused ozone. Without any kind of wind, not only would the ozone stay in the area, Accelerator wouldn't notice or be able to do anything on a large scale (as he would with a gust of wind) about it.
It also doesn't matter if Mikoto defeats him, Mikoto explained this in quite the desperate tone. She's a Level 5 just the same, and unless he kills her easily instead of in the 128 encounters (125th would statistically kill her), the organization would determine she was strong enough to train him to Level 6. If Mikoto defeated him just by a little bit, they'd probably be delighted. Only by getting killed would it prove that the magnitude of a 100 number of samples are an efficient way of training Accelerator up.
Touma on the other hand, proves that Accelerator isn't anywhere close to as strong as they thought, and no matter if they have him kill 1 million MISAKAs, he would never get to Level 6.
If a MISAKA took him down, that might be similar though.
Touma's power is the reason he has a chance at all. As we saw with the little slap, Touma negates Accelerator's Auto-Reflect form of energy/momentum manipulation. This drove him into a manical rage (because I imagine Accelerator hasn't been touched in a decade). If Touma can get close, he can slug the shit out of Accelerator.
While Touma holding Accelerator might allow Mikoto or MISAKA-10032 to defeat him, it still wouldn't stop the research.
EDIT:
Ah...everyone beat me to it.
I thought the MISAKAs said they couldn't see the energy flow without the goggles, and as a result, can't really control the energies instinctually well enough to generate the railgun effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munsu
I agree with all you said. Just quoted this fragment to clarify something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryllharu
Accelerator needs to kill either 20,000 MISAKAs or 128 Railguns... since they only have 1 Mikoto they cloned her. The part of that 125th would statistically kill her I think it was the predicted moves in battle the central computer came with, not that the 125th battle would kill her.
At least that its what I think. I mean... they already have Mikoto's DNA. If she could indeed survive until battle 125th, those madscientists would have made her fight, and then make Accelerator kill just about 200 more clones in place of the last 3 battles. I mean... they do rely a lot on the stadistics.
Well, I could be wrong, that was just how I took it. I'd have to rewatch the episode, but given how easily he kills MISAKAs, you are probably right. Still...if a MISAKA is equal to a 156th of a Mikoto, then it's possible she could survive a number of their encounters.
I imagine a lot of their battles would be back an forth things. She zaps at him, he reversed it, she railguns, he reverses it...until he throws a non-metallic at her and she fails to vaporize it.
Eh, you're probably correct.
I just really liked the way you Freudian slipped on spelling 'statistics.' One 't' away from 'sadistic,' which the scientists certainly are.
Argh... actually... I think Im still sleepy and made a spanglish there... estadistica... or something.
But yeah... Mikoto told Touma that the computer predicted she could survive 125 moves, but that she was afraid that she could not even survive the first move. And somewhere she mentioned that since they could not clone a 100% faithful Mikoto they had to make 20,000 MISAKAs
Bad luck my ass
I haven't finished yet but from what i see this guy has girls falling into his lap mostly every episode, even if they are lolis.
I would love to have that kind of bad luck....
So they got tired of just giving him 1 girl at a time so they're giving him a whole army of them at once? This anime is gonna spawn more hentai than naruto once it really picks up.
Anyway, overpowered anyone? At this time i cant really come up with a way for Touma to win this battle other than accelerator making the mistake of being too cocky and going for him head on, and even then he would have to come up with come amazing combo to knock him out in that small windows of opportunity.
This is off topic but i didn't have the chance to discuss this last time since i just recently began watching this show:
- Am i the only one who didn't buy Stiyl's explanation that the dragon that came from Touma's arm was a product of the alchemist's power?
My guess is that it was the next phase or maybe the true form of Imagine Breaker, maybe a power that not only negates another ones reality, but all of reality itself.
A crazy theory i know, but it just kinda came to me.
Everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Archangel
I don't know, I bought it. Sounded fair game that since he's going ballistic and trying to use his powers at the same time, he's turning his fears into reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Archie
Why a dragon then?? If he was turning his fears into reality shouldn't it have been something more specific? Anyway i hope i'm right, i've been dying to see an upgrade to imagine breaker, just defending powers is getting boring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
Why a dragon? You'll have to ask him ;) He was thinking Touma was a monster, so I'd assume a dragon is a monster of that calibre for the freaked-out alchemist.
But why did his right arm turn into a monster and not Touma completely?
Maybe because his whole fear was based on the imagine breaker on his arm
Argh but i want him to have a freaking dragon on his right arm for a weapon so i'm going with my theory !!! Yep, i totally owned you in this discussion Bill :p
Now, what that really necessary? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by The Archangel
I'm just going with that Izzard subconciously associates Imagine Breaker with Touma's right arm. Even though it's cut off, Touma said "You didn't think you'd get rid of my Imagine Breaker that easily did you?!"
Then Izzard thought Touma (and his power, hence associated right arm) is a monster. That's it from me, I'm out of here.
When is ep 14 gonna be released?
When the subbers feel like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Archangel
AoShen released ep 14 on Thursday. Check theirs out, if you don't want to wait for Eclipse.
I meant the day when the original aired
I've checked, it was 2 days ago so it shouldn't be that long till Eclipse subs it i guess.
Edit to above: How's their quality? Is it watchable?
I saw AoShen's versions of Birdy the Mighty Decode. They were barely watchable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archangel
Are you talking about Eclipse's release of Episode 13? Its been out for a while now.....
Yes, after commenting on the episode pages ago i am now asking if the episode has been released 2 weeks afterwards...
I think AoShen's release of ep 14 is not widescreen or something like that. Eclipse's source is always aired on Saturdays.
No wait... the series normally gets re-airings on another channels... sometimes less quality... not hd or simply the other channels' version aren't being encoded... this ep 14 was supposed to be the re-run, yet since the original saturday source took a week off due to new years the other channel aired the episode first.
I think...
14 by Eclipse:
http://torrents.no-sekai.de/eclipse/...5d.mkv.torrent
Hah hah. Accelerator was too crazy and too full of himself to realise till the end why Touma could keep beating him. Kind of funny how in the last ep we were given the impression he got cautious and intended to keep Touma at a distance but in reality it was nothing but probably his usual battle tactics. After that, no matter how many punches Touma gave him, he just didn't get it why it happened. I think it demonstrated pretty well, all in all, why somebody who has never lost a fight can never be the ultimate fighter.
A good episode in my opinion. With teasing Misaka, a breast grab, a head chomp, and all.
Yep, I agree this was a good episode. Accelarator was completely nuts, and his laugh was annoying as hell.
In all, this was the first battle that I consider Touma as actually winning because he was better. All other battles had some completely bullshit set of circumstances that let him prevail.
Next episode, the usual beach anime episode. Hopefully it won't solely be about eye candy.
I was kind of hoping Touma would grab hold of Accelerator with his right arm (negating his powers) and then just beat the shit out of him over and over. But when you punch someone in the face while they fly at you at 40 mph, that's probably better in the end. Good fight overall. I agree with Munsu, this is the first time where his power didn't give him instant victory, it only made the playing field level.
Touma one this one fair and square, and not just due to chance. It's a lot like his first encounter with Stiyl, where he may have negated the powers first, but was smart enough to set off the fire alarms so he could finish the job.
I also thought Index was going to munch on his head for not feeding her properly, instead of for making her worried.
Next week's preview looks very interesting. Looks like an evil Index shows up (red robed nun). It'll start as a beach episode, but it looks like the serious stuff with Index starts up again. I'm more curious how he will deal with Kanzaki. He won't remember her at all, and he and she had a few very serious conversations that changed the relationship between the two.
This series has quite a few interesting characters that have been underused, so I hope this series goes longer than the usual 24/26 episodes or that a sequel is being planned. They could all use a Mikoto-style arc, with Kanzaki being the next in line. And I'm sure more cool characters are due to be introduced... too many super powers around, and with different sources of power. I'd like to see more of the Magicians vs. Espers deal... we haven't seen much of that. Actually, we haven't seen much of the politics of this world.
Accelerator is a strange guy, as I said before he knew about dust explosion, but didn't realise he was inside and even at the core of the explosion and that he'd be oxygen depleted... It's so dumb since he even commented on oxygen depletion because of 10 032 strategy.
And that dumb guy is able to make the calculations to create a stable plasma without any computer? Only like that, even able to take natural winds into account? (well there was no wind they said)
Then, he keeps telling everyone he can manipulate any vector, no matter when.
And when he keeps getting hit hard, he doesn't react, he doesn't even step back?
Is it possible his brain was really oxygen depleted to not being able to react so much, but had enough wits to create a plasma?
We know that in the end he had to lose, but the sequence was messed up a bit.
Nah, he was just an arrogant son of a bitch. The reason he never reacted to getting hit hard was because he just couldn't believe that someone could do it in the first place, much less continue to do it. Accelerator probably thought Touma wouldn't be able to keep it up. That arrogance, knowing he's never lost before, led him to believe there was no way he could lose to someone with no power. He is dumb the same way Touma is, where Touma has determination and a need to be the hero, Accelerator just had absolute arrogance.
As for the plasma creation, it's just a natural sense of his abilities, taken up to the maximum. Mikoto does the same thing subconsciously with her Railgun abilities, and the MISAKAs can't because they lost that sensation in the cloning process, and make up for it with the goggles.
Dloading...and ToA 15...
I still cant get why he didn't pierced touma with small rock through the brain or heart. In his place i would be trying to kill ASAP without damaging surroundings.
Great episode. Shows how weak Accelerator is to physical attacks. Plasma created from compressed wind? I wonder how much damage that would have done if he had succeeded.
He's obviously mad and arrogant as hell. It's not that he's stupid, but you can't expect a psychopath's brain to make much sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by David75
Read the explanation above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelbair
Probably enough damage to fuck himself up in the process, which again shows that that guy isn't quite right in the head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadouku
Bottom line folks, Accelerator is still the strongest esper we've ever seen but his psyche is unbelievably messed up.
They say absolute power corrupts absolutely and here's the perfect example of just that, never having been defeated he has an ego so big that stopped him from thinking straight after taking a couple of punches from a level 0.
It's ridiculous once you think about it, he kept making his attacks bigger and bigger while a small vector change to a small projectile would take Touma out in a mater of nanoseconds, but again his pride was his downfall.
I hope we get to see more of him, and we probably will since he doesn't seem like the guy to take a loss like this with his arms crossed.
As for the preview, beach + lolis = already a guaranteed win
Dam Misaka is already all over him on the beach? This guy and the MC from Persona 3 are my new heroes and role models
Yeah i get that explanation, but still, it should be natural thought process, it can hit me -> it is dangerous -> keep at range -> kill it -> do it.
I'd rather believe he was still oxygen depleted.
After all, he stated Touma was way too slow to touch him, which was true till the flour explosion.
After that, the very slow puches -Accelerator wise- were able to touch him.
I understand they are effective when they touch, but before that they're just normal punches that accelerator should be able to dodge with ease
Even if we forget the fact the guy was crazy and thus doesn't think naturally, there remains still the fact he didn't know Touma's power unlike we. To him it just looked like Touma somehow punched through his vector change defense, and it's almost certain an idea that there could be a simple ESP cancelling esper out there never crossed his mind, so he couldn't concentrate on that. From his previous, very numerous, battles he had probably learned that when your strike doesn't bring the opponent down, increase the power. So, like Arch said, he decided to switch to stronger and stronger attacks. For this guy who never really had any need to think about defending himself, only thinking of different attacks was the natural way. I don't think there was anything strange in this fight in that sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munsu
Hehe. Actually the fourth novel does begin like this. Avoid Wikipedia if any of you don't want to be spoiled.
Great episode. Like everybody said already, Accelerator is just too arrogant, so he didn't really stop to analyze what was going on.
I don't think Touma would have survived without Mikoto and the Sisters assistance though. I liked a lot that the scientific side of things was used by Mikoto, by calculating the wind used by Accelerator to use the plasma and the planning of reverting the wind to stop it, using the aid of the Sisters. They didn't just 'try something' like the first arc or freaked out the enemy, like the second, they did a calculation.
For any of you who likes Mikoto... here is a doujinshi follow up to this arc:
Icha Icha Railgun (its non-H you pervs)
http://www.mediafire.com/?wx1x1ymepdw
Icha Icha Railgun 2
http://www.mediafire.com/?m9mm3gymjgt
Munsu:
Like you I also expect a sequel. Series is marked to have 25 episodes. Yet at this pace it will only cover 5 out of 19 novels (17 mainline + 2 specials).
FInally catched up. Great show. But i agree with those that wonder about Accelerator´s fighting behaviour. Yeah, he was mad and arrogant and all that, but still...
i wont complain too much, though, it´s too entertaining.
All he did was turn the vectors from the force of friction in his feet the other way meaning he only had twice the normal speed of a human being. Seeing as he seemed somewhat physically weak that shouldn't count for such a big speed boost that Touma wouldn't be able to counter him.Quote:
Originally Posted by David75
No discussion there, it was definitely a team effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyougaZell
Do those explain why she's all over Touma in the preview? It seems so out of character for her.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyougaZell
Edit: Oh wait that's a doujinshi, that means it isn't cannon right?
Edit2: Lol those were awesome, thx for sharing Zell
I'll... keep to myself the reason of the preview. The 4th novel (next arc) shall explain itself.
Im hoping for a 3rd Icha Icha Railgun btw.
I wonder... MISAKA 10032 was the one that Touma got to know... but they said that all the MISAKA's are linked when Touma found the dead 10031... does that mean all remaining MISAKA from 10033 to 20000 like him now?
I want THAT harem...
I read comments elsewhere on the internet, now I have been spoiled about next episode.
Serves me right. [adding spacing] T.T
I think they only rolled out about two dozen or so MISAKAs at any one given time. It really wouldn't do to have all 20000 MISAKA clones running around the city. Perhaps when a new one matured, they'd simply link it up with the hive mind to get it up to speed. The ones that are around all certainly love him quite a bit now. Touma has built quite the considerable harem.
I really envy him. It always was my dream to have own harem.
And Archie - Accelerator can manipulate vectors - not only reverse them, therefore he could get even x5 his normal speed, or x50 - but it would be pain to stop in instant with this speed.
Ryll: So I guess you now know what happened on the preview... Im on the same boat. But I've actually known since before the series began. I saw the Mikoto figure I own on pre-order at HLJ and investigated from what series she was. I've liked her character ever since.
A bit off topic... I have all the Novels images. Would you guys like me to post them on another thread at the En fuego forum?
Example:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ru-Majutsu.jpg http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...u-Majutsu-.png
As long as they don't contain spoilers, go ahead.
Okay. I'll post those of the 3 first novels only later today. Must upload them first and then prepare the posts.
Ooh, Kaori in the preview. And Touma's parents? He even made a comment about his mom. Maybe his mom's super hot and clingy?
Hopefully she's a MILF... the series needs someone like that with all the lolis running around.Quote:
Originally Posted by animus
I made that comment in the past too, it's like giving this guy 1 girl per arc just wasn't cutting it so they gave them 10000 to do as he pleasesQuote:
Originally Posted by RyougaZell
By manipulation i assumed that he meant that he could only change directions, not manipulate them to make them bigger or smaller. If he had the power to do that one punch wouldn't leave a hole in the ground, it would cut the world in halfQuote:
Originally Posted by Xelbair
He can clearly change magnitude. The only question left is whether there is a limit or not.
i think that there is - if there was not any limit he could create plasma instantly - and there would be no need for calculating the winds. Proof for Archie - he created explosion, he changed temperature of that air very fast. Changed, not reversed.
Sry to bring this up again, but this is really bugging me... because I still don't get it
Why didn't the alchemist in ep.8 summon a vampire if he can create exactly what he wants? (or save Index directly)
I mean he was able to shred the rune magican into pieces and bring him back to life..
so it's not like he needs to "know" how everything is done.. he can even produce the impossible... he can simply think "Save INDEX!!" and thats just what's going to happen.
Stiyl brought the same question into the conversation... and it was never answered.
Touma says that "he couldn't think of it" (for index to be saved) but I wonder why? because he has a plan and seems to know that it IS possible to expand her capacity... so all he has to do is pierce himself with that thingy and say "expand index memory capacity!" and it's done
and when he gained his Ars Magna, he should know that he is able to do the impossible, so why not a simply thing like that... I mean he has dedicated his life to save her, it's not really difficult to "think" about such a thing then
or is it, that he fears he will doubt himself when he tries to save Index and thus, making the Ars Magna useless and eventually kill Index? And tries to find a more "normal" and logical way (turn her into a vampire)?
Did I miss a point or something?
btw.. that episode I'm talking about was extremely good... legendary and really epic. Haven't seen such a thing before, I was really shocked when Stiyl was suddently torn apart like that... I couldn't believe my eyes ^^
They invented a very powerfull and cool enemy enemy there, I'd love to see more ideas like that
This was a huge part of it. Just like Kanzaki and Stiyl couldn't think of a way (or even try to think of a way) to save Index, the Izzard couldn't imagine a way to help Index with his own power. He also didn't have it, or have control over it (I forget which, but his power over the Ars Magna was very recent, after he had already lost Index).Quote:
Originally Posted by KrayZ33
It's the same reason that he defeated himself by imagining some horror on Touma's arm. It was far too dependent on his own thoughts. He doubted he would have a way to help Index, and wouldn't be able to save her.
He also probably couldn't imagine what a vampire was. Aisa knows what they are because she's killed so many of them, but Izzard knew next to nothing about them, only rumors, hence his half-assed plan to save Index. He didn't know how they were biologically different from humans, whether the rumor about their limitless knowledge was true, etc. He create what he can't fully imagine.
That's why Stiyl doubted him. Izzard's power was supposedly words, so if he merely said them, they should exist.
Kanzaki, Stiyl and Izzard were all of the same mind. They wanted to help Index, but they couldn't fathom that there was a way to change anything. Touma on the other hand, was "too dumb" to know there wasn't a way, so he tried. It worked. Izzard never tried, so there wouldn't be any way he could imagine simply helping her.
...that sound about right.
Steady state plasma seems to be hard to obtain, as he's shown. Like he's said, his power is vector change, not vector redirect, destroy-and-create-a-vector. He's got to calculate how much the change is to get it exactly where he wants it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelbair
As for why he took so long, he can only manipulate the breeze that touches him. Since there was no breeze to begin with, the starting stages would have been slow.
I too think there'll be some sort of limit, but it wasn't why he took so long to create such a huge ball of plasma.
He could change vectors of air particles that touches him adding, damn i don't know to call it in English, force that does not change speed(its vector not linear!) but the direction, like an charged particle in a magnetic field(its called there Lorentz force - and its equal to that force if that force was not present before) and do so that way that it would hit other particles near him and transmit kinetic energy through hitting(risk of small nuclear reaction but still - its way faster)other particles, and use magnetic field of electrons/protons to manipulate radiation(alpha and beta)
Vector change so he adds a X value to the vector.
Temperature doesn't have any vectors Xelbair, it's an energy form and not a force.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelbair
How does for gods sake temperature transmits between objects? by movement!
What is temperature? Initial energy!
what is it made of? Kinetic energy of particles!
what do the particles that have kinetic energy? move!
Well energy, and here temperature, is a scalar number. It's the result of an operation beetween vectors. So if you can manipulate the vectors behind, you can modify temperature too ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Archangel
For example take to pieces of metal, have them crash one into the other at high speed, you didn't directly change temperature, but having the pieces to collide did increase temperature by transforming quantity of movement and cinetical energy in heat.
FFS learn some physics before trying to post dipshitQuote:
Originally Posted by Xelbair
Yes he would be able to create heat by using friction but that's not the same as directly changing the temperature.Quote:
Originally Posted by David45
That's how he created that Dust Explosion
I'm not sure where this conversation's heading anymore. In the post underneath my previous, it looked like Xel was still talking about Accelerator only manipulating direction without magnitude.
Adding my 2c to this temperature discussion:
Temperature is a unit of measurement of heat (on that is dependant on the thermal characteristics of the medium/item bearing the temperature). As long as there is a temperature difference between two connected objects, there's a transfer of heat. Directed heat = vectored energy.
(And I agree that heat is really internal kinetic energy, but I fail to see the relevance)
Accelerator directly told MISAKA 10031 (the one killed in the alley) that he can manipulate the flow of heat and anything else. Heat always flows, (outside of ideal situations with "perfect" insulators) because there is always a temperature differential.
Dust Explosions aren't necessarily started with heat, they are nearly always caused by a spark. It wouldn't be hard for him to create sparks, all he has to do is toss an I-beam or whatever else around. A lot of them are started by a foolish worker entering a silo with a power tool. He could even just snap his fingers and manipulate the friction from that.
Wikipedia: over one-half of the dust explosions in Germany in 2005 were from non-flame sources.
I left outer space as an option for near perfect insulator, but yes, I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryllharu
My point is that Accelerator can't directly affect the temperature, he can only create physical phenomenons that may eventually create energy and indirectly raise it.
I agree. He created plasma by manipulating wind movement for a long time at a stupidly fast speed. The explosion was created by making the wind probably move so fast it created a spark as well.
Well archie - by increasing movement vectors of small particles he can change their speed right? higher speed equals more kinetic energy Ek=(m*V^2)/2, where m is mass of particle here, V is its speed, therefore he can change temperature - because temperature is internal energy of object - which is kinetic energy of its every particle(neutrons, protons, and electrons). So go learn physics yourself ok? this is elementary physics man.
That's all well and good, but he never said he can change states of energy. He can mess with the kinetic energy of something all he wants, but he has shown he needs to introduce that energy into the system before he can manipulate it. That's why he taps/kicks objects he wants to hurl, throws/flicks objects before they go warp speed, and stomps the ground when he wants to propel himself or make those fun ground explosions he kept using on Touma.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelbair
Internal energy isn't directly related to kinetic energy. Friction converts kinetic energy to internal energy, or one of the three forms of heat transfer: conduction (i.e. friction, which he can indirectly influence), convection (which is can actively control) or radiation.
However, he can only control convection of fluids (which convection entails by definition).
This is elementary heat transfer :p