You're right about that. I don't count this one as a victory. If Kira had fought to kill Shinn he wouldn't be there right now. I can't wait til the rematch.
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You're right about that. I don't count this one as a victory. If Kira had fought to kill Shinn he wouldn't be there right now. I can't wait til the rematch.
I sure Kira jumps form his mobile suit at the last minute. If you notice he raises his shield to block his cockpit , but Kira should know that it won't stop the blade. It will give him time to dive out and make everyone think he's dead though.
Shinn is a mental case, it's as simple as that... He thinks that by killing all "enemies" he will be doing the right thing toward his family (or himself in avenging them or something as stupid as that). He does feel better by killing his enemy because it sooths the pain of the ones he loved that died... It is common sence that people feel better when they are avenged. Shinn has just taken this to a totally different level by blaming everyone that steps on his toes and everyone that is an opposing party to what army he is fighting with...Quote:
Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Shinn had a "maniac face" because he was happy, no more no less.
@Shinji: WTF are you smoking? Since when does Shinn like killing? He does it to protect and save stuff, he isn't a fucking bloodthirsty nutcase.
I still say many of you let your hatred for Shinn cloud your judgement over what's happening in the show.
I would not want Shinn to join Kira and AA because he is such a mental case that he would destroy everything they are working for by going berserk every time he step out on the field of battle.
Kira and Lacus met Shinn earlier in the show on Orb before Zaft was expelled. The only reason Shinn won that battle was he a Rey did there homework and used the tactic that Kira doesn't kll to their advantage, not to mention his endless supply of gundam parts. Next battle he won't be so lucky.
By the way, Shinn doesn't know who Kira is, he only blames the "Freedom pilot" for his misery. When they met, they were all buddy like. Kira might be Shinn's mentor (although I recent that idea). Kira is too good for Shinn.
I take ur challenge and here's the example. Remember way back when Athrun just came back to zaft and Shinn didnt listen to Athrun's orders and destroyed the base(earth alliance's I think) and saved the men who were forced to work there by pulling away the fence so they could go back to their families. And then Athrun yelled at him for not obeying his orders. You should look at how Shinn became a zaft pilot. It started when his family was killed because of war. Now he is out to get all those who is trying to start wars. Look at his face when destroy was destroying cities and killing innocent people when he didnt know stellar was piloting it. Was he enjoying that? Nope, he was saying why would anyone want to do that. As for killing everyone that is fighting against zaft, well that's his job. He is a soldier afterall. But he does seem like a maniac taking revenge on ppl who has hurted him (kinda like Sasuke in Naruto).Quote:
Originally posted by: DDBen
Shinn had that face because he was celebrating avenging Stellar in his head.Quote:
Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Shinn had a "maniac face" because he was happy, no more no less.
@Shinji: WTF are you smoking? Since when does Shinn like killing? He does it to protect and save stuff, he isn't a fucking bloodthirsty nutcase.
I still say many of you let your hatred for Shinn cloud your judgement over what's happening in the show.
However, Terra I'm afraid that Shinn does enjoy killing to a certain degree. He certainly doesn't kill to protect anything instead he kills out of vengence every time. He didn't attempt to actually protect Stellar first dumping her on Neo and then standing there as Kira disabled destroy. In fact I can't think of a single time Shinn has ever fought to protect anything even when the Minerva has been attacked he has chosen to fight head on rather then to actually prevent the Minerva from taking damage. When they attempted to leave orb he simply got ticked off at the EA fleet and took the opertunity to get revenge for damaging his ego. When he saw the EA base being built and the civilians were being oppressed he took it upon himself to simply kill everyone in sight and take no prisoners not in fact choosing to protect the people from the possible shrapnel that he caused by shooting everything in site pointlessly.
I challenge you to give a single example where Shinns actions were purely for the purpose of protecting anything.
you should read my reply on the 10th page. Tactic does not mean luck, it means using ur brain btw and that was smart of him to use his impulse effectively since its not as good as freedom.Quote:
Originally posted by: valkirie19
Kira and Lacus met Shinn earlier in the show on Orb before Zaft was expelled. The only reason Shinn won that battle was he a Rey did there homework and used the tactic that Kira doesn't kll to their advantage, not to mention his endless supply of gundam parts. Next battle he won't be so lucky.
you should count the number of times Kira cried in GS, I can promise you its at least as much as Shinn did if not more. And that fight where Kira and Athrun fought was because they both killed each other's friend so they both gone really mad at each other so I dont see how it was different xcept for the fact that none of their frds destroyed cities.Quote:
Originally posted by: valkirie19
Not to mention he's always crying about losing a family member or friend. What about everyone else in the show, Kira, Fley,Cagali,Athrun, Lacus. They never went off the deep end like Shinn has. Kira and Athrun did fight to the death against each other in GS, but not for reasons like Shinn. I 'm sorry but their friends weren't out commiting genocide on whole cities.
I dont even think they were like buddies at all. It was the first and only time they met so it was more like strangers talking to each other politly. I wonder why they show that flashback of them meeting though cause I doubt Shinn knows who is piloting freedom...Quote:
Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari
By the way, Shinn doesn't know who Kira is, he only blames the "Freedom pilot" for his misery. When they met, they were all buddy like. Kira might be Shinn's mentor (although I recent that idea). Kira is too good for Shinn.
He definitely was in seed mode the whole time but he doesn't fight as hard as crybaby Shinn, and doesn't have as many girlish acessoriesas Shinn is a barbie doll for Gundam. Not to mention he's always crying about losing a family member or friend. What about everyone else in the show, Kira, Fley,Cagali,Athrun, Lacus. They never went off the deep end like Shinn has. Kira and Athrun did fight to the death against each other in GS, but not for reasons like Shinn. I 'm sorry but their friends weren't out commiting genocide on whole cities.
@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.
Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.
Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.
Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.
War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.
Shinn just wanted to be the "hero". It made him feel like he was almighty and powerful and better than everyone else.Quote:
Originally posted by: heero
I take ur challenge and here's the example. Remember way back when Athrun just came back to zaft and Shinn didnt listen to Athrun's orders and destroyed the base(earth alliance's I think) and saved the men who were forced to work there by pulling away the fence so they could go back to their families. And then Athrun yelled at him for not obeying his orders. You should look at how Shinn became a zaft pilot. It started when his family was killed because of war. Now he is out to get all those who is trying to start wars. Look at his face when destroy was destroying cities and killing innocent people when he didnt know stellar was piloting it. Was he enjoying that? Nope, he was saying why would anyone want to do that. But he does seem like a maniac taking revenge on ppl who has hurted him (kinda like Sasuke in Naruto).Quote:
Originally posted by: DDBen
Shinn had that face because he was celebrating avenging Stellar in his head.Quote:
Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Shinn had a "maniac face" because he was happy, no more no less.
@Shinji: WTF are you smoking? Since when does Shinn like killing? He does it to protect and save stuff, he isn't a fucking bloodthirsty nutcase.
I still say many of you let your hatred for Shinn cloud your judgement over what's happening in the show.
However, Terra I'm afraid that Shinn does enjoy killing to a certain degree. He certainly doesn't kill to protect anything instead he kills out of vengence every time. He didn't attempt to actually protect Stellar first dumping her on Neo and then standing there as Kira disabled destroy. In fact I can't think of a single time Shinn has ever fought to protect anything even when the Minerva has been attacked he has chosen to fight head on rather then to actually prevent the Minerva from taking damage. When they attempted to leave orb he simply got ticked off at the EA fleet and took the opertunity to get revenge for damaging his ego. When he saw the EA base being built and the civilians were being oppressed he took it upon himself to simply kill everyone in sight and take no prisoners not in fact choosing to protect the people from the possible shrapnel that he caused by shooting everything in site pointlessly.
I challenge you to give a single example where Shinns actions were purely for the purpose of protecting anything.
and Shinn is NOT trying to stop the people who are starting wars. [Where did you get this insane idea from anyways?] He just wants revenge, and to "destroy the enemy"[If he continues this, the war will NEVER stop...unless they blow up Earth.] Shin is one of the one's keeping the war going. He refuses to see that anyone but himself has been hurt, and the pain and suffering he must have caused countless families because of his stupid, yet militaristic thoughts.
[To other people on this forum: Please forgive me if I sound like I'm just repeating your thoughts and stuff. I'll find the quotes and stuff if it's that big a deal.]
I agree and its not like Shinn has done anything wrong. He was just doing his job following orders. When it comes to wars, it is not the soldiers who are wrong, it is the leaders who lead them into wars are.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.
Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.
Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.
Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.
War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.
Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.
Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.
Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.
Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.
War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.
Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.
Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)
No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.
>>>>I agree and its not like Shinn has done anything wrong. He was just doing his job following orders. When it comes to wars, it is not the soldiers who are wrong, it is the leaders who lead them into wars are.<<<<
Not done anything wrong? His smile after defeating Freedom shows that what he does is wrong, not by orders, but because he does it for the wrong reasons... If it would have been Athrun he would have done it reluctlantly but still follow his orders, he would not grin and go out to battle just waiting to kill someone... And when Shinn has been jumping from ship to ship killing of EAF and ORB forces that were pulling back. "Hell yeah", that is the correct actions to take. Following orders and following orders isn't the same thing when one does it with a smile on his face and the other with pain.
So what makes/made Kira and the AA crew different? Why were they able to see things from the leaders point of view, and act on what they felt was right? Why doesn't anyone else see it that way? What makes people follow orders without hesitation, or when they know it's wrong?
Quote:
Originally posted by: Digitalgirl
So what makes/made Kira and the AA crew different? Why were they able to see things from the leaders point of view, and act on what they felt was right? Why doesn't anyone else see it that way? What makes people follow orders without hesitation, or when they know it's wrong?
??? Have you watched GS?
Kira has been fighting for everyone and no one always. He fights to end battles, in every battle he has made an apperance, it has been to stop EAF, Orb and ZAFT from fighting, you might say that he and AA is the mother between two brothers fighting... No one gives him or AA the right except that they fight for both EAF and for ZAFT just like a mother does... ZAFT fights to destroy brother nr 1 and EAS fights to destroy nr 2... So Mother has to protect them both from doing the wrong thing, and she might get a kick or two for doing the right thing, but eventually, they'll all see it mothers way and stop fighting.
That is the difference oh ignorant one
Man, these ep discussion threads are getting long.... But a guess this ep deserves it. Very fun. I loved the scene with the AA turning a corner and running right into their enemy was great, and I liked the ships' near miss too. Shinn and Kira's fight did not disappoint either. Shinn knew Kira would go for the arms and legs, so he just arranged to have them replaced and kept on fighting. I like how at the end Kira realized that his suit was too damaged and Shinn was still in good shape, He knew he was going to lose and was like "No! not here!"
And after this ep I've decided to join the "Shinn is evil" side (note, this is different from the "I hate Shinn" group, 'cause actually I think he's ok, just evil). There have been a lot of hints here and there, his ignoring Athrun's warnings to spare civilians while fighting, his irrational obsession with revenge, his evil giggle after shooting down Kira (really, he's got to work on that laugh), but, mainly, its his red eyes and evil eyebrows. I mean, just look at that expression. There's no way a guy with eyebrows like that could be a good guy :p
When you reply to what I say you should actually read wat I say before you ask how I got my ideas because I just wrote a whole paragraph that answers ur question. Rather it would be a good question to ask where you get the idea that Shinn just wants to be a hero. Did you not see Shinn's response to Dullindal's speach about defeating the Logo's and end war finally. He was smiling. Why would Shinn want more war so he could be a hero and kill everyone when his family and friend died because of it? Yes maybe he's becoming more ignorant because of his success over time but still doesnt mean that he's doing all of this just to be a hero. Also you should rewatch that episode where Shinn made a long speach with Dullindal way back when Haine made his first appearance. It totally supports my opinion and answers your question of "where I get my "insane" idea from". I think it was insane of you say Shinn is the one keeping the war going because he is only a soldier. If the leader of zaft didnt give any orders to fight, do you think any of this would be the same?Quote:
Originally posted by: Digitalgirl
Shinn just wanted to be the "hero". It made him feel like he was almighty and powerful and better than everyone else.Quote:
Originally posted by: heero
I take ur challenge and here's the example. Remember way back when Athrun just came back to zaft and Shinn didnt listen to Athrun's orders and destroyed the base(earth alliance's I think) and saved the men who were forced to work there by pulling away the fence so they could go back to their families. And then Athrun yelled at him for not obeying his orders. You should look at how Shinn became a zaft pilot. It started when his family was killed because of war. Now he is out to get all those who is trying to start wars. Look at his face when destroy was destroying cities and killing innocent people when he didnt know stellar was piloting it. Was he enjoying that? Nope, he was saying why would anyone want to do that. But he does seem like a maniac taking revenge on ppl who has hurted him (kinda like Sasuke in Naruto).Quote:
Originally posted by: DDBen
Shinn had that face because he was celebrating avenging Stellar in his head.Quote:
Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Shinn had a "maniac face" because he was happy, no more no less.
@Shinji: WTF are you smoking? Since when does Shinn like killing? He does it to protect and save stuff, he isn't a fucking bloodthirsty nutcase.
I still say many of you let your hatred for Shinn cloud your judgement over what's happening in the show.
However, Terra I'm afraid that Shinn does enjoy killing to a certain degree. He certainly doesn't kill to protect anything instead he kills out of vengence every time. He didn't attempt to actually protect Stellar first dumping her on Neo and then standing there as Kira disabled destroy. In fact I can't think of a single time Shinn has ever fought to protect anything even when the Minerva has been attacked he has chosen to fight head on rather then to actually prevent the Minerva from taking damage. When they attempted to leave orb he simply got ticked off at the EA fleet and took the opertunity to get revenge for damaging his ego. When he saw the EA base being built and the civilians were being oppressed he took it upon himself to simply kill everyone in sight and take no prisoners not in fact choosing to protect the people from the possible shrapnel that he caused by shooting everything in site pointlessly.
I challenge you to give a single example where Shinns actions were purely for the purpose of protecting anything.
and Shinn is NOT trying to stop the people who are starting wars. [Where did you get this insane idea from anyways?] He just wants revenge, and to "destroy the enemy"[If he continues this, the war will NEVER stop...unless they blow up Earth.] Shin is one of the one's keeping the war going. He refuses to see that anyone but himself has been hurt, and the pain and suffering he must have caused countless families because of his stupid, yet militaristic thoughts.
[To other people on this forum: Please forgive me if I sound like I'm just repeating your thoughts and stuff. I'll find the quotes and stuff if it's that big a deal.]
Some people believe in honor and some people believe in duty. Some believe in both. There are others besides the AA and her crew that share these views that they do. Talia for one has sympathies for the AA as shown in 34. Even Todoka but he was duty bound to listen to that pussy Yuna. The EAF saluting Todoka going down in the ship. Honor, Duty, Pride, Selfishness. We get all of these from different angles.
Shinn is totally fed up with himself now as the best pilot. He probably thinks he can walk on water. That smug ass look he had as they approached the AA and he was getting ready to launch. I just can't wait till he is in trouble fighting some enemy when all of a sudden Strike Freedom comes in with Kira or something blowing the weapon up saving Shinn. Utter and total humiliation for Shinn. But first I want to see Athrun slap the shit out of him a few times when Shinn gets back on the Minerva.
I never said anything about "by law." Try looking past your own face and see the reality of the situation. Baka.Quote:
Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari
Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.
Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)
No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.
*breathe* I was not saying his actions are right and just. I never did. What I WAS saying, and people seem to stupidly ignore this whenever the topic comes up, is that NOBODY is bound by the same code of ethics, the same sense of right and wrong, as other people. Just because you think it's wrong of him to do the things he does, doesn't mean he has to think that way. In his mind, he feels he's doing the right thing: fighting LOGOS and the people responsible for the pain Stellar had through her life (experimentation crap), fighting the one he sees as responsible for the death of his comrades and loved ones (right or not).
No, everyone does NOT have to be rational. It would be nice, it would make the world a better place, but nobody HAS to do it. You're showing your naivety, and your Kira-loving and pro-Shinn-bashing, by taking this stance.
No one gives him or AA the rightQuote:
Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari
Quote:
Originally posted by: Digitalgirl
So what makes/made Kira and the AA crew different? Why were they able to see things from the leaders point of view, and act on what they felt was right? Why doesn't anyone else see it that way? What makes people follow orders without hesitation, or when they know it's wrong?
??? Have you watched GS?
Kira has been fighting for everyone and no one always. He fights to end battles, in every battle he has made an apperance, it has been to stop EAF, Orb and ZAFT from fighting, you might say that he and AA is the mother between two brothers fighting... No one gives him or AA the right except that they fight for both EAF and for ZAFT just like a mother does... ZAFT fights to destroy brother nr 1 and EAS fights to destroy nr 2... So Mother has to protect them both from doing the wrong thing, and she might get a kick or two for doing the right thing, but eventually, they'll all see it mothers way and stop fighting.
That is the difference oh ignorant one
That depends on your def. of "right". What gives Zaft and the EAF the "right" to go to war and to kill each other?
Saying that it is wrong to follow orders with a smile on his face but it would be right for Kira to do the same with a sad face (I know he hasnt in GSD but he did in GS) is abit weak of an arguement. I still dont think it is wrong for what Shinn has done so far but rather he is turning to a maniac you could say.Quote:
Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari
Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.
Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.
Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.
Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.
War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.
Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.
Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)
No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.
>>>>I agree and its not like Shinn has done anything wrong. He was just doing his job following orders. When it comes to wars, it is not the soldiers who are wrong, it is the leaders who lead them into wars are.<<<<
Not done anything wrong? His smile after defeating Freedom shows that what he does is wrong, not by orders, but because he does it for the wrong reasons... If it would have been Athrun he would have done it reluctlantly but still follow his orders, he would not grin and go out to battle just waiting to kill someone... And when Shinn has been jumping from ship to ship killing of EAF and ORB forces that were pulling back. "Hell yeah", that is the correct actions to take. Following orders and following orders isn't the same thing when one does it with a smile on his face and the other with pain.
Yeah, everyone has his own etics and reactions, but after that? One has to take control of his life to realize that his behaviour up til that point has been wrong.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
I never said anything about "by law." Try looking past your own face and see the reality of the situation. Baka.Quote:
Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari
Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.
Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)
No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.
*breathe* I was not saying his actions are right and just. I never did. What I WAS saying, and people seem to stupidly ignore this whenever the topic comes up, is that NOBODY is bound by the same code of ethics, the same sense of right and wrong, as other people. Just because you think it's wrong of him to do the things he does, doesn't mean he has to think that way. In his mind, he feels he's doing the right thing: fighting LOGOS and the people responsible for the pain Stellar had through her life (experimentation crap), fighting the one he sees as responsible for the death of his comrades and loved ones (right or not).
No, everyone does NOT have to be rational. It would be nice, it would make the world a better place, but nobody HAS to do it. You're showing your naivety, and your Kira-loving and pro-Shinn-bashing, by taking this stance.
>>>No one gives him or AA the right
That depends on your def. of "right". What gives Zaft and the EAF the "right" to go to war and to kill each other?<<<
No, they gave themselves the right to interfere because they know that what they are doing is to help end the war, it doesn't really help that EAF and ZAFt is throwing in more guns in the fire to make it pop even louder. Dullindal claims to be fighting for justice, Logos also claims to fight for justice... So why is everyone fighting? This is stupid... The only reason AA started fighting was because Zaft and EAF started fighting, thus, AA can't be wrong because they aren't taking sides but fighting for both... Kira has saved countless by shooting a lot of MS down and he has also saved the Minerva, Orb military... He saves lives that EAF and ZAFT is destroying...
No one gave him the right or told him this is what you need to do. He and AA tries to save everyone withour trying to gain anything from this war whilst both EAF and ZAFT leaders are trying to gain something.. The ones who does something without thinking of themselves must be the ones that are correct when trying to save something. Because they all claim that is what they want.
Why is it weak?Quote:
Originally posted by: heero
Saying that it is wrong to follow orders with a smile on his face but it would be right for Kira to do the same with a sad face (I know he hasnt in GSD but he did in GS) is abit weak of an arguement. I still dont think it is wrong for what Shinn has done so far but rather he is turning to a maniac you could say.
And that exactly what is so wrong with Shinn, he is mad, he is insane and needs help. Which one would you rather have, a person who just loves to shoot people or the one who does it because he is told to?
My argument is not weak because it is based upon how actions and war are born... With people like Shinn, war could never end and with people like Kira war is fought for everyone to end with the smallest amount of damage... That is where the difference in following an order with a smile and with a sad face changes so much.
okay saying that shinn follows orders is wrong cause he doesnt. he follows himself and no one else. did he follow orders when he took stellar back to neo? he is disrespecful to superiors and acts as if he is the bigshot on the minerva. the only reason he fought freedom was to avenge stellar for his own personal gain.Quote:
Originally posted by: heero
Saying that it is wrong to follow orders with a smile on his face but it would be right for Kira to do the same with a sad face (I know he hasnt in GSD but he did in GS) is abit weak of an arguement. I still dont think it is wrong for what Shinn has done so far but rather he is turning to a maniac you could say.Quote:
Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari
Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.
Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.
Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.
Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.
War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.
Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.
Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)
No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.
>>>>I agree and its not like Shinn has done anything wrong. He was just doing his job following orders. When it comes to wars, it is not the soldiers who are wrong, it is the leaders who lead them into wars are.<<<<
Not done anything wrong? His smile after defeating Freedom shows that what he does is wrong, not by orders, but because he does it for the wrong reasons... If it would have been Athrun he would have done it reluctlantly but still follow his orders, he would not grin and go out to battle just waiting to kill someone... And when Shinn has been jumping from ship to ship killing of EAF and ORB forces that were pulling back. "Hell yeah", that is the correct actions to take. Following orders and following orders isn't the same thing when one does it with a smile on his face and the other with pain.
i would like to end this with im not saying this because i dislike shinn which i do. i say it because its like that, he does as he pleases and follows the orders he wants to follow.
I'd have to bow to that.... You are totally correct... SO I'd have to change what I said to following orders to go out to the battle field.
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]Quote:
Yeah, everyone has his own etics and reactions, but after that? One has to take control of his life to realize that his behaviour up til that point has been wrong
Wow, you just have a one track mind, don't you. You admit you're wrong, but then stick with the same unreasonable line.
Ok, I'll be Shinn's advocate for a moment: "I am a soldier for ZAFT. My job is to stop the enemy, whomever it may be at the time."
That right there justifies, to himself at least, every life taken in combat, as well as his attempt to kill Kira.
on a more personal level "My family was killed in part due to war and the government's choice to make our country hostile ground, which is a result of their attempts to do nothing towards one side or the other at war. the EAF has tortured and scarred Stellar with their experiments, and was later killed by Freedom. (in his mind, though the details of her death are debated here). I must destroy the EAF/LOGOS for their atrocites, and Freedom for being reponsible for the death of my friends."
There, so far most of what he's done has been rationalized and justified IN HIS MIND.
I dare you to come up with a reason that someone with that mindset should "Suddenly realize what he's been doing is wrong" that does not include your own sense of right and wrong forced on him. In the situation that he's in, with the experiances that he's had, with the mindset I've described, there is absolutly no reason he should change his stance or ways that doesn't include "Well, he's wrong in my mind and in what I see to be the grand scheme of things."
Like you said, Shinn needs help. And what does he get? More and more of his loved ones died. So how can he be the one to blame and how can he be hated. And of course Kira is the ideal personality and can even be compared to God but that kind of thing dont happen in real life. You wont see a person running out in the middle of a war between to countries and tries to stop them because why? That person will end up dead. Kira is acting like he is because the story is suppose to make him like a hero and save the day. While Shinn is more a typical realistic person. If someone goes and kills your whole family, you would want to take revenge on that person too rather than being mister nice guy and tells him to go home and not do it again.Quote:
Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari
Yeah, everyone has his own etics and reactions, but after that? One has to take control of his life to realize that his behaviour up til that point has been wrong.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
I never said anything about "by law." Try looking past your own face and see the reality of the situation. Baka.Quote:
Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari
Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.
Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)
No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.
*breathe* I was not saying his actions are right and just. I never did. What I WAS saying, and people seem to stupidly ignore this whenever the topic comes up, is that NOBODY is bound by the same code of ethics, the same sense of right and wrong, as other people. Just because you think it's wrong of him to do the things he does, doesn't mean he has to think that way. In his mind, he feels he's doing the right thing: fighting LOGOS and the people responsible for the pain Stellar had through her life (experimentation crap), fighting the one he sees as responsible for the death of his comrades and loved ones (right or not).
No, everyone does NOT have to be rational. It would be nice, it would make the world a better place, but nobody HAS to do it. You're showing your naivety, and your Kira-loving and pro-Shinn-bashing, by taking this stance.
>>>No one gives him or AA the right
That depends on your def. of "right". What gives Zaft and the EAF the "right" to go to war and to kill each other?<<<
No, they gave themselves the right to interfere because they know that what they are doing is to help end the war, it doesn't really help that EAF and ZAFt is throwing in more guns in the fire to make it pop even louder. Dullindal claims to be fighting for justice, Logos also claims to fight for justice... So why is everyone fighting? This is stupid... The only reason AA started fighting was because Zaft and EAF started fighting, thus, AA can't be wrong because they aren't taking sides but fighting for both... Kira has saved countless by shooting a lot of MS down and he has also saved the Minerva, Orb military... He saves lives that EAF and ZAFT is destroying...
No one gave him the right or told him this is what you need to do. He and AA tries to save everyone withour trying to gain anything from this war whilst both EAF and ZAFT leaders are trying to gain something.. The ones who does something without thinking of themselves must be the ones that are correct when trying to save something. Because they all claim that is what they want.
Why is it weak?Quote:
Originally posted by: heero
Saying that it is wrong to follow orders with a smile on his face but it would be right for Kira to do the same with a sad face (I know he hasnt in GSD but he did in GS) is abit weak of an arguement. I still dont think it is wrong for what Shinn has done so far but rather he is turning to a maniac you could say.
And that exactly what is so wrong with Shinn, he is mad, he is insane and needs help. Which one would you rather have, a person who just loves to shoot people or the one who does it because he is told to?
My argument is not weak because it is based upon how actions and war are born... With people like Shinn, war could never end and with people like Kira war is fought for everyone to end with the smallest amount of damage... That is where the difference in following an order with a smile and with a sad face changes so much.
I've said this before if he had any intention of trying to save her he would have done 1 of 2 things. Either Shinn would have surrendered with Stellar or he would have attempted to steal what he needed to keep her alive and ran off somewhere to be with just her. As instead he turned her over to Neo and ran back to the Minerva its my feeling Shinn abandoned her instead of protecting her and in turn gave him a reason to blame someone else if something happened to her.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
A) He HAD to give Stellar to Neo, or she would have died, plain and simple. I know it sucks, but Shinn could either give her to Neo and hope beyond reason that Neo didn't get her killed, or just watch helplessly as a loved one died right next to him. Again. Unless you're thinking that ZAFT would miraculously come up with a way to treat her with limited specialty equipment an a war vessel.
Indeed upon learning it was Stellar Shinn attempted to calm her down but only after Kira shot down Neo did it matter. Had Neo not been shot down then Stellar wouldn't have stopped for Shinn and instead if Shinn tried saying anything Neo would have told Stellar that Shinn was bad and trying to kill Stellar. In every case Stellar had chosen Neo over Shinn.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
B) He was still trying to calm Stellar down. He was focused on her and her mental state, not on what Freedom was doing. If Freedom was not in Stellar's line of vision, she would not have fired her cannons, and Freedom wouldn't have needed to disable Destroy to save Shinn. I'm not saying it's Freedom's fault exactly, as Kira didn't know exactly who and what was going on, but saying that it in any way Shinn's fault is pure fiction. He had her calmed down. She had stopped firing, because of Shinn, and if given some more time, he prolly could have coaxed her out.
I would also like to say that PSJ definatly has stated the facts earlier on this page about Shinn I have no reason to quote this.
Somehow, I don't think Shinn would be able to determine what was needed to keep her alive. He's not a medical expert, and the ships doctor didn't even have the tech or knowledge to keep Stellar alive. So can we say that this one is a slim and extremely unlikely choice?Quote:
or he would have attempted to steal what he needed to keep her alive and ran off somewhere to be with just her
And surrendering to your enemy is not exactly an ideal choice. You should see what they do to enemy soldiers when they are captured in wars...
Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
Somehow, I don't think Shinn would be able to determine what was needed to keep her alive. He's not a medical expert, and the ships doctor didn't even have the tech or knowledge to keep Stellar alive. So can we say that this one is a slim and extremely unlikely choice?Quote:
or he would have attempted to steal what he needed to keep her alive and ran off somewhere to be with just her
Both of these are unlikely to work the fact is they are more likely then Neo sending his Ace off to work on a bunny farm. The point is his actions were not those of someone trying to protect something but instead those of someone attempting to pass the buck so he doesn't have to take responsability. I would say that having Steller kill tens of thousands of people with destroy was clearly a much better option then doing anything that could instead endanger your own life.Quote:
Originally posted by: heero
And surrendering to your enemy is not exactly an ideal choice. You should see what they do to enemy soldiers when they are captured in wars...
most of you guys talking right now are real idiots i mean seriously at this point of the story do you think shinn is the same when GSD first started all that crap he was saying its out the window he has no remorse for his actions blaming everyone else for things that are his fault. you guys are in love with the character too much you talk as if all the things that shinn is doing is right and everthing the AA is doing is wrong, everyone from eaf to zaft in the story is saying there fighting to protect themselves wrong there being manipulated by people who are causing wars for their own gain. so why is what the AA is DOING WRONG. one more thing for those of you who think shinn now wholes supremacy in the GSD shinn lovers just shut up okay clearly that fight BS accept shinn is just a madman whose gonna die
All right I am sorry but please spare me. He was indeed trying to protect Stellar when he gave her to Neo. At the moment it was a better option than watching her suffer until she gets disected alive or dies on the bed all scared and crying. I don't know about you but I would have done the same thing. He wasn't trying to dodge responsibility. He was doing the only thing that he could do to possibly save her. He couldn't have possibly known that Neo was going to have her slaughter three cities full of innocent people with the Destroy. If you love someone are you just going to let them suffer and be disected when you promised to protect them or are you going to give them back to the only person who could possibly save them. I would choose the second one cause it is what the average sane person would do. If I was Shinn I would probably want revenge on Kira too. Even tough Stellar deserves no kind of forgiveness whatsoever from anyone Shinn loved her and she loved him and love makes you do stupid things. Example: While Kira was fighting Rau he flew straight for Fllay completely ignoring the most dangerous suit on the field at the moment. I 'm not saying this cause I like Shinn just so you know.Quote:
Originally posted by: DDBen
Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
Somehow, I don't think Shinn would be able to determine what was needed to keep her alive. He's not a medical expert, and the ships doctor didn't even have the tech or knowledge to keep Stellar alive. So can we say that this one is a slim and extremely unlikely choice?Quote:
or he would have attempted to steal what he needed to keep her alive and ran off somewhere to be with just her
Both of these are unlikely to work the fact is they are more likely then Neo sending his Ace off to work on a bunny farm. The point is his actions were not those of someone trying to protect something but instead those of someone attempting to pass the buck so he doesn't have to take responsability. I would say that having Steller kill tens of thousands of people with destroy was clearly a much better option then doing anything that could instead endanger your own life.Quote:
Originally posted by: heero
And surrendering to your enemy is not exactly an ideal choice. You should see what they do to enemy soldiers when they are captured in wars...
Yeah, thread's getting pointless now, with both sides being close-minded on the issues at hand.
*places brick wall b/w two sides to watch them bash their heads against it*
There we go, that looks about right....
Interesting how people go about defining what the "typical person" would be like. You can't justify a common mentality so simply. I'd say that pre-GSD, Kira was about as human as... well, myself for one. You're given two points of views, one person may handle the same situation differently, but it doesn't make them ... for lack of better word, atypical. I'm not sure what kind of normal society (this can vary in itself) some live in, but typical nature can be derived from the kind of atmosphere someone is brought up in.
Dare I say, Kira is just as guilty of playing the berserker role as Shinn pre-GSD. When Tolle was killed, Kira's (and even Athrun's) mentality mirrored Shinn's own: kill the enemy for satisfaction. The difference now is that you have someone who has had time to reflect on such cases; I believe Kira strikes a point of wisdom inbetween GS and GSD, whereas Shinn has yet to even stride for any such pinnacle (or realize that he may have to for that matter).
As for who is the better pilot, I certainly don't doubt Shinn's skill. He's probably hit the apex of his performance, although I'm quite interested in how he'd compare to Athrun. Athrun? Yea, well we've already seen that he's about as capable as the benchmark; when he and Kira go at it, they're in a state of brinkmanship and in one instance hit stalemate, which is rather scary. Kira still seems to be the only one who could, uh, pop his seed (eheh) at will, under little pressure and such. The others will pop under pressure or out of extreme emotional cycling. Kira was wrecked in this episode, but I don't believe it justifies the overall level of skill. Perhaps this time Shinn may have been better due to his exploiting Kira's weakness--though it is one that Kira could probably override easily; the desire not to kill costs him pretty badly. Kira factors out enormous target vs. several segmented subsystems for the sake of his opponents and his conscience. We've already seen that he'll still make exceptions in certain situations though (saving Shinn vs. allowing Stellar's rampage to continue)... I think Kira is exceedingly better, although he did get pummeled due to his weakness.
I wouldn't mind seeing Cagalli go at it again, wasn't she able to berserk during the last episodes of GS? A yellow seed? They didn't show enough of that ;-;!
On a lighter note I really like Haro^2 & Tori^2 :-)
http://img193.echo.cx/img193/363/shinndead3sr.png
^ [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]~~~~~
The key difference with Kira playing the berserker was that he felt bad about it. It was something he didn't like about himself, and this allowed him to change. He has already grown past revenge 5 episodes after the Athrun fight, when he has the opportunity to kill Yzak and flashes back to Yzak's killing of a shuttle load of innocents (this damned Yzak in my mind. Saving Cagali helps... a little). At that point, just a little while later, Kira has made his choice not to kill if he doesn't have to (remember, he didn't hesitate to kill Rau. He probably wont if he gets another chance at Shin, too).Quote:
Originally posted by: xat
Interesting how people go about defining what the "typical person" would be like. You can't justify a common mentality so simply. I'd say that pre-GSD, Kira was about as human as... well, myself for one. You're given two points of views, one person may handle the same situation differently, but it doesn't make them ... for lack of better word, atypical. I'm not sure what kind of normal society (this can vary in itself) some live in, but typical nature can be derived from the kind of atmosphere someone is brought up in.
Dare I say, Kira is just as guilty of playing the berserker role as Shinn pre-GSD. When Tolle was killed, Kira's (and even Athrun's) mentality mirrored Shinn's own: kill the enemy for satisfaction. The difference now is that you have someone who has had time to reflect on such cases; I believe Kira strikes a point of wisdom inbetween GS and GSD, whereas Shinn has yet to even stride for any such pinnacle (or realize that he may have to for that matter).
As for who is the better pilot, I certainly don't doubt Shinn's skill. He's probably hit the apex of his performance, although I'm quite interested in how he'd compare to Athrun. Athrun? Yea, well we've already seen that he's about as capable as the benchmark; when he and Kira go at it, they're in a state of brinkmanship and in one instance hit stalemate, which is rather scary. Kira still seems to be the only one who could, uh, pop his seed (eheh) at will, under little pressure and such. The others will pop under pressure or out of extreme emotional cycling. Kira was wrecked in this episode, but I don't believe it justifies the overall level of skill. Perhaps this time Shinn may have been better due to his exploiting Kira's weakness--though it is one that Kira could probably override easily; the desire not to kill costs him pretty badly. Kira factors out enormous target vs. several segmented subsystems for the sake of his opponents and his conscience. We've already seen that he'll still make exceptions in certain situations though (saving Shinn vs. allowing Stellar's rampage to continue)... I think Kira is exceedingly better, although he did get pummeled due to his weakness.
I wouldn't mind seeing Cagalli go at it again, wasn't she able to berserk during the last episodes of GS? A yellow seed? They didn't show enough of that ;-;!
On a lighter note I really like Haro^2 & Tori^2 :-)
http://img193.echo.cx/img193/363/shinndead3sr.png
^ [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]~~~~~
Shinn has shown no such developement, at all, in this series. However, I do think he's a great character. I just dont like him and hope he dies.
And I thought cagali had a red SEED? Was it yellow?
SEED color is based on eyes color, so Cagalli has yellow (or kinda brown) SEED.
I am pretty sure that Athrun can open his seed at will just like Kira. Just noone has given him reason enough to do it yet. Cagalli... I'm not sure about her. One thing is for sure though. When those seeds open then they better come with a serious can of ass whooping for whoever they are opening them for cause they need to make up for not doing it these past 34 episiodes. Man how I still wish Cagalli went seed on Shinn when he decided to butcher the orb ships. Would've been interesting but didn't happen... oh well.
They're mixing up seed colors for some reason because last time I saw Kira going into seed mode Athrun's green seed was shown.
first of all i want to point out i like both Shinn and Kira as characters and no i won't pick a favourite..
Freedom got wrecked that much is certain, lots of debris floating in the ocean as you can see in the ending shots
although reality and common sense state that Kira can't possibly be alive we also have seen him survive a similar
scene back in GS (Athrun/Kira fight where Athrun self destructed), that plus the fact there's info about a new and improved Freedom i think we haven't seen the last of Kira
from the flashes of the coming episodes i assume that the Destiny Gundam will finally make it's appearance
so Shinn will get Destiny, Impulse is passed on the whomever, i don't care to much about that
concluding from episodes 33 and 34 it looks like Athrun got some sense knocked back into him
Gladys' statements and Kira's presumed death should have created a shock big enough for him to come back to reality and be the skilled pilot he obviously was back in GS
to conclude, i'm happy for Shinn and hope he finds some piece in his heart now, the boy really needs it
Rey needs to stop fuelling Shinn's rage (yes yes he fuels it just listen to what he says to Shinn all the time)
and Kira will most likely be back with a brand new suit, and i'm very anxious to see Shinn's reaction when and if he recognizes the pilot and suit he'll be fighting once more (well most likely be fighting once more)
to be honest, and this is not just a Shinn fanboy comment, Shinn would've whooped Cagalli's ass if it was one on one, because i really think that you can't compare Shinn and Cagalli as mobile suit pilotsQuote:
Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
I am pretty sure that Athrun can open his seed at will just like Kira. Just noone has given him reason enough to do it yet. Cagalli... I'm not sure about her. One thing is for sure though. When those seeds open then they better come with a serious can of ass whooping for whoever they are opening them for cause they need to make up for not doing it these past 34 episiodes. Man how I still wish Cagalli went seed on Shinn when he decided to butcher the orb ships. Would've been interesting but didn't happen... oh well.
it's true that Cagalli fought at Yakin Due (sp??) and killed some folks and even went Seed there
but based on actual fighting experience you have to admit that Shinn has the advantage over Cagalli
but ofcourse we saw in this episode experience isn't everything because the more experienced Kira (which i still think him to be) lost to Shinn
that's not true actuallyQuote:
Originally posted by: antoine
They're mixing up seed colors for some reason because last time I saw Kira going into seed mode Athrun's green seed was shown.
last time we actually saw Kira's seed pop was in episode 32, the Destroy fight and it clearly is purple (11:15 on episode 32)
Please not I for one lack any reason to justify the Love between Stellar and Shinn that so many people like to point out. To me Stellar loves Neo he's the person she always called out for first and the one that she always listened to and followed reguardless. While on the other hand Shinn aside from claiming he would protect Stellar as to me he saw her as a defenceless girl more of a sister really then a lover at any point. Shinn never so much as kissed her the most relevant thing we have is flying naked time when she was in destroy which really just showed she was glad to see him. In the end Neo's words were more powerful then Shinn's and thus Kira disabled Destroy.Quote:
Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
All right I am sorry but please spare me. He was indeed trying to protect Stellar when he gave her to Neo. At the moment it was a better option than watching her suffer until she gets disected alive or dies on the bed all scared and crying. I don't know about you but I would have done the same thing. He wasn't trying to dodge responsibility. He was doing the only thing that he could do to possibly save her. He couldn't have possibly known that Neo was going to have her slaughter three cities full of innocent people with the Destroy. If you love someone are you just going to let them suffer and be disected when you promised to protect them or are you going to give them back to the only person who could possibly save them. I would choose the second one cause it is what the average sane person would do. If I was Shinn I would probably want revenge on Kira too. Even tough Stellar deserves no kind of forgiveness whatsoever from anyone Shinn loved her and she loved him and love makes you do stupid things. Example: While Kira was fighting Rau he flew straight for Fllay completely ignoring the most dangerous suit on the field at the moment. I 'm not saying this cause I like Shinn just so you know.
I will state something once again I have absolutely NO idea how Stellar could have died and her final words remain to be directly translated to "Shinn like" and not "Shinn I love you" as was interpreted by subbers as Suki litterally means like I see her statement more of one made to a older brother who just protected his sister then of one lover to another. Also please note that when she dies that Shinn remembers his sisters death above that of his parents which continues to aim me at she was more of a sibling.
You can absolutely love a sister or brother in a differn't way and I do see that Shinn could only see her as a victum who he wanted to try and protect from the harshness of war. Also please note comparing Fllay to Stellar is just something that shouldn't be done. Fllay is rather close to Shinn in that they both went insane upon watching there family die in front of them and in the end Fllay right before dying had finally turned around and started regretting what she had done and in turn we had naked time with Kira and Fllay where she became Kira's guardian angel.
In the end I believe Stellar really was more of a reflection on Kira as a what if situation. One where Fllay instead of being the girl who snapped was instead Shinn who had snapped and become a MS pilot. Where instead Stellar much like Shinn was forced into a position where she believed she had to fight in order to protect those closest to her much like Kira did in all of Gundam Seed.
As far as Shinn goes realise that even after finding out it was Stellar and after Neo was shot down that Shinn did not blame Neo or Stellar but instead Kira who was nothing more or less then the one to disable Stellars suit and save Shinn's life. Perhaps if Shinn had bothered to check on Stellar, who obviously was not bleeding and also had no noteable disfigurement, was infact dead or had just had a problem that may have been treatable before dumping her in a lake she could have been saved. Or had he really wanted to avenge her and in turn have his actions be for her it would have to me atleast been more fitting for him to take her pendant and wear it for the rest of the series. All Shinn does instead is toss the body and his humanity and go into vengence mode the guy at this point in the series is a complete nutcase and I find that case impossible to argue.
shin needs to die. Kira didn't even go into seed mode and if he was trying to kill him he would of taken down shin no problem. I seriously hate whoever made destiny right now. They made the main charecter the worst in the world and i think they need to die right along with shin (kira is my favorite charecter)
well it's obvious Kira is your fav but for the record, Kira WAS in Seed mode, they just didn't show his seed popping like with Shinn's, you get an eyeshot of Kira in the latter part of the episode (17:55 into the episode) and you can clearly see he is in seedmode (no sparkle and such you know)Quote:
Originally posted by: monkeyman
shin needs to die. Kira didn't even go into seed mode and if he was trying to kill him he would of taken down shin no problem. I seriously hate whoever made destiny right now. They made the main charecter the worst in the world and i think they need to die right along with shin (kira is my favorite charecter)
edit: just look at the way Kira's eyes look at 3:05 into the episode and 17:55 into the episode (3:05 is before the opening and 17:55 obviously after it)
WTF Kiras got no purpose in GSD, hes no longer the main character. A matter of fact i think Kira was only in GSD to be defeated by Shinn to show Shinns power. Hes got no purpose or else he would be the main character instead of Shinn. As for your comment on Shinn not being able to take out Kira, thats bs because he just did like in this episode proves. Kira doesnt have the faith of the world on his hands and protecting his love ones because hello this isnt GS this is GSD and hes no longer the main character. So go cry some more under your bedsheets that kira got his ass kicked !
disregard, was beaten to the punch on Kira being in Seed Mode.
true, Kira is no longer THE main character but he is A main characterQuote:
Originally posted by: Pwas
WTF Kiras got no purpose in GSD, hes no longer the main character. A matter of fact i think Kira was only in GSD to be defeated by Shinn to show Shinns power. Hes got no purpose or else he would be the main character instead of Shinn. As for your comment on Shinn not being able to take out Kira, thats bs because he just did like in this episode proves. Kira doesnt have the faith of the world on his hands and protecting his love ones because hello this isnt GS this is GSD and hes no longer the main character. So go cry some more under your bedsheets that kira got his ass kicked !
and according to your logic Athrun should take a dive too then, since he obviously has no purpose at all yet
except being yelled at by Shinn
edit: damn look at me, been defending Shinn since the beginning more or less and now i sound like a Kira fanboy
i'll just go "cry under my bedsheets" now [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img] cheers!
Then again Shinn's going down the exact path kira was.
No, while similar, there is a large difference.
1) Kira vs Athrun: Both were friends before, and they didn't want to kill each other at first, until friends died- then after that they calmed down and worked it out (after Strike and Aegis blew up).
2) Kira vs Shinn: Neither knew of the other, and all Shinn has known from Kira's actions is pain, and misery. (not that it was Kira's intention). Shinn only wants Kira's head on a pike, and has no interest in being friends with him.
Because of that difference, Shinn has a different path- it looks similar, but it's not.
Kira is not the main character, he is the Hero.Quote:
Originally posted by: Pwas
WTF Kiras got no purpose in GSD, hes no longer the main character. A matter of fact i think Kira was only in GSD to be defeated by Shinn to show Shinns power. Hes got no purpose or else he would be the main character instead of Shinn. As for your comment on Shinn not being able to take out Kira, thats bs because he just did like in this episode proves. Kira doesnt have the faith of the world on his hands and protecting his love ones because hello this isnt GS this is GSD and hes no longer the main character. So go cry some more under your bedsheets that kira got his ass kicked !
Shinn may not end up being the main villain, but he's certainly on the right track.
If you compare the characters, Shinn has been on the way down since the start of the series. He's gone from standard soldier to hardened, cocky, battle butcher. Directly opposite of Kira.
And in this series, Kira has grown into more of a Hero character than before. We dont see any of the doubt, or the confusion of the first series. Kira is confident in his decisions, and is not worrying about whether what he is doing is right. He believes his actions are right, and acts on them.
Think of this like Star Wars where Shinn is Anakin. This is the story of his fall, and Kira is like Obi Wan. His purpose is to be the hero, to protect the people, save the girl, and find the treasure. Or something like that.
Quote:
Originally posted by: Digitalgirl
it's true...the director announced long time ago that Kira is the main charactor in gsdQuote:
Originally posted by: PTX-003C
What the fuck?Quote:
Originally posted by: Mut@chi
what are you talking about...kira just lost today....Quote:
Originally posted by: PTX-003C
Stupid fucking fight.
I hate this MAIN CHARACTER HAS TO WIN bullshit.
main characters does lose
.....Well I dislike shinn...and I hate him even more after he started going insane...but he is a decent character..it was a bit of a BS fight though....but KIRA SEEMED to be in SEED mode the whole time...but what is confusing me is that don't they always show when someone goes seed?
I am not sure what to beleive about these long forgotten quotes above, Did the director actually announce that Kira was the main character of GSD. if so, everything makes so much more sense. Shinn beating Kira, sets Shinn up for a major fall in later episodes. If not Then Kira is the Hero or at least that is my opinion. I think Shinn is turning evil, he may even turn out to be a bad guy. If not how will the director get shinn out of the mental state he is in to make him out to be the Hero..or the MAIN character, which is questionable...because some people say that the director already announced Kira was the main character. Shinn I think is insane. I dislike Shinn a lot but that is not really clouding my judgment about anything. Shinn fought really really well, he out piloted Kira in that fight, but that was for a lot of reasons already mentioned.
For the record Kira is most definatley alive, this reminds of the time when athurna destroyed Kira's MS, it was already announced that Kira is piloting Strike Freedom...and about the explosion I am totoally lost on that., however Kira's fate probably won't be revealed for a couple of eps.
Athuran should most def come back to being normal after this last ep. This was def. a wake up call, but who knows.
About stellar agree with the sister brother thing, but nothing is really proven about that, They may have loved each other more.
Kira and Shinn took very different paths ins GS/GSD...they maty look similar but they are not. I almost agree that Shinn is jsut a male version of frey...but he may be the main character...
Personally I am hoping whoever I quoted about the director saying Kira is the main character is right...! Kira is my fav....
Say, is it me or is Mu regaining his memories?
He said something like
"Geez, why is this place always like this"
And then he seemed surprised he said that.
All I gotta say is
RAMIUS IS BACK!
It almost looked like he scared himself when he said that.Quote:
Originally posted by: cybercoin
Say, is it me or is Mu regaining his memories?
He said something like
"Geez, why is this place always like this"
And then he seemed surprised he said that.
I think this is supposed to be subtle evidence that he is in fact Mu, and not a replica. Because up to this point, everything can still be explained if he's a clone. Him regaining memories, as shown here, of the AA, can not be explained if he's a clone.
both of them are main characters. it was the same in seed with asuran and kira they were both main characters.Quote:
Originally posted by: ch4kz
Quote:
Originally posted by: Digitalgirl
it's true...the director announced long time ago that Kira is the main charactor in gsdQuote:
Originally posted by: PTX-003C
What the fuck?Quote:
Originally posted by: Mut@chi
what are you talking about...kira just lost today....Quote:
Originally posted by: PTX-003C
Stupid fucking fight.
I hate this MAIN CHARACTER HAS TO WIN bullshit.
main characters does lose
.....Well I dislike shinn...and I hate him even more after he started going insane...but he is a decent character..it was a bit of a BS fight though....but KIRA SEEMED to be in SEED mode the whole time...but what is confusing me is that don't they always show when someone goes seed?
I am not sure what to beleive about these long forgotten quotes above, Did the director actually announce that Kira was the main character of GSD. if so, everything makes so much more sense. Shinn beating Kira, sets Shinn up for a major fall in later episodes. If not Then Kira is the Hero or at least that is my opinion. I think Shinn is turning evil, he may even turn out to be a bad guy. If not how will the director get shinn out of the mental state he is in to make him out to be the Hero..or the MAIN character, which is questionable...because some people say that the director already announced Kira was the main character. Shinn I think is insane. I dislike Shinn a lot but that is not really clouding my judgment about anything. Shinn fought really really well, he out piloted Kira in that fight, but that was for a lot of reasons already mentioned.
For the record Kira is most definatley alive, this reminds of the time when athurna destroyed Kira's MS, it was already announced that Kira is piloting Strike Freedom...and about the explosion I am totoally lost on that., however Kira's fate probably won't be revealed for a couple of eps.
Athuran should most def come back to being normal after this last ep. This was def. a wake up call, but who knows.
About stellar agree with the sister brother thing, but nothing is really proven about that, They may have loved each other more.
Kira and Shinn took very different paths ins GS/GSD...they maty look similar but they are not. I almost agree that Shinn is jsut a male version of frey...but he may be the main character...
Personally I am hoping whoever I quoted about the director saying Kira is the main character is right...! Kira is my fav....
No, I'm pretty sure they never showed Lacus going SEED. Even though she did have the eyes.Quote:
Originally posted by: ch4kz
[
.....Well I dislike shinn...and I hate him even more after he started going insane...but he is a decent character..it was a bit of a BS fight though....but KIRA SEEMED to be in SEED mode the whole time...but what is confusing me is that don't they always show when someone goes seed?
.
That does make more sense haveing them both as main characters....now I wonder who will end up coming into the Hero character, I know Kira came into being more of the Hero rather then Athuran in GS, but Athuran was still up there, but Kira is already a Hero now, will Shinn ever take that roll away from Kira, with Shinn's mentaltiy I doubt it. Shinn is going a bit mad...but you never know with this director, he throws a lot of twisits, plus uses a lot of plot scenes from other series. I think Kira will eventually come out on top, juat because he is the Hero and the 'ultimate coordinator'. I doubt Shinn will be able to take that roll away from Kira because of his mentality and the way the story is progressing. It is hinting more and more that Shinn is going evil, but almost similar things happend to Kira in GS, but I think Kira's reasons and reactions were always more just...you could say. Shinn's and Kira's path look simila r but they are not at all....Kira's defeat now sets Shinn up for a big defeat later on, but it may never happend...Shinn may evolve by some miracle...but i really don't want that to happen...
That what I thought about Seed...Kira was in SEED...my friend seems to think otherwise....he refused to beleive shinn can take Kira in seed...I do to, but it happend....even though there were a lot of distractions..
Now on to....bashing..the director should burn for makuing shinn beat KIRA!!!....
I hope shinn gets beaten really really bad...because I truly want Shinn to die soon....I wanna see him get smashed by strike freedom.(there no reason to reply to this bashing...because its just me stating my opinion and what I want to happend)...I know some other people would like Kira to stay dead...but w.e....SHINN SHOULD DIE...he is a maniac
The stuff above was what you should be replying about...that is actually as non biased as it get...just going along with what i have seen)
Quote:
Originally posted by: ch4kz
That does make more sense haveing them both as main characters....now I wonder who will end up coming into the Hero character, I know Kira came into being more of the Hero rather then Athuran in GS, but Athuran was still up there, but Kira is already a Hero now, will Shinn ever take that roll away from Kira, with Shinn's mentaltiy I doubt it. Shinn is going a bit mad...but you never know with this director, he throws a lot of twisits, plus uses a lot of plot scenes from other series. I think Kira will eventually come out on top, juat because he is the Hero and the 'ultimate coordinator'. I doubt Shinn will be able to take that roll away from Kira because of his mentality and the way the story is progressing. It is hinting more and more that Shinn is going evil, but almost similar things happend to Kira in GS, but I think Kira's reasons and reactions were always more just...you could say. Shinn's and Kira's path look simila r but they are not at all....Kira's defeat now sets Shinn up for a big defeat later on, but it may never happend...Shinn may evolve by some miracle...but i really don't want that to happen...
That what I thought about Seed...Kira was in SEED...my friend seems to think otherwise....he refused to beleive shinn can take Kira in seed...I do to, but it happend....even though there were a lot of distractions..
Now on to....bashing..the director should burn for makuing shinn beat KIRA!!!....
I hope shinn gets beaten really really bad...because I truly want Shinn to die soon....I wanna see him get smashed by strike freedom.(there no reason to reply to this bashing...because its just me stating my opinion and what I want to happend)...I know some other people would like Kira to stay dead...but w.e....SHINN SHOULD DIE...he is a maniac
The stuff above was what you should be replying about...that is actually as non biased as it get...just going along with what i have seen)
Shinn shouldn't die. He should have a chance to see the good way of doing things. If he continues to be crazy killing bastard, then he should get sabered in the final episode. Heh.
As for Shinn beating Kira, who cares really? We know Kira isn't dead, and he is gonna get some uber mobile suit now. Though I don't understand why everyone thinking Shinn is the greatest pilot ever, he had every possible advantage(he was prepared, Kira was watching Archangel, etc.) and had a mobile suit that took advantage of Kira's non-willing to kill. Though I'm not saying Shinn is a bad pilot by any means.
CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!!?!?!?!oneonequestionmark?!?!!?!?!
there is more than 1 main character in gsd, and if you can't understand that, deal with it or cry.
Kira took on his main character role after he was dragged into the war, and there would be no reason for him to be a main character otherwise.
Shinn has made his greatest accomplishment, but as many others have said, NOW WHAT?
NOW WHAT? is a very good question indeed.
I'm curious how there gonna wrap everything up in the next 16 episodes..
Antione...if you havent read my post...I SAID i understoond there were two main characters...I am saying which one will become the HERO character in the end...MAIN AND HERO ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS....blahh now what...we will just have to wait an see. We all know that if certain stuff happends people will start ranting off again, Like people have and i have a bit...anyway you asked the most logical question in this topic...yet ^_^
Xwingrob...didn't I say there was no point in replying to my bashing...Its jsut what I want to happend in my dreams...see shinn die. ...~_^...but really I don;'t actually hate shinn I jsut don't agree with what the director did, to many holes...but it doesn't matter what is done is done, we jsut got to wait and find out. i am trying to get along, I haven't made any crude remarks about anything except int eh bashing part...wich i told people to ingore.
I my last post the 1st parqraph was the my true response...the bashing was jsut to let out some stress(second paragraph.
I still think Shinn may go evil. I am not saying its true, I am just saying it is a possiblity....
If kira does end up dead which i highly doubt...i am 100 percent sure kira will remain alive, Mwu may take strike freedom...blahh that won't happend so you can almsot forgot i said it, I just had to say it.
Hmm, I guess you did say it. My bad.Quote:
Originally posted by: ch4kz
Xwingrob...didn't I say there was no point in replying to my bashing...Its jsut what I want to happend in my dreams...see shinn die. ...~_^...but really I don;'t actually hate shinn I jsut don't agree with what the director did, to many holes...but it doesn't matter what is done is done, we jsut got to wait and find out. i am trying to get along, I haven't made any crude remarks about anything except int eh bashing part...wich i told people to ingore.
the battle between kira and shinn is over for now the next battle is the smacking that asuran is gonna give shinn. but on to another note its clear that shinn is most likely gonna be the bad guy i doubt he will join the AA its makes no sense for him to join that ship and i doubt they can change him in these last 16 episodes. finally Shinn can not and will never be able to defeat kira the supreme mobile suit pilot his only rival is asuran
well i was referring to everyone as a whole, but my apologies.
no problem, My bad. I took it the wrong way. ^_^...
what do u think of the chairman, he has been annoying me lately. I love the kind of character he is ie: a manipulative ass!..but i dislike him because he is manipulating people against my fav character...
Asurna should def lay the smack down on shinn,.
What an excellent episode. I was crying in joy as Shinn totally won me over with his devastating sexyness which was oh so flamboyantly displayed ( the split evade was just DIVINE! ), and the laughter in the end was simply perfect icing on the cake. It was about time Kira got pushed off his high horse and fell right into the dirt. Hopefully, he will die. If not, he should at least stop acting like an arrogant imbecile and start using those "awesome skills" he has in a proper way.
you mean by using his "awsome skills" in the proper way as kill shinn who's a total moron with them? then yes, use them in the "proper way"
Yup. I mean, it is pretty sad to be totally owned by a "total moron," isn't it?Quote:
Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
you mean by using his "awsome skills" in the proper way as kill shinn who's a total moron with them? then yes, use them in the "proper way"
Kira has considered himself completely superior to everyone else up until now. He has thought that he can just waltz in, disable everyone else, and then waltz out with a broad smile on his lips. It's about time someone set him straight on that, and in the process damage his heavily inflated ego.
Call Shinn whatever you want, at least he made some research, some planning and went in with the intent to kill his opponent rather than just humiliate him.
When i first saw GSD i hated shinn with a passion, but eventually i started liking him. He is his own character, the 'anti-hero', not one of those athrun/kira clones i initially predicted him to be, and thankfully, because of this, the story of GSD is more interesting.
For this battle, i give shinn props. He uses every advantage given to him, and his shield move was extremely skilled. Freedom however, seemed a bit toned down in this fight, and i am now confused as to why the GS crew threw in that 'Kira is the ultimate coordinator' line in the first series, because that is totally disproven here.
Shinn however, is long over due for some humbling, and i sincerely hope Athrun redeems himself next ep by kicking shinn's ass, haha, even if it gets him arrested. Shinn needs to know the consequences of his actions, how releasing stellar resulted in so many people dying. His laugh at the end was really disturbing.
Also, if there is any fairness at all (which i doubt there is), i hope that they at least pronounce shinn's Impulse as 'damaged beyond repair'. This helps keep Shinn's power in check as well as give some tribute to how difficult freedom was taken down. Plus... when Kira eventually owns shinn, it just won't feel the same when he has a better suit [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] and shinn doesn't.
Ive seen those, I've also seen some little comic called the K.O.S(king of seed) its pretty funny IMO
ooh...I wanna see. link if you can plz.
lol athrun wont be arrested, he's FAITH [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] lol he can do whatever he wants
I'll put it in the GS Funnies thread
i agree that the disconnection dodge move Shinn pulled along with the shield reflecting shot was really awesome
especially since it looked like Kira intended to strike his cockpit when he dodge it by disconnecting his suit
so it shows that Shinn really has skill to back his attidude (which i find refreshing)
well Seed itself ended literally being mostly holesQuote:
Originally posted by: ch4kz
but really I don;'t actually hate shinn I jsut don't agree with what the director did, to many holes
alot of issues were left undiscussed and unexplained
and those 2 episodes where Rau made his plans known to Kira and Mwu simply added more holes and thus confusion but i find that to be a factor that kept drawing me back to Seed and now to Destiny
i want to fill up those holes if possible
labelling Shinn as becoming a bad guy i can understandQuote:
Originally posted by: Dannynonsense
the battle between kira and shinn is over for now the next battle is the smacking that asuran is gonna give shinn. but on to another note its clear that shinn is most likely gonna be the bad guy i doubt he will join the AA its makes no sense for him to join that ship and i doubt they can change him in these last 16 episodes. finally Shinn can not and will never be able to defeat kira the supreme mobile suit pilot his only rival is asuran
but somewhat stating that the AA and it's crew are the "good guys" i don't agree too
because the things they've done resulted in alot of people getting killed and that's just not something "good guys" typicaly do right?
but in the end it's all a matter of opinion
shinn was in berserk seed mode while kira was just in normal seed mode.
well then who would you consider as the good guys of the story did you forget that Zaft and EAF are fighting for their own gain not because of what they so call claimQuote:
Originally posted by: Motteh
i agree that the disconnection dodge move Shinn pulled along with the shield reflecting shot was really awesome
especially since it looked like Kira intended to strike his cockpit when he dodge it by disconnecting his suit
so it shows that Shinn really has skill to back his attidude (which i find refreshing)
well Seed itself ended literally being mostly holesQuote:
Originally posted by: ch4kz
but really I don;'t actually hate shinn I jsut don't agree with what the director did, to many holes
alot of issues were left undiscussed and unexplained
and those 2 episodes where Rau made his plans known to Kira and Mwu simply added more holes and thus confusion but i find that to be a factor that kept drawing me back to Seed and now to Destiny
i want to fill up those holes if possible
labelling Shinn as becoming a bad guy i can understandQuote:
Originally posted by: Dannynonsense
the battle between kira and shinn is over for now the next battle is the smacking that asuran is gonna give shinn. but on to another note its clear that shinn is most likely gonna be the bad guy i doubt he will join the AA its makes no sense for him to join that ship and i doubt they can change him in these last 16 episodes. finally Shinn can not and will never be able to defeat kira the supreme mobile suit pilot his only rival is asuran
but somewhat stating that the AA and it's crew are the "good guys" i don't agree too
because the things they've done resulted in alot of people getting killed and that's just not something "good guys" typicaly do right?
but in the end it's all a matter of opinion
chitgoks, plz dont bring up that "there are 2 seed modes", discussion, cause actually there isnt a thing as a seed mode, its called berserk mode, the "Seed" is a different thing
Ya thanks for bringing that disconnection dodge up when Kira tried to hit the cockpit because many ppl said Kira lost because he didn't even try to kill Shinn. Well as you can see he did eventually but did not succeed.Quote:
Originally posted by: Motteh
i agree that the disconnection dodge move Shinn pulled along with the shield reflecting shot was really awesome
especially since it looked like Kira intended to strike his cockpit when he dodge it by disconnecting his suit
so it shows that Shinn really has skill to back his attidude (which i find refreshing)
You should know that the story is based on a war and when it comes to wars it's hard to draw lines between good and evil. Basically anyone who is fighting in a war has killed someone eventually. And it's not even clear what Dullindal's intentions are so far. The only clear cut bad guy would probably be that purple lips guy from the Logos. And the clear cut good guys are probably the AA crew since the story made them look like the saviors of the world. The rest of the ppl are more on the grayish area.Quote:
Originally posted by: Dannynonsense
well then who would you consider as the good guys of the story did you forget that Zaft and EAF are fighting for their own gain not because of what they so call claim
He wasn't aiming for the cockpit. He was aiming for the legs, but when Shinn seperated, the gap the beam saber went through makes it look like he tried it. If you pause right before it seperates and put your finger where the seperation line is, once you hit play you can see that the swing by Kira was below where the connection point is, thus below the cockpit.Quote:
Originally posted by: heero
Ya thanks for bringing that disconnection dodge up when Kira tried to hit the cockpit because many ppl said Kira lost because he didn't even try to kill Shinn. Well as you can see he did eventually but did not succeed.Quote:
Originally posted by: Motteh
i agree that the disconnection dodge move Shinn pulled along with the shield reflecting shot was really awesome
especially since it looked like Kira intended to strike his cockpit when he dodge it by disconnecting his suit
so it shows that Shinn really has skill to back his attidude (which i find refreshing)
There are two seed modes rewatch Seed and the animations. There are two seperate types of going seed. There is the beserk SEED mode. And then the more controlled SEED mode that kira shows where he is more calm and collected. Can't get technical on the differences but there definately seems to be a difference of control. If you dont want to call it two different modes call it two different states of being. There is the initial entering of seed mode through emotional pain and loss where you have little control as your emotionally driven. Kill people when you don't fully intend to. Then there is the state you enter of your own will where you seem to be more level headed and what not.Quote:
Originally posted by: darkshadow
chitgoks, plz dont bring up that "there are 2 seed modes", discussion, cause actually there isnt a thing as a seed mode, its called berserk mode, the "Seed" is a different thing
Sorry this got really long but there are alot of people butting heads over who is better.
It looks like some people still are argueing over who is a better pilot between Shinn and Kira? Why is this? Kira is established throughout SEED as to be the Ultimate Coordinator. His abilities rival anything that was allowed to be reengineered. His genetics are flawless having been born in an artificial womb where no anomalies that normally occur could affect his development. The only one that is gonna come close to him in piloting is Canard Pars. Capabilities wise he is your best bet at Kira's equal followed by Athrun who was the after product of all the stuff they did in the ultimate coordinator project that they felt was safe to apply and would hold a benefit.
I doubt the increased spatial awareness "newtype abilities" will show up in Athrun thou.
But anyways I'd like to hear why someone thinks Shinn is a better pilot. For one him beating Kira doesn't make him a better pilot. Just like me kicking any of your asses in a FPS by using health and armor cheatcodes means I'm better. You could of Stuck Rey or Mwu/Neo in Impulse and the outcome would of been the same. You could of stuck Shinn in Justice and he would of lost to Kira. Impulse and its capability to in essence regenerate from damage and Kira's no kill policy is the reason Shinn won.
I'll again give props to Shinn he pulled it off masterfully. The tactics he used were fricken brilliant. Best strategic fight I've seen yet in Gundam. But it was the cheapest ass thing in the world. But hey its a war and in that anything goes. Just don't give me crap saying that Shinn > Kira in piloting. I'm tired of reading these misinformed posts throughout this thread saying its not cheap and that Shinn is stronger than Kira and better. Kira wasn't even really paying attention to Shinn till Shinn went SEED. I mean he would do alil dodge here and there but he actually had time to send a text message to the Archangel for it to leave and goto ORB with cagalli. Come on. Shinn is good and keeps getting better but hes still not upto snuff yet. Hopefully thou now with a better suit he will reach a higher potential.
I keep envisioning Shinn launching and expecting Kira to just aim for the arms and head like Rey said then Kira deciding that hes tired of being delayed by this guy. He keeps getting in my way like Athrun and just bam shooting Impulse with everything instead of holding back and sticking to his guns with the no kill policy. He did what he set out to thou. He was escort and AA got away safely with Cagalli from the looks of things. They were well into the water by the time the gun fired. The more I watch that last scene the more it looks like Kira may have intended to take that last hit. He specifically took out Impulse's head. Why did he want to take out Shinn's main camera? Does he eject or was he covering for AA again. With his last action he prevented the AA from pursuing AA since Impulse was slagged.
SEED mode and "berserk" SEED mode are the same thing. The ONLY differance is the emotional state of the person that entered SEED mode.
I agree...i think the difference would be Kira/Seed has a Greater awareness to his surroundings than Shinn/BerserkerSeed who is only focused on Killing Kira/Revenge...Quote:
Originally posted by: Curium
SEED mode and "berserk" SEED mode are the same thing. The ONLY differance is the emotional state of the person that entered SEED mode.
QFE. Well said.Quote:
Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
But anyways I'd like to hear why someone thinks Shinn is a better pilot. For one him beating Kira doesn't make him a better pilot. Just like me kicking any of your asses in a FPS by using health and armor cheatcodes means I'm better. You could of Stuck Rey or Mwu/Neo in Impulse and the outcome would of been the same. You could of stuck Shinn in Justice and he would of lost to Kira. Impulse and its capability to in essence regenerate from damage and Kira's no kill policy is the reason Shinn won.
I'll again give props to Shinn he pulled it off masterfully. The tactics he used were fricken brilliant. Best strategic fight I've seen yet in Gundam. But it was the cheapest ass thing in the world. But hey its a war and in that anything goes. Just don't give me crap saying that Shinn > Kira in piloting. I'm tired of reading these misinformed posts throughout this thread saying its not cheap and that Shinn is stronger than Kira and better. Kira wasn't even really paying attention to Shinn till Shinn went SEED. I mean he would do alil dodge here and there but he actually had time to send a text message to the Archangel for it to leave and goto ORB with cagalli. Come on. Shinn is good and keeps getting better but hes still not upto snuff yet. Hopefully thou now with a better suit he will reach a higher potential.
I keep envisioning Shinn launching and expecting Kira to just aim for the arms and head like Rey said then Kira deciding that hes tired of being delayed by this guy. He keeps getting in my way like Athrun and just bam shooting Impulse with everything instead of holding back and sticking to his guns with the no kill policy. He did what he set out to thou. He was escort and AA got away safely with Cagalli from the looks of things. They were well into the water by the time the gun fired. The more I watch that last scene the more it looks like Kira may have intended to take that last hit. He specifically took out Impulse's head. Why did he want to take out Shinn's main camera? Does he eject or was he covering for AA again. With his last action he prevented the AA from pursuing AA since Impulse was slagged.
well said except for the last sentence lol! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
[quote]
Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
[quote]
Originally posted by: darkshadow
It looks like some people still are argueing over who is a better pilot between Shinn and Kira? Why is this? Kira is established throughout SEED as to be the Ultimate Coordinator. His abilities rival anything that was allowed to be reengineered. His genetics are flawless having been born in an artificial womb where no anomalies that normally occur could affect his development. The only one that is gonna come close to him in piloting is Canard Pars. Capabilities wise he is your best bet at Kira's equal followed by Athrun who was the after product of all the stuff they did in the ultimate coordinator project that they felt was safe to apply and would hold a benefit.
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finally someone who knows about Canard Pars isnt he kira's brother also what do you mean by Asuran being the after product of all the stuff from the ultimate coordinator project
but then even after shinn gone seed mode...kira is still sticking to the no-kill policy aint he?Quote:
Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
I keep envisioning Shinn launching and expecting Kira to just aim for the arms and head like Rey said then Kira deciding that hes tired of being delayed by this guy. He keeps getting in my way like Athrun and just bam shooting Impulse with everything instead of holding back and sticking to his guns with the no kill policy. He did what he set out to thou. He was escort and AA got away safely with Cagalli from the looks of things. They were well into the water by the time the gun fired. The more I watch that last scene the more it looks like Kira may have intended to take that last hit. He specifically took out Impulse's head. Why did he want to take out Shinn's main camera? Does he eject or was he covering for AA again. With his last action he prevented the AA from pursuing AA since Impulse was slagged.
LOL you know this has always been on my mind.. what if you kira used his shield or some sorta of mirror to reflect those beams that allow the impluse to attach itself.. lmao make the arm go into the leg slot leg into head etc :3
anyways shinn was avoiding the inveitable.. pft trying to save stellar? she cant even live without the dome thing she recharges in, shes bound to die, but i was laughing when shinn dropped stellar into the lake LOL boy was that amusing, this is how i saw it... she isnt DEAD yet.. shinn just dropped her into the water knowing she CAnnot swim, then realizing that she is still alive when her arms reach upwards LOL, and in his head "OH SHIT shes ALIVE!! I DIDNT KILL HER IT WAS KIRA! KIRA THAt bastard i'll get revenge!!"
shinn and athrun looks like they have snapped..
yes he didnt say otherwise. as for kira taking out shinns camera i think that would be to give him and the AA a window to escape, he wanted to take that last hit, that was for sure. only thing im wondering about is how that big ass sword can go through a shield while a normal beam sabre cant?
been wondering about that as wellQuote:
Originally posted by: PSJ
only thing im wondering about is how that big ass sword can go through a shield while a normal beam sabre cant?
maybe because the tip of the sword that first penetrated the shield wasn't a beam i think so maybe the substance sword tip (you know what i mean) went through the shield?
since phase armor is good against substance hits like swords and missiles but weak to beams and the shield maybe is otherwise?
the side of the sword have something pink colour...izzit it that cause the shield to be penetrated?
i watch the last hit by kira frame by frame...seem like he was aimming under the cock pit
the pink on the sword is the same stuff as a beam sabre. and it would be a sucky shield if it couldnt take a hit from something that isnt a beam sabre or shot.
The shield was penetrated cause Shinn flew full speed at Kira. Kira just happened to look away at the wrong time and didn't parry it.
unless his beam cannons were damaged, he shouldn've used it instead of the shield.Quote:
Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
The shield was penetrated cause Shinn flew full speed at Kira. Kira just happened to look away at the wrong time and didn't parry it.
well if that shield got penetrated like that shinn must have found a surface that was straight and didnt have any angles at all, if the shield would have been a little angled shinn would have just slided off.
When Shinn struck Kira's shield, he first hit with the tip- because of the extreme speed he was flying, it created an incredible amount of force at ONE point, the point of contact. Shinn basically turned himself into a Gundam sized armor piercing round.
If the sword was denser than the shield, the sword would have ripped through like tissue paper.... how it then penetrated PS armor with non-beam stuff is beyond me, the only other example of that I can think of is where Kira shivved Yzak back near the begginning of SEED.
Oh well.
This is by far the best explination of how Stellar died that I have heard [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] That and it made me laugh.Quote:
Originally posted by: iesu 350z
anyways shinn was avoiding the inveitable.. pft trying to save stellar? she cant even live without the dome thing she recharges in, shes bound to die, but i was laughing when shinn dropped stellar into the lake LOL boy was that amusing, this is how i saw it... she isnt DEAD yet.. shinn just dropped her into the water knowing she CAnnot swim, then realizing that she is still alive when her arms reach upwards LOL, and in his head "OH SHIT shes ALIVE!! I DIDNT KILL HER IT WAS KIRA! KIRA THAt bastard i'll get revenge!!"
Shinn's sword piercing both the shield and the phase shift armor on its own was about as likely as him reflecting a shot from the beam riffle off of his own shield which disperses beams and melting the shoulder of freedom. Oh and also as likely as Kira never using his rail guns or wing cannons. Having now seen the subbed version of this episode I definatly feel that Kira was making it so Shinn would believe he won. Kira and the AA were aiming specifically to do as little damage as possible so Zaft would have no excuse or footage to call them a enemy. Freedom on the otherhand had already disabled several suits and thus Zaft would have footage of it "attacking them" if they needed it from the Minerva's logs anyway. So whats the best thing for Kira to do. After watching a major blast from the Minerva's main cannon he disabled Shinn's Sensors and fled into the water after allowing the sword to pierce Freedom in a noncritical location.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
When Shinn struck Kira's shield, he first hit with the tip- because of the extreme speed he was flying, it created an incredible amount of force at ONE point, the point of contact. Shinn basically turned himself into a Gundam sized armor piercing round.
Also note Shinn definatly did some damage and Kira was having difficulty ignoring him however Shinn never really had the advantage in this fight. Kira cutting off the head and arm of the chest flyer was always with the intention if disabling Shinn's sensors so the AA could escape into the ocean. In the end he took the sword into his suit to get a sure fire hit on the head of Impulse making it unable to dodge or swing the sword to make a more critical hit on Freedom.
Its seems that Phase-Shift is not as all powerful as it was thought to be....Yzak's Duel took a beating just from 2 puny daggers in GS....you think that with nuclear energy powering Freedom's PS making it infinite PS, the blow would have been lessened...though i would agree with Impulse throwing its whole weight behind that one strike, no armour can hold up to that kind of pressure
Quote:
Originally posted by: DDBen
This is by far the best explination of how Stellar died that I have heard [img][/img] That and it made me laugh.Quote:
Originally posted by: iesu 350z
anyways shinn was avoiding the inveitable.. pft trying to save stellar? she cant even live without the dome thing she recharges in, shes bound to die, but i was laughing when shinn dropped stellar into the lake LOL boy was that amusing, this is how i saw it... she isnt DEAD yet.. shinn just dropped her into the water knowing she CAnnot swim, then realizing that she is still alive when her arms reach upwards LOL, and in his head "OH SHIT shes ALIVE!! I DIDNT KILL HER IT WAS KIRA! KIRA THAt bastard i'll get revenge!!"
Shinn's sword piercing both the shield and the phase shift armor on its own was about as likely as him reflecting a shot from the beam riffle off of his own shield which disperses beams and melting the shoulder of freedom. Oh and also as likely as Kira never using his rail guns or wing cannons. Having now seen the subbed version of this episode I definatly feel that Kira was making it so Shinn would believe he won. Kira and the AA were aiming specifically to do as little damage as possible so Zaft would have no excuse or footage to call them a enemy. Freedom on the otherhand had already disabled several suits and thus Zaft would have footage of it "attacking them" if they needed it from the Minerva's logs anyway. So whats the best thing for Kira to do. After watching a major blast from the Minerva's main cannon he disabled Shinn's Sensors and fled into the water after allowing the sword to pierce Freedom in a noncritical location.Quote:
Originally posted by: Jurojin
When Shinn struck Kira's shield, he first hit with the tip- because of the extreme speed he was flying, it created an incredible amount of force at ONE point, the point of contact. Shinn basically turned himself into a Gundam sized armor piercing round.
Also note Shinn definatly did some damage and Kira was having difficulty ignoring him however Shinn never really had the advantage in this fight. Kira cutting off the head and arm of the chest flyer was always with the intention if disabling Shinn's sensors so the AA could escape into the ocean. In the end he took the sword into his suit to get a sure fire hit on the head of Impulse making it unable to dodge or swing the sword to make a more critical hit on Freedom.
Wow, I really like this idea. And its makes sense, too. I dont think Kira intended to take quite that hard a hit (he looked a bit panicked) I agree his priority was taking out Impulses main camera... and we see absolutely nothing to show that Freedom didn't just let it self sink down into the ocean, where the AA would now be free to recover what was left. I doubt we are going to have to worry about Kira very long this time around, hopefully the next episode will show him being recovered.
All in all though, I like what you are implying. AA and Freedom "faking their deaths" so they can get back safely to Orb.
AA fake their death too fake lolz...
while escaping AA did not even fire a single shot to minerva -_-
erm you do know that the big explosion was from freedom blowing up right? there is nothing left of freedom, at least not much a few scraps here and there maybe, not more. i still think kira survived, the guy is immortal, i mean he managed to survive when asuran self ddestructed in kiras face(there was a cut in strikes armor right where the cockpit is.)
Please rewatch the episode the AA was firing only to miss the Minerva as it was specifically avoiding giving zaft anything to use for PR purposes saying that the AA is a threat as atleast some people likely still see it in a good light after the last war.Quote:
Originally posted by: qilinkiddo
AA fake their death too fake lolz...
while escaping AA did not even fire a single shot to minerva -_-
The explosion was NOT Freedom. The reaction was from the positron cannon on Minerva reacting with the water. The initial Puff of smoke is the blast nearing the water and the second ball shape explosion was from it hitting either the ocean floor or the AA. The bits of Freedom were in no way enough to account for the entire mech and had Kira blown up with Freedom causing any sort of Nuclear explosion then there would be absolutely nothing left of Impulse which was ontop of the explosion missing its head leaving a gaping hole in its Phaseshift armor.Quote:
Originally posted by: PSJ
erm you do know that the big explosion was from freedom blowing up right? there is nothing left of freedom, at least not much a few scraps here and there maybe, not more. i still think kira survived, the guy is immortal, i mean he managed to survive when asuran self ddestructed in kiras face(there was a cut in strikes armor right where the cockpit is.)