Gundams

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Originally posted by: SkyReaper
I feel pretty much the same way as Barumonk on this subject, though I dissagree that the beam wings are useless. They might not nessessarily make it faster, but it does give off that wierd visual effect and that's usually enough to throw off most opponents in meele combat., though any ace pilot will not be so easily intimidated. That's the way I see it. And if I'm right about this, it would seem pretty useless unless it's a fight where both pilots are rookies, but in a tactical sense, it could be useful to Shin against a large number of foes as it would help him take out more enemies faster.

Not all weapons need to increase capabilities or power to be effective. [img][/img]

To me, all of those units are pretty much equal except for Legend who gets a severe dissadvantage in areas with gravity. Though I don't know how it'll fair in space. Even though it's definitely a step in the right direction from Providence, but I still think it's too reliant on favorable conditions to be any real good.

I've been over what each machine is capable of and what they can achieve with their weapons and they all balance out rather well. The only thing though, SF only slightly outclasses Destiny due to it's Dragoons, but only by a little since 1, it's a waste and dead weight in the atmosphere while Destiny remains as versatile in any condition and 2, it covers all of it's ranges well and effectively.

Only reason why it's got so much trouble beating other main units is usually because of the pilots he's u against and their state of mind.

I also want to take this moment to remind everyone that Kira has one fatal flaw. He's too kind. I'm sure he could have dealt with Shin just fine in any of the times he fought against him if he didn't hold back. there were many ocasions where this was shown in the way he fighs, even in his apearences with the SF.

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good post. i agree with everything except for legend. the one and only advantage legend has is it can use its draggons in gravity while sf cannot (they can pivot but not detach. atleast they can shoot). that can be a huge advantage sometimes.

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Originally posted by: drunkenmaster

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Originally posted by: SkyReaper
I feel pretty much the same way as Barumonk on this subject, though I dissagree that the beam wings are useless. They might not nessessarily make it faster, but it does give off that wierd visual effect and that's usually enough to throw off most opponents in meele combat., though any ace pilot will not be so easily intimidated. That's the way I see it. And if I'm right about this, it would seem pretty useless unless it's a fight where both pilots are rookies, but in a tactical sense, it could be useful to Shin against a large number of foes as it would help him take out more enemies faster.

Not all weapons need to increase capabilities or power to be effective.

To me, all of those units are pretty much equal except for Legend who gets a severe dissadvantage in areas with gravity. Though I don't know how it'll fair in space. Even though it's definitely a step in the right direction from Providence, but I still think it's too reliant on favorable conditions to be any real good.

I've been over what each machine is capable of and what they can achieve with their weapons and they all balance out rather well. The only thing though, SF only slightly outclasses Destiny due to it's Dragoons, but only by a little since 1, it's a waste and dead weight in the atmosphere while Destiny remains as versatile in any condition and 2, it covers all of it's ranges well and effectively.

Only reason why it's got so much trouble beating other main units is usually because of the pilots he's u against and their state of mind.

I also want to take this moment to remind everyone that Kira has one fatal flaw. He's too kind. I'm sure he could have dealt with Shin just fine in any of the times he fought against him if he didn't hold back. there were many ocasions where this was shown in the way he fighs, even in his apearences with the SF.

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good post. i agree with everything except for legend. the one and only advantage legend has is it can use its draggons in gravity while sf cannot (they can pivot but not detach. atleast they can shoot). that can be a huge advantage sometimes.

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SF can pivot his dragoon system also you know. But like Legend, it can't detach.

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Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
ok first of all how is justice out of proportion... proportions seem nice to me and flightpack isnt stupid it is very usefull and makes him uber fast... and justice as done alot more to scale of amount of time aired than freedom. on athurns first launch when he was half dead and bleeding he managed to pzoned shin's arm in like 1 second. what did freedom do? oh wait it didnt damage shin. saying infinte justice is stupid is just retarded. its just as good as fredom if not better. freedom did not damage desinty, he hit destiy but did NOT damage him. freedom with a healthy piolt manages to have a close fight with destiny. justice with a almost dead piolt gravely disables destiny in a single strike i wonder which one is better(note im using ur same flawed logic)?. by saying legend is nothing special and its just another prvidence, it was MEANT that way... so by ur interpretation ill just say sfreedom is nothing speecial, its just like the old one (sf is special, im just using ur own flawed logic again. if a suit is meant to be like an old one, then it should be similar to it...)... also, u cant image ij taking out alota suits. shin takes out a crapload of stuff with 1 sword... ij has like 6 times as much.. ij can slice those ppl up even faster than destiny.

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First off Infinate Justice is out of proportion because in every image I have seen of it the flight pack simply makes the suit look dumpy I find that visually at the very least it seems far to large. Second Justice so far has really done next to nothing once again Shin was having some emotional trama and as a result Athrun using his seed mode defeated Shinn's berserk seed and removed destiny's hand. We really don't see the extend of damage just that he made a slashmark acrost the wrist of the mobile suit. On the same note Kira virtually disarmed Destiny taking out all its short range weapons that were a problem for his beam shields except possibly the hands and almost completely depleating Shinn's power. Kira Frankly could have gone for the kill but instead took the chance he was given with Destiny's retreat to clean up the battlefield and take out as many suits as possible.

Given that doesn't really matter this is not a episode discussion and my comments are not based on the tech specs of the suits but rather what they have been shown doing in the show. Note that reguardless of pilot what the suit does is based on the suits capabilites otherwise the pilot could never do a given move in a suit. This makes the most accurate way to determine a suits capabilities for you to take what the suit has done with the best pilot we have seen use it. This goes for a Gouf as well which has been shown as blantant cannon fodder following Heines death while when used by Heine himself they made it seem much more badass.

Please note I do think IJ has promise and I will like it a lot more after seeing it in action but so far its been shown as very plain as Athrun used next to none of its weapons in episode 43. I understand it has tons of beam weapons but until they are really shown in action its very hard to gauge the value of them.

as for PSJ why don't you stop bitching and state your own opinion as you obviously have no idea about mine at the very least. You don't have to be a fanboy to think a certain suit visually looks better then another one. Simply put some gundams look horrible .

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Originally posted by: DDBen

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Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
ok first of all how is justice out of proportion... proportions seem nice to me and flightpack isnt stupid it is very usefull and makes him uber fast... and justice as done alot more to scale of amount of time aired than freedom. on athurns first launch when he was half dead and bleeding he managed to pzoned shin's arm in like 1 second. what did freedom do? oh wait it didnt damage shin. saying infinte justice is stupid is just retarded. its just as good as fredom if not better. freedom did not damage desinty, he hit destiy but did NOT damage him. freedom with a healthy piolt manages to have a close fight with destiny. justice with a almost dead piolt gravely disables destiny in a single strike i wonder which one is better(note im using ur same flawed logic)?. by saying legend is nothing special and its just another prvidence, it was MEANT that way... so by ur interpretation ill just say sfreedom is nothing speecial, its just like the old one (sf is special, im just using ur own flawed logic again. if a suit is meant to be like an old one, then it should be similar to it...)... also, u cant image ij taking out alota suits. shin takes out a crapload of stuff with 1 sword... ij has like 6 times as much.. ij can slice those ppl up even faster than destiny.

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First off Infinate Justice is out of proportion because in every image I have seen of it the flight pack simply makes the suit look dumpy I find that visually at the very least it seems far to large. Second Justice so far has really done next to nothing once again Shin was having some emotional trama and as a result Athrun using his seed mode defeated Shinn's berserk seed and removed destiny's hand. We really don't see the extend of damage just that he made a slashmark acrost the wrist of the mobile suit. On the same note Kira virtually disarmed Destiny taking out all its short range weapons that were a problem for his beam shields except possibly the hands and almost completely depleating Shinn's power. Kira Frankly could have gone for the kill but instead took the chance he was given with Destiny's retreat to clean up the battlefield and take out as many suits as possible.

Given that doesn't really matter this is not a episode discussion and my comments are not based on the tech specs of the suits but rather what they have been shown doing in the show. Note that reguardless of pilot what the suit does is based on the suits capabilites otherwise the pilot could never do a given move in a suit. This makes the most accurate way to determine a suits capabilities for you to take what the suit has done with the best pilot we have seen use it. This goes for a Gouf as well which has been shown as blantant cannon fodder following Heines death while when used by Heine himself they made it seem much more badass.

Please note I do think IJ has promise and I will like it a lot more after seeing it in action but so far its been shown as very plain as Athrun used next to none of its weapons in episode 43. I understand it has tons of beam weapons but until they are really shown in action its very hard to gauge the value of them.

as for PSJ why don't you stop bitching and state your own opinion as you obviously have no idea about mine at the very least. You don't have to be a fanboy to think a certain suit visually looks better then another one. Simply put some gundams look horrible .

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destiny friggin lost its arm and sword and both boomerangs to athurn. u say there was a mark on his hand and we dont know the damage.... the arm fell off watch the episode again or maybe clean ur glasses..... athurn deflected both boomerangs and choped the arm which held the sword causing the arm to explode and the sword to fall off.... thats much better than what kira did. kira got rid of both boomerangs only cuz shin didnt even throw them at him, and he got rid of the sword, thats all. athurn got rid of this AND an additonal arm. read the previous posts in the other fourms about the athurn issue. he was badly hurt himself. the fact that he disarrmed destiny to a greater extent with less weapons and him bleeding like crazy just shows how skilled he is. he doesnt even NEED to use his other stuff. shin was not in emotional trauma when he went into seed mode. and even if he was kira was fighting shin with the same type of trauma. read phase 43 discussion please. there was a huge argument on this alrdy. u are a freedom fanboy. u see those lasers and u just assume. u also failed to answer my faulty log arguments, unqieness about gundam arguments, and how ij can kill multiple suits. im a fucking varsity debator for northview highschool and if u want to answer my stuff answer it completely. u need to note athurns condition he was probably fighting at like 30 percent capacity and he did more than kira with less weapons used. i think kira is clearly outclassed. u said kira coulda killed shin, so could have athurn. athurn specifically hit the arm with the sword to disarm shin not kill him. he could have slashed the cockpit. shin didnt even know he was hit until AFTER his arm exploded and burst into flames. also u say its ahrd to gauge value of the beam weapons? we alrdy know the power of a grapple from the first gundam seed. beamswords are good..... we saw the beam wings from gaia which were effective not to mention if u got extra beamswords its just plain good.
PSJ is right, dont argue with him, thats all he needs to say. ur logic is faulty just read at ur posts. if u disagree, i will go into detail tommrow. and some gundams do look horrible. those are like viking gundam and mermaid gundam. those re retarded. ur the only one on this fourm that things justice looks retarded. sum ppl might say it looks not as good as freedom, but never retarded. i have nothing against freedom. i have something against ppl that argue when they are obviously wrong. especially when u base looks above everything, since that was ur first statement...

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Originally posted by: Deblas
SF can pivot his dragoon system also you know. But like Legend, it can't detach.

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show me evidence of this because i haven't seen this happen, and this is on a gravity area we're talking about, not space

I think SF can shoot with his dragoon system cause it doesnt need to detach to shoot...but I dunt think its physically possible to move them to the front like legend because the arms are in the way so its probably useless to use them if u can only shoot the sides

Don't dis the machines just cause the pilots suck. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

Athrun was having a bad day and still managed to cut off an arm from Destiny. Even if Shin's machine was sevearly weakened, that counts as something to me since it was probably too teedious for Athrun to use his machine at it's fullest. Reminder that after the fight, he's bleeding all over even though his suit's un-dammaged? You try and fight with opened wounds and tell me how you fair. ^_^;

Oh! Forgot to mention the fact that it was also Athrun's first run in that machine. All I've seen it do so far was use the weapons he was accustomed to from Justice. Gee... I wonder why? Might have to do with the fact he jumped in the machine and took off before anyone could explain it to him. Barely even got authorisation to take off too! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

In my opinion, a fight involving mechas is pretty much 50/50. 50% being the machine's performance and the other 50% being the pilot.
Kira's the first pilot since Amuro that fully developed his skills, but unfortunatelly, because he goes to all the trouble in the world not to kill anyone ( haven't seen him do one fatal blow other then on Destroy) this pretty much reduces his all out eficiency considerably... Gota admire his resolve though.

As for your argument on Gouf, again it falls short as the yellow one's demise is due entirely to pilot error.

He let himself completely open while trying to get at Freedom, completely forgetting about Gaya (Which was pretty much being pwned by the Gouf alone), which he was just engaged with, leaving her an opening that was just too good to miss out on.

Sorry, but Goufs rock. We've seen plenty of what Zakus can do and Goufs are improved models. They've done plenty to prove that. Also, if your thinking of throwing in the argument about how Athrun got beat using the gouf, remember that even though it's good, it's no match for not just one, but (count-em) TWO latest generation gundams. Not to mention that it wasn't in the most advantageous position to fight them to begin with. You know, with the back showing since it was in a retreat and all... I find it fought admirably well even though it was taken down. Lasted longer then I expected.

To finish off my mega counter argument post, I can't remember in which topic it was said, but I remember reading about how Astrays suck just because they weren't shown doing anything significant. Well, when you've got the choice of showing off the exploits of a unit that can transform in the coolest way possible and those achieved by simple land based units while having only a few seconds per episode to do so... Which would you show? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

I'm pretty sure that in a real war they would acomplish plenty, even if they aren't as powerful as most other units.

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Originally posted by: drunkenmaster

destiny friggin lost its arm and sword and both boomerangs to athurn. u say there was a mark on his hand and we dont know the damage.... the arm fell off watch the episode again or maybe clean ur glasses..... athurn deflected both boomerangs and choped the arm which held the sword causing the arm to explode and the sword to fall off.... thats much better than what kira did. kira got rid of both boomerangs only cuz shin didnt even throw them at him, and he got rid of the sword, thats all. athurn got rid of this AND an additonal arm. read the previous posts in the other fourms about the athurn issue. he was badly hurt himself. the fact that he disarrmed destiny to a greater extent with less weapons and him bleeding like crazy just shows how skilled he is. he doesnt even NEED to use his other stuff. shin was not in emotional trauma when he went into seed mode. and even if he was kira was fighting shin with the same type of trauma. read phase 43 discussion please. there was a huge argument on this alrdy. u are a freedom fanboy. u see those lasers and u just assume. u also failed to answer my faulty log arguments, unqieness about gundam arguments, and how ij can kill multiple suits. im a fucking varsity debator for northview highschool and if u want to answer my stuff answer it completely. u need to note athurns condition he was probably fighting at like 30 percent capacity and he did more than kira with less weapons used. i think kira is clearly outclassed. u said kira coulda killed shin, so could have athurn. athurn specifically hit the arm with the sword to disarm shin not kill him. he could have slashed the cockpit. shin didnt even know he was hit until AFTER his arm exploded and burst into flames. also u say its ahrd to gauge value of the beam weapons? we alrdy know the power of a grapple from the first gundam seed. beamswords are good..... we saw the beam wings from gaia which were effective not to mention if u got extra beamswords its just plain good.
PSJ is right, dont argue with him, thats all he needs to say. ur logic is faulty just read at ur posts. if u disagree, i will go into detail tommrow. and some gundams do look horrible. those are like viking gundam and mermaid gundam. those re retarded. ur the only one on this fourm that things justice looks retarded. sum ppl might say it looks not as good as freedom, but never retarded. i have nothing against freedom. i have something against ppl that argue when they are obviously wrong. especially when u base looks above everything, since that was ur first statement...

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Ok I will waste a moment of my time on your post again. Also SEPERATE YOUR THOUGHTS. Your posts are basically nothing more then ranting blobs.

First off in the who did more damage to Destiny department. There is absolutely no arguement from me that Athrun did more PERMINANT damage to Destiny. Also I never stated anything against the fact he indeed removed destiny's arm. Please note as far as emotional state goes however. Kira was nothing more then a enemy to Shinn that is all he ever saw him as and the fact that he returned to the battlefield was more of a annoyance. Also note Shinn specifically states when Kira blasts him with the Railguns that had those been beam sabers Shinn would have been dead at that point.

That aside Athrun was fighting Shinn at 100% that is why his wounds opened and why as soon as Shinn retreated due to having Destiny's arm cut off as well as losing several of his weapons he choose to retreat. Had Shinn continued to fight while Legend had SF occupied Shinn would have had a chance to Kill Athran as he was simply losing to much blood to continue fighting for to much longer.

I don't see either Kira or Justice getting a win over Destiny during this battle Kira had a advantage and Destiny retreated while with Athrun and Shinn it was essentially a draw with both of them unable to continue the battle.

Now onto the Providence VS Legend matter. As far as I can tell the ONLY differnce between the suits is the beam shields on legend. Which is only funny as Legends power source is also inferior to tthat of providence so it having more weapons is fairly odd. That being said Strike Freedom has Dragoons, a double cannon that is made from combining its rifels, beam shield and a chest cannon. That is a major upgrade to a suit that already vastly surpasses all nonnuclear suits in the series. This isn't simply a minor tweak to suit but instead a more or less doubling of the firepower and defensive power of the suit.

Now as for being the only one who thinks that justice looks well boring and out of proportion. I might be the only one who has used those exact words but I do know some others such as Terra have made some comments against Justice itself.

All of that being said I do not have to conform to anyones opinions the fact you are so set with your head up your arse that only your opinion and those who agree with it have any right to be correct about anything is mearly a testament to your ignorance.

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Originally posted by: AtHRunOwNZaLL

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Originally posted by: Deblas
SF can pivot his dragoon system also you know. But like Legend, it can't detach.

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show me evidence of this because i haven't seen this happen, and this is on a gravity area we're talking about, not space

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As far as I know freedom does not have this ability as it certainly has not been demonstraighted. That being said it is possible the dragoons can still fire while attached to the wings there has simply been no reason for Kira to bother doing so as of yet.

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Originally posted by: DDBen


as for PSJ why don't you stop bitching and state your own opinion as you obviously have no idea about mine at the very least. You don't have to be a fanboy to think a certain suit visually looks better then another one. Simply put some gundams look horrible .

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I haven't done a single post of bitching just stating my opinion like you wanted me to.

You know your posts doesn't make any sense. Yuo can be completly destroyed yet keep going with the same flawed points. Just give up your Mile long rants about why you think like you do or maybe try to make it half as long.

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Originally posted by: PSJ
I haven't done a single post of bitching just stating my opinion like you wanted me to.

You know your posts doesn't make any sense. Yuo can be completly destroyed yet keep going with the same flawed points. Just give up your Mile long rants about why you think like you do or maybe try to make it half as long.

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Making a post to do nothing other then call me a Strike Freedom fanboy or anyone a fanboy for that matter is absolutely pointless bitching. Just the same as making this post to state that mine doesn't make any sense because you didn't bother to actually read it.

I know from past experiences that nothing you post makes any sense at all. If you remember we have had a number of discussions before.

Plz don't take anything I say badly... I just get a little taken in whenever I get into a debate about something... ^_^;

But yeah, you can say it's a confrontation... That's what debates are in the end I guess.

But there's just one thing I'll ask you to stop doing. Talking like this:

"All of that being said I do not have to conform to anyones opinions the fact you are so set with your head up your arse that only your opinion and those who agree with it have any right to be correct about anything is mearly a testament to your ignorance."

There are several contradictions in that sentence that pretty much say that you should stop talking as well. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
You entered a debate. Meaning that you couldn't expect to get into this without a confrontation. You say that we're fools for persisting, but if that's true, you aren't any better since you persist by continuing to post here and the best part, saying that we are ignorant because we can't agree with other people's opinions is pretty rediculous since you are no diferent.

Plz, anyone reading this, avoid that type of sentence in the future, I can't help but feel sad for the people who are so desperate to try and be right as to put the blame on the others.

Keep debates clean or I'll fall on you like a tone of bricks. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

Back to the Providence/Legend issue.
I forgot that it's power source would be inferior, but there are more significant changes to it then one may think at first. At first, I sevearly disliked Providence for blatant desing flaws that could be a real pain if it were really forced to go in meele combat. For one, it's legs were huge! They still are, but not as much as before I think. It's core was blocky and a bit disproportioned, taking off on it's agility to some extent and most importantly, his shield sucked. It was small and although it's beam saber was conected to it, I don't see that as an advantage for various reasons. If anything, having your only sword fixated to your shield is nothing but trouble in my oppinion as it takes away the possibility to parry and counter attack for one. I could go on simply about the shield, but that would be long and tedious, specially since I've got a friend beside me at the moment and is being bored like hell... I'll write more later if you don't mind. ^_^;

To throw in on this argument: I almost never agree with DDBen. And this argument is no exception. Your last couple posts were almost impossible to read DDBen and that truly weakens your argument into a mere rambling.

SF is a very powerful suit. Destiny is a very powerful suit. The new Justice is a very powerful suit.

All three pilots have their perks and negatives, with the only exception being Kira's edge as "the Ultimate Coordinator". Sometimes Shinn's anger helps him, but it did not against Athrun in episode 43. Sometimes Kira's unwillingness to kill hurts him, like when Freedom was taken down. Sometimes Athrun's indecision hurts him or puts him in a bad position. I believe its more about the pilots than the MS, and for all of Seed Kira has been pegged as the epitome, the #1 ace, the best. That's why he'll always win, no other reason than for convienence of the plotline and to maybe make a third series out of Seed. (and to sell more model kits)

But in comparing the Gundams we can't say which is better based on the few bits and pieces of combat we've seen so far. Destiny seems the fastest. SF has that insufferable "ICanShootAMillionGruntSuitsAtTheSameTime!" ability and Justice's abundance of Sabres makes it wicked in melee. Contrary to popular belief, Gundam is NOT about dueling between pilots, but about fighting and winning a war. Different Gundams will be better than others at different times, depending on the situation in battle.

Oh, and to give a general answer to this whole topic. Gundams = Hype YES! SO much hype! Do the Gundams live up to it? Well they certainly look pretty and have some nifty features in Seed & Destiny, but I'll say I don't really like the overpowering nature that they've come to possess. In the original Mobile Suit Gundam the Gundam kicked ass, but it struggled mightilly against four or more grunt enemies. Now we have Gundams that can take down retardedly big Mobile Armors, shoot down over two dozen units in the blink of an eye, have Phase Shift armor that renders bullets and explosives almost useless, and Beam Shields that can deflect OR ABSORB gigantic, dead-on beams. The only thing that still seems to work are sabres and melee weapons.

Am I the only one who has a problem with this?

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Originally posted by: masamuneehs
To throw in on this argument: I almost never agree with DDBen. And this argument is no exception. Your last couple posts were almost impossible to read DDBen and that truly weakens your argument into a mere rambling.

SF is a very powerful suit. Destiny is a very powerful suit. The new Justice is a very powerful suit.

All three pilots have their perks and negatives, with the only exception being Kira's edge as "the Ultimate Coordinator". Sometimes Shinn's anger helps him, but it did not against Athrun in episode 43. Sometimes Kira's unwillingness to kill hurts him, like when Freedom was taken down. Sometimes Athrun's indecision hurts him or puts him in a bad position. I believe its more about the pilots than the MS, and for all of Seed Kira has been pegged as the epitome, the #1 ace, the best. That's why he'll always win, no other reason than for convienence of the plotline and to maybe make a third series out of Seed. (and to sell more model kits)

But in comparing the Gundams we can't say which is better based on the few bits and pieces of combat we've seen so far. Destiny seems the fastest. SF has that insufferable "ICanShootAMillionGruntSuitsAtTheSameTime!" ability and Justice's abundance of Sabres makes it wicked in melee. Contrary to popular belief, Gundam is NOT about dueling between pilots, but about fighting and winning a war. Different Gundams will be better than others at different times, depending on the situation in battle.

Oh, and to give a general answer to this whole topic. Gundams = Hype YES! SO much hype! Do the Gundams live up to it? Well they certainly look pretty and have some nifty features in Seed & Destiny, but I'll say I don't really like the overpowering nature that they've come to possess. In the original Mobile Suit Gundam the Gundam kicked ass, but it struggled mightilly against four or more grunt enemies. Now we have Gundams that can take down retardedly big Mobile Armors, shoot down over two dozen units in the blink of an eye, have Phase Shift armor that renders bullets and explosives almost useless, and Beam Shields that can deflect OR ABSORB gigantic, dead-on beams. The only thing that still seems to work are sabres and melee weapons.

Am I the only one who has a problem with this?

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Yeah, I get what you mean about the overpowering of the machines and all, but I still can't get my head arround the orriginal Gundam. It's just that it's been made in the 50 and the plotline shows it too much. Not too muvh of a fan of their stereotypes. ^_^;

Thing is that I feel that in GSD, they've forgot the most important part of what a Mobile Suit is suposed to be. A humanoid mech suporting various weapons and not the other way arround. The way they are built now, it's to wonder where they managed to fit the mechanics and hydraulics to make them move right while holding better then tank grade armor plating.

My favorite series so far have to be 8th MS team and Gundam X, bringing Seed closely behind and GSD right after for their machines that just ooze of weaponry. ^_^;

Yeah, I guess I'm contradicting myself a little by saying that I still like GSD after saying that I'm not too prone on the idea of overpowered machines like that, but they are still fun to watch. ^_^;