Episode 82 Discussion *SPOILERS*

well I think Kakashi thought maybe that jutsu wouldn't work on him because of his sharingon eye. But Itachi completely saw through it. Now on Gais part... he said to look at his feet.... thats not looking into the eyes so probably be able to avoid some of the jutsu. I think because of Gais speed and specialities he would put up a better fight than Kakashi.

One thing I thought was stupid was when Kurenai openingly did her jutsu right in front of Itachi with his sharingon on knowing that he can copy and counter what she does. (I know that was from 81)

Oh and whoever said earlier that Sharingon see into the future (to lazy to see who it was) it cant.... and as long as they dont look into the eyes of the person with sharingon they can avoid some of the jutsu like Zabuza said when fighting Kakashi. Keeping distance and no eye contact.

I wanted to see Gai fight Itachi so badly just to see what he could do. They never really show Gai go all out and fight and I loved watching Lee fight and I know Gai is way better than him.. just has to be... I want a good fight with Gai!!!! I would also like to see Anko get into a freaking cool ass Fight!!

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Originally posted by: Hokage-IV

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
yeah that is true.....not only is itachi's jutsus uber fast....but im sure there's no amount of physical speed thats greater than what he can see with the sharingan

chambers: you dont seem to grasp the true difference in ranks in the naruto world......
if a jounin can kill like 10 chuunins like it was nothing, and a high level jounin can kill 10 anbus like it was nothing, and a chuunin can make most genins wet their pants, then clearly a sanin or a kage would be something insane

paper rock scissors do work, seeing as that naruto lost to lee, gaara lost to naruto, and lee lost to gaara
but only among characters within their respective ranks.....otherwise its a slaughter

V RESPONSE TO BELOW: i agree with you, except you dont seem to catch what we are referring to with the "paper rock scissors" concept......we arent saying that winning in a battle is like winning in a game of "paper rock scissors", we're saying that winning in a battle is determined by which of the 3 YOU are and which of the 3 the ENEMY is

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True difference ranks? lol yes i agree there is ranks in naruto world but i dont know about true difference in ranks... and also rock , scissors and paper also applies to naruto world. Beyond that ,referring to the fan base, it is about perception.

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well im glad you agree with me

if you dont understand the true difference in the ranks......watch one of the dozens of episodes where a chuunin got owned by a jounin
in fact you'd have to have missed about half of the entire series to not know what im referring to

I don't understand why Gai can't pwn Itachi if he opens all eight gates. Think about it, it has been said (about Rock Lee, which is much weaker than Gai) that if he opens all 8 gates, he becomes temporarily stronger than hokage. I bet if Gai opens all 8 gates, he could own Itachi. And sacrificing Gai to own Itachi seems like a very good trade-off.

How dare you say such a thing???? Sacrifice Gai?? For any reason? Can you sacrifice the sun? Can you sacrifice the moon? NO! Such is Gai..

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if you dont understand the true difference in the ranks......watch one of the dozens of episodes where a chuunin got owned by a jounin
in fact you'd have to have missed about half of the entire series to not know what im referring to

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Yet Naruto owned whatshisname in ep 1, who was chuunin. Naruto wasn't even at genin rank at that time.

And in ep 4 or 5, Sasuke outclassed 2 chuunin with ease. I don't think the ranks are that much an indication of fighting ability.

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Originally posted by: Outtawack311
I am curious about something. Gai said there was another way to fight against sharingan users but he wasnt going to go into it now. I wonder if there is a type of jutsu or ability you can gain that helps defend you against sharingan.
Also, Kakashi wasnt in the jutsu for 70+ hours Itachi let him out after 1 second of real time to show how much can be done in that little of time. He counts down one second in the genjutsu then lets him go.

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uh...no you misunderstood the episode, Kakashi was tortured for 72 hours, but in real time it was only a moment. i dont think gai could beat itachi even with all gates open, since oro was as strong as hokage, and itachi is stronger than oro, then add the sharingan, and gai is no match for itachi either.

It's not known if Gai can open up all the gates.Some of you still don't understand the ranking.Mizuki was a nobody,those two chuunins (Demon brothers right?) were killed by Kakashi.

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Originally posted by: DrunkPotHead
I don't understand why Gai can't pwn Itachi if he opens all eight gates. Think about it, it has been said (about Rock Lee, which is much weaker than Gai) that if he opens all 8 gates, he becomes temporarily stronger than hokage. I bet if Gai opens all 8 gates, he could own Itachi. And sacrificing Gai to own Itachi seems like a very good trade-off.

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Even if gai could open all 8 gates, he still probably wouldn't be able to kill Itachi. Since it was said that whomever opens all 8 gates has more power than a hokage then dies, it's not said how long he could last before he dies.

I mean.. Lee opened 5 gates and kicked gaara's ass for about 40 seconds then essentially passed out. The same would probably happen with gai, only he'd just die.

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Originally posted by: Javelin

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if you dont understand the true difference in the ranks......watch one of the dozens of episodes where a chuunin got owned by a jounin
in fact you'd have to have missed about half of the entire series to not know what im referring to

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Yet Naruto owned whatshisname in ep 1, who was chuunin. Naruto wasn't even at genin rank at that time.

And in ep 4 or 5, Sasuke outclassed 2 chuunin with ease. I don't think the ranks are that much an indication of fighting ability.

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thats why i said MOST genins......
there seems to be a recurring theme in the series that if you possess the powers of one of the demon creatures, then you can sorta stand a chance against people a rank above you

and outclassing is different than beating.......
shikamaru outclassed those chuunin who were chasing after them when they left the main matches, but that doesnt mean he could beat them on his own though

Gai opening all 8 gates and just dying would be funny, but completely pointless. The person who opens all the gates is supposed to become nearly invincible for the short while that they're alive. People called Gaara's victory over Lee by using the gourd lame, doing a sacrifice and not killing your opponent would be even worse. Gai won't defeat Itachi though, because that has been Sasuke's job all along.

I just noticed that Kisame is actually in the opening. when the opening starts you see him as his shadow lift up his sword and swing at us and the the name Naruto is written with his sword in the background, gj me for seeing it ^^

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Originally posted by: z0diac
I just noticed that Kisame is actually in the opening. when the opening starts you see him as his shadow lift up his sword and swing at us and the the name Naruto is written with his sword in the background, gj me for seeing it ^^

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hmm... i've noticed that too, week ago [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

I suppose we are not the only ones... furthermore... I'm SURE we are not the only ones...

I am curious if anyone has notice how Itachi is with Kakashi. When Kisame was going to fight him he said if he hurt him he wouldn't be forgiven. Then when he did the torture thing on him Kakashi said himself he could of killed him easily but didn't. Not until Kakashi mentioned the Clan and Naruto did he say kill them all. I wonder if he has a bit of a soft spot for Kakashi.

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Originally posted by: hoob
How dare you say such a thing???? Sacrifice Gai?? For any reason? Can you sacrifice the sun? Can you sacrifice the moon? NO! Such is Gai..

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LOL... BRILLIANT!

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Originally posted by: LostAngel
I am curious if anyone has notice how Itachi is with Kakashi. When Kisame was going to fight him he said if he hurt him he wouldn't be forgiven. Then when he did the torture thing on him Kakashi said himself he could of killed him easily but didn't. Not until Kakashi mentioned the Clan and Naruto did he say kill them all. I wonder if he has a bit of a soft spot for Kakashi.

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nope......that was most likely S-O messing things up again

itachi didnt want kisame to bother fighting cause KISAME would end up getting hurt

anyone notice that sasuke for some reason had his sharingan on when he was standing in front of that little shrine thingy?
i know it makes for a good transition between him and his brother, but it still seems kinda out of place for him to be using it while he's just standing there in his basement

i believe it is meant to show that much like naruto kyubi - sasuke's sharingan is drawn out by emotion...also it could be respect for the uchiha grave - showing the bloodline limit to his ancestors to show he is worthy and such

he is trying to excel with teh sharingan - it seems as if using it and being able to activate it (in sasuke's caase ) at will always helps

i wish he would freaking get 3 comma's already lol

For what it's worth, I agree with chambers and hokagi IV, that it's not simply a matter of "power levels". While a persons power is important, their fighting style can more than make up for the difference if one is weaker. The "Rock, Paper Scissors" metaphore fits perfectly.

And while you might say "Oh that only applies to people on the same level" you can't even say that when you figure that there are people who are like Gaara that are Genin "level" that could easily defeat most Chuunin.

The point is, you never know who is capable of defeating who, for all we know, Itachi could be really weak against Taijitsu. Granted, its unlikely, but until the situation actually comes up, we won't have any way of being sure.

And like someone mentions, Gai could always do something like open up all 8 Gates and defeat Itachi that way.


As far as the episode goes, its great. I was surprised to find out that Itachi's organization is after the nine-tails. Makes me wonder if maybe there is another pair of that group thats going to go after Gaara.

of course we dont know thaty Gai CAN open all 8 gates, and neither does he. if he did hed be dead!

it's often said that a fighter can look at a man's feet and tell what he is going to do with his hands. Thus in Kendo the big pants were created to hide the movement of one's feet because it was very much indicative of the movement of his hands.

i supposes thats all right IRL but you cant look at someones feet and tell what justu they are going to do, thats the only real thing i think Itachi has on Gai, the speed of Itachi's techniques would be a big probelm for Gai as he wouldnt know untill the very last instant what was going to happen.

Goooo Kisame! Zabuza wasn't killed by kakashi. Also I predict this episode has the hot chick as a member of that organization trying to capture nartuo. No doubt why else would some extremely hot chick fall for Jir. Hes an old pervert!

Lets face it shes gotta be some kind of trap.

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Originally posted by: DarthEnder
For what it's worth, I agree with chambers and hokagi IV, that it's not simply a matter of "power levels". While a persons power is important, their fighting style can more than make up for the difference if one is weaker. The "Rock, Paper Scissors" metaphore fits perfectly.

And while you might say "Oh that only applies to people on the same level" you can't even say that when you figure that there are people who are like Gaara that are Genin "level" that could easily defeat most Chuunin.

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you guys keep bringing naruto and gaara up, but as i mentioned before....

"there seems to be a recurring theme in the series that if you possess the powers of one of the demon creatures, then you can sorta stand a chance against people a rank above you"

but can you think of anyone besides naruto and gaara that has actually defeated higher ranked ninjas by themselves?

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure

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Originally posted by: DarthEnder
For what it's worth, I agree with chambers and hokagi IV, that it's not simply a matter of "power levels". While a persons power is important, their fighting style can more than make up for the difference if one is weaker. The "Rock, Paper Scissors" metaphore fits perfectly.

And while you might say "Oh that only applies to people on the same level" you can't even say that when you figure that there are people who are like Gaara that are Genin "level" that could easily defeat most Chuunin.

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you guys keep bringing naruto and gaara up, but as i mentioned before....

"there seems to be a recurring theme in the series that if you possess the powers of one of the demon creatures, then you can sorta stand a chance against people a rank above you"

but can you think of anyone besides naruto and gaara that has actually defeated higher ranked ninjas by themselves?

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was that suppose to be a tough question? ....

Neji beating one of sound four.. Chouji beating one of the sound four...

or even kabuto beating the ANBU SQUAD!
not to mention the fact that there isnt that many fights with weaker rank vs stronger rank in the series anyway. i think if you look at it % wise you will see that the weaker rank win!

i dont think the sound ninjas were higher either.

you're giving the anbu squad too much credit.....they tend to consist mostly of chuunin and lower level jounins

since kabuto is at the same level as kakashi, it was expected that he could defeat those anbu guys

and weaker vs stronger fights do occur a decent # of times in the series, but usually it requires a strength in numbers for the weaker guys just to avoid being completely slaughtered by the stronger guys, or their jounin sensei to come in and save the day

getting back to gai...

Gai talked about looking at Itachi's feet while fighting him. For those not too familiar in the world of boxing, this is a principal used by boxers too not only determine opponent movement, but also strength. If a fighter looks weak in the knees, then the boxer can throw the big punch. I know, its not real, please bare with me here.

And with Gai opening 8 gates to own Itachi, there's always that possibility that Itachi can narrowly escape, basically allowing Gai to kill himself. There's a reason the technique is so rarely used.

actually AF i dont care wahat you say in terms of REAL rank kabuto is NOT the same as kakashi. so its still stands.

in terms of fighting ability, kabuto is about the same as kakashi. orochimaru freaking said so. but obviously the official ranks are different.

yes, and seing as tho its official ranks we are tlkaing about then i guess iam right?
(you dont have to answer that)

unnofficial ranking vs official ranking is nothing more than bragging rights

kabuto purposely stayed as a genin so he could spy for orochimaru in the exams
do you think that by quitting the exams on purpose and preventing himself from becoming chuunin actually makes him weaker than those who DID become chuunin?

guys, there's no way in hell Gai could ever touch Itachi. the guy killed the entire uchiha clan at the age of 13. also, did you see how fast he was using his techniques against kakashi? and i'm sure he was just toying with him. the guy is unstoppable. plus, even if Gai just looked at his feet, he would not be able to see Itachi's hand seals, if that's even possible anyways. Gai would get beaten faster than Kakashi was.

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Originally posted by: Hokage-IV
Neji beating one of sound four.. Chouji beating one of the sound four...

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dude wtf is wrong with you. that never happened...

wow theres so many Gai fanboys! i didnt even know, i always thought he was goofy like lee.

my bad... my apology

way to go lololol

Kabuto is ranked as Genin, but his skill is that of a Jounin. Him, Kakashi, and Gai are all at about the same level. Gai is being overestimated by a lot of people, he probably wouldn't do that much better than Kakashi, if he faced Itachi. Hokage IV, try editing your post instead of just apologizing.

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Originally posted by: gaaralovessand
getting back to gai...

Gai talked about looking at Itachi's feet while fighting him. For those not too familiar in the world of boxing, this is a principal used by boxers too not only determine opponent movement, but also strength. If a fighter looks weak in the knees, then the boxer can throw the big punch. I know, its not real, please bare with me here.

And with Gai opening 8 gates to own Itachi, there's always that possibility that Itachi can narrowly escape, basically allowing Gai to kill himself. There's a reason the technique is so rarely used.

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Also, during the epi, Gai explained that by looking at a person's feet, you can predict their movements without looking at their arms. Since Gai is a taijutsu specialist (i think, like lee) i think he can tell it better than other ninjas

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guys, there's no way in hell Gai could ever touch Itachi. the guy killed the entire uchiha clan at the age of 13. also, did you see how fast he was using his techniques against kakashi? and i'm sure he was just toying with him. the guy is unstoppable. plus, even if Gai just looked at his feet, he would not be able to see Itachi's hand seals, if that's even possible anyways. Gai would get beaten faster than Kakashi was.

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Itachi became ANBU leader at 13 [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] i still dont know what age he was when he killed his clan.

Anyways, im sure Gai represents some threat to itachi, did he not warn Kisame not to underestimate him?


About Kisame, i have this strange feeling that he'll be majorly PWNed by someone later on in Naruto. I dunno why, perhaps its that "I'm so good because i have the most l33t ninja in the world as my partner" feeling you get from him [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img].

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Originally posted by: DeathscytheVII

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Originally posted by: gaaralovessand
getting back to gai...

Gai talked about looking at Itachi's feet while fighting him. For those not too familiar in the world of boxing, this is a principal used by boxers too not only determine opponent movement, but also strength. If a fighter looks weak in the knees, then the boxer can throw the big punch. I know, its not real, please bare with me here.

And with Gai opening 8 gates to own Itachi, there's always that possibility that Itachi can narrowly escape, basically allowing Gai to kill himself. There's a reason the technique is so rarely used.

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Also, during the epi, Gai explained that by looking at a person's feet, you can predict their movements without looking at their arms. Since Gai is a taijutsu specialist (i think, like lee) i think he can tell it better than other ninjas

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guys, there's no way in hell Gai could ever touch Itachi. the guy killed the entire uchiha clan at the age of 13. also, did you see how fast he was using his techniques against kakashi? and i'm sure he was just toying with him. the guy is unstoppable. plus, even if Gai just looked at his feet, he would not be able to see Itachi's hand seals, if that's even possible anyways. Gai would get beaten faster than Kakashi was.

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Itachi became ANBU leader at 13 [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] i still dont know what age he was when he killed his clan.

Anyways, im sure Gai represents some threat to itachi, did he not warn Kisame not to underestimate him?


About Kisame, i have this strange feeling that he'll be majorly PWNed by someone later on in Naruto. I dunno why, perhaps its that "I'm so good because i have the most l33t ninja in the world as my partner" feeling you get from him [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img].

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EDIT: shit, nm. the anime hasn't caught up to that point in manga i was refering from.

i'd assume he was an ANBU captain BEFORE killing his clan though

Well going by Sasukes thinking back of the time Itachi killed off the clan he looked about 8 or 9 to me. I am bad about telling how old kids are in anime years though.

I think Gai could possibly put up a better fight with Itachi. When he mentioned watching his fight that Asuma said only Gai could do that or whatever. Kakashi's mistake was thinking that Itachi's jetsu wouldn't work on him because of his Sharingon. As for Kakashi fighting Itachi Face to Face I think Gai would run around like a monkey dodging attacks getting in what he can. Now fighting face to face or running around... I think Gai would last longer.

When Itachi finished using his eyes on Kakashi you could see it wore him out by him breathing heavily and that face. So if Gai where to fight him then he could of definitely could of had a decent fight.

But lets not forget... Sasuke is going to have to kill Itachi.. same as it was destenied for Naruto fighting Gaara. With the comments that Sasuke has power that surpases Itachi.. I personally want to see Sasuke kick his ass. Oh I have a question. Kakashi said that Sharingon can't copy advance blood techinques. But if Sasuke was using sharingon on fighting or just watching Itachi fight would he be able to copy his jutsu since he is of the Uchiha clan? I would think he could.

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Originally posted by: LostAngel
Kakashi's mistake was thinking that Itachi's jetsu wouldn't work on him because of his Sharingon.

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good job pointing that out cuz that question should make us think. if kakashi, the genius, thought that his sharingan would be able to go against itachi's sharingan (which obviously failed horribly), why should we assume that gai's method should be effective against itachi's sharingan?

it's the same method but applied onto totally different scenarios. and besides, kakashi is really out-skilled in almost all ways when compared to itachi.

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Originally posted by: LostAngel
Oh I have a question. Kakashi said that Sharingon can't copy advance blood techinques. But if Sasuke was using sharingon on fighting or just watching Itachi fight would he be able to copy his jutsu since he is of the Uchiha clan? I would think he could.

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i'm assuming that you mean mangekyou sharingan... i'm not sure if he can copy it, but he can learn it obviously. but even if he is able to copy it, i doubt that sasuke's sharingan would even be able to copy it since it's not as nearly developed as itachi's.

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Originally posted by: LostAngel
But if Sasuke was using sharingon on fighting or just watching Itachi fight would he be able to copy his jutsu since he is of the Uchiha clan? I would think he could.

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that was actually brought up in another itachi discussion thread, i believe (actually i think it was kakashi though, not sasuke)

i would assume no....because just as other blood limits cant be copied, this one prolly couldnt either. its a genetic thing, and if his sharingan couldnt perform it before, then i doubt it would be able to perform it just by witnessing it. A baby can't walk just by watching adults walk until its body is trained for it, and im sure a sharingan user cant reach those levels of bloodlimit abilities without training his sharingan to at least acquire those 3 comma things.....

not to mention if that move takes alot of chakra out of itachi, imagine what it'd do to sasuke!

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Originally posted by: Mut@t@

it's the same method but applied onto totally different scenarios. and besides, kakashi is really out-skilled in almost all ways when compared to itachi.

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its not the same method
Kakashi thought his eye was immune to Itachi' Genjutsu.
Gai thinks his fighting style is a way to counter Itachi' obvious advantage.

One is a physical trait, the other is a fighting method. The only simularity between the two is that they are/were both theories. One was proven wrong... the other was not shown.

I think Konoha knows much about the Sharingan, since its been the home of the Sharingan for many years. Them understanding how to fight against it is very plausible. However a surgically implanted eye has no history and Kakashi just came to the wrong conclusion.

Thats my thought at least.




My opinion is he could copy the Mangekyou if his Sharingan was much more advanced, as of yet its only copied some of Lee' Taijutsu. The Mangekyou is just an evolved high level technique, unless its an evolution only found in certain Uchiha members... a bloodline limit of a bloodline if you will. Sakura hasnt brought out her 'bloodline limit of a bloodline limit' scroll yet. hehe

I do have a question... Kakashi can learn/copy Taijutsu, counter/copy Ninjutus, but can he do anything vs a Genjutsu attack that anyone else couldnt do?


-not going to be around to see the answers for a while... taking off to E3 in the morning and gone for a few days.-

excellent analysis on my response. you were correct about nothing. i was talking about applying gai's method to fight kakashi to itachi being illogical.

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
i'd assume he was an ANBU captain BEFORE killing his clan though

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Seems very unlikely that a mass murder would be promoted to ANBU captain.
Otherwise, Oro could have been the fourth and so much conflict would have been avoided.

Im sorry, but the english language doesnt bend to what you mean to say.
When you bring up Kakashi' 'method' to fight Itachi, then Gai's 'method' then say 'its the same Method' that conveys you are comparing Gai and Kakashi' method to eachother, not Gai's method to the different matchups.

What you should have said is: Gai's method vs Kakashi is the same he would use against the much tougher Itachi. Itachi is on a different lvl then Kakashi and therefor is not a good indication of any method that would work.





Why is it illogical? Please educate me. You have yet to provide one piece of evidence that supports your theory.

the sharingan is supposed to be able to cancel/see thru genjutsu.....but im guessing, since itachi = pure ownage, kakashi's sharingan couldn't do it and was over powered.


ps: IM BBAAAAAAAAACCCCKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 111

DID U GUYS MISS ME?? (correct answer = yes we did, followed by hugs)

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Originally posted by: Assassin
the sharingan is supposed to be able to cancel/see thru genjutsu

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ahh ya...
forgot that lesson

thanks! =)

the most logical thing to do would be to conclude that Gai's method WOULD work against itachi also, maybe not the the point where he could beat him but hes certainly the best suited to the task. think about it, if gai can beat out the advantage of kakashis eye, and the main advantage of itachi is that someone has to ACTAULLY LOOK at the eye in order to succumb to that technique, well Gai still counters it by not even looking at his face. so infact Gai's method will be MORE effective when figthing itachi, why you ask? heres why: it is logical to assume that kakashi DOES NOT rely on the sharingan as much as itachi in battle as it tires him out. Itachis focus on the sharingan MUST lead to some weaknes in other areas, no i know there will be some people who will say "you dont get to be the best ninja in the world if you cant defend against physical attacks!", well to be honest thats a valid point, but when you are fighting against someone who specializes in your weakness (and we know its his weakenss becasue its been shown (lee v sasuke, gai v kakashi) to be an effective couter to the technique) it becoms a whole diffrent kettle of fish, not to mention there is NO other person in the village who fight sht esame way as Gai (at least not as good otherwise he would be known to us) we have also never seen a ninja similar to Gai in any other country and the only one who compares is his student, so it snot like Itachi will have huge experince in figthing someone of gais strenght.

so as you can see its PERFECTLY logical, and mut@t@ instead of saying " your wrong about everything, and its not logical....PROVE IT. use reasonable method and examples to PROOVE it. saying well itachi is a lot strong than kakashi is utter BS because Gai counters the very thing that is stronger about him.

the proof is the record held between gai and kakashi. Even though gai counters the very thing that is stronger about kakashi, they still are almost evenly matched

therefore anybody higher than kakashi's level would be too much for gai

I think your right chambers. I think Gai would stand a better chance. Now Itachi is fast as performing techinques... but he will have to be able to keep up with guy in complete movement. If he can't see Gai running around in speed that I expect to way surpass Lee... it will be hard to follow his movements. Like Sasuke fighting Lee.. he was able to copy his movements but couldn't keep up. Itachi is faster at performing techs Gai is faster in movement I would assume. I would think faster movement would have the advantage.

And if Gai voids all eye contact he stands a better chance than Kakashi.. Itachi said not to underestimate him so he knew that he was good and plus if he took Itachi then... Itachi was all worn out. Breathing heavily and crap for fighting with Kakashi. So more likely he wouldn't of been able to keep up with Gai. And with Asuma as back up since he said Gai was the only one who could fight Itachi he would take on Kisame I would guess. But I don't think Kisame could stand a chance against Gai.

I really wanted to see Gai take Itachi on though I want to see one good fight with Gai one on one with someone powerful. They should of at least let him and Kisame duke it out.

Oh yeah one thing I have learned from Naruto... people in lower ranks can still beat crap out higher ranks.

yes but AF you also have to consider that for perhaps a large part of his life Kakashi didnot have the sharingan so would likely be more focuses (read: better) at other parts of fighting. also from seeing kakashi fight we can see that he doesnt solely rely on the sharingan, whcih form what we have seen of itachi makes him different. the only key thing we need to remeber is that gai takes the sharingan and effectivly nullifies it, now if we look at itachi and say that his strongest wepaon is his sharingan and gai removes that form the equation, we have to think that gai now has the upper hand.

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Originally posted by: chambers
the most logical thing to do would be to conclude that Gai's method WOULD work against itachi also, maybe not the the point where he could beat him but hes certainly the best suited to the task. think about it, if gai can beat out the advantage of kakashis eye, and the main advantage of itachi is that someone has to ACTAULLY LOOK at the eye in order to succumb to that technique, well Gai still counters it by not even looking at his face. so infact Gai's method will be MORE effective when figthing itachi, why you ask? heres why: it is logical to assume that kakashi DOES NOT rely on the sharingan as much as itachi in battle as it tires him out. Itachis focus on the sharingan MUST lead to some weaknes in other areas, no i know there will be some people who will say "you dont get to be the best ninja in the world if you cant defend against physical attacks!", well to be honest thats a valid point, but when you are fighting against someone who specializes in your weakness (and we know its his weakenss becasue its been shown (lee v sasuke, gai v kakashi) to be an effective couter to the technique) it becoms a whole diffrent kettle of fish, not to mention there is NO other person in the village who fight sht esame way as Gai (at least not as good otherwise he would be known to us) we have also never seen a ninja similar to Gai in any other country and the only one who compares is his student, so it snot like Itachi will have huge experince in figthing someone of gais strenght.

so as you can see its PERFECTLY logical, and mut@t@ instead of saying " your wrong about everything, and its not logical....PROVE IT. use reasonable method and examples to PROOVE it. saying well itachi is a lot strong than kakashi is utter BS because Gai counters the very thing that is stronger about him.

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You're right Chambers Gai's method would be the most effective against Itachi, b/c of his training with Kakashi(and the sharingan) but since Itachi is an "expert ninja" he would of fought against at least one person like that before, and he would of eventually seen through Gai's strategy, now you cant factor out the fact that Itachi was weakened from using the Mangekyou Sharingan on Kakashi(his eyes were twitching(means he was stressed out)) So might of done ok alright, but not that good against Itachi, b/c even though he has the sharingan and it seems like he invincible with them, that doesnt mean he doesnt have some other cards up his sleeve

exactly, even without the sharingan, itachi is still a genius ninja. just like sasuke was top student in his class without even having the sharingan yet.

the funniest thing in 82 is what jiraiya tells naruto in the wery end of the EP

Jiraiya: Okay, Naruto.....

Naruto: Yeah?

Jiraiya: You go back home alone, train, and go to sleep


man that was so funny but in the s-o it is totally different (its in the A\a )

at last a well thought out reply, but i think your wrong, it doesnt mean that he DOES have some trick up his sleeve, i mean look at lee, hard work genius who cant use any techniques other than ones that encahnce his physical status. neji seems the same. shikamaru is clearly physically weak and only specializes on his familys technique and his witts. Gaara is the same, physically weak. the only real exception to this seems to be naruto and the one 'lion comb' technique that sasuke uses. so while iam agreeing that aninja like itachi wont be totally defenceless i doubt he would be able to keep up with gai, i mean itachi aint invincible, thats more than likley why he works with a physical partner.

and while it IS stated many, many times that sasuke is the top rookie i doubt that in a exam style fight situation he would have beaten shika, kiba (the bug guy?) or even i-no. there is nothing special about sasuke he knows one technique the fire one thats it, and it seems to do little damage anyway.

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Originally posted by: chambers
the only key thing we need to remeber is that gai takes the sharingan and effectivly nullifies it, now if we look at itachi and say that his strongest wepaon is his sharingan and gai removes that form the equation, we have to think that gai now has the upper hand.

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no. gai doesn't effectively nullify anything. maybe kakashi's sharingan, but not itachi's. if gai's method totally nullifies kakashi's sharingan then there would be no point of him pointing out that they're eternal rivals. is gai someone who would brag about being better than a certain person if gai can beat them every time? NO. also, we haven't seen the method being used on itachi, only on kakashi's ghetto sharingan. stop bringing up the fact that gai's method works on kakashi's sharingan cuz that's not what we're applying gai's method to. the method only works to a certain extent and we all know that itachi's sharingan is far better than kakashi's.

also, i agree that gai is very fast, possibly faster than kakashi. sasuke made a comment about it when gai first appeared. fine, i believe that. but that's a comment made from a genin. but kurenai said herself that itachi's movements are way too fast for even her (a jounin) to keep up with.

and stop telling me i'm not supporting any of my counter arguments. i've done just as much as you have.

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Originally posted by: LostAngel
I think your right chambers. I think Gai would stand a better chance. Now Itachi is fast as performing techinques... but he will have to be able to keep up with guy in complete movement. If he can't see Gai running around in speed that I expect to way surpass Lee... it will be hard to follow his movements. Like Sasuke fighting Lee.. he was able to copy his movements but couldn't keep up. Itachi is faster at performing techs Gai is faster in movement I would assume. I would think faster movement would have the advantage.

And if Gai voids all eye contact he stands a better chance than Kakashi.. Itachi said not to underestimate him so he knew that he was good and plus if he took Itachi then... Itachi was all worn out. Breathing heavily and crap for fighting with Kakashi. So more likely he wouldn't of been able to keep up with Gai. And with Asuma as back up since he said Gai was the only one who could fight Itachi he would take on Kisame I would guess. But I don't think Kisame could stand a chance against Gai.

I really wanted to see Gai take Itachi on though I want to see one good fight with Gai one on one with someone powerful. They should of at least let him and Kisame duke it out.

Oh yeah one thing I have learned from Naruto... people in lower ranks can still beat crap out higher ranks.

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itachi is very fast a performing techniques, possibly fastest we've seen so far. but you guys do realize that after itachi performs the hand seals both him and the clone have to move around too, right? that's how it is done. it was explained when bunch of narutos jumped out of the lake and attacked kakashi. kakashi quickly did a replacement jutsu and hid in a tree. so far, itachi has proven that he's A LOT faster than we give him credit for. and ranks have nothing to do with someone beating up another.

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Originally posted by: chambers
heres why: it is logical to assume that kakashi DOES NOT rely on the sharingan as much as itachi in battle as it tires him out.

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what? did you not see that kakashi whipped out his sharingan as soon as zabuza appeared? kakashi is a great ninja but his sharingan makes him even deadlier.

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...but when you are fighting against someone who specializes in your weakness (and we know its his weakenss becasue its been shown (lee v sasuke, gai v kakashi) to be an effective couter to the technique) it becoms a whole diffrent kettle of fish, not to mention there is NO other person in the village who fight sht esame way as Gai (at least not as good otherwise he would be known to us) we have also never seen a ninja similar to Gai in any other country and the only one who compares is his student, so it snot like Itachi will have huge experince in figthing someone of gais strenght.

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STOP BRINGING UP OTHER FIGHTS THEY ARE TOTALLY IRRELEVANT TO ITACHI. using lee vs sasuke as an example is RETARDED. a lot of people have tried using this to support their argument but it does not work. if you don't understand that you can't use this to support your response, then you are hopeless cuz that just explains that your analysis skills are below mediocre.

nah my point is that at the moment if there was a fight right then since Itachi was showing how much (after using that torture jutsu I forgot the name of it) it took out of him. I mean that face and the huffying puffing... I think Gai could of had a better chance then Kakashi. On normal terms.. I don't think he would really stand a chance.

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Originally posted by: LostAngel
nah my point is that at the moment if there was a fight right then since Itachi was showing how much (after using that torture jutsu I forgot the name of it) it took out of him. I mean that face and the huffying puffing... I think Gai could of had a better chance then Kakashi. On normal terms.. I don't think he would really stand a chance.

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wait wait wait... so what you're saying was that gai could've had a better chance than kakashi AFTER itachi used mangekyou sharingan? man, wtf? that's not fair at all. how about we turn it around and say that, itachi has 100% chance of beating gai after he opened up 7 gates.

but if that's not what you were saying then nevermind D:

lmfao I am not saying that he will win against Itachi... all I am saying with him worn out... he would have a more of a upperhand then what Kakashi did. If Itachi had used the mangekyou on Gai and was worn out then if Kakashi was going to fight him after than he would have more of the uppper hand then what Gai did. So to me that person would be able to put up a better fight instead of getting their ass kicked right off the bat.

If that makes any sense... sounds better in my head then when I try to explain it.

somehow - somewhere - a forum will exist where people actually WATCH the episode and READ the subs so they can determine what ACTUALLY happens...

now - arguing over a hypothetical situation is absolutely worthless

concenring sasuke's sharingan - the genjutsu that Itachi uses is not one to be copied - it is a bloodline limit end of story - the sharingan ITSELF is a bloodline limit and sasuke will be able to develop that jutsu when he masters the sharingan (whatever the hell that means - nothing in particular seems to show development)

This is definetly my favorite episode so far.

I liked it much better then 81 animation wise and his background is much better then naruto and other kids + no sakura at all this whole episode [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

ITACHI is just so much tougher then the other leaf/sand/sound jounin's, plus looks and sounds a lot better then that noob sasuke,

Hopefully itachi kills a few leaf ninja's and his crappy partner who he really doesn't need just probably makes him do the dirty work so he doesn't have to show off.

Quick question. Just how good is Itachi without Sharingan?

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Originally posted by: IamSpazzy
Quick question. Just how good is Itachi without Sharingan?

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we're probably never gonna see itachi without his sharingan.

how good is itachi without the sharingan?

well considering he's a total bad ass character, i'd say he'd be pretty good......u dont make a villan with that much power be a one shot wonder, if u know what mean.......thats the "real world" explanation

now, as for the "anime world" explanation......he became ANBU captain at 13. U dont get a position like that just cuz u have a bloodline limit. remember anbu's track down missing nin's (well hunter nins do, but they're just a division of anbu anyway) and protect kage's and feudal lords. They have to be elite in every way, shape and form or else the mission mite fail. Also, he killed teh ENTIRE uchiha clan! they were also sharingan users, and im sure there were atleast 10-15 had completely mastered it....and fomr that there had to be 2 or 3 that could own like 3 jounins all at once......and yet none of them stood a chance against itachi, so hes gotta be pretty badass

I havent read a page of manga, but i just think that everyone talks about how Itachi killed the entire uchiha clan at like a really young age, I know hes all powerful and such, but it just seems like their HAD to be some strings attach

Imagine Neji trying to kill all of Hyuuga, it just doesnt seem plausible, even if Neji was 10 times stronger
unless there were strings attached or some wierd circumstance to it

plus the anime always mentions it, so there must be more to it than meets the eye

He could have killed them all in their sleep.

One more quesiton. does anyone know if Obito has a meaning in Japanese? Everyone thinks he's a Uchiha, but is it based on anything besides Kakashi probably got his sharingan from his teammate...the guy with the goggles?

Kakashi's team seens a bit like Naruto's, and the goggles on the other guy just reminds me of Naruto before he got his forehead protector

i don't think people truly understand how strong itachi really is. i truly believe that he is 2nd to last bad guy that we will be introduced to, if not, the final bad guy. i'm pretty sure everyone would agree that orochimaru is an EXTREMELY powerful ninja. but kishimoto made it seem as if itachi is even stronger than orochimaru by making orochimaru fear him. that part alone makes me believe that itachi is too many levels above bad guy before him for the storyline to bring in another, even stronger bad guy. i'm not sure if everyone can fully understand what i mean by that but i'm just trying to get at the fact that if another stronger baddy was introduced, then the story would go on for WAY too long, and i don't think the story has enough depth for that amount of longevity. there is no way for me or anyone else to explain it here in more detail in the anime forum without spoiling every other sentence. even if you were to read an explanation and read the manga up to where it is (ch 214), you probably still won't be able to grasp itachi's overall strength.

i'm probably gonna go put up a detailed explanation on my site later... but be warned, it'll contain many spoilers. however, i think it's going to be a real good reading for those who like to know more about what others think.

I do trust that Itachi is mega-powerful, the only reason i would think that there will be one more stronger than Itachi is that Sasuke MUST be the one to kill or at least defeat Itachi, but that leaves Naruto hanging and obviously since the anime is named Naruto, i would think that Naruto would defeat the ultimate baddy, like the overlord of all death or some crap like that, anyways i think that there is probably one stronger than itachi, unless they choose to make the anime 900 episodes long, and the manga who knows how long, in which case there may be way more villains way stronger than Itachi

I think mut@t@ is rite...itachi is like the ultimate villan so its not likely that we'll see someone even better after him (save for sasuke, who will in the end kill him and be the ultimate badass). If they kept comming up with new villans it would be too much like dragonball z or digiman or something, where as soon as they defeat the boss, u find out tehre was someone else pulling the strings from the shadows who's even stronger.....it'll b really gay.

Waht i see happening is that we'll see the other 6 member of the secret organization (atkasuki or something) and they will be defeated one by one untill we finally get to itachi (and hopefully we'll see oro comeback somewher along the way). thats probably where the series should end.

As for what gokudagreat said, ur rite, sasuke has to be the one to defeat itachi, but that doesnt' mean naruto needs a villan to defeat too (and if that is what they decide to do, it'll probably be oro). SInce its sasuke's goal to defeat his brother, that conflict will be solved once itachi is dead. but naruto's goal is to become hokage, so its likely that rather then having him face a villan, he'll probably just become uber strongm be recognized for saving the village or something, and it'll be implied that he will soon become the hokage (i dont see the kishimoto actually showing them all grown up).

They might do somehting like an X-men:Evoluion ending, where all the kids are shown grown up, and naruto will be hokage and sasuke will be rite beside him with sakura/kakashi/iruka and the rest all in one big group

But ya, i dont see anotehr villan after itachi

Well, what about the kyuubi. You'd never know, it might sumhow find a way to break the seal (or someone dispells it), then that could be the ultimate baddy. Then Naruto would finish what the 4th started using his own powers against the kyuubi. It will show how much he's grown throughout the series

82 was kewl... @_@ was surprised at itachi

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Originally posted by: gokudagreat
I do trust that Itachi is mega-powerful, the only reason i would think that there will be one more stronger than Itachi is that Sasuke MUST be the one to kill or at least defeat Itachi, but that leaves Naruto hanging and obviously since the anime is named Naruto, i would think that Naruto would defeat the ultimate baddy, like the overlord of all death or some crap like that, anyways i think that there is probably one stronger than itachi, unless they choose to make the anime 900 episodes long, and the manga who knows how long, in which case there may be way more villains way stronger than Itachi

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i don't think we're gonna see another villian after itachi. i think naruto will defeat orochimaru. i can't explain further since i'll end up spoiling.

EDIT: if you really want to know why, PM me. but i'll be spoiling.

Man, i know Itachi is super badass and all, but come on, the anime is called Naruto for god sakes, just admit that he will end up being the hero of the story, and theres probably someone out there stronger than Itachi

you guys say that itachi uses the sharingan all the time? just cause he has it on all the time doesnt mean he's more dependent on it than kakashi is......

in fact they made no reference whatsoever in him using his sharingan when he was fighting kakashi, except for that mange sharingan thing he did at the end, and he obviously had the upper hand even without using that move

there's a common practice in the entertainment business to not openly state details that the audience is expected to assume based on the rest of the story details. For example, you can tell a person's status and power just by the way other people treat them. If everyone was all acknowledging gai as he walks down the streets and admire him for his insane skills, then we could assume he's on a level way above that of any of the other konoha ninjas. But instead people tend to acknowledge jiraiya, kakashi, and anyone from the uchiha clan....
therefore one could use these hints to figure out that "hey, these people MUST be pretty strong".....nobody really acknowledges gai, however....in fact even kakashi kinda ignores him half the time. Sure gai is probably strong, but just because we havent seen him lose yet doesnt mean that he's invincible.....gai even knows this himself, which is why he wanted asume to back him up and try to hold them until reinforcements arrive

in fact, the reference of gai and kakashi being nearly tied in wins/losses is supposed to hint to the audience that they are on the same level....and an even BIGGER hint about a potentially good fight (even bigger than gai pointing out a flaw in the sharingan, which i'd like to add doesnt actually put gai in any sort of advantage, in fact it decreases his vision of the target....it just prevents him from being vulnerable to the most powerful moves of the sharingan)...and that is sasuke vs itachi.....i think the whole "only another sharingan user from my clan can beat me" line is a good example of foreshadowing

EDIT: Thanks Mut@t@, i try to remind people that Naruto is, in fact, a tv show....and so there are some guidelines that its supposed to follow because of that [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
you guys say that itachi uses the sharingan all the time? just cause he has it on all the time doesnt mean he's more dependent on it than kakashi is......

in fact they made no reference whatsoever in him using his sharingan when he was fighting kakashi, except for that mange sharingan thing he did at the end, and he obviously had the upper hand even without using that move

there's a common practice in the entertainment business to not openly state details that the audience is expected to assume based on the rest of the story details. For example, you can tell a person's status and power just by the way other people treat them. If everyone was all acknowledging gai as he walks down the streets and admire him for his insane skills, then we could assume he's on a level way above that of any of the other konoha ninjas. But instead people tend to acknowledge jiraiya, kakashi, and anyone from the uchiha clan....
therefore one could use these hints to figure out that "hey, these people MUST be pretty strong".....nobody really acknowledges gai, however....in fact even kakashi kinda ignores him half the time. Sure gai is probably strong, but just because we havent seen him lose yet doesnt mean that he's invincible.....gai even knows this himself, which is why he wanted asume to back him up and try to hold them until reinforcements arrive

in fact, the reference of gai and kakashi being nearly tied in wins/losses is supposed to hint to the audience that they are on the same level....and an even BIGGER hint about a potentially good fight (even bigger than gai pointing out a flaw in the sharingan, which i'd like to add doesnt actually put gai in any sort of advantage, in fact it decreases his vision of the target....it just prevents him from being vulnerable to the most powerful moves of the sharingan)...and that is sasuke vs itachi.....i think the whole "only another sharingan user from my clan can beat me" line is a good example of foreshadowing

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wow. this post right here should be sticky'd. preach on brotha.

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now - arguing over a hypothetical situation is absolutely worthless

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Um, if we didn't do that, we wouldn't need a forum, as its pretty much the only thing to do here. You can only talk about a 20 minute long episode once a week for so long before the discussion roams into what COULD happen rather than what did.

Otherwise, the conversations would just die out, quick, and then...what would we need to come here for?

I'd be shocked if Itachi was the final villain of the series .. as a matter of fact (not a spoiler - just an opinion..) Itachi seems both weaker and more sympathetic in the anime compared to the manga. Itachi also has something else holding him back, and that is the 'zero-personality-no-jutsu' technique he has .. it's like he works as hard as he possibly can to be absolutely and completely boring. Hard for someone so utterly devoid of any memorable personality to be credible and effective as a villain. Kisame, while probably many times weaker than Itachi, at least is interesting to watch ..

Another problem with the 'Itachi-as-last-villain' theory, is that Kishimoto has Sasuke dialed up as the obvious protagonist character to take him down .. which wouldn't work for a couple of reasons ..

(1)- It will take Sasuke QUITE some time to get strong enough to even stand against someone the likes of Itachi .. maybe a hundred anime episodes at the minimum? All this while, it's pretty likely that we would see a new primary villain appear to replace Orochimaru ..

(2)- Having the main villain of the entire series being defeated by a secondary character (and a one-dimensional one, at that) .. would be staggeringly anticlimatic.

(3)- I don't want to get into anything from the Manga, but Itachi has already started a cycle of failure .. verbally dismissing the encounter as 'nonsense', but retreating nonetheless .. hardly the style of an ultimate villain.

(4)- Udon pwns Itachi any day of the week [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Well iam not so sure that Naruto will be th eone to save the day at the end of the series, i mean yeah sure thats the traditional way and its what everyone expects because the anime is called naruto. but the best films dont have the most expected endings. its stated that naruto isnt the kinds of guy thats at the centre of the story (thats bad paraphrasing however). now while this may have been to further his performance in the chuunin exam we cant be sure, it could be a direct hint that infact he WONT be the main character come the end show. perhpas he is a supporting role character, it is after all what his entire character is about, helping the people he cares for, and it wouldnt be too far fetch to assume he dies for this cause (read that as saving NOT killing somone to save the day).

also about the villans, i dont think this will be anywhere near the last villain, as we have ye tot be introduced to the othe rmemebers of itachis orginization. there has been nothign mentioned of the sand's intent on revenge and what consequences it could bring about ( i mean on oro not on konoha), we still have to be introduced to the other villages as well. and if you DO adhere strictly to the view that nartuto is the hero and he will beat everyone and he will become the hokage (as i think some people here will be) and unwilling to listen to alternate theorys then i still think he is a LONG way off of becomeing hokage, unless of course if everyone has a huge war wiht the organization and they all die except for naruto!

Lol yeah of course it's a long way off, but unless someone alters the universe ..

Naruto will eventually become Hokage ..
Sasuke will eventually avenge his family ..
Sakura will eventually become useful ..

LOL well maybe that last one is stretching it a bit [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] I'd still bet the odds are pretty high on learning something powerful before the series is over with .. though I couldn't possibly care less, she has been so 'blah' for so long. At least she's not repeating 'Sasuke-kun' over and over quite as much as she used to [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

I bet sakura's a genius.

Yea that seems like a total far stretch but remember shes got that two mind thing as we've seen againts Ino.

That thing took control temporarily and she looked all pyscho. I'm guessin shes got some super power or somethin. Maybe that sasuke lackey will actually become something useful. If not I predict in the end of the series she'll just become a teacher like Iruka sensei


Also I predict somehow that kyugi or whatever that nine tailed fox is called will someone get out of naruto and naruto will have to fight him. Yet somehow naruto will kick its ass and win.