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I sum up my feelings about this series the same way others have:
HRNNNNNNNGGGG
Bring on more feels.
Yuuki Aoi and Akasaki Chinatsu both killing it here with their respective characters. If he does ultimately save and end up with Kayo...gotta admit, gonna feel a little bad for Katagiri.
That said, Minase Akiko may finally have a true rival in Fujinuma Sachiko for the title of Best Anime Mom Ever. Less of a milf, true, but no less intuitive and connected.
Harem end. He has other girls to save, right?
The driver had a heart attack, he wasn't sleeping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
If he saves Hinazuki without Hinazuki being transferred to some far away place, it's hard to imagine they wouldn't end up together. That would most likely result in a timeline where the dude never even meets Airi. So, there would be no need to feel sorry for her. It's also possible he will never particularly get to know the other girls since he can't very well use the boyfriend strategy on all of them.
It would cool to see an older version of Hinazuki, to witness how pretty she gets if allowed to survive. I hope the show ends with such a sight.
And you are right on that. My goal would be to prevent my mother from dying and I from being framed of killing her. Hinazuki is just a collateral. She died 2 decades ago, if with my "machinations" she is to be saved I would be joyous but unless there is a 100% proof (not just some feeling in my pants cause I like underaged girls) that only saving her I can change what I came for I would just see her as another mean to my end.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
If she dies and I catch the killer I would be sad but my mission would be accomplished. Seeing how after whatever happened to Hinazuki there were still more kidnapings I would doubt her to even be so crucial if I act as a rational being. Someone was to be the trigger (if we assume this guy started here) if u "save" Hinazuki without knowing from what/who the serial psycopath would still keep going and I guess that seeing what happened at ep1 on the park and to his mother I would have some clues to think that whoever it is it must be related to me or my mother in some way.
Its not that I hate the show. I really enjoyed it for the first episodes. 3 & 4 seemed like total nonsense and bs to me and 5 was just crazy. Manager holmes, tyson airi, kidnaper goes into their job sniffing, then goes arsonist and uses the mothers phone, tracks mate even the 17 y/o girl knows this and phones remember in what tower you were at the time of messaging even if u later plant the phone to the MC it would still be inconsistent, not even syaing that police does some work and has the phone undersurveillance at all moments, just to get rid of a kid... dunno I find it lousy.
Anyone can like or dislike anything. I just find your reasons for disliking this show flimsy at best. The alternative you offer doesn't even make sense with your initial posts. At first you said he was wrong for not trying to save the other girls when he failed to save Kayo, now you say he should focus on just saving the mother and trying to catch the killer. This flip flopping sounds like you're just searching for reasons to dislike the show instead of having them first and then disliking the show.
Satoru's thinking was clearly explained. He wasn't even sure if he could change the past, seeing as how his actions seemed to mimic it without him meaning to. That's why he focused on doing at least one thing (he thought was) in his power, which is to save Kayo. It's his first concrete step in trying to stop the killings, not the final goal of his trip.
In the end, he failed to do even that, leaving him with no other clues as to how to save the others. It's not that he just got depressed and gave up. He simply did not have the info and resources to save the other girls.
TBH, I really just think it all boils down to you wanting him to be much smarter than he is, and that's fine. That doesn't make him stupid. He just isn't a genius.
The nonsensical stuff to you aren't really nonsensical. Everyone else who watches the show has explained the logic behind Satoru's actions and why it is quite believable given the context. This is similar to Mfauli not getting that OPM is a parody. It simply doesn't coincide with the direction that you want. It's a story about a normal guy sent back in time with limited info, not some emotionless (how can you NOT like Kayo?) genius sleuth who is destined to catch a killer on his first try.
And sorry, I tried understanding your last paragraph and failed.
EDIT:
I tried again and sort of got the phone thing. Turning off the phone disables any GPS tracking, so the killer can keep it off until he used it. When the killer used it to message the girl, it was intentional in order to frame Satoru for the killing. The mother's phone went missing when she was killed, and the main suspect is Satoru, which means that any messages coming from that phone are from him. That makes him the prime suspect for killing the pizza girl, assuming the police are able to retrieve the message in some other way other than the burned celphone inside pizza girl's room.
The killer is very thorough. He simply kills anything and everything that might know about him as soon as he can, as he did with Satoru's mother. The only reason Satoru is still safe is ironically because he is living under a bridge.
An anime director got his reputation tarnished and almost ended up in a prison because the Japanese police was dead sure that if a crime was performed from a certain IP address, then the owner of that IP address is automatically the mastermind of the whole crime. Only after a public outcry (because the person was connected to the anime world and thus the case was followed by otaku, that is, people who can actually tell a computer and a vacuum cleaner apart unlike the Japanese police) was the case properly studied and it turned out to be remote control malware installed on his computer and he had no fricking idea what was going on. The ANN article.
So, yeah, you can forget about the Japanese police checking phone location inconsistencies and other shit. I doubt they have ever even heard of such things, apart from the anti-terrorism and anti-espionage groups. He might or might not have been doomed when he found his mom dead, but he was doomed the moment he ran.
What phone inconsistency, though? I explained one aspect in my post before yours. Did I miss anything else?
He can't turn it off as he would be unable to turn it back on. Unless he even has contacts that would help him crack the pin code.
You're assuming Satoru's mom's phone has a lock. I don't have one. The killer wouldn't be able to text using the phone if it was locked.
But even if it was, I'm pretty sure it's not hard to find someone who can crack a celphone lock. People do that for a few bucks in my country. Maybe the killer can even do it himself from net videos lol. You can just crack it at a temp location, turn it off again, and move somewhere else. Then turn it on and send the message. Japanese police, or most local police for that matter, aren't the FBI.
Perhaps. Then we would have one more corpse: the person who cracked the sim card for the murderer.
In addition to what Shinta wrote:Quote:
And you are right on that. My goal would be to prevent my mother from dying and I from being framed of killing her. Hinazuki is just a collateral. She died 2 decades ago, if with my "machinations" she is to be saved I would be joyous but unless there is a 100% proof (not just some feeling in my pants cause I like underaged girls) that only saving her I can change what I came for I would just see her as another mean to my end.
His "ability" (time travel) seems to always bring him to a point where he can prevent what is going to happen.
Wouldn't that mean that his 18 year time-travel to the past, a few days before Kayo disappears, mean, that the person of interest is her, no matter how you look at it?
And remember what he said in ep.1? When he talked about how he *has* to look for anomalies and how he has to prevent or defuse the situation no matter what and he can't explain why?
Do you understand why he has this "urge" 4 episodes later?
Exactly, it's because of what happened to Kayo and his inability to do something back then, even though he (believes he) could have.
Him being back at that time most likely triggers his urge to "do the right thing" even more than ever before, either conciously or subconsciously... my guess is the latter. Why? Remember that his present-time-and-now-deceased mom told him that he was "on the brink" back when all this happened, and Satoru wasn't even 100% sure about what she was referring too? It seems like he barely escaped depression or some other kind of mental illness back then. His mom probably didn't even want to mention it further because she feared it could come back to him.
Finally he is able to redo that scene, that one decision that (so he thinks) could've prevented her death.
All these small hints about his motivation and his reasoning are spread throughout the whole series so far and this is why I believe this show is so great, it doesn't slap it into your face with 5min flashbacks or extensive train of thoughts but all the hints and explainations are there and thats the best kind of storytelling there is imho.
The attention to detail is so big in this show (I always feel as if I have to say "so far" though) and the overall level of quality (throughout all criteria, pacing, animation, storytelling etc. etc.) is ways above what most animes (maybe not all, but I would have to think really hard to find something better right now) could ever hope to reach.
edit: this came out a tad more fanboy-ish than I hoped, but I think I judged this show objectively so far.
new episode is out
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so assuming heīll go back to childhoo, he now has two options: idle around, then return to present and see who this guys is ... or try savin Kayo again, at the risk of changing the future, where the perpetrator will be gone then.
Oh, and FUCK those two women. "Whatīs an adult doing here?", you mean, like yourselves? And at least one of you didnīt have a baby. Fuck you.
Satoru learned a whole lot in this episode. He knew very little beforehand, now he knows a lot. The killer even got so arrogant he couldn't help but come to witness the arrest, to leer at Satoru. That's what happens when your plans proceed perfectly for years.
I reckon Satoru could now land at a slightly later time. He doesn't anymore need to win Hinazuki on his side since she's already her tiny girlfriend. So, rescuing her from the shack would be far easier, if it gets to that point. But then again, he also needs to go after that name he learned or things might not change for good. Saving Hinazuki is only the beginning.
I don't think Satoru got a chance to look at the "previous suspects" list. Airi called her phone just as he was about to look at it. He only knows the "remaining suspects," which he strongly believes aren't the true killers.
Now that we've gotten a slightly better look at the killer, I find it hard to believe that he is all that much older than Satoru. They might even be close to the same age. That means that Satoru could be looking for a peer or at most a high school student. This gives credence to the "multiple suspects" hypothesis, because I doubt the modern day killer was murdering up to 6 middle school girls (and one boy) all on his own. More like joining in the act and now taking up the mantle.
Though, given that I also assumed Hiromi was a girl who hung out with the boys in the class, and the leading theory is that he was murdered to throw off suspicion from people close to the victims...the likelihood that a classmate (or relative of a classmate) is involved is astronomically high. They'd be pretty much be the only ones who would know.
Touching on the very basics of the mystery: WHY did the perpetrator murder those girls? They werenīt raped, right? If thatīs the case, there must be some special motif behind the killings (especially since this is an anime! :P). What could it be?
With the murderer being not too far from Satoruīs age, like Ryll mentioned, I cannot shake off the feeling that Satoru is somehow the root of those crimes. Not necessarily by committing them himself in some sort of schizophrenic act, but in that he somehow triggers something that leads to those deaths.
This is even more important when we extend the girl-murder case to the animeīs overall mystery of Satoruīs "skill". Since this is a 1-cour anime (righ?), itīs pretty much a necessity to clear up the matter of his ability (unless the author leaves us hanging in the most frustrating manner) during this murder-case.
If that is correct, then I think the whole thing is a lot more personal for Satoru than just being a friend of Kayo and having his mother murdered because of it. And itīs very likely that the perpetrator knows of Satoruīs ability or has it himself.
Why is this show so good? Is George RR Martin writing this? If not, they should team up and write the greatest epic ever.
Game of Time Traveling Thrones.
I think Satoru has seen the "previous suspects" list, since he looked very frustrated and said he has "hit a roadblock" that the suspect was not on the list when Airi told him about the suspect she believes saw the schedule. That wouldn't have been the response if Satoru hadn't seen the "previous suspects" list as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryllharu
You know another thing that makes this show good? Internal monologue. A lot of shows, especially those adapted from VNs and LNs, forgo the internal monologues of the protagonist, taking away a gigantic chunk of content and characterization (i.e. Grisaia, SAO).
It's bad to overdo it, but cutting it away completely is a dumb decision, I think.
Oh man, that scene where the women suspected Satoru to be unemployed seems to be a real issue in Japan. These people are nuts, seriously.
I've heard this being said in a documentary once too where a german manager went over to Japan as a company boss.
He was totally shocked when he realised that they work from 7:00-19:00+++ (inofficially, like.. he came out of his office really late and saw them walking around) and they were all like: "Well, we don't leave before our boss leaves, that would be rude"
The way he handled that situation was rather funny. The next day, he went into their respective work areas at ~16:30 and said: "I'm leaving now, and if you arn't done with your work for today by now, you are working inefficiently, so you guys better finish up fast".
Obviously japanese people don't want to be told that, since they'd lose face and managed to finish their work 3-4 hours faster after that, but they were actually scared to go home because other people and their neighbours might think they are unemployed. Turned out they were just slacking off most of the time... and did nothing productive. One of them said something along the lines: "well, at first I didn't want to do it (because of what I wrote earlier)... but I realised that he is right, we really didn't do much and it's nice to see my wife and family sooner"
WTF is wrong with them? Holy shit.... I thought it was a special case but now I know he was totally right. They enslave themselve to work because they fear that other people might look down on them if they show up at ~15:00 @ home and by the looks of it (after watching this ep), THEY ARE ACTUALLY DOING THAT. Japan and it's scumbag society, god damn.
I couldn't help but realize that the author might criticise behavior similiar to that, maybe even japanese people directly. Just look at it. Everyone is *so* superficial. No one bothers to realize Kayo's problems and no one sees how kind and beautiful she truely is, the police is quick to assume the wrong because of "how things look" to them, people don't bother to believe or trust someone as soon as they see something "suspicious" or rather, they don't bother to ask or think it over first.
And then there is Airi, who is doing the polar opposite - someone that is actually able to believe or trust someone. A glimmer of hope that there actually is someone that believes you and that you yourself can believe in for the very same reason.
And also the murderer, who is probably using that superficiality to rise in rank and power.
It's as if the murders are there to show that he is able to do whatever he wants as long as people stay the way they are... and he's been doing that for years and will do it for years to come(!).
Btw super hyped for episode 7, that ending was such a tease.
I could be wrong here, but unless they wanted to make it extremely clear in the next episode anyway, I think they might've given away too much of the murderer's face. (and he looked a whole lot older in that pizza store imho)
Don't worry, every culture and society have their problems.
Satoru has to deal with it too, though it's not his main problem.
There are actually places that deal with REAL unemployment, not imagined ones, so yeah, Japan is better off still.
Is it even really so? Japan, like any old industrialised, service heavy countries is full of jobs that don't stick to the traditional office hours. There are endlessly people who must accept evening and night shifts at work. Those bastards whispering about his unemployment are also using services that require people to work outside of their primary concept of working hours. So, are those people then supposed to sit indoors all day long until they go to work? If he wasn't a wanted man, he should have educated them.
But then again, I reckon most people do realise this and those women were merely regular idiots.
Most people ARE regular idiots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
Dealing with unemployement is hard, dealing with it while also being despised and seen as the embodiment of failure is pretty hard to endure too, probably even harder.
It's not probably. The way you phrased it, you mean unemployment + stigma, which is obviously harder.
If I had to pick one or the other though, widespread unemployment (and poverty, the natural effect) is much worse than bad treatment of much fewer unemployed people.
Well, I wonder... widespread unemployment (over a long period of time) is harder for the country for sure, but what japanese people face, because of their own absurd way of thinking, is extremely hard for each affected citizen.
These people are adults and they still act like children. For example, I'm pretty sure Yuki wouldn't have any problems finding *adult* friends or work (outside of his family) in my country. He talks in a funny way? "oh my god, lets look down on him, how could he properly represent our mighty company and if I hang out with him, they'll think I'm retarded"
Better than starving to death. This is literally a "first world problem" scenario.
-Caught up on this, and it's heavy. I actually had to take breaks.
-Statute of Limitations re:murder : and I found this article.. basically showing much the change was driven by objective/convenience.
-Red eyes are used inconsistently in this show. They might be an indicator of intent or ulterior motive, but that's as good as it gets.
-In the OP, the government official looks a bit like our MC.
http://i.imgur.com/2QceZJG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UekzjJA.jpg
It doesn't fit in with the 'physics' of this world since (?)everyone's jumping into their former selves. The idea of the MC toying with his past self to trigger his own adventure isn't new however. Killing mum could have been the only way to save Kayo.. or something? Still, no evidence of double-selves in timelines yet.
-I thought Kayo's death was the real one, and the rest of the disappearances were just fabricated to cover up the fact Kayo was murdered by relatives. I don't think that's completely ruled out yet.
-Satoru's memory could have been fuzzy from the start because of the effect of various time-leaps and intrusions - which would mean that everything's pre-destined.
Episode 7 - HS
- - - - - -
I'm starting to think that when Satoru is thrown back in time into a kid's body, the undeveloped brain affects him, making his thought processes simpler, his ability to formulate plans and predict outcomes compromised, even if he still possesses the memories of an adult. With the memories he should have plenty of life experience, but it honestly doesn't seem like he's reaching that far. The plan this time had some huge flaws. It wouldn't exactly take a Sherlock to follow Satoru and other kids to that hiding place. The footprints in the snow alone would be enough for a good part of the journey. Somehow Satoru failed to think about that, it seems, even though Hinazuki being alone in that park and being alone in that abandoned bus is so analogous that it's incredibly difficult not to see the parallel. When he left her there alone for the first time I already thought that's really bad planning.
I have no idea where this is going to go next. Maybe the visitor is Yuuki and nothing happens. Maybe it's the killer, although this would be the first time we would have seen him in action like that. Who knows. Truth to be told, I don't know how to interpret Yuuki's reaction when Satoru accosted him. If he was like that in front the lazy cops looking for an easy arrest, he was done for.
FUCK! Gnarling my teeth at that cliffhanger >_<
Yes, I really donīt understand Satoruīs thought process here. Even if he ignored being followed the first time they went to the bus, it should have been obvious that thereīs a higher risk with every time they go and come, especially when they added another confidant. To be honest, I have no idea how he convinced Kayo of staying at the bus ... did I miss that scene?
Anyway, if I were Satoru, Iīd make sure that Kayo is never alone. Have either him or his smart friend stay with her, if necessary include the girly boy, too, although he seems to be at risk of being murdered, too. But damn, just donīt leave Kayo alone there :/
Oh my god. My heartrate is still higher than normal, I hate that cliffhanger so much. Please donīt let it be the murderer.
And regarding Yuuki: Was that initial reaction supposed to be a comedic moment? Because he reacted like a criminal that just got busted ... like, totally. That was super weird.
I hope this is a trap for the killer... But it's quite a dangerous setup.
Even more so when the culprit showed Satoru he's several steps ahead, and he proved that several times already.
I considered that for a moment, but ask yourself: If a murderer was after your girlfriend, would you use her as a bait with no backing from the police or anybody, in a location as unsecure as the one in this ep?Quote:
Originally Posted by David75
It just feels so unbelievable that Satoru would make a mistake this gross after telling himself this is his last chance and he'll do anything to save Hinazuki. That's why I don't know what to think.
It would be awesome if it was Satoru's mom, but the intruder looked like a man.
The biggest mistake he made was not telling his mom. He should open up to everything. The obvious weakness Satoru has in the current situation is his youth, which is why you need adult allies. His mom is the most obvious choice.
I mean, if he was ready to push that lady off the stairs (which he should have done), he could at least risk being labeled insane. If Kenya accompanied him to explain to his mother, it would've worked. The kid is more eloquent than Satoru at any age.
It's definitely not the killer meta-wise. It's either Yuuki or his mom, but that doesn't excuse his stupid planning.
Just now I wanted to write "maybe Yuuki is watching over Kayo from somewhere near the bus", but that wouldnīt make sense, since Satoru wants Yuuki to be as far away from her as possible. Nah, no matter how you look at it, Satoruīs current plan doesnīt make much sense.
But I still wonder if any of you guys can answer my above questions or if you wondered the same.
Kayo followed Satoru because she's in love with him. No convincing necessary.
Yuuki's reaction was a fake out for the viewers, for us to suspect him of being the killer even for a moment. It also makes sense in their reality because Yuuki is an extremely awkward person with odd reactions that probably got him convicted in the first timeline.
Regardless of whether Satoru told his mum or not, she'll come to the rescue. She's on top of this.
Satoru's plans are mostly to kinda fuck shit up. See, Yuuki's alibi doesn't mean much if Kayo's murder doesn't happen (or doesn't happen on that day) if you think about it right? It's mostly done to throw off whatever pre-determined plans the murderer has in an attempt to catch him out.
The kids can't all stay with Kayo forever since they're still kids and must make it back home before bedtime to not rouse suspicion.
I had alot of problems with how he handled things at first, but then I thought a bit about how he can't change things too much either, because that would make things even more unpredictable for him.
While he is, now, already on uncertain turf again, he can at least rule out a few or alot of things happening (or at least he thinks he can).
So maybe he is doing it on purpose - he might've chosen the wrong path again, but at least I can still understand why he's doing it that way.
We all think telling his mom would be for the best, but while she's an awesome, understanding mom, what if she takes things into her hands and starts messing it up. "I'm going to call the police, you arn't allowed to leave the house" (and all that kind of stuff).
What if his possible actions get limited instead.
"Last revival" -> why waste it by "trying" something out with lots of uncertainties.
So he decided to kill Hinazuki-san? I'm not buying.
And his mom is a good enough investigator and an open enough mind to notice his "power" and act on his advice in the future, as well as find out the killer's identity. I'd say relying on her is better than anything Satoru had done in this new timeline.
The more he grows found of Hinazuki, the more painful it gets to fail over and over again (think Steinsgate)
I guess we have too little to guess what happens next.
I don't think it's fair to call it that. I even agree with him not letting her go home... it's just that I would rather try to invite her to my home instead.Quote:
So he decided to kill Hinazuki-san? I'm not buying.
There is absolutely no way I'd believe a 12 year old that he could time travel without proof. This is typical for shows like these, you'd think "Man, why doesn't anybody notice it?" - but in reality, a world with no superpowers, that is just ridiculous.Quote:
And his mom is a good enough investigator and an open enough mind to notice his "power" and act on his advice in the future, as well as find out the killer's identity. I'd say relying on her is better than anything Satoru had done in this new timeline.
She didn't even "bother" enough to actually believe him when he said Yuuki wasn't the culprit.
The thing is, he HAS superpowers. He has ways of making her believe because he has a 29 year old brain. If he can't even do that, that's his failure. His mom didn't believe him back then because he was a kid with no evidence. This time, he can convince her or fool her or whatever, but it doesn't change the fact that getting her to help save Kayo is the best move he has.
Hinazuki-san is the mother, not Kayo.
edit: oh, nvm you meant Kayo's motherQuote:
Hinazuki-san is the mother, not Kayo.
So what, just because he has it doesn't mean I believe him... unless he can proof it, how do you proof it though? Especially when your memory of the past is basically non existent, it's not like he can use anything that happens in the future.Quote:
The thing is, he HAS superpowers. He has ways of making her believe because he has a 29 year old brain. If he can't even do that, that's his failure. His mom didn't believe him back then because he was a kid with no evidence.
Yeah, shinta, how exactly would he proof his superpowers? You wouldnīt remember everyday stuff to predict, so heīd be left to predict big events in history, and unless those happen just around the corner, tough luck. And having a 29 yo brain ... so what? He was a mangaka. So he can draw well. Totally unheard of for kids to enjoy drawing. Likewise any sort of knowledge ... his mom would just praise him for being such a smart kid and thatīs it. Being a timetraveller comes in last in terms of "reasonable explanations".
Explain stuff a kid wouldn't know or understand to his mother. A 12 year old kid shouldn't be able to talk and communicate like 29 year old guy. He doesn't need to prove time travel. What he needs to prove is his truthfulness.
The idea is not to open up with the time travel story. First you ease the mother into thinking that something major changed about her son (like how it happened with the smart kid), and then explain the details one by one. If that fails, the mother thinks her son is making shit up, the end. If it succeeds, he gets an ally.
Do you guys really think that mom, who supported his crusade to save Kayo, will ground or punish him for trying to explain things to her? At worst, she won't believe him. Satoru himself that his mom might even praise him for getting caught doing a crime while trying to save Kayo.
And I also said that he can try fooling his mother into it. For example, he can say that he saw Kayo's mother beat her in front of him, brutally even. Now he becomes a witness, and the beating becomes an actual crime. With Kayo under police protection, she is safe from the killer. It doesn't matter if he is lying because he knows the beating is true. Now that Kayo trusts him, she'd at the very least admit to being beaten to save Satoru from being labeled a liar and punished.
In fact, he can actually beat himself, and then blame Kayo's mother just to make it more believable. There are so many better ways to fix this situation given what he knows, but he chose a pretty dumb solution, part of which was pushing Hinazuki-san down the stairs.
You know what's funny? Apparently, so many people know about Kayo getting beaten, including his mom, the teacher, his friend... I mean, wtf? Why hasn't it been stopped? How many witnesses do you need to start a proper investigation?
EDIT: I remembered one important piece of convincing info. Satoru knows the guy who is his mom's old coworker/friend. Kid Satoru doesn't know him based on the flashbacks. That's already info he could only get from the future, and depending on how maturely and coherently he explains it, it can convince someone reasonably well.
If he was smart enough to convince her mother he's a fricking time traveller, he would be smart enough to come up with a plan to save Hinazuki without needing to reveal his time travelling powers. But, alas, he's not in the possession of an above average IQ. The biggest problem was mentioned by MFauli: He would need to reveal solid information from the future that nobody would possibly be able to guess, but what are the odds of suitable events happening right then and there, furthermore, events reported on the TV, newspapers, or the radio so that the mom could verify them? No convenient www around, after all. Simply knowing some reporter dude isn't enough, surely. The mom would just suspect he overheard something or was spying on her. Further confusing her mother is no good. He could lose all of his credibility in the worst case.
So what if he loses all credibility? Is he making use of his credibility right now? All he is doing is act like a kid, which makes his 29 year old self useless.
The only way to argue risk vs. reward is if the more conservative method actually accomplishes something and the risk is actually valid. In Satoru's case, neither is true. His method (trying to kill Kayo's mom, stashing Kayo in a bus alone) is way too dangerous, and he isn't making use of his mother's trust anyway by sneaking out at night.
Like I said, you don't need to prove time travel. All he has to do is appear sincere, and his mother will likely believe him. Don't you guys remember how Satoru's mom reacted when he saved that girl from being kidnapped? Did he have to prove time travel back then? No, his mother just moved according to his request. That's the kind of person she is. I wouldn't suggest talking to her if she was a prude. She is clearly a very open-minded, intelligent person. All Satoru needs is to gather enough circumstantial evidence, act like a proper adult, and explain properly. There are limits to the lies a 12 year old can come up with. His mother will be forced to believe him if he lays down everything he knows. I mean, how can someone his age suddenly become a genius, gain so much life experience, know so much about Kayo's case, and even know the reporter?
Even excluding that, my idea of lying about witnessing Kayo's abuse or faking an attack on himself is still a far more effective way of protecting Kayo than leaving her alone in a bus.
You either show that you're sincere by not lying, or you become willing to do anything to achieve your goals including lying/deceiving. I don't think you can do both and get away with it for long. Not in a situation like this. Especially when you're not Light-tier.
If I chose to reveal this to the mother I'd do it matter-of-factly while knowing I knowing it's a gamble. My last line would be to tell her that I don't expect her to necessarily believe me, but to not obstruct my actions because they're important to me.
That's exactly what I'm proposing. It's one or the other, but both are options he didn't take.
My main problem with the recent developments is his inability to learn from his mistakes. He keeps repeating the wrong things and even attempting utterly stupid ones without proper planning. He already did this twice for crying out loud.
I actually think killing Hinazuki-san is a good idea, but getting caught by your friend while doing so? That's beyond stupid.
As if he could possibly know that he's being stalked by one of his friends for 2 days already.Quote:
I actually think killing Hinazuki-san is a good idea, but getting caught by your friend while doing so? That's beyond stupid.
I'm not even sure if killing her was part of his plan, looked more like a coincidence to me.
You generally look around and make sure it's safe before trying to kill someone. Y'know, witnesses are a bad thing for killers.
Doesn't matter if it was his plan or coincidence. What matters is he actually tried to do it, which means he thought it was a good idea at the time.
No to both. Thats just not what it means to kill someone on impulse.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
So you're saying he simply stopped thinking and tried to kill the mother with no plan?
Good job Satoru! They ought to give him an award for being so smart.
Yes.Quote:
So you're saying he simply stopped thinking and tried to kill the mother with no plan?
A human is just that, a human. This has nothing to do with being smart or dumb.Quote:
Good job Satoru! They ought to give him an award for being so smart.
It has everything to do with being smart or dumb. The ability to control one's impulses is what makes us human, not having impulses.
I was being lenient towards Satoru's actions in his first revival, but this is his second attempt. Falling prey to impulses and not thinking things through is being stupid. I'm not even asking him to be a genius. Just don't do blatantly stupid shit.
That's comming from the person who said killing her is a good idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
He's personally affected by this, unlike you. The second attempt is even more crucial and taxxing on him, because in his timeline, he will have no chance to proof his innocence anymore.
And what is that statement even supposed to mean, that every man and woman, who ever acted on impulse is dumb and probably not even human? Animal instincts and occurring emotions are part of our live and that will always be the case. Even our laws realise that.
Yeah, killing her is a good idea. Getting caught while doing so is stupid. I thought you understood that after reading my posts. You seem to be mistaking "being smart" to "being moral," which is not the case.
He also has a lot more time and energy invested/dedicated to his situation than I do. Yet despite that, he almost threw it all away by acting on impulse instead of coming up with better plans. The stakes have always been high. That doesn't excuse acting stupidly.
We should stop arguing here, because I don't even agree with you that he's acting stupidly, he acted naturally.
And
This is the biggest bullshit I've read here in a while tbh... but then again, probably not. It's absurd nonetheless.Quote:
Yeah, killing her is a good idea. Getting caught while doing so is stupid.
Natural and stupid aren't mutually exclusive, though. People do stupid shit all the time.
EDIT:
Just read your edit about my statement above. I basically meant humans have the ability to think and should do so, mainly because you brought up the human excuse, which is actually true. People act on impulse and make mistakes. Those are natural. That doesn't make those actions, and the people doing them, right or smart.
But it's only stupid when they get caught... I guess?
If someones is actually able to avoid tax, he's smart... if he gets caught (by someone who's activiely looking for him), he's stupid?
Yes, but you totally fail to sympathise with him on an emotional and situational level and can only see things rationally from the comfort of your couch.Quote:
Those are natural. That doesn't make those actions, and the people doing them, right or smart.
You are clearly mixing up intelligence with morality. Those two aren't the same thing, and not even related.
A lot of smart people become criminals. Just look at politicians and serial killers. Heck, Kayo's killer is a great example.
I'm not mixxing it up, I'm not even aiming in that direction. I'm calling you out on saying "he's stupid" when your own plans arn't even close to being flawless or helpful.
You have problems with him acting naturally, without considering why he does things the way he does.
On the other hand you don't seem to have that much of a problem to understand his reasoning when it's pointed out for you.
This is literally a "penalty shot" situation, where the scorer decides to kick the ball in the bottom left corner... too bad the keeper jumped in that direction. Yet there is this one guy saying "He should've shot in the right corner".
My plans are better than his, at least. I already stated them in my previous posts, so I'm not gonna repeat them.
If you specifically mean killing the mother, it's actually a good idea. He just has to do it without anyone catching him. Pushing her off the stairs will actually suffice IF there weren't any witnesses. The thing is, he didn't even check, because as you said, he acted on impulse. Just to be clear, this scenario assumes that she'll actually die from the fall. If the stairs aren't high enough to ensure that, then the entire thing is a no go.
If the mother dies, the police will have to step in. Kayo might get sent to a facility, but at least that keeps her safe. Safer than being alone in a bus, at least.
The best part is Kayo will be free from her mother's abuse.
And I do consider why he is acting like that. I even understand it. But I don't like it, nor do I think it's the right course of action. It is certainly stupid.
Not going to write about the master plan of leaving Kayo alone for long periods of time and not even trying to hide traces or the 10 steps killing push of her mother. Nor the alibi for the night that nothing happens for Yuuki.
I actually wonder why he thinks that this is the last time he could use his "power". Going from 1 to 2 is harder than going from 2 to 3 in any experiment. He already achieved a 100% increase with his 2n chance. Getting a 50% increse could be imposible but doesnt seem logical to think that way.
I think that the guy going into the bus its actually a friendly. Its strange clothes to be Satorus mother but I doubt its the killer.
Did we get any hints to why its so fking vital for the killer to kill Kayo first? They even said he did it in some other town previously so she isnt the trigger. I also didnt understand why killing the girly boy after the 1st time travel change was any clever move.
It feels like if some characters aknowledge of someting being clever spectators will think its clever. That could work with dumb people (like satoru) but is crappy writting.
ps: Did the news reporter say that kayos mother was jailed for beating her daughter and leaving her to die of freeze in the shed? But then they said that the boot prints on the shed matched Yuuki and that led to him and some pedophile content he had or was his fathers pedophile library or was the killer (that goes around town into every crime scene over and over again, very clever, to say hi?) that planted it? I must admit that im no longer even thinking when watching this series. Its like a Clusterfuck of nonsense actually.
Unless this is somehow a part of Satoru's plan, I almost hope it's the killer and Hinazuki disappears/dies again, even though I want nothing as much as her ending up happily ever after. Because if it's not a part of Satoru's plan, then this whole situation is even worse than the untouched timeline or his first attempt. There's still some risk for the killer to carry a body away from the housing area and later return it, while there's absolutely no risk visiting an abandoned bus in the middle of nowhere. It would be a different thing if Satoru had made a bigger effort of involving more people, especially adults, but in that case Hinazuki living in the wreck of a bus would be quite unlikely. No sensible adult would leave a little kid there all alone. Oh, right, Satoru is actually 29 years old, but we all know he's not overly sensible.
It's vital for Satoru to not let her die, and that's what this is about.Quote:
Did we get any hints to why its so fking vital for the killer to kill Kayo first? They even said he did it in some other town previously so she isnt the trigger.
Then you should rewatch that scene where it was explained.... or actually start thinking, which you've given up on as you said yourself.Quote:
I also didnt understand why killing the girly boy after the 1st time travel change was any clever move.
True, but at the same time, he can't really target her. First of all, he can't (from what we know) make it look like someone specific killed her and that seems to be "his thing", (is it not?) and I wonder if a killer like ours would risk an open investigation.Quote:
Because if it's not a part of Satoru's plan, then this whole situation is even worse than the untouched timeline or his first attempt. There's still some risk for the killer to carry a body away from the housing area and later return it, while there's absolutely no risk visiting an abandoned bus in the middle of nowhere
Then I wonder whether the "Clubroom" is actually as abandoned as we think it is...I too think it's weird, but then again' it's next to a grade school or something.
Episode 8 - HS
- - - - -
Holy shit, Satoru actually did beat the murderer in pure luck. It's actually quite funny that the visitor was the murderer all pissed off after failing to retrieve Hinazaki from where he thought she is, only to miss her by three meters at the last place he would have expected her to be in.
It's unbelievable how much I enjoy watching good things to happen to poor Kayo.
Man, that "Yeah". What a smooth operator.
Omg, I canīt! When I was about to start watching, I remembered last weekīs cliffhanger and honestly pondered for a moment, if I actually WANT to watch this :/ Then I did and first was like "ok, not a bad person, itīll turn out fine". Only for it be revealed that it WAS the murderer! Fuck, fuck, fuck!
And this confirms that Satoru really had no smart plan in play, it was sheer luck that Kayo survived in the bus. Truth to be told, the murderer should have noticed the warmth and smell coming from somewhere inside the bus that should have been ice-cold.
But Satoru made another mistake, although itīs only the 2nd biggest problem: Instead of simply forsaking the bus, he should have made an effort to find out who the murderer is! Something could have been done, since he knew the murderer would return to the bus. Which, however, leads us to the number 1 problem:
HOW can Satoru EVER stop the murderer, when no murder has been committed? Unless you catch him right in the act PRIOR to murdering the victim (which would be way convenient), there has to be at least one victim to convict somebody. Taking a police officer to the bus, confronting the to-be murderer and pointing at the tool wonīt work. Bullshit excuses will be made with ease then. So if Satoru truly intends to stop any killings from happening, thereīs only to options imo:
1.) Kill the to-be murderer
2.) Confront him by himself and do the best Naruto-speech that has ever been given
Both options leave a lot desired.
Sidenote: Satoruīs mom is totally hot. Would love to take a bath with her, too. And since she didnīt age in 20 years, sheīs the perfect woman lol.
Best fucking scene, LOL. Really makes you wonder if heīs brain capabilities revert when he jumps back in time. Itīs so weird. He simply shouldnīt have any such thoughts or turning red; itīs a little girl, a grade school girl. If these scenes continue, this animeīs final episode will end with Satoru having turned a pedo criminal himself from all the contact with Kayo. Only half-joking here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
Maybe I was to hard on this show. It could actually be somewhat a master piece. This last episode took a turn into full Fargo mode. The bad guy getting mad and staying 2 meters away from his victim felt a lot like Justified/better call Saul.
Almost everybody is stupid in their cores, people dont think before acting, your normal joe works on impulses and luck and police are utterly obnoxious and lazy. Criminals arent smart, not even this suppossed evil genius, is just everybody else that cant reason added to a corrupted system by mediocrity.
This could be a great satire and a critique of Japan and their traumatized, phobia filled and dumbed society.
Nice turn of events.
I also wanted them to keep an eye on the bus to see who the killer was (they still might), since it's a golden oppertunity.
It seems Kayo is going to be okay now, but that would end it there, unless the focus shifts to finding the murderer, since the 2nd victim was shown this episode, and Satoru mentioned that she'd be killed soon. Gave me the thought that he'll 'use' her to find the killer. Given the fact that his mother is now involved in saving Kayo, the murderer might still hold a grudge agains her for taking away his prey.
Besides all that.. damn Kayo's life sucked. Besides getting the crap beaten out of her all the time, her breakfast was Kenny McCormick level...or even worse. It's surprising that she's able to smile at all.
Aside from the dumb ass killer and the fact that Plan B should've been Plan A, this episode took this show back on track.
We got more sweet Kayo moments, and a fucking bath scene involving 2 of the hottest anime girls this season, and both are in polar ends of the hotness type spectrum!
Kayo's VA is doing a godly job. Her voice is cute as hell and fits Kayo's kuu/dandere looks and personality. Not only that, the subdued crying scene was absolute excellence. You can really feel that the child has been abused when she can't even cry in earnest.
Seriously, what was the point of the previous episode? See how cool yokai mom is? See how much Satoru trusts her? What the hell was with that dumb ass bus plan? If they take out the entire bus idea, this show would be blameless. I could even forgive Satoru's impulsive killer instinct.
EDIT:
Speaking about dumb things, did you know that the English title for Boku Dake ga Inai Machi (A Town Where I'm Gone) is "Erased?" What the hell is that?
Thereīs nothing "hot" about Kayo ...Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
Yeah, I knew, and i hate it. But I hate all english titles of anime. Last I remember I absolutey hated was Sakamichi no Apollon, something "Kids ... Slopes ... whatever".Quote:
Speaking about dumb things, did you know that the English title for Boku Dake ga Inai Machi (A Town Where I'm Gone) is "Erased?" What the hell is that?
Either keep the Japanese title or make it a more literal translation. But donīt make up bullshit. When a friend of mine complained to me he cannot memorize the japanese title, I told him to call it "Gelöscht" then (German translation of "Erased"), to make fun of how bad the English translation ist.
Ah, ffs, now I keep fantasizing about bathing together with Satoruīs mom. Help.
Look at my sig and say that to my face.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
Just to be clear, I'm not saying you should find lolis hot. I'm saying I find lolis hot. To each their own.
Okay, sorry. Admittedly, Iīm already 30, so finding lolis "hot" would be awkward for me, compared to the attractions of a youngun like yourself ;>Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
Dang, you're actually 30?? I always thought that was a fake age and you're actually 15 or something.
I don't expect to suddenly find lolis not hot in the next 4 months, so I don't think it has anything to do with age (see Satoru, the 29 year old). Lolis are immortal! Kayo is immortal!
Isn't Satoru in love with Kayo? It would be pretty sad to love someone romantically without finding them attractive. He keeps telling himself he's 29, but in fact he's not 29. He's... Well, whatever those kids' age is currently. But then again, it might be better this way since it perhaps allows him to treat Kayo in a more suitable way fitting a victim of heavy abuse. Despite his awesome answer to the mom, I don't expect him to make any strange moves.
Heīs a cheater, though. Assuming he manages to get rid of the murderer, heīll have used his 29 yo wits to make a 9yo girl fall in love with him. Thatīs not right! And I also wonder if, when he jumps back at the happy end, his brain will suddenly be filled with new memories, because of course heīll have been married to Kayo for the last 20 years ... that he didnīt actually experience!
@shinta: Iīm actually 16 on the inside, but yeah, my passport says 30. See ya soon!
I actually hope he doesn't jump back at all. He catches the killer and then lives his life all over again, this time more meaningfully thanks to Kayo.
Kayo can become his adopted sister with benefits. Then he can hunt down pizza girl in the future and make her the legal wife. Then he can woo the Yokai into bed and make himself the ultimate clubhouse sandwich harem.
What's wrong with it. Short and fitting. Fits even better than the original if you ask me.Quote:
EDIT:
Speaking about dumb things, did you know that the English title for Boku Dake ga Inai Machi (A Town Where I'm Gone) is "Erased?" What the hell is that?
btw, it should be "A town where only I am gone/donīt exist".
and goddam, shinta. I didnīt even know about the term "sister with benefits" until now ...
Because it doesn't respect the original Japanese title. It's not that hard to translate the title, and it isn't even that long. Why change it?Quote:
Originally Posted by KrayZ33
Erased sounds like an action flick, to be honest. It doesn't carry the slice of life and mystery feel of Boku Dake ga Inai Machi.
This story isn't even remotely "slice of life" and it covers the mystery part quite well... also the time traveling/changing past theme and Kayo's/Satoru's story.
Who gives a fuck though and why.
there are so much worse.
For example, Mononoke-hime is not "The Spirit Princess" but Princess Mononoke, and no ones is named "Mononoke" in that show.
Maybe I'm just used to it because we germans have a history of changing movie names.
Well, Iīm German, too, and your posting makes no sense. Translating "Mononoke hime" into "Princess Mononoke" is a super-literal translation. Nothing got re-interpreted in the translation process. You could even argue the translation is too literal, since they left "mononoke" untranslated.Quote:
Originally Posted by KrayZ33
Then youīre saying youīre used to changed movie titles because of German history? How does that come together?
Also, Germany isnīt exactly famous for changing titles, but infamous for adding unnecessary subtitles. :>
So, what's Mononoke supposed to mean? There is no character called Mononoke in the show, what is a Mononoke.Quote:
Well, Iīm German, too, and your posting makes no sense. Translating "Mononoke hime" into "Princess Mononoke"
You probably don't even know the original titles my friend.Quote:
Then youīre saying youīre used to changed movie titles because of German history? How does that come together?
Also, Germany isnīt exactly famous for changing titles, but infamous for adding unnecessary subtitles. :>
Face/Off -> Im Körper des Feindes -> In the Body of my Enemy
or
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl -> Fluch der Karibik -> Curse of the Caribbean
and then the second movie: Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest -> Pirates of the Caribbean - Fluch der Karibik 2 (wtf?)
etc. etc.
or some older stuff from Arnold: "The Running Man" -> "Der Zweite Mann" -> "The Second Man"
So yeah, I'm probably just used to it, sometimes they are even better than the original and I don't see a problem with this.
The story has slice of life elements in it, like his school activities and home scenes. Remember Edort complaining about filler-ish stuff? Those are it. I'm not saying it's a slice of life show, but it's a show set in a town in Satoru's youth. "Erased" erases all that from the title (lol). Go and ask someone what they think a story titled "Erased" is about and you'll get what I mean.
Putting all that aside, changing the title completely is nonsense. It could've been easily translated. That's always been my stance in localization, but you're free to disagree.
Yeah, but nothing got changed, which was the point of this discussion. "Boku dake ga inai Machi" should be "The town where I only I do not exist". Instead it became "Erased". That is completely out of nowhere. Leaving "Mononoke" like that is a pure translation decision, turning it into something else entirely is a interpretation decision, and a bad one at that. Itīs as if they had turned "mononoke hime" into "Forest of Gods" or some shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by KrayZ33
It might have been more prevalent in the past, but for the past 10+ years? We get the original English titles or literal translations of them. Not saying thatīs 100% for all movies.Quote:
You probably don't even know the original titles my friend.
Whoa, seeing how the Germans switch titles makes me understand why Krayz is so tolerant of it. In my country, we use the original English titles of all Hollywood movies. In fact, we use English titles for a good chunk local movies too.
"In My Enemy's Body" LOLWTF.
It's not, the movie translates to "the princess of spirits" or something similiar, why not use it? It's a fitting title too because that's what San(?) is pretty much.Quote:
Yeah, but nothing got changed, which was the point of this discussion. "Boku dake ga inai Machi" should be "The town where I only I do not exist". Instead it became "Erased". That is completely out of nowhere. Leaving "Mononoke" like that is a pure translation decision, turning it into something else entirely is a interpretation decision, and a bad one at that. Itīs as if they had turned "mononoke hime" into "Forest of Gods" or some shit.
They decided to translate the -san -hime -dono - part but not the important part... why not?
"Die Hard" is still "Stirb Langsam"... pretty much the opposite as "Die Hard" means "you can't kill him" and we translated it as "he dies slowly"Quote:
Originally Posted by MFauli
Black Eagle became Red Eagle and all that kind of stuff, as I said... we have a history of changing titles and as you mentioned, even adding nonsense.
Oh remember "Taken"? - No you don't, because we call it 96-hours... not even 96-Stunden, no, 96-hours. We gave an english title, a new english title.
Again, turning "mononoke hime" into "princess mononoke" isnīt re-interpretating/changing the original. Turning "Boku dake ga inai Machi" into "Erased", is.
And as I said, thereīs still sometimes weird, unnecessary title changes, but itīs gotten way less frequent. Btw the sequel to 96 hours is called "96 hours - Taken 2" in Germany lol
But it also fails to translate anything meaningful. Mononoke isn't a name... people don't realize it and actually think San is called (Princess) Mononoke because of that.Quote:
Again, turning "mononoke hime" into "princess mononoke" isnīt re-interpretating/changing the original.
If they had done it right (even if they chose not to translate the meaning of Mononoke), you'd actually have to call the movie The Princess of Mononoke... or "Die Mononoke Prinzessin"
Or they could call it "The Forest Monsters," in German, of course.
More like: "A Tale of Wisps and Willows" because "willow" also means "reißwolf" in german (shredder) and "reißen" is what a wolf does to a sheep and double meaning with Will-o-wisp and shit....and... all that.
Get it? GET IT? thats some german thinking right there.
Or call it "Prinzessin Mononoke", a title that is distinct and instantly recognizable and unique.
Most Germans understand English, right? If so, why the need to change the titles?
Ya, because we all know what Mononoke means, right?Quote:
a title that is distinct
I don't know. As I said, we actually use our own english titles that are different from the original english title.Quote:
Most Germans understand English, right? If so, why the need to change the titles?
edit: I just asked my brother "How was the female lead in Princess Mononoke called again?" - "Mononoke, you dummy."
Just saying...
Well, lets discuss the show.
I think itīs because German media are somewhat proud of their localization process. I mean, you have exactly two big dubbing nations in the world: Japan and Germany. Yeah, France and the US do dubbing, too, but the US does it mostly for cartoons. But only Germany dubs EVERYTHING. I mean, we even dubbed those Jackass-movies, which was weird as hell. But thanks to that, German dubs are also really good in general, much like Japanese dubs are the finest in the world.
So, maybe when you value translation/localization to this degree, translating the title comes naturally.
Everybody knows what movie is meant when you mention it, so, yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by KrayZ33
You do realize that this applies to every movie ever? That has nothing to do with being distinct.Quote:
Everybody knows what movie is meant when you mention it, so, yeah.
"Oh ya, that movie with the wolf girl called mononoke, right?"
Thatīs not true at all. No idea what youīre talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by KrayZ33
What the hell are you guys talking about? Get a new room (thread) for that stuff.
I feel like murderer flags are being dropped all over the teacher for multiple reasons:
1. When they did angle on his face from a side-view, it looked almost exactly like the side-view of that hatted man in that first episode when he was caught in the act.
2. There is no reason for him to be given this much screen time.
3. The camera keeps pausing on him for a second or two too long after his interaction is done. Again, no reason for this.
4. During conversations that he has, you don't always hear everything that he has to say. No reason for this to happen....unless he's the f'ing killer