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Yeah, it's only in the 3part Special edition DVD compalation (that cut out half of my favorite scenes, btw) that the helmet is cut out - personally I think it's a stupid thing to remove, especially on such a remote source, does this mean we are to accept the DVD Special Ed as pure Cannon?
If they really did so something as drastic as edit out the helmet we can safely bet that Mwu is still alive..... which will yet start another string of arguments.
Quote:
Originally posted by: Roko
Rey never was Zaft's topgun. Shinn always was, which was the reason he was given Impulse. Mwu was a topgun, yes, but with mobile armors, not suits. And Kira was never part of the EA before being forced to pilot Strike. Athrun was annihilated by Kira because Kira is the ultimate coordinator, and ultimate coordinator>coordinator. And because Kira is the ultimate coordinator, he can kick anybody's butt anyday. There, I'm done contradicting you.
Um first off Rey is a top gun and direct comments were made as to he should have been given the impulse and not shinn. Next Shinn has developed and this was noted by Dullindale who saw the possibility of Shinn becomming a top gun based on his DNA.
As for Mwu yes he was a topgun in the EA with a mobile armor. However considering that Zaft invented mobile suits and were the only ones to have them at the start of the war this is pretty much a given as Mwu had no mobile suit he could piolet. Also note that later when Mwu uses the Strike he is easily considered a top gun in a mobile suit in his own respect as the 5 gundams that the series is about are the prototype suits for the EA to fight back against Zaft.
As for Kira and Athrun, yes its a fact Kira is the ultimate coordinator, however also note that Kira was attempting to make a nonleathal dismantaling of Athrun's mobile suit. This is a much much harder thing to do then killing your opponent. As such if Athrun was attempting to kill Kira it could be said they were on equal footing. Yes Kira could all out kill his friend or whoever else he wants at a given point but then he wouldn't be Kira.
hmmm...neo doesn't necessarily have to be either mwu or rau, but if he has to be either, going with the evidence we have from GS and GSD it is more likely to be mwu than rau. there will be some inexplicable reason to his survival but since rau didn't expand on the clone story he was giving in GS there's the possibility that something really important was left out. like breathing in space ehehehe... it can't be rau because he knew about rey whereas mwu never did. and if he is indeed mwu he must have major amnesia or was brainwashed to not remember the freedom and archangel, which is why i stated in the beginning that it doesn't have to be either of them.
the possibility of neo being a rau/mwu clone...that could very well be true. remember mwu said something about how rau had a short telomere which made him age quickly? thought i'd throw that in. also there's some undisclosed relation between kira + mwu + rau + neo and maybe even rey seeing as how kira could sense rau and vice versa in GS and kira sensing neo in GSD. the show's called GS Destiny for a reason, all the answers will be given here. all we can do is ponder and argue till we have them.
rey IS top gun - all red suits are topguns.
As I said in another thread and will say again here. Compliations, movies and anything else officially released is considered cannon. The manga's are cannon, the OVAs even the Compilation. Since they are newer they take precedence over the series if scenes were altered. The DVDs for the series are not edited and therefore will still have the original scenes of the series.
Now since people are putting up pics can I get a picture of the Strike's torso after the explosion. If you could provide an image like the Strike exploding that would back up peoples claims. But I am only expecting the shield's explosion and then the cloud that hides the Strike from our view. They didn't even show us Mwu dieing in the cockpit the bastards.
Question also. Does anyone here play or has played the Gundam War CCG? I had a question about the Neo card.
Well I finally got the DVD. (The helmet was definately still there heh)
Anyways, it looked like to me that Strike got completely vaporized. But then... you see some debris left over in the next scene. Weird animators.
I'm having trouble taking the screenshot (PowerDVD fails me again!) but I can describe it to you.Quote:
Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
Now since people are putting up pics can I get a picture of the Strike's torso after the explosion. If you could provide an image like the Strike exploding that would back up peoples claims. But I am only expecting the shield's explosion and then the cloud that hides the Strike from our view. They didn't even show us Mwu dieing in the cockpit the bastards.
Mwu stops the Positron Beam and his shield starts to melt, He looks back (inside his cockpit, he'd b looking at the bridge of the Archangel) and says "I was right... I really can make the impossible possible." then you see a smoke cloud envelop him with the sound of an explosion - camera cuts to the head of the Strike, and it starts to disintegrate, then explodes. Camera cuts to a longshot of the Strike holding back the beam, the beam convulses and balls up against the Strike.
Strike 'explodes' (you see a giant pink explosion cloud... why is it pink?) then it fades and you can't see the Strike at all (ninja vanish!) Marius' face wells up with tears and she screams out his name.
The shot cuts just as she screams and we are looking at the Archangel from the front, the tattered remains of the Strike's Aile pack, a leg and what looks like the lower section of the torso are scattered across the screen (this is where the shattered helmet usually floats past, but the DVD SE edited it out)
Well if it's true about the SE DVDs about the helmet scene so be it.
But they so better come up with a good explanation on how Mu survived...
Oh look! I found a freeware screenshot program, now I have the screens (that THAT! PowerDVD)
anyway, here it is - it's 197k, btw.
Mwu's Death
canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon
its spelled with one 'n'
Canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon.
It's spelled with one 'n'.
------------------------------------
You need to punctuate properly.
He could have gone behind Archangle when clouded and then hide in debris
thats just stupid, hmm okay ill play dead and hide behind the ship that carries my friends and my lover then i'll rejoin the EA with a diffrent name and wearing a mask just like my daddy's clone did woohoo i own!! doesnt really sound like a plausible theory to me....
to me the pics kovash posted is enough for me to think of mwu as dead even if the did edit out the helmet, we still got the explosion(the pink one is clearly strike blowing up) then we have the strikes lower torso ripped in pieces together with the aile pack, now tell me how mwu survived this again? while strike blocked the beam he jumped out of the suit and swimmed to nearest astroid och debris parts? if he got out of strike wouldnt he go down to to the archangel instead? there is no logic in mwu surviving and joining the EA as neo.
That collage should indeed end the discussion. Of course, with the people here, it won't though.Quote:
Originally posted by: Kovash
Oh look! I found a freeware screenshot program, now I have the screens (that THAT! PowerDVD)
anyway, here it is - it's 197k, btw.
Mwu's Death
Oh and Guardian, of course movies/summaries are canon... but the issue at hand is whether what is "more" canon, the summaries or the TV series itself? For all we know, the helmet removal might be simple censoring (Though that would make no sense either). Then again, not much makes sense when it comes to these things..
There wasn't much logic in Gundam Wing when Heero didn't die from that self detruction sequence. Also when Kira survived the final explosion in Seed.
What I'm saying is that the people who write the story can bring whoever back to the series as long as the body's not found...... no matter how ridiculous or incredible it may seem. So, remember nothing is impossible, especially for someone who makes the impossible possible.
If the DVD really did has the helmet edit out....... then we gotta start getting our mindset re-adjusted that Mwu may be Neo after all.
both of those are main characters mwu is not. shitty explaination but main characters dont die from things normal characters would.
I don't want to compare Seed to Wing, everybody was invincible in that show. Compared to Wing, the mysterious survivals of Seed characters are at least explained (sort of) properly.
It's not really the whole "Mwu surviving" gig that disturbs me, it's the enormous amount of suckage that would appear if Mwu is Neo.
oh that to of course. mwu did this heroic deed and saved the ones he cared for with his own life, which made his character even better, it showed that he is a real hero. to make him survive and become neo just ruins his character.
I think it adds alil more depth to it. Its a shame those screenies are so small but it still doesn't show the Strike blowing up. To note all explosions I've seen in the SEED universe that occur in space are pink. Also if something explodes it exerts a force. Like I have said the whole time as the shield gives out and explodes the Strike takes that last brunt but because of that is still consist of pieces with no torso/cockpit to be seen. The console definately starts to blow as the cameras and sensors in the head are blown away. But if the explosion is just like they shown the shield and it was infront of the strike the force of that is gonna push it away and they hide our view of what really happens to the Strike with that damn smoke cloud.
Again Terra so you can understand. Since the SE came out afterwards and the scene that was in the series is edited in the special edition it takes precedence. It wasn't removed they edited the helmet out for whatever reason. Sure alot of people are gonna be disappointed if Mwu is indeed Neo but then some of us are interested since we could see how he may have survived. Remember he makes the impossible possible. Mwu he put his life on the line to save the AA and the woman he had falled for. To be badly injured captured and then brainwashed into being the possible destroyer of the AA puts an insane spin on things. The funny thing is how much of Mwu stands out in Neo. Then again there is that chance it is a clone. Slightly less but its possible.
Don't talk like I don't understand simple logic, you fucktard. If you read my reply you'd see that I acknowledge whatever purpose an SE shows, what I meant was if it's truly that important that the helmet is removed, I doubt it would be hard at all for the Seed crew to fix that on the DVDs. Though I didn't regard at the time I wrote it that these are US DVDs (meaning that the japanese ones are already out). I didn't think about that. It has nothing to do with understanding what you write.Quote:
Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
Again Terra so you can understand. Since the SE came out afterwards and the scene that was in the series is edited in the special edition it takes precedence. It wasn't removed they edited the helmet out for whatever reason.
and after that we see a peice of strikes torso along some other pieces hinting that the rest got destroyed completly.Quote:
Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
I think it adds alil more depth to it. Its a shame those screenies are so small but it still doesn't show the Strike blowing up. To note all explosions I've seen in the SEED universe that occur in space are pink. Also if something explodes it exerts a force. Like I have said the whole time as the shield gives out and explodes the Strike takes that last brunt but because of that is still consist of pieces with no torso/cockpit to be seen. The console definately starts to blow as the cameras and sensors in the head are blown away. But if the explosion is just like they shown the shield and it was infront of the strike the force of that is gonna push it away and they hide our view of what really happens to the Strike with that damn smoke cloud.
Seems like a lot of people are still taking about the mwu death scene. So I've made this gif for people who are too lazy to go dig out their old Seed episodes.
http://img64.echo.cx/img64/9238/mwu0pv.gif
Man... that scene was so awesome..
Well you make it seem like you don't when you constantly say the same thing and act like you didn't bother to read the post. Here is alil more info the DVD release of the series is supposed to be just that, the series unedited. Unedited being the Japanese and the US release. Also I think the Japanese DVDs were all released before the SE was released. Just for alil more to add to that topic.Quote:
Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Don't talk like I don't understand simple logic, you fucktard. If you read my reply you'd see that I acknowledge whatever purpose an SE shows, what I meant was if it's truly that important that the helmet is removed, I doubt it would be hard at all for the Seed crew to fix that on the DVDs. Though I didn't regard at the time I wrote it that these are US DVDs (meaning that the japanese ones are already out). I didn't think about that. It has nothing to do with understanding what you write.
I'm sorry i can't tell which piece you're refering to as the torso. I see parts of the arms and legs and the aile pack. Which would make sense since when the Head got shredded off the arms then got shredded off. The animation helps illustrate this nicely although I had to go back to the DVD for the finer details.Quote:
Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
and after that we see a peice of strikes torso along some other pieces hinting that the rest got destroyed completly.
--Psyke thanks for showing that scene. Even thou its small it helps most that don't have the downloads or have the dvds.
No, I don't make it "seem like" anything. You just don't understand, as usual.Quote:
Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
Well you make it seem like you don't when you constantly say the same thing and act like you didn't bother to read the post. Here is alil more info the DVD release of the series is supposed to be just that, the series unedited. Unedited being the Japanese and the US release. Also I think the Japanese DVDs were all released before the SE was released. Just for alil more to add to that topic.Quote:
Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Don't talk like I don't understand simple logic, you fucktard. If you read my reply you'd see that I acknowledge whatever purpose an SE shows, what I meant was if it's truly that important that the helmet is removed, I doubt it would be hard at all for the Seed crew to fix that on the DVDs. Though I didn't regard at the time I wrote it that these are US DVDs (meaning that the japanese ones are already out). I didn't think about that. It has nothing to do with understanding what you write.
I wont ask you how you made animated gifs as i know you can do it in photoshop or something like that but thanks for that it proves Mwu is dead and Neo is probably a clone of him or his father. It probably surprised alot of ppl when the intro shows Ramius reacting to someone that may be Mwu and pointing a gun at him. I guess the revelation to that will come later.
that gif is good evidence, explosion BOOM no more strike.
Except the pieces of strike that are there are relatively in tact. I was able to go through and the torso is shown upside and at a weird angle. Surprisingly its in very good condition. I also saw that the Strike was smoking in the cockpit prior to the Lohengrin shot from Dominion. Rau did abit of dmg which I forgot about. Which is why there is only one leg and arm. After watching the SE and rewatching my ep 49 in large size and detail I still looks possible for Mwu to have survived. We're not gonna change people's opinions it seems since we all look at evidence differently and some are more open minded to these things. We just have to wait and see who the man behind the mask is. And if Mwu has once again made the impossible possible.
It's pretty funny though, if they removed the helmet because Mwu is Neo then they would spoiling their own show. That sounds pretty unreasonable...
I took a look again, the picture without the helmet looks like it has some different colors.
Looking carefully, I believe that it is a new drawing and thus rather then the helmet being removed they just didn't bother too draw it in. All of this could just be caused by someones lazieness.
Guys, guys... just to tell y'all, I am not attacking you...
but you're arguing about "angle of body" and "mask coming off" and stuff
let's wait until the show just tells us!! :lol:
Yes I've had my fair share of playing Sherlock on anime shows; hell, I'm doing that w/ the Gilbert/Rau/Rey situation....but for real, won't most of you feel dumb that you debated this and it doesn't turn out to be Mwu at all? or even if it is Mwu? I know I'd be like "ok, then, that was easy"
I know, I'm being hypocritical. Ask me about Evangelion and I'll LAUNCH into a diatribe of shit, hahaha. What I'm just saying is that this should be resolved in its own way...through the show.
Neo=Mwu:
well, aside from the basic physical resemblance, i'd also like to direct everyone's attention to Exus, the Mobile Armor he was piloting in the first few episodes, which was clearly designed to be most similar to the Mobius Zero. and, as it was said early in SEED, Mwu was the only Mobius Zero pilot to survive the battle at Grimaldi Front, thus earning him that "Hawk of Endymion" nickname. Neo would need Mwu-like piloting ability to operate what was clearly a pseudo-Mobius Zero.
the most likely explaination is, in fact, the same memory wipe used on the Extended pilots, slectively removing unneeded memories, such as his affection for Ramius and the Archangel crew as a whole, while keeping his training and piloting abilties wholly intact.
realistically, there's no justifiable reason to clutter the story with another masked character if his background story isn't completely relevant. if it wasn't Mwu, they wouldn't have him the series at all.
as for the idea of Neo being a clone of Mwu or Mwu's father, the flaw there is the issue of aging and his apparent military rank. even if the earth forces made the clone, they wouldn't make him Colonel or whatever rank he is... he'd be a low-rank grunt, just like Rey is in ZAFT.
as for the point of the nature of Strike's destruction in Ep. 49 of SEED... from a rational standpoint, let's assume that when they finished writing out the script for SEED, the never planned on doing a second series. this is evident in the existence of the "Beyond The Stars" short movie... this is anime, they do unrealistic resurrections constantly... when Strike/Aegis blew up, the profile shot of the blast made it quite clear that there was no way Kira survived, but he did. it just goes to show you they can really stretch any truth they want to bring back a fan-popular character.
here's the way it's looking to me at this point... i may be wrong, it's just theory, but i'm basing it on existing evidence...
Rey is a clone of Rau, probably created because Rau had said that he had no real identity, and in an attempt to better understand himself, he chose to raise his own clone, perhaps created without the defects evident in Rau's genetic make-up. maybe he made the clone just in case he failed in his goal (which he clearly did)...
Neo is probably Mwu, snatched up from the Strike debris by the Earth Forces and mind wiped in hopes to use a rather reputable and clearly talented Earth Forces war hero to be in command of the "Extended" special forces group, Phantom Pain, much like they had probably planned for him when they transferred him off of the Archangel to a teaching position in California, which he bailed out on because of Ramius. i think, if he encounters Ramius, much like with what transpired between Shinn and Stellar, he'll regain trace memories which will, over time, develop into full memory revival...
sound reasonable?
Ever hear the term "red herring"?
I think neo is mwu because he was way to cool to stay dead
hrm. i suppose the red herring theory is a possibility, but i tend to trust my gut on things like this, and i'm just not getting that impression. if it is, however, i think i'll be quite impressed to see that the writers pulled off that big of a scam on the viewers. hell, thinking about it right now, even though i'd really like it to be Mwu to properly wrap up all of the "love sub-plots", i'd actually be fairly pleased if it were a red herring.
I agree with the"going with your gut" when lacking absolute proof. In the end, one of us will have to retrain that "gut feeling". I hope it isn't me, I don't know how to do it.Quote:
Originally posted by: Gunslinger_BlaQ
hrm. i suppose the red herring theory is a possibility, but i tend to trust my gut on things like this, and i'm just not getting that impression. if it is, however, i think i'll be quite impressed to see that the writers pulled off that big of a scam on the viewers. hell, thinking about it right now, even though i'd really like it to be Mwu to properly wrap up all of the "love sub-plots", i'd actually be fairly pleased if it were a red herring.
IMO Sooner or later Shinn will have to realize that he needs to change; it'd be fitting if such an event were to come too late. As for Neo, it's interesting that people have constantly been referencing the scar on his face; as bad a scar as it is, why has no one referenced the scars on his body? You see them particularly when he's showering, and they're bad--really bad. Now, where did they come from?
Personally I haven't ever refered to any scars in a post, however I have wondered about those. Judgeing solely on the width of the scar along his back, I can't imagine someone surviving that kind of injury. I doubt a skin wound alone would have been that large.
I don't know much about scars, but I would think the scar would have to be quite old and have stretched as he grew.
@Gunslinger_BlaQ: Not a bad theory as far as the brainwashing view is concerned, however, I give the GS/D crew too much credit to even consider Neo being Mwu for such a reason. According to me, it's a far too easy "solution" and the most stupid kind of cliche available in the world of anime (and action entertainment as a whole). Having Mwu survive as Neo would make absolutely no one happy, considering how good his death was and how extremely simplistic and amateurish it is to just brainwash an old character.
I just don't think of the plot as that predictable.
I would have to find the episode but Mwu was shott in Gundam Seed in the shoulder (I want to say when him and Kira were on the random research colony where the each found out about there past) and that is where those scars came from if Neo is Mwu its one of the reasons why when they showed him in the beginning people immediately thought they were showing Mwu instead of Neo.Quote:
Originally posted by: xat
IMO Sooner or later Shinn will have to realize that he needs to change; it'd be fitting if such an event were to come too late. As for Neo, it's interesting that people have constantly been referencing the scar on his face; as bad a scar as it is, why has no one referenced the scars on his body? You see them particularly when he's showering, and they're bad--really bad. Now, where did they come from?
I'd say right now its about 75% likely that Neo is Mwu all evidence that has been shown points directly at that however much as Terra says it would be a massive failure on the part of the writers to do something so simple.
I completely agree.Quote:
Originally posted by: DDBen
I'd say right now its about 75% likely that Neo is Mwu all evidence that has been shown points directly at that however much as Terra says it would be a massive failure on the part of the writers to do something so simple.
it would indeed be verry simple but I stil think (and hope) that Neo is Mwu and besides most of the story so far was pretty simpleQuote:
Originally posted by: Kirakun
I completely agree.Quote:
Originally posted by: DDBen
I'd say right now its about 75% likely that Neo is Mwu all evidence that has been shown points directly at that however much as Terra says it would be a massive failure on the part of the writers to do something so simple.
I'd have posted about the scars but not many people want to see more evidence supporting Neo being Mwu. If they explain it enough similarily to Kira and Andy's escape from death I'll be content with Neo being Mwu. Its definately a twist. I also can't see how it can be so predictable if people aren't willing to believe that people would do it. Wouldn't that make it unpredictable? Thats a long time thing about calling things that way. If not here I believe I have mentioned the scars in some thread or discussion. They definately lend themselves as evidence consistant with what would happen to someone in the Strike. Thats some serious physical trauma.
Also they constantly keep referencing Mwu's saving of the AA in flashbacks if anybody hasn't noticed. Its like they want to wave it in front of us. Lets see if we can keep getting more info. For one thing you gotta give them credit for not having something official out that that spoils this.
It is predictable because even though we don't believe it is true, we are aware of the possibility and have been for most of the series. Also many of us saw the possibility on our own (whether we chose to believe it or not). What would make it unpredictable is if there were 0 clues pointing in that direction.Quote:
Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
I'd have posted about the scars but not many people want to see more evidence supporting Neo being Mwu. If they explain it enough similarily to Kira and Andy's escape from death I'll be content with Neo being Mwu. Its definately a twist. I also can't see how it can be so predictable if people aren't willing to believe that people would do it. Wouldn't that make it unpredictable? Thats a long time thing about calling things that way. If not here I believe I have mentioned the scars in some thread or discussion. They definately lend themselves as evidence consistant with what would happen to someone in the Strike. Thats some serious physical trauma.
Also they constantly keep referencing Mwu's saving of the AA in flashbacks if anybody hasn't noticed. Its like they want to wave it in front of us. Lets see if we can keep getting more info. For one thing you gotta give them credit for not having something official out that that spoils this.
So did ep 32 turn anyone else? A few friends of mine finally switched after watching that and think its Mwu. Also looks like Kira figured out it was Mwu before hand how he specifically asked Murrue to handle it. It still could be a clon thou.
I'll go with that he's mwu, that somehow survived and got amnesia or got a memory wipe and got replaced by another memory.
as a side note, he's prolly Rey's uncle [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
Nope, the only thing "confrimed" in this episode is that Neo looks just like Mwu.Quote:
Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
So did ep 32 turn anyone else? A few friends of mine finally switched after watching that and think its Mwu. Also looks like Kira figured out it was Mwu before hand how he specifically asked Murrue to handle it. It still could be a clon thou.
Yeah, what was up with Kira asking Murrue to handle it before he sliced up Neo's windam. How could he have possibly known about some important person inside the cockpit whose life was worth saving. Maybe Kira just deduced from the pilot's superior skills to regular pilots that it wud be better if the person was saved and made to convert or something.
Also: I don't think neo has Amnesia(if he is Mwu). He seems to be aware of a lot of things going on and seems quite familiar with the archangel and freedom
Keep in mind he had a custom paint job. Most soldiers like that have some degree of importance. He may have just figured they could get some useful info out of the pilot. That also reminds me of a question I need to ask in the ep 32 discussion thanks.Quote:
Originally posted by: splash
Yeah, what was up with Kira asking Murrue to handle it before he sliced up Neo's windam. How could he have possibly known about some important person inside the cockpit whose life was worth saving. Maybe Kira just deduced from the pilot's superior skills to regular pilots that it wud be better if the person was saved and made to convert or something.
Also: I don't think neo has Amnesia(if he is Mwu). He seems to be aware of a lot of things going on and seems quite familiar with the archangel and freedom
The impression that I had was that Kira had already felt Neo/Mwu's presence when Neo's Windam attacked Freedom. He must have sensed something perculiar, because he said "That Windam....... Why?"Quote:
Originally posted by: Curium
Keep in mind he had a custom paint job. Most soldiers like that have some degree of importance. He may have just figured they could get some useful info out of the pilot. That also reminds me of a question I need to ask in the ep 32 discussion thanks.Quote:
Originally posted by: splash
Yeah, what was up with Kira asking Murrue to handle it before he sliced up Neo's windam. How could he have possibly known about some important person inside the cockpit whose life was worth saving. Maybe Kira just deduced from the pilot's superior skills to regular pilots that it wud be better if the person was saved and made to convert or something.
Also: I don't think neo has Amnesia(if he is Mwu). He seems to be aware of a lot of things going on and seems quite familiar with the archangel and freedom
Therefore, Kira tried notto injure Neo when he cut up his Windam, but I must say he was really confident to ask Marrue to handle Neo before taking him down instantly.
I think its much easier then that Mwu was talking to shinn right before that and Kira likely just heard his voice and made the assumption so he took him out in order to see if he was right.Quote:
Originally posted by: Psyke
The impression that I had was that Kira had already felt Neo/Mwu's presence when Neo's Windam attacked Freedom. He must have sensed something perculiar, because he said "That Windam....... Why?"Quote:
Originally posted by: Curium
Keep in mind he had a custom paint job. Most soldiers like that have some degree of importance. He may have just figured they could get some useful info out of the pilot. That also reminds me of a question I need to ask in the ep 32 discussion thanks.Quote:
Originally posted by: splash
Yeah, what was up with Kira asking Murrue to handle it before he sliced up Neo's windam. How could he have possibly known about some important person inside the cockpit whose life was worth saving. Maybe Kira just deduced from the pilot's superior skills to regular pilots that it wud be better if the person was saved and made to convert or something.
Also: I don't think neo has Amnesia(if he is Mwu). He seems to be aware of a lot of things going on and seems quite familiar with the archangel and freedom
Therefore, Kira tried notto injure Neo when he cut up his Windam, but I must say he was really confident to ask Marrue to handle Neo before taking him down instantly.
Giving a reason why Kira tried not to hurt someone is not much of an arguement. Kira tries not to hurt anyone.Quote:
Originally posted by: Psyke
Therefore, Kira tried notto injure Neo when he cut up his Windam, but I must say he was really confident to ask Marrue to handle Neo before taking him down instantly.
I wonder what happens to Neo from now on. Will he get a new MS, and if so what will it be like. Or will he just stick to piloting an exus or mobius zero type moblie armor. Is he even gonna stay on the archangel or is he gonna somehow escape.
I don't really see how he can become a pilot again. He was responsible for too much working directly for Djbril.Quote:
Originally posted by: splash
I wonder what happens to Neo from now on. Will he get a new MS, and if so what will it be like. Or will he just stick to piloting an exus or mobius zero type moblie armor. Is he even gonna stay on the archangel or is he gonna somehow escape.
The thing is this isnt the only time Kira has gotten a strange feeling from Neo/Mwu. Earlier he was confused when he seemed to sense Neo/Mwu's presence aboard the ship during an earlier battle. Then he gets another feeling from when he fights the Windam. He can definately tell something was unique about the pilot and then I think he figured out what it was that he was sensing. Its the reason he specifically asked for Ramius to handle the situation and disabled the windam to bring it down. He could of just taken out the weapons but he specifically brought it down. He has never called out for Ramius to handle something before. He wanted her to go and check out that Windam.
We've seen Kira showing newtype like abilities for awhile now since way before in SEED when he triggered Rau's newtype ability. Then he started gaining a greater spatial awareness practically the same as Rey's maybe more so. In destiny he starts sensing the people battling in battles in space or in other places when he was staying with Lacus. Eventually getting to the point I mentioned with Sensing Neo/Mwu and then the disabling of the windam. I'll stick with Kira's intuition since its been pretty damn good so far. It may be an obvious outcome that they will put Neo as a brainwashed Mwu. But if they want to do that they can. They have enough to fit it in. They just have to explain it. I really want to see what they do when Neo/Mwu comes to and they can talk to him. I wonder what the first question they'll ask will be. And will seeing Ramius bring him back over time like Stellar did with Shinn.
Ok, first of all we should have all learned not to jump to any conclusions. There are answers to questions, and questions to answers. Everything has to make sense, right?
Right now, I haven't FULLY DECIDED yet on whether Mwu is Neo, or a clone of his. Why? coz it hasn't revealed anything regarding on his identity yet. Neo didn't say "I am Mwu" or "I am a frreakin clone".
But regarding on hunches or predictions, I feel more convinced that it is possible for Neo and Mwu to be the same person. But to be honest, I dont want it to be that way, altough it sounded a happy-ending-type of scenario. He did look like Mwu, he did sounded like Mwu, heck even his genetic structure suggests that HE IS MWU. But lets not jump into conclusions. Its safe not to decide yet.
In the meantime lets think about other possibilities, besides having a clone or brainwashed. Can it be possible that Neo is Mwu's unknown twin brother? I do remember something about him being the only son, but still who knows what his father's lifestory is. Perhaps when his dad decided to clone himself, he also whispered to the scientist to clone his son as well while he was sleeping.
heck i dunno what think..
its mwu
I think it's Mwu too...
Im afraid your right, its very likely that its Mwu, oh crap.
could mwu be an extended then? remember, kira said his memories were most likely altered.
But keep in mind that the 2 of the 3 extended pilots showed signs that they could overcome the programming. I would assume that the process would be less useful on an adult because there sense of "who they are" is stronger. With the others they started when they were very young. They would be even more likely to break the programming with a strong stimulus from their life before the programming, like seeing the woman he loved.Quote:
Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
could mwu be an extended then? remember, kira said his memories were most likely altered.
we dont know WHAT mwu is exactly.
I know what you mean kiddo. There's a lot of possibilities isn't there? I don't think he is a some kind of duplication clone, or some experemental subject. I think he really is "someone" else. Perhaps were being too much "thinkful" about this matter. For now let's just grasp the fact that he is a man named Neo Lornoke.
i thought rey was rau's son...
Quote:
Originally posted by: romancing_xaga
I know what you mean kiddo. There's a lot of possibilities isn't there? I don't think he is a some kind of duplication clone, or some experemental subject. I think he really is "someone" else. Perhaps were being too much "thinkful" about this matter. For now let's just grasp the fact that he is a man named Neo Lornoke.
A man whose physical data matches exactly to that of what they have on file aboard the AA for Mwu. Sorta rules out the possibility of it being anything other than a clone or Mwu. The problem with clones is that technically a clone unless raised under the same circumstances and meeting the same ordeals and situations in life won't turn out the same. Yet the characters Neo and Mwu have similar combat styles, similar expressions, personalities. Then there is the issues of the scars while its possible a clone could have gotten them for other reasons all over his body. Mwu currently has an explained reason for the scars. If it was a clone why didn't Mwu or anyone else for that matter really know about this high ranking EA officer. You'd think that someone with similar abilities of Mwu but of higher rank would of been put in charge of training the G pilots or atleast made an appearance in SEED or SEED mangas. Only now does he appear aboard a vessel where there is a machine that can alter a persons memories.
Right now I'm just counting the episodes till they finally just say he is Mwu to end the debate. Its already pretty much one sided.
It is possible that Neo joined the EAF either right before or after SEED ended, and then because of his amazing apptitude raised in the ranks quickly.
I figure there is still at least a 1% chance that Neo was altered by Dullindal to "be" Mwu like he did with Mia.
If he couldn't get Mia with her bigger bust size right how can Neo be physically Mwu. Physical. They did the works not just his attributes like height and everything. Blood type and genetics from the way they were talking. Hes a perfect match.
The bigger bust may have been intentional. The masses don't seem to care. As for the blood type, he may or may not have the same type to begin with, there are many options. I know it is stretching it that Dullindal would be able to go far enough to trick a genetics check, thats why I only said 1% rather then higher.Quote:
Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
If he couldn't get Mia with her bigger bust size right how can Neo be physically Mwu. Physical. They did the works not just his attributes like height and everything. Blood type and genetics from the way they were talking. Hes a perfect match.
You still then have all the other more personal traits. Scaring, voice, personality, phrases. Its just too much Mwu for it not be be Mwu in some form.
This is very relavent considering that the scar on his shoulder was from Raul shooting him when Kira and himself were on the research satalite. Raul doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would write something like that in any report he submitted and him being dead its very unlikely that they would have payed attention to such a detail while cloning him. The scars simply tell the story to me at this point I can't see Neo as anybody but Mwu.Quote:
Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
You still then have all the other more personal traits. Scaring, voice, personality, phrases. Its just too much Mwu for it not be be Mwu in some form.
Quote:
Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
Quote:
Originally posted by: romancing_xaga
I know what you mean kiddo. There's a lot of possibilities isn't there? I don't think he is a some kind of duplication clone, or some experemental subject. I think he really is "someone" else. Perhaps were being too much "thinkful" about this matter. For now let's just grasp the fact that he is a man named Neo Lornoke.
A man whose physical data matches exactly to that of what they have on file aboard the AA for Mwu. Sorta rules out the possibility of it being anything other than a clone or Mwu. The problem with clones is that technically a clone unless raised under the same circumstances and meeting the same ordeals and situations in life won't turn out the same. Yet the characters Neo and Mwu have similar combat styles, similar expressions, personalities. Then there is the issues of the scars while its possible a clone could have gotten them for other reasons all over his body. Mwu currently has an explained reason for the scars. If it was a clone why didn't Mwu or anyone else for that matter really know about this high ranking EA officer. You'd think that someone with similar abilities of Mwu but of higher rank would of been put in charge of training the G pilots or atleast made an appearance in SEED or SEED mangas. Only now does he appear aboard a vessel where there is a machine that can alter a persons memories.
Right now I'm just counting the episodes till they finally just say he is Mwu to end the debate. Its already pretty much one sided.
Not to mention, a clone would be physically different as well. Why?
Well, lets see here. Why are people who live at high altitudes better runners? Why are some people in the world shorter than others with similar genetics? Not to mention their physical data on Mwu would likely include things like bodymass/fat/muscle ratios, and other physical attributes which, while genetic, are also affected by a persons life and lifestyle.
Identical twins are genetically identical people. They are essentially 'natural' clones, and while in some cases they are very similar, a doctor would instantly know the difference. They are different on a physical level because they are, quite simply, different people.
The doctor said Neo was a perfect match. The only way that is possible is if they are the same person.
Thats me weighing in.
That may be true, but what are the chances that none of those would change in 2-3 years.Quote:
Originally posted by: MeroTZ
Not to mention their physical data on Mwu would likely include things like bodymass/fat/muscle ratios, and other physical attributes which, while genetic, are also affected by a persons life and lifestyle.
Not very high, seeing as how many physical attributes are primarily determined in your youth. I'm somewhat certain that things as simple as your height are influenced by things llike your diet as a child.Quote:
Originally posted by: Curium
That may be true, but what are the chances that none of those would change in 2-3 years.Quote:
Originally posted by: MeroTZ
Not to mention their physical data on Mwu would likely include things like bodymass/fat/muscle ratios, and other physical attributes which, while genetic, are also affected by a persons life and lifestyle.
Since his personality, and lifestyle, are most likely similar as Neo to Mwu's, these things should not have changed.
If it was a clone, they'd be far different.
Your height is determined by your genetic code, the genes derived from your parents not by what you eat MeroTZ...
Your ability to grow to your full potential depends greatly upon your diet. It's hard to make bone and muscle without adequate calcium and protein intake.Quote:
Originally posted by: LokeXero
Your height is determined by your genetic code, the genes derived from your parents not by what you eat MeroTZ...
yes but that doesnt affect how tall you gonna be, that is pre-determined by a gene and has nothing to do with diet.
Anyway back on topic, i dont think Neo is Mwu, IMO hes a Clone of Al da Flaga, who survived the burning down of the flaga mansion by rau and sustained the face cuts in the process. And until they bring out that Neo has a shoulder injury consistant with what Mwu suffered, you really cant say he is Mwu, you can presume but its isnt confirmed...
your height is partly determined by your gene...and other factor such as healthy diet...
thats true if you suffer from malnutrition you wont be able to reach your potential already established in you genentic code
Oh yes it does. Someone who was malnourished during a growth phase will be shorter (PERMANENTLY) than they would have been under ideal circumstances.Quote:
Originally posted by: LokeXero
yes but that doesnt affect how tall your gonna be, that is pre-determined by a gene and has nothing to do with diet.
Don't talk to me about genetics and what does or does not affect height, I'm a medical professional.
fine, i'll concede this issue only cause if it continues it'll bore me to death and i already have enough things on my plate...Quote:
Originally posted by: Souryusen
Oh yes it does. Someone who was malnourished during a growth phase will be shorter (PERMANENTLY) than they would have been under ideal circumstances.Quote:
Originally posted by: LokeXero
yes but that doesnt affect how tall your gonna be, that is pre-determined by a gene and has nothing to do with diet.
Don't talk to me about genetics and what does or does not affect height, I'm a medical professional.
you could use google to search on this issue =D
whether healthy diet etc could affect your growth in height
Oh, what an admirable way to admit that you are wrong!Quote:
Originally posted by: LokeXero
fine, i'll concede this issue only cause if it continues it'll bore me to death and i already have enough things on my plate...Quote:
Originally posted by: Souryusen
Oh yes it does. Someone who was malnourished during a growth phase will be shorter (PERMANENTLY) than they would have been under ideal circumstances.Quote:
Originally posted by: LokeXero
yes but that doesnt affect how tall your gonna be, that is pre-determined by a gene and has nothing to do with diet.
Don't talk to me about genetics and what does or does not affect height, I'm a medical professional.
God, the people of today...
In last episode 34, Neo did said: Why is this place again like this? And then shocked after realizing what he said... So he might be a clone but he appareantly does have original Mwu's memories hidden inside his head...
i do and at the same time do not understand why people are saying he looked shocked
i do understand in the meaning that he said such a thing after experiencing the first battle on AA since he boarded it
but i don't understand in the way that to me he doesn't look shocked, he looks away yes but he doesn't have a shocked expression on his face, or neither a "huh?" kinda sound/sentence
He wonders why this place "AA" is always shaking around and in a battle. Can be taken that since he got there its been like that. Or its that he takes it that way as its been like that even when he was there as Mwu. Its uncertain. Then after saying it thou he looks to the left making a sound like he was puzzled or just noticed something. It could be his memories returning. But its still too early to tell. Maybe in the next ep we'll get more from him.
neo = Mwu [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
have you guys ever thought that you're overthinking things?
i mean..its pretty obvious isn't it?
mwu is neo
i mean, even if he was some other dude who has his memories..
why would they give him those memories if they erased it anyways?
and if it was another dude right..he wouldn't have had all those scars all over his body?
I've answered most of these questions before. I still stand by the idea that they are trying TOO HARD to make us believe that it is Mwu. They are going to have to come out step by step for me to believe it is Mwu.Quote:
Originally posted by: john_doe_107
have you guys ever thought that you're overthinking things?
i mean..its pretty obvious isn't it?
mwu is neo
i mean, even if he was some other dude who has his memories..
why would they give him those memories if they erased it anyways?
and if it was another dude right..he wouldn't have had all those scars all over his body?
That is what I felt too. It was just too obvious, making it so I didn't believe that Neo was Mwu.
Until the very end I hoped they didn't take such a stupid and nonsensical path, but they did. Sucks really.
I liked Mwu and all but for god's sake stay dead damnit.
With all due respect, I think you are giving up too easily.Quote:
Originally posted by: Terracosmo
That is what I felt too. It was just too obvious, making it so I didn't believe that Neo was Mwu.
Until the very end I hoped they didn't take such a stupid and nonsensical path, but they did. Sucks really.
I liked Mwu and all but for god's sake stay dead damnit.
Oh, on the issue of the bridge communication code, I responded that I would think it is the same for all EAF ships and there would be no reason for AA to change theirs after they left the EAF. Guardian mentioned that why would they make a big deal out of it if it wasn't differant. I've finally thought of an answer. Murrue is convinced Neo is Mwu and she is trying to prod him into remembering.