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They seem quite interchangeable, but only the magi seem to be able to collect rukh from air and use it for magic like normal magicians use their inborn magoi. Based on this episode it seems like Magnostadt is able to collect rukh as well, even if they need some fancy constructions and magical tools for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthEnderX
I guess magic (mana) is magoi when it's inside an organism and rukh when it's freely outside.
yep. He's a familiar or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthEnderX
That would also explain his girly interests: If he was created by a female, his personality construct might have such tendencies despite the body of a man.
Episode 15 - HS
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Quite a story, and I have a feeling it was true as well. The lecture itself was such that there's no doubt it won over many of the magicians. The line about normal humans seeking power and wealth and magicians seeking knowledge was especially good. This gives the students a perfect excuse to live and pursue their interests, that is, knowledge and magical power, in the splendid environment of Magnostadt, despite the human rukh cattle in the dungeon. Humans seek their own comfort and it's easy to ignore something they have no personal attachment to. If some magician had parents or siblings down there, it might be a different thing, but I doubt many do.
Objectively speaking this is all, of course, just a reverse of the previous situation, so I doubt Aladdin (& co) will be convinced, but if nothing else, this hopefully will make them think of the alternatives. If they break the current system, will they accept the responsibility of building a better one or will they just be destroyers who will walk away leaving nothing but ruins and victims in their wake? A pretty tough situation.
In any case, this easily explains many of Magnostadt's actions; they don't care what happens to non-magicians anywhere, as long as magicians will get stronger and get to the top. So, spreading magical tools around indiscriminately is sensible as it gives powerful means of fighting to magic sensitive people even if they don't have the formal arcane knowledge and skills to defend themselves otherwise. Of course shaking the regimes of the normal people is another benefit.
I'll be really pissed off if this wasn't true history but only something cooked up by al Thamen.
I don't think al Thamen has a hand in Magnostadt, do they? I thought they were specifically backing the Kou Empire.
Mogamett said that none of the lvl5 citizens asked to leave. If they did, would it have been honoured? If that was the case then it's a fair exchange. My impressions were that they weren't though, especially how 1 criminal results in an entire sector being purged.
edit: and as good as the story was, it doesn't explain Aladdin's vision where magicians tried to destroy the unified world under Solomon.
I believe none do. If a goi is related to a magician, they are automatically Level 4 citizens or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
I found it hard not to at least understand his actions after this episode. Given the way he was treated, what he did is the logical step (for logical thinkers blinded by rage like himself).Quote:
In any case, this easily explains many of Magnostadt's actions; they don't care what happens to non-magicians anywhere, as long as magicians will get stronger and get to the top. So, spreading magical tools around indiscriminately is sensible as it gives powerful means of fighting to magic sensitive people even if they don't have the formal arcane knowledge and skills to defend themselves otherwise. Of course shaking the regimes of the normal people is another benefit.
I'll be really pissed off if this wasn't true history but only something cooked up by al Thamen.
Based on the scene where he asked about Yamuraiha, I have no reason to doubt him, and neither does Aladdin. He's telling the truth, and honestly believes this is the only way for magicians and non-magicians to peacefully co-exist and benefit each other. He's a good-hearted man who was pushed too far by grief and resentment. They were treated like slaves by greedy, self-serving cowards while the magicians were actually trying to benefit the nation as a whole. They advanced magic to keep themselves from being used up, but once a war started, the bureaucrats found another way to use them up, and used them as a scapegoat at the same time.
Do I think he used the right method by slaughtering Dunya's family? No. They could have killed off the nobility, blamed her father's death on them, and manipulated her instead using her as a figurehead. I suspect Al Thamen was involved in making the revolt so bloody, because they were so quick to pick her up afterward.
As Buff said, none of them chose to leave, even Marga. They have everything they'd want down there (except the sun) and don't have to do anything for it.
@Buff
I suspect Aladdin's vision has something to do with the magicians being manipulated to "unify the world" or something like that. Possibly by Al Thamen. They try to create some world-altering spell for the good of many but that summons an apocalyptic plague or something demonic instead. In Solomon's time they did it out of rage, similar to Mogamett's revolt, but taken too far.
edit:
It's also worth noting that the old man only produced golden ruhk. Even over the death of his daughter, he only looks forward, to a way to prevent it from happening to someone else. He has no desire to reverse the flow of time and change the past.
He also recognized Yam's teachings, and I bet it is because they are his own. He still very much cares for his second daughter, even if she strongly disagrees with his solution for co-existing with regular people. I wouldn't be surprised if she feels the same way about him, to some degree or another.
But raging against what? Were they oppressed even then? What we saw from Mogamett was the situation in his country during his time. Up until now we haven't actually seen slavery towards magicians, even though slavery is pretty rampant overall.
And since Solomon had everyone unified already, it's not like they were still scapegoats. If Al Thamen was in it though, then it's a wild card. Anything happens when they're around.
We haven't been seeing magicians in greater numbers anywhere but in Magnostadt, so it's hard to say how they are treated in general. Although not seeing them suggests they are hiding or at least not trying to stand out overly much. In his past they were as good as slaves, escorted by spearmen and forced to perform their magic until the task was completed or they dropped dead, whichever happened first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
I mean the current mages are being manipulated to repeat what occurred once before in the other world due to resentment and rage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
Aladdin is being shown the past to prevent it from happening now. Al Thamen is likely pulling the strings this time.
Yeah, his viewpoint makes sense given his personal experiences, but of course we know he's way overgeneralizing. There's obviously good people and evil magicians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryllharu
THAT at least I don't think can possibly be true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryllharu
If nobody ever wanted to leave, they wouldn't have patrols down there making headcounts and whatnot making sure nobody left. It simply wouldn't exist unless people had wanted to leave before and they wouldn't allow it.
Do you mean:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryll
1) The current mages are being manipulated (due to resentment and rage) to repeat what occurred once before in the other world.
or
2) What occurred once before in the other world was due to rage and resentment, and the current mages are being manipulated to repeat it.
Now that I break it up, I don't think it matters too much to my point (but I'd like to hear which you thought anyway). The fact that wizards defied Solomon's united world proved that Mogamett's theory about wizards seeking only knowledge is wrong.
How do you know Solomon's order was acceptable to the wizards? For all we know it might have placed all sorts of rules, regulations, limitations etc on using magic. When you think about modern fiction with magic, it's almost always like that: Either magicians are hiding or the society restricts their use of magic very strictly. Honestly, I don't know how I could live with bullshit like that if I was a magician, but at the same time it would probably be the only way to make the non-magician masses live in a grudging peace with wizards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
Besides, Al Thamen seems to employ magicians but it's certainly concerned about other things than pure knowledge. It's not like Mogamett's dreams or opinions would ever be shared by all magic users.
Well we don't, but it didn't seem like Solomon thought his own offer was too hard to accept either. His (and Aladdin's view therefore) are biased though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
Mogamett really can be so honest, straightforward and gentle after his own fashion because he doesn't consider non-magians humans anymore (or he doesn't consider magicians humans but something higher and humans are just animals). There's not a trace of doubt in him anymore. The same can't be true for the younger folks who haven't gone through what he did. Thus they won't be as genuine, and in the end they can go either way: Adopt the racist way of thinking as an ideology or they can keep doubting it. The latter people might find living in Magnostadt somewhat haunting, even if they pretended otherwise.
Titus's situation looks worse than I thought. It's clear his past was bad, but now it seems he has no future at all. I doubt Mogamett foresaw this when giving the human pet to Titus, but it couldn't have been better luck for him. It was Marga who made Titus want to defy his destiny, leading to betraying Scheherazade. Who knows what he is, in the end. Maybe he's a non-magician altered by Scheherazade to become a really powerful magician at the cost of his life? We don't really know if Scheherazade is any good, after all.
I still hope Al Thamen doesn't have too much to do with Magnostadt, at least in the form of direct influence. It would be strange if they totally ignored such a nest of magicians, but I want Magnostadt to be standing on its own.
Mogamett Is a good person, just horribly misguided. The conclusions he reached are perfectly understandable given what he's been through, but as you implied, I don't think he realizes that what he's doing in spreading his views is that he's repeating the past, just the other way around. Bureaucrats treated him, his family, and his friends like something less than human, and he's making other people do the same, without any of the context he's been through. He treats the good or selfless goi like pets, he treats the greedy ones like insects. His followers treat them all like firewood.
Scheherazade is like any other non-villain we've seen in the series. She will defend what is her own (in this case Leam) at any cost and by any means. The ends always justify the means for her, Sinbad, or the royal family of Kou (minus one bitch empress and one adorably naïve princess, both on opposite ends). If I remember right, they also speculated that Scheherazade is among the older set of Magi, unlike Judal who is young in both appearance and actual age, and Aladdin who ultimately isn't from this world but instead from the last.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraco
Aladdin seems to have found his answer to Dunya's death, his sense of unease about Mogamett, and also the answer to why his vision brought him here.
Dunya's death wasn't a personal vendetta against the royalty as she had always thought, it was Mogamett's war against everyone who oppressed him and his kind. She was just unfortunately caught in the crossfire. Had Mogamett thought more clearly, he should have saved her for a figurehead.
Mogamett doesn't seem to be the cause of Aladdin's vision either. He's good natured and has the right idea, just going about it in the one of the worst ways possible. He genuinely wants the best for the majority of people, and Magnoshtat is that method. He doesn't want vengeance anymore, he wants acceptance of magicians.
On the other hand, something is going on underneath him, and that is the cause of Aladdin's vision. I don't know how much of it Mogamett is aware of, but I doubt he's responsible. He just doesn't seem the type. I'm not sure if Irene (also see spelled Elaine) is working for Al Thamen or not, but it is clear that Al Thamen is worming their way into the upper portions of their academy and government. Al Thamen is trying to manipulate the magicians into doing something truly awful for them. If they were working together directly, they would be allied with the Kou Empress Bitch of the Universe.
The magicians haven't been given the answer to make djinn, so Al Thamen is influencing at most. Irene caught that in Aladdin's expression. What she showed the three of them is at the infancy stage, where Aladdin and the audience have seen Al Thamen's total control over the process. I'd wager Al Thamen is trying to get the magicians to create a purely artificial djinn that goes completely out of control immediately. The opposite of Al Thamen's process of using an individual's resentment to guide and control that power.
At the moment I would think that Al Thamen treats Magnostadt as some sort of R&D/experiment/2ndary country to see what they can do with Dark Ruhk, while Kou is the main country they're using and commanding to take over the world. If the world stage becomes Magnostadt vs Kou, they could possibly just take the former out in one sweep since could have better control of Dark Ruhk.
I originally thought Titus was an artificial life-form. That could be true since you can make it from Ruhk, but the foreshadowing suggests here that he's someone who us using too much magic. On the other hand though, if that's his only problem then he could just stop using magic..
It is evident from this episode that not everyone who wants to leave the 5th District can. Mogamett has made some rather favourable conditions downstairs, but he's forcing them to be there.
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edit:What vision? The only one I ever remember is him seeing Solomon unite the world and then having magicians destroy it. I don't see any reason to suspect that Mogamett caused that vision in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryll
And as for the generations of Magi, I don't think it worked the way you said. Judal, Yunan and Scheherazade were all the "official" mages of this age (Scheherazade's been supporting Leam for 200 years or something, but she's not an older generation), while Aladdin's seen as the unexplained 4th Magi.
Regarding Ruhk control, aren't Magis the one able to do so, good Magis with white Ruhk and evil ones with dark Ruhk.
Also, isn't Alibaba someone that might just be able to control both white and dark Ruhk, making him a unique and incredibly powerful being fit to be a successor to Salomon?
His vision was sparked after Dunya's death, no? He saw precursors to the world ending vision when he tried to save Dunya in the first episode. As he headed toward Magnostadt to figure out where all that hatred came from, he got the world ending vision. Aladdin knows the World Ending vision and Magnostadt are connected, and Mogamett leads all of Magnostadt. Aladdin suspected him heavily, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
I wasn't speaking generations, just ages. Yunan and Scheherazade are substantially older than Judal. There are four magi, three meant to be there. The older set is Yunan and Scheherazade. The younger set is Judal and Aladdin (an outsider). I wasn't aware anyone had confirmed Scheherazade's age yet. Just suspected. I was under the impression that she hasn't been a loli this whole time, like a certain wonderful Amber.
Yep, that's who they mean when they talk about legendary magicians.Quote:
Originally Posted by David75
I don't think so. He had 2 different types of magoi in his body, and he was having extremely poor control as a result. It was a miracle that he wasn't dead. When he resolved things at his end, Khassim's magoi became Alibaba's. Everything mixed into one pool of white magoi.Quote:
Also, isn't Alibaba someone that might just be able to control both white and dark Ruhk, making him a unique and incredibly powerful being fit to be a successor to Salomon?