Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2

Caught up with the eps.
As usual, the developments were quite unexpected.

Fun question: would Nina's bomb be able to kill a Geass Witch? After all, everything just "dissapears" into void. Or so it seems. So I was just wondering.

Regarding future developments, seeing Lelouch at the lowest of his strenght, I guess we can think he will find a way of gaining momentum again. We'll see.

I noted that phrase by Schneizel too... So Schneizel always was stronger than Lelouch but still fears him. Interresting. I guess Lelouch is a very important key to Charles plot....

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Originally Posted by Shinji Ikari

Actually the Nordic goddess was called Freja, but who cares, right? Odin is Oden, Thor is Tor... Could everyone who thinks they know something about nordic mythology stop with their halfassed info?

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ya and you should stop first because she wasn't called freja

she is/was also called Freya or Freyja...Freja is just 1 of like 20 forms....
go to wikipedia or other, similiar sides

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Regarding future developments, seeing Lelouch at the lowest of his strenght, I guess we can think he will find a way of gaining momentum again. We'll see.

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I doubt that he'll be able to do much... at least he won't be able to build something up again, I guess he will wait for the right moment to appear and avenge his beloved ones personally

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Originally Posted by David75

Fun question: would Nina's bomb be able to kill a Geass Witch? After all, everything just "disappears" into void. Or so it seems. So I was just wondering.

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Same laws as Mnemosyne?

Highlight my lovely mild-spoiler poem:
[Neither bullets to the brain,
the slicing of a vein,
nor disintegration via jet plane,
will kill, despite the pain.]

We've seen some nasty flashbacks of C.C. getting abused. Unless it sends her to a different dimension, I believe our green haired witch will be alright (sooner or later).

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Originally Posted by Shinji Ikari

Actually the Nordic goddess was called Freja, but who cares, right? Odin is Oden, Thor is Tor... Could everyone who thinks they know something about nordic mythology stop with their halfassed info?

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Nitpicking about a transliteration to English in a Japanese anime thread makes you seem really cool.

I think deithard, ougi, todou and the rest need to remember who exactly it was that saved them from public execution in the beginning of the series. If they were merely "pawns", why risk his life to save merely 5 or 6 "pawns"? I find it a bit irritating how unstable the OBK is that they would make their decision so quickly after speaking with the enemy.

Deithard isn't exactly japanese either. Who cares if Lelouch has a geass? He didn't geass everyone into hating Britannia, everyone always has, and the BK's goal is to eliminate britannia, which lelouch has been doing excellently. If I was lelouch and I got ahold of the OBK again, I would have everyone in that conference room be put in the front lines without weapons. If there were any survivors, I would have them violently raped up the butt.

Anyways, I don't think the OBK was a HUGE factor in the BK empire. We know that C.C., Kallen (who has a gundam now), xing-ke (also very powerful), and Orange-kun (who now has that super-badass-sutherland-gundam) are still loyal to Lelouch, and the only real big losses are toudou + the other two swordsmen and diethard . If those people I just mentioned managed to regroup with Lelouch, I think they would be just fine as the rest of the BK empire is probably still loyal to lelouch and views the OBK to be the real traitors. I am hoping for this to happen, as another Death Note ending would be quite unsatisfying for me.

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Originally Posted by lelouch

I think deithard, ougi, todou and the rest need to remember who exactly it was that saved them from public execution in the beginning of the series. If they were merely "pawns", why risk his life to save merely 5 or 6 "pawns"? I find it a bit irritating how unstable the OBK is that they would make their decision so quickly after speaking with the enemy.

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Actually I dont think deithard was part of the group that got rescued, but you make a valid point. Then again, even after he saved them, there were still alot of doubts on him (probably from the first black rebellion). I guess all the lies and secrets must have reached a boiling point.

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Originally Posted by lelouch

Anyways, I don't think the OBK was a HUGE factor in the BK empire. We know that C.C., Kallen (who has a gundam now), xing-ke (also very powerful), and Orange-kun (who now has that super-badass-sutherland-gundam) are still loyal to Lelouch, and the only real big losses are toudou + the other two swordsmen and diethard . If those people I just mentioned managed to regroup with Lelouch, I think they would be just fine as the rest of the BK empire is probably still loyal to lelouch and views the OBK to be the real traitors. I am hoping for this to happen, as another Death Note ending would be quite unsatisfying for me.

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You forgot that when they established the league of nations, a condition was that everybody was to relinquish their military power, with the OBK as the sole military power for hire between them. It's likely that Xing-Ke's army is officially under the banner of the OBK.

The OBK is no longer a "military power". They agreed to stand down in return for nihon. Zero is the rightful leader of the BK empire. Just because one section seceded does not mean the rest will follow. It wasn't the OBK who came up with the genius tactics to battle britannia, it was zero, therefor the empire has no reason to follow the OBK. They don't present any real value other than a small faction of force and knowledge of media production.



edit: I feel weird every time I write "BK empire". Makes me think of burger king...

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Originally Posted by lelouch

They don't present any real value other than a small faction of force and knowledge of media production.

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The OBK isn't a small military faction. What we saw in Tokyo Settlement was simply their forces which they could spare to attack it. Don't forget that they had to create a diversion in Xing Ke's command. To fool the Knight of One, they must have had to summon a massive diversion, not just an arm or leg.

Further more, the OBK is now the only martial power comparable to that of Britannia. The United Federation of Nations (the official name, I'll call it UN for short), gave up all their powers, whether by destruction or donation to the OBK when they joined, and are now useless martially. Their only power was in their unity, and when one was attacked, they would request the action of the OBK. Hence, should the OBK decide to let Britannia have it's way as long as they get Japan back, the UN is up for grabs by Britannia, and should be pretty helpless, with or without Zero.

While the core members of the OBK have turned on Zero, it doesn't mean Zero has lost full control. Remember how all the nations have given up their military? That includes the Chinese Federation. That means that the force Xing Ke commands now is actually part of the OBK. In all likelihood, they have not heard the news, and should Zero say a few words, me may still have them under his control. Xing Ke, much like Diethard, shouldn't be affected by the status of Lelouch as one of royalty, nor his special powers, or his involvement in Euphemia's incident.

In fact, the only reason Diethard turned was that he wanted to finish his masterpiece, and should he resist in a room filled with a dozen OBK, he would have been lock up.

Second OP is out!

[Nipponsei] Code Geass R2 OP2 Single - WORLD END [FLOW].zip

N.B: [Flow] was the same group that performed Colours (R1, OP1)

Based on the preview, and Kaguya's expression besides Tianzi, we will probably see a big breakup among the OBK next episode. And I do hope (but thats just me) that the scene where Kallen approaches Ougi is to slap him and leave.

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

The OBK isn't a small military faction. What we saw in Tokyo Settlement was simply their forces which they could spare to attack it. Don't forget that they had to create a diversion in Xing Ke's command. To fool the Knight of One, they must have had to summon a massive diversion, not just an arm or leg.

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Chunks of the infantry could have and probably did come from other countries of the UN.

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

Further more, the OBK is now the only martial power comparable to that of Britannia. The United Federation of Nations (the official name, I'll call it UN for short), gave up all their powers, whether by destruction or donation to the OBK when they joined, and are now useless martially. Their only power was in their unity, and when one was attacked, they would request the action of the OBK. Hence, should the OBK decide to let Britannia have it's way as long as they get Japan back, the UN is up for grabs by Britannia, and should be pretty helpless, with or without Zero.

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I think we have a mix-up. Does "OBK" stand for "Original Black Knights" as the black knight army that existed before joining with India, China, etc... ? If so, then at this point the "OBK" are quite insignificant. The bulk of the "infantry knightmares" Can come from China, India, and the rest of the UN. Japan is a very very small part of the world, and can't provide a relatively large amount of force other than gundams and generals. The only gundams that were lost were the swordsmen, and the only general lost was toudou. The UN didn't join the Black Knight Empire (BKE) for kicks and mere unity. They did it because they want Britannia taken down. The leaders of the BKE are the OBK. However, the leader of the OBK is Zero. If the OBK ceasefire in return for japan, the UN isn't just going to stand around or agree, their goal remains the same, and the person who is solely responsible for an extraordinarily large amount of success is Zero. Xing-ke could care less about japan, he wants Britannia destroyed, along with the rest of the world. Rather than the BKE/UN seeing Zero as a traitor/fraud to the OBK, they will see the OBK to be a traitor to the BKE/Zero.

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Originally Posted by lelouch

Xing-ke could care less about japan, he wants Britannia destroyed, along with the rest of the world. Rather than the BKE/UN seeing Zero as a traitor/fraud to the OBK, they will see the OBK to be a traitor to the BKE/Zero.

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Will they still think the same after learning that Zero is actually a prince of Britannia though? I wouldn't be surprised if they remove Zero from his position of power or at the very least start keeping a VERY close eye on him in the future. That is even IF he returns to the BKE/UN.

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Originally Posted by Tyreal

Will they still think the same after learning that Zero is actually a prince of Britannia though? I wouldn't be surprised if they remove Zero from his position of power or at the very least start keeping a VERY close eye on him in the future. That is even IF he returns to the BKE/UN.

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Please read my previous 3 posts, they go over this matter.

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Originally Posted by lelouch

Chunks of the infantry could have and probably did come from other countries of the UN.



I think we have a mix-up. Does "OBK" stand for "Original Black Knights" as the black knight army that existed before joining with India, China, etc... ?

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To my knowledge, the abbreviation OBK has always stood for (the) Order of the Black Knights for as long as it's been used in this thread.

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Originally Posted by lelouch

If so, then at this point the "OBK" are quite insignificant. The bulk of the "infantry knightmares" Can come from China, India, and the rest of the UN. Japan is a very very small part of the world, and can't provide a relatively large amount of force other than gundams and generals. The only gundams that were lost were the swordsmen, and the only general lost was toudou. The UN didn't join the Black Knight Empire (BKE) for kicks and mere unity. They did it because they want Britannia taken down. The leaders of the BKE are the OBK. However, the leader of the OBK is Zero. If the OBK ceasefire in return for japan, the UN isn't just going to stand around or agree, their goal remains the same, and the person who is solely responsible for an extraordinarily large amount of success is Zero. Xing-ke could care less about japan, he wants Britannia destroyed, along with the rest of the world. Rather than the BKE/UN seeing Zero as a traitor/fraud to the OBK, they will see the OBK to be a traitor to the BKE/Zero.

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Rather, I'm confused at your use of terms. Firstly, "gundam" shouldn't be in there at all. Both Sunrise, both mecha, but please don't use it.

Secondly, BKE. Is that your abbreviation for the military power (originally, and still is) called the Order of the Black Knights in this thread, or the colaboration of nations, which is called (in the anime) the United Federation of Nations?

One thing that should be noted is that the nations did not join the Black Knights as such. It's a unity of nations with the common goal of a world without oppression. Japan is one of such states/nations, not a superpower leader. Taking down Britannia was part of the intention, only because it opposed their views.

I've said this above, but I'll try to make it more clear this time. the Black Knights are the military power shared by all of the UN. It requires a majority vote to utilize them, and each nation has no power in itself.

The core members of the Black Knights are loyal to Japan, above all else. Should they betray and settle down with only Japan, the UN is left powerless. Note that this means Japan leaves the UN, taking away with it all military power.

I agree with you in that, on a global scale, the Black Knights will be seen as having betrayed the UN. However, even in that situation, that leaves Zero commanding half the world's nations with no forces, save Xing Ke's.

Furthermore, remember what they said about this battle being a "decisive one". Should the UN free Japan, all members would request and support the liberation of each other from the Britannian Empire. Should they fail, however, the UN's morale would crumble, and the nations surrender, or form an agreement with Britannia to save itself from unnecessary casualties.

Now that their leading force, the Black Knights, "form an agreement with Britannia", and agree to keep their award (Japan) and retreat (ie, leave the UN to Britannia), what position are the United Nations left in?

@buffalobiian:

I understand what you are trying to say, but you are not looking at things logically. Just because a small island from the BKE decides to secede, you honestly think all of the other countries will just say "oh well, maybe next time?". As long as the mastermind behind the entire plan is still alive and well, they will continue to fight oppression regardless of whether or not japan seceded or not. Sure the Original Black Knights are the "leaders" of the entire army, and by ordering a ceasefire the rest of the army must "legally" back down as well, but then again since when have the Black Knights done things according to the way they are "supposed to"?

I understand your point of view, but you are looking too closely at the details thereby confusing yourself. Basically you are saying "because japan no longer wishes to fight, every single other country will back down from the fight against oppression just because japan said so."

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Originally Posted by lelouch

@buffalobiian:

I understand what you are trying to say, but you are not looking at things logically. Just because a small island from the BKE decides to secede, you honestly think all of the other countries will just say "oh well, maybe next time?". As long as the mastermind behind the entire plan is still alive and well, they will continue to fight oppression regardless of whether or not japan seceded or not. Sure the Original Black Knights are the "leaders" of the entire army, and by ordering a ceasefire the rest of the army must "legally" back down as well, but then again since when have the Black Knights done things according to the way they are "supposed to"?

I understand your point of view, but you are looking too closely at the details thereby confusing yourself. Basically you are saying "because japan no longer wishes to fight, every single other country will back down from the fight against oppression just because japan said so."

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What I am saying is:

"Japan ceases to fight, and takes with it the means of other countries to fight."

Japan takes away both the morale and military might from the UN when the Black Knights decided on what they did.

The UN relinquished all military power when they joined. Should the want to break and reform their armies, it would take time. It's not Britannia's motto to "make the strong wait as the weak recover".

Secondly, I've mentioned that this battle was decisive. If Japan can be liberated, Britannia can be overthrown. If the operation fails, then the UN will crumble. Not "maybe next time", but "it just can't be done". Seeing the strong fall, or betray them is very demoralising.

And what did Japan do? It betrayed the UN to save it's ass. Again, where does that leave the UN?

(btw, I just finished editing my previous post just as you posted yours)

You are making it sound like toudou and crew are the leaders of the Black Knights. Who gives them permission to "relinquish" the black knight army as you put it. The only people who are relinquishing anything is those from japan, a very very small island, and probably not even everyone from japan. The leader of the Black Knights is Zero. It is not toudou, not diethard, nor the original crew. It is Zero and Zero only. As long as he is alive, black knight members from across the world shall follow. You are somehow getting the impersonation that toudou and the japanese are the leaders of the black knights, when in fact they are far from it.

Here's a question:

Why were they trying to kill Lelouch? If I remember correctly, Schnizel asked the Diethard and the crew to hand Lelouch over to him. Since Schnizel made no attempt to stop them from shooting Lelouch, I guess he denied Oghi's offer.

This makes me think that he'll probably pick up Lelouch in order to get reasons behind the intentions of creating the OBK.

Another thing, Lelouch's Geass might evolve. I forgot the conditions of that happening though. Does it just amplify the power, or does it actually change?

Amplification is the norm, but amplification is in itself change. It will still be an absolute obedience geass, but maybe the minor rules will be altered, such as range, effectiveness, and re-usability.

I was thinking the same thing. Schneizel clearly said that he wanted Zero to be "handed over to him", not filled with holes. I think Schneizel declined the offer to return Japan, and the Japanese idiots simply decided to kill Zero and continue their fight on their own.

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Originally Posted by lelouch

Who gives them permission to "relinquish" the black knight army as you put it.

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I never said that. What I've said was that all the nations in the UN has relinquished their military powers. In other words, they're screwed without the Black Knights. They're powerless. They're mere blocks of land for the taking. Sure they can rebuild, or reorganise their ranks, but not in time to save themselves from Britannia.

As for about Todou and the others leading the Black Knights, it's not wrong to say they, in a sense, are. (Not that I said that initially, but I am now)

All those who hold immediate power under Zero have betrayed him. Word of Zero, whether true or false, will spread in their ranks, thanks to the media manipulator Diethard.

Let's say Zero starts recruiting BK members from across the world. What would they do? Meanwhile, the elite BK members, the ones who actually hold some form of military might, tell others that Zero is a traitor. Who will the world believe? One person, who is/was the leader of their revolution, or the many people under him who claim to have evidence? Should the voice message that Zero ordered Euphie's Massacre go out, it would be over. No words from Zero will wipe the fact that he ordered to kill the very people he was fighting for.

But let's assume that Zero is as influencial as the rest of the betraying BK members. The rest of the UN would not know who to follow. They'll be in confusion and uncoordinated, like the very power they have chosen to depend upon.

A confused and uncoordinated force to a might such as Britannia is simply cannon fodder, whether it be to Knightmares firepower or Schneizel's cunning.

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

they're screwed without the Black Knights. They're powerless. They're mere blocks of land for the taking. Sure they can rebuild, or reorganise their ranks, but not in time to save themselves from Britannia.

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Who are the "black knights" you are referring to. 100 foot soldiers and a general from japan? They don't need to rebuild anything nor reorganize. Japan is a very small island with a very small population. The only reason they got so far on their own was because of a few gundams and zero's mastermind/geass.

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

As for about Todou and the others leading the Black Knights, it's not wrong to say they, in a sense, are. (Not that I said that initially, but I am now)

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No.... they aren't... Zero is the leader.

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

All those who hold immediate power under Zero have betrayed him. Word of Zero, whether true or false, will spread in their ranks, thanks to the media manipulator Diethard.

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Kallen, Jeremiah, and probably Raksha as well are the only useful members from japan (besides Todou and the other two remaining swordsmen who weren't really that helpful anyway) and they still remain loyal to Zero. I say Raksha because I doubt she cares much about Euphie. All she really seems to care about is make stronger knightmares, take down brittannia, and beat her rival the Duke/Count or whatever he was.

All other members who hold immediate power are not from japan, such as xing-ke who also probably could care less about Euphie, and even if he did, he still has the intelectual capability to first ask Zero for his reasons.

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

Let's say Zero starts recruiting BK members from across the world. What would they do?

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Zero doesn't need to recruit anybody... He has half the world following him.

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

Meanwhile, the elite BK members, the ones who actually hold some form of military might, tell others that Zero is a traitor.

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What elite BK members? Todou, 2 swordsmen, and a camera man?

What military might? 100-300 foot soldiers?

Zero is a traitor? So he's surrendering his army to reclaim his own country not caring about the rest of the world?

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

Who will the world believe? One person, who is/was the leader of their revolution, or the many people under him who claim to have evidence?

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It is irrelevant who they "believe". They will follow the person who has performed many miracles and is very capable AND willing to take down brittania and fight oppression. I very much doubt they will follow cowards who betray the entire BKE to have their own country back, not caring what happens to the rest of the world.

Evidence of what? Geass? All the better, zero has an ability which gives the BKE a large advantage. Who cares if he can turn on/brainwash them in the future? They know that they want brittannia taken down, and Zero is the only one who can help them do it.

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

Should the voice message that Zero ordered Euphie's Massacre go out, it would be over. No words from Zero will wipe the fact that he ordered to kill the very people he was fighting for.

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Most of the world does not care much about Euphie... And again, many have the intelect to listen to Zero's side of the story rather than Britannia's which is obviously propaganda. I doubt the entire world will give up their fight for freedom and take out the only man capable of leading them because he killed a little princess and a few japanese.

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

But let's assume that Zero is as influencial as the rest of the betraying BK members. The rest of the UN would not know who to follow. They'll be in confusion and uncoordinated, like the very power they have chosen to depend upon.

A confused and uncoordinated force to a might such as Britannia is simply cannon fodder, whether it be to Knightmares firepower or Schneizel's cunning.

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They would not be confused or uncoordinated. They would follow whoever can lead them to victory. The other party offering to surrender makes it even easier to choose Zero.

As far as coordination, zero helped kallen and some wanna-be terrorists take out a large fleet of advanced-at-the-time knightmare frames within minutes. Coordination will not be a problem.

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Originally Posted by lelouch

Who are the "black knights" you are referring to. 100 foot soldiers and a general from japan? They don't need to rebuild anything nor reorganize.

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There are two forces. Those who fight for Britannia, and those who fight for the UN. The rest are obselete. See all the forces that are fighting for the UN? They're the Black Knights. Whether they are Chinese knightmares or whatever, they belong to the Black Knights. Why? Use logic. There is only one force representing the UN. The Black Knights are not just the Japanese terrorists they once were. They are the entire force the UN has to offer.

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Originally Posted by lelouch

No.... they aren't... Zero is the leader........Zero doesn't need to recruit anybody... He has half the world following him.....etc

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Take this example: The teaching staff at a school collects evidence and points out that the Principal is corrupted and abuses his rights. They kick him out. The principal tries to explain and deny his charges. How does the rest of the school and local community react? (Don't give me an answer. It's just a thought scenario. Any more would be off topic)

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Originally Posted by lelouch

Kallen, Jeremiah, and probably Raksha as well are the only useful members from japan (besides Todou and the other two remaining swordsmen who weren't really that helpful anyway) and they still remain loyal to Zero.

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That makes 3. I won't argue about members' usefulness. It's simply not the point.

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Originally Posted by lelouch

Zero is a traitor?

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According to the majority he is.

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Originally Posted by lelouch

...stuff about people not caring about Euphie...

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The Euphie case portrays Zero as one whose actions are not exclusively for the benefit of those he leads. It has nothing to do with the princess.




I'll sum up my argument here:




"The Order of the Black Knights, by definition, are the United Federation of Nations' only force. Without them, they have no military prowess. The Order of the Black Knights do not soley consist of a few soldiers and their commanders.

Zero will not have his Black Knights.

If the UN believes the Black Knights' story, they will fall.

If the UN believes Zero's story, they will have a king with a diminished force. Zero's mind will not turn the tables through military conquest. They will fall.

If the UN argues about what to do, Britannia will strike. They will fall."




Conclusion: Zero will not be the same powerful man he was two episodes ago. He may triumph, but not in the same way he intended, which is to crush Britannia through winning territory. The UN will either be a powerless mob or a powerless brain.




I'm done here, unless something else comes up.

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Who are the "black knights" you are referring to. 100 foot soldiers and a general from japan? They don't need to rebuild anything nor reorganize. Japan is a very small island with a very small population. The only reason they got so far on their own was because of a few gundams and zero's mastermind/geass.

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There are little need for "foot soldiers" in the Order of the Black Knights. The only time I actually saw "foot soldiers" were those who first appeared in the debut at the hotel, and those who actually guarded the Chinese Federation embassy. There is more priority for KnightMare pilots and internal operations type of work. I don't know what you consider a "small population", but if Zero had managed to gather one million people to be exiled to the United States of Japan in such a short amount of time, it makes me doubt your idea of a "small population". A one-million people army and workers is enough to do some damage as a "terrorist" organization.

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No.... they aren't... Zero is the leader.

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Zero is indeed their leader, but it does not relatively make sense how one person can coordinate millions of people for the operations of absolutely everything. How about we take today's President of the United States, strip him of all his secretaries, aides, and ambassadors, and then tell him to take over the tasks of everyone in the organization?

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Kallen, Jeremiah, and probably Raksha as well are the only useful members from japan (besides Todou and the other two remaining swordsmen who weren't really that helpful anyway) and they still remain loyal to Zero. I say Raksha because I doubt she cares much about Euphie. All she really seems to care about is make stronger knightmares, take down brittannia, and beat her rival the Duke/Count or whatever he was.

All other members who hold immediate power are not from japan, such as xing-ke who also probably could care less about Euphie, and even if he did, he still has the intelectual capability to first ask Zero for his reasons.

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You're forgetting that Todou and his division of the Black Knights have major contributions to the organization. If Toudou leaves, so goes most of the former members of the (nationalistic) Japan Liberation Front.

Put yourself in Xing-Ke's position, without extensive knowledge to Euphie's massacre. Then, you find out from Zero's closest allies that Zero was responsible for the massacre for the people he's fighting for. Xing-Ke is rather chivalrous - just as Suzaku with high moral ground. When Zero had betrayed him by abducting the Tianzi, he was flushed with anger, for his [Zero] dirty and sly tricks. It should also be the same as applied there to the massacre.

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Zero doesn't need to recruit anybody... He has half the world following him.

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No, he doesn't. The reason as Buffalobiian said, was for oppression against Britannian colonialism and/or imperialism. They just had a recent agreement to join in a collective force to oppose Britannia, but need some assurance whether they are able to or not. The prime stage was set on Japan. If Japan could be liberated, then any country would be able to be liberated as well. Now with the internal rebellions inside the organization, they would lose confidence in the Order of the Black Knights, and pull out of the UN.

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What elite BK members? Todou, 2 swordsmen, and a camera man?

What military might? 100-300 foot soldiers?

Zero is a traitor? So he's surrendering his army to reclaim his own country not caring about the rest of the world?

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Aforementioned about Toudou above again. Diethardt is VERY important in the organization. He and his division of the organization are basically hackers of broadcasting. Without media attention and propaganda, how do you expect an organization to flourish and continue its hold on its own members? Strong example of this is by Goebbels, the propaganda minister of the NAZI's in the 1930-1940's. Look how strong he held together Nazi Germany together. Censorship and propaganda is very effective, proven by modern society; changes the way we think about an event or an idea.

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It is irrelevant who they "believe". They will follow the person who has performed many miracles and is very capable AND willing to take down brittania and fight oppression. I very much doubt they will follow cowards who betray the entire BKE to have their own country back, not caring what happens to the rest of the world.

Evidence of what? Geass? All the better, zero has an ability which gives the BKE a large advantage. Who cares if he can turn on/brainwash them in the future? They know that they want brittannia taken down, and Zero is the only one who can help them do it.

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Once it's been revealed that Zero is actually the son of Charles, it's all over for Lelouch. Pictures of him when he was young, the pictures of him in the academy, and the pictures of the secret "laboratory" hidden in the academy, and the fact that Lelouch is missing when big OBK organizations are occuring might be enough proof otherwise. You're also being very ignorant about the fact of fear of the supernatural. In the eyes of ordinary politicians, or even citizens - would you want to work or be lead by a person who can mind control you? Just look at Tamaki when he learned that Zero could have been mind controlling him the whole time.

Quote:

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Most of the world does not care much about Euphie... And again, many have the intelect to listen to Zero's side of the story rather than Britannia's which is obviously propaganda. I doubt the entire world will give up their fight for freedom and take out the only man capable of leading them because he killed a little princess and a few japanese.

---

Yes, the people around the world do care. If there's an event of genocide in any part of the world, who wouldn't worry? You're forgetting the importance of high positions here. If you were the leader of a country, and one of your diplomats got killed, you would certainly give a damn about it(especially if they were your own family). You're clearly forgetting a very important fact that Britannia is a POWERFUL FASCIST empire - militaristic just as that of any dictatorship government. They rule with an iron fist, especially with the propaganda and censored news.

Quote:

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They would not be confused or uncoordinated. They would follow whoever can lead them to victory. The other party offering to surrender makes it even easier to choose Zero.

As far as coordination, zero helped kallen and some wanna-be terrorists take out a large fleet of advanced-at-the-time knightmare frames within minutes. Coordination will not be a problem.

---

Coordination is hard now. Zero's identity has been revealed, and Lelouch now, has absolutely no security. No country will want to take in a ringleader of a terrorist group, who has been revealed to be a hypocritical, and a dangerous phoney (except maybe Australia).


lelouch, your arguments are valid, but you base too much on assumption and rely too heavily on Lelouch. If Lelouch couldn't handle leading the entire organization solely by himself or stopping his organization's own internal conspiracies and affairs then how do you expect him to lead a coalition of countries by himself?

Plus, your new abbreviations (OBK - Original Black Knights, BKE - Black Knight Empire) are too confusing, as the original abbreviation for OBK is the Order of the Black Knights, and there was no indication of any "Black Knight Empire", for it is the UN, a semi-supranational organization who have not given up any sovereignty, but to simply devote their military towards the UN to fight against Britannia.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

I'm done here, unless something else comes up.

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You guessed it. Something did in fact come up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gg fansubs

Geass Dropped

It doesn't get much clearer than that. We are not subbing it any more, and will not pick it back up no matter how much you fags bitch or whine. We are doing this for a number of reasons, most of which involve us getting tired of the series and everything about it. It is shit. It wasn't good for anything but trainwreck value to begin with, but it's taken that too far recently and we no longer want to have our name associated with it to the point of preferring to be labelled as a group that drops shows. Also, we're tired of the retarded fanbase.

This is dead serious - unlike with certain shitty subs groups, you won't find a "YHBT" message in our staff page, or anywhere else for that matter. Fuck off and download Eclipse's subs.

---

Original Message



Thoughts? I've been watching Eclipse all this time, but the news still bares some weight.

Well, I would be inclined to believe them about it. The series has been on a bit of a downturn, and gg has always been a volatile group (they broke up before and came back at least partially because of R2). The series has been on a bit of a downturn lately, switching more to the Generic Sunrise Formula (tm).

However, I do not believe it has anything to do with licensing. Eclipse of all groups dropped Slayers after getting a C&D letter from Funi, along with the other quality groups doing it.

As for thoughts? Expect the larger retards to stay in #gg until they figure it out, and expect a lot more retards in #Eclipse on Sundays. Compared to Macross, there's plenty of reason to drop it if they lose interest.

I've been watching the raws, so I don't really care, but I'm surprised they bashed Code Geass this much just because they want to drop it. I really wonder what is "not shit" for the gg people if this series is.

About the OBK thing, it is really simple.

1)The Order of the Black Knights is the sole military power of the UN (or whatever it is called). This means that all military forces are technically the OBK.

2) Toudou, Ougi and the rest that betrayed Zero represented its leadership before, with Zero at the top. But this does not mean that their betrayal will be accepted by the entire group because...

3) The rest of the Order of the Black Knights (Xing Ke etc) joined because of Zero, not because of these Japanese yahoos.

4) 2 and 3 are the opposing factors that will eventually decide if anyone will follow Zero after this. The rest is just extra consideration, and probably will not affect the outcome in any major way, except of course, if the OBK really did sell Zero out to Schneizel to regain their country, which means that they are the traitors to the UN.

I'm still not expecting those Japanese yahoos to make such a deal and abandon the UN. That would go heavily against logic. They might try to sell Zero, for sure, for a good price like Japan, but that doesn't mean they would suddenly leave the UN. Because it makes zero sense (no pun here). If they leave the UN and thus the UN would get crippled, Britannia would crush the other nations and then come back to Japan and crush the BK lingering there, alone. So what if there was some deal? What are they going to do? Sue the Emperor?

It would be a victory, after a fashion, for the UN if Japan was reclaimed with a deal. After that they could concentrate their forces on some other fronts. War does not miss one man, the saying goes. Sure, Zero was behind all this originally, but I doubt the other UN leaders would simply surrender to Britannia if Zero disappeared.

Well, Ougi clearly demanded the exchange, I doubt Ougi is crafty enough to make a tactical and politically advantageous decision in this case. He probably thought the entire OBK thing was a farce and wants to end it all by trading it off with Japan's liberation.

The UN definitely will not surrender, but that is not the issue here. The question is whether the remaining forces in the OBK excluding those under the command of the traitors would still remain with OBK, or view their acts as traitorous. I don't think Xing Ke (and those under his command) is willing to work under anyone other than Zero.

Nah. Xing Ke is a soldier. If Zero's knightmare had been blown out of the sky, he would have continued the fight. I'm not sure how solid plans they have made in case Zero gets killed or captured by you don't really base a war of survival on the existence of one man. I'm not saying Ougi's betrayal wouldn't make things harder for the UN, though. Nobody wants to work with traitors because the next thing you know they sell you to the enemy as well. But while Ougi might be stupid enough to assume Britannia's word is worth something, I'm quite sure there are people in the BK who would tell him clearly enough they aren't safe as long as Britannia exists at all. Besides, Ougi might get kicked out anyway, considering how close he is to Viletta. And he might even want to retire, himself.

To me the key is just:
How important is Zero compared to his lieutenants for the Japanese and the Black Knights.

To me for Japanese and average Black Knigts, there's only Zero who matters.

After all to them where's the difference beetween fake data and truth?
Even if some high rank black knights tell them Zero is a traitor, a britanian prince or whatever, I'm pretty sure they would not believe or even don't care. Zero is a symbol, a reason to go on fighting, they don't care who he is and what he does.
Anyone with proper charisma, clever, good at tactics could replace Lelouch under the mask.... that would not change anything provided the fight goes on and gives significant results...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

Well, I would be inclined to believe them about it. The series has been on a bit of a downturn, and gg has always been a volatile group (they broke up before and came back at least partially because of R2). The series has been on a bit of a downturn lately, switching more to the Generic Sunrise Formula (tm).

However, I do not believe it has anything to do with licensing. Eclipse of all groups dropped Slayers after getting a C&D letter from Funi, along with the other quality groups doing it.

As for thoughts? Expect the larger retards to stay in #gg until they figure it out, and expect a lot more retards in #Eclipse on Sundays. Compared to Macross, there's plenty of reason to drop it if they lose interest.

---

Dunno about it.
After the supposed drop, the irc chan changed its title for the release of the first R2 Picture Drama encoded from Blu-Ray.

i have this to say:

Season 2 has continued a rather excellent anime, even with some terrible plot conveniencnes and unimagineable changes

Rolo was a good character, even if he was the standard 'child assassin who always longed to be loved' archtype.

Schneizel is awesome. He has no Geass, doesn't even know much about it, and still manages to make most people dance on his palm because he has the good grace to leave them the life to dance rather than crush them like insects between his fingers (aka, the man is merciful to a fault, but still the best person in the entire show)

Suzaku is a good guy, and you all suck cock (the bad kind) for hating on him so much.

Lelouch should die in the last episode. This, of course, is what I want, and is only imagineable via the collective IMPOSSIBLE that is the desire to sell more model kits.

I wish every single Knight of Rounds character that isn't Suzaku never existed. Every single one of them. Complete waste of time, energy, and attention, all to sell model kits. They add nothing except revenue to Sunrise's commercial branch, and are like a rapist taking a leak in our eyesockets.

This show might be one of the best in recent history. It's got terrible plot convenience, characters that make no sense at times (see Ohgi post R2 episode 11, Kallen post episode R2 8), and it wants us to buy model kits, but, well, it's still awesome.

Diethard is still the man. Just you wait and see.

Suzaku is also the man. He's like Kallen, without the tits, and with a hundred times the loyalty and potential.

Rolo was the man, but he was introduced halfway, thus his ass is gay cannon fodder, according to the ways of CLAMP.

I'll be providing a blow by blow from here on out. I could care less if any of you actuall read it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by masamuneehs

Suzaku is also the man. He's like Kallen, without the tits, and with a hundred times the loyalty and potential.

---

We haven't yet seen Kallen betray anybody. Suzaku, however, will betray anyone if he believes it's for some ambigious greater good that is defined best by his own august self. I don't know about the potential. Suzaku has usually had a bit better machine to fight with, with the exception of the last fight, so it's hard to say who's the better one, or who has more potential. But I suppose Suzaku might have more wits, which is also why he has a hundred times less loyalty.

Yes... Maybe Lelouch and Suzaku dies... Then Kallen takes care of CC and they fall in love.

Wonder what surprise we'll get this time.

[Nipponsei] Code Geass R2 Sound Episode 2.zip

[Nightspeed] Code Geass - Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 - 20 [H 264 1280x720 AAC][7D56A41E] mkv 351Mb @ Mininova

This is not GG nor Eclipse, but that will do the trick for the time being.

Enjoy!

well, i've been waiting for a release...

watched the broadcast. missed quite a bit (the first half), but thought that, goddamn, Schneizel is such a sexy brilliant bastard. He's gone from doing front line bitch work to throwing a coup d'etat. That's character progression!

Also, seeing the Emperor stew makes me wonder what the hell they're going to do for the next couple of episodes. Oh, and Suzaku was badass, again.

I do not think Schneizel has got the edge yet. He even not feel himself up to the task of being the emperor. But by claiming -and for the moment that's only what he does- he's ploting a coup d'état, in a way he thinks he can prevent a real one. True there's Suzaku he left going, but I guess he knows Suzaku can't kill the emperor for many reasons including the presence of the current Knight of One.

So Lelouch plans on isolating himself from the world and taking Charles with him, for eternity? I hope he didn't forget the chess board, they could try to play every possible game for a start. That's a lot, but with eternity you have time.
Oh wait, but they'll die from dehydratation first... well Lelouch only if Charles can not die.

But didn't I think that the place they are is in their minds? Yes probably. So that means that the bombing of the doors is useless. Charles can be extracted anytime.
Even if it was an actual place, the empire still knows what to do to get there, so they only need the will to do what necessary for that.
Oh, and there's not just one way of getting there, Lelouch apparently only destroyed one.
So no matter how you look at it, no they are not trapped somewhere they can't escape or no one can extract them from...

then there's the marianne inside anya thing. I do not buy it, in a way I understand GG on that particular plot twist.

Regarding the head of the BK betting on Lelouch's actual death, it's quite dangerous, because should Lelouch come back as Zero...

Anyway, we'll see next time.

The bet they did was risky but not foolish. Diethard explained it all. The danger there lies more on the chance that other OBK members (Xing Ke, Kaguya) finding out about the lie, which I believe they already did.

Lelouch and the emperor are obviously not trapped forever, since the series won't progress if that were the case. There still needs to be a Lelouch and C.C. reunion, and knowing Sunrise, maybe even a Lelouch and Nunnally one. I personally think that they are trapped in an actual "place" inside the door, but possibilities of escape should not be that difficult to come up with.

The Marianne inside Anya thing is not that far-fetched. A number of people already commented so before, and I personally considered it too. They will probably provide a more detailed explanation later as to how it is possible. I am betting it has something to do with Marianne's geass, like a mind transfer or something.

I realize now that Lelouch is capable of killing the emperor if he gains mastery of his geass. I hope that is what happens, or maybe Marianne can handle that role.

I am so happy Suzaku got his ass handed to him twice in such a short time.

Kallen's actions were so half-assed that they were stupid. If she was going to pretend, she should do it properly (not defending Zero in such an unconvincing manner is one), unless she is sincerely interacting with a bunch of traitors in such a manner, which is even more stupid.

EDIT: And I can't believe I didn't mention this before the edit...

C.C. IS BACK!
C.C. IS BACK!
C.C. IS BACK!

I knew she would be, but C.C. IS BACK, in all her haughty, dry, and tsundere sexy glory!

Code Geass 20 by GG

I thought they wanted to drop it? did you alrdy download it?

That was a troll. The GG website has been full of trolls since R2 began.
Yes, I've already downloaded and watched it.

Just don't feel like commenting.

What could Nuke the Anime Industry ?

CC going Bankai and killing Vicious ? Noooo

Ugh, this episode left me unsatisfied for so many reasons. All of it was "Oh, and by the way...."

The whole mystery about Anya, and the lingering presence of Marianne the entire season? I wonder how the storyboarding meeting behind this one went. How about we just clean all of the extraneous side plots all at once by making them the same thing! There was no lead up of any kind. It's just..."Oh, and btw, Anya is Marianne."

Sure, several of us suspected Anya had a connection to Marianne, but this one is just a bit too abrupt. All that lead up with Anya the whole damn season, and with Marianne ever since Euphie went berserker, and it boils down to an "Oh, by the way...." moment?!?

Then for another one, we have Cornelia going, "You know what Viletta, things have been a bit hectic, and ya know, I think we'll just decided to cut off your storyline here. Absolved of guilt, don't even bother with Hail Mary's, just go do whatever with that loser Ogi, we don't care. Oh, and by the way...rank doesn't mean as much as you are putting on it."

Schneizel delivers another one. "I'm glad we have been making peace with the OBK, and good for you Suzaku, you seem to know what you want to do. Oh, and by the way, maybe I am not really motivated to do so, but I might as well become the emperor."


The only thing that partially saved this episode was C.C. returning for Cheese-kun before taking off with Anya/Marianne and the development of Suzaku...with one caveat.

Suzaku's little speech in the crater and the nasty lines he gave to Nina (shocking her once again with how stupid she was to NOT KNOW this it would work that way). At least Suzaku finally realized what a monster he has become, and is better off just carrying the whole thing to completion.

But...why in God's name did he bring a sword? He chased after Lelouch with a gun. He's shot people in the face with guns, destroyed turrets with kicks and done all sorts of other nifty things. But we have never seen him use a sword. It's pretty obvious he sucks with them, because with his natural athleticism we've seen two seasons of, he can't compare to the Knight of One. Bring a gun you moron! Knight of One pops out, does a little sword flourish....shoot him in the head. Just like Raiders of the Lost Ark, how hard is that?


I guess there is a reason a lot of this seems chopped together.
Not Quite as Planned [link found via RandomC]

A big ?_? from me.

Cornelia's storyline was utterly useless. But I did suspect earlier Anya had some sorta connection with Marianne. Though it was something a little out there like, Anya's a clone of Marianne or something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

But...why in God's name did he bring a sword? He chased after Lelouch with a gun. He's shot people in the face with guns, destroyed turrets with kicks and done all sorts of other nifty things. But we have never seen him use a sword. It's pretty obvious he sucks with them, because with his natural athleticism we've seen two seasons of, he can't compare to the Knight of One. Bring a gun you moron! Knight of One pops out, does a little sword flourish....shoot him in the head. Just like Raiders of the Lost Ark, how hard is that?

I guess there is a reason a lot of this seems chopped together.
Not Quite as Planned [link found via RandomC]

---

Guns are sooooo last season. The sword probably transforms into that "Lancelot Albion" they were talking about, he just hasn't unlocked THE POWER WITHIN.

Schneizel reminds me a little of Lelouch. He seems like he's doing these things for the sake of justice, but underneath the guise is a power hungry eccentric.

(edit: its an interesting link btw, makes sense why this season seems a little more...erratic)

I am surprised that with the way you check everything to the last frame you missed something vital Ryll.

How the hell can you say 'Annya is Marianne' when Annya's eyes were geassed all the time 'Marianne' spoke? Its obvious Marianne's Geass was a mind transfer, and before dieing she transferred her mind into Annya. Even CC said Marianne had cheated... cheated her way out of death by existing within someone else.

Annya previously stated she did not remember many things... so my guess is that apart from Marianne's geass, she was geassed by the emperor to make her forget things... dunno... maybe she was also a child of Marianne? This last paragraph is pure especulation, but the previous one is most probably the truth. Annya IS NOT Marianne.

Apart from all that, I do felt the episode was lacking. At least Xingke and Kaguya seems to not truly believe the fat lie Ougi told them.

Quote:

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Guns are sooooo last season. The sword probably transforms into that "Lancelot Albion" they were talking about, he just hasn't unlocked THE POWER WITHIN.

---

I've got a better one:

Clearly, since Marianne has shown nearly no interest in saving her own son, she is obviously more aware of everything going on. Obviously, she has been training Nunnally in secret all these years in piloting Knightmares. So, Nunnally, who was never really blind, just really good at faking it, will show up in the Ganymede Tallgease MK-BlizUrd (1/32 scale model coming soon to a hobby shop near you!) to save Lelouch.

You forgot that Nunnally also has a Geass that gives her the power of being totally badass.

Nunnally's geass makes other people blind.

Epic-version released?

Also, having myself spoiled, wtf, Nunally´s alive -___________-

Whatever....as long as C2 is back, all is right in the world of Geass.

Eclipse - Episode 19 h264
Eclipse - Episode 19 XviD

Watching Suzaku get bitched by Bismarck was great. Apparently Bismarck is hiding a geass under his stitched eye? Marianne becoming Anya was pretty random but it has something to do with the geass she mentioned when talking to C.C. When Marianne talks through Anya, you see Anya's eyes have the red rim surrounding them that indicate she's under the effects of geass.

Now to address Ryllharu's rant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

Ugh, this episode left me unsatisfied for so many reasons. All of it was "Oh, and by the way...."

The whole mystery about Anya, and the lingering presence of Marianne the entire season? I wonder how the storyboarding meeting behind this one went. How about we just clean all of the extraneous side plots all at once by making them the same thing! There was no lead up of any kind. It's just..."Oh, and btw, Anya is Marianne."

Sure, several of us suspected Anya had a connection to Marianne, but this one is just a bit too abrupt. All that lead up with Anya the whole damn season, and with Marianne ever since Euphie went berserker, and it boils down to an "Oh, by the way...." moment?!?

---

It wasn't as much as an "Oh by the way..." moment as it's the anime coming to a conclusion and it was about time Marianne revealed herself.

Then for another one, we have Cornelia going, "You know what Viletta, things have been a bit hectic, and ya know, I think we'll just decided to cut off your storyline here. Absolved of guilt, don't even bother with Hail Mary's, just go do whatever with that loser Ogi, we don't care. Oh, and by the way...rank doesn't mean as much as you are putting on it."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

Schneizel delivers another one. "I'm glad we have been making peace with the OBK, and good for you Suzaku, you seem to know what you want to do. Oh, and by the way, maybe I am not really motivated to do so, but I might as well become the emperor."

---

Wasn't it obvious to everyone that Schneizel had intentions of seizing the throne? He plays the part of the idealistic man who hates war and reaches out to everybody's good side and tells them what they want to hear, however, the entire time, Schneizel has been researching what Charles is up to in order to be able to challenge him on a level ground, that was Schneizel's story for the past 2 seasons. He may have expressed to the audience (IE Gino, Llyod, Cecil and etc.) that he is going to take the throne in order to strip an unworthy man of power and bring justice to the world, but in actuality, it's been his ambition all along.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

The only thing that partially saved this episode was C.C. returning for Cheese-kun before taking off with Anya/Marianne and the development of Suzaku...with one caveat.

---

Yes that was awesome.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

Suzaku's little speech in the crater and the nasty lines he gave to Nina (shocking her once again with how stupid she was to NOT KNOW this it would work that way). At least Suzaku finally realized what a monster he has become, and is better off just carrying the whole thing to completion.

---

The anime needed a strong villain for a final battle. The battle of wits is going on between Lelouch and Charles, meanwhile, Kallen and everybody else will fight Suzaku in a battle of power (knightmares) or else this show wouldn't have a flashy conclusion. There needs to be a giant wtf-tastic Knightmare battle, especially with them hyping Lancelot Alberon. Also, Lloyd refusing to give Suzaku the Lancelot was great. Lloyd is a very underplayed character, he is aware of everything and just plays the idiot. For example, him telling Nina she'd either have to give up science or give up her conscience (although that's pretty obvious when you're fucking developing a nuclear warhead) and him knowing Suzaku's not right in the head at the moment and giving him Lancelot Alberon would be insane.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

But...why in God's name did he bring a sword? He chased after Lelouch with a gun. He's shot people in the face with guns, destroyed turrets with kicks and done all sorts of other nifty things. But we have never seen him use a sword. It's pretty obvious he sucks with them, because with his natural athleticism we've seen two seasons of, he can't compare to the Knight of One. Bring a gun you moron! Knight of One pops out, does a little sword flourish....shoot him in the head. Just like Raiders of the Lost Ark, how hard is that?

---

Sword fights > Gun fights. Also anybody else find it funny Bismarck carries a miniature version of the sword his Knightmare has? :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

I guess there is a reason a lot of this seems chopped together.
Not Quite as Planned [link found via RandomC]

---

That was certainly interesting...yet not very surprising. Geass is still entertaining to me and definitely worth watching but a lot of it seems to be a crapshoot and the writers just going with "What will make our readers have the biggest shock/surprised reaction?" and then going with it. I'm interested in who's working with Marianne...(she asks C.C. "Are you still on our side?")

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChaosK

It wasn't as much as an "Oh by the way..." moment as it's the anime coming to a conclusion and it was about time Marianne revealed herself.

---

I can concede a few of my other rant points, but this one was by far the biggest problem.

Yes, I agree that it was well beyond time Marianne's role in all this was finally addressed, but the way they went about it was beyond poor.

Do they address whether Anya coming into contact was Marianne attempting to assert her personality? Nope. They really do come across as an, "Oh by the way," moment by showing Marianne declaring herself and then immediately going off to do whatever she and C.C. are up to.

It's called poor pacing.

Anya has had very little screen time overall, and very little development. While that would normally be fine if, like C.C., Marianne was Anya from the very beginning and hiding her true personality. But from what C.C. explained about the possession of Anya being Marianne's Geass, and moreover violating that contract, it changes who Anya is. Anya becomes a victim, forcably possessed by Marianne. The proof of course being all of Anya's aforementioned memory gaps, and her confused gravitation towards Lelouch.

But we can't really be sympathetic towards Anya like we could say, Shirley. Anya had only that development. We know nothing else about her other than the no-longer-mysterious seizures she was getting.

So, I think it very much is an "Oh by the way" as a result of poor pacing. There was never any time to develop Anya's character, or slowly work in seizures and gaps she was having. Maybe show her acting a little different around people when Marianne's personality asserts itself. Marianne is after all, "a great actress," according to our favorite witch. It might have been a little obvious what was going on if we caught sight of Anya's red-limned, geass-ensorced eyes, but then we'd be able to speculate like crazy if it was Lelouch who did it to her, the Emperor, or someone else we didn't know. Instead, we just got two seizures that no other characters mentioned or noticed. No inquries, no questions, and when she does it a third time..."Oh by the way, I'm Marianne now."

They just skip over everything to cover up for all the time wasted on worthless filler added to make every episode end on a cliffhanger.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

Ugh, this episode left me unsatisfied for so many reasons. All of it was "Oh, and by the way...."

The whole mystery about Anya, and the lingering presence of Marianne the entire season? I wonder how the storyboarding meeting behind this one went. How about we just clean all of the extraneous side plots all at once by making them the same thing! There was no lead up of any kind. It's just..."Oh, and btw, Anya is Marianne."

Sure, several of us suspected Anya had a connection to Marianne, but this one is just a bit too abrupt. All that lead up with Anya the whole damn season, and with Marianne ever since Euphie went berserker, and it boils down to an "Oh, by the way...." moment?!?

Then for another one, we have Cornelia going, "You know what Viletta, things have been a bit hectic, and ya know, I think we'll just decided to cut off your storyline here. Absolved of guilt, don't even bother with Hail Mary's, just go do whatever with that loser Ogi, we don't care. Oh, and by the way...rank doesn't mean as much as you are putting on it."

Schneizel delivers another one. "I'm glad we have been making peace with the OBK, and good for you Suzaku, you seem to know what you want to do. Oh, and by the way, maybe I am not really motivated to do so, but I might as well become the emperor."


The only thing that partially saved this episode was C.C. returning for Cheese-kun before taking off with Anya/Marianne and the development of Suzaku...with one caveat.

Suzaku's little speech in the crater and the nasty lines he gave to Nina (shocking her once again with how stupid she was to NOT KNOW this it would work that way). At least Suzaku finally realized what a monster he has become, and is better off just carrying the whole thing to completion.

But...why in God's name did he bring a sword? He chased after Lelouch with a gun. He's shot people in the face with guns, destroyed turrets with kicks and done all sorts of other nifty things. But we have never seen him use a sword. It's pretty obvious he sucks with them, because with his natural athleticism we've seen two seasons of, he can't compare to the Knight of One. Bring a gun you moron! Knight of One pops out, does a little sword flourish....shoot him in the head. Just like Raiders of the Lost Ark, how hard is that?


I guess there is a reason a lot of this seems chopped together.
Not Quite as Planned [link found via RandomC]

---

I agree with everything here. They conveniently ended all the little side plots in one episode.

Viletta - her role in the series is over
Cornelia - she offers nothing and just follows Shneizel around
Anya - she's the vessel for Lelouch's mother, hence all those geass "moments"
Marianne - see Anya
CC - the whole thing with cute and innocent CC is over after she abruptly returns to being her old self
Kallen - after her brief reunion with Lelouch, she's immediately demoted to just another minor character

Well with this episode, it looks like my hopes for a season 3 die. Like Ryll has said all the side plots are all but gone. Marianne as Anya was forced on the plot only because there are 5 episodes left.

I, for one, am fine with all the side plots ending. There were simply too many loose ends hanging around, and very little time to finish them. The way the story went is also pretty good, unexpected, and yet still makes sense. The only real complaint here is the pacing, which I completely agree with.

A lot of things were rushed, and thus leaves everyone feeling unsatisfied. R2 has so many things going on all at the same time. I wish they stretched it out to 37 episodes or something to make it flow better, without the gigantic time skips that make it seem we are only watching climax moments in each episode. Still, this has been going on ever since CG season 1 (episode 24-25 anyone?) so it isn't anything new.

I don't think the Cornelia and Villetta roles will end as they are at present. They were simply developed too much to just be discarded as worthless characters. There are 5 episodes left, and that is like a season of story and plot twist for Code Geass.

Also, as long as C.C. is back, everything is fine with Code Geass, like Lucifus said.

Four episodes left according to the page that Ryllharu linked to.

I go off of wikipedia, though I dont know how reliable it is. The one thing they do have is the titles in advance, which have been accurate for every episode.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lucifus

Whatever....as long as C2 is back, all is right in the world of Geass.

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Except for the posters who a few episodes back thought the memory loss was going to be some kind of amazing turning point for the season.

Nope, just plot filler.

No, it wasn't. If that didn't happen, the series would not have turned out they way it did at all (Lelouch in despair, Suzaku using FLEIA, Nunnally dying[?]). Just because it ended abruptly does not make the changes it caused to the plot trivial.

episode was "ok"(animation and action wise) but everything is total weird now and confusing

who has beaten up that reporter guy and for what reason?
I can think of Kallen doing that, but why didn't they show us that, it's not like we don't want to see kallen beating him up :/

and how the hell did Lelouch ended up in this freaking mind-world again? wasn't the knight of one guarding it?

I didn't understand the whole Anya+C.C. part... it was like "Oh hai, there I'm Lelouch's mozza in Anya's body" - "Oh hi, ok I will turn back to normal again " - "Ok let's go then" (why do they follow him anyway if they don't really want to help Lelouch?

Ok, ok...she was probably able to get his mind back to normal again, because this "Cyberworld" (forgot the name) is back online again...but this was still very hasty...

I'm totally confused and this is actually the first time I think R2 is shit compared to the first season... I've seen worse but seriously, this isn't right....

but I noticed that the animationstyle of some characters changed a bit... (for example Lelouch) and Mad-zaku is turning into a really interesting character now ^^

Lol, so Lelouch watched Dragonball and how Trunks and Goten tried to trap Boo in the room of time and space, eh :P

Anyway, not a bad episode....but a bit too fast, overall. I mean, last episode Lelouch is at his end, now within minutes he has geass´ed half of Britannia´s army and is back to full power.

Also, can anyone explain the whole CC-thing? Did she just act when it seemed she had lost her memory? Meh, i dont like that.

@Krayz-

The Knight of one was fooled by Anya/Marianne, which allowed Lelouch to get inside without being caught. It was obvious. Anya/Marianne even zoomed in on him while he is on his way inside the cave.

You're not supposed to understand the Anya part yet since it hasn't been explained. The C.C. part was simplified into her hiding inside her own mind voluntarily. Then Anya/Marianne, who always seemed to have the ability to connect with C.C.'s psyche (must be a geass connection thing), came and pulled her out. Simple, yes. Could have been better, yes. Hard to understand, not really.

Why are they following him? Are they even following him? I think it was clearly implied that they headed to the island because the emperor has begun executing his plans, and Marianne felt it and "revived".

It was surprising rather than confusing really, at least at this point, since explanations will probably come a bit later.

@Mfauli - We can't be sure yet, but I think rather than acting, she went into a state of denial or rejection. Not knowing why she did not fulfill her lifelong (and how long it is) goal of dying, she probably became confused and escaped reality. It happens to real people when something traumatic happens to them, so it is quite possible this is the case. C.C. is lucky she has someone who can enter her mind and "save" her.

It certainly was a jumpy experience. It felt like half of the material had been cut or never animated and just skipped. Not that skipping would be anything new what comes to CG, though.

I had no problems with Marianne residing inside Anya's head. It finally gives some justification to why Anya has been getting so much screen time. It's no use to look at it the other way around and say she should have been developed more for this. She wasn't anything remarkable otherwise, I reckon. Being a host was her purpose and it culminated in this episode.

C.C.'s transformation to her old self, though, sorely disappointed me, and I'm sad to say that. In fact there even wasn't any transformation. But to be realistic, when you look at the episode as a whole, I suppose we need to be thankful C.C.'s and Anya's meeting was even shown and not just suddenly them flying around as if nothing ever happened to C.C.

They better have something really juicy in the last 4 or 5 episodes to justify all the cuts in this one.

@ shinta
hmmm true.. I didn't realize that he entered the cave... I just thought they saw him walking on the ground...

maybe I was just too shocked about the sudden change of... well, everything... (and missing explanations)

What I am wondering about is whether C.C. remembers everything that happened when she was all innocent. I am leaning towards yes, since they seem to be well versed with everything that's happened.

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Originally Posted by shinta|hikari

What I am wondering about is whether C.C. remembers everything that happened when she was all innocent. I am leaning towards yes, since they seem to be well versed with everything that's happened.

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hmmm are they? Anya could've said that the King is doing "that" thing... and C.C. knows what to do now... and she follows her probably because Anya/Marianne violated the contract between them... because she said something like "if you think I violated the rules you should follow me now" or so.

Maybe it's the last chance for C.C. to do something before the Emperor destroys this option

I am hoping C.C. does remember. If not, it really seems like the other cute innocent C.C. just died and disappeared. While I love the haughty and dry C.C. more, I love the other C.C. a lot as well. In fact, I love all that is C.C., even the stuff she is related to, like pizza and cheese-kun. Wait, I kind of lost my train of thought....

Who cares. C.C. is all that matters.

C.C. BANZAI!!!

I'll miss slave-mode but C.C. will always be C.C. But good grief this episode was full of hax and nonsense. It took 45 episodes for Lelouch to finally just order someone to obey all his commands.

There was too much wtf in this ep to fully get my head around it but one thing that I marked well was Suzaku pushing the limit of crazy even further. Now he's decided that all that matters are results so that he doesn't have to feel bad about all the bad things that he's done. I guess since he's completely raped that whole 'right method' thing that he's been clinging to so badly that he's fully turned into Lelouch (finally) but somehow he makes it look like a really bad thing.

I don't understand how Lelouch contacted so many britannian soldiers, especially the ones in one-man knightmares.

Lelouch was finally using what the Black Knights had all feared he was using on them. The "Obey everything I say" command, turning them into his slaves. Before this, Lelouch was either using one-time, phrase, timed, or event triggered commands. This would allow whoever he used it on to resume their normal lives and normal personality/asprirations after he was done with them. Either that or he simply used the command for info.

Here, he made them his slaves. He could easily (as we saw him doing) command others to bring in more soldiers, order their subordinates in Knightmares to come back for a 'coffee break,' only to make more slaves. The more you have, the faster you can gain more. Reverse pyramid scheme. Start at the top and work your way down.

What I'm surprised about this episode (amongst other things), was Marianne's personality. In contrast to what we've heard about her, she turned out to be something akin to a witty and playful girl. Not at all like the regal figure Jeremiah and Cornelia described and admired. They explained it in one line "She a good actor", but a shocker's still a shocker.

By the way, where was the thing about C.C/Marianne violating their treaty? I didn't catch it in Eclipse's version.

Despite Marianne's seemingly immortal geass power, this really leaves her weakness wide open. From all the geass powers we've seen so far, some have obvious weaknesses, while others don't seem to have any. If Marianne's had one, I'd assume it was that she has to transfer back into her own body if she wants a new host. If that was the case, I can see her dying (if at all) by the hands of Jeremiah's Geass Canceller.

By far the most confusing part for me though, is C.C. taking her own code. If it can be done, why has no one done it before?

C.C. told Marianne that she did not fulfill the contract when C.C. just returned to her old self, around 5:30 depending on the version. Fulfillment of the contract in this case, would be killing C.C., which makes me glad Marianne never did so.

EDIT: About the sealing of the code, I think she did it involuntarily (and could return voluntarily as well), since she did reply that she was unaware of the reason she did so when Marianne inquired. If that is the case, the reason why no one has done it yet so far is because it cannot be done by will, or it has not been discovered to be possible yet. Marianne probably diagnosed the situation when she saw C.C.'s odd behavior and confirmed her suspicions/theory when she entered C.C.'s mind and found her there.

Please understand this ; Lelouch together with purple flames equals pure ownage.

This is a plot heavy ep, yes, but the thing is that it's only a warmup ep to me. Making this much revelations, can mean only one thing, that a major one is about to be uncovered and thats interesting. Anya is Marianne, so what, that doesn't bring much to CG ...

Lelouch is full of bile and back in the game baby !

Even if Cornelia was to be a Geass user, I wouldn't give a shit because whats important here, is Lelouch and nothing else.

I have to disagree.

C.C. is what is important here and nothing else.

But since Lelouch seems to be important to C.C. (especially with that expression she showed when Marianne considered not helping her son), I will give him second place.

wow, the only decent thing in the first part of the episode that i'd missed was Suzaku's "Nina, you're a fucking idiot" moment. I'm not totally against Anya being Marianne, but I thought it was poorly executed. It was more confusing than shocking. More or less, I agree with Ryll. Craptacular pacing, lackluster 'big moment' delivery.

I like Schneizel's "oh well, guess I'll just become Emperor after all". The guy is not like Lelouch at all. He seems to be running on the low spectrum of personal ambition, but is just in the role where, really, who else could lead the country but him? He even said, "The emperor has left the thrown empty many a night", implying, that he, the Prime Minister, has already been doing a shit ton of the actual governing. And, at the core, Schneizel is a 'so-far' good person. He cares about his people. He has long disagreed with the Emperor, which can be seen in him basically arranging the marriage to end the war with China, and now in signing a cease-fire with a severely weakened (Zero-less) Black Knights.

Of course, there is only one explanation why he took this opportunity, Suzaku volunteering to kill the emperor: Lelouch needed confusion to get onto that island, ditto for Marianne and C.C. Yes, the whole coup is just a big plot convenience that, although it'll probably spawn some subplot of its own, really just lets Charles vs. Lelouch w/ CC and Marianne present take place.

Liked how they handled Gino. I hate it when EVERYBODY is just like, "Fuck yeah coup d'etat! Why not?"

I like how even though Suzaku is becoming more and more like season 1Lelouch, and Lelouch more and more like old Suzaku, everyone still hates Suzaku and thinks Lelouch walks on water.

I have no words for the silent fury that is my feelings towards Lelouch conveniently enslaving all the crucial pieces (but somehow not all!) of the Britannian army.

This episode was a shit-show of "This is how we're going to get to the climax". But let's hope Suzaku's right, and the ends turn out more important than these woefully pathetic means.

Schneizel smiling when FLEIA was fired really makes it hard for me to think of him as a "so-far" good person.

All the princes of Britannia are more or less screwed in the head. The princesses seem far more stabile and normal.

You are forgetting that childish one who is like "Yeah let's just destroy China =D"

I cant say Schneizel is a "so-far" good person. He didnt bat a eye when Nunnally died. Nor did he seem happy when Cornelia came back. I still think he has the potential of being the primary antagonist of this series, though it would take some serious BS on the writers part since there are what 5 episodes left?

Becarefull, Schneizel and his bitch Canon are a serious duo that could prove to be the real baddies of CG

I was wondering about the symbolism behind the sequence in the OP where they show Schniezel and the Emperor splitting with blue and red shadows, while Lelouch splits into a FABULOUS rainbow.

It seems to be developing that Charles and Schniezel both see the world in black and white (blue and red). Charles sees only the disgusting side of this world, the evil, the hatred, and all the things that make the world unfair (ref. flashback conversation with V.V. while Marianne and C.C. are in the background). So Charles wants to destroy the world.

On the other hand, while we don't know a whole lot of what Schniezel really believes at this point, he seems to lean towards becoming a ruler that supposedly "cares" for the people. I'm beginning to believe that he's more after a Nanny State (think the real world UK) in comparison to Charles' authoritarian rule. Schniezel does smirk at nuclear weapons launching, but has continually expressed interest in Euphie's plan of making a well regulated happy place for the Japanese as well as Nunnally's reintroduction of that plan, and other "goodwill" projects. I could see how the independent city-state of Nippon could have become something not unlike a reservation or the prison camps that the real world US created for both Native Americans and the Japanese in WWII.

Then we have Lelouch, who has known from the beginning that the world is all in shades of grey. He once liked the Britannia people, but someone among them took his mother from him. He hated becoming a hostage to the Japanese, until he met his first friend. His friend would later betray him time and time again, but he had met more Japanese people he could like. Kallen, though fiercely loyal to the Resistances, also made a lot of friends among the Britannians. C.C., Diethard, Raksharta, all people who couldn't really care less which side they were on, so long as their ultimate goals were reached.

That's my hypothesis anyway.

So C.C decided to take a little vacation in her mind? I'm sure Lelouch would've appreciated her help in this most recent crisis.

I don't know how they didn't catch Lelouch out of the forest.

Mad props to enkoujin for calling a Anya-Marianne correlation.

I hope they try to clear the mist in the last couple of episodes though.

Well I hope Jeremiah's Geass cancellor becomes of more use.... Otherwise it'll be pretty lame. I mean, all we've seen it do so far was cancel the geass on Shirley and then she died. And then the scene where he reveals to Lelouch that he's all about being loyal to Marianne.

Schneizel, good boy, bad boy?

Hard to tell, but from what Canon said "So he's finally made up his mind." hints that the thought hasn't crossed Schneizel's mind. Furthermore, it means that the previous times it has, his answer wasn't "No".

It would be interesting if Orange's canceler was the thing that finally let Suzaku die.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

I guess there is a reason a lot of this seems chopped together.
Not Quite as Planned [link found via RandomC]

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It's a real pity that it turned out this way. Like Darker than Black, I can only guess at how the story should have really turned out. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xtallography

It would be interesting if Orange's canceler was the thing that finally let Suzaku die.

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I think it'll be the only thing that can kill Suzaku. With the Lancelot Albion getting Cecile Wings, he'll be invincible, even escaping FLEIA's blast radius.

I still think Suzaku's the one who'll live, while Lelouch will die. Then we'll finally unlock possibly the final mystery of his geass: Are his orders followed even when he dies?

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

I still think Suzaku's the one who'll live, while Lelouch will die. Then we'll finally unlock possibly the final mystery of his geass: Are his orders followed even when he dies?

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As if he would die for something like that... I can't right now believe in Lelouch's death for the simple reason that C.C. was left alive so that she could experience happiness in life and not the happiness in death she had been looking for all the time. And it was Lelouch who was going to show that to her. Who knows, maybe nearing the end Lelouch will intend to die for whatever cause but C.C. will stop him.

From the beginning of the show I've wanted a Lelouch-C.C. happily ever after ending.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kraco

As if he would die for something like that... I can't right now believe in Lelouch's death for the simple reason that C.C. was left alive so that she could experience happiness in life and not the happiness in death she had been looking for all the time. And it was Lelouch who was going to show that to her. Who knows, maybe nearing the end Lelouch will intend to die for whatever cause but C.C. will stop him.

From the beginning of the show I've wanted a Lelouch-C.C. happily ever after ending.

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I'm not sure if this was discussed already, but I think this is a huge part of the discussion between Marianne and C.C. in C.C.'s head. This was the part that went unsaid. Marianne said that Charles could have given C.C. the death she so desired, and C.C. replied she didn't know why she didn't take the opportunity.

It's probably because of Lelouch. She might have finally experienced a little bit of the actual love and affection she was seeking those hundreds of years ago, and she may not even know it.

I'm starting to see Schneizel as the son who wanted to impress his dad and did lots of things he thought would make him proud, but then never got the approval he was seeking because he didn't have the kind of disposition his dad favored. Lelouch strikes me more as the Emporer's true son in terms of possessing a similar disposition (I don't like this so I'm going to force it to change because I have the power to).

Despite his apparent compassion when compared to Lelouch or Charles, Schneizel still seems quite content to conquer the world which ultimately marks him as a 'bad guy'. Maybe Schneizel would be a good and decent ruler, but I doubt all the conquered peoples would have Suzakuesque neuroses and happily embrace being put under the authority of Britannia completely unbidden. No matter how you dice it or how nice you are about it when you go around stealing the autonomy of countries with your big stick/god mecha/nuclear weapons you can't be all that 'good'.

Throwing this one out there, but no one thinks there'll be a father-son bonding during this "temporary" eternity?

Maybe Charles and Lelouch will recognize their differences, get together and just talk out their problems, in which the outcome ends in Lelouch being more like his father, stated by Yukimura, or Charles becoming good like Lelouch.

Maybe Marianne had tried to escape a life of Charles' concubines, and decided to seal herself away at hosts. Maybe that was why Charles got pissed and decided to get rid of her.

But since it's Code Geass, I spectate that while Lelouch and Charles are busy discussing their idealogies, Charles will reveal that he had found another way to bypass the seal exits for the Sword and destroy the world, however being stuck with Lelouch for all eternity. Then, for some plot-hole existing reason, C.C and Marianne bust into the Geass Elevator, sealing the Sword, and taking Lelouch out of there (leaving Charles and Marianne behind).

Then, as Suzaku and Schneizel start to conquer the world, now that the OBK had declared a truce, Lelouch comes back with C.C, rounding up geass'd slaves in an attempt to stop Schneizel and Suzaku. Lelouch brings Jeremiah, kills Suzaku all amidst dramatic irony that Suzaku only wanted the best for Lelouch after killing Nunally, and Lelouch breaks down Britannia.

Talking about Marianne and Charles, they made a fair deal about how Charles ordered the body to be concealed and sent off right after her assassination.

If Charles knew of Marianne's geass and it's power, he may have collected it to either research on, or more likely, destroyed it so she cannot perform another body transfer.

I'm saying this because I believe that if Marianne's geass had a weakness, it would be that she has to get back into her body before she can possess another body. Now that her body's destroyed, Charles knows that even if she survived, she would either have to live hiding away, or he can kill her should she admit to the world that she's Marianne.

Of course, a case like what happened this week can also happen.

Wait, are we really sure Marianne is against the Emperor? I am not saying she isn't, but has there been any blatant mention that her goal opposes the emperor? When she revived after realizing the emperor is about to initiate his plans, it might be to help him or something.

The same goes for the emperor. For all we know, they might be in this together or something.

[Nipponsei] Code Geass R2 Original Soundtrack 1.zip

The emperor did nothing to stop the assassination of Marianne... or at least he didn't try to solve the case (who did kill her... and why), because of this and some other reasons Lelouch hates Charles... and now we have to ask, why didn't he try to find the culprit? Maybe because he is party involved in all this.... and why did he want to kill her? Maybe because she tried to stop the Emperor in doing something important for him.

So, I'm pretty sure she wants to stop him

If not, then it's just another "lulz code geass" moment which nobody understands

Well, that's that I thought too, but you can easily explain that will Britannia's belief: the strongest survive.

The emperor may well have thought "If she was killed so easily, then she was not fit to be my partner and equal."

Or for some reason, it would be better to have her dead at that point. Let us not forget that the emperor probably knows about her geass. Also, Marianne did not seem angry for being killed, as if it was part of some plan.