Ok. I've created a thread in which we should redirect all arguments about Naruto's idiocies. Here would be a much better place to list all of the stupid/intelligent things he has done, and argue endlessly about them.
I'll start: Naruto is an idiot.
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Ok. I've created a thread in which we should redirect all arguments about Naruto's idiocies. Here would be a much better place to list all of the stupid/intelligent things he has done, and argue endlessly about them.
I'll start: Naruto is an idiot.
I'll defend him.
His Kage Bunshin strategies are genius, like the time he fought Neji back in the Chuunin exams. Just when you think he couldn't get anymore dumb, and right when you thought he lost, SHAZAM!! He pulls something like coming out of the ground off.
The chuunin was a hax. It was an exhibition if it was a serious battle for life and death Neji would've killed Naruto with his first hit. I didn't take any of those battles seriously, the only one I did was Gaara vs Sasuke because in that one Sasuke life was on the line. His Kage Bunshin justu being genius has nothing to do with him he lucked out on learning that one and he doesn't even use it effectively.
Without it Naruto wouldn't have one a single battle not that it effected to outcome of any of his battles much but he would've been completely useless without it. He wouldn't have even become a genin.
That battle was the worst piece of crap I've ever seen not just because Neji went easy on him but because he won by digging a hole in the ground and attacking Neji from underground if it was Sasuke and the Sharingan I would've have given it to him but it was the Byakugan. WTF?
Naruto is an idiot, its established, its a fact. However than doesn't mean that he isn't capable of making smart decisions or being a capable ninja. All he needs is more training and some more experience so he'll actually begin taking his opponents seriously instead of walking around with all that unwarranted confidence and then not being able to perform when its necessary.
@KcMmmmm: What a name. Anyway can we use to this to talk about random inconsistencies in Naruto rather than just talking about whether Naruto is an idiot or not?
No. He uses what he has very well. As I said in the other post, Naruto is pretty much death proof. I mean he can die, but the Nine Tails is a big helper in that department. So Naruto does have that chip on his shoulders. Not to mention strategies arent his thing, so of course he is going to jump right on in and fight, and further more by doing this he does throw off the game of the people that he is fighting. They are too busy thinking WTF to focus on the fact that they are in a fight, plus they under-estimate thim. And his Shadow Clones has been used time and time again to help him gain perspective on the opponents abilities and to surprise them. So not an Idiot!
Not is death proof not because of the reasons you stated but simply because he is the protagonist. The show is called Naruto after all so he will definitely survive all his battles, defeat opponents he is in no way capable of defeating etc.
in alot of ways he is a textbook idiot but he has his own style and comes up with some great ideas.
All time favorite is when he pwns kabuto w\ rasangen by letting him stab his hand so that he can hold him still. I have watched that over and over, its classic.
I seriously think Naruto deserved most of the battles he fought, the only one that I totally don't accept is the one where he fights Kakuzu
Naruto just happens to learn a powered-up rasengan that couldn't and manages to land a hit on Kakuzu using a kage bunshin diversion (Kakuzu at this point already knew Naruto could make kage bunshins)
and Kakuzu who survived several generations, uses all elements of high level, is fooled by Naruto's kage bunshin just because it was holding another rasengan?
This match was seriously bs
I completely agree with you on this one. Kakuzu never struck me as a genius, but he should have been familiar enough with deceptive ninja techniques to prepare himself for that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by February
I know Naruto has used some intelligent strategies, however he always pulls out the same trick first before implementing his strategy - a trick which never works. Blindly attacking an enemy is not a smart move, and the notion that he is doing it to gain info is not entirely valid, since he was doing this well before he realized that his defeated shadow clones dispersed their gained knowledge.
I definitely liked Naruto's strategy against Neji. At that point of the battle, Neji was completely worn out, and didn't wish to spend his last energy pulling out Byakugan when it seemed clear that his enemy was defeated. Still, one good strategy isn't enough (in my opinion) to rectify using the same ineffective strategies in every battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
That's why I really like Shikamaru; he may not be very strong, and his endurance - or chakra capacity - may suck, but he's able to win by using superior strategies against nearly every opponent. Definitely a cool character. And when you pair him with a powerhouse like Naruto, they could become unstoppable.
That is my problem with Naruto not only does Kishi have him using the same strategy he was using since the first episode/chapter but he keeps finding bs ways for it to work against opponents Naruto shoudln't be able to touch. I get that Naruto is the main character and that he inevitably will have him defeating insanely strong opponents but atleast he could make Naruto and his battles look good in the process.
Oh and Neji had the byakugan on at that point in the battle which is why I complained about it so much.
I felt the same way, since that battle began I knew Kishi would pull something out his ass and make Naruto somehow defeat Kakuku but he really did a bad job there. Not only because he made a badass charater like Kakuku, who had survived for god knows how long he was alive, look like a complete idiot but because the combined efforts of Kakashi and Shikamru's team only took away 2 of Kakuzu lives but Naruto could finish him off in on go. All he did was come it and start rasenganing as usual and not only did he make Kakuzu look like a complete fool but he made Kakashi, Shikamaru and their team look completely useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by February
I think I'll add what your leaving out from that battle. Kabuto purposely took the hit from the rasengan because he knew he would be able to heal any damage he took and because it allowed him to inflict an attack on Naruto that if not for Tsunade would have been fatal.Quote:
Originally Posted by bbaucom
Oh and even idiots come with some good ideas at times especially when they are desperate. That is what makes them and idiot, they aren't stupid they just rarely use their brains. Do you know what the buddy system is. lol
First off I don't feel Naruto is an idiot but I do feel that Naruto as well as most of the characters are largely underdeveloped in the series as a whole.
Seriously if a Hokage is suppose to know over a thousand techniques and the 4th was what under 30 when he became Hokage? Gara is what 16-17 or so? Anyway the simple fact that all of the Ninja's in Naruto rely on so few techniques in general bugs me more then any individual battle with Naruto. Seriously have Naruto train for years one on one with a legendary ninja and when he comes back he's learned next to nothing new? All of the others learned maybe one or two new techniques as well over that time period when they all should have a good 100 new techniques of any sort that have been learned.
I just think something along the line of having everyone know some more basic techniques or in general a collection of more advanced techniques would go a very long way in most of these fight. There was a LONG time skip Kishi should have no problem justifying a bit more variety in his ninja's instead of having all of them be one trick ponies who get a lot better at that one trick as things go on.
This goes for just about EVERYONE in the series.
So essentially I think its less about Naruto specifically being a moron and more about all of the main ninja's being overall underdeveloped.
@ DDBen You make a good point, but I don't think all ninja are supposed to know huge numbers of techniques, not even the Hokage. The Third was famous for knowing all the techniques in Konoha, but I don't think they meant to imply that all Hokage must know all the jutsu of the villiage in order to hold the position. They fact that they call Kakkashi the Copy Ninja and it was mentioned that he had copied (and thus knew) XXXX techniques implied to me that knowing a huge number of techniques was considered a rare and special status in the Narutoverse. That being said, It would be nice to see more advancements from the other original Konoha ninja post time skip. Even if it's just variations on a theme more than just one or two variations would be something. So far the only really interesting new techniques I've seen are Sakura's strength and Shikamaru's Kagenui.
I thought Gaara's techniques were pretty impressive as well. I was expecting to see something from Neji seeing how advanced he was before the time skip and then they mentioned that he had become a jounin but unfortunately it didn't turn out that way.
@DDben: Yukinura is right not all the hokage know over a thousand techniques in fact I don't most ninja ever get anywhere near that range. The first was the only hokage who was famous for knowing alot supposedly all the techniques in the village but if you look at the first for example I would think that most of his techniques were based from his Mokuton, similar to how all of Gaara's techniques use his sand. I don't think the fourth knew many techniques well that is probably to wrong wording he probably knew many techniques but didn't use much. He was famous for his strength and his speed and I would think that he used mostly his own original techniques.
I would think it would be much better for a ninja to use a few techniques that he is very familiar with and highly proficient at, rather than simply using a vast multitude of jutsu. Like Kakashi for example he is supposed to know upwards of a thousand jutsu but he most relies on raikiri because its his own original technique and he his most powerful and he is adept at using it. So it makes sense that ninjas would stick to a few strong reliable techniques which is far more convenient for the mangaka because I would imagine that multiple characters using a multitude of techniques would be quite difficult to not only mange but remember which is why in most manga the major characters only use a few techniques.
Naruto just needs to learn a few more techniques so he could become more of a complete ninja because him only knowing variations of essentially two techniques( he only used summoning twice I think so I'm not counting it) may be convenient for Kishi but it not practical for a ninja to be using only two techniques. He needs to learn a couple mid to long range attacks. I was always expecting him to learn a few speedy techniques like the body flicker which would be able to make up for his shortcomings and would make him more like the fourth either that or he has to learn some defensive techniques because lets face it he has no defense.
I agree with you on that but Naruto doesn't need many defensive techniques because he can endure heavy beatings and his Kyuubi regenerates his wounds. It would be nice if he did learn some though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
True, but its pure plot device. He does need defensive techniques as I doubt he would be able to endure an Akatsuki delivered beating besides we have seen form his battle with Kabuto that there are ways to go around the Kyuubi.
Akatsuki's goal is not to kill Naruto but to extract the Kyuubi so they won't be trying to kill but would most definitely use attacks strong enough to render him unconscious and from what Kisame did to him and Sasuke's sharingan. I'm sure Akatsuki has ways to make the Kyuubi a non-factor.
Naruto can't rely on the Kyuubi anyway because using it is detrimental to his own health and even if he does they should easily enough be able to avoid him and once his berserker mode is over he is helpless. He needs defensive techniques he can't rely on the kyuubi to heal him, that only worked on those low level techniques he's been hit with in the past and none of the Akatsuki are going to give him time to heal like Sasuke did. Sasuke was surprised by Naruto's abilities the Akatsuki won't be.
Capturing Naruto would be easy enough for them to do whenever they want to, for some reason it doesn't seem to be a priority though. They seem to be randomly extracting to bijuu so it doesn't appear like they are in any hurry. Itachi could simply get him in a genjutsu again and then they would capture him while he is struggling to break out. He is definitely in need of defensive techniques especially if he is going to be facing Akatsuki opponents, I doubt he will learn any though. He needs more techniques period I don't really care what they are as long as it isn't another rasengan.
Naruto is an idiot
point closed, all of his fights are exactly the same, he never learns anything (not from his mentors nor from his prior fights), and he doesn't do anything with the 'info' he gets from sending in clones.
since the first fight, Naruto sent in shadow clones, we've seen some variations of it (Kakashi mixing normal clones, Naruto transforming himself and the clones, using the clones as baits against Neji), but he never adapted all of it to a battle plan.
he sends his clones randomly to attack, and we all know that simple clones with low level taijutsu will never do any damage to a jounin level enemy, he probably knows that as well.
so why doesn't he use the clones to get some real info on the enemy? even Ichigo (Bleach) was able to figure out Renji's max combo-limit and get the right timing.
Naruto has showen us some nice moves, the battle against Zabuza (the first battle), the forest fight against the mist ninjas (I think it was the mist), the fight against Neji when he used the Byakugan against neji (making a clone seem like the real one), but he has grown much dumber since. Sure, he has more destructive power, but he has no K.O patteren to get a hit.
I think it was the rain ninjas but you are right, like I said before Naruto has plenty of potential and he certainly has shown that he has the mental capacity to come up with some interesting battle strategies, he has just elected not to thus making him and idiot.
Actually, by initially attacking blindly with his shadow clones, Naruto lowers his enemies' guard. They automatically think this kid is stupid, so they are surprised when he comes up with a deceptive side attack later on. So whether Naruto does this on purpose or not, it does work.Quote:
Originally Posted by KCMmmmm
It also shows his opponents that Naruto excels at making Kage Bunshins, Naruto wastes some chakra, and shows his opponents that Naruto is a close-combat type of ninja.Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsuleCorpJX
Therefore, the opponent, who might lower his guard, also expects kage bunshin tactics from Naruto (who almost always need them for anything) , and are willing to make distance between him and Naruto to engage in long range combat.
Initially attacking blindly with shadow clones don't always make enemies think Naruto is stupid. It might be a stupid thing to do, but it doesn't always work the other way around. Smart ninjas are always prepared for tricks, diversions, and deceptions.
Agreed.
Naruto is simply inconsistent, and if seen in general, a very poorly written, illogical character.