The way we write

[KitKat]

Alright, I've noticed that issues of language, spelling, and grammar keep popping up in other areas of the forum. I figured that this topic comes up enough to warrant creating a thread for it. Plus, as a linguist, I find discussions on language to be infinitely fascinating. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

So, the question that often comes up is: "Is it really important how I type my posts?"

And the answer is yes. You see, since this is an online forum, the only way we interact with each other is through the written word. No one has the benefit if being able to speak to you face-to-face, therefore all their opinions of you are based upon what you write and how you write it. People only generally consider the first aspect as being important: the content. And while the content of a post reveals a lot about who someone is, they often don't realize how much the manner in which they say it also shapes others' perceptions of them.

There have been linguistic studies done on this, and I'm not gonna bother to dig them out, but if anyone is interested, I could probably hook you up with some statistics. Basically, the outcomes are as follows: People who use a 'standard' form of a language are regarded as being more intelligent, and are likely to be more successful, whereas people who use non-standard dialects are often thought of as being below average intelligence, even if this is not the case.

Language can also show aspects of your personality. Let me pick on a couple gotwoot members here for examples. Souryusen always starts his sentences with a capital letter and ends them with a period, even in the irc channel where barely anyone uses ending punctuation. Also, the words that he uses are always very precise. This reflects a few things about his personality, namely an attention to detail, and a meticulousness that does not give in to the laziness that everyone else adopts (Sou, correct me if I'm wrong here.....I'm randomly speculating from what I know of sociolinguistics). And in fact, I'm glad that he is like that, because his profession leaves very little room for sloppiness or shortcuts.

Second example is one of our newer members, Chaoskiddo, who's been hassled for his grammar and spelling recently. The question that was posed to him was why would he use 'wuz' in the place of 'was' since they both have the same amount of letters and hence it's not saving him any time. I think the answer to this lies in fact that language is often used not just to convey information but also to build solidarity between people. One of the ways that this is done, is by having a certain dialect that you use with your friends, with which you relate to each other, but don't necessarily use with outsiders. In my opinion, Chaoskiddo's use of 'wuz' and such, words that he normally uses with his friends, signifies that he regards us as his peers, and is relating to us on that level.

Whew, this is getting longer than I thought. Sorry about that guys. I just like linguistics so much that I get carried away. So, I have other random thoughts and theories, but I'll save them for another time if anyone seems to be interested. Otherwise, feel free to post any thoughts you have about language, spelling and grammar on the forums or just in general. Let's try to keep this away from flaming anyone in particular though. So no posts like "so-and-so types like a retard". And if you didn't make it through reading all of this massively long post, it's ok. It's all rambling anyways.

[ChaosK]

yeah kitkat thanks for explaining for me, surprisenly u pretty much captured exactly the reason i type the way i do but if u noticed inside the naruto fourm i am trying to correct myself when talking here. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif
(i'm sorry but plz dont hassle me for spelling since i am a really bad speller i am referring to "surprisenly" because i have no clue how to spell it.)

[2:25]

Very interesting stuff&
and I totally agree that how people write reflect upon their personalities. Plus, I like to also comment on the use of slang. I personally love slang just because of the sounds that the words make. For example: there is kind of and kinda. The latter spelling just seems to roll off the tongue. Also, I find that written dialogues with slang are more convincing in terms of realism then the use of proper words.

[2:25]

sorry, double post ^^''

[Assassin]

true say kitkat

[Board of Command]

Hehe, good depiction of "internet language" there. A couple things I'd like to add if you don't mind...

Another big issue is punctuation and grammar. The usage of punctuation and grammar on the internet is pretty much the same as people using "wuz" - it's dialect vs. writing. People that avoid using punctuation are the ones that write as if they're speaking the sentences. Normally when we speak, we don't really give much thought about the punctuational and grammatical structures of our sentences, especially fragments. When we talk we just say the first words that come to mind, and if you find them inappropriate afterwards, you just change them on the spot.

Now for the other side of the battle. People that use or attempt to use correct punctuation and grammar are those that realize they're an anonymous being writing to a bunch of strangers. Their mindset when writing online is: "nobody here knows how I talk in real life, so I must make my writing as correct and clear as possible". People that write this way are not losers with too much time on their hands because they write in what we call "the proper way". Take me for example. Writing this way doesn't make my typing any slower because in this mindset, typing in a clear and legible way feels "natural", and anytime I'm writing on the internet, I feel this is the "right" way to do it when trying to get my point across. In the end it just comes down to differences between verbal people and literal people.

And now for my final point: profanity. The usage of online profanity is simply a way for some people to make online conversations feel more real life-like. In the way profanity is used, both real life and online, isn't even for the purpose of describing things. Profanity is just an expression like a shrug or smile put into verbal form. In real life, when someone says "That guy's a fucking idiot", the purpose of the magic word isn't used to describe the guy, but instead to give insight on how you feel about him. Let's pick that sentence apart, shall we? In a logical sense, saying "That guy's a fucking idiot" is no different from saying "That guy's an idiot" in terms of achieving the purpose. The f-word doesn't emphasize "idiot", it shows how you feel about the guy being an idiot.

Now, put profanity online. Using profanity is all about the way you say it out loud. Using profanity online totally defeats its purpose, and thus pointless. Reading the sentence "That fucking sucks" is totally different from hearing the words "That fucking sucks". Once profanity goes online, all it becomes is another word your eyes read, and nothing more. As I said in the beginning, lots of people use profanity online to make the online experience feel more life-like, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Why don't I ever use profanity? Because I'd like to save wear and tear on my keyboard i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Damn, I think mine thing might actually be longer than KitKat's. I always get carried away when writing things I desperately want to explain...

PS: Good, it's not that long.

[Uchiha Barles]

I have to disagree with what Board is saying about profanity. For me, profanity in general, be it verbal or written is something that carries a certain amount of power to convey expression. I definately see and notice a difference between "this sucks" and this "this fucking sucks". There's a couple of reasons for this, although I'm just going out on a limb with these reasons. Anyone who can, confirm or deny what I'm about to say. To me, the most important is that saying a swear word isn't the same as writing it in the sense that for people who swear, it comes out naturally, whereas when they type it, there's a level of consciousness to it which gives the word the power it loses from not being heard. And, at least on this forum, the frequency of profanity is a testament to that. I read less profanity on this forum than I hear in real life so when I encounter it on the forum, to me it means that the person is trying to emphasize an emotion, and I only realize that when it was effective, which is pretty much all of the time. That's my take on it.

[kAi]

WH4+ 4re J00 +@lK1nG ABouT? Wh@+ 1S wrOn9 Wi+H +hE w4y i WR1TE j00 81+CH i w1LL K1lL yOU! d1E!!!!

[Lefty]

I have no fucking clue what taht says Kai. God I hate 1337.

@uchiha: YOur right about how people use swearing in the forum. I swear like a salor when I'm talking to people. But on the forum I only swear to make a point or enhance what i'm saying.

[SK]

i dont think that how you write online has anything to do with intelligence, for me you shouldent be judging if someone is intelligent or not at all, until you have met them. could i have just written that with correct grammar, of course i could have, but i choose not to, it has nothing to do with intelligence. for me i would rather put my efforts into a paper in my english class worth 60% of my grade and try to pass all my ap tests.
EDIT: also what really pisses me off is people who think theyre better than others because they take a quarter second more time and press shift now an then. btw i have a 206 iq and skipped the 3rd grade, so no, im not dumb, i just dont like the shift button i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[Jman]

1|= '/0|_| ( 4 |\| |2 3 4 |) + |-| 1 5 ,
'/ 0 |_| |2 3 4 |_ |_ '/ |\| 3 3|) +0 6 3 + |_ 4 1 |)

[kAi]

Do you think I would understand that lefty if I didn't get this leet speaker thing to translate what I wrote, which I googled:
http://ryanross.net/leet/ - You can go translate it now, heh.

I like having neat sentences (well as neat as I can have them), it just makes things a hell of alot easier to read. Though I also like to press shift, and make it all like that, it just seems more right.

[KitKat]

@ kai: Haha, cute
@ animemaster: I'm not even going to try to decipher that....just looking at it makes me feel confused



Originally posted by: -Sharingan-Kakashi-
i dont think that how you write online has anything to do with intelligence, for me you shouldent be judging if someone is intelligent or not at all, until you have met them. could i have just written that with correct grammar, of course i could have, but i choose not to, it has nothing to do with intelligence. for me i would rather put my efforts into a paper in my english class worth 60% of my grade and try to pass all my ap tests.
EDIT: also what really pisses me off is people who think theyre better than others because they take a quarter second more time and press shift now an then. btw i have a 206 iq and skipped the 3rd grade, so no, im not dumb, i just dont like the shift button

My point is though that it is unlikely any of us will ever meet in real life. Therefore, we form our opinions of others based on what they write and how they say it. You can't help doing this. Often, it's subconsious. Just like how you initially form opinions about people the first time you see them, without having ever talked to them. It's not that you intend to form these opinions, it's just a consequence of how our minds work.

The thing that I find most interesting is finding people's reasons for using non-standard dialects of English.
Anyways, if I was to do a linguistic analysis of your post, -Sharingan-Kakashi-, I'd say that you use a pretty standard variety of English, regardless of your lack of capitalization and apostrophes. Your spelling is good (not counting typing errors which are different from spelling errors in that typing errors result from typing too fast whereas spelling errors result from either a purposeful misspelling of a word, or a lack of knowledge of how a word is spelled), as is your syntax and sentence flow. You use enough punctuation to make it clear where your thoughts begin and end, and how your sentences should sound. I have a feeling that if missing out an apostrophe or a capital letter would make the meaning of your sentence ambiguous, you would put it in so as to be clear about what you mean.

[Raven]

Nice thread, KK. It's nice to know there are others out there who feel the same way I do about these things. I've been considering making a similar type of thread but I'm a bit too lazy. Sometimes I really let this sort of thing get to me and it makes me really irritated when it shouldn't, but it's just the way I am.

My pet hate is when someone obviously goes to the trouble of typing correctly, using proper punctuation, grammar, etc. and then they use your/you're incorrectly within that otherwise perfect paragraph.

My advice to some particular people on this forum (not to mention any names) is to read over your post before you hit that submit button. Just a simple read-over might help to iron out some of those really obvious mistakes, you can tell when someone just types then instantly clicks submit. Personally, I have no patience for people who don't care enough to spell properly and use punctuation, and often their posts get automatically skipped over. And yes, it does matter. It's not just about you not caring, it suggests that you don't respect the other forum members enough to bother.

[Barumonk]

Originally posted by: animemaster
1|= '/0|_| ( 4 |\| |2 3 4 |) + |-| 1 5 ,
'/ 0 |_| |2 3 4 |_ |_ '/ |\| 3 3|) +0 6 3 + |_ 4 1 |)

"If you can read this, you really need to get laid." ... I feel depressed now.

[Mut]

Wait... I'm getting the feeling that for some of you, it takes effort to type properly... wHAT??? Are you guys that incompetent?

[Rek]

mut , not all of us are gods amoung men.

i see your point though. Not all of us are linguistic majors either -,-

[SK]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
Wait... I'm getting the feeling that for some of you, it takes effort to type properly... wHAT??? Are you guys that incompetent?

yes, yes we are.

[Lefty]

Well I wouldn't say effort Mut, but you learn that if you don't type exactly what you want to say in the most clear and understandable way people don't get what your saying. Also we have good population of people who speak english as a second language, so theres that little hurtle for get over.

[Board of Command]

Deblas is a good example for that. ESL people should aim to get to his level of English communication.

[Turkish-S]

and not everyone's first language is english. english is my third language so i find myself pritty good that i can keep up with the most of u.

[jing]

http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v191/filthysize/Forumpics/english.jpg

[Mut]

Having English as a second or third language does not excuse you from typing like a fucking idiot. Replacing words with numbers (ie. 2 = to or too), using 'u' instead of 'you', or anything trivial like that is nothing but laziness and asking for people to look at you as a 13 year old moron. I don't really give a shit about grammar because as I said, English is a second or a third language for some people and it sometimes gets tricky. But If you're not sure on how a word is spelled go to dictionary.com and look it up.

[Turkish-S]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
Having English as a second or third language does not excuse you from typing like a fucking idiot. Replacing words with numbers (ie. 2 = to or too), using 'u' instead of 'you', or anything trivial like that is nothing but laziness and asking for people to look at you as a 13 year old moron. I don't really give a shit about grammar because as I said, English is a second or a third language for some people and it sometimes gets tricky. But If you're not sure on how a word is spelled go to dictionary.com and look it up.

yep ure right i am laizy. but why doing all the fuzz?? u do understand me so why should i even bother to go to a site just when i don't know how to spel something?? and i have just became 17 i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[Mae]

Nice topic. I also think it's pretty interesting looking at the ways different people try to communicate with each other. I think one of the major difficulties is that posting in a forum like this is more like having a casual conversation with someone rather than formal letter-writing or prose. I write like I would speak, using slang, sentence fragments, and occasional profanity.

One of the things I've noticed since I started posting online is how much of a conversation is either nonverbal (facial expression, hand gestures, posture) or communicated with the tone of someone's voice. If Kitkat makes a point, and I say "right" I could be agreeing with her, being sarcastic, or even be angry. If she can't see or hear me, she can't tell. There is a lot of room for misinterpretation in online posting, and I've been surprised in the past with PM's taking seriously things I did not mean seriously at all (I'm usually NOT serious, if you can't tell).

It's also interesting to see how people try to add back in the information lost by taking out tone of voice and nonverbal cues, like emoticons ("right i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" vs "right i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"), ALL CAPS for emphasis or shouting, intentionally misspelling a word (fear vs phear). l33t sp34k, multiple punctuation marks!!11!1one!!!, or dots for pauses or trailing off...., and abbreviations, lol. I think LOL is one of the most interesting abbreviations because it doesn't actually mean the person typing it is laughing out loud but instead relays what would otherwise be communicated with a smile or a nod in face to face speech.

Anyway, I get the feeling that this type of communication is still in evolution. People are trying things and some work (emoticons, lol, the caps convention) and so are widely adapted. Some are evolutionary dead ends (l33t, I hope). We'll have to see how it will turn out.

[ChaosK]

well i dont know if anybody has noticed but i have been typing "normally" and mut i dont find it that hard, sure it takes maybe a second longer for my fingers to type but all i'll say about the way i used to type was its how my fingers flowed. when typing the word was, my finger instead of going to the "as" went to the "uz" as a habit of doing it over and over again. KitKat made a good point about how on the internet the text you type is the impression you give on others and i completely agree.

so why are we still aruging about thsi here? its because for some reason there are still people who insist on typing the way they do and i dont really care about that, but some others might (for reasons i'm not sure of)

Mae, i agree with some of the things you've said like the intentionally mispelling stuff but, i think if a person wants to say "lol" they should just say it. it is used so often, unless ur telling me that by saying "lol" i have suddenly given you a bad impression that i do not wish to write "laugh-out-loud" or "hahahaha" instead.

--mut if you call using abbreviations laziness too, i am not really sure what it is you expect from people while communicating on an online fourm. and mae what you said about abbreviations, u do know that "vs" is an abbreviation too right? so now your contridicting yourself with your own text which allows me to prove that there is nothing wrong with saying something like "lol" or "jk"

[KitKat]

Heh, Chaoskiddo, I think you misunderstood what Mae was saying. She's not condemning the use of any of these abbreviations or expressions, merely observing that they often serve as a replacement for visual and verbal cues that would normally be present in a face-to-face conversation.

I agree with her that online communication is still in a state of evolution. All languages are always in a state of flux, continually changing, but this is even more true for new emerging communication systems. On a side note, there's a pretty interesting article I read this week related to this issue here (http://www.cbc.ca/story/science/national/2005/03/21/text-message050321.html).

[ChaosK]

oh if that is what Mae is saying then i really did misunderstand and i apologize

[Board of Command]

It's not about using or not using acronyms, it's about which ones you use, not that anyone cares as long as it's commonly known. Problems occur when people start using new acronyms they pull outta there asses, and people have to sit there trying to figure out this new 10-letter acronym.

[GhostKaGe]

Another problem is the people using slang/local dialect in a multinational enviroment.

I hate it when people don't use paragraphs. Not really a problem in short posts but it makes reading long posts very daunting.

I have to admit im not really very good at using punctuation but i always try to ensure my posts are legible.

[Board of Command]

It all comes down to how considerate you are of others, because you're not writing for yourself, you're writing for other people to read.

More considerate = more legible = mission accomplished. All there is too it.

[kAi]

With slang though, it's totally differen I think, I tend to think that they would know what the actual word means, and they're like "What's that?" then I tell them the meaning and they're like OK.

I don't find anything wrong with the mainstream acronyms as BoC said, they are pretty commonly used and most people would know, but with one's that aren't used regularly or you've never heard before, it's a little different, and I don't like them being used.

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: -Sharingan-Kakashi-
i dont think that how you write online has anything to do with intelligence, for me you shouldent be judging if someone is intelligent or not at all, until you have met them. could i have just written that with correct grammar, of course i could have, but i choose not to, it has nothing to do with intelligence. for me i would rather put my efforts into a paper in my english class worth 60% of my grade and try to pass all my ap tests.
EDIT: also what really pisses me off is people who think theyre better than others because they take a quarter second more time and press shift now an then. btw i have a 206 iq and skipped the 3rd grade, so no, im not dumb, i just dont like the shift button

If you're such a prodigy sent to us by God, then you should know that peoples' minds behave differently than that. Every time you meet someone, you establish a first impression within the first couple of seconds. It's something we do subconsciously. You can't TELL people how they should behave, because much of behavior is psychological. Whether you like it or not, the better dresser, the brighter smile, and the guy with the greater aura of charm around him will have a higher potential in the infrastructure of society than you regardless of how much smarter you may be.

[Y]

Originally posted by: -Sharingan-Kakashi-
btw i have a 206 iq ]

No, you don't.

[kAi]

Originally posted by: -Sharingan-Kakashi-
btw i have a 206 iq ]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ



Some writers say that scores outside the range 55 to 145 must be cautiously interpreted because there have not been enough people tested in those ranges to make statistically sound statements. Moreover, at such extreme values, the normal distribution is a less accurate estimate of the IQ distribution.

[Board of Command]

I don't think anyone on Earth has an IQ of 206

[complich8]

Now, you and I both know that IQ doesn't mean a damned thing. Let's go back on topic a little bit. Here, I'll start.

I'd like to point out that everyone has his own mode of communication. If KitKat types in perfect, grammatically correct sentences, that's great, unambiguous, and makes the reading that much easier. If -Sharingan-Kakashi- refuses to touch the shift key for fear it'll twist his hands out of shape, that's fine too.

There's mechanics and there's semantics. You can deviate from the basic mechanics of the language (within tolerances) without terribly impacting the semantics -- that is, without burying your signal in the noise. The problem arises when people forget that as you deviate more from a basic grammatical structure, you make your communication harder to parse. Regardless of your level of intelligence, or how other people perceive you, it simply takes more effort to figure out what the hell you're talking about.

Of course, sometimes it ends up being the same thing in the other direction. Sometimes if you stick to mechanical precision you lose meaning by closing off "incorrect" devices.

The important things in the whole of communication are clarity and balance. If you're in such a hurry to cram your hundred or so characters into the reply box and hit enter that you can't stop to reread what you just wrote and ask yourself "will someone else understand what the fuck I'm saying", you probably aren't saying anything valuable anyway.

And realizing that we're all cognitively lazy, if you see something that just jumps out at you as unparseable, you're not going to bother! Even if you've got the meaning of life encapsulated in a thousand words or less, if you're not using basic tools to make that readable (paragraph breaks, decipherable spellings, some sort of followable narrative flow), I'm not going to bother reading it. Why? Because it's way too much effort for something that's probably not worth it.

My philosophy is to type like I speak. That means, if I would normally pause at some point in a sentence, I indicate that somehow -- with ellipses, commas, dashes, whatever. If I'm going to make a side comment, I break it out with either dashes or parentheses. Why? Because it makes it easier for you to sort of "hear" what I'm saying. By expressing my nonverbal cues typographically, I can get my meaning across more precisely. And that's really what it's all about. But if you achieve the goal without perfect syntax, that's perfectly fine too.

[GhostKaGe]

Originally posted by: BOARD_of_command
I don't think anyone on Earth has an IQ of 206

worlds highest mensa certified IQ is held by Sho Yano

Sho Yano (born c. 1991, Portland, Oregon) is a Japanese American and Korean American boy who at the age of 12 held the title of world's highest recorded IQ with a figure so high that it was unmeasurable. He reportedly played Chopin on the piano at age 3. After scoring 1500 on the SAT at age 8, he entered Loyola University at age 9, graduating magna cum laude at age 12, and now attends the Pritzker School of Medicine at the University of Chicago on a full scholarship.

Many kids skip a grade. SHO YANO has skipped about 10! The 12-year-old is studying to be a doctor. He's the youngest student ever to go to the University of Chicago Medical School, in Illinois. His classmates, who are much older, treat him "like a little brother," he explains. Sho graduated from college last year. He says his smarts are no big deal. Like other kids, he loves to read and play piano. "Some friends treat me like a walking dictionary," Sho says, "but I'm just a regular kid."

the previous highest iq before him was 228 and was held by Marilyn vos Savant

[Y]

vos Savant's adjusted IQ is 180 anyway, and this guy is off the scale.

[Board of Command]

Wow that's amazing. The kid must see the world in a whole different way than us.

[Deblas]

12 years old and already a college graduate. That is something. You think patients will take him seriously though. Even if he's has a degree people are more motivated by appearance.

[Y]

Originally posted by: BOARD_of_command
Wow that's amazing. The kid must see the world in a whole different way than us.

Well, yes. Even "normal" geniuses are usually social retards (I mean that in a non-offensive context).

[ChaosK]

since we were speaking about acronyms or slang, would someone care to tell me what 133T is or (LEET?) if its a normal word then i just dont know it, but if someone could tell me what it means i'd appreciate it since i see it used frequentally on gotwoot.

and that prodigy 12 year old, you cant compare people to him. -sharingan-kakashi- i do not think you really have an IQ of 206 but i will not say it is impossible. i will say this though, if you DO have an IQ of 206 you would be semi-famous because 206 IS extremely high. If u truely did have an IQ of 206 perhaps you would have taken a second to think that maybe typing with correct grammer might help others read what you have to say better. as for the shift thing, i'm not sure anybody here has told you that you MUST use the shift button, and nobody here mentioned that they thought they were better than you for using it.

[Y]

Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
and that prodigy 12 year old, you cant compare people to him. -sharingan-kakashi- i do not think you really have an IQ of 206 but i will not say it is impossible. i will say this though, if you DO have an IQ of 206 you would be semi-famous because 206 IS extremely high. If u truely did have an IQ of 206 perhaps you would have taken a second to think that maybe typing with correct grammer might help others read what you have to say better. as for the shift thing, i'm not sure anybody here has told you that you MUST use the shift button, and nobody here mentioned that they thought they were better than you for using it.

If Sharingan-Kakashi has an IQ of 206, I am a motherfucking Super Saiyan.

[Board of Command]

Nah, super saiyan probably makes you dumber since you'll pop a blood vessel or two in your brain.

[Werder]

Hey Chaoskiddo,

Here's something on l337, I'm just borrowing this link from page 2, from the bottom of Board_of_command's post: Truth about Leet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet)

I read the whole damn thing - it's long, but it's pretty interesting.

I wanted to support you earlier Chaos in those other forums that picked you up on your typing. I'm in the party that says if you can understand it, its fine!

My problem with posting is that I'm not very articulate. I find it really hard to get a clear idea of what I mean across. And I know I'm not stupid (though a certain someone in this forum thinks I'm not worth a shiny nickel).
I just try to make it as clear as possible, and I re-read a few times because I hate making spelling mistakes. But I really don't mind if others make them (its especially funny when someone is bigging themselves up but makes some awful mistakes). I also try not to sound too serious, I'd much rather have a laugh then get into a flame war - though those can be pretty funny to read when you're not involved heh heh heh. I suppose I try do that by using emoticons like Mae pointed out earlier.

This thread has been really interesting to read - keep up the linguistics lessons!

[ChaosK]

hey werder, i'm glad you support me but we worked it all out and i'm okay with typing grammatically correct (at least trying to), its not that big of a deal.

Thank you werder and BOC for helping me understand a bit about "1337." I did not read the whole thing because... well acctually i have no patience but i did get the idea of "1337"

[Board of Command]

Ya, it's basically a language for social outcasts to "look cool".

[Jessper]

Originally posted by: BOARD_of_command
Ya, it's basically a language for social outcasts to "look cool".

I'm a social outcast?! Noooooo!!!

I think you're overreacting about leet, BOC. You may hate the "language" but I see no reason to give a biased definition.

It is a very basic code language that can be used for fun too.

I don't disagree that there are social outcast that use leet in a sad attempt to look cool. Though, I would say that there is a large scale of people that use it, some are on the extremes but the whole idea should not be condemned just for those people.

Personally, my typing has changed a lot over the years. When I was younger I used all the shortcuts and I had awful grammar, my spelling was horrific to add to the pile. Since then I have changed the way I type significantly and I would believe most of it was due to peer pressure. One of the Tribes 2 servers I played on a lot had a lot of older people that jokingly ridiculed me about poor spelling and shortcuts which weeded out my problems by pushing me to a higher standard.

So, in my mind, acceptable typing and what is perceived by your typing is largely related to the group of people reading your text. As such I would not create a rule so general that it covers the whole internet, instead I would perhaps cover the acceptance of different types on this board.

[Board of Command]

It's ok if you just use it sarcastically, but problems arise when you start having fun typing in l33t...

[GhostKaGe]

Leet speak translator (http://www.ogobin.org/tmp/31337.php)

To be honest i fail to see the need to use leetspeak seems to me to be pointless.
Leetspeak's mostly used by 13year old losers trying to be cool.

[basey44]

i fail to see how leet is cool

[SK]

|_&&|$|>&@|\{ !$ ||-|& $|-|!| y()|_| _||_|$| \^/!$|-| y()|_| (()|_||_|) $|>&@|\{ !|!11

[Lefty]

Originally posted by: basey_69
i fail to see how leet is cool

It's not. It's for little kids that want to seem cool but make them sleves look even more stupid than if thye were to use real words.

[KitKat]

Leet is an interesting form of slang in that it is written rather than spoken. As with most types of slang though, it tends to be used mostly by one certain group of people. By using a group's slang, you identify yourself with that group, which might be a good thing if you are talking to teenage gamers, but could be a bad thing if you are trying to have a comprehensible discussion. Bah, I have so much more to say, but I have to get back to studying for exams. I'll come back to this discussion next week when I'm done school.

[SK]

leet actually started as a slang used by hackers, not by gamers...

[LobsterMagnet]

One linguistic trend that's really been pissing me off is when little kids call anything they don't like gay.

"Hey man that river is like so gay lets not swim in it or else it'll get it's gayness all over us."

"This is so gay"

"Stop being so gay"

Grrrrrr really angers me makes me want to hit them.

[2:25]

Good point about the "gay" word. It annoys me too.

And how did "dope" ever replace the word "cool"?

[Assertn]

blame rap

[Cal_kashi]

I think an important factor that hasn't been discussed yet is that people pick up the mannerims of those that they spend the most time talking to, both in person and on the computer. Now if the majority of the typing/communicating that one does is over aim w/ a bunch 12yo who still find novelty in speaking like goofs cuz they're little, then that will come accross when posting to a forum. Likewise if most computer communication is done in the ever painful realms of CS and EE labs, you will infact find alotta ppl th47 u53 1337 sp3ak because its just the way that we communicate in the labs, it doesn't take any extra effort and we enjoy it. A final factor is just how much someone cares about how they are percieved by others on the forum, are you just trying to state ur opinion, are you trying to connect with the forum so that u feel like part of a larger group, if so do you think ur thoughts/musings or opinions will be discounted on the basis of the nature in which it is conveyed, or the content? Finally, im sure some of us just browse the forim when we have spare time or are pretty tired, and being tired can easily lead to bad grammar and not giving a $hit about it.

[basey44]

Originally posted by: Cal_kashi
Finally, im sure some of us just browse the forim when we have spare time or are pretty tired, and being tired can easily lead to bad grammar and not giving a $hit about it.

yea but if ur using leet then isnt that more effort? bah stupid 12 years olds
and stupid rap for using the word dope
i still use gay though, its still good, its still good. well i spose if ya dont like it ill use ghey

[Cal_kashi]

1337 doesn't take more effort when you are tired, if it comes naturally.

[SK]

lol dope is like 10 years old, no one uses that shit anymore. btw if u think rap sucks your wrong.

[Assertn]

what? dont put words in my mouth....
saying "blame rap" is different than saying "rap sucks"

although i do think rappers get more credit than they deserve for their work

[r3n]

there are things spelt incorrectly here purely cos you guys speak american english (fair enough...). what makes me laugh though, is that the americans have the cheek to officially change words like sulphur to "sulfur" because some of them are too retarded to remember that ph = f. next thing you know, telephone will officially be "telefone" in america. soon youll all just speak phenetically.

also the way you say "aloominum" annoys me no end

when it comes to using capital letters, apostrophes, and periods etc. in the correct places in a sentance, i couldnt really care less most of the time, but what does annoy me is when ppl use the wrong version of there/their/theyre. dont know why, just annoys me.

[Board of Command]

I also find it strange that millions of English users still fail to learn the difference between "there" and "their".

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: r3n
there are things spelt incorrectly here purely cos you guys speak american english (fair enough...). what makes me laugh though, is that the americans have the cheek to officially change words like sulphur to "sulfur" because some of them are too retarded to remember that ph = f. next thing you know, telephone will officially be "telefone" in america. soon youll all just speak phenetically.

also the way you say "aloominum" annoys me no end

when it comes to using capital letters, apostrophes, and periods etc. in the correct places in a sentance, i couldnt really care less most of the time, but what does annoy me is when ppl use the wrong version of there/their/theyre. dont know why, just annoys me.

wait......you guys actually spell it "aloominum"? NOOBS!!!

why dont you go colour some sigs for us.....

[ChaosK]

i always thought colour was like british or something because its in some books by british authors... O_O

[SK]

wasnt talken to you assert, its not all about you.

[r3n]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure


Originally posted by: r3n
there are things spelt incorrectly here purely cos you guys speak american english (fair enough...). what makes me laugh though, is that the americans have the cheek to officially change words like sulphur to "sulfur" because some of them are too retarded to remember that ph = f. next thing you know, telephone will officially be "telefone" in america. soon youll all just speak phenetically.

also the way you say "aloominum" annoys me no end

when it comes to using capital letters, apostrophes, and periods etc. in the correct places in a sentance, i couldnt really care less most of the time, but what does annoy me is when ppl use the wrong version of there/their/theyre. dont know why, just annoys me.

wait......you guys actually spell it "aloominum"? NOOBS!!!

why dont you go colour some sigs for us.....

no, thats how YOU pronounce it. we spell it aluminium, you guys forgot the extra i. we pronounce it "al you min eum"

yeah colour is originally spelt colour, seems to have lost a letter in the cross over the atlantic. you yanks also like your Z's - "colorize" etc. we say "colourise", and theres a couple of other spellings you guys thought needed changed (for _whatever_ reason)

[Board of Command]

I like the American modifications because they're lazy and took out a few letters. Makes it easier to write. I'm among the 1% of Canadians that write "color" instead of "colour", and all other words where the "u" was removed.

[r3n]

well you suck then BOC! canada is viewed as america without the dickheads, and you're going and messing that all up. well sorta

[basey44]

wait a minute, canadians can write?
i thought they just rode around on horses in the mountee uniform

[Assertn]

wow r3n, you like to vent alot of ignorance all over the forums, dont you?
you find the smallest excuses to express your biased hatred to another country

go bloke yourself

[SK]

lol why do europeans hate americans so much, jealous bastards wouldent even be alive right now if it wasnt for us.
Btw i thought brits liked us?

[r3n]

nope, just our prime minister, and nobody likes him. and where would you have been without us in world war 3? (as stolen from the simpsons). we arent jealous, infact had i the choice id rather not be born in the USA OR the UK and instead somewhere like scandinavia/holland. most of europe just doesnt like your president and think hes unsafe to be in charge of the most powerful country in the world. dont take it personally.

assertn, i have no idea what "go bloke yourself" means, so ill imagine its something innoffensive and nice. i dont vent ignorance, and i know there are obviously shitloads of perfectly decent americans, but then again, the majority of you voted bush back in to another 4 years so.... i dont think im the one being ignorant.

this has nothing to do with writing styles so back on topic...

1337 1S T3h w4Y 4W4|2d y0!!!1!!1!11oneone

[Board of Command]

Like they say, it is one thing to get into office. It's another thing to get in again.

[SK]

who cares, its not like bush is runnin shit anyway, cheney is.

[Assertn]

yeah well im from a state that chose kerry, so stfu =P

[Cal_kashi]

w007 Kerry

[SK]

im from massachusetts which voted 62% kerry and is his home state, so you cant blame me either r3n. europeans fitting americans all into one mold is like me saying all europeans in wwii were nazis.

[r3n]

good for you lot, as i said, im sure loads of americans are perfectly decent ppl. maybe its just the biblebelt people i have problems with.

its true there is a stereotype worldwide which percieves americans as obese, hawaiian shirt-wearing, steak eating truckers, but then again theres similarly degrading stereotypes for brits, french, germans etc.

im a scot so most of the stereotypes about us all wearing kilts, hunting haggises, sipping whisky, throwing the caber etc. are all true. infact i live in a log cabin and use a cup and string for the internet

[Cal_kashi]

i bet you do r3n, but have you ever chased someone out of your shack with a rake while screamin keep OOT!

[JusDaMan]

See... we need Hilary clinton to be president. or al sharpton. those 2 r the best canidates out there!

but... as u see... The public vote do not matter. it all matters about the electoral vote.

As most of you said. Your state voted for Kerry or Bush during the 2004 elections. That dont mean bull, that's just a publicity stunt of some sort. It all matters about 500 people voting for the persident. in 2000 Al gore got higher POPULAR vote but Bush won because bush got higher ELECTORAL votes.
Just alittle history for you all.

Just sayin... PURE whites do not dominate america as the dominant race anymore. and the "American stereotype" is more of a redneck stereotype.
Asian stereotype is a person who can break boards with their fingers, and owns a restaurant for take out.
Blond stereotype(women) is a big titty woman who is dumb.
Hispanic stereotype is Eating only Rice and beans

Well... I kind of understand where all these hate comes from but... whatevers. Aaahahha

[KitKat]

Alright, let's get back on topic here. I think that Cal_kashi made a really good post a page or so back, about how people start to pick up the mannerisms of the people that they hang out with, whether online or in real life. The actual linguistic term for this is assimilation. Whether consciously (more often for written speech) or subconsciously (usually in spoken conversation) we adapt our speech patterns to be more similar to those of the people we are conversing with. Some people assimilate more than others. For instance, I'm a pretty fast assimilator and pick up a lot of my friends' expressions fairly quickly. Also, when I was in Scotland for 2 weeks I was speaking with a Scottish accent by the end, or whenever I hang out with my American friends for a day I'll find my vowels in words like 'house' and 'about' slipping towards the American pronunciation.

Another less well known linguistic process is that of dissimilation. This happens when you consciously or subconsiously change your speech patterns to be less like those of the person you are talking to. Typically, this will happen if you are speaking with someone you don't like, or if for some reason you want to distance yourself from them.

[Cyberdude93]

(Continuing from KitKat's reply in this topic (http://forums.gotwoot.net/messageview.cfm?catid=4&threadid=15063&STARTPAGE=5 ) and topic bumped with permission)



Originally posted by: KitKat


Originally posted by: Cyberdude93


Originally posted by: KitKat
Say the word 'pat' and then the word 'spat' with your hand in front of your mouth. You'll notice that you feel a little puff of air from the p when you say the word 'pat' but not when you say the word 'spat'.

Judging by everything else you said, you're clearly an expert on the subject. However I feel no difference. Is it because you're in Canada (saw your profile =P) and I'm Scottish? Also one of my English friends has it the same.


That's a good point. I should have qualified that to apply to North American dialects of English. Small features like this are the ones that change the most between dialects, since they don't affect meaning. Just out of curiosity, do you pronounce them both aspirated, or both unaspirated? And I guess this is a little off-topic.... I created a thread for linguistic discussion a while ago, so if you want you can respond there.
Linguistic discussion (http://forums.gotwoot.net/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=14442&STARTPAGE= 1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear)



Er, sorry for the slow reply. I saw your reply the day after you posted it but didn't have time to reply then. Anyway I pronounce them both with the puff (aspirated if I read correctly). Although regardless of me mentioning I'm Scottish my accent is unique and not considered Scottish.

[Board of Command]

That seems pretty irrelevant to me, but thanks anyways for reviving one of the more interesting threads on this forum.

[Cyberdude93]

Originally posted by: BOARD_of_command
That seems pretty irrelevant to me, but thanks anyways for reviving one of the more interesting threads on this forum.

I was told to reply here, so it's not my fault if it's irrelevant.

[KitKat]

Maybe it seems irrelevant to some, but not to a linguist. I love finding these things out. The more you can understand language, the more you can understand people. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Cyberdude, what region of Scotland are you from? And why is your accent unique? From isolation or from outside influences? (This is assuming your accent is regional. If it's just you or your family that speaks that way, then that's different.) It still might be considered 'Scottish', but placed on the edge of the dialect continuum.

[Assertn]

wow.....i dont think i can aspirate "spat" even if i try i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

[Kezren]

hmm I aspirate both. and that I know of I speak english with an american Dialect.

[ChibiYali]

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

----
Thought this fitted in quite well i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[complich8]

Originally posted by: KitKat
Maybe it seems irrelevant to some, but not to a linguist.

What sort of linguist? A .... cunning linguist?

Err, nevermind i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif.



[/i](un)Originally posted by: ChibiYali[/i] stuff

Yeah, gotta love having a versatile brain and an alphabetic language (instead of a pictographic one). kinda .... old though.

[KitKat]

complich8, you get the prize for worst pun at the forum i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

ChibiYali, it's fascinating, isn't it? Here's another interesting fact that all of you may be less familiar with...

In conversations between two men, or conversations between two women, interruptions are evenly distributed. That is, each person is responsible for about half of the interruptions in the conversation. However, in mixed gender conversations, when a man and a woman are talking, the man is responsible for more of the interruptions. And not just a little bit more either, but an average of 90% of the interruptions. Some sociolinguists explain this based on the typical differences in reasons why men and women engage in conversation (women primarily use conversation to build relationships whereas men use conversation to establish social status). They theorise that men use interruptions as a way of exercising power over female speakers and establishing dominance. Personally, I think that it's probably more likely due to the fact that women talk so much that men have to interrupt to get a word in edgewise. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[ChibiYali]

Originally posted by: complich8




[/i](un)Originally posted by: ChibiYali[/i] stuff

Yeah, gotta love having a versatile brain and an alphabetic language (instead of a pictographic one). kinda .... old though.

I know it's old.. but this was a linguistics thread, and that part has interested me for a while now...
So thought I'd throw it in *shrugs*

[The Heretic Azazel]

Originally posted by: complich8
[quote]
Originally posted by: KitKat
Maybe it seems irrelevant to some, but not to a linguist.

What sort of linguist? A .... cunning linguist?[/IMG].

It took five pages for someone to bring this joke up?? Come on people you're slacking.

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: KitKat
They theorise that men use interruptions as a way of exercising power over female speakers and establishing dominance.

I hate bullshit like that, everything just boils to how the man wants dominance over the woman and so on and so forth. Sure, many similar things can probably be explained that way due to our nature ("we are humans, men are the leader of the pack" etc) but frankly it feels like many things just boil down to "men want dominance".

Basically I agree with your theory more i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif
But then again, a female will have to be very good with talking nonsense if she wants to keep up with my wordery. Then again, it's not entirely certain which gender block I fall into now is it? i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
blah blah blah

alright....who let the resident feminist in here?

[Souryusen]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure


Originally posted by: Terracosmo
blah blah blah

alright....who let the resident feminist in here?

Don't worry, I gave her a stern fucking last night.


She won't cause any more trouble.

[danholo]

I guess most smart people are lazy no matter how you look at it. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

I find linguistics interesting myself and I don't really understand how people "write like they talk" over the Internet. For one to be clear in what they are trying to convey, I would suggest everyone use standard English when typing their arguments/messages, especially on open forums like this one, where people don't know each other.

[Cyberdude93]

Originally posted by: KitKat
Cyberdude, what region of Scotland are you from? And why is your accent unique? From isolation or from outside influences? (This is assuming your accent is regional. If it's just you or your family that speaks that way, then that's different.) It still might be considered 'Scottish', but placed on the edge of the dialect continuum.

First, I'm from Edinburgh. Secondly, well I'm not sure really. Some of my family think that I watched too much American TV when I was young and hence developed one closer to that. You could call it isolation because I never really went out and socialised with many people. Personally I think it's different because it's very clear, for example I never use and am not used to using dialect specific words such as "dinnae" for "don't".

When I was in Scotland at times I didn't even understand strong Scottish accents, so that reduces the chance of me speaking in one too =P

Anyway I know that's a crap (or even biased) explaination, so apologies =P. I'll be happy to answer further.

[Terracosmo]

Wtf feminist? I tried to defend males you fucktards i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[Souryusen]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Wtf feminist? I tried to defend males you fucktards

Whatever. I still worked you over good, ya dirty girl.

[Astronopolis]

lol cunning linguist cunnilingus

[Def_X]

Originally posted by: KitKat
complich8, you get the prize for worst pun at the forum

ChibiYali, it's fascinating, isn't it? Here's another interesting fact that all of you may be less familiar with...

In conversations between two men, or conversations between two women, interruptions are evenly distributed. That is, each person is responsible for about half of the interruptions in the conversation. However, in mixed gender conversations, when a man and a woman are talking, the man is responsible for more of the interruptions. And not just a little bit more either, but an average of 90% of the interruptions. Some sociolinguists explain this based on the typical differences in reasons why men and women engage in conversation (women primarily use conversation to build relationships whereas men use conversation to establish social status). They theorise that men use interruptions as a way of exercising power over female speakers and establishing dominance. Personally, I think that it's probably more likely due to the fact that women talk so much that men have to interrupt to get a word in edgewise.

As a Soc major I feel obligated to reply. I personally would say the men tend to want straightforward conversation instead of walking around a subject. As you said most women use language both verbal and body" to convey feeling. Men use physical gestures "fixing stuff, presents, and touching The interruptions may spawn for a need to ensure everyone involved understands the point. The man feels no need to elongate the conversation.

Back to the issue of literacy on the Internet and more specifically in this forum, I personally do check what I write in "Word" before I post. I also give it a quick read before I post. Is it too much? It might be but at least I can be sure what I post is what I wanted everyone to read. I'd be the first to say I have the worst English skills, but if you want to make it in this Country you need to know how to work on your weaknesses.
About a year ago when I was posting in like 10+ forums, talking in chat rooms, gaming, and stopped reading every night. I noticed the quality of my school reports was going down, and I was getting lower grades. Thats when I really noticed the bad grammar and spelling I would use online. Instead of stopping my use of the Internet I began to take my time and type clear phrases and use the best possible spelling. My grades began to rise again. I know it sounds cliché and lame but it really helped. While I do still make a lot of errors but grammatically and in spelling, the simple extra care I put into my typing has helped.

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: Souryusen


Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Wtf feminist? I tried to defend males you fucktards

Whatever. I still worked you over good, ya dirty girl.

haha......good thing someone bumped this back up......i almost missed these little nuggets of quality posting i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif



Originally posted by: Astronopolis
lol cunning linguist cunnilingus

And the last horse crosses the finish line

[complich8]

Originally posted by: Def_X
About a year ago when I was posting in like 10+ forums, talking in chat rooms, gaming, and stopped reading every night. I noticed the quality of my school reports was going down, and I was getting lower grades. Thats when I really noticed the bad grammar and spelling I would use online. Instead of stopping my use of the Internet I began to take my time and type clear phrases and use the best possible spelling. My grades began to rise again. I know it sounds cliché and lame but it really helped. While I do still make a lot of errors but grammatically and in spelling, the simple extra care I put into my typing has helped.

that's what _I'm_ saying ...

or rather, what I've said in the past. All of these people who post terrible, TERRIBLE content with no flow, no spelling, in "look at me, I'm in the 7th grade now" mode don't realize how destructive it is to their own minds to let themselves live in that mode of operation.

If you want to become strong, you work out. If you want to become mentally strong, you think a lot. If you want to be passable at writing, you make an effort to write clearly and sensibly.

Back when I was screening editor and qc applicants for animeone (yikes .... it's already been almost 2 years since I dumped that drudge-work), I spent a lot of time talking with the people applying. As you'd expect, everyone believed they'd make a good editor or a reliable quality checker. And I'd say maybe one in thirty actually would. But what was interesting was that in five minutes of conversation with a person, I could almost always tell right away whether the person was going to pass or fail the test. Without even looking at it,

At first I wasn't sure there was a correlation. But there definitely is. People who were writing "u" instead of "you", missing simple stuff like apostrophes in contractions, and generally opting for low-return shortcuts over the extra two or three keystrokes per line it would take to take the "long road" would miss the same stuff in their tests, and generally give worse quality results. Conversely, people who were spelling words out, writing complete sentences, taking the long road in general and doing so consistently were giving much, much better tests back, usually in less time, with higher correct detection rates and much, MUCH fewer false detections.

Our thoughts are bound by our language. Dull, imprecise language is the expression of dull, imprecise thoughts. And if you fall into the habit of using either side of the coin, you'll end up getting the other side, whether you wanted it or not.

(Sort of rings of the eightfold path though ...)

[The Heretic Azazel]

but lol ppl rite taht way b/c they kan, not b/c tehy dont no how!

[Assertn]

aone gives out tests for QC? o.O

[complich8]

used to .... and I used to be one of the screeners for them.

They still use a test for basic qc skills. I am pretty sure they're using different tests than the ones I used to deal with though.

[hiddenpookie]

You shouldnt judge people by there typeing its dumb. i may mispell in the web like hell but in real life when i am writeing in print i never misspell. but the keyboard is gay imo lol.

i say f*** the way people type as long as u can undertsand it.

If i wanted to reminded or be taught how to type i would go to school.

But. the ultimate counter-attack for what i have stated above ^^^^^..

is....
-If your not going to spend your time writeing ur posts right why should i waist my fucking time reading them?-

Yay i owned myself.

anyway instead of flaming them correct them? if your not going to correct them but flame them. then F**** off.

[The Heretic Azazel]

Yeah, no one buys that bullshit, if you can't type with a little thought put into it then you shouldn't be allowed on a damn computer at all.

[Def_X]

Originally posted by: hiddenpookie
-If your not going to spend your time writeing ur posts right why should i waist my fucking time reading them?-

waist -
The part of the human trunk between the bottom of the rib cage and the pelvis.
The narrow part of the abdomen of an insect.

The part of a garment that encircles the waist of the body.
The upper part of a garment, extending from the shoulders to the waistline, especially the bodice of a woman's dress.
A blouse.
A child's undershirt.
The middle section or part of an object, especially when narrower than the rest.
Nautical. The middle part of the upper deck of a ship between the forecastle and the quarterdeck.


waste-
To use, consume, spend, or expend thoughtlessly or carelessly.
To cause to lose energy, strength, or vigor; exhaust, tire, or enfeeble: Disease wasted his body.
To fail to take advantage of or use for profit; lose: waste an opportunity.

To destroy completely.
Slang. To kill; murder.

v. intr.
To lose energy, strength, weight, or vigor; become weak or enfeebled: wasting away from an illness.
To pass without being put to use: Time is wasting.

n.
The act or an instance of wasting or the condition of being wasted: a waste of talent; gone to waste.
A place, region, or land that is uninhabited or uncultivated; a desert or wilderness.
A devastated or destroyed region, town, or building; a ruin.

An unusable or unwanted substance or material, such as a waste product.
Something, such as steam, that escapes without being used.
Garbage; trash.
The undigested residue of food eliminated from the body; excrement.

adj.
Regarded or discarded as worthless or useless: waste trimmings.
Used as a conveyance or container for refuse: a waste bin.
Excreted from the body: waste matter.

Idiom:
waste (one's) breath
To gain or accomplish nothing by speaking.

Sorry I had to use the open invite. ^_^
It's not that I want to flame anyone who makes a mistake on their post, it's just the time and effort to at least read over each post once would be greatly appreciated. Just make sure you can understand yourself before you post. Maybe if people spent that extra time most forum users wouldn't just skip to the last page and re-post something that has been said a million times already on a thread.

[complich8]

Originally posted by: hiddenpookie
You shouldn't judge people by their typing, it's dumb. I may misspell on the web like hell, but in real life when I am writing <snip, redundant> I never misspell anything. But the keyboard is gay, imo lol.

I say f*** the way people type, as long as you can undertsand it.

If i wanted to be reminded or <snip> taught how to type i would go to school.

But. the ultimate counter-attack for what i have stated above ^^^^^..

is....
-If you're not going to spend your time writing your posts right why should I waste my fucking time reading them?-

Yay, i owned myself.

anyway instead of flaming them, correct them. if you're not going to correct them but flame them. then F**** off.


I disagree, both with the concept that you shouldn't judge people by their writing style, and that you should take time correcting people. And I'll explain why.

First of all, like I already said, when you get into a certain mode, used to the same shortcuts, etc, you tend to continue using them. When you're writing, you don't painstakingly select every word. Many elements of language are automatic. Things like selection of prepositions, word arrangements, common words. When you're writing these things, you tend to write them the same way, no matter what the medium is. If you're a terrible writer, who has otherwise good mastery of spoken language, then what's stopping you from just writing the way you'd speak? This particularly applies to grammatical constructs.

If you're writing grammatically correct but horribly misspelled sentences, that's one thing. But if you're writing badly formed sentences (as opposed to badly spelled ones), it really IS a good indicator that you don't know how to compose well-formed ones.

Either way, it's particularly obvious that you don't want people who can't spell and can't compose clear and correct sentences to be editing the work of other people who can't spell or compose clear and correct sentences. It's like throwing fuel on a fire... it only makes things worse.

For your second point, that forum-goers should correct people when they screw up ... see how irritating it can be? I even omitted stylistic errors, just opting for basic spelling, grammar and punctuation.

It's a good way to completely derail a conversation. Particularly when there's a lot of people screwing up little things. The conversation can still go on, or it can go completely off-topic, as people who absolutely don't care about how they're butchering their own language continue to do so, and people who're obsessed with correcting them do so. What's the point? I'd rather see someone belch a quick flame and get back on topic than see that sort of endless, irritating digression, you know?

[Jessper]

On the same point complich was running on: When you mix up words that sound similar (ex. waist, waste, to, too, ect.) there is little chance it was simply because it is an internet forum. So it is possible to establish an idea of the abilities a person has based on their messages on a forum.

[Mut]

Guys... stop not using capitals and stop using stupid internet substitutions for words. It's really fucking annoying to see a whole paragraph or even a small sentence written without any capitalization. On top of that, a lot of you are using substitutions for "you", "why", "to", and etc.

FUCKING STOP.

[Assassin]

Originally posted by: Mut@chi
Guys... stop not using capitals and stop using stupid internet substitutions for words. It's really fucking annoying to see a whole paragraph or even a small sentence written without any capitalization. On top of that, a lot of you are using substitutions for "you", "why", "to", and etc.

FUCKING STOP.


y shud i stop? internet substitutions are meant 2 b used on the internet. if u'r so annoyed, then get off teh net n00b >_> lololo!!!!1

rofl!!! jus jking!! ^_^

[Astronopolis]

This thread used to be intellectual and interesting, now its deteriorated into something completey retarded and gay. Thanks guys, you're all assholes.

[Munsu]

No problem..

When I find something that you've actually contributed to this thread, I'll take your allegations more seriously... all I see from you is a:

"lol cunning linguist cunnilingus"

Way to make this thread more intellectual and interesting...

[KitKat]

I'm not generally bothered by internet short forms, but when they are used excessively in a single post, I admit that I get annoyed trying to read it. Just on a side note, I've been playing a lot of Guild Wars lately. Internet short forms are rampant there. When I need to find some random people to do a quest with me, I look at the way they type first. I only quest with people who type in complete sentences and have good spelling and grammar. People who take the time to communicate clearly in regular conversation are more likely to communicate clearly in a mission and will show good teamwork and strategy skills. I'm sure there are lots of people who use internet short forms and are fabulous players, but it's always a gamble because I never know if they're going to be an asset or a hindrance to the team. However, I've never had a bad experience playing with someone who types well.

[Hikyuu]

In reference to using short forms/ Abbreviations/Acronyms... I recently started an internship at CMS ( centers for medicare & medicaid services) inside the the HIGLAS ( Healthcare Integrated General Ledger Accounting
System) department on the TCG ( Technical Configuration Group) working with UID (User Identification) entry and orginization. From my experience in my brief stay here, the IT (information technology ) industry has become detached from the real world due to overuse of Acornyms and the like. Sentences become cluttered with that jargon as you try to pronounce and decipher these terms all at the same time. I am just glad that the online world is not at this level of uselessness.. Hope no IT people on the forums take offense but it is rediculous..
Kit: Nice topic, Id enjoy someone to breakdown my horrid typing.. see what insight into my persona I could get but no rush, I can bug you later i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif...
P.S. POST 100 i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif w00t w00t >> << .>>

[XanBcoo]

I'm usually bothered by people using "AOL" shortcuts like u, 2, 4, but what really gets me is when really simple contractions are ignored ("im" instead of "I'm") for example. grrr

On the other hand, I think whole sentences in leet are impressive (albeit a little immature), hehe. I can't read that shit at all.

in regards to misspelling, has anyone else read that thing where every word is misspelled, but you can still read it? It has something to do with the fact that we can recognize a word by the first and last letters, and as long as most of the letters are correct, it doesn't matter what order they're in. Becuase we dn't reed snetences adn wrds letler for letter, adn usually only llok at the frist nd laest ltters, our braines pck up the meagnings automtcially. I think that's cool.

But people who generally ignore spelling/grammar rules and speak in "omfg-runon-sentences" piss me off.

[ChaosK]

umm xanbcoo...



Originally posted by: xanbcoo
I was afraid my compy was screwin' up

ironic no? i/expressions/beer.gif

[XanBcoo]

Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
umm xanbcoo...



Originally posted by: xanbcoo
I was afraid my compy was screwin' up

ironic no?



Originally posted by: KitKat
Second example is one of our newer members, Chaoskiddo, who's been hassled for his grammar and spelling recently. The question that was posed to him was why would he use 'wuz' in the place of 'was' since they both have the same amount of letters and hence it's not saving him any time. I think the answer to this lies in fact that language is often used not just to convey information but also to build solidarity between people. One of the ways that this is done, is by having a certain dialect that you use with your friends, with which you relate to each other, but don't necessarily use with outsiders. In my opinion, Chaoskiddo's use of 'wuz' and such, words that he normally uses with his friends, signifies that he regards us as his peers, and is relating to us on that level.


So in response, No. Not really.
And in case you're wondering, I say "compy" in real life - it's not a shortcut.

[ChaosK]

03/21/2005 09:57 PM <---the date and time of kitkat's post. To clear it up i use "was" now. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

my question really should've been "was that sarcasm?"

[SK]

Originally posted by: KitKat
I'm not generally bothered by internet short forms, but when they are used excessively in a single post, I admit that I get annoyed trying to read it. Just on a side note, I've been playing a lot of Guild Wars lately. Internet short forms are rampant there. When I need to find some random people to do a quest with me, I look at the way they type first. I only quest with people who type in complete sentences and have good spelling and grammar. People who take the time to communicate clearly in regular conversation are more likely to communicate clearly in a mission and will show good teamwork and strategy skills. I'm sure there are lots of people who use internet short forms and are fabulous players, but it's always a gamble because I never know if they're going to be an asset or a hindrance to the team. However, I've never had a bad experience playing with someone who types well.

hmm with daoc (dark age of camelot) there was kind of a whole lingo we used there while playing, and used a lot of shortened words etc. like fotm, irl, inc, df, ding, and normal stuff like brb etc. the reason being is daoc is all about rvr, (realm vs realm, team based pvp, player vs player) and when youre fighting you dont really have time to right out everything. another point you made about using the lingo you use with friends here i thought was interesting. i noticed here i talk differently for a couple reasons mostly being so people will understand me and not ask what "this" means. anyway i suppose i write in this way, without capitilization and punctuation, because it feels more laid back to me, and im usually here to chill (relax.)

[XanBcoo]

Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
03/21/2005 09:57 PM <---the date and time of kitkat's post. To clear it up i use "was" now.

my question really should've been "was that sarcasm?"

Hey, I usually respond with well thought out posts (or at least I like to think so, i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif). That was a dumb topic, so I wasn't really being serious anyway. My point is still that there were no "grammatical errors" and the diction I used was reflective of how I'd usually respond to that sort of thing (using "screwin'" instead of "screwing").
If I had I meant to sound sarcastic I would have said something along the lines of: "OMFG THERE IS HAX0R ON T3H LOSE"

[Hikyuu]

Originally posted by: xanbcoo
"OMFG THERE IS HAX0R ON T3H LOSE"
0//\/\\6z!1!!1!!oneone!! WHREE i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif

P.S (Post.. something) Why is this thread not being pposted on.. it was such an interesting topic. Has it lost its flare already?

[KitKat]

Aha! I have found my thread again! Partly, I just want it to be archived and searchable in the new system. Also, I thought you guys might find this interesting:

We've been learning in my linguistics class about 'empty' or contentless words and phrases. Things that you say, but that don't really mean anything at all. I find it fascinating how accepted the practice of using these words has become in academic fields. Take, for example, the winner of the 1998 Bad Academic Writing Awards, Judith Butler, with her winning sentence:

"The move from a structuralist account in which capital is understood to structure social relations in relatively homologous ways to a view of hegemony in which power relations are subject to repetition, convergence, and rearticulation brought the question of temporality into the thinking of structure, and marked a shift from a form of Althusserian theory that takes structural totalities as theoretical objects to one in which the insights into the contingent possibility of structure inaugurate a renewed conception of hegemony as bound up with the contingent sites and strategies of the rearticulation of power."

I know that I'm often guilty of this, especially if I'm writing a late night lab report, and really have no idea what I'm talking about. I have the advantage of having TA's who don't speak English as a native language, so often I try to confuse them with my verbiage and hope they give me a good mark because they can't be bothered to look up all the words to check to see if I actually know what I'm talking about.

My favourite story though, is of Allan Sokal, a physicist who wrote a paper as a joke and submitted it to a social science academic journal. The paper had no content, but was filled with so much jargon and buzzwords that it managed to get fairly good reviews. It was entitled "Transgressing the Boundaries: Toward a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity," and can be found here: http://www.drizzle.com/~jwalsh/sokal/

And for you comp sci kids, ever wanted to get published but didn't want to go through the trouble of actually writing a paper? Look no farther, SCIgen has come to your rescue! It will generate a random academic paper complete with references, graphs, tables, anything you could ask for in a paper. Check it out! http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/scigen/

[Kraco]

"The move from a structuralist account in which capital is understood to structure social relations in relatively homologous ways to a view of hegemony in which power relations are subject to repetition, convergence, and rearticulation brought the question of temporality into the thinking of structure, and marked a shift from a form of Althusserian theory that takes structural totalities as theoretical objects to one in which the insights into the contingent possibility of structure inaugurate a renewed conception of hegemony as bound up with the contingent sites and strategies of the rearticulation of power."

No human beings with a statistically normal brain and thought pattern would remember how that sentence began, or what was the idea of the whole thing, when they reach the end (if they manage to reach the end, that is).

It needs to be remembered, though, that only a minority of researchers actually research linguistics or anything related to that like literature and such. The rest study some other, specific subjects and it's not their highest priority to be concerned about the shape and beauty of the language they write. Ideally published articles will aid other researchers / research groups. If an article is very badly written, it fails to deliver the information, and it will be forgotten faster than its more nicely written competitors.

[ChaosK]

ah yes, the first thread revolving around me when i first joined. :)

[Terracosmo]

ah yes, the first thread revolving around me when i first joined. :)

Yeah, you were even more annoying back then.



*evil laugh*

[ChaosK]

:( i like to feel important. You suck terra.

[KitKat]

Hey now, let's try to stay on topic here.

If any of you felt a little overwhelmed by the academic paper generator, there are a lot of smaller variations on that theme. In particular, check out the sloganizer: http://www.sloganizer.net/en/
Just input a name, or any noun, and see how much commercial opportunity you have!
Also, I'm a big fan of Dilbert's mission statement generator: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/games/career/bin/ms.cgi

Fun for everyone!

[xDarkMaster]

Hey now, let's try to stay on topic here.

If any of you felt a little overwhelmed by the academic paper generator, there are a lot of smaller variations on that theme. In particular, check out the sloganizer: http://www.sloganizer.net/en/
"Naughty little xDarkMaster."

LOL

[Terracosmo]

"Terracosmo - Just like heaven"

LMAO destiny

[IFHTT]

"Ifinghatetonton inside you."

WTF???? That sounds more like porn title than a slogan if you ask me.

[Deblas]

"Deblas- You see this name, you think dirty"......I like these slogans!

[ChaosK]

"for the love of chaoskiddo."

??

[Kraco]

Hey now, let's try to stay on topic here.

If any of you felt a little overwhelmed by the academic paper generator, there are a lot of smaller variations on that theme. In particular, check out the sloganizer: http://www.sloganizer.net/en/

"Kraco nonstop."

Hmm... I wonder if this refers to how I can have so many posts in so little time. Or something totally different...

But this sounds very much like the truth:
"With a name like KitKat, it has to be good."

[Mr Squiggles]

"All you need is Mr Squiggles."
nuff said

[masamuneehs]

«Masamuneehs on the outside, tasty on the inside.»
What?
«The original Masamuneehs.»
No shit! Who else would have a fucking name like that?
«I want Masamuneehs and I want it now.»
Now we're talking! :D

[Phoenix20578]

«There is no life without Phoenix.»

LMAO, this is so true :)

[suckitdry]

sloganizer.net
«Suck it dry makes your day.»
you bet i do baby

[KitKat]

I thought I'd bring this thread back, because I read a news article today that reminded me about an issue I've been thinking about for a while.

When I started university (ack, that's nearly 6 years ago now x_X) I wrote a paper on the effect of text forms and IM standards on how people speak and write the English language. At the time, there was much alarm from people who believed the language was degrading due to overused short forms and increased reliance on spell checkers. There hadn't been any studies done, so at that point it was mainly speculation. Now we're seeing the results of a generation who has grown up on instant messaging of all sorts. Those people who argued, "Kids use text speak, but it's only a dialect, and they know how to write properly when they need to," are finding that more and more kids can't use standard English when asked to. And it's not just spelling and grammar that are suffering.
This article details the result of a study done in Ireland. (http://www.cbc.ca/cp/technology/070428/z042811A.html)
The interesting thing to note is that the whole way that they write is being affected. Sentence structure and vocabulary are narrowing, becoming simpler and shorter. It will be interesting to see how the academic community chooses to deal with this. There are schools in Australia that are allowing students to use certain texting short forms on their exams. As much as a linguist I can objectively look at this and call it the natural evolution of the language, it makes me sad to see so much richness and expressiveness being lost. Sometimes, an emoticon just can't covey how you feel like a 10 letter word can.

[XanBcoo]

As much as a linguist I can objectively look at this and call it the natural evolution of the language, it makes me sad to see so much richness and expressiveness being lost. Sometimes, an emoticon just can't covey how you feel like a 10 letter word can.
I was seriously interested to see what you thought about this. It's pretty popular to bash on anyone even mildly supportive of prescriptive grammar, I'm finding.

Also, I'm not surprised by that news in the least. I guess it's harder to enforce "proper" writing skills in a classroom when the kids are using AIM shortcuts and texting-slang on a day-to-day basis among their peers. Actually, I don't know whether to think of it as "slang" or not...and although there is probably some level of mutual intelligibility between kids and text messages and netspeak, it honestly pains me to have to read things like this nearly every single day:

Group Info Name: girls who are jealous:)
Type: Common Interest - Age
Description: This is for the girls that start krapp about girls being whores okay listen here you need too stop this krapp when you are pretty you are going too dresss up & wear short skirts thats if you have the body & these chicks that started this krapp needs too be hit with a little reality you need too get over it okay & you need to learn the definition of whore kk got it & if you want too talk krapp about us go ahead you are just making girls that are pretty more famous you should just live life the way you got it god blessed you with a life so live it & stay out of other people's life:) ok ! you all just need too learn that yeah im going too admit some girls in this world are but 12 year olds please ! okay im 12 & im pretty surei have too deal with this quite a bit & i think it's stupid & some girls need too grow up & stop acting like immiture girls about it you just need too learn who is a whore before you go calling them it because i think it's going too be funny when someone jumps you girls for making comments that arent true :) well i just think yall need too stop trying too bring us down when you are just making yourself look bad :) if girls want too dress like that let them okay & im not saying it's a good thing either it's just girls need too get over being jealous of girls that like too dress up flirt & have a good time just because we do that doesn't mean your a whore ok so you just need too stop all of this krapp :)

I wonder after reading this, how many people actually could read through that and understand it clearly? Perhaps there are even different "dialects" of internet writing?

[Assassin]

honestly, i stopped reading after 4 lines. it causes me physical pain trying to read stuff like that.

[Kraco]

I got a brain tumor and lost my ability to read after one third through.

I consider myself lucky as it spared me from the rest of it.

[Yukimura]

If these girls are 12 they shouldn't be on facebook (I strongly doubt they have parental permission, considering the kind of groups that exist on facebook). Anyway, that article has brought a very interesting issue to my attention. With the proliferation of eEverything younger and younger people are now able to reach out and interact further from home than ever before. Now where this becomes interesting is in commmunication skills. One of the many reasons you can't get a job or go off on your own at that young an age (in most Western countries at least) is because most kids don't know how to communicate properly by that time. This girl is twelve and apparently from Maryland (my state :( ), which means she's had probably 6-7 years of formal education at best, with at least two of those being 'building years' where they just rehashed old stuff. When you look at her writing it's not surprising that she writes like a middle schooler...because she is one.

I think part of this problem is on the majority of people online who are old enough to know a little bit. I think we tend to hold all users to a standard which coincides with about an average 16-18 year old in a developed country with mandatory schooling for all children. The way this affects comunication is still unknown, but I think it's highly possible that what Kitkat is worried about may come to pass. Bolstered by their ability to communicate effectively online with limited knowledge kids might be harder to train in proper language because they can use their pseudo language so effectively amongst themselves and others online. Practice makes perfect, and with the medium of communication shifting from verbal to typed it's possible that languages will be forced to adapt to more keyboard friendly forms.

[XanBcoo]

Bolstered by their ability to communicate effectively online with limited knowledge kids might be harder to train in proper language because they can use their pseudo language so effectively amongst themselves and others online. Practice makes perfect, and with the medium of communication shifting from verbal to typed it's possible that languages will be forced to adapt to more keyboard friendly forms.
Yeah, this pretty much what I was said as well, and clearly it's the case. It's gotten to the point where when I talk to some of my cousins on MSN who text-message all the time, they substitute words and phrases for text-slang when it's not even necessary to shorten the word. They've just gotten used to it, and they're regular writing has changed to fit that.

Pity, because like my example above, the result is pretty incomprehensible.


This girl is twelve and apparently from Maryland (my state ), which means she's had probably 6-7 years of formal education at best, with at least two of those being 'building years' where they just rehashed old stuff. When you look at her writing it's not surprising that she writes like a middle schooler...because she is one.
Here is where I disagree with you. When I was at least 10, I could write more clearly than that. Think of all the essays you had to write in between 5th and 8th grade. The problem is not because she hasn't been taught how to write properly, it's because her everyday conversation (online, or texting, or whatever) interferes with the teaching. I mean, the article KitKat posted is pretty sparse on details (it might just be a bunch of bad English teachers playing the blame-game), but apparently kids are having trouble separating their formal and informal writing.

What pisses me off is that it doesn't even have any regularity to it, so it's not like slang. It's just jumbled. For every 10 kids who write like that, you have to go through and (painstakingly) figure out what they're trying to say. Or maybe I'm coming down too hard and just need to accept the change. I dunno.

[bagandscalpel]

What pisses me off is that it doesn't even have any regularity to it, so it's not like slang. It's just jumbled. For every 10 kids who write like that, you have to go through and (painstakingly) figure out what they're trying to say. Or maybe I'm coming down too hard and just need to accept the change. I dunno.
"Accept the change," huh?

In this case, I find it extremely difficult to take in the perspective of the "other side," simply because it is clearly not progress.

[Kraco]

"Accept the change," huh?

In this case, I find it extremely difficult to take in the perspective of the "other side," simply because it is clearly not progress.

Dunno. While I would never want to accept a change that huge, still the written language changes. My favorite example is Lord of the Rings. If you compare it to modern fantasy novels, there's quite a difference. Now, it has been said Tolkien didn't write exactly main stream language, but nevertheless he was a professor of the English language and literature.

Still, I highly doubt any of us will live to see a day when that manner of AIM and miserable teenager blog language will appear on the pages of newspapers, books, magazines, operation manuals and such. In the end, most people never need to write official publications. People of higher education inevitably need to create articles, presentations, and papers during education and later work, but even so their particular language only needs to be good enough to be perfectly understandable and clear and able to convey the message (except for those specializing in literature, which might have totally different requirements).

So, even if those problematic people never learn to write properly, they can still read properly as much as they need, and above all, they can keep communicating with their brethren using their new, broken language.

[gr3atfull]

I agree with the whole chat language thing, but I also think that less and less kids are reading books is also a factor. People get their vocabulary from there. They also improve their style of writing too.

[Spiegel]

I agree with the whole chat language thing, but I also think that less and less kids are reading books is also a factor. People get their vocabulary from there. They also improve their style of writing too.

I completely agree with this post. I used to read a book a week or two and now I have not read a book in a few months. The main reason is I have not found one that really captures my interest since Ender's Game. I need to get back into reading, I believe my vocabulary and conversational skills are suffering greatly from the lack of books. I have found that the movie and anime versions of a lot of todays reading materials have become more dominant and less ancillary (Thank you to todays vocabulary lesson in school) to the reading material in my day to day life. I guess the next step in my process is to ask if anyone could recommend a book for me. Figure it will be comparable to Ender's Game and just as capturing.

[Yukimura]

If you liked the existential aspects of Ender's Game (the stuff in the game, the question of whether it's okay to wipe out an entire species) read the next three books of the Ender series (Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind). If you like the wits and strategy aspect read the Bean books (Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Hegemon, Shadow Puppets, and Shadow of the Giant).

[Spiegel]

I remember distinctly starting Ender's Shadow, but I never got into it. I might go out and try Speaker for the Dead or that line of books next time I am out near the bookstore.

[KitKat]

Xan, you're right about the inconsistency, I hadn't thought about that before. It also seems to me that each online or regional community spawns its own written dialects that people will go and use elsewhere, but will mean nothing to their readers. As an example, I once used the word 'Hax' as a joke in a powerpoint presentation, and one of the questions I got at the end was, "What is hax?" No one in my class knew. In the past, dialects developed only within physical regions, so as language changed, it changed as a whole for villages, provinces, or countries. With global communication possible, we're seeing dialects among people with similar interests, but who live physically very far apart, which could cause confusion and fragmentation of regional language.

As for the Facebook example Xan posted, one of the things that makes it so hard to read is that there are no sentences. Even when I was in Grade 1 I could write in sentences. I never saw any writing that wasn't sentences, so it never even occurred to me to write otherwise. When communication becomes conversational, as in IM and texts, sentences get blurred out. Although the paragraph might make sense when read aloud, it's horrific to attempt to read. This is definitely a new development in writing from when we were that age.

Oh, and I agree wholeheartedly with gr3atfull. Books are so important, and the level of writing online rarely compares to that of good published literature. When I went to university I didn't have time to read anymore, and the difference was blatantly obvious in my writing as a result, even over such a relatively short time period. *shakes fist at engineering*

[Ryllharu]

I think it's a good point that you bring up Ender's game specifically. If you read the chapter where he returns to Earth to visit with Valentine, or any of the books in the Shadow series, all the trainees in Battle School developed their own slang, to the point that most people on Earth had difficulty understanding them. It was a multilingual slang, jeesh, the exclusive use of "bugger" over "Formics" and a lot of simple words taken from Japanese, Spanish (Bonso's influence) a lot of Portuguese, and middle eastern/southeast asian dialects, the last one especially in the Shadow series. Then reading the last 3 of the Ender saga (Speaker, Xenocide, Children of the Mind), a couple of the terms were incorporated for millennia.

It's always been the same. The English language, (and presumably others as well) has been under a long chain of compressions and simplifications. We all use a lot more contractions than people did in the 18th century. We use more than the people in the 1950's for that matter. Just compare a Shakespearian insult to an equivalent one. "Beauty starv'd with [your] severity Cuts beauty off from all posterity." and "You're ugly and your kids will be." Granted, Shakespeare is not exactly colloquial language of that time, but it is a fairly good indicator. Our words have always gotten progressively shorter, and we can convey our ideas in fewer words.

Yes, it does tend to grant less specific meanings to any idea, and it sure as hell doesn't sound as good, but it is just development. Consider American English to Oxford English. Since Webster rewrote our dictionary, the two variants have become considerably divergent. Beyond not spelling color with a 'u', the colloquial languages use dramatically different subsets of words. It's the same for Australian English. It's not hard (typically) for well read and educated people to perfectly understand what is being said, but I can't understand heavy British slang when it's covered with a thick accent unless I concentrate really hard. It's the same in Japanese, with thick Hiroshima and Kansai dialects compared to the Kanto dialect.

Overall, there is a bit of a dumbing down, but it's not much more than the slow infection of pop culture, as it has always been over the years.

I always make time to read something, even with my engineering workload. I can thank a strong case of bibliophilia for that. Manga and online literature takes the place when I don't have time for a physical book.