Kakashi : Bad Teacher?

[MemnochTheCaT]

Kakashi is one of my favorite characters in the series, even though he hasn't had much to do lately.

I was looking back over the series and I think that Kakashi is actually a pretty bad teacher. I think he's much better suited to leading missions than to being responsible for training ninjas. Let's look at what he did with team 7 :

Naruto - Basically didn't teach him anything, Naruto's progress has been more or less due to his personal ambition and rivalry with Sasuke. I think the funniest thing Kakashi taught Naruto was the 1000 years of pain, I about died when he did that to Gaara! Lol.

Sakura - Wow. Absolutely nothing.

Sasuke - Indisputably his best work was done with Sasuke, which is also a huge problem. You think he would have noticed Sasuke's severe mental problems, and dangerous obsession with Itachi. Instead of mentally mentoring Sasuke and strengthening his moral character, he teaches him an effectively useless (against Itachi) assassination jutsu. Sasuke needs to learn genjutsu defenses and possibly summons (like the dogs Kakashi brought against Zabuza!). Not only does his work with Sasuke seem to be narrow-minded, he also does this to the exclusion of Sakura and Naruto.

To be fair, Kakashi's past is pretty twisted, and he probably wasn't thrilled at the idea of having to deal with kids (he never passed any of his previous candidates, apparently).

I would have loved to see Sasuke/Sakura/Naruto's development had they been given Gai as a sensei. I'm sure Gai would have forced Naruto to develop some serious taijutsu instead of relying upon contant Kage Bunshin + basic punch/kick. And Sakura probably would have had to get serious as well. Sasuke arguably wouldn't have been any better off with Gai, but I don't think he would have suffered from it either.

Thoughts?

[Mut]

Kakashi is badass. Stop bashing him.

[MemnochTheCaT]

He IS i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif I'm not denying that. I'm not really bashing him, I just think he's a much better fighter than a teacher.

[kooshi]

Who cares? Isn't it better that you develop your skills through your own methods rather than by someone else's? Look at Naruto's Rasengan. It's not the same style as Jiraiya's, but his own style still gets the job done.

[Aeon]

Pffft Gai sucks as a teacher worst then Kakashi. I mean come on what type of teacher teaches one of their students a move that's meant to beat the other one? Not to mention Gai abandoned Neji during the Chuunin exam forcing hum to train with TenTen instead.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Naruto wouldn't have developed his Rasengan without Jiraiya's help. That's the whole point of having teachers : to help the students grow in different areas, such as knowledge, patience, ethics, etc.

EDIT: Aeon : Yeah, as far as Gai focusing on Lee, I agree that is wrong for a teacher to do.

[Rek]

all kakashi does is teach them areas they need teaching in... and he admits his weaknesses. He says there is nothing he can teach sakura. He sees they are lacking in chakra control, so he goes over the walking exercise. He sees naruto needs tutoring, so he does just that, and he notices sasuke needs speed... so he works on that, the Chidori was meant for gaara anyways, not itachi.

Granted, he should have taught naruto more about strategies and MUCH more chakra control and stuff... but what can he do about that? Other than more jutsus...
and he should have taught sakura ...something... anything really... and more about the sharingan to sasuke... because in all honesty, what does sasuke know?

[kooshi]

Well, other than that, Kakashi has been pretty busy in a way. He can't really teach if the team is in the middle of a mission (although some of them are just plain RIDICULOUS), concentrated on Sasuke for the Chuunin exam, was taken out by Itachi and in a coma, then had to go on a mission after he was healed.

[Assertn]

kakashi plays favorites, just like gai
there's no shame in that

[Got_Pho?]

i have to agree with MemCat, but not Gai, he's not too great either, i have to go with team #10 that's the beard guy, ino shikamaru and chouji's teacher, he let his student go with thier own bloodline special skill, ino bloodline of spy, chouji's bloodline of fat and power, shikamaru bloodline of what u call it, "shadow" thing.

Kakashi doesn't do any of those, he should of taught sasuke with his red eyes thing, and naruto should be taught something within like the 4th hokage and he should send sakura back to soap opera with her crying #@^*&.

[Assertn]

asuma is biased against chouji though, even though he was finding faults in all 3 of them, he singled chouji out as the one who was the biggest disappointment.

kurenai is probably the fairest among all the senseis

[kooshi]

But then again, we haven't seen how Kurenai taught her team. The only thing I remember about her comments on her team is all about Kiba's techinques during the Naruto vs Kiba fight.

[ZakuHan]

The only thing he really brought to the team was trying to teach them teamwork.. Pretty much the whole first arc was about that. Other than that, yeah, he mainly focused on Sasuke and let Jiraiya take Naruto - which, I believe, was a good decision.

Sakura just stayed home and played with flowers, or something. "Training to be a woman" as they called it..

[complich8]

I can't say that any of them are bad teachers.

Sure, kakashi was a better fit for sasuke than naruto. But at the same time he taught Naruto some chakra control, he found another tutor when he was going to be focusing on sasuke, he did genjutsu training with Sakura. The training before the second chuunin exam didn't pay attention to Sakura, because she wasn't IN the second chuunin exams, she'd already been eliminated.

That said, it's understood that you're responsible for your own training. That's why Asuma didn't know how far Chouji came, because Chouji's training was generally private and self-disciplined. Similarly, Kurenai didn't really have to do a whole lot in training her team, because quite frankly hinata, kiba, and shino all already knew exactly what they needed to work on.

"Teacher" is probably the wrong word for what the team jounins were doing. I think it'd be more accurate to think of them as Personal Trainers.

[jing]

its not kakashi's fault that his team is a bunch of newbs.

[Prof. Chaos]

I think its not as much teacher, but just to be a squad leader on missions to give them real world experience and to prepare them for tasks ahead in life. I dont think it should be up to them to teach them new techniques unless they see them fit for it. Think of it more as a mentor to help them on their path towards their own self discovery of who they are. Of course Gai and Lee, thats a little different. Just my 2 cents.

[Jaredster]

Yes, I agree that Kakashi isn't that well of a "teacher". I think complich8 assumtion that they are personal trainers is more accurate than teachers. The genin seem to have their own "freestyle" jutsus that they use and they are all unique.

The jounin do play favorites though; I think Kakashi takes a liking to Sasuke because he was best friends with a Uchiha.

[Bobacahog]

Kakashi didn't teach the team a lot of individual skills. He taught them all that teamwork was the key to succeeding as a ninja. He taught them charkra control, tree climbing. He told Sakura that she had to care for the whole team not judt Sasuke. He kept telling Sasuke there were other ways to live than jsut revenge/hate. He told Naruto that he had to start thinking, not just rush in but observe and plan ahead.

All of them learned these and more from him but as we have seen they don't always put high stock in it.

ie Naruto still rushes in, Sakura still whines and crys about Sasuke and treats Naruto like crap, Sasuke ran off to get power from Oro and kill Itachi.

IMO Kakashi is a good teacher, he jsut didn't take the time to really develope them, he rather pointed out what to work on and then let them work on it.

I forget but in some ep, he comments on how amazed he is at how far Naruto got better on his own.

[Cal_kashi]

I also think Kakashi was a very good teacher.

He got the 3 when they were wet behind the ear n00bs.
From teh beggining he had them work on the basics that they needed and a little bit of teamwork.
He is not qualified to look over/train Naruto because Naruto neesds to be protected from Atasuki
Likewise, he is the ONLY one qualified to teach sasuke b/c of his sharingan.
although ill agree, Sakura kinda got shafted.

finally they aren't a normal team and Kakashi as a teacher can't be judged based on a normal team,
sasuke IS the last Uchiha, and Naruto is the Kyubi kid

[SK]

kakashi is badass thats all we need to know/care about, are you guys really gonna analyze the best character's teaching skills rofl.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Akevermillion, I could be mistaken, but I believe that's probably a spoiler for the anime side of things for the time being.

On topic, I do agree that Kakashi is awesome, I guess since this is his first team I should give him some slack i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

[jing]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
Akevermillion, I could be mistaken, but I believe that's probably a spoiler for the anime side of things for the time being.

On topic, I do agree that Kakashi is awesome, I guess since this is his first team I should give him some slack

who are you talking to i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

[MemnochTheCaT]

Misc people who said that Kakashi is or was a good teacher i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

EDIT : LOL there was a post by akevermillion that is now deleted, makes me look insane. MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

[Desmodus]

The characters are obviously created the way they are for a reason. Naruto would not be half as good as it is had then had a 'better' teacher. The point is they are JUST strong enough to make it through, making the whole cartoon more suspenceful and interesting. However, Kakashi is an excellent teacher. The few words he does say and the few actions he takes are far more significant than you might realise. Especially in the earlier episodes.

[DB_Hunter]

Speaking of teachers.... I have always wondered how exactly Gai trains Neji... I mean there must be some similarities between his and the Hyuuga taijutsu style, but only up to a point...

[MemnochTheCaT]

That is an interesting observation DB_Hunter. I guess we can presume that Gai is a competent taijutsu teacher, while Kakashi is more adept at explaining gen/nin?

In a way, I think it would have been cool for the teams to rotate senseis, depending on mission level and what they need to learn.

[Got_Pho?]

i agree.... let Gai train Naruto, he need the speed and taijutsu, and imagine how naruto would be with all his other skills combine, that would be really cool.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Ooo I forgot about Asuma, his taijutsu is pretty awesome too, would be cool to see Sasuke & Naruto get some pointers from him i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Btw : Off-topic, can someone pm me with a solution to the avatar bug? I was talking to Krbadass about it, but I believe he may have missed my last msg.

[Assassin]

first of all, cudos for starting the first decent topic in a LONG while.

second, what ava bug?

third, who ever said the rotating senseis would be good, i agree. if naruto learns taijutsu from guy, he'll be killer. imagine a mass kage bunshun, all fighting and moving like lee. add that to the resengan, and u have a very deadly ninja.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Hey Assassin! Thanks, I was hoping this would be something fun to talk about. Hehehe, yeah Naruto's kage bunshin would be pretty wicked if he had anywhere near Lee's taijutsu skill!

The Avatar bug is something that apparently seems to affect a lot of the old-school members (from 2003), in which they cannot upload avatars, even though they fit all parameters. I have tried copying other avatars which people are already successfully using here, to no avail. I've tried different pcs, operating systems, and browsers, to no avail. So it must be something in the database i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif Anyone know a fix?

[KitKat]

Memnoch, as far as I know the avatars arent fixed yet. Those of us who still have our avas are the ones who uploaded them from our comps at some point in 2004, and haven't changed them since the avatar problems started. I'm sure that if you're patient, it will be fixed eventually.

As for the idea of rotating senseis, that would offer the advantage of each team being able to learn a variety of different skills from different perspectives. However, I think the current system has several advantages too. Most importantly, when a teacher spends as much time as those jounins do with their teams of genins, it lets them become very familiar with each of the skills and attributes of each genin. In theory, this means that they know best where each one is strong, and how to improve upon their strengths, as well as the weaknesses of each, and therefore they can introduce training that will help to eliminate these weaknesses.

[Assassin]

ya ur rite....what they could do is like, stick to one jounin, but every 6 months or so, spend a month with another jounin to learn diff jutsus and strategies

[potentialflip]

Kakashi a bad teacher?! there are good points you all made at why Kakashi would be a bad teacher mainly the fact that it looks like he is investing most of his time with Sasuke more than Naruto or Sakura. Does not make him a bad teacher though. Kakashi never thought of Naruto as a weakling and believes he could get stronger which he eventually does throughout the series. Kakashi believes that there are other people who are better suited to teach Naruto like Ebisu which was crazy but whatever and Jiraiya who eventually is his mentor at the moment. So there is nothing bad what Kakashi is doing it is probably because there is nothing he can do that could help Naruto's growth.

Well Sakura has barely shown any fighting in her. I guess all the women in Naruto are weak besides the Fifth. Guess same goes with Sakura. When I try to think about it. I don't think all the Sensai's work well with the girl genins. They all don't look like fighters with the exception of Tenten but she got whooped by Temari. So nice having hope on her.

As for Sasuke well I guess it is best you read the manga if you really need to understand why Kakashi will personally train Sasuke. You will sort of get it I guess. Has barely anything to do with the fact that he was the strongest of the three in the beginning.

You could make a point about Kakashi being a bad teacher... but if you looked all around almost everyone one of the sensai's did something bad. Look at Saratubi Sensai or what you all recognize better by the third Hokage. He spent most of his effort hoping to change Orochimarou without any luck. You could say that about the other sensai's like Gai who is more into training Rock Lee. Asuma who is like hoping and praying that his genins have a future. Kurenai well I can't say much since we barely see her. but yes it is simple to say that they are bad teachers. In a way the way I think the sensai's are like the closest thing to the genin favorite as a father. Kakashi-Sasuke, Gai-Lee. Naruto already has a sort of father figure in Iruka and now Jiraiya.

[kaigan]

all teachers have favorite, so kakashi favors sasuke more than the others because sasuke in a way is like him. so what? it's not like they turn out bad. sasuke is a dumb fuck and no one gives a shit about him. hopes itachi rape his ass and break all his bones.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Cool responses guys i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif I gotta go to work, but I will be back to talk more about this later.

Kitkat, cool, I just wanted to know what was up, no big deal i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif Will be nice though! I don't want to be an apple or any of these other built-in avas any longer than I have to i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Potentialflip, heheh yeah, those are really good points, though I do think that Sakura has shown *some* promise. I recently re-watched the series from the beginning, and noticed how hard she tried to defend her teammates in the forest trial. I think she just needs someone to give her some extra effort, which I don't believe Kakashi is able to give her for some reason. It's a shame, because he is supposed to know 1000+ jutsu, probably plenty of cool gen/nin stuff, but he's not sharing *grrrr*.

I really like Kakashi anyway though, I thought he was awesome ever since the first ep I saw him show up in.

Kaigan, ROFL your post made my sides hurt from laughing, I kinda feel like that sometimes too, Sasuke is so frustrating, you just want to slap him around. But, he's fulfilling his role in the plot, so meh.

[Cozz]

On Kakashi's teaching: He has given Sasuke a preference, but It's not like he didn't try to teach Naruto Chidori, it's just that Naruto couldn't do it. Granted, Kakashi really dropped the ball on Sakura, but it's not like he can train someone who says their going to start training and be stronger and then decides to play with flowers all day. Kakashi should have really given Naruto a little more one on one training, but I don't think all the training under Kakashi would stop Naruto from doing his mass Kagebushin every time.

On Gai's training: He did try to teach all of his students the lotus, but only Lee mastered it, so it was only natural that he gave him some futher training further down that style. I don't believe that the Gate technique was created soley for the purpose of defeating Neji (though Gai obviously knew that was the only way that Lee could beat Neji), but as the Lotus was meant to defend someone precious , the Gates were made to defend Lee's Ninja Way. I don't think Gai's taijustu(sp) style would work for Neji because it would contradict most of his style, but I'm sure he'd be a super effective fighter at close range if he had the option to break bones or break chakra (or just do both). As for Tenten, she doesn't seem like a close range fighter at all, although it would certainly help her when her weapons are useless.

[mitsui]

i think kakashi is an excellent teacher but not perfect since he is always late. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

gai is also an excellent teacher. it's just that each teacher has his own way and style of teaching, that's the only difference i think. Also have to consider their student's attitude, personality, ability and the likes. Each individual is unique or different from one another. I think kakashi and gai both did a splendid job teaching their students.
But if we checked out the results of their teaching, i say kakashi did little better than gai since souske and naruto passed the 1st round of eliminations, but only neji advanced, and in the end naruto defeated neji. Plus gai's students trained 1 year earlier than kakashi's. They should have the advantage.

therefore, kakashi wins. but this doesn't have anything to do with being a good or bad teacher.

[KitKat]

Memnoch, I totally know what you mean. When I first signed up, I browsed through the list of avatars, and I was like, "Wow, these all suck." and so I opened up Paint and made myself my very first avatar ever. I hope you get your real ava back soon.

Cozz, I think I'm gonna play devil's advocate and argue a bit on the Sakura issue. I know, this is out of character for me, since I very much dislike Sakura, but I think we need someone to argue the opposite perspective for a moment.
First off, I doubt Sakura is playing with flowers all day (Ino might be, since she works at a flower shop, but Ino is more useless than Sakura). Anyways, I speculate that the girls of Konoha who choose to become ninjas have a lot more to learn than the guys. Not only must they train as ninjas, but I speculate that they also have serious family obligations, to learn cooking, and sewing, and various other 'femenine' skills from their mothers. Maybe she just doesn't have as much time to train as the guys do, since Naruto and Sasuke both don't have families and therefore can spend a great deal more time training. Overall, I think Sakura could be a decent ninja if she didn't let her emotions dictate her decisions. Anyways, this is starting to drift off-topic, so I'll leave it at that.

Mitsui, I think that the success of Kakashi's students in the chuunin exam isn't so much a reflection of Kakashi's teaching skill, but rather a reflection of the the unusually powerful and motivated genins he happened to get on his team. Granted, Kakashi taught them a lot and helped them improve, but I think they would have achieved the same level of improvement under Gai. Maybe not improvement in the same areas, but I think overall the measure of improvement would be about equal.

[Cozz]

Originally posted by: KitKat

Cozz, I think I'm gonna play devil's advocate and argue a bit on the Sakura issue. I know, this is out of character for me, since I very much dislike Sakura, but I think we need someone to argue the opposite perspective for a moment.
First off, I doubt Sakura is playing with flowers all day (Ino might be, since she works at a flower shop, but Ino is more useless than Sakura). Anyways, I speculate that the girls of Konoha who choose to become ninjas have a lot more to learn than the guys. Not only must they train as ninjas, but I speculate that they also have serious family obligations, to learn cooking, and sewing, and various other 'femenine' skills from their mothers. Maybe she just doesn't have as much time to train as the guys do, since Naruto and Sasuke both don't have families and therefore can spend a great deal more time training. Overall, I think Sakura could be a decent ninja if she didn't let her emotions dictate her decisions. Anyways, this is starting to drift off-topic, so I'll leave it at that.
.
I also think Sakura could be a decent ninja, and await the time that she finally becomes one. My point about flowers was this: During the chuunin exam, after Lee was defeated by the sound trio, Sakura desired to be strong. Granted, I knew there was no way for her to beat the sound trio, becasue there were only 4 Genins at that point who really had a chance agianst one on 3 (Naruto, Sasuke, Neji, and Lee), and no was Sakura going to be in that group. After the Exam, she had the chance to train...but she would rather give a flower to Sasuke(who wasn't there), and watch as half a man (Lee) trained than get up and train herself. If Kakashi had taught Sakura how to prioritize herself , I don't think she would be as hated as she is now.

[KitKat]

Heh, I totally agree with you Cozz. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif
Darn it, I suck at debating the opposite side. We need someone else here to argue on Sakura's behalf who actually likes her character. As for myself, I shall lapse back to my usual anti-Sakura-ness.
Btw, welcome to the forum. It's nice to see another person here who uses complete sentences and puts some thought into their posts.

[folf]

bad ass or not, the question is his teaching ability.
As a leader, appoaching many newbs to the game, he can not help but teach them if he is worth anything at all.

What is the purpose of the teacher in that phase?
`

[jeffie talkin]

kakashi taught them chakara control u idiot - _-

It is not a good idea to flame other users in your first post.

GotWoot Moderator

[miaka]

Originally posted by: Cozz


Originally posted by: KitKat

Cozz, I think I'm gonna play devil's advocate and argue a bit on the Sakura issue. I know, this is out of character for me, since I very much dislike Sakura, but I think we need someone to argue the opposite perspective for a moment.
First off, I doubt Sakura is playing with flowers all day (Ino might be, since she works at a flower shop, but Ino is more useless than Sakura). Anyways, I speculate that the girls of Konoha who choose to become ninjas have a lot more to learn than the guys. Not only must they train as ninjas, but I speculate that they also have serious family obligations, to learn cooking, and sewing, and various other 'femenine' skills from their mothers. Maybe she just doesn't have as much time to train as the guys do, since Naruto and Sasuke both don't have families and therefore can spend a great deal more time training. Overall, I think Sakura could be a decent ninja if she didn't let her emotions dictate her decisions. Anyways, this is starting to drift off-topic, so I'll leave it at that.
.
I also think Sakura could be a decent ninja, and await the time that she finally becomes one. My point about flowers was this: During the chuunin exam, after Lee was defeated by the sound trio, Sakura desired to be strong. Granted, I knew there was no way for her to beat the sound trio, becasue there were only 4 Genins at that point who really had a chance agianst one on 3 (Naruto, Sasuke, Neji, and Lee), and no was Sakura going to be in that group. After the Exam, she had the chance to train...but she would rather give a flower to Sasuke(who wasn't there), and watch as half a man (Lee) trained than get up and train herself. If Kakashi had taught Sakura how to prioritize herself , I don't think she would be as hated as she is now.
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totally with you.. i mean she pretends that she is so determined to train,,, but doesn't do anything at all...
Also i think it is too late to develop her chracter(after more than 120 epi. i mean goodness..) ... and i don't wanna see her be suddenly all strong.. and i really hope they don't do that ever!!!

[MemnochTheCaT]

Aww I think Sakura can be strong someday i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif Not everyone matures at the same speeds, and besides, with Sasuke gone chasing after power with Oro, it gives her some good motivation to grow up!

[Agrajag]

Sakura might actually become a much better fighter now that Sasuke is gone. While he was still around, all of her attention seemed to be focused on him (or on Lee, who is now better and thus won't be focused on by Sakura either). If Sasuke really does go with Oro, it will probably be the best thing to happen to Sakura. If she's not stalking him anymore, she'll have time not only to train but to form some actual relationships with the other Genin in the village (how many real friends does Sakura have? Ino is her rival, Sasuke ignores her, she seems to hate Naruto, and we've never really seen her interact with anyone else that I can remember).

[kooshi]

Sakura probably has a few friends, but the anime never shows them. Remember how Ino managed to help Sakura make friends when they were childhood friends. Besides, what would be the significance of showing them? If Sakura doesn't have any friends because they are not shown, then pretty much everybody is a loner.

[moogie-]

kakashi did a great job multi-tasking with the dirty mag, and training the kids. i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif

[Got_Pho?]

Sakura, well now she's off of the epi lately and hope it stay that way, all she do is TALK to herself and CRY.

[Cal_kashi]

it seems to follow the pattern of the anime that Sakura will start training under Tsunade, but outside of that happening i don't think we'll see Sakura get any stronger

[Psyke]

Kakashi was a good teacher in my opinion, as he showed faith in them by letting them into the Chuunin Exams and making them understand the importance of teamwork.

[kooshi]

Well, the question is, just WHY would Tsunade train Sakura? For the moment, there's no valid reason why Tsunade should be the sensei.

[Got_Pho?]

Yeah....., why would Tsunade be training a NO GOOD NINJA?


she should train Konohamaru........... funniest thing ever when they fist ran into each other i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

[Naruto_RNG]

I started to dislike kakashi when he started playing favors for sasuke. he didn't tried to teach naruto chidori. the fact that he gave naruto to Ebisu to train means that he didn't fully realized naruto's skills, strenght and weaknesses. I don't think he cared much when Jiraya told him he is taking naruto. the only thing he did for naruto was chakra controll, and that 1000 years of pain. he was yelling to jiraya why he thought naruto rasengan. if this doesn't say he likes sasuke more I don't know wut does. so him being a good teacher, no he fails badly.

[DarthEnderX]

I agree. He is a shitty teacher. Whats funny is this is the first team he's even agreed to teach too. One's gone, and the other two are being trained by others now.

He fail it.

[IFHTT]

Well given the circumstances, he did the best he could. I mean his student's weren't exactly star students. One had an inferiority complex with his brother mixed with the desire for revenge, and on top of that, stubborn as hell. The next is a useless girl who has yet to prove her worth to the group, and the last a WAY too spastic kid, with a huge amount of potential but lacks the brainpower to function properly as a ninja mixed with desire to be the best ninja, not in the best interest of the people but for his own gratification... Tough group of first students if you ask me. He could have undoubtedly do better though.

Whoever neg repped for this post saying "Kakashi is the best and he only teaches the best.", you need to reread it dumbass. I backed kakashi up for the most part, dickhole.

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, with that group of winners as the first group he AGREED to train it really makes you wonder what kind of of turds he actually rejected.

[XanBcoo]

The kind who didn't understand the meaning of CHI-MU-WA-KU.

[AlterEgox5]

The one thing people keep pointing out is that Kakashi is not a good teacher simply because he gave Naruto to Ebisu. When he did that he even mentioned (to himself) that Ebisu would be able to teach Naruto more things than himself, and to me it sounded like he really did understand that Naruto had potential and hoped that Ebisu could bring it out in him. Granted, aside from the chakra control training, we never get to find out what Ebisu might have been capable of since Jiraiya took control.

Still, I do think he needs to do something with Sakura. I think she's made a few leaps and bounds on her own, but still believe that she needs some individual hardcore training because she's still pretty weak. Sometimes I wonder why she wanted to become a ninja... But yeah, I really hope that Sasuke going off to Oro will be a good motivator for her.

That's my two cents. =P

NT

[dragonrage]

In my opinion he is an exceptional teacher, he may not be the best, but he sure is one of the better ones.

Why do i think so?

1: He only accepted to train them because they place their teammates ahead of themselves. Remember! No other group did that, and i recall the third used the same method to train the Sanins.

2. The reason why he gave Sasuke "special attention" is because he is the one he most relates to. The same out to prove yourself attitude the same thirst for revenge. Remember Sasuke is the only surviving member of his clan besides Itachi, and if he is an embarassment the whole clan is reflected by that since his shoulders carry the reputation of the clan. The reason why he didn't teach naruto the chidori is not because he didn't want to, it is becuase he can't learn it that easily if at all. It requires speed, exceptional sealing ability and in some part the sharingan. Also the reason why he taught Sasuke the Chidori is so that he would not rely on the CURSE SEAL.

3. The reason why he was angry that Jariya taught naruto the rasengan was not because he favors Sasuke, but because this would further fuel Sasuke quest for power, remember that is his original goal. But being in group number 7 his heart began to change from revenge to protecting the one he care about. Remember no matter what Naruto and Sasuke are RIVALS. The reason why Jariya taught him rasengan is because he understand Naruto better than anyone, and alos it was created but the fourth and we all know naurto and the fourth share similiar qualities.

4. There was no objection to Jariya taking over Naruto as a student. Why? Like i said Jariya understands Naruto better than anyone, and he is the one that would best prepare him for the upcoming battle with the group Itachi belongs to.

5. Why is he ignoring Sakura and Naruto? Remember he is an elite Journin, and since Konaha power has been cut in half by the attack on the village, alot rest heavily on his shoulders to keep up Konaha's power; so far he has only been on "S" class missions.
Also remember when he found out that Sasuke left the village and Naruto and the others went after him, he dropped everything to go in after them. And he abandon his search for Sasuke when Naruto was hurt.

6. Why is Jariya and Tsunade training Naruto and Sakura? If you haven't noticed Group seven is similar to the Sanin group so who better is there to train them, than the ones they most relate too. Sakura with her perfect control of chakra has realized that she can never be as good a warrior as Naruto and Sasuke and has placed her efforts on supporting them instead with medical assistance. Who better to teach her than the person who is legendary in the field, and the Hokage. Naruto with one of the greatest chakra and a quest to save a friend than the person that was called the Hero of Konaha and also wanted to save his friend Orichimaru.

Anyways Kakashi is an exceptional teacher because he tried to teach his group something more tan just completing missions. Although the fact of the matter the group didn't stay together was beyond his control, alot of influencial people were against that one a leader of a hidden group and the other a member of "S" class ninjas'. He did the best he could and he realized when he was wrong and admitted it. Also he knew when it was time to let go. That is my opinion of man.

[bxgreatone87]

he really isnt a bad teacher he is just a better teacher for sasuke because of the shrigan and that they are similar.Also if he trained naruto like he trained sasuke would naruto ever recieve the training tfrom jiraya since he met im while training with the closet pervert lol and on sakura part since she isnt really the fighting type it would be better for her to learn how to be a medical ninja from the 5th.What kakashi taught them was team work and control of chacra if he taught them everything he knows there is no room for them to learn about there special techniques and every ninja would be the same which would such lol.i read something about naruto's rasengan being diffrent from jiraya's but he dose it difrently cause he cant control chakra as well and when he is using the kyubi's chakra where he gets a tail and all you uses rasengan like jiraya so there really is no diffrence just in his skill lvl at the moment

[Kraco]

The fact Kakashi no doubt tried his best doesn't make him an excellent teacher. It made him a respectable teacher, but even a totally average and adequate teacher can be respectable as long as he gives all he has got to the teaching.

Kakashi pushed Naruto to somebody like Ebisu, who is a total loser and a fool. This is the man who failed miserably to teach and handle Konohamaru. An idiot like Naruto gave Konohamaru more valuable lessons than Ebisu. This reveals one thing: When things got serious, Kakashi abandoned Naruto and concentrated on saving and helping Sasuke. This is pretty natural considering how similar they are, like has been said many times in the previous posts.

However, this fits Kakashi's character perfectly as well as the nature of the series (well, before the fillers started, anyway). It doesn't make him an excellent teacher but it does make him a stern and succesful ninja. Happenings like this are what make Naruto the series it is.

[UChessmaster]

Actually, i think that kakashi did the right thing by sending naruto to ebisu, cause he though naruto could use some basic chakra control, wich he truly did, and don`t forget ebisu IS a jounin and used to teaching

[Kraco]

Naruto needed more fixing of the seal Orochimaru had messed up than any basic training the closet pervert could have given. The thing is that they were preparing for the Chuunin exam. It's doubtful just basic chakra training could have helped Naruto under those circumstances. Since we know Kakashi is no newbie in sealing techniques, we can also assume he might have noticed Naruto isn't quite alright if Sasuke hadn't drawn all his attention.

Kakashi is more like a practical operative than a teacher. The decisions he made back then were like those one would make during a mission somewhere out there. It can't be denied that Kakashi was an excellent teacher for Sasuke. But for Naruto the teacher probably needs to be as crazy as the student, not so controlled as Kakashi, and so Jiraya makes a better tutor. Ebisu would have been totally out of his league.

[AlterEgox5]

Kudos to dragonrage.

*raises glass*

[Meehlimo]

Well like Kraco said b4 sasuke is more like kakaski and naruto is just a handfull in general and since ebisu had "tired" to teach konohamaru he has experiance dealing with students who can be a handfull. At anyrate kakashi took sasuke in my opinion because he knew he could teach sasuke what he need since he understands sasuke.

[masamuneehs]

dragonrage's posts on this are about as good of a defense of Kakashi you could want.

I don't really think he's the best teacher ever. In fact, as a regular teacher he is horrible. A Gai or even a Kurenai would make a better teacher for typical ninja teams.

But Team 7 is different. (hence they needed a different type of teacher)

Yes all 3 had some flaws, but when you look at them they're the strongest team, no question asked, in terms of future potential.

Sakura: I hate her, but the girl is smart and level-headed. Her getting high grades and having a great memory should have indicated that she'd be the eventual leader of the team, as she'd have the best head for tactics and decision making. She would also work as a leader because she's her intelligence and knowledge would actually force the other two (stubborn and often at odds) members to respect her decisions and not fight between themselves for role of team leader.

Sasuke: Graduated top of his class. One of (3? 4?) in the world who can use Sharingan.

Naruto: Bottom of the barrel, but he's got a fucking demon inside of him! Also an obvious 'rally point' for the others, his strong personality giving others energy and hope.

So with these three components their potential would be wasted unless you gave them someone who excelled in teaching 'prodigy geniuses'. Kakashi's past is still relatively unknown at this point in the anime, so it's hard to see why he'd be the best fit for Team 7's leader.

The problem is that Kakashi FAILED, big time, with Team 7. I'm absolutely convinced that the biggest reason for his failure was not that he spent too much time focusing on Sasuke, but not enough time focusing on Sakura!

Sakura, especially in the Team 7 I laid out above, was at the core. She had a lot of flaws to overcome, and Kakashi really never helped her with any of them. Heck, the only thing he really taught them (besides the 'teamwork' first test, which was really already ingrained in them) was Chakra control, which she was already good at.

By going off as a 'solo instructor' for Sasuke, Kakashi made a good move and a bad move. What was good was that it let Naruto meet Jiraiya (which Kakashi has to chalk up to sheer luck). What was bad was that it furthered the rift between Naruto and Sasuke and lift Sakura in total limbo. By doing that Kakashi basically turned his back on the first thing he ever taught them 'team over self'.

The rest is history. After the Chuunin Exam and all those events, Kakashi didn't really try to restore any sense of 'team' in his group. I sorta doubt that he could at that point. Sasuke became consumed by his desire for revenge, Naruto was still being Naruto, and Sakura wasn't even nearly strong enough to hold the team together, despite her best efforts.

So, did Kakashi fail as a teacher? Yes, obviously.
Does that mean he's a bad teacher? ... Well only time will tell...
(You ask my opinion, and it is a strong Yes, as his contradicting his own teachings is probably the biggest no-no a teacher can do, neglecting particular students for others being the second)

[UberSuperHACKER]

Kakashi isn;t a teacher.. he was just the leader of their team... The small amounts of Traning that Kakashi ptu them through were always sucessful ... but he is more of a put them in the situation and let them grow by themselves kinda teacher.

Kakshi's "give some guidance but let people do things on their own to realize their own full potential" style is obvious by the way Kakashi faked his own death inthe first "real ninja" ight at the begingg of the wave country arc, and by how he entered the team in the chunin exam.

[dragonrage]

I don't really think he's the best teacher ever. In fact, as a regular teacher he is horrible. A Gai or even a Kurenai would make a better teacher for typical ninja teams.


@masamuneehs.... Gai focuses all of his attention on Lee and ignore the others, the only reason he really teaches them anything as a group is to push Lee harder. Other than that they are basically alone.

Kurenai.....is a new jounin and doesn't seem that powerful since all we have seen from her is illusion techniques, but she did survive the attach on the village so gotta give her some props. But i do like her as a teacher though, this may show that she is weak, but when Shino was training for the Churnin finally test, they all help out.... which is cool.

I didn't say that he was the best teacher, i said he was excetional... atleast for this group... can you really point out any other teacher that could have really, push them thus far. Most teachers and people resented Naruto, or not qualified to deal with the issuses of the group. Sasuke needed someone to teach him about the sharingan, Sakura just wanted to be in the group with Sasuke nothing else, but she ended up with a greater purpose and did alot of growing up in the process. I think that is all he could have done for her. Naruto just wanted the village to recognize him, specifically Sasuke, and we all know that was accomplished. It gave him somewhere to belong to, a family if you will.

The group had to break up if it didn't the story wouldn't be interesting so you really can't blame that on him..... There were alot of outside influences that is gonna determine their future, and they are destined for greatness, that we all know. He play his part and nothing more, he gave them what was need to proceed onto the next stage in life. Some needed training, others, time or just someone else. In Naruto's case, Jariya who again trained the foruth and most likely knows more are the seal and Naruto than anyone else, thus being the best person to help him achieve the other stage.

Anyways i say he did his job the best he could.... and was the best person for the group.

@ubersuperhacker. have you really been watching the series, because all journins are teachers. If they weren't where or who would you learn the basic techniques from.... But i do agree with you, on the given them their own space to grow thing, and that show that he is a teacher and not just a leader.

Edit: @masamuneehs... the only reason that they pass the first test is because Sakura and Sasuke were smart enough to firgure out the lesson that he was trying to teach them. But at the end they really were team mates, family or Nakama if you will. That is why Naruto was so influencial on Sasuke, and that was recognized by Sakura as well.

[masamuneehs]

dragonrage i still totally disagree with you:
the same way Gai focused on Lee Kakashi focused on Sasuke

Kurenai's team: still intact.

Sakura just wanting to be in Sasuke's group: But what about Ino? Same deal, really, so it doesn't make Sakura special. In fact, if anything, putting two people in the same group where one of them would have that kind of attachment to the other is a flaw in composition.

Kakashi was an OK teacher if you just want to say he furthered the characters' (sasuke's) abilities. But he almost totally neglected 2 out of 3 of his students. that is not the mark of a good teacher.

finally, i find the fact that he initially stressed teamwork, but never really cultivated it, to be his biggest failure as a teacher. i dont think anyone can argue with that.

you can't just say: Team 7 had to break up for the story to be the way it is. That's BS as far as excusing Kakashi from his duties goes. If anything, there should be more in the story about how Kakashi's failure with such an exceptional group is a big deal, or at least a big evaluation of his character. it's totally been downplayed to preserve his character as the 'cool, mysterious, older ninja'

[dragonrage]

Team 7 was gonna break up anyways, because of Sasuke's quest to kill his older brother. Come on, and the fact the the Orichmaru wanted Sasuke sharingan didn't help., and Itachi's group wanted Naruto. Are you telling me Kakashi or anyone else could have stopped the break up. And that someone other than Jariya could have prepared Naruto better to face the upcoming battles.

Yes Kakashi focused more on Sasuke than the other two, but he didn't just ignore the other two. We all know that Sakura and Naruto were immature, Sasuke was the only real somwhat mature one. Naruto and Sasuke need to grow up alittle that is all i think he could have taught them. Naruto potential was already growing beacuse he spent so much time with Sasuke, he went from a coward to a ninja because of being in group 7.

His name is the copy ninja. The only original technique he has is Raikiki(chidori). The technigue itself needs speed, chakra control and having the sharingan doesn't hurt. What else could he have taught Naruto and Sakura than chakra control, specifically Naruto lacking mostly in basics, he told him to master the basics and he will become stronger. And he recognized his growth as a ninja and a person.

Oh sakura and Ino are best friends but they are not the same. Sakura is brilliant, hard working and a genius when it comes to chakra control. The brilliant part was established by Ino herself during the first Churnin exam, chakra control was establish by Ebisu and Kakashi, and the rest by Tsunade when she cleared the 7th stage i think, of the medical training. Remember Tsunade said that something else was need to be a mediacal ninja "desperation" and she said Sakura had it.

You also stated Gai did the same thing with Lee so how does that make him a better teacher. Gai was traning Lee to beat Neji. Did Kakashi do that? He was teaching him so that he could protect his friends and fill that hole that was that was made when lost of his family.

What else could have been taught to Naruto by any other of the Journins, even Ebisu admitted that Jariya was a better teacher for Naruto.

[Kraco]

Team 7 was gonna break up anyways, because of Sasuke's quest to kill his older brother. Come on, and the fact the the Orichmaru wanted Sasuke sharingan didn't help., and Itachi's group wanted Naruto.

That sounds suspiciously like you think the people in charge would have known beforehand Sasuke will hit the road soon and Naruto will have his hands full simply not to get kidnapped by a group of criminals. And so such a team was formed to last for a short while, like for theatrics. Maybe they added Sakura in as a glue, because nothing could separate her from Sasuke and nothing could separate Naruto from her. A sacrificed group, with Kakashi as a leader, because a man who has previously experienced losing all his friends might be able to cope with it yet again. Well, that's quite cold thinking, but maybe it's true.


Yes Kakashi focused more on Sasuke than the other two, but he didn't just ignore the other two. We all know that Sakura and Naruto were immature, Sasuke was the only real somwhat mature one.

I don't know if Sasuke was that mature. He just had nothing but the revenge on his mind, and kept himself distant from everybody because of that. Well, I suppose it's kind of maturity to understand that he would just hurt himself and others if he made any friends, and then suddenly disappeared on his path of vengeance.


What else could he have taught Naruto and Sakura than chakra control, specifically Naruto lacking mostly in basics, he told him to master the basics and he will become stronger. And he recognized his growth as a ninja and a person.

I didn't actually have so big problems with this issue before the last phase of the Chuunin exam. The single and only thing that bothers me is that he suddenly didn't anymore care how Naruto would fare in the exam, as long as Sasuke had a chance. Maybe you are right about the fact that he couldn't have taught Naruto anything really valuable (in the exam), but if you think about it, such thinking would make Kakashi quite a low-level ninja of few means.


You also stated Gai did the same thing with Lee so how does that make him a better teacher. Gai was traning Lee to beat Neji. Did Kakashi do that? He was teaching him so that he could protect his friends and fill that hole that was that was made when lost of his family.

That was just a nice speech. And I very much doubt Gai's real intention was to train Lee so that his student's only purpose in life was to beat the ninjas of his own village. Whatever gives more motivation to the student, with no real harm. Sasuke kept telling himself he was only interested in his revenge, and thus it was wise to try to make him accept the fact he also cares for the wellbeing of his friends. Lee had no such mental problems, so he could be told to directly compete with somebody else, because in the end that wouldn't mean anything but competition when it's appropriate, otherwise normal cooperation (as we have seen). If Kakashi had told Sasuke to never let Naruto close the power gap between them and always be more powerful than Naruto, what kind of dynamics would the misfortunate team have had?

[Naruto_RNG]

OWNED,big time damn.
I dont know wut to add to that since its perfectly been written.
I dont hate kakashi, and I am not saying he didnt care about naruto, but he has failed as a teacher.

[dragonrage]

That sounds suspiciously like you think the people in charge would have known beforehand Sasuke will hit the road soon and Naruto will have his hands full simply not to get kidnapped by a group of criminals. And so such a team was formed to last for a short while, like for theatrics. Maybe they added Sakura in as a glue, because nothing could separate her from Sasuke and nothing could separate Naruto from her. A sacrificed group, with Kakashi as a leader, because a man who has previously experienced losing all his friends might be able to cope with it yet again. Well, that's quite cold thinking, but maybe it's true.

They did have some idea that he was gonna leave. Even he told Kakashi that the reason he wants to become a ninja is because there is a man that he wants to kill. And having your entire clan whiped out by your brother, does make you vengeful. For him to achieve that goal he had to leave sometime. They didn't know about the situation with Naruto, but Jiraya did. I think that is the only reason why they didn't know is because they could never find him.


I don't know if Sasuke was that mature. He just had nothing but the revenge on his mind, and kept himself distant from everybody because of that. Well, I suppose it's kind of maturity to understand that he would just hurt himself and others if he made any friends, and then suddenly disappeared on his path of vengeance.

Well you sorta prove my point. For someone to have revenge on his mind some level maturity have to be there; for planning, achieving and excuting. Do you not agree? He kept to himself because he didn't want to get too attached to anyone and be distracted from his main objective.



That was just a nice speech. And I very much doubt Gai's real intention was to train Lee so that his student's only purpose in life was to beat the ninjas of his own village. Whatever gives more motivation to the student, with no real harm. Sasuke kept telling himself he was only interested in his revenge, and thus it was wise to try to make him accept the fact he also cares for the wellbeing of his friends. Lee had no such mental problems, so he could be told to directly compete with somebody else, because in the end that wouldn't mean anything but competition when it's appropriate, otherwise normal cooperation (as we have seen). If Kakashi had told Sasuke to never let Naruto close the power gap between them and always be more powerful than Naruto, what kind of dynamics would the misfortunate team have had?

It wasn't his only purpose in life, but it was his way to achieve it. He wanted to be an excepitonal ninja and protect the people important to him. And it wasn't just a nice speech remember after he had beaten Sasuke he revealed that in all his fights with Neji he had never won a single one. And when he fought Gara he look and Neji and said to himself this was the technique that i was finally gonna beat you with ( or something to that extent), who trained him to unlocked the gates? Kakashi knew that Naruto would have gotten stronger anyways all he needed to learn was control. Even in the academy, he displayed an enormous amount of chakra but no control, because of that enormous he was able to use the Kage bunshin....I agree with you that Sasuke needed to learn how to reconnect with other people and just not block them out. But did he do that I mean. Sasuke started to care about Sakura and Naruto and wanted to protect them. He cared so much that he couldn't kill Naruto, although it would have given him the mangekio sharingan(sp). He chose to go to Orichmaru instead of killing his best friend. Why you might ask. Remember the curse seal worked against him, making it very hard to use his own power and preventing further growth so he has to rely on it..... So while Naruto was growing it looked like he was standing still. The curse seal was the only power that he could use to achieve his goal and Orichmaru was the only one who could show him how to use it.


@Naruto_RNG.... If you truly understand a discussion such as this one, then maybe you would understand who really got "owned" as you say. If you don't already, I hope you do someday or you will remain in the dark.

[Aramis]

I agree that Kakashi kind of sucks as a teacher, it's not as if he has any expirience of teaching...but he did his best regardless. He had his students forcibly entered in the chuunin exam and gave them opportunities to get stronger by themselves.´
He didn't teach them killer jutsus because kids shouldn't have too much power. He taught one to Sasuke, who had already hit a treshold in power and needed good techniques to get stronger. And by making him stronger, Kakashi hoped that he'd stay in the village. That was a mistake, since the self-righteous little brat left anyway.

About Gai, I can't see how he could effectively train Neji or Tenten. Their fighting styles are too different.

[Munsu]

It's hard to teach the "killer jutsus" when the students don't even know the basics.

[bxgreatone87]

well i kind of don't see them as teacher's.i see each of them kinda like moderater's who take them on missions and make sure the job is done and giving advice only if needed.i dont see them as teacher's because they dont really teach them new things from what we've seen only gai and kakashi taught lee and sasuke anything the rest of them learned there moves on there own or from there family skills or natural abilities.ohhh i forgot naruto but he is a special case and learned from a sanin because of future danger with itahic group.

[Kraco]

It's hard to teach the "killer jutsus" when the students don't even know the basics.

Although that certainly could be true from a theoretical point of view, it isn't necessarily true. It's reasonable to believe the power of any lethal technique depends on the particular technical skill, the level of chakra (raw power), and how well the technique is applied in practice. And it's only a sum of those, so if any individual aspect is raised high enough, it will compensate weaknesses in the other aspects.

It needs to be remember these people are basically soldiers, in the end. Perhaps like special forces soldiers. They need killer jutsus. No matter how much the leaders try to control the environment and deal out missions of varying difficulty levels, they will get attacked with killing intentions even at their own doorsteps. So, they should be taught lethal jutsus even if they can't perfectly control them (like Naruto and the rasengan). It could decide between life and death in the real situation.


@Naruto_RNG.... If you truly understand a discussion such as this one, then maybe you would understand who really got "owned" as you say. If you don't already, I hope you do someday or you will remain in the dark.
Although it really serves no purpose, but I'll just note that my previous post didn't contradict that much because I didn't even disagree that much. I just pointed out some things (whether I even believed in them myself or not) out of purely academic interest. So, nobody got owned...

[dragonrage]

Although it really serves no purpose, but I'll just note that my previous post didn't contradict that much because I didn't even disagree that much. I just pointed out some things (whether I even believed in them myself or not) out of purely academic interest. So, nobody got owned...

my point exactly, i knew you would get it. I was wondering if he did.

[Naruto_RNG]

@dragonrage
dude your asking me if I get the topic?
it asked if kakashi is a good teacher or not? we're not saying he is a bad ninja.
In your opinion should a teacher leave his other students and concentrate on one just because they're alike? just answer this question for me. thx

[jGz`93-o6]

lol yer i rekon..perveted kid..altho maybe i think jiraiya cud teach konohamaru to be lyk him

[jGz`93-o6]

i think so too. kakashi seems more of the guy to be hunting the other missing dudes. or y else does he keep his face covered? or it cud be lyk in 1 of da episodes - bukteeth, pointy mouth etc roflz