Teen Titans Vs. Naruto [Archive]

Mon, 01-24-2005, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
obviously teen titan's were gonna win.....
simply because most of the people involved in the discussion are from the US, and therefore are more familiar with teen titans and less familiar with anime in general

so who cares?

Why would being from America make you less familiar with anime than you are with something relatively obscure in the comics world like Teen Titans?

Originally posted by: RasenDori

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
you seriously read that crap like spiderman and all those shitty super hero comics?

dude... spidey and x-men rock. especially j. micheal stratzynksy's run on amazing spider-man, simply amazing. you should check give american books more of a chance, there are tons of stuff out there that is pure gold. like anything with stratzynsky's or bendis name on it.

Straczynski's run was alright except for all that mystic shit he kept throwing in. And the 500th issue was poor. Bendis writes too damn much of Marvel. EDIT: That isn't to say that they aren't both great writers; JMS wrote some fucking amazing Spiderman stories, and when Bendis was the only one (practically) writing Ultimate books, he still pulled it off. Plus I love his run on Daredevil with Alex Maleev.

honestly i cant see how someone can read manga and not enjoy american books too (yeah... im gonna get flamed)

Easy, if they only watch anime because they're japanophiles.

... but over all... DC SUCKS!!! everyone is overpowered (even batman) and are completely uninteresting. its not wonder the titans win that battle, because DC heros are too outrageous. god i hate DC so much.

But DC heroes aren't overpowered, at least no more so than Marvel. Hell, Marvel has practically no human-level heroes, they're all metas.

DeathscytheVII

Mon, 01-24-2005, 10:22 PM

i havent read the old TT comics, but i hear they are awesome. I do however, watched the new animated (and heavily anime influenced) teen titans, and that show is good i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif i started watching teen titanst when i got disillusioned by how bad Naruto became in the tea country (but now that its good again i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif im watching)

my one complaint from what ive seen in the old comics however, is that they all look 30 years old i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif when they are supposed to be called "Teen" titans

RasenDori

Mon, 01-24-2005, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by: Y The Alien

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
obviously teen titan's were gonna win.....
simply because most of the people involved in the discussion are from the US, and therefore are more familiar with teen titans and less familiar with anime in general

so who cares?

Why would being from America make you less familiar with anime than you are with something relatively obscure in the comics world like Teen Titans?

Originally posted by: RasenDori

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
you seriously read that crap like spiderman and all those shitty super hero comics?

dude... spidey and x-men rock. especially j. micheal stratzynksy's run on amazing spider-man, simply amazing. you should check give american books more of a chance, there are tons of stuff out there that is pure gold. like anything with stratzynsky's or bendis name on it.

Straczynski's run was alright except for all that mystic shit he kept throwing in. And the 500th issue was poor. Bendis writes too damn much of Marvel. EDIT: That isn't to say that they aren't both great writers; JMS wrote some fucking amazing Spiderman stories, and when Bendis was the only one (practically) writing Ultimate books, he still pulled it off. Plus I love his run on Daredevil with Alex Maleev.

honestly i cant see how someone can read manga and not enjoy american books too (yeah... im gonna get flamed)

Easy, if they only watch anime because they're japanophiles.

... but over all... DC SUCKS!!! everyone is overpowered (even batman) and are completely uninteresting. its not wonder the titans win that battle, because DC heros are too outrageous. god i hate DC so much.

But DC heroes aren't overpowered, at least no more so than Marvel. Hell, Marvel has practically no human-level heroes, they're all metas.

youre right about stratzynsky's mystic bullshit, i hated that stuff, i understand that he likes dr. strange, but he doesnt have to tie him into every other spider-man arc. and about the overpowered stuff, most marvel heroes wouldnt stand a chance against DC heroes (besides the omega level guys like jean, magneto etc) and overall i dont feel like the DC heroes have real lives, its the themes behind the stories like x-men and spider-man, the and the family like bond of the FF and other human like qualities that attract me to marvel. boo to DC

EDIT: spelling

basey44

Mon, 01-24-2005, 10:43 PM

i hate teen titans, i hate it wen they just group together a lot of superheros like that, reminds me of like super friends or something like that. i mean how hard would it be to come up with something original, instead of saying "hey we need some money, lets make a show full of old boring heros, and make them teenagers" its as bad as that xmen evolution cartoon that came on not long after the movie wen they were all in highschool or something together.

i do like the older xmen and spiderman cartoons and comics that were around mid '90's though, they are quite enjoyable to watch. another good comic in johnny the homicidal maniac but its not really the same genre so i guess that doesnt count huh?

Mon, 01-24-2005, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by: RasenDori

youre write about stratzynsky's mystic bullshit, i hated that stuff, i understand that he likes dr. strange, but he doesnt have to tie him into every other spider-man arc. and about the overpowered stuff, most marvel heroes wouldnt stand a chance against DC heroes (besides the omega level guys like jean, magneto etc) and overall i dont feel like the DC heroes have real lives, its the themes behind the stories like x-men and spider-man, the and the family like bond of the FF and other human like qualities that attract me to marvel. boo to DC

Straczynski does need to just write a Dr. Strange mini and get that out of his system; maybe Ult. Strange.

DC has a lot of non-overpowered heroes, it's just that most people think of the JLA when they think of DC, and the JLA are the most overpowered hero group in the DCU. Batman's troops all have "real lives", hell even Superman has a "real life", you just don't get that from watching JLA or reading teamup books or big crossovers.

basey44

Mon, 01-24-2005, 10:54 PM

batman wasnt so bad, but i only liked the first movie, it was nice and dark
i didnt read the comics of it, and i didnt like the cartoons

Mon, 01-24-2005, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by: basey_69
batman wasnt so bad, but i only liked the first movie, it was nice and dark
i didnt read the comics of it, and i didnt like the cartoons

that is because you have poor taste.

Well, avoiding pre-Crisis Batman is a great idea, but there are a LOT of great Batman comics. And, of course, animated Batman is the best cartoon ever.

i hate teen titans, i hate it wen they just group together a lot of superheros like that, reminds me of like super friends or something like that. i mean how hard would it be to come up with something original, instead of saying "hey we need some money, lets make a show full of old boring heros, and make them teenagers"

All the characters in TT have well established comic backgrounds outside of the team, so saying that they were just "old superheros made teenagers" is wrong. Frankly, the superfriends comparison is retarded; your only connection is that they are both teams, great job.

fremeer

Mon, 01-24-2005, 11:24 PM

ive never read a teen titans comic book because we cant get them here in australia i just find that having a person do something physically impossible is kinda cool. the flash would need like superman thick skin to survive the speeds he is going at.
The show is meant for little pokemon level kids while the comic is meant for a little older audience

chambers

Mon, 01-24-2005, 11:29 PM

Y care to break it down for me?

explain pre crisis and what was odne after it to the main franchises??

Mon, 01-24-2005, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by: chambers
Y care to break it down for me?

explain pre crisis and what was odne after it to the main franchises??

I will do one better, here's the link to a comics FAQ (http://www.chickswithguns.net/sa/faq.html) written for another board.

Souryusen

Mon, 01-24-2005, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by: Y The Alien
I will do one better, here's the link to a comics FAQ (http://www.chickswithguns.net/sa/faq.html) written for another board.

God damn.. I think I remember why I stopped reading comic books.

Though I did skim the Wolverine origin.

RasenDori

Tue, 01-25-2005, 12:02 AM

haha! the how did psylocke die section is hillarious... is so true vargas did her in, then becomes a minor threat until rogue beat the living crap out of him. sigh vargas has so much potential, why did claremont fail so miserablly on him?

Tue, 01-25-2005, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by: Souryusen

Originally posted by: Y The Alien
I will do one better, here's the link to a comics FAQ (http://www.chickswithguns.net/sa/faq.html) written for another board.

God damn.. I think I remember why I stopped reading comic books.
.

Why, because it's a bit harder to get into than "lol they hit each other with kamehamehas"?

drcitan

Tue, 01-25-2005, 12:19 AM

I guess I shoud'nt even waste my time reading it. It sounds almost as bad as those battle match-ups on naruto fan.

Souryusen

Tue, 01-25-2005, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by: Y The Alien
Why, because it's a bit harder to get into than "lol they hit each other with kamehamehas"?

Though I would not have stated it as such, yes, that is essentially correct.

Continuity, plotholes and writer turnover. It's difficult to stay abreast of an entire universe, especially one that gets turned upside down every few years.

I appreciate comic books as an artform. I sometimes still go to comic shops and have a walk around, always learn something new. (Apparently the Marvel universe had a big gender change at some point? Saw a bust of Spider-girl and a Female Thor) It's just not for me anymore.

Assertn

Tue, 01-25-2005, 03:27 AM

anything marvel will be a LOT more familiar with the general audience here than anime.....i assure you

btw, just a little tidbit you might find interesting.....
i'm friends with the girl who the original starfire (is that her name? the flying alien girl) was modelled after

PSJ

Tue, 01-25-2005, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by: RasenDori

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
you seriously read that crap like spiderman and all those shitty super hero comics?

dude... spidey and x-men rock. especially j. micheal stratzynksy's run on amazing spider-man, simply amazing. you should check give american books more of a chance, there are tons of stuff out there that is pure gold. like anything with stratzynsky's or bendis name on it. honestly i cant see how someone can read manga and not enjoy american books too (yeah... im gonna get flamed)... but over all... DC SUCKS!!! everyone is overpowered (even batman) and are completely uninteresting. its not wonder the titans win that battle, because DC heros are too outrageous. god i hate DC so much.

batman is one fucked up super hero, my brother was watching justice league the other day as i sat down and had my meal, and batman is on the same level as superman, what is that? batman got alot of money and supercool gadgets so suddenly he turns into this super mega super hero who can defeat all!!! and i have read my share of american comics its the same bullshit story everytime a bunch of super heroes rescue the universe from the evil super villian who wants to eat/rule/destroy the universe, very original. exept for spiderman where we get to hear the pains of life from a nerd who just happens to be spiderman and saves the universe every now and then. fomr what i have read there isnt any story about the characters the only thing that happens is that they put on their suit and rescues something. prove me wrong if you'd like Y since you seem to be the bulshit comic professor around here.

Mut

Tue, 01-25-2005, 01:08 PM

Terracosmo

Tue, 01-25-2005, 01:15 PM

Assertn's friend later got replaced by me, however.

DeathscytheVII

Tue, 01-25-2005, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
btw, just a little tidbit you might find interesting.....
i'm friends with the girl who the original starfire (is that her name? the flying alien girl) was modelled after

Wait, original starfire? The cartoon one? Or comic book one (Bleh i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif) i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

Starfire (http://www.titanstower.com/assets/animated/behind%20scenes/animatedcompare/starsm.jpg)

Tue, 01-25-2005, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya

batman is one fucked up super hero, my brother was watching justice league the other day as i sat down and had my meal, and batman is on the same level as superman, what is that? batman got alot of money and supercool gadgets so suddenly he turns into this super mega super hero who can defeat all!!! and i have read my share of american comics its the same bullshit story everytime a bunch of super heroes rescue the universe from the evil super villian who wants to eat/rule/destroy the universe, very original. exept for spiderman where we get to hear the pains of life from a nerd who just happens to be spiderman and saves the universe every now and then. fomr what i have read there isnt any story about the characters the only thing that happens is that they put on their suit and rescues something. prove me wrong if you'd like Y since you seem to be the bulshit comic professor around here.

Sure buddy, there is no personal drama in comicbooks! Because Watchmen and Sandman and The Walking Dead and V for Vendetta and Sin City and Preacher and Transmetropolitan just don't exist! all American comics must be "lol superheros lol" because PSJ says so. Also, all superheroes are nothing but one note characters defined only by their powers, because there has never been personal drama written about Clark Kent, or Bruce Wayne, or Kyle Rayner, or Hal Jordan, or Wally West, or Frank Castle, or Tony Stark, or any of the X-Men! Clearly, none of these characters are ever seen having "real life" drama. Every hero in comics just fights cosmic villains! You are also a motherfucking expert on comics from having watched 1 episode of a cartoon and picked up an issue every now and then!

Jesus Christ, you're fucking retarded. Shut up. You judged a character based on your vast amount of experience, which consists of watching him once while you ate? What an incredibly stupid, judgemental retard. You think that every superhero comic is just "a bunch of heroes" who "rescue the universe"? Well, gee PSJ, maybe you think that because all you have ever fucking seen is Justice League and you've never read an entire TPB in your life! Yet you still feel qualified to make judgements; probably a result of your failed sense of personal empowerment.

I should make a blatantly trolling post like yours, only directed at the Japanese animation industry:

Man, I sure fucking hate those Japanese animes. Most ones made within the last fifteen years are just generic Shounen trash shoveled out by the same three TV animation studios in order to cash in on the success of popular manga! Japanese TV animation is absurdly low quality because of the vast amount being done by the studio, but they can count on dipshit fans who only watch it because of the Japanese art style or generic fighting action/shitty japanese comedy/unrealistic, unbelievably stupid romance to rake in the cash on DVD sales! Japanese TV anime has not a speck of original talent running through it, as the animation, plotlines, and characters are just recycled from manga that is only produced for a quick buck from gullible fanboys anyway!

Oh wait. That is all fucking true! And unlike you, I actually have experienced some of the stuff I am talking about.

basey44

Tue, 01-25-2005, 08:01 PM

calm down

Tue, 01-25-2005, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by: basey_69
calm down

not angry

jing

Tue, 01-25-2005, 08:35 PM

I should make a blatantly trolling post like yours, only directed at the Japanese animation industry:

Man, I sure fucking hate those Japanese animes. Most ones made within the last fifteen years are just generic Shounen trash shoveled out by the same three TV animation studios in order to cash in on the success of popular manga! Japanese TV animation is absurdly low quality because of the vast amount being done by the studio, but they can count on dipshit fans who only watch it because of the Japanese art style or generic fighting action/shitty japanese comedy/unrealistic, unbelievably stupid romance to rake in the cash on DVD sales! Japanese TV anime has not a speck of original talent running through it, as the animation, plotlines, and characters are just recycled from manga that is only produced for a quick buck from gullible fanboys anyway!

oh yeah i agree completely on this part. only once in a while will we see an anime that is worth while to watch. (and no it isnt naruto).

oh if you compared Batman and Superman. You'd know Batman would own him, cuz he has a kryptonite.

I like teen titans and naruto... so i'll sit out on this one.

Deblas

Tue, 01-25-2005, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by: DeathscytheVII

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
btw, just a little tidbit you might find interesting.....
i'm friends with the girl who the original starfire (is that her name? the flying alien girl) was modelled after

Wait, original starfire? The cartoon one? Or comic book one (Bleh )

Starfire (http://www.titanstower.com/assets/animated/behind%20scenes/animatedcompare/starsm.jpg)

man, the comic book starfire is ugly!

Assertn

Tue, 01-25-2005, 09:06 PM

er.....wtf?
no she has nothing to do with the new cartoon starfire.....but um........i doubt that old comic book one was the one i had in mind either

she was actually like, 10-13 years old or something when she was modelled for it

Tue, 01-25-2005, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by: Deblas

Starfire (http://www.titanstower.com/assets/animated/behind%20scenes/animatedcompare/starsm.jpg)

man, the comic book starfire is ugly![/quote]

80's art.

Better Titans art, the full version of the cover from that article (http://img186.exs.cx/img186/5079/teentitans001pg00coverb6zv.jpg)

Assertn

Tue, 01-25-2005, 09:49 PM

werent the teen titans supposed to be...........in their teens?

Tue, 01-25-2005, 10:11 PM

they are, so, uh, what is the problem?

except for Cyborg who is a consultant.

Deblas

Tue, 01-25-2005, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by: Y The Alien

Originally posted by: Deblas

Starfire (http://www.titanstower.com/assets/animated/behind%20scenes/animatedcompare/starsm.jpg)

man, the comic book starfire is ugly!

80's art.

Better Titans art, the full version of the cover from that article (http://img186.exs.cx/img186/5079/teentitans001pg00coverb6zv.jpg)[/quote]

now thats much better i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

RasenDori

Tue, 01-25-2005, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by: Y The Alien
they are, so, uh, what is the problem?

except for Cyborg who is a consultant.

ok... im not the most well versed person when it comes to DC, but... werent starfire, raven, cyborg, and beastboy on the same titans team as the first robin (dick grayson/ nightwing) as some point? if that is the case, they clearly arent teens anymore, since nightwing is somewhere in his 20s now.

Originally posted by: Y The Alien

Sure buddy, there is no personal drama in comicbooks! Because Watchmen and Sandman and The Walking Dead and V for Vendetta and Sin City and Preacher and Transmetropolitan just don't exist! all American comics must be "lol superheros lol" because PSJ says so. Also, all superheroes are nothing but one note characters defined only by their powers, because there has never been personal drama written about Clark Kent, or Bruce Wayne, or Kyle Rayner, or Hal Jordan, or Wally West, or Frank Castle, or Tony Stark, or any of the X-Men! Clearly, none of these characters are ever seen having "real life" drama. Every hero in comics just fights cosmic villains! You are also a motherfucking expert on comics from having watched 1 episode of a cartoon and picked up an issue every now and then!

Jesus Christ, you're fucking retarded. Shut up. You judged a character based on your vast amount of experience, which consists of watching him once while you ate? What an incredibly stupid, judgemental retard. You think that every superhero comic is just "a bunch of heroes" who "rescue the universe"? Well, gee PSJ, maybe you think that because all you have ever fucking seen is Justice League and you've never read an entire TPB in your life! Yet you still feel qualified to make judgements; probably a result of your failed sense of personal empowerment.

I should make a blatantly trolling post like yours, only directed at the Japanese animation industry:

Man, I sure fucking hate those Japanese animes. Most ones made within the last fifteen years are just generic Shounen trash shoveled out by the same three TV animation studios in order to cash in on the success of popular manga! Japanese TV animation is absurdly low quality because of the vast amount being done by the studio, but they can count on dipshit fans who only watch it because of the Japanese art style or generic fighting action/shitty japanese comedy/unrealistic, unbelievably stupid romance to rake in the cash on DVD sales! Japanese TV anime has not a speck of original talent running through it, as the animation, plotlines, and characters are just recycled from manga that is only produced for a quick buck from gullible fanboys anyway!

Oh wait. That is all fucking true! And unlike you, I actually have experienced some of the stuff I am talking about.

preach on brother. if you guys hate american books give those that he listed a try. ive read V for vendetta, watchmen, and preacher, they are all gold. give rising stars a try too... ive only read like 2 issues of it, but it rocks (like i said, anything with strazynskys name on it kicks ass... unless it involves spider-man and the negative zone... leave the neg zone for the fantastic four... please)

and if anyone else wants to make broad generalizations about american books, take a good look at all the shonen books out there... they ALL basically follow the exact same character schemes. at least american books dont have the same personality running around in 15 million different books.

EDIT: btw Y, i dont keep up with american books as much as a should because im currently jobless, but i would like to know... since when did spoiler become robin, and why did tim quit?

Wed, 01-26-2005, 12:27 AM

ok... im not the most well versed person when it comes to DC, but... werent starfire, raven, cyborg, and beastboy on the same titans team as the first robin (dick grayson/ nightwing) as some point? if that is the case, they clearly arent teens anymore, since nightwing is somewhere in his 20s now.

I think Nightwing is just barely 20 or 21 - remember, time is quite fluid in DC, and they de-aged most of the heroes in Crisis. Also, Cyborg isn't a teenager, but Raven is (her body was destroyed and reformed a bit younger than it was previously). Starfire isn't a teenager anymore either, she's on the Titans as an honorary position. Beast Boy was just really young when he joined.

Also, Tim quit being Robin when his father found out who he was. Batman put Spoiler in his place until he returned, then she got fired, which let to the events in War Games (in which something pretty big happens to Spoiler).

?igma

Wed, 01-26-2005, 05:58 AM

Ok generally, if it was for the win in power, the teens would beat Naruto..why ?, because nothing can beat Americans ofcourse!!, only Taliban can, and they are considered "unreal"by the American government.
American art and comics all come down to one point. The American superiority. Their adults rock! and Their TEENS ROCK!!
American comics, as Japanese comics (after all that would be the exact translation of anime), are based upon one mainchar and some sidechars, however the sidechars in Anime are often more left in the background (ok so not in Naruto, but still) where the American comics revel in making every single one of their sidekicks superheroes on them selves!!, why, because its merchandise!! Whats is better then to sell rerun over rerun over rerun?? Sell the EXACT same stories with a DIFFERENT mainchar!!! briliant! and what would the best mainchar be? the best sidekick from the LAST SERIES!! XD ohMG Americans do rock.

If we would talk about storyline, animation, indepth emotions, personalities, athmosphere, sensibility, music, VOCALS!!@@!! (and I'm leaving DBZ out, bc the Japanese vocals of DBZ are teh suck and teh gay and teh fag ..well whatever) and most !!! important!!! SPIRIT!!! the Japanese anime would stretch its pink and molest the American comics. RAPE it would be!! TERRORRIST ATTACK it would be!! BANG@@@, the pillars of the American youth would crumble in front of their eyes. And even one reason would suffice for this. The American comic has no spirit. It is gathered by eons of history and grabbed straight from other comics. Americans have NO SENSE of HUMOR, thus they can not EVER come close to some of the most WORST anime in the Japanese history, let alone what a BRILIANT anime would leave of the American pride.

NOTHING!

Terracosmo

Wed, 01-26-2005, 07:28 AM

Y has many good points.

I don't agree with people saying that "american comics sucks aszzz". Granted, they are quite different from japanese ones but that's definately not only bad. I love the X-Men, I loved the Daredevil comic I had as a kid (his past was like super-cool) and I've worshipped Gambit a longer time than I've worshipped Neji, Yzak & Kimimaro together. All hail american comics!

RasenDori

Wed, 01-26-2005, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Y has many good points.

I don't agree with people saying that "american comics sucks aszzz". Granted, they are quite different from japanese ones but that's definately not only bad. I love the X-Men, I loved the Daredevil comic I had as a kid (his past was like super-cool) and I've worshipped Gambit a longer time than I've worshipped Neji, Yzak & Kimimaro together. All hail american comics!

you worship neji and gambit!!!
we are too much alike its scary! (by the way, you should read xtreme x-men, gambits is absolutly excellent in it)

EDIT: this needs to be said:

Originally posted by: ?igma
Ok generally, if it was for the win in power, the teens would beat Naruto..why ?, because nothing can beat Americans ofcourse!!, only Taliban can, and they are considered "unreal"by the American government.
American art and comics all come down to one point. The American superiority. Their adults rock! and Their TEENS ROCK!!
American comics, as Japanese comics (after all that would be the exact translation of anime), are based upon one mainchar and some sidechars, however the sidechars in Anime are often more left in the background (ok so not in Naruto, but still) where the American comics revel in making every single one of their sidekicks superheroes on them selves!!, why, because its merchandise!! Whats is better then to sell rerun over rerun over rerun?? Sell the EXACT same stories with a DIFFERENT mainchar!!! briliant! and what would the best mainchar be? the best sidekick from the LAST SERIES!! XD ohMG Americans do rock.

If we would talk about storyline, animation, indepth emotions, personalities, athmosphere, sensibility, music, VOCALS!!@@!! (and I'm leaving DBZ out, bc the Japanese vocals of DBZ are teh suck and teh gay and teh fag ..well whatever) and most !!! important!!! SPIRIT!!! the Japanese anime would stretch its pink and molest the American comics. RAPE it would be!! TERRORRIST ATTACK it would be!! BANG@@@, the pillars of the American youth would crumble in front of their eyes. And even one reason would suffice for this. The American comic has no spirit. It is gathered by eons of history and grabbed straight from other comics. Americans have NO SENSE of HUMOR, thus they can not EVER come close to some of the most WORST anime in the Japanese history, let alone what a BRILIANT anime would leave of the American pride.

iNOTHING!

ts true that merchindising and sales have to do with a lot of the crap that flows out here in america, however the same remains true in japan. money corupts all. to weed out all the crap and find the good stuff you should do like i do and follow certain writers, read reviews, avoid books with the names of side characters as the title, and dammit... listen to me and Y. we arent trying to steer you wrong. too many people here make broad generalizations about american books with out giving them much of a chance. you are now better then the guys on that site that made the same generalizations about manga and anime. face it:

YOU ARE BOTH WRONG!!!

someon had to be reasonalbe enough to say it. the truth of the matter is that the comic book (american or japanese, don give me that crap about how manga is not a comic book) is work of art. sure some times its been butchered by capitalism, but so has film. like painting the comics style changes based upon culture. so y dont you guys just stfu, and stop being ignorant asses that base their entire knowledge on american books on horrilbe american cartoons and a few bad x-men and spider-man comics you read in the mid 90s. think about it, if i based my entire knowledge of manga after on reading DBZ or coasic rune (its bad, very very bad, avoid it at all cost) would i be able to make an acurate assumption about the thousands of manga stories that exist? HELL NO! people like you that makes these broad assumptions about american books, and the people on that other site that do the same for manga are the very reason comic books dont get the literary respect they deserve. ... sigh... but its true that i want to write and draw comics one day... so i can go on about this for ages... i will spare you the rest of my rant and get off of my soap box

PSJ

Wed, 01-26-2005, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by: Y The Alien

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya

batman is one fucked up super hero, my brother was watching justice league the other day as i sat down and had my meal, and batman is on the same level as superman, what is that? batman got alot of money and supercool gadgets so suddenly he turns into this super mega super hero who can defeat all!!! and i have read my share of american comics its the same bullshit story everytime a bunch of super heroes rescue the universe from the evil super villian who wants to eat/rule/destroy the universe, very original. exept for spiderman where we get to hear the pains of life from a nerd who just happens to be spiderman and saves the universe every now and then. fomr what i have read there isnt any story about the characters the only thing that happens is that they put on their suit and rescues something. prove me wrong if you'd like Y since you seem to be the bulshit comic professor around here.

Sure buddy, there is no personal drama in comicbooks! Because Watchmen and Sandman and The Walking Dead and V for Vendetta and Sin City and Preacher and Transmetropolitan just don't exist! all American comics must be "lol superheros lol" because PSJ says so. Also, all superheroes are nothing but one note characters defined only by their powers, because there has never been personal drama written about Clark Kent, or Bruce Wayne, or Kyle Rayner, or Hal Jordan, or Wally West, or Frank Castle, or Tony Stark, or any of the X-Men! Clearly, none of these characters are ever seen having "real life" drama. Every hero in comics just fights cosmic villains! You are also a motherfucking expert on comics from having watched 1 episode of a cartoon and picked up an issue every now and then!

Jesus Christ, you're fucking retarded. Shut up. You judged a character based on your vast amount of experience, which consists of watching him once while you ate? What an incredibly stupid, judgemental retard. You think that every superhero comic is just "a bunch of heroes" who "rescue the universe"? Well, gee PSJ, maybe you think that because all you have ever fucking seen is Justice League and you've never read an entire TPB in your life! Yet you still feel qualified to make judgements; probably a result of your failed sense of personal empowerment.

I should make a blatantly trolling post like yours, only directed at the Japanese animation industry:

Man, I sure fucking hate those Japanese animes. Most ones made within the last fifteen years are just generic Shounen trash shoveled out by the same three TV animation studios in order to cash in on the success of popular manga! Japanese TV animation is absurdly low quality because of the vast amount being done by the studio, but they can count on dipshit fans who only watch it because of the Japanese art style or generic fighting action/shitty japanese comedy/unrealistic, unbelievably stupid romance to rake in the cash on DVD sales! Japanese TV anime has not a speck of original talent running through it, as the animation, plotlines, and characters are just recycled from manga that is only produced for a quick buck from gullible fanboys anyway!

Oh wait. That is all fucking true! And unlike you, I actually have experienced some of the stuff I am talking about.

i didnt exactly form an opinion just from that one episode i saw, i just took it as an example. i've read my share of american comics and in most of them i came across the same concept, saving the universe. i havent read much more than some marvel comics its not really that easy to get a hold of all the other comics here in sweden.... if i've just come across a small portion of comics that got this save the world theme you cant really blame me from forming an opinion from that, why dont you prove me wrong instead of calling me retard, moron and shit like that. i dont really care but you doesnt sound all that smart and if you think someone will listen to you just cause you call them moron you're wrong....

Terracosmo

Wed, 01-26-2005, 01:39 PM

I can't recall many marvel comics I read that was about saving the universe...

PSJ

Wed, 01-26-2005, 01:50 PM

i read some mega marvel volumes with some gang of super heroes fighting a big witch or something. and the spiderman tv series had that theme a number of times. the rest of what i read wasnt all that interesting to me they were focusing to much on the super hero and his fighting to save the world, becmae boring pretty quick.

Thunder_Pants

Wed, 01-26-2005, 01:57 PM

wasn't Silver Surfers arch enemy a planet or at least planet sized being that liked to eat other planets and then move on to the next planet

sounds like stoping him is saving the universe.....but whatever

you know, one thing i never understood about the Marvel universe was all the anti-mutant sentiment i mean, they are ok with people having all maner of super powers as long as they are from radiation accidents/a vitimin supliment/etc, but not if it's genetic?

but then i think the marvel character that baffles me the most is the Hulks nemmisis The Leader:

Lets see Hero: Big green dumb strong guy Villion Small green smart guy
not very creative and the moral ends up being "clever planning and logic can never win against the sheer physical brutality of a guy who barely even knows where he is" this is not the moral your average comic book reader wants to read

jing

Wed, 01-26-2005, 02:31 PM

PSJ

Wed, 01-26-2005, 02:44 PM

i dont know much either never claimed i did. the mega marvel story was some group with cpatian america and a girl who could become small and shit and aobut 50 others. scarlett witch was in it to and a guy named wonder man who was supposed to be dead, they fought a evil celtic witch or something who wanted to destroy the earth or rule it or something i think, i read it like 7 years ago.... i also read about an x men story in mega marvel where they saved the universe or something i dont remember to clearly. as for the spiderman tv series it was the one with madam web and all the parellel universe with carnage spiderman wanting to blow everything up.... if that isnt specific enough im sorry i dont know much more than that really. as you probably get my experience with american comics is quite limited.....

so i can agree to that it was stupid of me to start discussing aobut this stuff with my limited knowledge but oh well done is done. another thing i dont like about american comics is how they change artists and how american comics really have no end. i want a begining and an end of a story.

LobsterMagnet

Wed, 01-26-2005, 05:20 PM

American comics are so fricking convoluted. There are to many alternate universes/dimensions. To many cross overs and teams ups. The time-lines and universes all intersect and bisect and contridict one another. None of it ever makes sense to me. Thats why I never got into american comics.

Teen Titans suck. I've never read the real comics but judging from the artwork they don't look that tough. Robin is their leader right? He isn't even a real fricking super hero. He has no powers. Just his wits and a utility belt. I've seen the animated teen titans and they suck even more. I hate it when american animation series try to imitate anime. Plus the Teen Titans seems to consist of C- super heros who combat D+ villians. Has anyone ever seen the show? They spend a whole episode chasing down a magician. A MAGICIAN for christ sake. Naruto wins hands down.

Man this is dumb thread. I wonder who would win? Naruto vs. Captain Nemo. Naruto vs. the Hulk. Naruto vs. Battle Star Galactica. Naruto and team 7 vs. the Fantastic Four. Or how about the entire Leaf village vs. The Covenent from halo or the Combine from Half-Life2.

KitKat

Wed, 01-26-2005, 05:31 PM

This is a little off-topic, but I wanted to add to this.

Originally posted by: LobsterMagnet
American comics are so fricking convoluted. There are to many alternate universes/dimensions. To many cross overs and teams ups. The time-lines and universes all intersect and bisect and contridict one another. None of it ever makes sense to me. Thats why I never got into american comics.

I got given this book as a joke gift for Christmas: 'Star Trek and X-Men on Planet X'.
Probably one of the weirdest most convoluted crossovers ever. Granted, it was a novel and not a comic, but it was still wretchedly awful. I tried reading it out of curiosity, but couldn't get past the first few pages. Some things should not be combined. Ever.

RasenDori

Wed, 01-26-2005, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
i read some mega marvel volumes with some gang of super heroes fighting a big witch or something. and the spiderman tv series had that theme a number of times. the rest of what i read wasnt all that interesting to me they were focusing to much on the super hero and his fighting to save the world, becmae boring pretty quick.

any mega cross over is just a way to get your money.. . avoid it at all cost

seems like you missed the entire theme of spider-man. it can be summed up in six words "with great power coems great responsibilty. most comics have reocurriing themes. the x-men is a critique on racism, the fantastic four is a family, the hulk deals with a severe bi-polar disorder. give these books a little more of a chance and you will see that they are much deeper then you expected.

Originally posted by: Thunder_Pants
wasn't Silver Surfers arch enemy a planet or at least planet sized being that liked to eat other planets and then move on to the next planet

sounds like stoping him is saving the universe.....but whatever

you know, one thing i never understood about the Marvel universe was all the anti-mutant sentiment i mean, they are ok with people having all maner of super powers as long as they are from radiation accidents/a vitimin supliment/etc, but not if it's genetic?

but then i think the marvel character that baffles me the most is the Hulks nemmisis The Leader:

Lets see Hero: Big green dumb strong guy Villion Small green smart guy
not very creative and the moral ends up being "clever planning and logic can never win against the sheer physical brutality of a guy who barely even knows where he is" this is not the moral your average comic book reader wants to read

humans hate mutants because they are born different, and their very existance means that homo sapiens are on the verge of extenction.
and the hulks real nemesis is himself... i think any story that doesnt have to deal with that conflict is a bad hulk story

Originally posted by: LobsterMagnet
American comics are so fricking convoluted. There are to many alternate universes/dimensions. To many cross overs and teams ups. The time-lines and universes all intersect and bisect and contridict one another. None of it ever makes sense to me. Thats why I never got into american comics.

Teen Titans suck. I've never read the real comics but judging from the artwork they don't look that tough. Robin is their leader right? He isn't even a real fricking super hero. He has no powers. Just his wits and a utility belt. I've seen the animated teen titans and they suck even more. I hate it when american animation series try to imitate anime. Plus the Teen Titans seems to consist of C- super heros who combat D+ villians. Has anyone ever seen the show? They spend a whole episode chasing down a magician. A MAGICIAN for christ sake. Naruto wins hands down.

Man this is dumb thread. I wonder who would win? Naruto vs. Captain Nemo. Naruto vs. the Hulk. Naruto vs. Battle Star Galactica. Naruto and team 7 vs. the Fantastic Four. Or how about the entire Leaf village vs. The Covenent from halo or the Combine from Half-Life2.

the concept of alternate dimensions is not a very difficult one one to understand, and only really pertains to books in the marvel universe now since DC wiped out that idea years ago, thats what the whole crisis thing was all about. marvel currently has the exiles which actually kind of makes light of the whole alternate reality issue, but sine alternate dimensions are so intertwined with the fantastic four, and alternate realiteis have allowed marve lto do such things as the ultimate series, age of apocolypse, and days of future past (where are all really good) marvel will never ditch the concept.

Wed, 01-26-2005, 06:08 PM

i didnt exactly form an opinion just from that one episode i saw, i just took it as an example.

yeah, that IS forming an opinion. you used it as an example to form your opinion about comics.

i've read my share of american comics and in most of them i came across the same concept, saving the universe.

That is because you don't read a whole hell of a lot of comics. I can name some mainstream anime that just end up with "save the world", does that mean that all anime tends towards this trend? No. In addition, the fact that several comics tend towards an "epic" feel doesn't mean that an epic storyline about large-scale heroism is overdone, or that it is a bad idea.

i havent read much more than some marvel comics its not really that easy to get a hold of all the other comics here in sweden....

Understandable, but if you can't get a hold of decent non-mainstream comics, why would you go ahead and form an opinion about all American comics? If you need some good titles, I can recommend you some to download.

if i've just come across a small portion of comics that got this save the world theme you cant really blame me from forming an opinion from that,

Yes I can. If you don't know enough about a subject to form a reasonably informed opinion, you just don't talk about it.

why dont you prove me wrong instead of calling me retard, moron and shit like that.

why, when I can do both?

you know, one thing i never understood about the Marvel universe was all the anti-mutant sentiment i mean, they are ok with people having all maner of super powers as long as they are from radiation accidents/a vitimin supliment/etc, but not if it's genetic?

the thing here is that you are wrong. most Marvel universe citizens assume ALL superpowered beings are either hostile nonhumans, or mutants. Spiderman is widely hated because it is assumed he is a mutant vigilante. Pretty much the only "popular" superheros in the MU are ones like the Avengers, who are either not superhuman like Captain America or get their powers from technology like Hank Pym and Ironman. Plus, bigots in the MU being hypocrites is used as a social commentary a lot of the time.

not very creative and the moral ends up being "clever planning and logic can never win against the sheer physical brutality of a guy who barely even knows where he is" this is not the moral your average comic book reader wants to read

The "moral" in Hulk is generally "things get blown up real good". But if you want to read into it, the statement here is that the animalistic nature of man is just as fearsome and terrible as the vast intellectual power he weilds. Sure it's a bit negative, but I'll take a darkly written book over such trite shit as "the power of friendship lets us win!", which is found in just about every shounen comic ever written.

LobsterMagnet:
American comics are so fricking convoluted. There are to many alternate universes/dimensions. To many cross overs and teams ups. The time-lines and universes all intersect and bisect and contridict one another. None of it ever makes sense to me. Thats why I never got into american comics.

that is a weak viewpoint. You have probably memorized the names, family relationships and powers of dozens of Naruto characters, and that is just for 1 title. You're telling me that remembering that Kid Flash is from the future and that Starfire is an alien is just too hard for you?

Teen Titans suck. I've never read the real comics

and that is where your opinion stops mattering

chambers

Wed, 01-26-2005, 06:11 PM

some cross overs are good. and im sure its somthing anime and manga writers/producers would do if one studio owned the rights to 2 or more hugley succesfull franchises based in a similar time persiod or setting.

PSJ

Wed, 01-26-2005, 06:15 PM

we get it Y you know your stuff but dont be an ass about it.

Assertn

Wed, 01-26-2005, 06:16 PM

transmetropolitan is a very strange, taboo, and pessimistic series.....
certainly something ive yet to find in anime

Wed, 01-26-2005, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by: chambers
some cross overs are good. and im sure its somthing anime and manga writers/producers would do if one studio owned the rights to 2 or more hugley succesfull franchises based in a similar time persiod or setting.

It has been done, Shounen Jump put out a DBZ/One Piece crossover a while back.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
transmetropolitan is a very strange, taboo, and pessimistic series.....
certainly something ive yet to find in anime

That is the problem with judging American comics only by "cape books", so to speak - you miss out on all the non mainstream work like Sin City, Sandman, Transmetropolitan, Alan Moore's works, stuff that totally trounces most mainstream cape books.

LobsterMagnet

Wed, 01-26-2005, 06:28 PM

American comics are fricking ridiculous. RasenDori's statement says it all "ultimate series, age of apocolypse, and days of future past." How the hell can you justify three versions of the same crap? The original source material may not be crap but when it's remade, redone, remixed, and repackaged the original material tends to lose it's shine. I'm sick a future versions and past versions and remakes of the same stuff.

Why does there need to be an ultimate series just to tell the same stories again with new character designs.

Why does there need to be a age of apocolypse where all the super heros fight against some evil super being or the alien and predator.

What the hell are the days of futures past? What about the tomorrow that never comes? Or the day after yesterday before saturday on the noon of Wolverines second cousin's birthday.

Then you have the team ups and time travel. Just take a look at the several batman series. Poor old batman has been reinvented and reinvented again and again. Many of these revisions and remakes have dumbed down the core character. For evidence look no further then the most recent Batman cartoon complete with a Rastifarian Joker and a Man Bat.

Wed, 01-26-2005, 06:48 PM

RasenDori

Wed, 01-26-2005, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by: LobsterMagnet
American comics are fricking ridiculous. RasenDori's statement says it all "ultimate series, age of apocolypse, and days of future past." How the hell can you justify three versions of the same crap? The original source material may not be crap but when it's remade, redone, remixed, and repackaged the original material tends to lose it's shine. I'm sick a future versions and past versions and remakes of the same stuff.

Why does there need to be an ultimate series just to tell the same stories again with new character designs.

Why does there need to be a age of apocolypse where all the super heros fight against some evil super being or the alien and predator.

What the hell are the days of futures past? What about the tomorrow that never comes? Or the day after yesterday before saturday on the noon of Wolverines second cousin's birthday.

Then you have the team ups and time travel. Just take a look at the several batman series. Poor old batman has been reinvented and reinvented again and again. Many of these revisions and remakes have dumbed down the core character. For evidence look no further then the most recent Batman cartoon complete with a Rastifarian Joker and a Man Bat.

the ultimate line isnt just the same story told over again with new designs. it takes existing characters and provides a new personality and character relations *points in the direction of gwen stacy*. marvel basically admitted that it was bogged down wtih 40+ years of continuity, the ultimate series is new reader friendly, but its also something completely different so that the older fans can enjoy them too. not only that, but the ultimate line has a great sense of interconectivity something that happens in one book effects them all and you can that the ultimate series has its own deeper plot going on within all of the books.

age of apocolypes was the perfect what would the world be like it apocolypes had his way. you see the major differneces in each of the characters in a world without xavier. total chaos. and the character interaction was just great.

lobster magnet, dont judge a book buy its cover, try reading it. if someone told me about a story with some idiot ninja clad in orange running around talking about he wants to be something called hokage with silly skills like harem no jutsu, i would have laughed at him and dismissed the idea as total crap. but as you all know that is not the case. everyone needs stop making stupid broad generalizations. it only makes you look ignorant. if you hate the superhero stories fine, try reading preacher, or v for vendetta. if i judged manga based upon those crappy sexual angst comedies like love hina... i probally would have found naruto, gantz, one piece and all the other stories i treasure. this arguement can go on and on, however it seems that the only ones here educated enough to have a real arguement about american comics versus manga would be me, Y, and terracosmo. everone else here seems to be too fixated on saying things like "alternate realities suck" "superheroes are crap" "saving the world... blah blah blah" go read something outside the mainsteam, hell you can even read something in the main stream and if you look closely enough (and by looking closely enough i mean stop your petty search for extreme power-ups, ki/chakra/life spirt/energy blast, and blue hair, and try to actually see the deepth behind the damn book)

Wed, 01-26-2005, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by: RasenDori
this arguement can go on and on, however it seems that the only ones here educated enough to have a real arguement about american comics versus manga would be me, Y, and terracosmo. everone else here seems to be too fixated on saying things like "alternate realities suck" "superheroes are crap" "saving the world... blah blah blah" go read something outside the mainsteam, hell you can even read something in the main stream and if you look closely enough (and by looking closely enough i mean stop your petty search for extreme power-ups, ki/chakra/life spirt/energy blast, and blue hair, and try to actually see the deepth behind the damn book)

Fuckin' superslam by rasendori.

Assertn

Wed, 01-26-2005, 07:18 PM

lobstermagnet: simple....because the remakes are meant to target a generation that wasnt around to experience the originals.
xmen evolution isnt meant to target the same audience that grew up to the original xmen comics

just like how the new ninja turtles series isnt meant to target fans of the original series

LobsterMagnet

Wed, 01-26-2005, 07:25 PM

If marvel needs to create an entire new lineup of comic series just to sort out all of the convoluted storylines essentially proves my point. Through various forms of media I am vaguely familiar with most of the major super heros and the dynamics that make them appealing. I just don't think that they've been handled very well. Even the best property can die a quick death in incompetant hands. Does anyone here remember what happened to Family Guy and Futurama when they originally aired on fox? Because of the mismangement the overall appeal of comics has diminished. American Comics tend to be very unfriendly to outsiders and in some cases they can be down right intimidating.

Remember when Superman died. It was tragic, every five year old across the nation dried their tears as the man of steel was laid to rest. Killing off superman may have been drastic but it created a sense of closure. No superman couldn't have just died off peacefully. There had to be more money to be squezed from his corpse there just had to be more money. Then there was the rebirth of superman where there was a superboy, a robot superman, and a cyborg superman. This followed with a confusing rebirth of Superman when Superman should have just been left alone.

What I like about animes and mangas is that they generally follow a linear story progression. There is a beginning and an end. The end my come after thirteen episodes or the end may come after 300 episodes but then end is still there. The American comics seem just to twist around and interwine like some sort of demonic pretzel with no end. If a character dies they can just be brought back through some sort of loophole like an alternate dimensional eclipse. Yes I know you can say the same for anime and manga by bringing up the dragon balls, but the dragon balls remained a constant. In American comics there always seems to be some sort of thing that pulled out of the creators ass to bring back deceased characters.

To further illistrate my point I will create my own parrallel universe in which Naruto was managed by Marvel. First we would have the core naruto series. That's not enough though. We can't post a profit for the final quarter with only one series. There needs to be spin offs involving other characters. So in addition to naruto we also have a side series focusing on Sakura and Ino as they team up to keep the highways of the naruto world safe from villinous bandits and marauders. There's also another spin off following shino where we learn that he's actually an alien from another dimension sent to moniter the naruto world but for what reason? All of the answers are revealed in Naruto xl as we see a younger naruto and watch his trials and tribulations in the ninja academy.

But wait!! Thats not enough. We also need to have Naruto Apocolypse, where all of the what if senarios are explored. What if Orchimaru defeated the Third Hokage and destroyed the Leaf village. What if Tsunande was killed before she could become Hokage. What if Naruto had lost his fight against Neji? From these series will come several alternate universe spin offs where we follow the naruto villains to see what they do after defeating the main characters mentioned before in the what if senarios. Thats not all we also need to have several animated and life action spin offs that throw out all the conventions that have been established before. And then when no one knows what the hell is going on comes the release of Naruto DXLX. A retelling of the classic naruto tale but with new costumes, character interactions. Now Suske loves Sakura but she loves naruto. Oh the drama, oh the suspense, oh the money that is being reaped from the legal prostituition of a beloved intellectual property.

Wed, 01-26-2005, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by: LobsterMagnet
If marvel needs to create an entire new lineup of comic series just to sort out all of the convoluted storylines essentially proves my point. Through various forms of media I am vaguely familiar with most of the major super heros and the dynamics that make them appealing. I just don't think that they've been handled very well.

How would you know? 3rd time: you are babbling about material you have no experience with. none of your opinions are meaningful because you have not read any of the storylines on which you are commenting.

DeathscytheVII

Wed, 01-26-2005, 07:55 PM

you know, one thing i never understood about the Marvel universe was all the anti-mutant sentiment i mean, they are ok with people having all maner of super powers as long as they are from radiation accidents/a vitimin supliment/etc, but not if it's genetic?

I believe the anti-mutant sentiments in X-men were created to reflect the racist views that existed in society at the time that the X-men comics were made.

Deblas

Wed, 01-26-2005, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by: DeathscytheVII

you know, one thing i never understood about the Marvel universe was all the anti-mutant sentiment i mean, they are ok with people having all maner of super powers as long as they are from radiation accidents/a vitimin supliment/etc, but not if it's genetic?

I believe the anti-mutant sentiments in X-men were created to reflect the racist views that existed in society at the time that the X-men comics were made.

Is not that you believe deathscythe vii is that its a fact. The xmen comics were made for that purpose

Wed, 01-26-2005, 09:18 PM

Ok, instead of just insulting lobster I'll do a debunk.

Originally posted by: LobsterMagnet
If marvel needs to create an entire new lineup of comic series just to sort out all of the convoluted storylines essentially proves my point.

They don't need to. However, since (unlike manga), comics properties have shown the trend towards long term success, they will inevitably receive a lot of baggage on their storylines over the years. I repeat: this is inevitable. However, this certainly doesn't prevent Marvel, DC and other publishers from telling good stories with their long running characters. That being said, I am shocked that you get so uppity at the fact that some creators enjoy working with the rich heritage behind a lot of modern-day serialized books, and that some creators want to be able to write them at a more pure, earlier stage? What would you do if you ran Marvel, tell Brian Micheal Bendis to screw off when he proposes the Ultimate line? You'd have been a complete idiot, as the titles are well written, well drawn and wildly successful, and exist as a companion story to the 616 universe, not a replacement.

And, of course, you are only able to critisize superhero books, just like all the other japanophiles in this thread, because they are the closest to something you actually read. None of your criticisms impact non-cape books in any way.

Through various forms of media I am vaguely familiar with most of the major super heros and the dynamics that make them appealing.

Oh, "various forms of media", eh? You know what that means? You don't fucking read comics! And your posts make it really obvious. So, honestly - just stop blathering on ignorantly.

Even the best property can die a quick death in incompetant hands

I know - that is why most of the mainstream supers have existed longer than your parents have. So much for dying a quick death.

American Comics tend to be very unfriendly to outsiders and in some cases they can be down right intimidating.

What a fucking joke. First you critisize Marvel for putting out comics friendly to newcomers (the Ultimate line), then you claim they aren't being friendly enough? Great job! I'm sure you'd do a masterful job of handling their properties. Frankly, there is no industry more insular and nerdy than the Japanese anime industry. With an extremely repetitive and initially off-putting art style common to almost all 80's/90's Shounen manga, Japanese "sound" effects, unweildy translations and lame cultural jokes (which, believe it or not, are not instantly appealing to everyone) abound in manga. You can jump right into the Superman title being run and get up to speed on a character you've only seen in movies in about five minutes. He's fucking Superman: alien who came to earth from Krypton in a space pod. He's married to Lois Lane now, which you may or may not know, but even that doesn't really require a heavy stretch. Just imagine trying to pick up volume 20 of a long running Japanese manga and immediately know what is happening, having not read the series since the first tankouban. It never happens - ever.

What I like about animes and mangas is that they generally follow a linear story progression. There is a beginning and an end.

Manga has a more simplistic, base appeal than most American comics (outside of the Ultimate line, which you bizarrely decry even though it is closest to what you want) don't aspire to. The difference being that American comics offer both long-running series like some superhero comics, and also short, direct stuff (again, you level a criticism that only applies to the part of the industry you are familiar with).

The American comics seem just to twist around and interwine like some sort of demonic pretzel with no end. If a character dies they can just be brought back through some sort of loophole like an alternate dimensional eclipse.

Another criticism that only applies to superhero comics! Oh, what a fucking shock. Your criticism is empty since the Japanese manga and anime industry does the same fucking things over and over. You even go so far as to note that American comics actually think up new ways to do it, while your manga of choice does the same one over and over - and somehow this is better for Dragonball?

stupid shitty anecdote

Ohh, look, you can be sarcastic too. Clearly, you think that American comics recycle and spin-off their characters too much. Gee, I hope you don't watch Gundam - since they've been playing literally the exact same storyline with a new coat of paint for over twenty five fuckin' years. And, of course, your comment only works against a certain segment of superhero books! Hooray for ignoring everything else.

You do not know anything of substance about comics.

Please, just stop commenting on them.

RasenDori

Wed, 01-26-2005, 09:38 PM

*points up*
Fuckin' superslam by Y the Alien

Kagemane_no_Jutsu

Wed, 01-26-2005, 10:27 PM

Yea dude but there's other types of manga too. It's not all action just like you said about american comics. I like comics, especially spiderman (not counting the clone sagai/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif) but manga is just something entirely different. Most comics try to appeal to a different fanbase then manga. So comparing them is pointless. Comics are good in it's own way, manga is good in it's own way.....can't we all just get along?i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

GhostKaGe

Wed, 01-26-2005, 10:38 PM

id have to give manga the top slot though from a personal perspective although i don't mind either. most america comics tend to be episodic rather than serial one story 1 week a totaly new 1 the week after (there are exeptions) where as manga tends to follow on like a soap which is why you can pick up an american comic halfway through a series and have no trouble understanding whats going on like Y The Alien said earlier

as for plot they both tend to over recycle the same plots over and over

as for american comics i personaly am not a fan of superhero comics i find them to 1950's a time when ppl really believed the good guy always wins there too simple there either black or white theres no grey places inbetween

as for manga comics i hate mecha how many comics can you make about giant robots before the whole thing starts to get ridiculous

both comic styles have there +'s & -'s guess its just a case of which appeal to your tastes

bring on SPAWN ok so Todd McFarlane's canadian but hey its better than superman and xmen plent of sex drugs and violence, bad guys tend to win and theres those grey places i was talking about all over the place i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

RasenDori

Wed, 01-26-2005, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by: Kagemane_no_Jutsu
Yea dude but there's other types of manga too. It's not all action just like you said about american comics. I like comics, especially spiderman (not counting the clone saga) but manga is just something entirely different. Most comics try to appeal to a different fanbase then manga. So comparing them is pointless. Comics are good in it's own way, manga is good in it's own way.....can't we all just get along?

finally! the voice of reason. and by the way... everyone hates the clone saga.

Originally posted by: The Next Hokage

bring on SPAWN ok so Todd McFarlane's canadian but hey its better than superman and xmen plent of sex drugs and violence, bad guys tend to win and theres those grey places i was talking about all over the place

x-men is full of grey *points to magneto* is he really that bad of a guy? but for the most part you are right most superhero books dont explore the grey area, but i suggest you read the watchmen as well. the ending presents a very deep question.

basey44

Thu, 01-27-2005, 03:38 AM

i liked the venom and carnage sagas, especially carnage cos venom (my fav spiderman char) actually got to win cos he was fighting on the good guy team. carnage was so cool cos he was just so crazy as a human then he got the symbiote and just went even more nuts, but with powers

Sam98034

Thu, 01-27-2005, 03:54 AM

This reminds me of an argument a while ago when people were trying to argue wheather or not anime's were cartoons.

All the anime buffs were really pissed saying how Anime and Cartoons were *completely* different. The anime buffs were going on saying how cartoons are slapstick crap and how anime was something else deeper and couldn't be compared to cartoons. Then it eventually just became all elitist and racial. Eventually it led to anime being a specific art style from Japan that can only come from a Japanese person. So basically, an American/Candadian/German/etc... could never make an anime.

So yeah...this thread is just kind of elitist. Well atleast the people saying all American comic books are shit are being pretty damn elitist.
Rasendori and Y the A are just trying to say, "Hey, bullshit! American comics can be just as good as any Manga. And I can say the same shit about a lot of mangas too."

There is no *real* argument here.

"Man I never read comics, they suck, mangas are so much better"
"Well actually there's quite a few good ones out there, and some mangas are not that great as well"
"There's no good comics out there, they all suck"
"I thought you never read them, so how would you know?"
"So what if I don't read them, they're from America and are all the same, unlike these Japanese mangas"

This isn't a good argument at all. Anyways even though there's a lot of super heroes in comic books...don't think of them as super heroes...just think of them as "chosen ones" if that helps.

RasenDori

Thu, 01-27-2005, 09:54 AM

exactly... someone else gets the point here

Kn1ves

Thu, 01-27-2005, 12:35 PM

*reads* wtf did u guys do to my thread. hahah

Assertn

Thu, 01-27-2005, 01:57 PM

maybe i should move this to general anime......

http://www.titanstower.com/assets/recroom/toys/TTplate.jpg

ok i was wrong, apparently she modelled as "Wonder Girl"
and she's the one in the top right of that pic

Deblas

Sun, 02-06-2005, 07:22 PM

how old did you say she was when she modeled.

Terracosmo

Sun, 02-06-2005, 09:00 PM

I love how people complain that the characters in american comics have "no life", yet pretty much each and every one of them has more info than a whole cast together does in some japanese comics. And there are soooo many characters.

I dare anyone in here to write a better story than the one Gambit has. Sure, I'm biased, but his biography has exactly everything that one could wish for when it comes to intriguating matters. Oh yeah.

I think Y, Rasen & Sam covered the rest of my thoughts on this pretty well.

Sun, 02-06-2005, 10:26 PM

This thread lost a lot of posts, I think psj and miaka need to some in and start their arguments back up.

z0diac

Mon, 02-07-2005, 05:18 AM

O_o

AfroMain

Mon, 02-07-2005, 05:49 PM

So in addition to naruto we also have a side series focusing on Sakura and Ino as they team up to keep the highways of the naruto world safe from villinous bandits and marauders. There's also another spin off following shino where we learn that he's actually an alien from another dimension sent to moniter the naruto world but for what reason? All of the answers are revealed in Naruto xl as we see a younger naruto and watch his trials and tribulations in the ninja academy.

Holy shit that would be frikkin sweet! How about a dark, adult version of naruto (like "Dark Knight")? It really seems to me that both sides of this "argument" are rather short sighted here. We all know that we loved the spiderman and batman animated series, even if you didn't read the comics. At the same time, we all know that not all anime or DBZ or Love Hina, and that theres plenty of good anime out there (FLCL, Champloo, Bebop, bitches!) If I could afford to buy comics (and I knew where to get em) you bet you ass I would still read american comics (only I'm not really a DC fan, besides Batman). It seems like all the shortcomings mentioned in this post are shared by anime and american comics though....formulaic stories, crazy shit happening, etc. etc. As for all that stuff that LobsterMagnet was talking about, who doesn't love a well made spin-off? Come on, if they made a Naruto series just about Kakashi's past you wouldnt watch it? I will say, though, that Y hasn't really said anything good about anime yet....

Death BOO Z

Mon, 02-07-2005, 06:25 PM

ignoring the rest of your post (you make it sound as if there are no dark animes around... Gantz, maybe?), the fact that Y is in this forum means that he likes anime enough to post in an anime-related forum...

fremeer

Mon, 02-07-2005, 09:47 PM

close this topic cause its gone off topic!!!!!!!!!!

iMUSTbeTHEdevil

Wed, 02-16-2005, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
anything vs teen titans wins....
teen titans suck.....

and i only say that because i dont give any show that tries for an anime-wannabe visual style a second chance

Yeah what he said!

i/expressions/devil.gif

jing

Wed, 02-16-2005, 10:58 PM

By the way has any one notice that whenever lobstermagnet gets proven wrong, he ... never returns? lol, it's like a pattern in all his threads when he gets owned.

LobsterMagnet

Thu, 02-17-2005, 09:36 AM

The reason why I haven't added any more posts here is quite simply because I didn't want to add any more fuel to a pointless arguement. Yesh I thought you would be happy that I wasn't continuing to perpetuate this never ending debate.

Thu, 02-17-2005, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by: jing
By the way has any one notice that whenever lobstermagnet gets proven wrong, he ... never returns? lol, it's like a pattern in all his threads when he gets owned.

nah, this post just died after the rollback deleted some of the heated posts. now it's a wasteland.

LobsterMagnet

Thu, 02-17-2005, 11:56 PM

yep

iMUSTbeTHEdevil

Tue, 10-11-2005, 10:55 PM

Umm. Teen Titans are just kids. They couldnt take Naruto. Honestly think about the matchups.

Sasuke V Robin
Neji V Cyborg
Kiba V Beastboy
Shika V Raven
Sakura V Starfire

Advantage NARUTO!

i/expressions/devil.gif

Strider

Tue, 10-11-2005, 11:20 PM

I liked you for voting for Neji, but why would you seriously ressurect this thread?

Of course, I needed to throw my two cents in. You're too new to have fresh posts all over this section.

iMUSTbeTHEdevil

Tue, 10-11-2005, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by: Strider
I liked you for voting for Neji, but why would you seriously ressurect this thread?

Of course, I needed to throw my two cents in. You're too new to have fresh posts all over this section.

Cant blame a guy for catching up after he has been banned can ya?

i/expressions/devil.gif

Strider

Tue, 10-11-2005, 11:43 PM

.. It was eight months since the last post.

You were banned that long?

/off-topic

Team Gai would ruin the entire Teen Titans crew.

Jadugar

Wed, 10-12-2005, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by: Strider
I liked you for voting for Neji, but why would you seriously ressurect this thread?

Thats not the only thread he revived.

Naruto is more than enough for Teen Titans.

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
http://valethcosmo.free.fr/Forum/omfgkimi.jpg

Strider

Wed, 10-12-2005, 04:08 PM

Never seen that image before, but it had me dying.

If Kimimaro would have said something like that, I'm sure I would have popped a vital blood vessel somewhere.

.. I think he's returned after whoever knows how long, and is catching up on all the threads he's sadly missed.

Not cool.

Terracosmo

Wed, 10-12-2005, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by: Strider
Never seen that image before, but it had me dying.

I made it ^_^

*credits whore*

Jadugar

Wed, 10-12-2005, 06:25 PM

Has anyone of you actually read this shit?

Naruto vs. Teen Titans (http://www.electricferret.com/fights/issue_173.htm)

aznroyale

Wed, 10-12-2005, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by: iMUSTbeTHEdevil
Umm. Teen Titans are just kids. They couldnt take Naruto. Honestly think about the matchups.

Sasuke V Robin
Neji V Cyborg
Kiba V Beastboy
Shika V Raven
Sakura V Starfire

Advantage NARUTO!

man Kiba and beastboy bwhahaha

XanBcoo

Wed, 10-12-2005, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by: Jadugar
Has anyone of you actually read this shit?

Naruto vs. Teen Titans (http://www.electricferret.com/fights/issue_173.htm)

Yeah I bothered to browse through it but got pissed off at some of those people. it's complete crap.

Let's everybody stop posting in this thing and let it rest in peace.

BioAlien

Thu, 10-13-2005, 12:42 AM

ya like thats guy

So the Naruto guys(whoever they are)are screwed.

he don't even know naruto and he say thats they are screwed! don't bother read the whole thing, most of it is just comment from teen titan fan

also like him

I pick the Teen Titans cause their OLD and I'm OLD and I like OLD stuff that is inherently OLD and well established.... and because certain people get really aggrivated when things are OLD.

he only pick teen titan because its old! damn retard

or also thats moron thats compare naruto to dbz?

I am so sick of the Dragonball Z universe or anything relating to the DZ Universe. I mean come on! They are losers! Because I 've read more of their defeats than victories, Like, The Hulk smashed Krillin, Batman bested Freeza, Nimrod destroyed Super Android 17, and both the Juggernaut and Green Lantern caged and defeated Vegeta! So what does this tell me, it tells me the Teen Titans are going to win!

The Heretic Azazel

Thu, 10-13-2005, 09:28 AM

As stated earlier, the Naratu kids are basically just ninjas with energy blasts. The Teen Titans can counter these abilities with general easy.

Starfire alone could take down the whole Naratu team; with her years of experiance mastering several alien martial arts (and a few from earth) she can outclass and out manuvere this small group of upstarts in hand to hand combat. Also, I should mention Starfire has her own brand of powerful energy blasts that could rival a kamehameha

(Yes, I understand DBZ is not affiliated with Naratu. It's just a comparison.) As I was saying, starfire alone could take Naratu on.

The assistance of Superman's clone, a boy trained by the world's greatest detective, an Amazonian, a Cyborg, a shapeshifter, and a boy who can run fater than the speed of light and through time is not necessarily needed, they are really just sweetening the pot.

ololz, some people are crazy.

Strider

Thu, 10-13-2005, 11:27 AM

The site was decent, though. I mean, that contest was dumb, but there were some decent ones.

For other comics nerds, like myself, there was a Dark Phoenix v. Parallax, which would be an amazing battle if it were to ever occur. I was displeased with the outcome, but it was probably the closet poll that site's ever had.

Rock Lee gates open would ruin those kids. Although, the only person I really see proving a problem for the Naruto shinobi is [Kid] Flash / Impulse. All of them, their speed is uncharted. Rock Lee's a turtle, with two gimp legs, compared to them.

Er, yeah. This thread needs to rest in peace now. Shame on ye who revived it.

iMUSTbeTHEdevil

Thu, 10-13-2005, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by: Strider

Er, yeah. This thread needs to rest in peace now. Shame on ye who revived it.

But as you can see, people still have things that they want to say about it. They shouldnt have to let
these issues go unheard. That would be unjust and unfair. And on a personal note, all the Teen Titans
can do is create holograms of themselves where as Naruto can make actually replications. So with the
limited power of the titans, how are they supposed to compete?

i/expressions/devil.gif

Jurojin

Thu, 10-13-2005, 12:51 PM

Here's a small list of seriously powerful reasons as to why Naruto will win

1. Sasuke and Neji are geniuses of their individual clans: Neither has been defeated by other opponents yet in the series (and it's been going for some time now)

2. Both have bloodlines which give them insane advantages: Sasuke has the Sharingan which can paralyze opponents, copy their moves, hypnotize them, or basically snuff out their existence (his older brother did that once with the Sharingan). Neji has the Bakyugan which allows him through see through anything, gives him 360 field of vision and allows him to see and block all points of power in an opponent, rendering them piddling mortals

3. Sasuke has the Chidori which he can use about five times before wiping out and can destroy anything or kill anyone with each use.

4.Sasuke also has the power of the Uchiha clan which is the only clan in the series to never be defeated.

5.Kiba is a master of scent and tracking: no hiding from him

6. Shikamaru may appear worthless, but two minutes into a battle, he can assess all ways to take his oppponent down as easily as possible

7. Shikamaru can control any shadows, so anyone who casts a shadow is in deep shit

8. Naruto has the ability to be a total ass. That itself is his only real weakness (ramen as well) He has never quit a battle ever

9. Naruto can shadow clone himself a thousand times over: 1 Naruto vs. 1000 Narutos-do the math

10. Naruto has the Rasedan, the only move currentluy powerful enough to take out the Chidori

11. Naruto has the two best teachers: Kakashi and that funky perv who is one of the three legendary ninjas. Both are admired as geniuses, if not space cases

12. Rock Lee is faster than any other opponent with weights strapped to his appendages. Without them, you stand no chance against his speed

13. His extreme lotus is so powerful, that it is forbidden-he has used it only twice and nearly killed himself both times.

No chance for the Teen Titans

Half of these are pure crap.

I want those minutes of my life where I read some of this drivel back now kkthnx

Necromas

Thu, 10-13-2005, 08:30 PM

It's pretty simple, considering we could only use KID Naruto characters, they would still win:

So lets set up our Ninja team of 7 to counter the 7 titans, I choose Neji, Naruto, Gaara, Sasuke, Lee, Shikamaru, and Tenten

Robin: This guy is a joke, even Tenten could pwn him.

Superboy: Gaara could restrain him and Sasuke could chidori him.

Kid Flash: Neji's Kaiten would easily pwn this guy, even thought the kaiten doesn't do alot of offensive damage, it would still be enough to badly wound kid flash since he has virtually no ability to take damage beyond a normal person.

Wonder Girl: Rock Lee could definitely beat her in speed, and at least tie in strength, but if he opened a couple of chakra gates and used his lotus she'd be gone.

Beast Boy: Shikamaru shadow binds him and one of the others could easily kill him.

Cyborg: Gaara could easily pwn him

Starfire: Kyuubi could definitely take her on.

All in all, an easy win for the Naruto Team.

Death BOO Z

Mon, 10-17-2005, 07:36 PM

well, considering that i know almost nothing about Teen Titans, I still think they can win.

reason: they have 2 people that can fly and shoot energy blasts, you don't get much better than that, the only ariel stuff that Naruto has is throwing knives, and if other ninjas can dodge it midair without actually being able to change directions in that time, i don't think that people who can create energy barriers are going to have much problem with that.

so here is how it goes. lets take the konoha five from the rescue Sasuke sqaud?
1. robin gets taken out by whoever gets to him first, a non brainer to anyone on the team.
2. beastboy turns into a rhino, choji turns fatass(er) and rolls over him.
3. cyborg tries doing something, shikamaru uses his super intelgence to decide that he shouldn't bother fighting him, and then Naruto rasengans the ironman like he did to the water tank.
4. Starfire flies down to hug robin, somebody gives the bitch the beating of her life.
5. Robin flies up and starts using her powers to kill everyone, she gets a +1 becuase she doesn't need to spend energy to turn the screen black & white, since it allready is.

but for DBZ matches, the only one who can possibiy tickle them is superman, and perhaps some of the outer universe entities, but they don't count, becuase they all suck, even for DC charecters.

The Heretic Azazel

Tue, 10-18-2005, 05:31 PM

If you think the titans would win why do all your points back up Naruto?

Death BOO Z

Tue, 10-18-2005, 06:24 PM

well, it's an objective analysis, made by a person who knows almost nothing about teen titans.
still, Raven can fly and shoot energy blasts (level 6 energy blasts, with level one being a street fighter projectile and level 10 being a kamehameha wave) and is smart enough to stay ariel. the naruto team doesn't have any flying ninja to counter her, nor do they have anyone with shooting skills to take her off the air. the only option they have is doing a FFVII:VA combined attack, which will fail becuase: A. they aren't a good enough team to pull such a stunt. B. Naruto will be the one to make the hit, and he'll probably crash into some pidgeon shit on the way up.

it's like putting the JLA against the X-man. the marvel dudes will kick out everyone's ass, but then superman will come and no one can do scratch to hurt him.

back to the subject, Raven wins the battle, and if you add Terra to the scene, make it a double win, unless you somehow find a sixth ninja whom i've ignored and has the ability to turn the tide of the battle around.