Media Factory Inc.

[stallionslayer]

In case someone hasn't seen this, www.animenation.net/news/index.php (http://www.animenation.net/news/index.php) or www.animesuki.com (http://www.animesuki.com) has published a piece of news about Media Factory's complaint on the fansubbing community of its works...

...so what do you think is gonna happen? i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif Discuss...

I personally feel that the fact that the creator of Genshiken, School Rumble, etc. is complaining makes a huge impact!

[Munsu]

well Solar dropped Genshiken so i guess it affects some (especially those that are "ethical" and dont do licensed anime, even though genshiken is not licensed)

But for the most part it shouldnt affect much

[GuardianShado]

this is gonna hurt a lot of us anime fans. if we're forced to wait years after the series finishes in order to watch the series, we may never look at anime the same way. or we'll jus be stuck with watchin old stuff on cartoonnetwork over n over again...
wuts really the big problem is that most anime doesnt even make it to america. and if 4Kids buys any anime that we haven't seen, we'll never be able to see it for wut its really like since they edit ther DVD releases for that damn 6 yr old crowd. basically, anime is never gonna be the same again. at least not to us cuz we wouldn't hav seen it yet.

[ShinobiNeko]

Well, from what I read, Anime-Kraze is still going to continue to sub Gankutsuou ^^ and because of that WF said they would continue to sub School Rumble ^^, so now Anime-Faith is left. On their channel it says they are deciding what to do and see how they other groups reacts so, hopefully they continue Genshiken.

[Neko Sniper]

heh..Anime-Kraze doesn't even care about continuing licensed Anime series like Chrno Crusade so why should they care at this point? And a big YAY!!! for WF that they're going to continue subbing SR, I love the show! i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

[stallionslayer]

If you read at the Wannabe Fansub forum, I find one of the arguments really interesting and it makes a lot of sense!
Not many of us understand Japanese (me at least) or not many of us are capable of probably watching unsubbed episodes, which is why the fansubs exist. I can understand the whole deal with stopping subbing after ADV or whatever other English company licenses it, because we will then be able to get an English version of the anime and the company is making money off it for the effort they put into it.
If we were to look at Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien, I don't know how many people loved the series...I for one loved it a lot, it touched me! I has not been licensed yet and the chances I think are slim (according to what I read in the AskJohn section of AnimeNation) because of financial issues, since it MIGHT not sell well. The fansubs have managed to spread the popularity of this anime to viewers outside japan and viewers who cannot understand japanese!
I can understand that fansubbers will manipulate the 'creators'' work, but i mean it is our only way of understanding any series we watch. In other words, I agree with the argument I read on wannabe fansubs' forum! The fansubbers of unlicensed series are actually spreading the series that we cannot get ahold of in any other manner and are helping us understand these series. It's like promoting the series out side of Japan! If the series gets licensed then it does make sense for fansubbing to stop because we will have an English translation for the series be it subbed or dubbed! Unfortunately that isn't how some people think sometimes, which makes it difficult to compromise... i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif

Anyway I'm glad that I will still get to see my School Rumble hehe...personally I mean I download the fansubs and if I loved a series, I would go and support it by buying the manga, or the DVDs...I was thinking of even getting a set of japanese DVDs of a certain series for collection purposes, ...many of us might not be able to support it because DVDs aren't really cheap, but I mean everyone does their best to support the anime from Japan in any manner possible!

[ShinobiNeko]

Well, from a-faiths channel topic they said they would continue Genshiken, so seems all the ones effected will still be fansubbed so guess not too much to worry about unless they pressed the fansub groups.

[stallionslayer]

From the news i've just read, Media Factory has sent letters to several more groups I think...no further news yet...

[hikaru004]

What a mess!
And I read that all of this may have been caused by Akane Maniax being released on fansub before on DVD.

[animefreak]

Big mess if you asked me. Damn, this to show that it will have less anime dl in the near future. Does this also affect other anime like Naruto, Prince of tennis, or any other animes not mentioned in the list?

[KameronFrye]

Call it coincidence, but ADV owns the American rights to some series developed by MFI (I think). ADV could possibly have involvement in stopping fansubbing at the source by asking Japanese studios to take a more active role in putting a stop to fansubs, I know there is interest in ADV acquiring School Rumble since it was made by the same mind behind Azumanga, which is one of their bigger current series. They are also undoubtedly working to get the RahXephon OVA as well, since they already have the rights to the series/movie.

This ultimately will not stop fansubbing, as there will always be a group that will keep subbing despite the threats, but there are those that will stop when asked to. If you want to see if there is validity to this, watch and see who starts licensing these series. This may play in with that ADV-Geneon-Funimation merger of collective interest, should all of these series go to them. It makes sense from their angle, since if the fan subbing on these series is cut down more people may (or may not) be inclined to buy a show since it was harder to get a quality online sub of it. Then again, it could be conspiracy theory. But what do these companies stand to gain if they are paid regardless of fansubbing? This community of anime watching doesn't affect them, as they make their primary bank off of commercialization. The overseas licensing is hardly what they make money off of, in comparison to what they make off the networks checks for commercials ran with them or pay-per-view percentages. So then why make this step if this isn't really hurting them to begin with?

[ShinobiNeko]

Originally posted by: animefreak
Big mess if you asked me. Damn, this to show that it will have less anime dl in the near future. Does this also affect other anime like Naruto, Prince of tennis, or any other animes not mentioned in the list?

no, it dosn't effect titles like Naruto, PoT since they not MFI anime

[animefreak]

that's good, at least there are still other animes that aren't affected.

[Ryllharu]

Originally posted by: KameronFrye
Call it coincidence, but ADV owns the American rights to some series developed by MFI (I think). ADV could possibly have involvement in stopping fansubbing at the source by asking Japanese studios to take a more active role in putting a stop to fansubs, I know there is interest in ADV acquiring School Rumble since it was made by the same mind behind Azumanga, which is one of their bigger current series. They are also undoubtedly working to get the RahXephon OVA as well, since they already have the rights to the series/movie.

This ultimately will not stop fansubbing, as there will always be a group that will keep subbing despite the threats, but there are those that will stop when asked to. If you want to see if there is validity to this, watch and see who starts licensing these series. This may play in with that ADV-Geneon-Funimation merger of collective interest, should all of these series go to them. It makes sense from their angle, since if the fan subbing on these series is cut down more people may (or may not) be inclined to buy a show since it was harder to get a quality online sub of it. Then again, it could be conspiracy theory. But what do these companies stand to gain if they are paid regardless of fansubbing? This community of anime watching doesn't affect them, as they make their primary bank off of commercialization. The overseas licensing is hardly what they make money off of, in comparison to what they make off the networks checks for commercials ran with them or pay-per-view percentages. So then why make this step if this isn't really hurting them to begin with?

I would not be suprised at all if ADV laps up most of the series from MFI. However, fansubbing in the past had a different role. Before, fansubbing generally stimutated intrest in a series to the Western audience. This would in turn encourage a company to license it and distribute it legally in America, or other western countries. I know that some fansubbers have left their groups because the environment of fansubbing was shifting from attention gathering to piracy. Why pay for something when you can get old fansubs for free? I know that this attitude has affected me on certain series I do not believe are good enough to purchase but I still want to see.

ADV may in fact BE the masters of this little plan. However, continued use of this (if it is in fact them), will only hurt the licensing industry in America. Licensing companies have their problems. They are incredibly slow. High quality fansubs can be put out in a few days by talented fansub groups, and yet it takes the companies several MONTHS to release a DVD containing as few as 3 episodes. I am aware that some of this may be due to dubbing and whatever else they need to do to promote sales on a limited market form of media, but I really don't want to have to wait to see something that takes 1.5-2 years to see in its entirety. Frankly, I lose intrest. I have 3 or four series where I am missing the last several DVD's. I saw a series on fansub, decided it was worth buying, and as the series slowly was released, I got bored and found something new to watch. Speed isn't the only problem, translation comes to mind most of all. Fansub groups, generally speaking, use fairly literal translations, sometimes even leaving suffixes attached to names and leaving whole words in Japanese accompained by a translational note. Licensing corporations attempt to Americanize phrases, words, and even whole concepts. That doesn't work very well, leading to bad translations and in some cases, altering the concept behind a series as a whole. There simply are not some Western equivalents to much of the Japanese culture, and they should probably be left that way, accompained by notes in the insert of the DVD. I know RahXephon had some of this in the DVD's. But these complaints aren't really the point of this.

Fansubs stimulate intrest in a series. A good majority of the individuals in America who buy DVD's are people who watched the fansubs and want a higher visual quality copy to own. I am one of these, as I have stated before. If licensing companies start to encourage Japanese companies to help them stop fansubbing groups, their already limited market sales will probably suffer. Furthermore, if they continue to give out an inferior quality product in an incredibly slow manner, they will suffer as well.

Of course, if fansubs are not around to compare to, who is to say that the translation is done correctly or not? I can see where this can fall into a conspiracy theory, so I will stop here. My point is, if in fact this is not a single action by MFI but in fact something spurred on by the companies here in America, unless they are completely successful at stopping ALL fansubbing, this will only hurt them in the end.

EDIT: you try writing something this long without having to fix a few typos

[Lefty]

I don't think ADV has though about how this will make the hardcore anime watchers like us fell about their product adn the company, i'd say this will hurt their sales in the long run and cost them money to buy new series. People will still sub series no matter what happens so no one worry this is the great ADV scare all over again. Plus I think Japanese companies relize how much Fansubs help their sales in other contries. If they decide to kill fansubs compleatly I for one will go to Japan my self and document my travels lobbying to production houses and TV corporations and anyone and everyone involved and get them to change their mind before thye hang them selves with their own rope.

[stallionslayer]

I agree with the two of you, Rylharu and Lefty! Japan should have noticed by now that the fansubs are spreading their work worldwide.
The DVDs are something I want to own for a good series and I mean ADV may have glitches in translation, but overall they do a good job in marketing the DVD, take Azumanga Daioh for instance, it comes with a translation booklet, which clears up all the puns and other things as well. The reversible covers I probably just a bonus the quality is really top notch, but it just takes several month intervals for the DVDs to come out, plus they are not exactly cheap. I think were the companies in America to release the DVDs a lot faster and not Americanize them so much to keep the Japanese feel and perhaps make them slightly cheaper, then I think it would attract more people. I know my friend has always been wanting to buy the DVDs...but for one since I live in Asia, it's hard to get the originals so we have to order them through amazon and two, my friend just doesn't have the cash to afford it.
I'm with Rylharu on the DVDs, if I see a series I really like, then I would buy the DVDs! So right now, if I see School Rumble licensed, I would definitely buy the DVDs, I just wouldn't like it if I would only get my first DVD by the end of next year! If the School Rumble manga were licensed as well I would buy the whole set as well! Though I rely a lot on fansubs and many people do I know we all do our best to support the originals be it manga, anime, artwork, DVDs....hope you know what I mean i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

[KameronFrye]

The American market for anime is a little different from Japan. Since this is a heavy focus over there, they make their money off of what gets adverteised on their shows if it isn't pay-per-view, which if it is the studio gets a percentage. Here, it's basically Adult Swim or Tech TV that runs it, and they get a slim figure for the shows they run. Most of their hard bank comes off the actual DVD sales. It sucks that it takes so long to get a dub done for a show, whereas Japanese TV has it done usually a few weeks before the show is actually ran. I think it may have to do with the fact that there is not an extensive variety in anime voice actors, since a lot end up getting recycled into shows. Since one VA make work for 2-3 anime companies at once, it's hard to contract them down to knock out a series all at once. I donno. I'm still kinda drunk as I write this, and I had a really good point to make when I started, but now I forgot.

If ADV has involvment here, I can't say I blame them. I'm sure they'll have the license to School Rumble here in the next couple of months, I think ADV or Geneon are going for the Gankutsuou, that should be around same time as SR gets announced. But it will suck for us if more studios get involved on this. I don't know how the legalities of it would work out in court, since if fansubbing was to be cracked down on, the studios would also have to go after people with personal video recorders as well. Since we're across a sea, it could be empty threats until a series is licensed; which that in itself is still a hollow threat against most, with exception to the people that burn .ogm's of actual licensed releases. I call shenanigans on that, if you enjoy the show so much to get that file you should be doing the right thing and buying the DVD. I lost my train of thought again.