Chuunin matches [Archive] - Gotwoot Forums

Assertn

Wed, 10-20-2004, 12:18 PM

i dunno if you noticed.....but they kinda unofficially concluded the main matches the same way they wouldve officially had it not been for the war

shino still fought kankuro (double KO)
sasuke still fought gaara (and lost)
naruto fought the winner of the sasuke/gaara match, which happened to be gaara (and naruto won)

really, the only match that never happened was temari vs the winner of the naruto/gaara match...but i dont think it wouldve been necessary to show the outcome of THAT match

EDIT: btw, you cant say shino won.....if both him and kankuro lost consciousness as a result of the match.
In fact, kankuro was able to recover on his own later, shino needed the help of his dad.

miaka

Wed, 10-20-2004, 01:20 PM

good point.. assertin... heh.. too bad it wasn't official... i wonder when chuunins are going to be announced

chambers

Wed, 10-20-2004, 01:30 PM

or even if they ever will be, i mean i doubt the series will go to its conclusion with team 7 ect all staying as genin, but it doesnt seem like its going to be announced all to soon!

jing

Wed, 10-20-2004, 01:44 PM

If they fought until the end, i'd say gaara vs naruto. Gaara didn't lose yet. he was transforming.

chambers

Wed, 10-20-2004, 01:54 PM

yeah have to agree, but realistically i dont even know how bloody naruto won at all, i mean i know hes the main character so he cant really lose.......but still, gambunta was exahausted and for all we know that sand racoon was only just gettin started...he certainly murdered gambunta, gaara anihilated sasuke and naruto untill the summon.

kooshi

Wed, 10-20-2004, 01:55 PM

Hmm, I don't think Sasuke would've won since Gaara was already planning on transforming. Afterwards though, Naruto won. With the double KO, Temari would immediately fight against Naruto. Odds are against Temari here.

Still, I guess it depends on what they do on the battlefield for the examiners to consider them Chuunins. It was discussed by those two Chuunin guys that Shikamaru had the best probability of being a Chuunin while Naruto and Neji would stay at the Genin level.

KaneInferno

Wed, 10-20-2004, 01:55 PM

well, i guess technically if there was no war, then yes, shino vs kankuro would have been a double KO. but if they had fought it out, then the attack on konoha happened, then kankuro would still have forfeited. depends on how you want to look at it.

jing

Wed, 10-20-2004, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by: chambers
yeah have to agree, but realistically i dont even know how bloody naruto won at all, i mean i know hes the main character so he cant really lose.......but still, gambunta was exahausted and for all we know that sand racoon was only just gettin started...he certainly murdered gambunta, gaara anihilated sasuke and naruto untill the summon.

Yeah i often wondered that too, but i concluded that it was all the work of Naruto summoning out Gamabunta. so gamabunta did all the work =P.

But i guess we can give naruto credit for being alive. he fought gaara, and hes still alive. that is pretty good for a gennin.

chambers

Wed, 10-20-2004, 02:02 PM

well i suppose but when you consider that gaar's gennin encounter to death ratio is actually 3:2 one of wich was complete fodder and may as well have been the unknown man on a star trek mission, thats how much chance he had to survive it. and dosu..........well i dunno i was let down by that........i liked dosu.

Board of Command

Wed, 10-20-2004, 03:23 PM

It would be hard to decide because Gaara was already transforming in the Sasuke match. Idk what would happen if the fight went on and Gaara completely transformed and went out of control.

jing

Wed, 10-20-2004, 03:50 PM

it depends what out of control to u means.

Board of Command

Wed, 10-20-2004, 03:58 PM

I mean what would happen if he turned into the big shukaku and attack the village as well as the audience? The jounins might have to take him out or something.

kooshi

Wed, 10-20-2004, 05:04 PM

I dunno, but I think that Gaara would have been satisfied enough by killing Sasuke. After that, he would go back to his original form and continue with the main matches. I remember his eyes were quivering when he saw Naruto extract Kyubi's chakra, and that is something you almost never see Gaara do.

miaka

Wed, 10-20-2004, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by: chambers
well i suppose but when you consider that gaar's gennin encounter to death ratio is actually 3:2 one of wich was complete fodder and may as well have been the unknown man on a star trek mission, thats how much chance he had to survive it. and dosu..........well i dunno i was let down by that........i liked dosu.

hmm but remember.. naruto didn't even release his demon.. the kyubi... while gaara did....

wirm

Wed, 10-20-2004, 08:02 PM

Naruto did summon some of the Kyuubi's chakra at the end when he headbutted Gaara.

As for the Gaara vs Sasuke match, it's a pity it ended abruptly. But if the invasion hadn't taken place, I think Sasuke would have won hands down. It is true that Gaara was already transforming, but Sasuke interupted it with chidori.

If you recall, Gaara was barely able to stand when his sand shield collapsed. Kankuro and Temari had to help him out of the stadium and practically carry him away. He said something about consuming too much chakra already and needing time to recover.

A match between Temari and Shino would have been awesome. Temari's fan is a really great defense. Then again, Shino is one tricky little bastard.

Hollow

Wed, 10-20-2004, 08:05 PM

Bugs can't really put up a defence against a GIANT WOULD-BE FLY SWATTER (temari's fan).

KaneInferno

Wed, 10-20-2004, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by: Hollow
Bugs can't really put up a defence against a GIANT WOULD-BE FLY SWATTER (temari's fan).

first of all, shino doesnt send his bugs in frontal attacks. no one ever notices the bugs till its to late. thats his style. what good is her fan if the bugs attack before she sees them?

Assertn

Wed, 10-20-2004, 08:25 PM

the anime gimped it, naruto was supposed to have the kyubi eye just before he summoned gamabunta.

Thunder_Pants

Wed, 10-20-2004, 08:26 PM

Temari wouldn't have fought Naruto, Temari was scared to death of Gaara, do you honestly think she'd step into a fight with anyone that managed to beat Gaara in a fight?

Hollow

Wed, 10-20-2004, 08:28 PM

She was scared of SHUKAKU, not Gaara, per se. Hell, I still have NIGHTMARES about Tanuki...

Shippou-sama

Wed, 10-20-2004, 08:56 PM

The fights went like this:

Naruto vs. Neji -> Naruto (knockout)

Sasuke vs. Gaara -> Sasuke (as pointed out, Gaara needed time to recover)

Shino vs. Kankuro -> Shino (forfeit)

Temari vs. Shikamaru -> Temari (forfeit)

From there it's all conjecture.

Naruto vs. Sasuke -> Sasuke wouldn't be able to use his Chidori without killing Naruto, and he's just used his speed boost, so he's low on stamina. On the grounds of useful techniques (Kagebunshin > Konoha flame), stamina, and willpower, winner: Naruto.

Temari vs. Shino -> Shino would have all the upper hand of knowledge. He's gotten to see Temari in action twice, one of which was a drawn out fight. Temari has only seen him once, in which he essentially stood there. While Temari may be good at thinking on her feet, Shino seems to plan the entire battle out before the first punch is thrown. Winner: Shino.

Shino vs. Naruto -> Honestly, I think this would be one of the greatest fights in the series. On the one hand, Naruto's biggest advantage going into most fights is that his opponent invariably underestimates him. Shino, however, goes all out against anyone. The big challenge would be to see whether Shino has enough bugs to eat all of Naruto and Kyubi-Naruto's chakra. That, and as pointed out, Naruto refuses to stay down. And, he's the main character. Winner: Naruto.

Regardless, though, he'd still be a genin. His willingness to take it to the last breath doesn't exhibit good leadership qualities, since they'd have to worry if he'd sacrifice a team with the same mindset. =P

KaneInferno

Wed, 10-20-2004, 09:11 PM

shippou-sama, i think you bring too much intelligence to this forum. your in depth, well researched answers just pwn.

Raposo_C

Wed, 10-20-2004, 09:20 PM

.... OK ... WOW. Thats interesting. Though I thought Sasuke it would be probably cool to watch Sasuke kill Naruto with chidori (not being sick or evil, just saying it would be soooooooooo cool to watch him barrying that in someone.) Other then that ... damn thats insightfull. Btw, which episode is the Garaa and Sasuke fight? besides the one running around outside in the woods. I mean the one during the exam, I never saw it I think, either that or I totally forgot about it(doubtfull... most likely accidently skipped the episode -> runs to the shadows and hides)

Board of Command

Wed, 10-20-2004, 09:29 PM

Sasuke wouldn't be able to hit Naruto with chidori because Naruto is too good with bunshin and replacement to get hit by a genin. Naruto would find a way to beat Sharingan, and by the time he goes on the offense, Sasuke will be all worn out from using Sharingan to detect the clones.

At the time of the tourney Sasuke might have stood a chance against Naruto, but where we are right now, Sasuke has no chance at all. Naruto's chakra control is far superior and his stamina alone owns Sasuke.

Deblas

Wed, 10-20-2004, 09:30 PM

actually it is being sick and evil wanting to see sasuke killing naruto with the chidori

Hollow

Wed, 10-20-2004, 09:33 PM

Sasuke: Flying fists of TAZER!!
Naruto: WTF?
Sasuke: I'm low on chakra, work with me here.
Naruto: o_o

wirm

Wed, 10-20-2004, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by: BOARD_of_command
Sasuke wouldn't be able to hit Naruto with chidori because Naruto is too good with bunshin and replacement to get hit by a genin. Naruto would find a way to beat Sharingan, and by the time he goes on the offense, Sasuke will be all worn out from using Sharingan to detect the clones.

At the time of the tourney Sasuke might have stood a chance against Naruto, but where we are right now, Sasuke has no chance at all. Naruto's chakra control is far superior and his stamina alone owns Sasuke.

Naruto would get hit plenty. From what I've seen, the real Naruto is almost always the first one to jump in to fight anyway. Also, Naruto very rarely uses the replacement technique. I can only recall him using it once, and he wasn't even fighting real ninjas.

Let's not get into the whole "chidori is useless because Naruto can just dodge it" issue. Can you recall any time in the anime where Naruto actually dodged anything? He always takes the hits, even the ones that should have killed him. He's too slow and clumsy to dodge.

As for using sharingan to detect the clones, Sasuke knows better than that. As was stated with the Neji fight, kage bunshin equally distributes chakra among clones, so even the byakugan cannot tell which is the original. If byakugan can't do it, then sharingan sure as hell can't.

I would be pretty surprised if Sasuke used his sharingan at all against Naruto. He didn't need it until Gaara went into his shell, so he likely wouldn't need it against Naruto.

miaka

Wed, 10-20-2004, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by: Shippou-sama
The fights went like this:

Naruto vs. Neji -> Naruto (knockout)

Sasuke vs. Gaara -> Sasuke (as pointed out, Gaara needed time to recover)

Shino vs. Kankuro -> Shino (forfeit)

Temari vs. Shikamaru -> Temari (forfeit)

From there it's all conjecture.

Naruto vs. Sasuke -> Sasuke wouldn't be able to use his Chidori without killing Naruto, and he's just used his speed boost, so he's low on stamina. On the grounds of useful techniques (Kagebunshin > Konoha flame), stamina, and willpower, winner: Naruto.

Temari vs. Shino -> Shino would have all the upper hand of knowledge. He's gotten to see Temari in action twice, one of which was a drawn out fight. Temari has only seen him once, in which he essentially stood there. While Temari may be good at thinking on her feet, Shino seems to plan the entire battle out before the first punch is thrown. Winner: Shino.

Shino vs. Naruto -> Honestly, I think this would be one of the greatest fights in the series. On the one hand, Naruto's biggest advantage going into most fights is that his opponent invariably underestimates him. Shino, however, goes all out against anyone. The big challenge would be to see whether Shino has enough bugs to eat all of Naruto and Kyubi-Naruto's chakra. That, and as pointed out, Naruto refuses to stay down. And, he's the main character. Winner: Naruto.

Regardless, though, he'd still be a genin. His willingness to take it to the last breath doesn't exhibit good leadership qualities, since they'd have to worry if he'd sacrifice a team with the same mindset. =P

good theory.. but naruto will prob be a chuunin if others do.. cause if he doesn't.. we would have to see another long episodes of chuunin test

Shippou-sama

Thu, 10-21-2004, 01:12 AM

Hmm. Well, after some consideration, I think Sasuke would more than likely use his Sharingan against Naruto. As stated, he wouldn't be able to tell real from false, but he tends to use it more for awareness and reaction speed than anything. As I said, I doubt that Sasuke would be willing to use the Chidori against Naruto in the Chuunin exam. For one, if Naruto dies, then Sasuke is automatically disqualified. For another, Sasuke may not like him, but he certainly doesn't want Naruto dead.I think Sasuke would put up an impressive fight, but it would be a matter of Stamina and willpower, two areas that Naruto excells at.

This is assuming that Naruto doesn't have to draw on Kyubi. If he did, the fight is over instantly with no disputes. =P

Oh yeah, of those who made it to the finals, I think Shino and Shikamaru would be strong candidates for Chuunin. Sasuke is a possibility, but unlikely.

kooshi

Thu, 10-21-2004, 02:25 AM

Originally posted by: Shippou-sama
Hmm. Well, after some consideration, I think Sasuke would more than likely use his Sharingan against Naruto. As stated, he wouldn't be able to tell real from false, but he tends to use it more for awareness and reaction speed than anything. As I said, I doubt that Sasuke would be willing to use the Chidori against Naruto in the Chuunin exam. For one, if Naruto dies, then Sasuke is automatically disqualified. For another, Sasuke may not like him, but he certainly doesn't want Naruto dead.I think Sasuke would put up an impressive fight, but it would be a matter of Stamina and willpower, two areas that Naruto excells at.

Question: why would Sasuke be disqualified for killing Naruto? Rules state that there are no rules, so killing counts.

Assertn

Thu, 10-21-2004, 02:42 AM

Originally posted by: KaneInferno
shippou-sama, i think you bring too much intelligence to this forum. your in depth, well researched answers just pwn.
except for the fact that if shippou's speaking in a hypothetical sense in reference to the main matches taking place with no war to interrupt it, then he is forgetting that kankuro would never have forfeited his match. Forfeiting the match was directly due to the plans for their surprise attack, and therefore to view the unnoficial matchup between kankuro and shino in the woods as the actual "no holds barred" battle between the two, then the result would be

shino vs kankuro -> neither (double KO)

of course, the loss of shino in this match complicates all of shippou's conjectures i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Originally posted by: miaka
good theory.. but naruto will prob be a chuunin if others do.. cause if he doesn't.. we would have to see another long episodes of chuunin test
thats what i wouldve thought too....but then when sakura lost in the prelims....well it sorta complicated matters

Munsu

Thu, 10-21-2004, 02:48 AM

it woul be cool if after an arc finishes they jump a year or so and then just be in the final tournament

Kale Ironfist

Thu, 10-21-2004, 03:14 AM

Originally posted by: wirm

Originally posted by: BOARD_of_command
Sasuke wouldn't be able to hit Naruto with chidori because Naruto is too good with bunshin and replacement to get hit by a genin. Naruto would find a way to beat Sharingan, and by the time he goes on the offense, Sasuke will be all worn out from using Sharingan to detect the clones.

At the time of the tourney Sasuke might have stood a chance against Naruto, but where we are right now, Sasuke has no chance at all. Naruto's chakra control is far superior and his stamina alone owns Sasuke.

Naruto would get hit plenty. From what I've seen, the real Naruto is almost always the first one to jump in to fight anyway. Also, Naruto very rarely uses the replacement technique. I can only recall him using it once, and he wasn't even fighting real ninjas.

Let's not get into the whole "chidori is useless because Naruto can just dodge it" issue. Can you recall any time in the anime where Naruto actually dodged anything? He always takes the hits, even the ones that should have killed him. He's too slow and clumsy to dodge.

As for using sharingan to detect the clones, Sasuke knows better than that. As was stated with the Neji fight, kage bunshin equally distributes chakra among clones, so even the byakugan cannot tell which is the original. If byakugan can't do it, then sharingan sure as hell can't.

I would be pretty surprised if Sasuke used his sharingan at all against Naruto. He didn't need it until Gaara went into his shell, so he likely wouldn't need it against Naruto.

Originally posted by: Shippou-sama
Hmm. Well, after some consideration, I think Sasuke would more than likely use his Sharingan against Naruto. As stated, he wouldn't be able to tell real from false, but he tends to use it more for awareness and reaction speed than anything. As I said, I doubt that Sasuke would be willing to use the Chidori against Naruto in the Chuunin exam. For one, if Naruto dies, then Sasuke is automatically disqualified. For another, Sasuke may not like him, but he certainly doesn't want Naruto dead.I think Sasuke would put up an impressive fight, but it would be a matter of Stamina and willpower, two areas that Naruto excells at.

This is assuming that Naruto doesn't have to draw on Kyubi. If he did, the fight is over instantly with no disputes. =P

Oh yeah, of those who made it to the finals, I think Shino and Shikamaru would be strong candidates for Chuunin. Sasuke is a possibility, but unlikely.

WTF are you guys on about? it's already been a given that the sharingan can detect which of them is real, because it doesnt check how much chakra is inside the body, but whether the body is made of chakra or not. Consider the second exam, where the hidden rain ninjas used clones, and the sharingan could see they were fake bodies. also consider the itachi and kisame vs kurenai, asuma and kakashi fight. kakashis sharingan could tell which of the two itachis were fake (and im quite sure it was a kagebunshin).

miaka

Thu, 10-21-2004, 03:37 AM

hmm even they never said anything yet.... . even byakugan couldn't tell which was real him.. and it is supposed to be advanced version of sharingon... so i think sasuke won't be able to tell which one is naruto

kage bunshin is different than regualr bushin btw

Munsu

Thu, 10-21-2004, 03:53 AM

well one thing is to have a clone that is a fake and another thing is to do what Naruto does... if not mistaken he multiplies and divides his chakra among all the bodies... so in a sense they are all real... I could be wrong though

Kaka

Thu, 10-21-2004, 03:58 AM

i think we probably will findout who becomes a chuunin the process has been slowed down though cos of filler episodes.

wirm

Thu, 10-21-2004, 01:14 PM

there is a very good reason why kage bunshin is considered jounin-level while normal bunshins are required of (almost) every academy graduate.

Kage bunshin creates real bodies, each of them equal. It also requires an ungodly amount of chakra to use it to its full potential. Even the 3rd Hokage was hesitant to use it until the very end.

And as miaka (and Kakashi) said, byakugan surpasses sharingan in insight. If byakugan can't tell which is real, you can bet your bottom dollar that sharingan can't either.

The reason Sasuke used his sharingan to detect the rain ninja clones was because they were not kage bunshin, but illusion clones. Those are not real bodies, but just illusion with no substance.

I agree that Sasuke would not be eager to kill Naruto with chidori, but since Oro keeps harping on how Sasuke will do anything to kill his brother (avenger, and whatnot), he can get over it. Though truth be told, I don't think chidori is necessary when he can run circles around Naruto and just beat him down the way Rock Lee beat him earlier. I don't remember which episode it was, but I do remember that it was a 1-hit KO.

As for using the sharingan against Naruto, that's debateable. I don't think it would be necessary, because Sasuke's already so much faster. Then again, you never know.

If Naruto busted out Kyuubi, then yes, I think he'd win. But it would still be a cool fight. Remember, with Kyuubi's chakra, he was still just even with Neji. In fact, he almost lost, and had to win through trickery.

I'm guessing that Sasuke is faster than Neji, so it would be interesting to see.

Shippou-sama

Thu, 10-21-2004, 01:34 PM

Assertn: I was actually referring to "What if the war hadn't interrupted the fight?" rather than "What if they hadn't gone to war?" If they hadn't gone to war, then Kankuro, Gaara, and Temari would likely have been Chuunin already, as there would have been no reason to wait a year. Orochimaru would never have been involved, meaning the only real competitors would be the 9 rookies, the 3 older konoha, and the hidden rain guys. In that case, we have to question who would even make it to the final 10. Since it's impossible to tell who would be matched with who, then you can't really continue.

However, if you want to be technical, you can't view the wilderness match as the "official" match either. Had Shikamaru faced Temari in the wilderness, he would have won easily, so you have to consider a match between Shino and Kankuro in the actual arena.

This is a fair bit harder, frankly. There are two basic directions it could go. Either 1) they both hide in the trees and try to out-sneak attack each other, in which case Shino would more than likely win (advantage of bug scouts), or 2) they both decide for an open battle. Since neither of them seem terribly prone to such a rash plan as running after an enemy in hiding, I feel comfortable ignoring the chance that one of them would hide and the other would search.

Since there isn't much to discuss about 1, the real question comes into option 2.

In an open battlefield, it's much harder for kankuro to avoid the bugs. Since Shino wouldn't have to find him, he could ignore the step of placing a female on him. However, Shino would also have to deal with the puppet more directly, but would have less to worry about from the poison gas (much easier to avoid in an open area). While I can admit this would be an equally interesting bout, it's difficult to say exactly who would win. IF I had to name a winner, I would say probably Shino. He's a capable fighter, thinks ahead, and is difficult to read.

As for the other comments:
Sharingan:
1) Sasuke does not have fully developed Sharingan, and since they have not told us directly, then we don't know the exact limitations of them.
2) We do not know for sure if the Sharingan can tell the difference between Kage Bunshin and normal people, but they have never told us that it can.
3) Kage Bunshin creates real bodies.
Based on these, I would say that Sasuke probably cannot tell the difference, but might.

Naruto vs. Sasuke -> I'm sorry, I was wrong, you can kill your opponent. It seems odd, but regardless, it makes no difference. Sasuke would not be willing to kill Naruto at that point in the series. The rules change nothing, sorry. Also, whether Sasuke can tell the difference or not doesn't make much difference either. He will still have to deal with them, and unlike Neji, he doesn't have a solid defense.

*EDIT* @ wirm: Sasuke can't use that speed often or for long. Even if he did use it, it would not win the fight. Sasuke was able to land many hits on Gaara (presumably without the sand armor), and even Gaara was able to withstand it. Knowing Naruto's capacity for punishment, I would consider it a safe assumption that Sasuke would not in fact be able to win purely in the time he would have that speed. After that, as I've mentioned their fairly equal. And no, he would not be willing to kill him. He's not in his crazy/depressed/rage phase yet. After the Naruto/Gaara fight in the woods, maybe, but only maybe.

wirm

Thu, 10-21-2004, 02:35 PM

Sasuke doesn't need to use the speed for very long.

As I said in the Naruto vs Rock Lee fight, that match lasted about 2 seconds before Lee used his Konoha Senpuu and knocked Naruto out. And he was still wearing his weights when he did that.

Regardless of whether or not Sasuke would try to kill Naruto, at that point, I don't think Naruto would have won. Sasuke doesn't need a solid defense if his offense is that far out of Naruto's league.

Every fight that Naruto has won is because his opponent was not willing to kill him quickly.

His fight with Haku would have ended very quickly indeed if Haku just threw a needle at Naruto's heart or head.

His fight with Neji would have ended pretty quickly if Neji just tried to kill him instead of humiliating him by disabling his tenketsu. Remember, a blow to the heart with jyuuken is lethal regardless of how tough Naruto is. We already know that Naruto's heart is vulnerable (from the Kabuto fight).

His fight with Gaara would have ended quickly if Gaara wasn't just playing around with his sand shurikens.

His fights with Tsunade don't bear talking about.

His fight with Kabuto would have ended quickly if Kabuto just pulled out the knife in the very beginning, or hadn't been trying to convince him to run away.

Shippou-sama

Thu, 10-21-2004, 02:48 PM

And Sasuke wouldn't be willing to kill him either. Do you not pay attention when the show is on? They're rivals, not enemies.

Regardless, as I said, because of the fact that Sasuke-Gaara was delayed the way it was, he would have been forced to go straight from the Gaara fight to fighting Naruto. He wouldn't have rested, and would not have enough speed. The only reason Naruto went down to Lee that fast was because he was caught by surprise, and because Lee did use the Senpuu. Sasuke doesn't have any taijutsu specials, and wouldn't be that far out of Naruto's league. Also, Naruto wasn't using any replications against Lee, and he was massively weaker then. He spent a full month training with a Sannin since then. I'm quite sure he wouldn't go down as easy.

"Every fight that Naruto has won is because his opponent was not willing to kill him quickly."

Hence, Naruto wins. =P

jing

Thu, 10-21-2004, 05:50 PM

Didn't he own the kagari crew in chunnin exam? POW , down goes all 3 nins at the same time.

Mut

Thu, 10-21-2004, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by: Shippou-sama
Sasuke doesn't have any taijutsu specials, and wouldn't be that far out of Naruto's league.
wrong. sasuke has the lion combo he used on that chakra sucker.

Kagemane_no_Jutsu

Thu, 10-21-2004, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@

Originally posted by: Shippou-sama
Sasuke doesn't have any taijutsu specials, and wouldn't be that far out of Naruto's league.
wrong. sasuke has the lion combo he used on that chakra sucker.

Well Naruto has the Naruto Comboi/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Shippou-sama

Thu, 10-21-2004, 06:54 PM

That's not really a special. I would consider that a combo, hence the name of it.

A taijutsu special is something like the kaiten, the Lotus, or the Konoha Senpuu. A special move that involves the use of chakra. Lion combo is just a series of attacks (though powerful). And, as noted, Naruto also has one, so they are still equal. =P

wirm

Thu, 10-21-2004, 06:56 PM

It isn't necessary to kill someone to beat them. If Naruto's enemies had focused on knocking him out or just disabling him (like Kisame was going to do), they should have had a pretty easy time with that too. Well, with the exception of Neji.

Also, we don't know just how tired out Sasuke was from his fight with Gaara. He looked eager to continue it when the 3 sand genins ran. He must have had plenty of stamina and chakra left to fight with.

Do you not pay attention when the show is on? i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Shippou-sama

Thu, 10-21-2004, 07:02 PM

Indeed I do pay attention. Attention enough to know that he wasn't able to draw upon that speed in the entire chase with Gaara. Otherwise, how did it take so long to catch him? And how were Naruto, Sakura, and Pakkun able to keep pace with him?

The point is, Naruto was not nearly as weak in comparison to Sasuke as he once was. Frankly, they've always been closer than most of the characters thought they were, but at that point, they would be on level ground.

miaka

Thu, 10-21-2004, 07:33 PM

hmm.. sasuke has being growing cause of his rivalry with naruto and wanting to protect him.. (HAKU incidnet.. got sharingon..)... but kinda drawing back now.. due to his hatred toward itachi... and losing control...

where naruto is strong willed and determined as ever to be recognized and protect people..i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif not to mention that naruto is the main character... so if they fought at all... naruto will win..

wirm

Thu, 10-21-2004, 08:05 PM

Just because it took a while to catch them doesn't mean that he couldn't draw on his speed. There are any number of reasons that would account for the delay.

Traps set to stop him and taking time to track them as opposed to running all out are only 2 possibilities.

It is also possible that he was conserving stamina for the inevitable fight against 3 dangerous enemies. Sasuke is an intelligent ninja, and doesn't waste his resources. Why bother burning off stamina in a chase when you know you're bound to catch up anyway?

Naruto, Shika, and Sakura were able to keep pace because they had a tracker with them. It is also debatable whether or not they actually "kept pace". Considering the head start that the sand ninjas and Sasuke had, and the time it took before the cavalry arrived, we can't draw any accurate conclusion about whether or not the trackers managed to keep up.

What we do know is that Shino is freakin' fast i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

In any case, it seems that Naruto and Sasuke are very nearly on even ground at the moment.

Shippou-sama

Thu, 10-21-2004, 08:19 PM

If Sasuke was capable of using the speed, why didn't he use it when he caught up with Gaara? Because he was out. Lee mentioned that he wouldn't be able to use that speed very long at all.

At this point, however, it's two fanboys arguing. You clearly support Sasuke, and believe he would win. Cool, good job, etc. I clearly support Naruto. Cool, good job, etc. I think we can stop spamming about what would or wouldn't happen, since we both know there's no way to prove it. Even if they fought in the anime now, they'd be at completely different levels, since Sasuke has been incapacitated all this time, and Naruto has been training with Jiraiya.

If you think Sasuke would win, you're allowed to. If I think Naruto would win, I'm allowed to. I will never convince you that Naruto would win, and you'll never convince me that Sasuke could win. You can't seem to see my point of view, and I can't seem to see your point of view.

What I keep trying to say, but am too long-winded to say briefly, is let's just agree to disagree, okay?

@ Deblas: Huh? How so?

wirm

Thu, 10-21-2004, 09:00 PM

No problem.

I actually prefer Naruto overall anyway

Deblas

Thu, 10-21-2004, 09:27 PM

your're an inspiration to us all Shippou-sama

miaka

Thu, 10-21-2004, 09:35 PM

lol.. we just have to wait and see how much they will grow later on.. (how strong they will get

Deblas

Fri, 10-22-2004, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by: Shippou-sama
If Sasuke was capable of using the speed, why didn't he use it when he caught up with Gaara? Because he was out. Lee mentioned that he wouldn't be able to use that speed very long at all.

At this point, however, it's two fanboys arguing. You clearly support Sasuke, and believe he would win. Cool, good <A TITLE="Click for more information about job" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||job|AA1VDw">job</A>, (http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||job|AA1VDw) etc. I clearly support Naruto. Cool, good job, etc. I think we can stop spamming about what would or wouldn't happen, since we both know there's no way to prove it. Even if they fought in the <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=anime&v=56">anime</a> (http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=anime&v=56) now, they'd be at completely different levels, since Sasuke has been incapacitated all this <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=time&v=56">time</a>, (http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=time&v=56) and Naruto has been <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=training&v=56">training</a> (http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=training&v=56) with Jiraiya.

If you think Sasuke would win, you're allowed to. If I think Naruto would win, I'm allowed to. I will never convince you that Naruto would win, and you'll never convince me that Sasuke could win. You can't seem to see my point of view, and I can't seem to see your point of view.

What I keep trying to say, but am too long-winded to say briefly, is let's just agree to disagree, okay?

@ Deblas: Huh? How so?

well i guess its because you write a lot. don't worry im not flaming youi/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

KaneInferno

Fri, 10-22-2004, 08:47 PM

whats with all the links in that quote?

Shippou-sama

Fri, 10-22-2004, 10:10 PM

Oh, cool. Umm, thanks, I guess. ^_^;;

Deblas

Sat, 10-23-2004, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by: KaneInferno
whats with all the links in that quote?

I don't know. It happens sometimes when I quote somebody though

CapsuleCorpJX

Sun, 10-24-2004, 08:19 PM

So Naruto kind of won that tournament eh?

Cool.

And for my money, Naruto deserves to be a Chunnin given the circumstances of the test.
One on one really does not give you many opportunities to use strategy or your qualities as a team leader.
Plus Naruto used really clever tactics in EVERY one of his fights.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
i dunno if you noticed.....but they kinda unofficially concluded the main matches the same way they wouldve officially had it not been for the war

shino still fought kankuro (double KO)
sasuke still fought gaara (and lost)
naruto fought the winner of the sasuke/gaara match, which happened to be gaara (and naruto won)

really, the only match that never happened was temari vs the winner of the naruto/gaara match...but i dont think it wouldve been necessary to show the outcome of THAT match

EDIT: btw, you cant say shino won.....if both him and kankuro lost consciousness as a result of the match.
In fact, kankuro was able to recover on his own later, shino needed the help of his dad.

Shippou-sama

Sun, 10-24-2004, 10:02 PM

The reason Naruto won't be a Chuunin based on these exams is because he was willing to win at any cost, which, by extension, can include the lives of those under his command. Since Chuunin will have to make decisions like that, you have to be willing to place the lives of your team over that of simple victory.

kooshi

Mon, 10-25-2004, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by: wirm
Just because it took a while to catch them doesn't mean that he couldn't draw on his speed. There are any number of reasons that would account for the delay.

Traps set to stop him and taking time to track them as opposed to running all out are only 2 possibilities.

It is also possible that he was conserving stamina for the inevitable fight against 3 dangerous enemies. Sasuke is an intelligent ninja, and doesn't waste his resources. Why bother burning off stamina in a chase when you know you're bound to catch up anyway?

Naruto, Shika, and Sakura were able to keep pace because they had a tracker with them. It is also debatable whether or not they actually "kept pace". Considering the head start that the sand ninjas and Sasuke had, and the time it took before the cavalry arrived, we can't draw any accurate conclusion about whether or not the trackers managed to keep up.

What we do know is that Shino is freakin' fast

The only reason why Shino caught up with Sasuke quickly was because he left the arena much sooner than Naruto's squad, not to mention the fact that he didn't have his fight, making him more "fresh" for tracking and fighting.
Also on the whole Sasuke-chasing-Gaara thing, I agree how Sasuke lost some stamina and chakra in the arena fight. From that, I think that's why he didn't use his high speed to try to catch up. Also, he's probably used to the pace as if he was going with Naruto and Sakura since they've been training together for a while now. But then again, I could be wrong.

wirm

Mon, 10-25-2004, 01:17 PM

I haven't seen ep 68 in a while, but didn't Shino leave AFTER Naruto, Sakura, and Shika left?

My memory's a bit hazy, but even if he left before they did, it wasn't that long before and he got there much sooner.

Shippou-sama

Mon, 10-25-2004, 02:31 PM

IIRC, Shino left immediately after Naruto, but he was able to take a direct path, and didn't have to worry about stopping the 8 chasing ninja.

As for the speed issue, I think he just didn't have it. The reason I say this is 1) Yes he could be saving it up for when he catches up . . . but then why didn't he even TRY to use it? 2) Why would he be used to a pace of 2 people he hasn't seen in just over a month? 0.o

kooshi

Mon, 10-25-2004, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by: Shippou-sama
IIRC, Shino left immediately after Naruto, but he was able to take a direct path, and didn't have to worry about stopping the 8 chasing ninja.

As for the speed issue, I think he just didn't have it. The reason I say this is 1) Yes he could be saving it up for when he catches up . . . but then why didn't he even TRY to use it? 2) Why would he be used to a pace of 2 people he hasn't seen in just over a month? 0.o

Hmmm, guess that 8 Sound ninja squad would have slowed down Naruto's squad quite a bit. Alright, I guess that's a good enough reason.
With the whole speed thing compared to Sasuke's team, I was just thinking out loud of possible ideas. Heh, I don't blame ya for saying that though. Well, I can only imagine that he was a little tired, considering how Sasuke used a lot of stamina for the high-speed, used a massive amount of chakra for Chidori, and jumping that freaking high wall of the arena with one jump (LOL).

wirm

Mon, 10-25-2004, 03:47 PM

Let's not get into a debate again, but just in response to your 2 points.

We don't know if Sasuke was trying to use the speed or not. We do know that unlike Naruto or Shino, he had no cheap way of tracking the sand nins (no pug or bug), and had to do it by sight. Moving too fast while tracking is a sure-fire way of losing the trail.

As for being used to the pace of his partners, I'm guessing that's not it.

kooshi

Mon, 10-25-2004, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by: wirm
Let's not get into a debate again, but just in response to your 2 points.

We don't know if Sasuke was trying to use the speed or not. We do know that unlike Naruto or Shino, he had no cheap way of tracking the sand nins (no pug or bug), and had to do it by sight. Moving too fast while tracking is a sure-fire way of losing the trail.

As for being used to the pace of his partners, I'm guessing that's not it.

Heh, same here, I don't want any debate. I was just expressing any possible ideas that first came to my head, hehe.
I do like your point about Sasuke's chasing abilities better than mine, so I'll accept that.
The pace of the partners, well, like I said, I was thinking out loud, so chances were not on my side, lol. Besides, I think I admitted that in my last post.

drcitan

Wed, 10-27-2004, 11:24 PM

The whole stadium would have reduced to rumble ending with a D.K.O between naruto and gaara.

Shippou-sama

Thu, 10-28-2004, 01:08 AM

Except Sasuke beat Gaara already. He was injured and could barely stand, which means the round would have been over. =\

Aramis

Fri, 10-29-2004, 05:55 AM

Sasuke can kill Naruto, just aim a chidori in the heart.
For him to be able to do that though...his mind will have to be taken over by the cursed seal.
The sharingan won't be deceived by clones...and with his speed he can definately hit.

kooshi

Fri, 10-29-2004, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by: Aramis
Sasuke can kill Naruto, just aim a chidori in the heart.
For him to be able to do that though...his mind will have to be taken over by the cursed seal.
The sharingan won't be deceived by clones...and with his speed he can definately hit.

We don't know if the Sharingan can detect the difference between shadow replications and the user. It is definite that the Byakugan cannon differentiate, but for the Sharingan, it's unknown. That is, unless I missed something in the anime, which I doubt. If so, say so here.

Shippou-sama

Fri, 10-29-2004, 03:27 PM

I agree with Kooshi's statement about the Sharingan. Also, at that point in the anime (before the Naruto/Gaara fight), Sasuke would have no reason to even try to kill Naruto.

Shi_No_Shikaku

Sat, 10-30-2004, 12:55 AM

[quote]
Originally posted by: Kaka
Naruto vs Neji - Naruto (it happened and Naruto won)
Gaara vs Sasuke - Sasuke (Sasuke had him beat with the Chidori)
Kankorou vs Shin - Shin (defeats him Later on)
Temari vs Shikamaru - Temari (cos Shikamaru gives up)

Naruto vs Sasuke - Naruto (if u can beat Neji, u can beat sasuke)
Shin vs Temari - Shin (those damn bugs)

Shin vs Naruto - Naruto (i say Naruto but Shin seems prety good from what we have seen)

What do u think would of happened, give your opinion and whyQ]

Ok really I'm I the only one that saw He put SHIN 6 time IT'S SHINO with the O O O O O O O

Shippou-sama

Sat, 10-30-2004, 10:38 PM

Maybe his keyboard doesn't register the "O" key directly after the "N" key? Or he just didn't know. But yeah, I noticed, I just didn't care. =P

CUE

Sun, 10-31-2004, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by: kooshi

Originally posted by: Aramis
Sasuke can kill Naruto, just aim a chidori in the heart.
For him to be able to do that though...his mind will have to be taken over by the cursed seal.
The sharingan won't be deceived by clones...and with his speed he can definately hit.

We don't know if the Sharingan can detect the difference between shadow replications and the user. It is definite that the Byakugan cannon differentiate, but for the Sharingan, it's unknown. That is, unless I missed something in the anime, which I doubt. If so, say so here.

I don't think the Sharingan can.

I mean... it can't tell the difference between water-clones, as was shown in the kakashi fight. And Itachi couldn't tell Kakashi's shadow clones apart. So I doubt Sasuke's could.

KaneInferno

Sun, 11-07-2004, 12:50 AM

You know i think the only reason shino didn't become a chounin is because he wasn't able to fight in front of all the fuedal lords and judges. I think he's probably good enough to be one but got jipped.

DarthEnderX

Sun, 11-07-2004, 03:37 AM

I concur. Shino should be a Chuunin, because Kiba's team needs rational leadership. And Shino is just the man for the job.

Seriously though, I think Sasuke beat Gaara, that much we've pretty much seen. Sure Gaara was stronger overall, but he was caught off guard and already out during the match.

We already know Shino would have drawn against Kankuro. Even if you consider Shino the "winner" by a few seconds, he's too poisoned to fight again so he would have to forfeit the next round. So Temari would have advanced unopposed.

Sasuke vs. Naruto, well, at the time, I think Naruto would have won via giant frog. Sasuke was completely unprepared for that. And the Mass Kage Bunshin.

Final round, Naruto vs. Temari, I think this is just a no-contest.

So, winner: Naruto.

Shippou-sama

Sat, 11-13-2004, 12:55 AM

Naruto can't call the giant frog whenever he wants. We've repeatedly seen that he has to be in a massively grave situation for it to work. Also, I highly doubt he would even try to use it against Sasuke, since he wants to prove that he's better than Sasuke by his own strength, not Kyubi's (although he'd probably use that), and not Gamabunta's.

And once again, there are two problems with the assumption of Shino vs. Kankuro = draw. 1) Different terrain. 2) Shino had already won by forfeit. We're assuming that the war happens after the tournament, not that the war never happened. If we assume there would be no war, then the sand team would have gone the year before, the sound wouldn't be there at all, and we'd have no way of guessing who would place in the top 10, much less who would win the tournament.