inane 230 out

[oscar]

this wasn an interesting chapter i think kishimoto is finally drivin us toward finding out the relationship between naruto and the yondaime.

[Kumiriko]

It was pritty cool. Much more info then in the Raw but the main point was driven across.

[piasEnigma]

(reguarding the first post.)

yeah now that kyubi thinks the two are similar, things may prove to be very interesting.

Edit: Omfg, why would kyubi think that the Fourth and Naruto are alike, i mean.. how the hell does the nine tailed fox "know" the fourth.. sweet jesus, i wonder if this is a translation mistake or something much much bigger

[Souryusen]

I'm hoping Naruto's first punch shatters Sasuke's hitai-ate. That oughtta wipe that smirk off his face.

[Naruto_-_Kun]

Yes much was revealed, this arc is serving as a major turning point for the story. As many people have said it seems as though naruto is going curse seal level 2 (ssj2) lol. anywho i only saw 1 tail so maybe as he gets more and more chakra he gains more tails or something. and sasuke has yet to release his 2 levels of curse seal. Also thinking bout to seeing gaara fight it seems now that naruto could prolli beat gaara again as could sasuke. All in all sweet episode

[piasEnigma]

Please dont compare naruto to that dragon ball garbage.
btw read my first post, i kinda had a revelation, hehe.

[Hotsuma]

How can you not compare it to DBZ, when all you've been seeing lately IS DBZ-like elements? Power ups, lack of any real technique, trashy Taijutsu fighting, lack of cool ninjutsu, and above all changing forms to accompany your "newly" aquired powers? I bet anybody who likes gimmicks *cough*Kyuubi*cough* denies the fact that Naruto and DBZ are blindingly similar, while people who have some depth accept, and wish for MORE.

[primalspas]

Originally posted by: piasEnigma
(reguarding the first post.)

yeah now that kyubi thinks the two are similar, things may prove to be very interesting.

Edit: Omfg, why would kyubi think that the Fourth and Naruto are alike, i mean.. how the hell does the nine tailed fox "know" the fourth.. sweet jesus, i wonder if this is a translation mistake or something much much bigger


well if the kyuubi knew something about the fourth it would make sense because remember when the third said that the sealer than the target fight in the belly of death forever? Maybe the kyuubi and the fourth somehow are still tangled together and the fourth and the kyuubi know each other , or maybe some of the other theories that have been thrown around about the kyuubi being naruto's mother are true.

[Hotsuma]

I don't know why, but has it ever occured to people here that Kyuubi isn't as invincible as people make it out to be? What I mean to say is, maybe Kyuubi is a double edged, sword. And by tapping into his power, Naruto ultimately loses a part of himself in the process. I dislike the idea of having an invincible trump card for Naruto, mainly cause he's such a clever fighter, and will use trickery to win, instead of brute force.

[Souryusen]

I wouldn't be surprised if Kyuubi was a double edged sword. The way Naruto has to draw upon it with more and more frequency and the fact that he's having to draw more than ever... there must be some kinda side effect.
There were some scenes a few chapters ago where Kyuubi was manifesting itself despite the fact that the situation didn't seem particularly dire.. perhaps Kyuubi is attempting to get a stronger foothold in Naruto's psyche?

If he has to give of himself to use Kyuubi.. it might be a good incentive for him to train harder... to avoid drawing on that power at all costs. Hopefully this excessive kyuubi-usage is to further Naruto's character and not Kishimoto running out of ideas.

[Eurasian]

but the kyubi's chakra and naruto's intertwine, so as time passes it'll be easier for naruto to draw it out. i don't know, but naruto is just awesome going kyubi. damn, that last page!! oh man, i hope he beats the crap outta sasuke. i was expecting that in this chp but it didn't happen. as for kyubi saying that naruto and yondaime r alike, uhm...well...i don't know. a speculation - he met him when they were battling. who knows.

[Uchiha Barles]

Alright Hotsuma, here's my response to what you've been saying in both this and the raw thread. You say all this powering up and usage of alternate power sources is very dbz-like, and you don't like it. You also you say you'd rather see inventive and cleaver fighting as has been the staple of the series from the get go. Well, let me ask you this: how clever and inventive can you possibly get by staying at the same power level? Ingeniuty can only take you so far if you don't become stronger. Naruto would never have beaten gaara if it wasn't for the summoning technique he learned, regardless of his cleverness. Same thing if he's put up against someone like a jounin, ingeniuty won't be enough for Naruto to succeed at this level. So "powering up" is a necessity. The extra power when coupled with ingeniuty (how many times have I said this word already?) will make for far more interesting fights then we've gotten to see so far.

You might argue that this rate of power acquisition is ridiculous, but then I'd have to say that it's also necessary. It might be ok for everyone else to just gain skill and power at the rate that you're used to through seeing the training sessions and what not, but it's not enough for Sasuke and Naruto. They're special. As you've seen them up until now, they were superior ninjas for their levels, but still comparable to other ninjas like neiji and gaara. As should be obvious by now, these two have destinies that far more encompassing, and potentials that far exceed those of the other ninjas. It's only natural in a series like this, that at some point, that this passes from speculation to fact. This is that point. I don't believe the series is going to remain like this, in the sense of continual power ups. But right now, it has to happen for the sake of moving these guys along they destined paths. If you don't believe that they have destinies in the story (taking Naruto's position instead of Neiji's), you can at least believe that kishimoto has plans for them, and those plans involve Naruto and Sasuke being head and shoulder above the rest.

[Hotsuma]

You'd like to believe that, wouldn't you? But there's only one thing wrong with them interwining. If we go by your scenario, Naruto will indeed become stronger. But what will Kyuubi get on his end of the bargain? Maybe taking over Naruto's psyche, as Souryusen said. Kyuubi, in both mind and strength are more powerful than Naruto, alone. It's not impossible for him to suddenly start taking over.

There's no such thing as a free lunch, my Economics teacher told me in HS. I seriously doubt Kyuubi appreciates just giving out chakra (as much as he has) for free considering his twisted character.

[basey44]

this is starting to get really interesting, i reakon the fight scenes once the anime gets up to this will be of similar quality to lee vs gaara (drools)

[kyubisrage]

Well It seems that kyubi is trying to get a better grip on narutos mind and body. Why did kakashi get all freaked out when kyubi first came out when naruto was fighting haku. Maybe kakashi didnt understand that kyubi was released we arent really sure but its either kyubi is fighting without naruto. Or naruto is using kyubis power a lot more than usual. Also its not very fun if naruto never got stronger how will he reach hokage?

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: Uchiha Barles
Alright Hotsuma, here's my response to what you've been saying in both this and the raw thread. You say all this powering up and usage of alternate power sources is very dbz-like, and you don't like it. You also you say you'd rather see inventive and cleaver fighting as has been the staple of the series from the get go. Well, let me ask you this: how clever and inventive can you possibly get by staying at the same power level? Ingeniuty can only take you so far if you don't become stronger. Naruto would never have beaten gaara if it wasn't for the summoning technique he learned, regardless of his cleverness. Same thing if he's put up against someone like a jounin, ingeniuty won't be enough for Naruto to succeed at this level. So "powering up" is a necessity. The extra power when coupled with ingeniuty (how many times have I said this word already?) will make for far more interesting fights then we've gotten to see so far.


I never said anything about staying in the same power level. It's possible for Naruto to get stronger, but still use creativity and ingenuity to win a battle, instead of a "I've more chakra than you, so I'll win!" I think you underestimate Naruto's good points as a tricky ninja, and only look to him as just strong. That's boring. Don't think that getting strong must mean you have to use brute force to win.




You might argue that this rate of power acquisition is ridiculous, but then I'd have to say that it's also necessary. It might be ok for everyone else to just gain skill and power at the rate that you're used to through seeing the training sessions and what not, but it's not enough for Sasuke and Naruto. They're special. As you've seen them up until now, they were superior ninjas for their levels, but still comparable to other ninjas like neiji and gaara. As should be obvious by now, these two have destinies that far more encompassing, and potentials that far exceed those of the other ninjas. It's only natural in a series like this, that at some point, that this passes from speculation to fact. This is that point. I don't believe the series is going to remain like this, in the sense of continual power ups. But right now, it has to happen for the sake of moving these guys along they destined paths. If you don't believe that they have destinies in the story (taking Naruto's position instead of Neiji's), you can at least believe that kishimoto has plans for them, and those plans involve Naruto and Sasuke being head and shoulder above the rest.

I do think the power acquisition is ridiculous. Powering up is all fine and dandy. But through a lame and boring way as just tapping into something you've had forever? Come now. If Naruto and Sasuke gained strength, via work and training, I wouldn't look down on the current events. Instead, we're seeing recycled material, where the power pops up out of nowhere.

[kyubisrage]

Dont bitch at us Hotsuma for what has happend so far in the manga. Go complain to kishimoto. So Please stop bitching at every single aspect.

[Ryllharu]

Originally posted by: Hotsuma
You'd like to believe that, wouldn't you? But there's only one thing wrong with them interwining. If we go by your scenario, Naruto will indeed become stronger. But what will Kyuubi get on his end of the bargain? Maybe taking over Naruto's psyche, as Souryusen said. Kyuubi, in both mind and strength are more powerful than Naruto, alone. It's not impossible for him to suddenly start taking over.

There's no such thing as a free lunch, my Economics teacher told me in HS. I seriously doubt Kyuubi appreciates just giving out chakra (as much as he has) for free considering his twisted character.

Well, Kyuubi won't die forever...I'd think that would be a good deal for chakra.

That was kind of the point of Kyuubi aiding Naruto in summoning Gamabunta, if Naruto dies, the Kyuubi goes too. Sasuke is trying to kill Naruto to gain his silly super-sharigan (I know what its called, I just don't want to type it anymore), so Kyuubi needs to help Naruto win this fight to survive.

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: kyubisrage
Dont bitch at us Hotsuma for what has happend so far in the manga. Go complain to kishimoto. So Please stop bitching at every single aspect.

I'm not bitching at you. Stop taking it personally. It's called a discussion. An opinion. Criticism. The internet is full of it. Deal with it.



Well, Kyuubi won't die forever...I'd think that would be a good deal for chakra.

That was kind of the point of Kyuubi aiding Naruto in summoning Gamabunta, if Naruto dies, the Kyuubi goes too. Sasuke is trying to kill Naruto to gain his silly super-sharigan (I know what its called, I just don't want to type it anymore), so Kyuubi needs to help Naruto win this fight to survive.


It's not about Kyuubi surviving. I'm looking at it from a slightly different angle. A pessimistic, or "what if" view. It's about Kyuubi slowly beginning to influence Naruto's overall character. I guess, in a way, it's like giving yourself over to the devil. (Religious replies are not welcome)

[Naruto_-_Kun]

Hotsuma, if u dont like it u dont have to read it...if someone says they like it, it doesnt mean u must attack them. I respect ur opinions u should respect others.

Anywho, why does everyone think its a bad thing that kyuubi is mixing chakra with naruto, did jiriaya talk about there powers mixing? and he didnt think it was a bad thing. Also if its so bad the powers mixing then howcome after the haku fight and the orochimaru fight and the gaara fight naruto wasnt trying to kill every1 like kyuubi would try to do? I reckon its all part of his growth and as he gets older he'll get more power from the kyuubi.

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: Naruto_-_Kun
Hotsuma, if u dont like it u dont have to read it...if someone says they like it, it doesnt mean u must attack them. I respect ur opinions u should respect others.

Anywho, why does everyone think its a bad thing that kyuubi is mixing chakra with naruto, did jiriaya talk about there powers mixing? and he didnt think it was a bad thing. Also if its so bad the powers mixing then howcome after the haku fight and the orochimaru fight and the gaara fight naruto wasnt trying to kill every1 like kyuubi would try to do? I reckon its all part of his growth and as he gets older he'll get more power from the kyuubi.

I love it when people say "if you don't like it, don't watch it."

Get one thing straight. I like Naruto. Probably more than any other fighting anime so far. With the possible exception of YYH. Now, just because I don't like a certain element of it, DOES NOT MEAN I hate the series.

I said it once, and I'll say it again. Hidden power and instant leveling up is fucking gay. I don't like that aspect of fighting, because it's been done forever and then some, but that does not mean I hate the series.

Now, for attacking people. Sorry, I tend to get a little overboard on that. I do think people are undermining Naruto's character and individual strength, when they see *only* Kyuubi in there.

[Himura_san]

Originally posted by: Hotsuma


Originally posted by: kyubisrage
Dont bitch at us Hotsuma for what has happend so far in the manga. Go complain to kishimoto. So Please stop bitching at every single aspect.

I'm not bitching at you. Stop taking it personally. It's called a discussion. An opinion. Criticism. The internet is full of it. Deal with it.



Well, Kyuubi won't die forever...I'd think that would be a good deal for chakra.

That was kind of the point of Kyuubi aiding Naruto in summoning Gamabunta, if Naruto dies, the Kyuubi goes too. Sasuke is trying to kill Naruto to gain his silly super-sharigan (I know what its called, I just don't want to type it anymore), so Kyuubi needs to help Naruto win this fight to survive.


It's not about Kyuubi surviving. I'm looking at it from a slightly different angle. A pessimistic, or "what if" view. It's about Kyuubi slowly beginning to influence Naruto's overall character. I guess, in a way, it's like giving yourself over to the devil. (Religious replies are not welcome)

I don't mind criticism, but people like to discuss the chapter and not compare Naruto to DBZ.
If it's bothering you get the fuck out there are plenty of other manga's out there.
You should by now know what shounen manga is about, if it's not your taste go read Chobits or something else, don't complain about something you are getting for free.

[Uchiha Barles]

I never said anything about staying in the same power level. It's possible for Naruto to get stronger, but still use creativity and ingenuity to win a battle, instead of a "I've more chakra than you, so I'll win!" I think you underestimate Naruto's good points as a tricky ninja, and only look to him as just strong. That's boring. Don't think that getting strong must mean you have to use brute force to win.

On the contrary, I'm not underestimating Naruto in any way. Like you, what draw me to this series was all the cool tricks and tactics the ninjas used to win fights, specifically Naruto. And I don't think that getting strong just means increasing you ability to dish out damage through brute force, but I do think that it's necessary to increase your actual power (dealing damage, illusions, whatever.)



I do think the power acquisition is ridiculous. Powering up is all fine and dandy. But through a lame and boring way as just tapping into something you've had forever? Come now. If Naruto and Sasuke gained strength, via work and training, I wouldn't look down on the current events. Instead, we're seeing recycled material, where the power pops up out of nowhere.[/quote]

These power ups didn't pop out of nowhere. Like you said, Naruto's always had that power. Isn't it time time he started using more of it's power? I mean, what he was using before was a pittance. Gaara had more access to his demon's power than Naruto did. Also, this might serve as a starting point in the near future for Naruto to learn techniques that he simply cannot do without the demon chakra, like bloodline abilities (not like the summon technique, where if he had enough chakra of his own, he could do it). All the coolness potential this fight is setting up is well worth the dbz type power gains, specially since this happens so rarely (if ever?) And Sasuke...I don't quite see your problem with his evolution. He's developing his Sharingan. How do you train that? In battle of course. It's only natural that the third dot would appear in a fight of this caliber. Also, he's not using the power of the cursed seal right now. The way I see it, Sasuke's evolving quite wonderfully.

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: Himura_san


Originally posted by: Hotsuma


Originally posted by: kyubisrage
Dont bitch at us Hotsuma for what has happend so far in the manga. Go complain to kishimoto. So Please stop bitching at every single aspect.

I'm not bitching at you. Stop taking it personally. It's called a discussion. An opinion. Criticism. The internet is full of it. Deal with it.



Well, Kyuubi won't die forever...I'd think that would be a good deal for chakra.

That was kind of the point of Kyuubi aiding Naruto in summoning Gamabunta, if Naruto dies, the Kyuubi goes too. Sasuke is trying to kill Naruto to gain his silly super-sharigan (I know what its called, I just don't want to type it anymore), so Kyuubi needs to help Naruto win this fight to survive.


It's not about Kyuubi surviving. I'm looking at it from a slightly different angle. A pessimistic, or "what if" view. It's about Kyuubi slowly beginning to influence Naruto's overall character. I guess, in a way, it's like giving yourself over to the devil. (Religious replies are not welcome)

I don't mind criticism, but people like to discuss the chapter and not compare Naruto to DBZ.
If it's bothering you get the fuck out there are plenty of other manga's out there.
You should by now know what shounen manga is about, if it's not your taste go read Chobits or something else, don't complain about something you are getting for free.

How can you not mind criticism, but hate it when it's compared to something else? That's part of what criticism is, dumbass. Here, let me tone this down for you.

My criticism is : Currently, this turn of events is predictable and lacking in any real creativity, which we've come to expect from Naruto. INSTEAD, it's turning into something that is not Naruto like. It's lame, but that won't stop me from reading it. I'm not bitching, simply saying I dislike it.

There's my take on it, with a candycoated "But, I'll still read it" at the end. Now, shut the fuck up with the "like it, or shut up" attitude.

Uchiha Barles :

The way I see it is this. This fight would be far more interesting, without the addition of seals and beasts, and whatnot. Just a bad-ass fight to the finish utilizing what each of them have. Naruto uses what he has (high stamina, chakra, kagebunshin, henge [sexy no jutsu]) and Sasuke uses whatever he has to counter it. It would definitely dazzle the readers more, if you see tricks upon tricks, different jutsus on different jutsu, and so on. Not just a fight that gives a DBZ-like (oh, better watch out for the haters here) powering up of like..everything but your mind. Now, let's say they DID power up. I wouldn't mind them using said powers to further enhance what they were already doing (on a grander scale), but what I think we'll be seeing now is just a brawl without much thought.

Again. Power ups is cool. It serves as even more action potential. But, just duking it out without any thought, and trying to overpower the other... Just not fun, and expected from Naruto.

[Uchiha Barles]

Alright, I'll agree with that, but the fight isn't over yet, so there's still hope, and I think they're both approaching a limit. But I'd be fine even this turned out to be a slug fest, because I'm expecting excellent things to surface from the improvements these two made in this fight. I would however, prefer some surprising uses of the new powers they've acquired, while the fight is still happening. For me, this fight has been pretty unpredictable, but only because I predicted it, and refused to believe that kishimoto would be so predictable. But it's turning out alright despite that, specially now that Sasuke isn't using the cursed seal.

[Himura_san]

Originally posted by: Hotsuma


Originally posted by: Himura_san


Originally posted by: Hotsuma


Originally posted by: kyubisrage
Dont bitch at us Hotsuma for what has happend so far in the manga. Go complain to kishimoto. So Please stop bitching at every single aspect.

I'm not bitching at you. Stop taking it personally. It's called a discussion. An opinion. Criticism. The internet is full of it. Deal with it.



Well, Kyuubi won't die forever...I'd think that would be a good deal for chakra.

That was kind of the point of Kyuubi aiding Naruto in summoning Gamabunta, if Naruto dies, the Kyuubi goes too. Sasuke is trying to kill Naruto to gain his silly super-sharigan (I know what its called, I just don't want to type it anymore), so Kyuubi needs to help Naruto win this fight to survive.


It's not about Kyuubi surviving. I'm looking at it from a slightly different angle. A pessimistic, or "what if" view. It's about Kyuubi slowly beginning to influence Naruto's overall character. I guess, in a way, it's like giving yourself over to the devil. (Religious replies are not welcome)

I don't mind criticism, but people like to discuss the chapter and not compare Naruto to DBZ.
If it's bothering you get the fuck out there are plenty of other manga's out there.
You should by now know what shounen manga is about, if it's not your taste go read Chobits or something else, don't complain about something you are getting for free.

How can you not mind criticism, but hate it when it's compared to something else? That's part of what criticism is, dumbass. Here, let me tone this down for you.

My criticism is : Currently, this turn of events is predictable and lacking in any real creativity, which we've come to expect from Naruto. INSTEAD, it's turning into something that is not Naruto like. It's lame, but that won't stop me from reading it. I'm not bitching, simply saying I dislike it.

There's my take on it, with a candycoated "But, I'll still read it" at the end. Now, shut the fuck up with the "like it, or shut up" attitude.

Uchiha Barles :

The way I see it is this. This fight would be far more interesting, without the addition of seals and beasts, and whatnot. Just a bad-ass fight to the finish utilizing what each of them have. Naruto uses what he has (high stamina, chakra, kagebunshin, henge [sexy no jutsu]) and Sasuke uses whatever he has to counter it. It would definitely dazzle the readers more, if you see tricks upon tricks, different jutsus on different jutsu, and so on. Not just a fight that gives a DBZ-like (oh, better watch out for the haters here) powering up of like..everything but your mind. Now, let's say they DID power up. I wouldn't mind them using said powers to further enhance what they were already doing (on a grander scale), but what I think we'll be seeing now is just a brawl without much thought.

Again. Power ups is cool. It serves as even more action potential. But, just duking it out without any thought, and trying to overpower the other... Just not fun, and expected from Naruto.


I don't think you understood so let me clear it up for you. This thread is about the current chapter not about comparing Naruto to DBZ. We are talking about chapter 30 not how Naruto is like DBZ. When you start saying shit like that on this thread, where a majority of the people are Naruto fans then you are begging to get flamed. What I would suggest is for you to make a thread called "Naruto is like DBZ" or something similar, then you can see how many people give a fuck about your opinion.

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: Himura_san


Originally posted by: Hotsuma


Originally posted by: Himura_san


Originally posted by: Hotsuma


Originally posted by: kyubisrage
Dont bitch at us Hotsuma for what has happend so far in the manga. Go complain to kishimoto. So Please stop bitching at every single aspect.

I'm not bitching at you. Stop taking it personally. It's called a discussion. An opinion. Criticism. The internet is full of it. Deal with it.



Well, Kyuubi won't die forever...I'd think that would be a good deal for chakra.

That was kind of the point of Kyuubi aiding Naruto in summoning Gamabunta, if Naruto dies, the Kyuubi goes too. Sasuke is trying to kill Naruto to gain his silly super-sharigan (I know what its called, I just don't want to type it anymore), so Kyuubi needs to help Naruto win this fight to survive.


It's not about Kyuubi surviving. I'm looking at it from a slightly different angle. A pessimistic, or "what if" view. It's about Kyuubi slowly beginning to influence Naruto's overall character. I guess, in a way, it's like giving yourself over to the devil. (Religious replies are not welcome)

I don't mind criticism, but people like to discuss the chapter and not compare Naruto to DBZ.
If it's bothering you get the fuck out there are plenty of other manga's out there.
You should by now know what shounen manga is about, if it's not your taste go read Chobits or something else, don't complain about something you are getting for free.

How can you not mind criticism, but hate it when it's compared to something else? That's part of what criticism is, dumbass. Here, let me tone this down for you.

My criticism is : Currently, this turn of events is predictable and lacking in any real creativity, which we've come to expect from Naruto. INSTEAD, it's turning into something that is not Naruto like. It's lame, but that won't stop me from reading it. I'm not bitching, simply saying I dislike it.

There's my take on it, with a candycoated "But, I'll still read it" at the end. Now, shut the fuck up with the "like it, or shut up" attitude.

Uchiha Barles :

The way I see it is this. This fight would be far more interesting, without the addition of seals and beasts, and whatnot. Just a bad-ass fight to the finish utilizing what each of them have. Naruto uses what he has (high stamina, chakra, kagebunshin, henge [sexy no jutsu]) and Sasuke uses whatever he has to counter it. It would definitely dazzle the readers more, if you see tricks upon tricks, different jutsus on different jutsu, and so on. Not just a fight that gives a DBZ-like (oh, better watch out for the haters here) powering up of like..everything but your mind. Now, let's say they DID power up. I wouldn't mind them using said powers to further enhance what they were already doing (on a grander scale), but what I think we'll be seeing now is just a brawl without much thought.

Again. Power ups is cool. It serves as even more action potential. But, just duking it out without any thought, and trying to overpower the other... Just not fun, and expected from Naruto.


I don't think you understood so let me clear it up for you. This thread is about the current chapter not about comparing Naruto to DBZ. We are talking about chapter 30 not how Naruto is like DBZ. When you start saying shit like that on this thread, where a majority of the people are Naruto fans then you are begging to get flamed. What I would suggest is for you to make a thread called "Naruto is like DBZ" or something similar, then you can see how many people give a fuck about your opinion.

First off, I've only been stating that this is like DBZ, and defending it. And that's only because people continue to dwell on it. The similarities are there. I'm acknowledging it. Nowhere in this thread, did I begin to prod on that obvious fact, attempting to make a discussion about it. Only dumb shits like you take it personally and start offering choices like "Don't like it, don't read it."

Second, not every topic will follow exactly what the thread says, you fucktard. This is the internet.

Third. I said it clearly, that I'm a Naruto fan too. Why the fuck would I even be d/ling the books, and anime if I wasn't? And no, just because I'm a fan, doesn't mean I will like every part of it, either.

Having explained this, please just shut the fuck up and let the topic die already.

[Himura_san]

Originally posted by: Hotsuma


Originally posted by: Himura_san


Originally posted by: Hotsuma


Originally posted by: Himura_san


Originally posted by: Hotsuma


Originally posted by: kyubisrage
Dont bitch at us Hotsuma for what has happend so far in the manga. Go complain to kishimoto. So Please stop bitching at every single aspect.

I'm not bitching at you. Stop taking it personally. It's called a discussion. An opinion. Criticism. The internet is full of it. Deal with it.



Well, Kyuubi won't die forever...I'd think that would be a good deal for chakra.

That was kind of the point of Kyuubi aiding Naruto in summoning Gamabunta, if Naruto dies, the Kyuubi goes too. Sasuke is trying to kill Naruto to gain his silly super-sharigan (I know what its called, I just don't want to type it anymore), so Kyuubi needs to help Naruto win this fight to survive.


It's not about Kyuubi surviving. I'm looking at it from a slightly different angle. A pessimistic, or "what if" view. It's about Kyuubi slowly beginning to influence Naruto's overall character. I guess, in a way, it's like giving yourself over to the devil. (Religious replies are not welcome)

I don't mind criticism, but people like to discuss the chapter and not compare Naruto to DBZ.
If it's bothering you get the fuck out there are plenty of other manga's out there.
You should by now know what shounen manga is about, if it's not your taste go read Chobits or something else, don't complain about something you are getting for free.

How can you not mind criticism, but hate it when it's compared to something else? That's part of what criticism is, dumbass. Here, let me tone this down for you.

My criticism is : Currently, this turn of events is predictable and lacking in any real creativity, which we've come to expect from Naruto. INSTEAD, it's turning into something that is not Naruto like. It's lame, but that won't stop me from reading it. I'm not bitching, simply saying I dislike it.

There's my take on it, with a candycoated "But, I'll still read it" at the end. Now, shut the fuck up with the "like it, or shut up" attitude.

Uchiha Barles :

The way I see it is this. This fight would be far more interesting, without the addition of seals and beasts, and whatnot. Just a bad-ass fight to the finish utilizing what each of them have. Naruto uses what he has (high stamina, chakra, kagebunshin, henge [sexy no jutsu]) and Sasuke uses whatever he has to counter it. It would definitely dazzle the readers more, if you see tricks upon tricks, different jutsus on different jutsu, and so on. Not just a fight that gives a DBZ-like (oh, better watch out for the haters here) powering up of like..everything but your mind. Now, let's say they DID power up. I wouldn't mind them using said powers to further enhance what they were already doing (on a grander scale), but what I think we'll be seeing now is just a brawl without much thought.

Again. Power ups is cool. It serves as even more action potential. But, just duking it out without any thought, and trying to overpower the other... Just not fun, and expected from Naruto.


I don't think you understood so let me clear it up for you. This thread is about the current chapter not about comparing Naruto to DBZ. We are talking about chapter 30 not how Naruto is like DBZ. When you start saying shit like that on this thread, where a majority of the people are Naruto fans then you are begging to get flamed. What I would suggest is for you to make a thread called "Naruto is like DBZ" or something similar, then you can see how many people give a fuck about your opinion.

First off, I've only been stating that this is like DBZ, and defending it. And that's only because people continue to dwell on it. The similarities are there. I'm acknowledging it. Nowhere in this thread, did I begin to prod on that obvious fact, attempting to make a discussion about it. Only dumb shits like you take it personally and start offering choices like "Don't like it, don't read it."

Second, not every topic will follow exactly what the thread says, you fucktard. This is the internet.

Third. I said it clearly, that I'm a Naruto fan too. Why the fuck would I even be d/ling the books, and anime if I wasn't? Just because I'm a fan, doesn't mean I will like every part of it, either.

Fucktard its called taking a thread off-topic, it happens does that make good? No!
If you want I can make a thread for you where you can compare Naruto to DBZ.

Speaking of you downloading the manga/anime, it seems that you have'nt spend a penny on it yet you like to bitch about it, typical "spoiled kid" mentality. That is we say if you don't like it get the fuck out! no one will miss you! If you spent money on it, then maybe I would say you have a point, but your getting it for FREE!!!!!!!

Getting tired of educating these cuntrags. i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif

[ohpeekaboo]

oh my god.

please, take your conversation to somewhere else besides the boards, yeesh.

p.s. nice fight scenes in the chapter. really smart with the description of how sharingan works and how sasuke was fighting against the future spots that naruto would be in. oo.

[Hotsuma]

The way I see it, is you're the only dumbass here that's even dwelling on this.

AGAIN. Just because I'm a fan, doesn't mean I'll enjoy everything that's happening. People hate Sakura, and yet they still read the books. This is no different. And, also, they're still here! What part of Not everything will be liked, do you not understand?

And man. I totally understand where you're coming from. I hate having to dumb down obvious liberties such as opinions and criticisms. Take a hint, douchebag.

[Himura_san]

@ohpeekaboo:
sorry man.
I am done here, I don't need anything else to add so if you excuse me.

@hotsuma:
check your private messages.

[Hotsuma]

Yeah, me too.

Anyways, back on topic. I predict Sasuke will win this fight. Not because he was the better fighter or anything (he isn't), but just because we need some closure on this Orochimaru deal. And Kishimoto will definitely have to deliver it. If not, he'll be like a thorn on the side for the rest of the series.

And the level 2 thing as well. Next chapter will be Naruto owning Sasuke. Then Sasuke comes back w/level 2 madness. At that point, I think Naruto will be held back by Kakashi, while Sasuke finishes his deal with Oro. BUT, since they'll be doing more than just fighting (Naruto is a good friend like that), Sasuke *might* turn on Oro himself.

[Mut]

the best part about this is... I'M NOT PART OF THE FLAMING!

woot. where is that hiten mitsurugi guy? i miss shutting down his stupidity.

[Hotsuma]

What happened to Phoenix? He was actually pretty cool, simply because he saw the series past Naruto the character, but more as a whole story. I.e. "OMG. Kyuubi Naruto will never lose,even if it's getting boring!"

[viciousHyuuga]

lol nice chapter.

HAHA the demon fox thinks teh fourth was weak.

- what you get when you mix a warewolf an a ninja ......

NARUTO!!!

[Himura_san]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
the best part about this is... I'M NOT PART OF THE FLAMING!


A rare occasion for gotwoot.

[Death BOO Z]

I actually really liked this chapter, this is the fight i was waiting for...
Sasuke's sharingan kicked ass, and soon Naruto will kick unpridectable ass (sasuke couldn't see Naruto standing back up, cuz naruto's movements are now affected by Kyubi's mind)... no chidori or rasengan are being thrown aroud, and no obscure smoke comes out and wastes two pages...



and sorry for reviving this argument, but hotsuma, you say your favorite fighting anime is YYH, doesn't it a bit contradicitng to the fact you hate pointless power ups? there wasn't a 'smart' battle in this anime for years... about everything in YYH is 'look at his big reiki!' or 'your amount of reiki isn't enough to beat me!'...

[XwingRob]

Well this chapter shows that Kyuubi knew the Fourth. So it could support the mother theory...

but...

I really hope that's not true...it would be so creepy.

[yvliew]

stop bitching and discuss the chapter. Now it's just out of topic!

[basey44]

what mother theory?

[Sidnne]

Alright Hotsuma, here's my response to what you've been saying in both this and the raw thread. You say all this powering up and usage of alternate power sources is very dbz-like, and you don't like it. You also you say you'd rather see inventive and cleaver fighting as has been the staple of the series from the get go. Well, let me ask you this: how clever and inventive can you possibly get by staying at the same power level? Ingeniuty can only take you so far if you don't become stronger. Naruto would never have beaten gaara if it wasn't for the summoning technique he learned, regardless of his cleverness. Same thing if he's put up against someone like a jounin, ingeniuty won't be enough for Naruto to succeed at this level. So "powering up" is a necessity. The extra power when coupled with ingeniuty (how many times have I said this word already?) will make for far more interesting fights then we've gotten to see so far.

I'm going to have to disagree here. Like Hotsuma said, Naruto can still increase his strength without powering up. He can do it through training, experience, and learning new jutsus.

If you look at the really great shinobi in the series, the jounins, hokage, and sannin. They are all the most skilled and powerful ninja in the series, yet none of them require transformations or power ups to be great. They are all great because of their talent as ninja. Will we never see Jiraiya or Kakashi transforming to win a battle.

Don't get me wrong, it was cool to see Naruto go beserk against Haku and the first transformation agaisnt Sasuke. To me that was Kishimoto telling us Naruto is pissed as hell and ready to kick some ass. But this second transformation is overdoing it IMO.

Also, something that bothered me about this chapter. I loved seeing the sharingan in action and getting look at what user sees. But would the the fully developed sharingan really make Sasuke that much stronger? And by stronger, I mean physical strength, not powerful. I can understand that it allowed him to follow and predict Naruto's movements, but at best, it should have only allowed Sasuke to dodge Naruto's attacks. Having the 3rd doujutsu should not have allowed Sasuke to drop Naruto in only 2 hits. His attacks should not have done that much damage to Naruto if in 229, Naruto defelcted Sasuke's katon with just chakra.

I'm sorta rambling now, but you get the idea.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Sidnne
Also, something that bothered me about this chapter. I loved seeing the sharingan in action and getting look at what user sees. But would the the fully developed sharingan really make Sasuke that much stronger? And by stronger, I mean physical strength, not powerful. I can understand that it allowed him to follow and predict Naruto's movements, but at best, it should have only allowed Sasuke to dodge Naruto's attacks. Having the 3rd doujutsu should not have allowed Sasuke to drop Naruto in only 2 hits. His attacks should not have done that much damage to Naruto if in 229, Naruto defelcted Sasuke's katon with just chakra.
the 3rd comma did not increase sasuke's strength. all it did was give tremendous insight and movement predictability which resulted in naruto being caught off guard cuz sasuke was able to hit naruto before naruto could even get an attack off. when you're caught off guard like that, it's same as getting hit without knowing it's coming.

[chet_chetty]

In the Haku fight, if Naruto was able to deflect ice spears (or kunai, cant remember) with chakra at a subconscious level, there's no reason why the same shouldnt happen when Sasuke is about to land a punch on him. If his Kyuubi powers were consistent (seems to be more of a storyline inconsistency), it shouldnt matter that Naruto didnt see the punch coming.

And Sidnne is right, Sasuke's taijutsu shouldnt even phase Naruto let alone require Kyuubi to transform him so he can stay in the fight. The only thing different about Sasuke is the third comma. As mentioned earlier he didnt get physically stronger so how ridiculous is it that Naruto got rocked so hard?

It seems like they're dumbing down Kyuubi Naruto for storyline's sake so Sasuke can go even w/ Naruto for most of the fight.

[GotwootNewbie]

This chapter leads me to believe that Naruto is in fact related to the 4th somehow (most likely father and son). That old thoery seems much more logical now and the sharingan seems to be greatly influenced by ones emotions.

Also I don't see any random power ups...
Nine tail doesn't want to die and Sasuke is developing. Sigh why is he so stupid? Why doesn't he realize his sharingan just developed because he isn't using his stupid curse.

[XwingRob]

Originally posted by: basey_69
what mother theory?

Well you see in Japanese mythology there are tales where the Nine Tailed Fox Demon would sometime transform as a princess or something.
Now just modify it a little bit and you have the mother theory of Naruto.(Eg. Kyuubi was orignally a woman that had the demon fox sealed inside of her...but the birth of Naruto caused the seal to break, or some other modification)

That is a heavy assumption though..unless Kishimoto is counting on everyone forgeting that certain tale in Japan. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[Badmamajama]

Ok I'm sorry but the people who are complaining about Hotsuma's comments are completely in the wrong. This thread is for us to discuss the current chapter. If Hotsuma wants to make a comment about how he had some problems with the current arc by comparing it to DBZ then he can. That is in no way taking this discussion off topic. Frankly a lot of people here come off like a bunch of fanboys who can't stand to possibly there is a flaw to this manga and its kinda annoying when people make intelligent comments only to have a bunch of idiots flame them.

Well now that I've gotten that off my chest I'd like to say that I mostly agree with Hotsuma on these last few chapters. It's not that I mind power ups but not if they are used in the way they are currently being used. So far all this fight has been is Sasuke totally beats Naruto, Naruto powers up and totally beats Sasuke, Sasuke powers and totally beats Naruto and then finally Naruto powers up again. It's like some really lame tennis match that just goes back and forth. Now all of this stuff can come off really well if this is only the build up to the main fight where finally Sasuke and Naruto have reached the limit of there powers and do some interesting stuff. Right now it can go either way, this can either be the prettiest yet lamest fight we've scene or it can end up being the prettiest and best fight we've seen.

The Sharingan part was extremely well done though I will give this chapter that. Also for all you out there who think Sasuke taking Naruto down that quickly is unrealistic you do have to realize that most real fights don't last that long so two hits is a lot and let's not forget that if I'm moving forward to do a punch but you punch as I'm moving forward I pretty much move into your punch making the blow that much more powerful, which is what Sasuke was doing, he's just using good timing. That's what I always liked and Kishimoto's fight scenes is that they always had good fight mechanics (well except for the whole tennis match thing that this fight is turning into, that's just horrible)

[Souryusen]

For those of you thinking that Sasuke has beaten Naruto in 2 blows... read the sound effects in the inane version. The focus moves skyward and there are sounds from below indicating "various thumps and thuds."

Sounds like Sasuke took a little time to own Naruto's shit, actually.

[Stoopider]

Going to need to push Sasuke to level 2 absolutely.

[Eurasian]

the whole kyubi will take over naruto thing, i disagree. naruto seems to be in control. i guess it seems that way because kyubi gives him power surges but naruto will go back normal at the end of the battle.

every story in shonen jump involves leveling up. dbz and naruto r similar on that level. but story wise, nah, no comparisons.

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: Death BOO Z

and sorry for reviving this argument, but hotsuma, you say your favorite fighting anime is YYH, doesn't it a bit contradicitng to the fact you hate pointless power ups? there wasn't a 'smart' battle in this anime for years... about everything in YYH is 'look at his big reiki!' or 'your amount of reiki isn't enough to beat me!'...

Well, I haven't seen the entire anime, truthfully. The last big thing to happen was around the Toguro saga. And up until the end of that, the battles have been creative. Not just a big slug fest with transformations, and powers coming up out of nowhere. The characters in YYH, at least trained to become that strong, other than relying on gimmicks.

[dbesing]

naruto was blacking out completely, it was getting dark around kyubi again so kyubi took over naruto will most likely gain control at the last minute the seal on naruto didn't even break or start to break, its just the fact kyubi has mental and physical control and is pouring out his power, but no seal breakin i'm sure they woulda shown sumfin or maybe thats in next times hmm that could be

[kAi]

i liked this chapter, liked how it has been brought about...
i think we needed these powerups now during this fight...its important for these characters...he hasnt been kyubi-naruto in a while, i dont think its a bad thing...rather a good thing, as the characters are growing up through this mission,

[Jman]

this chapter kicked ass. as usual we're left to wait with suspense but that's ok. can only wonder what's gonna happen next week.

[Gods_Son]

Another Kyubi awakening, how exciting...

[Guy]

My theory on the next chapters is that sasuke will realise that his sharingan holds more power than the curse seals could give him because after all Itachi doesnt have one and Im sure he would own the sound four. Sasuke and Naruto with beat the info about where Itachi meets from orochimaru and kabuto and then go for them.

[Cryogen]

Another sarcastic remark on the interweb, how exciting...

Still, I kind of agree. Less power fighting, more clever fighting.

[Alu]

Instead of how you are looking at it, I look at it like this.

The more kyubi chakra that is used, the faster he will get used to it. The faster he gets used to it, the faster the two chakras merge.
Kyubi cannot do anything but leak chakra behind the bars. Anything else has yet to be proven. We've seen naruto go berserk with the chakra, but the kyubi is far from berserk. Narutos just not at the ability to handle the power hes recieving.


Also, I think once the fourth had Kyubi sealed in him. It would make sense then for Kyubi to know the fourth.

[empT3]

I'm Agreed with Alu on the assumption that kyubi was once sealed in inside the fourth, if you recall a lot of the jounnins and even the hokage was kinda butthurt over Naruto using Kyubi powers because that meant that the seal was weakening. I think that someone will probably be telling Naruto soon that he'll have to find some ways of keeping kyubi under control. It would probably be boring and kinda lame if they told him that he couldn't use it because naruto really doesn't have too much control over it. Or perhaps I'm incredibly wrong and we're going to see some kyubi/naruto superbeing later on in the series.

[obake]

Aw man! Did I call it or what! Posted this on 9/4.



Originally posted by: obake
I dunno, it's gonna be hard to tell how it's going to turn out. I think Kakashi is going to get there, but not in time to prevent whatever is going to happen.

SPECULATION:

Perhaps the fight will escalate so much that the seal on the Kyuubi will be broken and it'll be freed. The seal weakens whenever Naruto goes all kyuubi-like, so if he "kicks it up a notch," it might unravel completely.

Not 100% accurate, but damned close. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[?igma]

oh yeah..ehm..I neevr come here, but this Manga chapter was very interesting nad..how ever much you people believe it has nothing to do with DBZ and I quote:

Shonen Jump Question:
Ive heard that you where a huge fan of Akira Toriyamas "Dragon Ball" and "Dr. Slump". What was your favorite storyline of Dragon Ball? Or, if you prefer, who was your favorite character?
Masashi Kishimoto Answer:
I love all the stories up until the first appearance of Frieza. My favorite character is Kuririn, because he has the most "human" feel, and I really associate myself with him.

People that "love"DBZ up to the Freeza saga ..well.. are already influanced beyond human reach..

[Tap]

What "Power levels" are you guys talking about, everything is usually fucking explained in Naruto. Powerlevels have never been mentioned, not once have i seen Naruto just stand there and take a 2 hour beating like it was a two hour tickle fest as you see in dbz because of a silly "power level". To me it seems like you guys are using the wrong word. Sasuke's eyes as already stated above, only gave him more insight. And they did NOT appear out of no where the curse seal helped him with that as mentioned in the manga. The fox seems to be gaining a upperhand no naruto slowly, we do not know if the seal will ever come off completely or if there is a double-edge sword to it that affects only naruto personally.

Also what the hell? Powering up in which way you're all using it (DBZ) is standing there for 30 minutes grunting with a huge aura, NO one has ever done that in naruto. Kyubi chakra is just an effect, it's so massive that it's visible with life protecting Naruto. As for naruto not being able to deflect sasukes hits with the chakra, well he could see his movement before the chakra "reached and wrapped" Naruto's body it looked like (Not that sure, but it sounded like that from him explaining). It's a wonder i havent found any "OMFG DMC (Devil may cry) = DBZ!!" because of Dante's "powering up" as the game progresses and Devil Trigger, you silly people will always compare and look back at the first chance you get. Was it really that traumatizing? Dragonball Z i mean, you tell me.

[Mut]

great, first it was chambers, now it's this ?igma guy.

anyway


Originally posted by: chet_chetty
In the Haku fight, if Naruto was able to deflect ice spears (or kunai, cant remember) with chakra at a subconscious level, there's no reason why the same shouldnt happen when Sasuke is about to land a punch on him. If his Kyuubi powers were consistent (seems to be more of a storyline inconsistency), it shouldnt matter that Naruto didnt see the punch coming.

And Sidnne is right, Sasuke's taijutsu shouldnt even phase Naruto let alone require Kyuubi to transform him so he can stay in the fight. The only thing different about Sasuke is the third comma. As mentioned earlier he didnt get physically stronger so how ridiculous is it that Naruto got rocked so hard?

It seems like they're dumbing down Kyuubi Naruto for storyline's sake so Sasuke can go even w/ Naruto for most of the fight.
i don't know why it's such a surprise for you guys. it's not ridiculous at all. sasuke has gotten way stronger and it's only right that he can smash naruto in the face like that. think about this, when you try punching someone and before you can even extend your arm you're knocked right in the face. do you think you're gonna be completely fine? absolutely, not you're just not expecting something to happen like that and you're caught off guard. no matter how strong someone is, if they are caught off guard, it's gonna hurt way more than if they got when they're expecting it.

also, naruto can only deflect projectiles (whether they are needles or fire jutsus) when he expels chakra. he didn't do that when he got punched by sasuke.

[Assertn]

you know what reminds ME of DBZ? when that main guy in YYH shoots spirit energy things at people......OMFG KAMEHAMEHA ROFL ROFL

seriously, get over it.....dont act like a noob hotsuma when you've been on the forms for so long. Every time someone brings up the debate, it's always concluded with the fact that "MOST LONG RUNNING ACTION SERIES BORROW ELEMENTS FROM DBZ"

i think transforming is cool. It's lame when it totally comes out of nowhere with seemingly no explanation, like "omfg freeza still has 5 more forms!!"...but with naruto and sasuke its totally acceptable.
and for those of you who miss the days when people were using strategy and doing creative things instead of brute force.....go read the shikamaru vs tayuya match again

[Full Metal Kid]

THis chapter was awesome sasuke gonan get F*cked up ahah naruto's gonna eat him lol

[kenshi]

Originally posted by: Tap
Also what the hell? Powering up in which way you're all using it (DBZ) is standing there for 30 minutes grunting with a huge aura, NO one has ever done that in naruto.

have to agree with you on that.... characters from naruto don't get constipated while drawning out more chakra i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

on 230.... it was awesome seeing how sharingan works... no wonder the uchiha clan scared the shit out of everyone. i find the fight amusing, reminds me of two elementary school kids beating the hell out of each other.

[Hotsuma]

Naruto rising in strength through Kyuubi is no different then Goku leveling up into the various versions of the SSJ forms. Coincidentially, they both have to start losing in order for that power to really kick in Just because it's "explained" doesn't mean shit. I can just as easily say "Well, Goku can turn into SSJ lvl infinity (like you Kyuubi fans are saying Naruto can become) because he's an alien, and has always had the powers in him." It would be no different than "Well, Naruto is simply tapping into the power more fully" Or "Well, Sasuke can lvel up more, because of that stupid pill" Taking the cannon out of the picture, it's still reminscent of the DBZ power battles, where a new power arrises (or just expands) when somebody starts to lose. And so on. It's an ongoing cycle, until one just *happens* to be at his or her limit and dies.

And that's what we've been seeing. Sasuke and Naruto fight. Both are fairly equal. Sasuke gets stronger, beats up Naruto. Naruto, then becomes even stronger than that, and beats on Sasuke. Sasuke becomes stronger than Naruto, and wins that round. Naruto becomes stronger AGAIN, and will probably end up beating on Sasuke for a while. Obviously, the next step in this ongoing cycle is Sasuke will reach level 2, and we're back at square one. Explain the "Well, it's okay, because -x- reason" all you want to me, or anyone else. As a fan, taking the official cannon out, and looking at the plot of events so far, this is no different than DBZ.

Most of the people here are going to be exagerrating the situation with a random number out of their ass, like "Naruto is only using .123456789134741 percent of Kyuubi's power (DBZ like again!). Sasuke can't win this.!!!!!11one" Not once do people try to explain it without having the Kyuubi's nuts in their mouth.

[Assertn]

remember when yusuke was rising in strength through genkai's spirit ball thing? ah those were the days

[Guy]

hostuma,youre completely ignoring the underlying storyline of emotion,friendship and revenge that is driving each of the characters to reach their limits so they can accomplish their goals. Its like saying a marathon runner gets passed in the last 100 meters on the race and digs deep for extra energy to retake the lead and win the race. Its called perservarance and motivation. Its not like DBZ where they go in a room to purposely reach another level. Levels were never mentioned in naruto besides ninja rank and that means nothing. levels were in dbz from the start they had powerlevel readers for godsake.


And i still think sasuke wont use the curse seal he will realise he own individual potential.

[chet_chetty]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
i don't know why it's such a surprise for you guys. it's not ridiculous at all. sasuke has gotten way stronger and it's only right that he can smash naruto in the face like that. think about this, when you try punching someone and before you can even extend your arm you're knocked right in the face. do you think you're gonna be completely fine? absolutely, not you're just not expecting something to happen like that and you're caught off guard. no matter how strong someone is, if they are caught off guard, it's gonna hurt way more than if they got when they're expecting it.

also, naruto can only deflect projectiles (whether they are needles or fire jutsus) when he expels chakra. he didn't do that when he got punched by sasuke.


I stand corrected. Sasuke did get physically stronger after he was "reborn" so I'll give him that. I just find it funny that Sasuke was able to land the blow in the first place. I dont belive, in the Haku fight, that Naruto actually saw those spears coming at him thus enabling him to shield them off w/ chakra. It seemed like 100% of his focus was pointed at mauling Haku and the chakra shielding was a subconscious act. It was a physicaly reaction rather than a mental one. It seems that they've built Naruto to have somewhat of a Gaara-like natural defense when he's in Kyuubi mode (again basing this on the Haku fight) but it doesnt make itself present in this current fight. That seems inconsistent.

[Death BOO Z]

Remember the time you edited that message becuase it's a damn spoiler for the last episodes?

geez, there's a diffrence between talking about Yusuke's reigun and his powerups (since they occured in the first 20 eps) and between blabbering about the end of the anime...

unfourtanly, i was long since spoiled with that piece of information, but it doesn't mean everyone should be...

[Stægan]

i memory serves correct....didnt ewerybody in the 229 discusion say that the third dot i sasukes eye wouldt change a thing.....anyway a good chapter

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: Guy
hostuma,youre completely ignoring the underlying storyline of emotion,friendship and revenge that is driving each of the characters to reach their limits so they can accomplish their goals. Its like saying a marathon runner gets passed in the last 100 meters on the race and digs deep for extra energy to retake the lead and win the race. Its called perservarance and motivation. Its not like DBZ where they go in a room to purposely reach another level. Levels were never mentioned in naruto besides ninja rank and that means nothing. levels were in dbz from the start they had powerlevel readers for godsake.


And i still think sasuke wont use the curse seal he will realise he own individual potential.

You still don't get it, do you? I said, not taking the story into consideration (like revenge and stuff), it's STILL stuff we've seen before. It doesn't matter what the reason - that doesn't change the fact that we have seen this same cycle in a different series, which ultimately made it bad. What you're saying is "Well, it's ok that the fights become boring and their powers sky rocket, because of everything at stake." Maybe you're more forgiving than I am, but I'm only pointing this out, not to instigate this inane discussion of people denying obvious fucking facts with "justifications," but cause it's been done before and it is. boring.

[randomguy]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
great, first it was chambers, now it's this ?igma guy.

anyway


Originally posted by: chet_chetty
In the Haku fight, if Naruto was able to deflect ice spears (or kunai, cant remember) with chakra at a subconscious level, there's no reason why the same shouldnt happen when Sasuke is about to land a punch on him. If his Kyuubi powers were consistent (seems to be more of a storyline inconsistency), it shouldnt matter that Naruto didnt see the punch coming.

And Sidnne is right, Sasuke's taijutsu shouldnt even phase Naruto let alone require Kyuubi to transform him so he can stay in the fight. The only thing different about Sasuke is the third comma. As mentioned earlier he didnt get physically stronger so how ridiculous is it that Naruto got rocked so hard?

It seems like they're dumbing down Kyuubi Naruto for storyline's sake so Sasuke can go even w/ Naruto for most of the fight.
i don't know why it's such a surprise for you guys. it's not ridiculous at all. sasuke has gotten way stronger and it's only right that he can smash naruto in the face like that. think about this, when you try punching someone and before you can even extend your arm you're knocked right in the face. do you think you're gonna be completely fine? absolutely, not you're just not expecting something to happen like that and you're caught off guard. no matter how strong someone is, if they are caught off guard, it's gonna hurt way more than if they got when they're expecting it.

also, naruto can only deflect projectiles (whether they are needles or fire jutsus) when he expels chakra. he didn't do that when he got punched by sasuke.

Umm... if naruto can recover from an impaled right lung (with sasuke's hand sticking out on the other side) within a few seconds, Sasuke's hits shouldn't have phased Naruto at all. Even if Sasuke's punch's power is combined with Naruto's own force running into it, it's nothing compared to a hole through the chest.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: chet_chetty
I just find it funny that Sasuke was able to land the blow in the first place. I dont belive, in the Haku fight, that Naruto actually saw those spears coming at him thus enabling him to shield them off w/ chakra. It seemed like 100% of his focus was pointed at mauling Haku and the chakra shielding was a subconscious act. It was a physicaly reaction rather than a mental one. It seems that they've built Naruto to have somewhat of a Gaara-like natural defense when he's in Kyuubi mode (again basing this on the Haku fight) but it doesnt make itself present in this current fight. That seems inconsistent.
actually, the kyubi chakra does not act as a natural defense that is active all the time like gaara's sand. in both sources (manga ch. 28 and anime ep. 17), it clearly shows naruto exerting chakra outwards to deflect the needles away. they're all voluntary acts and they have not shown to act involuntarily.



Originally posted by: randomguy
Umm... if naruto can recover from an impaled right lung (with sasuke's hand sticking out on the other side) within a few seconds, Sasuke's hits shouldn't have phased Naruto at all. Even if Sasuke's punch's power is combined with Naruto's own force running into it, it's nothing compared to a hole through the chest.
naruto healing immediately after getting impaled by a chidori and naruto getting knocked down by a punch have nothing to do with each other. i do not see the point of the comparison. plz explain how naruto's healing ability has anything to do with sasuke's punch being effective.

[mage]

there needs to be some kind of chakra measurement readers in naruto that would be really cool i wish i could see who is stronger by just numbers it would rule beccause i wouldnt have to see them fight

[Death BOO Z]

let me explain how Sasuke punched worked, or better yet, i'll let you on a diffrenet example of it.

those of you who read\watched Hajime no ippo, there was the fight between Machita (or whatever he's called, Ippo's first rival) and Jimiy Hoppe (from taiwan), and there they disscussed the perfect counter, using both your enemies movements and you owns to deliever a finishing punch, Sasuke can do it with every strike, becuase of his sharingan.

Naruto's movement patteren leaves him vunrable on a few spots during a few moments, Sasuke can see those moments cordinate his attack even before Naruto gets in position, this way, Sasuke strikes are always 'critical hits', or 'natrual twenty'.

Sasuke doesn't need to be stronger than Naruto if he is able to slide in those hits, just like how Machita (or whatever his name is) wasn't one bit stronger than Jimiy Hoppe, and he still won.

[randomguy]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@


Originally posted by: chet_chetty
I just find it funny that Sasuke was able to land the blow in the first place. I dont belive, in the Haku fight, that Naruto actually saw those spears coming at him thus enabling him to shield them off w/ chakra. It seemed like 100% of his focus was pointed at mauling Haku and the chakra shielding was a subconscious act. It was a physicaly reaction rather than a mental one. It seems that they've built Naruto to have somewhat of a Gaara-like natural defense when he's in Kyuubi mode (again basing this on the Haku fight) but it doesnt make itself present in this current fight. That seems inconsistent.
actually, the kyubi chakra does not act as a natural defense that is active all the time like gaara's sand. in both sources (manga ch. 28 and anime ep. 17), it clearly shows naruto exerting chakra outwards to deflect the needles away. they're all voluntary acts and they have not shown to act involuntarily.



Originally posted by: chet_chetty
Umm... if naruto can recover from an impaled right lung (with sasuke's hand sticking out on the other side) within a few seconds, Sasuke's hits shouldn't have phased Naruto at all. Even if Sasuke's punch's power is combined with Naruto's own force running into it, it's nothing compared to a hole through the chest.
naruto healing immediately after getting impaled by a chidori and naruto getting knocked down by a punch have nothing to do with each other. i do not see the point of the comparison. plz explain how naruto's healing ability has anything to do with sasuke's punch being effective.

I'm not talking about getting knocked down. I'm saying if Naruto can recover from an impaled lung, Sasuke's hits shouldn't hurt at all.



Originally posted by: Death BOO Z
let me explain how Sasuke punched worked, or better yet, i'll let you on a diffrenet example of it.

those of you who read\watched Hajime no ippo, there was the fight between Machita (or whatever he's called, Ippo's first rival) and Jimiy Hoppe (from taiwan), and there they disscussed the perfect counter, using both your enemies movements and you owns to deliever a finishing punch, Sasuke can do it with every strike, becuase of his sharingan.

Naruto's movement patteren leaves him vunrable on a few spots during a few moments, Sasuke can see those moments cordinate his attack even before Naruto gets in position, this way, Sasuke strikes are always 'critical hits', or 'natrual twenty'.

Sasuke doesn't need to be stronger than Naruto if he is able to slide in those hits, just like how Machita (or whatever his name is) wasn't one bit stronger than Jimiy Hoppe, and he still won.


A hole in the chest sounds like a critical hit to me. End of story.

[?igma]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
great, first it was chambers, now it's this ?igma guy.

anyway


Originally posted by: chet_chetty
In the Haku fight, if Naruto was able to deflect ice spears (or kunai, cant remember) with chakra at a subconscious level, there's no reason why the same shouldnt happen when Sasuke is about to land a punch on him. If his Kyuubi powers were consistent (seems to be more of a storyline inconsistency), it shouldnt matter that Naruto didnt see the punch coming.

And Sidnne is right, Sasuke's taijutsu shouldnt even phase Naruto let alone require Kyuubi to transform him so he can stay in the fight. The only thing different about Sasuke is the third comma. As mentioned earlier he didnt get physically stronger so how ridiculous is it that Naruto got rocked so hard?

It seems like they're dumbing down Kyuubi Naruto for storyline's sake so Sasuke can go even w/ Naruto for most of the fight.
i don't know why it's such a surprise for you guys. it's not ridiculous at all. sasuke has gotten way stronger and it's only right that he can smash naruto in the face like that. think about this, when you try punching someone and before you can even extend your arm you're knocked right in the face. do you think you're gonna be completely fine? absolutely, not you're just not expecting something to happen like that and you're caught off guard. no matter how strong someone is, if they are caught off guard, it's gonna hurt way more than if they got when they're expecting it.

also, naruto can only deflect projectiles (whether they are needles or fire jutsus) when he expels chakra. he didn't do that when he got punched by sasuke.


whoooooo .. easy on the guy stuff, we don't know eachother I presume, just ?igma is enough.. don't get so familiar here.

But whatever you say, a naked DBZ comes down to this:

power->defeat-> more power-> win

Naked Naruto comes down to this:

Humor->storyline->power->storyline->defeat->humor->storyline->power-> win

so basically, not that much is different. I just think it can't be compared by what we have seen.
If you compare the visuals, there is in no way any connection to DBz.
If you compare the main focus, I think both are on equal lvl.

The visuals we see, as when Naruto "powers up" are there to make it look better, not because there is just this DBZ rip-off.
Naruto would be boring without some of those effects I suppose.

Although it would be stupid to deny any connection with DBZ.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: randomguy
I'm not talking about getting knocked down. I'm saying if Naruto can recover from an impaled lung, Sasuke's hits shouldn't hurt at all.
you're trying to make a connection between healing and pain but you can't do that in this case. why shouldn't sasuke's hits hurt at all? naruto isn't invincible so if he is hit, it'll still hurt him. naruto is only 'fine' after he has healed up. the only way for naruto to be uneffected by sasuke's punches if naruto was invulnerable to all attacks. i think you're getting something confused here. the kyubi's healing powers do not make naruto not feel pain.

?igma, who said we were familiar? "this ?igma guy" represents a description of a person who i'm not familiar with, if anything. but hey, you're probably correct considering you're 'smarter' than i am cuz you think the chidori can act as a magnetic force and i wasn't able to understand that.

[randomguy]

I'm not talking about pain. I'm talking about the damage Naruto receives for the duration of the battle. Sure, he should feel "pain" upon taking the hit, but that shouldn't hurt him for the rest of the fight with his healing abilities.

[Eurasian]

Originally posted by: Alu
Also, I think once the fourth had Kyubi sealed in him. It would make sense then for Kyubi to know the fourth.

the fourth did not have the kyubi sealed in him. how would he have done that even if it did happen?!

[Mut]

ok, i can't give a completely clear answer to your question cuz only kishimoto is able to answer that, but my whole point on getting caught off guard still works. i don't think naruto is hurt real badly or anything, he just probably real surprised that sasuke whooped him so easily so he's probably stunned at that fact.

[Assertn]

in the translations from that one guy before inane came out, kyubi said something along the lines of "kid, you should thank me.....and the 4th hokage who sealed me inside you"

while inane says "kid you should be thanking me....the one who sealed me, the 4th hokage....you're both alike"

i hate when that happens -_-

i dont get what people are complaining about though. I've never really seen an anime before that showed from the point of view of a character who could read the next move before it happens. Sure transforming can get redundant when used in alot of series, but here they took it a step beyond and showed sasuke's perspective, in how he can view what naruto's about to look like before he reaches that point, and leave it there until next week for you to see the full thing.

kishimoto is one artistically clever mofo

[chet_chetty]

or maybe Kishimoto is trying to show that Sasuke's strength has increased soooo much (because of the rebirth) that his attacks could cause Naruto to be immobile, when this hasnt happened before. I dont think we've seen Naruto incapacitated from a taijutsu attack ever (unless maybe at the end of a battle). He always gets up (sometimes w/ the aid of Kyuubi chakra, but nothing so much as a transformation occuring) even if he's busted up. And all those times he got up, he wasnt even in Kyuubi mode; he was just normal Naruto getting up because of his willpower or drawing from Kyuubi's chakra (not the same as Kyuubi mode). In this case, he was transformed and still couldnt get up and it wasnt becuase he was stunned or surprised. This is why I was in disbelief that a simple kick could prevent Naruto from getting up. He was in too much pain cuz he was knocked the fug out? It's very difficult accepting that happening to Kyuubi mode Naruto. But since it did happen, I'm willing to say that Sasuke's current physical strength is the strongest we've seen in the manga thus far exceeded only by Tsunade or even that big sound four dude.

[Nine Tailed Demon]

Excellent chapter, perfecto!

[tuggumkee]

Something to consider is that chakra is used in Taijutsu. Remember way in the beggining of the story when we first met Lee, someone(i think sasuke) mentioned about weird chakra. And sasuke is now conserving chakra, so the third dot itself allows Sasuke to make all his blows "heavy"

This is because now he's not using any chakra until he goes for a blow, then uses a substantial amount of chakra for the blow.

[Assertn]

the 3rd dot doesnt affect him physically......it just increases his awareness about chakra and movement

[Elessar]

I liked it. And I am pleased that Kishimoto did not fulfill hotsumas dreams of a "dbz-unlike" anime.

- Sasuke and Naruto meeting
- Sasuke releases lvl 2 curse seal, 3rd dot and one chidori per arm
- Naruto summoning Gamabunta, freaking kyubi mode, kage-bunshins
-> one big clash (double page)
-> fight over.

It's the only way to possibly not use an "action / reaction" scheme for a fight. If you can't reduce a fight to a single clash, you will always find a power or technique that counters the previous attack and compare that to every other random anime that involves fighting.

Other than that, I liked 230.

[jing]

I think if Gamabunta can do Kage Bunshin, well.......... the world is fucked.

[Elessar]

"Attack of the huge yakuza frogs with snake skin wallets from space" anyone?

[RasenDori]

sigh. i just read 5 pages of naruto vs. DBZ. and im depressed that its gone on this long. anyways, hotsuma, at the end of the chapter i kinda felt like you. i thought the new kyuubi transformation was rather lame, but i decided to sit and think to myself and come up with an answer as to why kishimoto, being the genius that he is, decided this was the best path. this is what i came up with: 1) i think hes trying to make this fight last another full volume which should happen within the next 3 chapters, but that reasoning in and of itself is pretty lame ,so 2) naruto would be completely out classed otherwise. with sasukes speed and now the complete sharingan not even the kyuubi naruto we knew for so long was able to keep up. i think kishimoto wants to show us the level 2 sasuke, but if he is able to defeat naruto already, whats the point? personally i dont think that this new "level" of kyuubi is gonna mean jack shit, unless its like a million times faster. and 3) naruto eventually is going to have to face off against aktsuki members at a young age, and if sasuke, orochimaru, and kimimaro are making kyuubi naruto look nothing, what chances does he have against kisame, itachi and the rest (okay...so he will never have a chance against itachi...but thats what sasukes for). my theory for the next chapter is that naruto will gain the upper hand, but not to the level that he just beats the shit out of sasuke (we saw that like last week...i dont want to see someone completely own the other again like the past 2 weeks) and then sasuke will decide that its best for him to go level 2.

[jing]

okay, ive decided.
gamabunta with kagebunshin can own itachi.

[Assertn]

why do people find it lame when naruto gets more kyubi power, but not when sasuke gets a 3rd pupil for his sharingan? i dont get it

you act like the sasuke thing is different because we all knew there was a 3rd level to obtain, but dont tell me you honestly expected the extent of kyubi's power to be that lame-assed kyubi naruto mode that couldnt lay a finger on oro and 100 of whom were beaten easily by kimimaro......

just think about it......if sasuke's supposed to be as strong as kimi and kimi beat 100 kyubi clones, then wouldnt it be lame if naruto could beat sasuke without having to go to the next level?

you guys act like the only thing cool in action series these days is when people fake people out with henged shurikens......
geez, if every fight was about strategy, then wouldnt you think THAT would get boring?

do yourself a favor and dont get involved in any series that has more than 50 episodes in it.........k thx

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure

do yourself a favor and dont get involved in any series that has more than 50 episodes in it.........k thx



And do yourself a favor by coming up with something more mature than "If you don't like a certain thing, don't watch it." choice.

Sasuke gaining an extra comma. Naruto gaining mountains of power. Makes no fucking difference. It's LAME.

Not to be a dick or anything, but the way you put it, it sounds like you're one of those people who just hate to admit that there are similarities between a good and bad series. Stop being such a fanboy man, damn.

Edit, oh and that henged shuriken was top tier. Nothing Naruto did was ever this cool. If I can see something as crazy as this from Naruto again, this anime would be perfect. But it doesn't, so too bad.

[Sidnne]

After some thinking, I have changed my mind. I realize now that Sasuke being able to hurt Naruto with his punches WAS EXACTLY what I was hoping and arguing for. You see, it is clear now that this fight is still based on skill and not raw power. If it was based on raw power, then Naruto would just stand there and take Sasuke's punches and say something lame like "Is that all you've got?"
It is actually more unlike DBZ (first time I have mentioned DBZ) because it would have been like Krillin trying to punch Cell, which had no effect.
I now like the fact that despite Naruto's transformation and power, he is still able to be hurt by Sasuke IF Sasuke is able to hit him. I look at it like this, if Naruto were to fight Orochimaru, Naruto would probably get beaten because Oro is just too powerful for him. But, if Naruto managed to land a punch on Oro, it would still hurt him. The trouble for Naruto would be having enough skill to actually land the punch.

I guess what I was hoping for before, was the 3rd doujutsu allowing Sasuke to only see and dodge and defend Naruto's attacks, but not actually allow him to stand and fight on par with Naruto. Then the transformation from the lvl 2 cursed seal would give him the strength required to make it an even fight where both had the same amount of raw power, and still had to use other jutsu's and strategies to win. This, IMO, would have eliminated the need for the 2nd transfomation by Naruto, which I'm still not a fan of.



Edit, oh and that henged shuriken was top tier. Nothing Naruto did was ever this cool. If I can see something as crazy as this from Naruto again, this anime would be perfect. But it doesn't, so too bad.

I agree. The shadow shuriken was one of the best things that Naruto has ever done for several reasons. First off, with the kyuubi inside of him, we know that Naruto is powerful. But the characters in the series all consider Naruto an idiot, but the be able to devise a strategy so clever that it was successful against a jounin that gave Kakashi trouble, that IMO is very impressive. And secondly, that strategy combined the elements that were the basis for Naruto early in the series: Teamwork, never giving up, and not leaving a comrad behind.

[Hotsuma]

I don't think Naruto being in Kyuubi mode makes his defense godly. It does a lot, but taking a shot unscathed was never one of them. If that were the case, healing wouldn't be necassary.

Also, I think Naruto would be able to hurt Orochimaru w/a punch even when he's not in Kyuubi mode. Nobody in Naruto has that kind of defense. That's one of the non-DBZ like element of the series, which does hella lot for it. (Making Naruto, Naruto for one)

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: Hotsuma


Originally posted by: AssertnFailure

do yourself a favor and dont get involved in any series that has more than 50 episodes in it.........k thx



And do yourself a favor by coming up with something more mature than "If you don't like a certain thing, don't watch it." choice.

Sasuke gaining an extra comma. Naruto gaining mountains of power. Makes no fucking difference. It's LAME.

Not to be a dick or anything, but the way you put it, it sounds like you're one of those people who just hate to admit that there are similarities between a good and bad series. Stop being such a fanboy man, damn.

Edit, oh and that henged shuriken was top tier. Nothing Naruto did was ever this cool. If I can see something as crazy as this from Naruto again, this anime would be perfect. But it doesn't, so too bad.

maturity has nothing to do with it. It's plain and simple....long running series tend to involve stuff like this, and if you cant handle it, then its not our problem, its not kishimoto's problem, its nobody's but your own.

and if you've been paying attention to the last several posts i left here, i was making comparisons between yu yu hakasho and dbz because I KNOW THAT ACTION SERIES RESEMBLE DBZ IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. It's a fact of life...and i have absolutely no problem with it. It's all about the execution, and frankly kishimoto's execution is far different than dbz's.

the problem people like you have.....is something like classical conditioning. You see stuff like energy beams and transformations and planets blowing up (all of these normally being cool action elements)
then you see long drawn out fights, entire episodes of nothing but powering up and repeated animations, and a recurring plot (all of these normally being bad elements), and since they are both in the same show, you associate the two.

therefore whenever you see energy beams, transformations, or planets blowing up, your response is its lame.

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure


Originally posted by: Hotsuma


Originally posted by: AssertnFailure

do yourself a favor and dont get involved in any series that has more than 50 episodes in it.........k thx



And do yourself a favor by coming up with something more mature than "If you don't like a certain thing, don't watch it." choice.

Sasuke gaining an extra comma. Naruto gaining mountains of power. Makes no fucking difference. It's LAME.

Not to be a dick or anything, but the way you put it, it sounds like you're one of those people who just hate to admit that there are similarities between a good and bad series. Stop being such a fanboy man, damn.

Edit, oh and that henged shuriken was top tier. Nothing Naruto did was ever this cool. If I can see something as crazy as this from Naruto again, this anime would be perfect. But it doesn't, so too bad.

maturity has nothing to do with it. It's plain and simple....long running series tend to involve stuff like this, and if you cant handle it, then its not our problem, its not kishimoto's problem, its nobody's but your own.

and if you've been paying attention to the last several posts i left here, i was making comparisons between yu yu hakasho and dbz because I KNOW THAT ACTION SERIES RESEMBLE DBZ IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. It's a fact of life...and i have absolutely no problem with it. It's all about the execution, and frankly kishimoto's execution is far different than dbz's.



You don't have a problem with it. And honestly, I don't care that you don't either. What I think is ridiculous is you trolling me(and anybody else)by saying "If you don't like it, don't read it" when I've said for the umpteenth time that I'm STILL a fan of the series. Disliking something isn't necassarily a problem. It's just a disagreement, one that I can live with. (but I'll still rag on it) Especially for one damn fight. You're making this waaaaaay bigger than it really is. I'm saying it has DBZ elements plastered all over it, and that I dislike it. You're the fool that's taking it like I insulted your fucking religion.




the problem people like you have.....is something like classical conditioning. You see stuff like energy beams and transformations and planets blowing up (all of these normally being cool action elements)
then you see long drawn out fights, entire episodes of nothing but powering up and repeated animations, and a recurring plot (all of these normally being bad elements), and since they are both in the same show, you associate the two.

therefore whenever you see energy beams, transformations, or planets blowing up, your response is its lame.

Uh, no shit. It's kind of hard not to associate the two when they share that many similarities. And yes, it is lame. When you see everything mentioned above, I don't know a word that better describes it. You can preach to me all you want as to why it's happening (Because Naruto is so mad!!!111one), but that won't change a thing.

Do the board a favor. Shut the fuck up and let me think what I want, without trying to drive me away from the series.

[jing]

Can't we all just be friends.... and hate sakura?

[mage]

kids kids, please grow up.

[Eurasian]

Originally posted by: jing
Can't we all just be friends.... and hate sakura?
if it has to do w/ hating sakura, then it's all good.

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: Hotsuma
You don't have a problem with it. And honestly, I don't care that you don't either. What I think is ridiculous is you trolling me(and anybody else)by saying "If you don't like it, don't read it" when I've said for the umpteenth time that I'm STILL a fan of the series. Disliking something isn't necassarily a problem. It's just a disagreement, one that I can live with. (but I'll still rag on it) Especially for one damn fight. You're making this waaaaaay bigger than it really is. I'm saying it has DBZ elements plastered all over it, and that I dislike it. You're the fool that's taking it like I insulted your fucking religion.

hotsuma, in all honesty i'd have to say the only one who sounds heated up is you. I rather enjoy debates that i have alot to say about. And strange how i bash the anime all the time for pointless things they add or animations that just seem wrong, and then people accuse me of being to hard on it. Then I come here and now apparently the series is my religion. wtf??

All i did in response to you was prove how your anal analagy about something that happened in dbz (something, might i add, which was NOT one of the reasons for it being a bad show) can also be applied to way more series than just naruto. In fact, i wasnt even referring to you when i said "watch something else" in the first place, it was actually towards Rasendori. You know someone's a spazz when they flip out at a single line of a big discussion.

As i've pointed it out many times, MOST long running series like this have these elements. In fact in the future if you find a fighting/action series that will last for a long time, then you should assume you're gonna get pissed about it, and so dont get involved with that series. Naruto starts out as a kid....naruto dreams of being hokage. OBVIOUSLY this means that over the course of the series, naruto will be "leveling up." If you think shuriken tricks alone was gonna make him hokage, then wtf were you thinking?

People tell you to stop watching the series cause nobody on this forum wants to hear your masochistic practices of reading something that you know you're gonna end up hating. In fact i speak for all of us when i say "NOBODY CARES HOW MUCH THIS IS LIKE DBZ"....these arguments have been done many times.



Uh, no shit. It's kind of hard not to associate the two when they share that many similarities. And yes, it is lame. When you see everything mentioned above, I don't know a word that better describes it. You can preach to me all you want as to why it's happening (Because Naruto is so mad!!!111one), but that won't change a thing.

interesting that you act like you understand my point, yet you just accept the fact, and decide to let dbz forever ruin any series that involves action elements that may have already happened in dbz. If you say it won't change a thing, then whats the point in even discussing anything with you? You'll only be using the forum to ventilate your frustrations while the rest of us have to endure it. And yes....i do mean ENDURE it. These chapters are groundbreaking events that will forever affect the rest of the naruto series. Those of us who are enjoying this would like to be able to talk about how awesome this fight is turning out, but instead our excitement is destroyed by all the whining that is going on in this forum. It really does take away from the experience when people bitch all the time.


Mage: someday you'll learn that arguments arent a luxury only enjoyed by the youth.

[originalkrn]

*OFFTOPIC**OFFTOPIC**OFFTOPIC**OFFTOPIC**OFFTOPIC* *OFFTOPIC*

i love to see when people "flame" each other on a network forum. Just please do it on topic.


anyway,
i thought DBZ was a cool series. Not a Great series (which would actually include logic, a good storyline, good character development, and a monster soundtrack), but nonetheless a very entertaining series to watch. If you weren't in awe from Goku turning SSJ ON Freeza and its all like "AAHHHH!!!!", then yeah, watever. I just thought it was COOL to finally have that sunbitch freeza on his ASS screaming for his life.

And yes, naruto has many similarities as DBZ which makes it a COOL series. But what makes it a far BETTER series (in comparison to DBZ) is that it actually has a good storyline, logic, good character development, and a ...decent soundtrack.



*ONTOPIC**ONTOPIC**ONTOPIC**ONTOPIC**ONTOPIC**ONTO PIC*
o yeah btw, i didnt read the entire thread cuz its.. pretty long.. so im not adding anything useful to the "discussion" if there was actually something going on. Here is my 2 cents: i thought freakin 230 was AWESOME! OMG. After i read that i was in awe. Not only in naruto's physconess, but also from Sasuke's power. I think it will be a tie. I really dont want either to win because 1. If sasuke wins, the whole goal of Naruto's promise to Sakura and Sasuke will not be fulfilled and 2. if naruto wins, sasuke will only become even more of a bitch and run away again anyway to Oro and maybe waste ANOTHER YEAR of our lives catching up to him. Kakashi has to play a VERY important role in this fight at the end since kishimoto gave us the honor by showing nearly a whole chapter of him jumping after them and probably even Kabuto, which would end up as an awesome fight. FUTURE APPEARANCES? : 1. Kakashi 2. Kabuto
3. Itachi 4. Jiraiya

[viciousHyuuga]

according to this chap it safe to say that, sasuke has relized that the curse seal is holding him back. true

[Elessar]

"You are someone who knows the same pain of loneliness that I do. And.. that pain makes a person stronger. Because of that, by severing these bonds... I will gain even more strength."

I was expecting Sasuke to win and join Oro - but after that sentence I don't think that option is valid anymore. Sasuke will, just like Gaara, learn that fighting for someone is better than fighting for yourself. Maybe he will beat Naruto and then be caught off-guard by Gaara or will have to face all the survivors of the expedition team + sand in a group fight when they fight for Naruto - and his very own sake. But what is imho certain is that by the end of this fight, Sasuke will have understood just like Neji and Gaara did.

[basey44]

haha theyve been running around in the woods for so long that i forgot all about the point of the fight and them realising its better to fight for others thatn urself

[kAi]

Chapter 231 prediction.
we will see naruto beating around sasuke, and sasuke then decides to use the curse seal because he cant keep up with naruto...and then we will see CS2 properly...

[Terracosmo]

I might be a bit late, but whoever said that YYH doesn't have smart fights is a dumbass. Especially if said person is a Naruto fan.
I'm sorry, but YYH's fights have a lot more twists and charm than most of the Naruto ones.

Finally, you should all read JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. Now that manga has the best fights EVER. So fucking smart. It's impossible to predict winners.

[Reason]

Cut the DBZ shit already, its been discussed to death!!!

If you dont like the fact that Naruto and a bunch of other series take some elements from DBZ, oh well. Its the author's choice and we have to live with it.

As for Naruto, which this thread and forum happen to be about, I think this fight is partially more a combination of strengths and tactics/strategy. The reason Naruto is not using clones against Sasuke is because it didn't work in the past, so he learned this and isn't wasting chakra on it. Sasuke is flipped out because of gaining more "power" which he is obsessed with because of his Brother. They are both in a high emotional state right now, so expect them to give it their all, which can include more advanced techniques/abilities.

Its just a damn story, quit getting all riled up over it, jeez. There are better things to do then to sit here complaining and bitching. Maybe its time to go out and get some fresh air and get off your computer for awhile. Trust me, it helps, i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

PS: If you want an example of boring, try reading this thread from start to finish, having at least half of it taken up on DBZ fighting, rather then the thread topic.

- Reason -

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure


Originally posted by: Hotsuma
You don't have a problem with it. And honestly, I don't care that you don't either. What I think is ridiculous is you trolling me(and anybody else)by saying "If you don't like it, don't read it" when I've said for the umpteenth time that I'm STILL a fan of the series. Disliking something isn't necassarily a problem. It's just a disagreement, one that I can live with. (but I'll still rag on it) Especially for one damn fight. You're making this waaaaaay bigger than it really is. I'm saying it has DBZ elements plastered all over it, and that I dislike it. You're the fool that's taking it like I insulted your fucking religion.

hotsuma, in all honesty i'd have to say the only one who sounds heated up is you. I rather enjoy debates that i have alot to say about. And strange how i bash the anime all the time for pointless things they add or animations that just seem wrong, and then people accuse me of being to hard on it. Then I come here and now apparently the series is my religion. wtf??

All i did in response to you was prove how your anal analagy about something that happened in dbz (something, might i add, which was NOT one of the reasons for it being a bad show) can also be applied to way more series than just naruto. In fact, i wasnt even referring to you when i said "watch something else" in the first place, it was actually towards Rasendori. You know someone's a spazz when they flip out at a single line of a big discussion.

As i've pointed it out many times, MOST long running series like this have these elements. In fact in the future if you find a fighting/action series that will last for a long time, then you should assume you're gonna get pissed about it, and so dont get involved with that series. Naruto starts out as a kid....naruto dreams of being hokage. OBVIOUSLY this means that over the course of the series, naruto will be "leveling up." If you think shuriken tricks alone was gonna make him hokage, then wtf were you thinking?

People tell you to stop watching the series cause nobody on this forum wants to hear your masochistic practices of reading something that you know you're gonna end up hating. In fact i speak for all of us when i say "NOBODY CARES HOW MUCH THIS IS LIKE DBZ"....these arguments have been done many times.



Uh, no shit. It's kind of hard not to associate the two when they share that many similarities. And yes, it is lame. When you see everything mentioned above, I don't know a word that better describes it. You can preach to me all you want as to why it's happening (Because Naruto is so mad!!!111one), but that won't change a thing.

interesting that you act like you understand my point, yet you just accept the fact, and decide to let dbz forever ruin any series that involves action elements that may have already happened in dbz. If you say it won't change a thing, then whats the point in even discussing anything with you? You'll only be using the forum to ventilate your frustrations while the rest of us have to endure it. And yes....i do mean ENDURE it. These chapters are groundbreaking events that will forever affect the rest of the naruto series. Those of us who are enjoying this would like to be able to talk about how awesome this fight is turning out, but instead our excitement is destroyed by all the whining that is going on in this forum. It really does take away from the experience when people bitch all the time.


Mage: someday you'll learn that arguments arent a luxury only enjoyed by the youth.

Sorry, man. I was in a pretty SHITTY mood last night after watching Resident Evil Apocolypse. (Do not watch if you're a real RE fan.) Anyways.

the point I'm trying to come across is that whenever I do say Naruto, or ANY given show that has good fights has DBZ elements, people really do act like I just shot one of their own kids. It's sad, but they live in this little world where everything in Naruto is perfect, and every fight is completely original. And then when people call the similarity, act like it's not real, or justifiable with excuses. "Naruto is mad! He's passionate about his friends..etc etc DBZ isn't like that at all!" I don't care, because that doesn't change the fact that it's still there.

What I'm saying is "I dislike this fight, and think it would be better if Naruto did... instead." If you're going to just sit there and enjoy everything that's being fed to you, then fine. Blindly enjoy a series. Nothing wrong with that. Other people have their own ideas of how things could have been done better. Is that reason enough for them to hate the series? No. It just means it's an opinion differing from Kishimotos. And it certainly isn't enough to warrant the "Don't watch, if you don't agree with it!" attitude that people here always cop.

And I agree. Nobody really does care if it has DBZ elements. It's shitty, but hopefully only this fight. It's dumbshits that try to justify and say its ok, that I think are fucktards. I want better, though.

DBZ elements did ruin this fight, so far. MAINLY, the process they were going through (lose, come back stronger) The fights, OTOH, were pretty fun, because unlike DBZ, they're still mortal.

Back on topic..

Finally.. Naruto gaining strength through a fox, allows him to become closer to Hokage? I don't think so. I think, ultimately, he'll try to become a great ninja, without having to use so much force. The hokages weren't hokages just through sheer strength. It's their SKILL that made them as good as they were.

Anyways.. SOrry again. I was fucking sour after Anderson messed up Resident Evil 2. Had to take it out on somefin. No hard feelings, hopefully. None here anyways.

[Knives122]

Havent been here in a day, anyway Sasukes abilities from I can see are far better with the Sharingan then with the cursed seal, and he was even able to kick Naruto out of his Kyuubi form.

More or less he will go to lvl 2 just b/c Kishimoto knows that the populas wants him to. the fact that Naruto basically depending on the kyuubi chakra now is just lame(no discussion otherwise).

I really hope that if there is a time jump, well see naruto being able to only use the chakra when hes about to die(only when THAT happens) if he goes on like this (the whole fox, one tail look) its going to get boring to alot of people.

The better understanding of the sharingan was very appreciated to alot of us b/c now we know that it perceives things several steps ahead. And Naruto and the 4th "Being similar" proves that he is the 4ths son (but its not like we didnt know that already)

[Hennyo]

i was hearing everyone saying how did sasukes punches hurt naruto well half of it was mentioned.

FIrst like already said the punches are counters which is using naurto's power agisnt him. Those punches alone naruto would quickly recover from and he wouldnt need to release more of the kyuubi. The reason that i did'nt see anyone mention was sasuke had kicked naruto head where it landed underwater. I mean how are you supposed to be recovring when you cant breath thats why naruto needed to get more power to reverse that situation. I dont care how much chakara a charater has he can still drown.


Oh and btw hotuma should have his own speacil group called "Flamemaster"

[mage]

AssertnFailure, the fact is, you aren't simply argueing, you're flaming like little kids. And, as you said, we're having to ENDURE through this flame fest.

[DeluxSkillz]

never will there be a chapter that doesn't turn out in a flame fest, why can't we all just share our opinions and not try to prove each other wrong cuz we know we can't nobody is willing to change their views on things anyway

[Assertn]

its ok hotsuma.....it sounded like you were bashing it just because they were transforming like something that has happened in dbz before. Personally i think the stuff in this battle is cool. Because you know that regardless of the outcome, neither sasuke nor naruto will be the same after this. This is one of the reasons why anime is better than cartoons......If you watch batman, the villain always gets away and the good guy always has to take him down the same basic way he has before. They always leave the show open for improvised encounters without fear of inconsistency (which basically means "make as many eps as they can before people get bored"). And its not drawn out such like sasuke upgrades, then fights for a while, then naruto upgrades, and fights for a while......both sides are changing in like, every chapter!


Terracosmo: the problem with coming into a discussion late is you miss the ideas behind the discussion.....nobody was bashing YYH, i was only using it as a point that other shows can be compared to dbz

mage: show me a flame, and i'll show you why you're a noob

[Sidnne]

Originally posted by: mage
AssertnFailure, the fact is, you aren't simply argueing, you're flaming like little kids. And, as you said, we're having to ENDURE through this flame fest.

You aren't adding any to the discussion yourself. All you are doing is chiming in with smartass remarks. You want to talk about maturity? Try not adding fuel to the fire. If you have an argument about something one of them has said in their posts, then state it. But you aren't arguing, YOU are flaming like a little kid.

Nobody is forcing you to endure anything. You know what their argument is about, if you don't like it, then skip over their replies. Thats what mature people do.

[mage]

Sidanne why do you have to flame me like that? grow up

[Sidnne]

Well done, Mage. You have managed to display the extent of your intelligence in only 3 posts. You are completely unable to post anything resembling an argument or add to the discussion. Your abilities consist only of considering everything a flame and calling others immature.

[Assertn]

lol mage...........

tell me, would your ideal forum world be people posting what they like and dont like and nobody else would respond in any way that opposes their post? if so.....then that would be one hell of a boring forum

[Knives122]

Yes it would, but I think the transformations are good, its just how many times they use them, people are mostly complaing and saying "wow, naruto went to kyuubi, Sasukes going down, ah man S just got his lvl3 sharingan, man, but wait Naruto got more power from Kyuubi, give me a break"

ILL SPELL THIS OUT FOR YOU REALLY SIMPLY, the reason why this keeps happening is so that when the fight over theyll both go and say "I had to rely on this(lvl 2 curse seal or Kyuubi chakra) so much, that in order for me to become a great ninja is to learn how NOT to use it as much" by the end of the series we wont see them use it as much, so stop complaining

[PSJ]

this chapter was awesome when i saw the last page a BIG smile went across my face. naruto is awesome in his new form. altho if he does this in every fight its going to become boring i hope its one of those one time things. i have to agree with hotsuma on what he wrote in the first pages. the lack of ninjutsu and strategy is becoming quite boring. sasuke is also awesome now with his complete sharingan. i want more :'(

just have to comment on this with yondaime, this looks like it will involve parts of old naruto - 4th theories and i would love to see who has anything right in this.

[Assertn]

PSJ: i still think inane got the translation wrong and its supposed to say "Kid, you should thank me and the 4th hokage that sealed me in you"

thats what another person translated it to be.....and it sounds more practical imo


i dont think strategic henges would be as cool in this fight.....its way too significant for it to have an outcome decided by some sneaky bastard technique

[PSJ]

ok yea that would make more sense... yea for this fight i want the brute force badass transformations fight but in the future i want it to go back to ninjutsu and strategy again.

[Knives122]

I wouldnt mind seeing what Sakura did to Zaku in a fight again(but not as gay or useless), with all the copies but ok brute force can sometimes work and I guess Kishimoto is just elaborating on that

[Assertn]

it all depends on the significance of the fight and the characters involved.

if naruto beat sasuke by farting in his face.........then about 80% of the naruto fans would stop watching

[tuggumkee]

Originally posted by: Elessar
"You are someone who knows the same pain of loneliness that I do. And.. that pain makes a person stronger. Because of that, by severing these bonds... I will gain even more strength."

I was expecting Sasuke to win and join Oro - but after that sentence I don't think that option is valid anymore. Sasuke will, just like Gaara, learn that fighting for someone is better than fighting for yourself. Maybe he will beat Naruto and then be caught off-guard by Gaara or will have to face all the survivors of the expedition team + sand in a group fight when they fight for Naruto - and his very own sake. But what is imho certain is that by the end of this fight, Sasuke will have understood just like Neji and Gaara did.

Now this is a interesting prediction, I would really like to see that. It would fit the theme of Naruto very well and also keep sasuke on the good side.(plus i think it would make this arc incredible)

[Terracosmo]

@AssertnFailure: And the problem with feeling that posts are directed at you only is that it's completely unnecessary. In other words, I wasn't talking about you. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[PSJ]

i dont want sasuke to turn good again that would ruin this whole arc that put so much weight in the sasuke - oro relationship and sasuke cutting all bonds to leaf. if he turns good again i will lose much of my respect for this show. just to compare it to dbz, i want a reverse vegeta situation instead of turning good from bad i want him to turn evil completly fomr this point since it has happened gradually for a long time.

[kaigan]

awesome chapter. lots of information is presented about sharingan.

future: sasuke needs to escape so oro can buttfuck him

[kaizoku_shanks]

pretty good chapter, can't wait to find out the conclusion to naruto vs sasuke fight.

[Ryllharu]

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
i dont want sasuke to turn good again that would ruin this whole arc that put so much weight in the sasuke - oro relationship and sasuke cutting all bonds to leaf. if he turns good again i will lose much of my respect for this show. just to compare it to dbz, i want a reverse vegeta situation instead of turning good from bad i want him to turn evil completly fomr this point since it has happened gradually for a long time.

I don't think Sasuke will come back to 'the good side' anytime soon. Ever since we first saw the sannin, the parallels with them and Team 7 have only grown. Sasuke is clearly the Oro of Team 7 and I would be really surprised (and disappointed) if Naruto managed to turn him around. Now I could see Naruto winning and dragging Sasuke forcibly back, which would only make Sasuke hate Konoha more. It would also ruin this whole arc that has started to drag on a bit. (Before everyone flames me again about how I complain about this arc's length, this chapter has redeemed the arc, more with the dialogue than the whole transformo-naruto thing.)

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
@AssertnFailure: And the problem with feeling that posts are directed at you only is that it's completely unnecessary. In other words, I wasn't talking about you.

oh.....i thought you did, since i was the only one talking about YYH i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

as cool as the idea of having one of the kids be a protagonist with the level 3 sharingan and level 2 curse seal.....its kinda sad that he'll end up being a bad guy i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif

[Terracosmo]

No you weren't, re-read all posts! Damnit! I should have just pointed fingers and called names to begin with lol i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
it all depends on the significance of the fight and the characters involved.

if naruto beat sasuke by farting in his face.........then about 80% of the naruto fans would stop watching

Man, if Naruto beats Sasuke that way, I'd love the series even more. It'd be the ultimate pwnage.

[basey44]

well at least we can be pretty sure naruto wont defeat him with 1000 years of pain

[Gods_Son]

Naruto is annoying, I hope he gets his ass kicked

[kAi]

i wanna see this superkyubi-naruto do some shit...looks bad ass!!
im thinking this fight might end with interference...but i think we will see a winner through the fighting, i just dont think the fight will finish...if there is to be interference

[mage]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
lol mage...........

tell me, would your ideal forum world be people posting what they like and dont like and nobody else would respond in any way that opposes their post? if so.....then that would be one hell of a boring forum

assertnfailure your racial remarks are offending

[kAi]

i dont see a racial comment in that quote..

??

[mage]

because your eyes are un-trained, my son.

[kAi]

well then train my eyes...
where is this racial remark in the text..??

[Eurasian]

neither do i.

urgh...if it ends w/ interference i would be not very happy. they need to finish their fight!!

[kAi]

yeah i do want the fight to finish...
its just that i have a feeling interfernce is going to happen before the finish..
from the start of this mission ive had this feeling that someone would interfere..

[mage]

man i hate this fight i wish naruto would just hurry up and drop some turds into sasukes mouth.

[Raven]

You still haven't pointed out the racial remark.

[mage]

well the fact is that its there

[Mut]

Originally posted by: mage
well the fact is that its there
there is one thing i can't stand, it's when people start to spit out bullshit and play it off as if it really happened or it's the truth. don't post stupid crap like that and if you don't like it, then show me where a racial remark was made in this thread. if you happen to find it, i'll apologize. but good luck finding it cuz if i looked through the thread and i couldn't find it, sure as hell you won't.

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: mage
well the fact is that its there

Shut the fuck up, dumbass.

[Uchiha Barles]

Originally posted by: mage
well the fact is that its there

Hey, if you're going to accuse someone of actually making an offensive racial comment, you should really point out where he did it. This is an attack on Assertn's character that goes far beyond any normal type of flaming. This is unacceptable. Point out what you're seeing or apologize. You don't have to listen to me obviously, but mods, if any of you see this, I would hope that you would enforce this. I'm sure you don't tolerate any kind of racism on the forums, nor should you tolerate any kind of unsupported and/or false accusations of such.

On topic: I've said this before, maybe, but I think they're going to reach a limit in they're powering up, at which point, it's just going to switch into the ninja fights we all know and love, but with high stakes involved. Situational analysis, cleaver tactics, etc. will become important again. That's my hope as well as my prediction. It would serve to show what these new powers are really capable of.

[Alu]

When did the thread change from Inane 230 to "Flaming troll biasly and blindly accuses someone of racial comments just to prove his ignorance." thread?

Anyway, I like the fight, but I don't want it to carry longer than a chapter or two. It seems slightly dragged out to me. Thats probably because of the numerous waits we have all had to endure. Oh well, I am just hoping in the end the finale is great and starts the new arc with alot of feeling and tension with it. I just hope he doesnt end this in a melodramatic sort of way. If it does the series will probably start or worse, become stale.

[Lefty]

Originally posted by: Uchiha Barles
On topic: I've said this before, maybe, but I think they're going to reach a limit in they're powering up, at which point, it's just going to switch into the ninja fights we all know and love, but with high stakes involved. Situational analysis, cleaver tactics, etc. will become important again. That's my hope as well as my prediction. It would serve to show what these new powers are really capable of.

I hope so as well. I miss the good old days of logical fighting. This head butting tactic is getting a little old. Kishimoto must be stressing for good ideas or is makeing us all sweat to the end so he can surprise us with a really good finish. On the whole interuption bit. Kakshi will get there to see the fight but not be able to stop what's going on. On another note. If Naruto keeps using the Kyubi mode more and more dosn't he run the risk of never coming back out of it again and becoming Kyubi him self?

[Hakeem_21]

Originally posted by: Hotsuma
I don't know why, but has it ever occured to people here that Kyuubi isn't as invincible as people make it out to be? What I mean to say is, maybe Kyuubi is a double edged, sword. And by tapping into his power, Naruto ultimately loses a part of himself in the process. I dislike the idea of having an invincible trump card for Naruto, mainly cause he's such a clever fighter, and will use trickery to win, instead of brute force.


Yeah normaly Naruto is a clever fighter,thats why the hole chapter i was waiting for Naruto to do something clever about Sasuke reading his movement,i want to see the clever Naruto not the one the goes berserk and becomes a demon fox even if he looks cool.

But it was intresting seeing Sasuke learning his sharingan more and when kybui teased Naruto was intrestring also cause finaly they said something about the fourth.

Also i like what you have said in the topic so far cause IT IS lame all these powerups,i think it becasue kisimoto is running out of ideas or he is saving somethin speciel for us.

[Baranthal]

Hrm thoughts on this entire leveling up etc...


Well... we have seen throughout the manga that both sasuke and naruto, and for that matter the rest of the Genin's are constantly training.

We are just being shown the "breakthrough" moments of these events. Would ya rather have seen another chapters of chakra modling like when Naruto was dealing with the Rasengan. Yay training.
As much as I love seeing Lee kick a tree... it gets boring after the 50th time.

Suffice it to say I really enjoyed this chapter. I like seeing the characters grow and mature. I don't need to see every step of how they got to it... seeing the end results is just fine at times.

[Shadow-arrows]

Originally posted by: tuggumkee


Originally posted by: Elessar
"You are someone who knows the same pain of loneliness that I do. And.. that pain makes a person stronger. Because of that, by severing these bonds... I will gain even more strength."

I was expecting Sasuke to win and join Oro - but after that sentence I don't think that option is valid anymore. Sasuke will, just like Gaara, learn that fighting for someone is better than fighting for yourself. Maybe he will beat Naruto and then be caught off-guard by Gaara or will have to face all the survivors of the expedition team + sand in a group fight when they fight for Naruto - and his very own sake. But what is imho certain is that by the end of this fight, Sasuke will have understood just like Neji and Gaara did.

Now this is a interesting prediction, I would really like to see that. It would fit the theme of Naruto very well and also keep sasuke on the good side.(plus i think it would make this arc incredible)

I agree with this, i see kakashi rallying all the gennins, sand and bringing them to interupt the fight, which by this time will be at the climax where sasuke and naruto will almost kill each other, (after powering up to the max), by doing some big mega jitsu. then after being interupted, they have this long talk about how the leaf will not make sasuke weaker (they did defeat the five sounds). however, before sasuke makes up his up, kabuto shows up aducts him and brings him to the snake man he will brain wash him and take over his body before he gets rescue haahahahaaa!! i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif (j/k) but i do agree that sasuke will see the light ,i feel a character like him in this situation will go back to the good side sooner or later i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

As for the mother theory... doubt it, i think when kuybi said that naruto and the fourth are alike he was talking about their spirit.... ( when the fourth was battling kuybi he must have acted and talked like naruto before finally sealing kuybi), this probable means that even the kuybi agrees that he will be the fifth, hokage. (or maybe i'm comletely wrong and its really a mis-translation.)

i don't think the nine-tails is a double-egde sword, rather a really strong power... and i'am sure u have heard this before .."power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutly" i think that this might have somesort of play in this story..

Anyway, i'm hopeful that kishimoto is really just pumping us up for the real fighting the next chapter, obviously, it's working lol, thats when we'ill see naruto's creativity combine with kuybi's strength vs sasuke's almost complete sharigan with his no.1 skills in ninja art combine with his cursed seal strength.
the will of fighting for oneself vs. the spirit of fighting for someone else. i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif

please comment nicely lol i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[mage]

jeez why do you guys have to flame me so bad?

[Raven]

*coughMoroncough*

Anyway, welcome to the forums Shadow-arrows!

[basey44]

wow thats a big 1st post

[Assertn]

whoa, whats been going on here while i was away? racial wha? i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

i dunno if sneakiness would work in naruto's favor in this match. Sasuke's a pretty clever guy as well, and dont forget.....he can see through genjutsu, so all the crafty stuff naruto tends to come up with (usually involving henge), wouldnt even work.

[Mut]

sasuke isn't coming back to the leaf nor is he gonna turn good!

the only reason why kakashi was introduced back to the arc was to bring back naruto's beaten up body.

[Inazuma Kami]

Maybe .....

Gamabunta will settled this ...
Frog boss is summoned , he catch Sasuke with his tong and hold him inside his throat .
That's the simple way ....

Or we'll get some super fight; Sasuke turn Super Wild and Naruto increase his Kyuubi Side and loose control for a frw moment.
*Take cover !*

Or kishimoto will gave us some super Naruto Chapter ...

Sakura will maybe put an end to this fight (like on the roof of this Hospital ...)
She will think "I can't let the ones I loves kill each others , I must do something .." Sakura jump in the battle , but this time no kakashi to recuse her and °°Bang°° She dies ...
Naruto and Sasuke come back to normal

[Knives122]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
sasuke isn't coming back to the leaf nor is he gonna turn good!

the only reason why kakashi was introduced back to the arc was to bring back naruto's beaten up body.

You know there have been times(in anime/manga) where that one good guy went bad and then turned good again, so its still possible for him to still be good

[Eurasian]

how awkward would it be if sasuke came back? but i don't want him to work w/ oro. still...

[PSJ]

sasuke wont come back. its like mutata said. why would kakashi be able to make him come back now when he couldnt before sasuke is even more set on going to orochimaru now then he was last time kakashi talked to him about it.

[Knives122]

I think this time around he may actually have to do it by force(most likely will not work), and just b/c he going there doesnt mean he has to stay after hes learned everthing he needed from him, unless oro takes his body.

[Sidnne]

Its like Gaara discovered, love makes us strong, not pain. Sasuke will discover this too. Perhaps Kakashi will show up and give Sasuke a clue about the truth behind the mangekyo(sp?). Maybe he will tell him that the real secret is not killing your best friend, but the realization of just how much that person meant to you. Afterall, sometimes you don't know what you've got til its gone, right? Love is the answer!

[PSJ]

no he will probably not stay after getting stronger afterall he wants to kill itachi but after that he will just turn into a missing nin like his older brother, heck if he continues like this he will become his older brother.

[Knives122]

Oh I can see it now if that happens, hell be somewhere(probably after a hard fight with one of his old comerads(sp?)) and he looks in a puddle or pond and sees his face and then he sees his brothers face and screams, that would be good b/c he would've realized that he has been following the wrong path but its just speculation.

[Eurasian]

Originally posted by: Sidnne
Its like Gaara discovered, love makes us strong, not pain. Sasuke will discover this too. Perhaps Kakashi will show up and give Sasuke a clue about the truth behind the mangekyo(sp?). Maybe he will tell him that the real secret is not killing your best friend, but the realization of just how much that person meant to you. Afterall, sometimes you don't know what you've got til its gone, right? Love is the answer!
:: sniff sniff :: that was so touching.

sasuke be like itachi...HAH!! sasuke's not that strong. but that scenario that knives made up would be touching too. :: sniff sniff :: i might actually cry.

[Reason]

Why do I have the feeling this is how this arc will end:

My prediction:

Naruto is already going berserk in the next chapter since he can't handle the amount of chakra, Sasuke can't handle it either and he wont go Level 2. Before Naruto can do any more harm to Sasuke, The Genin's show up with the Sand nins, and then they try to stop Naruto from flipping out, meanwhile Sasuke flees to Oro, and then Finally Kakashi shows up to deal with Naruto.

I can also see this heading south, with Kakashi showing up in time to stop them from killing each other, but then perhaps Sasuke kills Kakashi or something.

Either of these would be an interesting conclussion.

- Reason -

[jing]

sasuke kill kakashi??????

[Souryusen]

Originally posted by: jing
sasuke kill kakashi??????

It might satisfy the "kill your closest friend" thing for him and still leave the series with a protagonist.... though minus one wu-tang badass ninja.

[jing]

im just sayinh SASUKE KILL KAKASHI? HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE.

[Raven]

Originally posted by: Reason
Why do I have the feeling this is how this arc will end:

My prediction:

Naruto is already going berserk in the next chapter since he can't handle the amount of chakra, Sasuke can't handle it either and he wont go Level 2. Before Naruto can do any more harm to Sasuke, The Genin's show up with the Sand nins, and then they try to stop Naruto from flipping out, meanwhile Sasuke flees to Oro, and then Finally Kakashi shows up to deal with Naruto.

I can also see this heading south, with Kakashi showing up in time to stop them from killing each other, but then perhaps Sasuke kills Kakashi or something.

Either of these would be an interesting conclussion.

- Reason -
Either of these may happen, but I really must disagree about level 2. We will see it soon enough, I think that's a given.

[Hotsuma]

I have the ultimate solution. Kakashi brings Sakura around, and being the Sasuke-obsessed bitch she is, gets in the way of one of Naruto's blows, thus killing her. Or, he kills her himself, and then meets the requirement for level 2. Either way, she dies and the rest of the world is happy.

[kaigan]

so many possiblities. it would suck if sasuke goes back to the leaf. it's a big blow if this happens.

[Hotsuma]

But you know it's going to happen. Sasuke's going to grow up sometimes. And, going back to the Leaf is just a part of that. I don't see why people here hate Sasuke so much. Prior to these set of events (Oro part 2), he was a pretty good guy. He saved Naruto's can a few times, most noticably, in his fight with Haku. He was a noble character, until Itachi fucked his mind up.

[kAi]

i wont sasuke to go bad...but goin back to the leaf is kinda enivitable(sp?) i dont really mind that...i dont really mind sasuke he is not that bad of a character...but yeah he let itachi play around with him to much.

[Uchiha Barles]

Yeah, that's a weakness. What he should do is "eh. I'm alive, I'll get stronger, but I'm not worrying about itachi. the past, as bad as it was, is the past. I'll move on." Itachi'll probably come after him then, and he can kill him when that happens.

[Kid.Hendrix]

Bleh. If Sasuke goes back to Konoha then there will be nothing to drive the story. Sakura will get in the way, and they'll continue doing non-story missions. Sasuke needs to go to Orochimaru while Sakura turns her back on Naruto to break team 7(Is that the number?) and drive the story somewhere that it should go, like more individual character development for those characters just now taking the spotlight (Neji, if he lived, Shikamaru, etc.. and the new alliance with the Leaf and Sand).

Let him go, people! Sasuke needs to follow this path and let his spirit get broken later by Itachi. I doubt he'll stay with Orochimaru long anyway.

[Eurasian]

Originally posted by: Hotsuma
I have the ultimate solution. Kakashi brings Sakura around, and being the Sasuke-obsessed bitch she is, gets in the way of one of Naruto's blows, thus killing her. Or, he kills her himself, and then meets the requirement for level 2. Either way, she dies and the rest of the world is happy.
yes yes the world would be a better place. tears of joy r flowing from my eyes.


sasuke can come back to konoha and together he and naruto can battle the akatsuki together.

[xtort]

I have to say that this thread has been 9 pages of utter shit. I had to sift through that many pages of DBZ-flames, when the arguing parties should have created their own thread for the argumentatively challenged, and fought it out with blowup boxing gloves.

There were a few gems though. Elessar's comment that brought up the point of the entire arc was exceedingly accurate, in my eyes. The whole point of this adventure was to prove the point... fighting for someone else is what makes you strong. It seems that every (good) main character in the story has learned the lesson except Sasuke. (Whether he's "good" or "bad" is up for debate now...) Most of the people learned that lesson... FIGHTING NARUTO. Hello?! *knock knock knock* Anyone home?! i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

My predictions for the next chapter... I think that the three-dot sharingan will be a possible negative when his sight fills with the probabilities of Naruto's moves. I have a vision in my head of tons of Narutos on a single pane surrounding Sasuke. Probably not though... just a Naruto-fanboy vision probably.

As far as long term, I'd love if Gaara and Lee entered the picture together to illustrate the point Elessar brought up. Imagine the effect that Lee and Gaara fighting for Naruto would make upon Sasuke.

Regardless, flame away... seems to be the only thing Gotwoot has been good for lately.

-xtortout

[Ryllharu]

Originally posted by: xtort
I have to say that this thread has been 9 pages of utter shit. I had to sift through that many pages of DBZ-flames, when the arguing parties should have created their own thread for the argumentatively challenged, and fought it out with blowup boxing gloves.

There were a few gems though. Elessar's comment that brought up the point of the entire arc was exceedingly accurate, in my eyes. The whole point of this adventure was to prove the point... fighting for someone else is what makes you strong. It seems that every (good) main character in the story has learned the lesson except Sasuke. (Whether he's "good" or "bad" is up for debate now...) Most of the people learned that lesson... FIGHTING NARUTO. Hello?! *knock knock knock* Anyone home?!

My predictions for the next chapter... I think that the three-dot sharingan will be a possible negative when his sight fills with the probabilities of Naruto's moves. I have a vision in my head of tons of Narutos on a single pane surrounding Sasuke. Probably not though... just a Naruto-fanboy vision probably.

As far as long term, I'd love if Gaara and Lee entered the picture together to illustrate the point Elessar brought up. Imagine the effect that Lee and Gaara fighting for Naruto would make upon Sasuke.

Regardless, flame away... seems to be the only thing Gotwoot has been good for lately.

-xtortout


I'm not even sure why all these people are obsessed with the possessed-uber-Naruto. Visual effects like this have been done before (Haku fight, Gaara, and most noticably, the fight with Neji in the finals). Naruto has had this aura before, or at least a similar one. I'm beginning to think most of this DBZ flaming is actually uncalled for because we're all just wrong about that last panel.

The rest of this battle will probably be a battle between the main theme of Naruto, fighting to protect someone, and fighting to gain power. Sasuke may very well come back (as far as he's gone though, I doubt it). Sasuke may not even *want* to fight Itachi after he gains full power over his potential (which he reached at this point by evolving his curse seal). Naruto is fighting Sasuke to protect Sasuke from falling into evil. I do not think Sasuke will ever hold a candle to Naruto again.

I also believe that no matter what, Sasuke is going to run. If he wins, he's succeeded in gaining the power to kill (or at least match) Itachi at this point. If he loses, he'll only hate and resent Naruto and Konoha more.


Other than that, I guess we'll all just have to find out...

[RasenDori]

i dont think that sasuke will ever match itachi until gets the mangekyou. im ready to see naruto and sasuke go on seperate paths. i think that sasuke is meant to be the embodiment (sp?) of everything that is oposite to naruto. if he changes now and goes back to the leaf it would be a waste of the past year, but as this fight continues to prolong the more confident i am that it will be interupted. if so, i really hope that sasuke finds another way to get the mangekyou. well, at least we can look forward to sasuke going level 2 at the end of the next chapter.

[basey44]

itachi set sasuke on the path of hate on purpose knowing that sasuke would end up the same as him if he followed it

itachi will never acknolage sasukes strength and will never seek sasuke out for the purpose of killing him(unless it is for an alternate reason) it will be sasuke always chasing itachi

[Hotsuma]

If Naruto starts using that gay-ass Kyuubi form in every fight to win, he, and the series will suck ass. Just like DBZ did. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

People who want Sasuke to become evil.. Dream on. It's not going to happen. So far, everybody in Naruto who's fought against him has ultimately changed their ways. I think it's lame that they do, because a kid yaps his mouth, but oh well.

Sasuke going a different way (like on a different journey), I see happening though. When people in these types of series get a reality check, they tend to go on long journies to figure things out. (but then come back immediately when there's a crisis heh)

Anyways. Next fight, the Sharingan won't be able to keep up with Naruto. Probably because Kyuubi is directly involved in the fight this time, and he might emit a different set of moves (like X-tort said), making it impossible to predict. But then he'll come back level 2 and kick Naruto's ass. Not sure when Kakashi will come around, but he'll be there somewhere.

[Ryllharu]

1) I never said Sasuke is going to stay evil (and if I did, I'm sorry for contradicting myself) But he probably isn't going to be 'good' at the end of this arc. Lots of series have done the whole rival thing, and Naruto and Sasuke are clear rivals. Sasuke has more skills and Naruto is pure raw power. Rivals tend to hate each other. Sasuke will come back, just not anytime soon.

2) I've really really seen enough of the endless Itachi fanboys. Yes, he's powerful. Yes, he can probably destroy most of the chunnin and several jounin single handedly. Yes, the whatever-its-called-I-don't-want-to-bother-to-spell-it-anymore-super-sharingan is really really powerful and I don't want to hear anymore about that either. Itachi fanboys have begun to use the Mangekyou sharingan as an excuse, to say that Itachi will never lose. Itachi has blatantly stated he CAN'T beat more than one sennin level ninja.

3) If anyone should be fawning over a really strong character, it should be Oro. He, crippled, but with a little help from a jounin level, took on the other two sannin to a stalemate. And has killed a Hokage (it was an old one though). In Sarutobi's defence, and Oro's I guess, Sarutobi killed two hokages himself in that battle. Oro with not cursed hands is one of, if not the most powerful characters so far. I still hate him though...


Stupid Itachi fanboys, we don't even know the extent of Sasuke's lvl 2 seal...

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: Ryllharu

3) If anyone should be fawning over a really strong character, it should be Oro. He, crippled, but with a little help from a jounin level, took on the other two sannin to a stalemate. And has killed a Hokage (it was an old one though). In Sarutobi's defence, and Oro's I guess, Sarutobi killed two hokages himself in that battle. Oro with not cursed hands is one of, if not the most powerful characters so far. I still hate him though...


Stupid Itachi fanboys, we don't even know the extent of Sasuke's lvl 2 seal...

Explain how people should be fawning over a really strong character like Oro, but not stronger than him, like Itachi? Itachi is just cooler than Oro. He's nothing but a pedophile gimp (or used to be) who has a lame purpose in life.

Edit : And no, I'm not an Itachi fanboy. But, I'd rather fawn over Itachi, than Oro is all I'm saying.

[Ryllharu]

Again, I was making a suggestion that a lot of Itachi fanboys are fanboys because Itachi is so strong. He is cool, but he's not some invincible, unstoppable force. Neither is Oro, but he's really strong in a similar way Itachi is. I know why there aren't any Oro fanboys, because he IS a "a pedophile gimp (or used to be) who has a lame purpose in life." I was just hoping to persuade some recent joiners from joining the army of Itachi fanboys and find a more unique character for a favorite (one that probably isn't the strongest character, that's too DBZish).

I'm just sick of every single thread turning into an Itachi thread. What happened to the 684+ post Itachi thread where all the fanboys used to hang out together? All too many threads lately have been "OMGZ!!! NARUTO IS NO CHANCE TO DEFEAT ITACHI!!!!! ITACHI WILL MANGEKYOU THEM ALLZ AND END IT NOW!!!!! ITACHI TOTALLY WILL PW0NZR SASUKE!!!" Yes, I am thoroughly aware this is a exaggeration, but it is sadly not that big of one.

I'm not going to reply to any responses to this message unless they are actually about chapter 230, to prevent this from becoming too much of an Itachi thread (yes, I know I started it). Whoever wants the last word on this little issue I've brought up can have it.



Note: the comparison to DBZ is not necessarily an insult. Admit it, you know you watched it too.

[Tofu #2]

dbz is the shit and you all know it.

[Assertn]

you know.....sasuke could very well become the next biggest villian of the series....
perhaps the "last boss" so to speak....

[tuggumkee]

Just to mention didn't Gai leave before kakashi? to look for lee... i can see him coming in before kakashi gets there, just to surprise. Esp. since Gai hasn't done any major fighting yet, its a very viable possibility

[Assertn]

wait he did? i dont remember gai leaving.....

edit: xtort if you dont like it then dont post here anymore i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: Ryllharu
Again, I was making a suggestion that a lot of Itachi fanboys are fanboys because Itachi is so strong. He is cool, but he's not some invincible, unstoppable force. Neither is Oro, but he's really strong in a similar way Itachi is. I know why there aren't any Oro fanboys, because he IS a "a pedophile gimp (or used to be) who has a lame purpose in life." I was just hoping to persuade some recent joiners from joining the army of Itachi fanboys and find a more unique character for a favorite (one that probably isn't the strongest character, that's too DBZish).

I'm just sick of every single thread turning into an Itachi thread. What happened to the 684+ post Itachi thread where all the fanboys used to hang out together? All too many threads lately have been "OMGZ!!! NARUTO IS NO CHANCE TO DEFEAT ITACHI!!!!! ITACHI WILL MANGEKYOU THEM ALLZ AND END IT NOW!!!!! ITACHI TOTALLY WILL PW0NZR SASUKE!!!" Yes, I am thoroughly aware this is a exaggeration, but it is sadly not that big of one.

I'm not going to reply to any responses to this message unless they are actually about chapter 230, to prevent this from becoming too much of an Itachi thread (yes, I know I started it). Whoever wants the last word on this little issue I've brought up can have it.



Note: the comparison to DBZ is not necessarily an insult. Admit it, you know you watched it too.

I'm just saying that if I were to choose between JUST Itachi and Oro, it would be Itachi because of said reasons.

The Itachi thing isn't that bad anymore though. Everyone's all gone past the Itachi fixation, and back toward Kyuubi Naruto nut hugging. You and I know that the Kyuubi crap is WAY more overrated here than Itachi ever was. It always has been, and will be, until somebody manages to get past it. Hell, even when Kisame overcame the chakra,people were still deifying it.

The DBZ thing is an insult, to people who got tired of the formula. (read thread to learn what it was)

[GotwootNewbie]

Originally posted by: Hotsuma

People who want Sasuke to become evil.. Dream on. It's not going to happen. So far, everybody in Naruto who's fought against him has ultimately changed their ways. I think it's lame that they do, because a kid yaps his mouth, but oh well.



No its not lame. In naruto the charaters are acually HUMAN with real emotions. I mean look at Zabuza(sp?). He was evil he killed for fun he called himself a demon. But near the end he died crying because his friend haku died. Protecting him and everyone else. I think this style of story telling is more real then some of the other idiot badies out there. Who have no real purpose other then to kill and cause chaos.

[Hotsuma]

You think it's real. I don't think it's enough. Whatever.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Ryllharu
2) I've really really seen enough of the endless Itachi fanboys. Yes, he's powerful. Yes, he can probably destroy most of the chunnin and several jounin single handedly. Yes, the whatever-its-called-I-don't-want-to-bother-to-spell-it-anymore-super-sharingan is really really powerful and I don't want to hear anymore about that either. Itachi fanboys have begun to use the Mangekyou sharingan as an excuse, to say that Itachi will never lose. Itachi has blatantly stated he CAN'T beat more than one sennin level ninja.
just wrong. even without the mangekyou sharingan, itachi can pretty much wipe the floor with everyone that has been introduced except for the sannin. the reason why itachi is never gonna lose to anyone is because the only person who can and will beat him is sasuke. if that doesn't happen then sasuke's entire storyline goes to shit. also, what's wrong with not being able to beat more than one sannin level ninja? sannins are pretty much hokage status in terms of over skill/power. being even able to beat one of them is incredible.



3) If anyone should be fawning over a really strong character, it should be Oro. He, crippled, but with a little help from a jounin level, took on the other two sannin to a stalemate. And has killed a Hokage (it was an old one though). In Sarutobi's defence, and Oro's I guess, Sarutobi killed two hokages himself in that battle. Oro with not cursed hands is one of, if not the most powerful characters so far. I still hate him though...


Stupid Itachi fanboys, we don't even know the extent of Sasuke's lvl 2 seal...
actually, you're stupid. if you talk so highly of orochimaru, then why don't you think about when orochimaru said that itachi is even stronger than he is? also, orochimaru did not end in a stalemate in that sannin fight. he lost. kabuto got the shit kicked out of him and so did orochimaru. don't try to ignore the facts when they are right in front of you. sorry to break your bubble but itachi is the strongest character right now.

also, what does sasuke's lvl 2 seal have anything to do with this? do you think level 2 seal will be enough to beat itachi? no, idiot, of course not. sasuke is obviously gonna realize that this quick method of getting stronger isn't the right way to become truly strong. if sasuke does beat itachi with the level 2 seal, then all of that stuff kakashi told him and naruto's ability to change people's hearts will all go to waste. i don't know how you're not even thinking this through.



Originally posted by: Ryllharu
Again, I was making a suggestion that a lot of Itachi fanboys are fanboys because Itachi is so strong. He is cool, but he's not some invincible, unstoppable force. Neither is Oro, but he's really strong in a similar way Itachi is. I know why there aren't any Oro fanboys, because he IS a "a pedophile gimp (or used to be) who has a lame purpose in life." I was just hoping to persuade some recent joiners from joining the army of Itachi fanboys and find a more unique character for a favorite (one that probably isn't the strongest character, that's too DBZish).
why is this dbzish and why do you need persuade anyone from being an itachi fan? don't be mad cuz your favorite character is either an idiot or a weakling (you probably like rock lee).



I'm just sick of every single thread turning into an Itachi thread. What happened to the 684+ post Itachi thread where all the fanboys used to hang out together? All too many threads lately have been "OMGZ!!! NARUTO IS NO CHANCE TO DEFEAT ITACHI!!!!! ITACHI WILL MANGEKYOU THEM ALLZ AND END IT NOW!!!!! ITACHI TOTALLY WILL PW0NZR SASUKE!!!" Yes, I am thoroughly aware this is a exaggeration, but it is sadly not that big of one.
the fact is, the only way to beat itachi is via mangekyou sharingan. is there ANY other technique that can counter/defeat it? no. it's like how the sealing technique was the only way to beat kyubi (i'm not saying itachi is strong as kyubi, i'm just making a comparison between which technique is needed for a certain person). and don't bring up gai's dumbass method of fighting against sharingan users.



I'm not going to reply to any responses to this message unless they are actually about chapter 230, to prevent this from becoming too much of an Itachi thread (yes, I know I started it). Whoever wants the last word on this little issue I've brought up can have it.
respond back, i know you're itching to.

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: GotwootNewbie


Originally posted by: Hotsuma

People who want Sasuke to become evil.. Dream on. It's not going to happen. So far, everybody in Naruto who's fought against him has ultimately changed their ways. I think it's lame that they do, because a kid yaps his mouth, but oh well.



No its not lame. In naruto the charaters are acually HUMAN with real emotions. I mean look at Zabuza(sp?). He was evil he killed for fun he called himself a demon. But near the end he died crying because his friend haku died. Protecting him and everyone else. I think this style of story telling is more real then some of the other idiot badies out there. Who have no real purpose other then to kill and cause chaos.

yes it is quite lame. and boring in the long run.

@ hotsuma. maybe we are dreaming but if he doesnt this series will suck really bad. sasuke cut all ties to konoha when he left if he comes back now and everybody forgives him i will seriosuly kill kishimoto.

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya


Originally posted by: GotwootNewbie


Originally posted by: Hotsuma

People who want Sasuke to become evil.. Dream on. It's not going to happen. So far, everybody in Naruto who's fought against him has ultimately changed their ways. I think it's lame that they do, because a kid yaps his mouth, but oh well.



No its not lame. In naruto the charaters are acually HUMAN with real emotions. I mean look at Zabuza(sp?). He was evil he killed for fun he called himself a demon. But near the end he died crying because his friend haku died. Protecting him and everyone else. I think this style of story telling is more real then some of the other idiot badies out there. Who have no real purpose other then to kill and cause chaos.

yes it is quite lame. and boring in the long run.

@ hotsuma. maybe we are dreaming but if he doesnt this series will suck really bad. sasuke cut all ties to konoha when he left if he comes back now and everybody forgives him i will seriosuly kill kishimoto.

Thank you. I'm glad somebody gets the picture.

Badass guy : "I must kill everything! The world sucks!" (or anything anti-hero)
Naruto : "No! You can't kill! It's just not right! Change your ways!"
Badass guy who is no longer badass : *cries* I'm sorry, I was wrong.
Naruto : "Let's go eat some ramen."


Villains are meant to stay villains. Neji was MUCH cooler as a "villain." Gaara was more character as a bad guy. (but when he came back, he was still fairly cool, because of how dramatic it was) Zabuza was an AWESOME bad guy who had all the right parts to being a good villain. Until Naruto came in and pussified him.

Maybe I'm just a cynical person. who knows.

[PSJ]

i agree on neji, i dont care about zabuza since he was going to die anyway but i still think gaara is badass even tho he is a good badass. i just hope naruto wont suceed this time with sasuke cause sasuke is seriously much better as an evil character. he was a real pussy when he started to turn evil and in the whole process of it but now once he got some more strength and is evil he is cooler and i think he is better as a character if he is evil. there are far to many good guys and to less evil guys.

[Hotsuma]

I actually think Sasuke made a pretty good good guy. When he took the blow for Naruto against Haku, I thought it was a pretty cool thing to do. "I don't know why... My body just acted on it's own... Idiot, Naruto.."

That was a great scene.

[PSJ]

i didnt like that at all, sasuke was portraid(sp?) as a badass from the begining but when he jump in in front of naruto he just seemed like a weakling i didnt like it at all. to think i actually thought he was cool in the begining. oh well thats probably because he was a badass. i liked the first curse seal scene much better, when he broke zaku's arms for a moment there he turned into his old badass character again oh how sweet that was. really ruthless thats how i want sasuke.

[bumbo]

doesn't sasuke start to look like itachi ? ^^


http://mangateux.free.fr/dd.png

[kaigan]

well, they are brothers....

everyone knows itachi is bad ass but he will not be the strongest as the story progresses. as for sasuke, i want to see itachi kill him slowly and painfully cause he's a fking prick. even ROCK LEE is cooler than him.

[Elessar]

Originally posted by: Shadow-arrows


Originally posted by: tuggumkee


Originally posted by: Elessar
"You are someone who knows the same pain of loneliness that I do. And.. that pain makes a person stronger. Because of that, by severing these bonds... I will gain even more strength."

I was expecting Sasuke to win and join Oro - but after that sentence I don't think that option is valid anymore. Sasuke will, just like Gaara, learn that fighting for someone is better than fighting for yourself. Maybe he will beat Naruto and then be caught off-guard by Gaara or will have to face all the survivors of the expedition team + sand in a group fight when they fight for Naruto - and his very own sake. But what is imho certain is that by the end of this fight, Sasuke will have understood just like Neji and Gaara did.

Now this is a interesting prediction, I would really like to see that. It would fit the theme of Naruto very well and also keep sasuke on the good side.(plus i think it would make this arc incredible)

I agree with this, i see kakashi rallying all the gennins, sand and bringing them to interupt the fight, which by this time will be at the climax where sasuke and naruto will almost kill each other, (after powering up to the max), by doing some big mega jitsu. then after being interupted, they have this long talk about how the leaf will not make sasuke weaker (they did defeat the five sounds). however, before sasuke makes up his up, kabuto shows up aducts him and brings him to the snake man he will brain wash him and take over his body before he gets rescue haahahahaaa!! (j/k) but i do agree that sasuke will see the light ,i feel a character like him in this situation will go back to the good side sooner or later

I don't think he will come back. He will get his eyes opened and realize the truth and what he did. But with at least 1 of his comrades dead because of him he will chicken out and run away. Either into the woods or to Oro, but with a whole different attitude. Not just "going there and joineing him". Knowing that Oro just wants to use him, knowing that the curse seal is shit, and trying to use Oro himself to learn what Oro can teach him (jutsu wise) and then escape.

[basey44]

wow i dont think ive seen a manga discussion thread this longi/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

[Eurasian]

Originally posted by: kaigan
well, they are brothers....

everyone knows itachi is bad ass but he will not be the strongest as the story progresses. as for sasuke, i want to see itachi kill him slowly and painfully cause he's a fking prick. even ROCK LEE is cooler than him.

i was gonna say that too. that they r brothers.

HEY! u make rock lee sound as if he's not cool. rock lee is the coolest guy!! but killing sasuke YAH!!!! but i rather have sakura dead...

[~Greed~]

Remember the fight: Sasuke/Naruto vs. Garaa? Remember how Garaa would keep tranfoming part by part, until he become the giant Shuusaku (or whatever the name was) creature? Naruto is just beginning to transform. The double-edge sword is probably: once Naruto reaches the final-form, like transforming into a giant Kyubi creature, he will probably will go berserk and lose his mind.

Btw, whoever said all of these recent fights only consist of Taijutsu is because: those fights consist only of Genins! Genins don't even suppose to know how to preform ninjutsu; Sasuke is one of the few special case. Kakashi even praised Saskue for able to use ninjutsu as a genin when they first met. (Uhh... the 'get the two little bells' and pass the test)

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: basey_69
wow i dont think ive seen a manga discussion thread this long

But nine pages of it was just bickering.

[Uchiha Barles]

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
i didnt like that at all, sasuke was portraid(sp?) as a badass from the begining but when he jump in in front of naruto he just seemed like a weakling i didnt like it at all. to think i actually thought he was cool in the begining. oh well thats probably because he was a badass. i liked the first curse seal scene much better, when he broke zaku's arms for a moment there he turned into his old badass character again oh how sweet that was. really ruthless thats how i want sasuke.

He chidoried naruto right in the lung, and was aiming for his heart. that was pretty fucking ruthless, and badass. He didn't show any kind of remorse either. In fact, he was smiling, and I don't think he was even using the cursed seal to make him even more evil.

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: ~Greed~
Remember the fight: Sasuke/Naruto vs. Garaa? Remember how Garaa would keep tranfoming part by part, until he become the giant Shuusaku (or whatever the name was) creature? Naruto is just beginning to transform. The double-edge sword is probably: once Naruto reaches the final-form, like transforming into a giant Kyubi creature, he will probably will go berserk and lose his mind.

Btw, whoever said all of these recent fights only consist of Taijutsu is because: those fights consist only of Genins! Genins don't even suppose to know how to preform ninjutsu; Sasuke is one of the few special case. Kakashi even praised Saskue for able to use ninjutsu as a genin when they first met. (Uhh... the 'get the two little bells' and pass the test)

no.........

all ninjas are taught ninjutsu and genjutsu at the academy. In fact naruto's final exam was bunshin no jutsu, which is a genjutsu. It's also been said that its extremely rare for a ninja to exist that isnt capable of performing ninjutsu or genjutsu (that being lee).

kakashi was surprised sasuke was able to perform fire ninjutsu, which is a higher level than what most of the other genins can perform.

And naruto and sasuke DID use other jutsus in their fight.......naruto used kage bunshin when he was falling, and sasuke used fire to lure naruto in a trap. They also both used rasengan and chidori. But it was established from fighting that none of those were very effective.

[basey44]

yea but none of em used a genjutsu, although theres no point in naruto using one now sasukes sharingan is better

[Assertn]

which is exactly why naruto wouldnt be able to get away with a crafty stunt like hengeing into a shurken like he did against zabuza

[GotwootNewbie]

Yeah those eyes of his are so cheap :\

[Shadow-arrows]

yeah, but he still can't see whats behind him... naruto could probable use that

[Baranthal]

What purpose does Sasuke going to Orchimaru actually serve the series. The entire point of Sasuke giong to Oro is for Oro to take over his body. Other then probably the mangekou abilities, Sasuke has a fully developed Sharingan. Why would Oro train him up endlessly if he just wants his body? He doesn't need Sasuke to know powerful jutsus, just have his bloodline ability developed. If Sasuke goes over to Oro, ya might as well justkill the character.

[bumbo]

Originally posted by: kaigan
well, they are brothers....


but brother don't necessary have te same 'psycopath' face XD

[basey44]

so... not long now till next chapter i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

[primalspas]

Originally posted by: Baranthal
What purpose does Sasuke going to Orchimaru actually serve the series. The entire point of Sasuke giong to Oro is for Oro to take over his body. Other then probably the mangekou abilities, Sasuke has a fully developed Sharingan. Why would Oro train him up endlessly if he just wants his body? He doesn't need Sasuke to know powerful jutsus, just have his bloodline ability developed. If Sasuke goes over to Oro, ya might as well justkill the character.

Well, that is the idea. Sasuke doesn't know about oro's plan to take over his body just that oro will train him to make him stronger. Plus oro will wait to train saskue because he wants to take over his body when it is at full potential, that way he won't have to train the body himself.

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: Uchiha Barles


Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
i didnt like that at all, sasuke was portraid(sp?) as a badass from the begining but when he jump in in front of naruto he just seemed like a weakling i didnt like it at all. to think i actually thought he was cool in the begining. oh well thats probably because he was a badass. i liked the first curse seal scene much better, when he broke zaku's arms for a moment there he turned into his old badass character again oh how sweet that was. really ruthless thats how i want sasuke.

He chidoried naruto right in the lung, and was aiming for his heart. that was pretty fucking ruthless, and badass. He didn't show any kind of remorse either. In fact, he was smiling, and I don't think he was even using the cursed seal to make him even more evil.

yes i said in my post before that one that i want him to stay evil like he is now so he can go to oro. and i dont want him to be pussified by narutos speech. thats what i meant i just didnt go that far in my analysis of sasuke if i may call it that.

as for the itachi - sasuke thing. of course brothers can look alike but those crazy eyes show cause of the emotion behind them. sasuke will shortly have the same ideals as itachi does. thus he will become itachi.

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: Baranthal
What purpose does Sasuke going to Orchimaru actually serve the series. The entire point of Sasuke giong to Oro is for Oro to take over his body. Other then probably the mangekou abilities, Sasuke has a fully developed Sharingan. Why would Oro train him up endlessly if he just wants his body? He doesn't need Sasuke to know powerful jutsus, just have his bloodline ability developed. If Sasuke goes over to Oro, ya might as well justkill the character.

oro cant take over sasuke's body for a few years still, so in the meantime, he trains him

[PSJ]

yea i hope thats what kishimoto has thought up for him. and naruto hiding with jiraiya getting training and sakura trains under tsunade(hopefully) so all of them become better and more like the sannin. that would be kickass. only if that happens a time jump can be done.

[Knives122]

the only thing I like to happen with that plan though, is that Sasuke doesnt turn out like Oro so much as the other will turn out like their teachers

[PSJ]

i think sasuke will become more and more like itachi instead of oro. but the other 2 already got qualities that are very similar to their teachers.

[RasenDori]

Originally posted by: Hotsuma


Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya


Originally posted by: GotwootNewbie


Originally posted by: Hotsuma

People who want Sasuke to become evil.. Dream on. It's not going to happen. So far, everybody in Naruto who's fought against him has ultimately changed their ways. I think it's lame that they do, because a kid yaps his mouth, but oh well.



No its not lame. In naruto the charaters are acually HUMAN with real emotions. I mean look at Zabuza(sp?). He was evil he killed for fun he called himself a demon. But near the end he died crying because his friend haku died. Protecting him and everyone else. I think this style of story telling is more real then some of the other idiot badies out there. Who have no real purpose other then to kill and cause chaos.

yes it is quite lame. and boring in the long run.

@ hotsuma. maybe we are dreaming but if he doesnt this series will suck really bad. sasuke cut all ties to konoha when he left if he comes back now and everybody forgives him i will seriosuly kill kishimoto.

Thank you. I'm glad somebody gets the picture.

Badass guy : "I must kill everything! The world sucks!" (or anything anti-hero)
Naruto : "No! You can't kill! It's just not right! Change your ways!"
Badass guy who is no longer badass : *cries* I'm sorry, I was wrong.
Naruto : "Let's go eat some ramen."


Villains are meant to stay villains. Neji was MUCH cooler as a "villain." Gaara was more character as a bad guy. (but when he came back, he was still fairly cool, because of how dramatic it was) Zabuza was an AWESOME bad guy who had all the right parts to being a good villain. Until Naruto came in and pussified him.

Maybe I'm just a cynical person. who knows.


if i remeber correctly neji was a whiny bitch back then and didnt do anything cooler then whats hes doen recently. neji back then was a calm collected person until someone mentioned the main family...then he was just an asshole. im glad that he changed, cause hes still calm and cool. he just isnt an ass anymore. needless to say, i prefer this neji.

on topic: i hope next chapter either seals the deal with this fight or ends with a real cliff hanger (you know one thats not like "oh my god! he powered up! see you next issue!")

[Souryusen]

I'd like to see the next chapter have an ending that's not "power-up" related. But if they're gonna whip out the level 2 with Sasuke I think they're gonna wind up doing just that... another "ooh aah" chapter.

I wouldn't mind seeing Lev 2 Sasuke smack Kyuubi down (though I doubt that'll be the case). If there was something left of Naruto after the beatdown perhaps he could switch back to the sneaky shit that he's known for... that'd be more entertaining than 2 super-powered adolescents bumping heads over and over again.

[Lefty]

We'll if there is anyhting left of Naruto's mind left in that body. He's so powered up right now he's lost him self in the power and has gone into auto fight mode or somthing along those lines. Sasuke IS going tpo have to beat him down till he can't get back up again. I feel sorry for who ever interupts this fight first.

[Eurasian]

oh man, if there's another clifffhanger...i don't know what i'll do.

oooh~ if kakashi's the one who interferes he getta see naruto in his kyubi form. cuz he hasn't really yet. he just felt the kyubi presence during the zabuza battle and he didn't get to see naruto use the kyubi chakra during the chuunin exam.

[Hotsuma]

Then Kakashi would say to Naruto. "Snap the fuck out of it!" And Naruto pops back into reality.

[DeathscytheVII]

i thought DBZ was a cool series. Not a Great series (which would actually include logic, a good storyline, good character development, and a monster soundtrack), but nonetheless a very entertaining series to watch. If you weren't in awe from Goku turning SSJ ON Freeza and its all like "AAHHHH!!!!", then yeah, watever. I just thought it was COOL to finally have that sunbitch freeza on his ASS screaming for his life.

Ah i think the real reason i hate DBZ is because how the english dubbers literally ruined it for me i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif stupid dubbers!

[Fobik-X]

~Greed~ posted this(sorry dont know how to do the quote thing)
"Remember the fight: Sasuke/Naruto vs. Garaa? Remember how Garaa would keep tranfoming part by part, until he become the giant Shuusaku (or whatever the name was) creature? Naruto is just beginning to transform. The double-edge sword is probably: once Naruto reaches the final-form, like transforming into a giant Kyubi creature, he will probably will go berserk and lose his mind."


I was thinking the same thing about kyubi, I seem to remember a time where kyubi said that even if naurto died he would not. But, if kyubi were always around thru out history the whole world would be destoried I figure kyubi needs to devour a human soul to take form. He is slowly doing that to naurto it seems. Also people say that naruto's kyubi form got weaker cause he was not able to deflect attacks with chakura alone. Well i think this has to do with out kyubi's chakura was being used in the first battle Naruto was more or less taken over by anger then it released. Kakashi was worried cause the seal may of broke. But, it didnt yet naurto didnt call for it either. Remember how ero-sanin tought naurto how to control kyubi? In every instance since then naruto has talked to the fox before he came out. But, this last time he didnt and it took more form of kyubi, and part of the seal seemed of of break aswell.

One last thing has to do with the differance in how kyubi was sealed and how the 3rd sealed the 1st, 2nd, and oro's arms. Kyubi is a huge deamon fox with great power that was easily stronger then any of these 3 people. I would bet that the way the seal worked on the others would not be posible because of this, that he has to seal it into somthing not just into the belly of death.

[Ryllharu]

Originally posted by: Fobik-X
~Greed~ posted this(sorry dont know how to do the quote thing)
"Remember the fight: Sasuke/Naruto vs. Garaa? Remember how Garaa would keep tranfoming part by part, until he become the giant Shuusaku (or whatever the name was) creature? Naruto is just beginning to transform. The double-edge sword is probably: once Naruto reaches the final-form, like transforming into a giant Kyubi creature, he will probably will go berserk and lose his mind."


I was thinking the same thing about kyubi, I seem to remember a time where kyubi said that even if naurto died he would not. But, if kyubi were always around thru out history the whole world would be destoried I figure kyubi needs to devour a human soul to take form. He is slowly doing that to naurto it seems. Also people say that naruto's kyubi form got weaker cause he was not able to deflect attacks with chakura alone. Well i think this has to do with out kyubi's chakura was being used in the first battle Naruto was more or less taken over by anger then it released. Kakashi was worried cause the seal may of broke. But, it didnt yet naurto didnt call for it either. Remember how ero-sanin tought naurto how to control kyubi? In every instance since then naruto has talked to the fox before he came out. But, this last time he didnt and it took more form of kyubi, and part of the seal seemed of of break aswell.

One last thing has to do with the differance in how kyubi was sealed and how the 3rd sealed the 1st, 2nd, and oro's arms. Kyubi is a huge deamon fox with great power that was easily stronger then any of these 3 people. I would bet that the way the seal worked on the others would not be posible because of this, that he has to seal it into somthing not just into the belly of death.


I'm pretty sure Kyuubi will die if Naruto does. That was the entire motivation for Kyuubi to help Naruto get the necessary chakra to summon Gamabunta the first time. Chapter 95, page 16 "If you die, I die too eh? To threaten me like this...what guts" Also in 229 Naruto blasted back Sasuke's Katon with pure chakra, if anything has been indicated by these last chapters, Kyuubi's aid has only gotten better, or Naruto has gotten better at pulling chakra out of him. Naruto hasn't talked to Kyuubi everytime he's used the red chakra, and in fact, the transform time (this time) he did.

[Inazuma Kami]

But who'll win ? Naruto or the Sasuke ? (Is Kyuubi an option ?)

[PSJ]

yea kyuubi will die if naruto dies. thats why he is helping naruto.

[kAi]

Ah i think the real reason i hate DBZ is because how the english dubbers literally ruined it for me stupid dubbers!
then watch it in japanese...



But, if kyubi were always around thru out history the whole world would be destoried I figure kyubi needs to devour a human soul to take form.
kyubi has been alive for a long time...but he is most probably like a summoned creature...eg gamabunta, manda, etc...he is in another place...and needs to be summoned to this world to do any damage..which is what might have happened. but this is still needed to be explained.