Chrno Crusade discussion

[lasaire]

Hi, all. I just finished watching this very heart-rending series, and when I checked out the old discussion thread, it was just an argument about subbing vs. liscensing. I'd love to get a real discussion going, but if the old argument comes back I'll be a bit brassed off.

First of all, I must admit I was a bit unstatisfied by the ending. What were the creators of the series trying to say? The scene where Rosette cries about being afraid to die reduced me to tears, and though she and Chrono have a peaceful look on their faces when they are found, I don't think it balances that. Did the writer want to say we're all afraid to die?

And, if we're all afraid to die, what about the message about salvation? In the end, neither Satella or her sister, Rosette or Joshua is really saved. Joshua lives, but his mind is irrevocably broken. Sister Kate, who is the head of Rosette's branch of the order, and judging from her dealings with the Council of Elders, a very influential nun, declares that she'll give up her faith, and the angel Remington gives up his wings to become a Sinner. I can't help but look at this as a very disheartening message that no one is saved by faith, or that God truly has no hand in saving the sufferings of mankind, especially since the very final scene has Aion still appearing to be alive and plotting against the Church on Earth.

I looked up the Prophecy of Fatima online. Here (http://goodnewschristianministry.org/fatima-prophecy.htm) is a link for a synopsis and here (http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html) is the Vatican's analysis including the actual text of Sister Lucia, the main recipient of the vision. It turns out that the Seven Apostles, including Joshua and Azmaria, are NOT at all included in the sealed third secret of the prophecy. The actual third part is a plea by Mary for the salvation of Russia (which occurred with the dissolution of the Soviet Union) and a warning about an assassination attempt on the Pope. (Which did actually happen, as is mentioned in the closing text of the last episode. It highly influenced Pope John Paul II's policy that led to the conversion of Russia and the fall of the Soviet Union.) So, what were the writers of the series then trying to say about Rosette and the other Apostles? Particularly since Azmaria is the only one that remains completely true to the faith; even Rosette is swayed by Aion's manipulations.

I'd love some thoughts on this.

[Uzumaki Naruto]

i agree, i mean the series was great the ending was kinda crap and left u wondering wtf is going to happen next, and u really dont know what the writers is trying to say. i mean it talks about gods and sinners and shit but what are they trying to tell us? nvm what i just said, right now im kinda lost but i do agree with what u said lassair

[lasaire]

I agree.

I'm also completely mystified by the Head of Pandemonium. What the heck is it? It seems to symbolize the division between Heaven and Hell and the balance of power in hell itself, yet it's not said to be Satan's head, in fact Satan himself is barely ever mentioned, and certainly doesn't appear.

And also, Chrno and Aion appear to be called Sinners not because they fell from Heaven, but because they rebelled against the order of Hell/Pandemonium. In most Christian belief systems, Lucifer and the other demons were originally angels who sinned against God and were cast into Hell; ie they were the Sinners. I'm definately confused.

[askar_trent]

You're right, I think a lot of things were unfinished, I didn't understand those things also, but maybe that was like a way to force us to read the manga in order to understand it... I don't know, but that happens in a lot of anime based on manga, and that really bothers me because is too difficult to find those manga unlicensed or easy to find in my country.... Oh, sorry, I'm getting out of theme... I really don't know what do they mean by leaving all those things like that....I felt pity for the poor Joshua.... he never managed to meet Rosette after he was "healthy", and you're right, that was like to say nobody got to obtain the salvation..... I hope I can read the manga someday....

[Munsu]

I read someplace that the ending in the manga is completely different...

Spoilers of what i read...



In the end Chrno breaks the contract with Rossette so she could live with Joshua and for him to be able to regain is powers in order to defeat Aion in another "dimension" or whatever it is called... I think it ends there with Chrno promissing to be back (it ends with Rossette waiting for him to get back)
I read something like that... I didnt actually read the manga

[thundrakkon]

I wasn't too thrilled about the ending either. It left so many questions unanswered, but then again, many of the Anime nowadays leave the endings with unanswered questions, so it is nothing new. I feel that religion in the series is loosely used as background for the story. Kind of like NGE uses religion loosely for its background info.

Chrno Crusade is a good series, just too many open issues in the end. Maybe they will make an OVA to answer some of these questions.

If anything, I feel the writers wanted to make the ending startling and unexpected, so not as much religion based.

Also, Rosette was a very scandalous person with her side slit dress, and there was a pervert inventor at the church. The writers appeared to want to write an entertaining story, not an accurately religious one.

In the series, I think the sinners were known as such because they went against the order of nature. Aion looked like he wanted to bring chaos to earth as he rebeled against Pandemonium.

If I were to interpret the ending, I would say that god only observes the people on earth, and does not directly get involved. He is either too busy elsewhere, or he probably wants to see how the people of Earth deal with problems. Aion is like Lucifer, trying to influence the world and events into evilness. In the end, all things will become chaos and be destroyed because human nature is inherently evil. That was why Rosette was easily influenced and influenced the masses against the Mandalan Order. Also, the masses are weak mentally and physically. The people were easily influenced by evil, and the only ones able to fight the sinners were the other Pandemonium and Chrno.

Anyway, I believe you should not take the story too religiously. It is there for entertainment, and should be left just that. I definitely have more faith in humanity than many of these writers (in other Anime as well; ie NGE, Gilgamesh, etc.), and believe that the future will be a peaceful place with advanced technology... A bright and happy place.

[lasaire]

I also hope the future will be peaceful, and I believe we as people have equal capacity for good and evil within us, it's up to the individual to use that capacity how he chooses.

As for Rosette, I think her side-slit dress was part of her uniform when she joined the Militia, at least that's when it changes, though I don't know if you can see other militia sisters wearing the same thing.

I think I may have to read the manga for this.

[lasaire]

I have another question, and I'll knock this thread to the top of the list by posting again to ask it.

Why is Aion so much stronger than Chrno in the present time, even though they have both lost their horns?

Aion doesn't have a contractor to give him a source of astral like Chrno has Rosette's clock. And, in the flastbacks to the revolt in Pandemonium, it's pretty clear that in their original states, Chrno was quite a bit stronger than Aion. Remember when Aion shielded himself from Duke Dufoe's blow? He had a trickle of blood rolling down his forehead and looked pretty banged up. Yet Chrno managed to parry a good number of the Duke's blows, AND had an explosion of power that earned him the nickname the "100 Million Killer."

Yet, now they both don't have horns, and Aion has no source of astral like Chrno, what gives??

[Uzumaki Naruto]

ive been thinking the same thing, when they both had thier horns chrno was alot stronger then aion IMO but i think aion is stronger bc chrno is to kind hearted and aion doesnt think the same way so he can basicly do just bout what ever he wants

[thundrakkon]

I think Aion had a different type of power compared to Chrno, so it appeared that Chrno was stonger.

What I think happened to Chrno is when he was about to die, his powers were almost diminished. Magdala gave up her life to save him, so his powers were only revived to a certain point. Also, he stayed by her coffin for years, probably diminishing his powers to the point where he had to stay in child form to conserve power. Also, he lost his horns to Aion.

As for Aion, he might have broken off his horns, but he still had them. He might of drawn some power for them or even re-attached them at some point. He also had Chrno's horns, so he could have drawn some power there, too.

[Mae]

I was also pretty depressed by the end of this series (finally finished it). The end seemed to say that God exists but doesn't really care about individuals.... And I really hate endings where the majority of the main characters die...

About the inconsistancies, I also really wondered about Aion. After he tore off his horns the fox (or cat?) demon said that she was making the clock to replace them so he could live, but then Chrono went off with the clock, and Aion is never given anything to replace his horns. Oh, well.

And as for the general confusion with the plot, I think a lot of it can be attributed to the fact that the person writing it was trying to portray Christianity without being very familiar with it. I've noticed this in a few other series too. Clamp, in particular, takes a lot of Christian religious symbols WAY out of context.

I understand that there are not a lot of Christians in Japan and the religion is considered foreign and somewhat exotic. As a result there are a lot of mistakes when it is portrayed, and they tend to mix other religions in with it by accident or because they think no one will notice anyway (in their target audience probably true). Pandemonium's head? I have no idea where that came from. Probably they just made it up.