How strong is kakashi really?

[Assassin]

we all know that kakashi is one badass shinobi, and can own the majority of jounin from all villages. but when he encountered oro during the prelims, they made him seem like nothing.

however, later on when itachi appears, he's able to hold off that shark dude (forgot his name), and with just a kagebunshin which has half the normal chakra (Im not sure if it was mentioned, or if i just imagined it, but i think that shark guy is as strong as, if not stronger then oro). And at the same time, he faced itachi and fared pretty well imo (up untill itachi whiped out his sharingan). if it hadn't been for the mangekyo (sp) sharingan, i think kakashi could've atleast held itachi till ANBU arrived.....and thats no small feat.

granted that after the his "fight" with kabuto he trained to get back in shape, but he couldn't have improved enuff to all of a sudden be a match for S-rank criminals.

so, do u think we've seen kakashi's true strength yet? after all, he is a famous ninja feard by many shinobi and he keeps surprising us by taking on strong and stronger opponents.

[chambers]

yes i think we have. look how much ownage itachi dealt out to sasuke, compared to kakashis (not including the contents of mangekyou of course!). sure kakashi is going to improve and i dotn think either naruto or sasuke will ever surpass him, i think in all honesty he will be dead before that happens. it just seems to me like kakashi is there to be sacrficed.

[Board of Command]

I don't think Kakashi is that strong. Itachi didn't kill him because he didn't go to Konoha to fight. Itachi is a reasonable guy, and killing Kakashi is just a waste of time for their real mission. Also, Kisame was barely fighting because I think he knew it was just a bunshin, so it's not worth the effort. Kakashi barely beat Zabuza.

I think Naruto will surpass Kakashi, he's getting personally trained by Jaraiya.

[Lenas]

Naruto will surpass Kakashi because he's being trained by Juraiya? You seem to forget that Kakashi was trained by the 4th, who apparently surpassed Juraiya himself.

*edit* Also, it's been said that Kakashi is an "elite genius" (in the words of Gai), and we all know Naruto is no genius. That alone makes it seem even more unreasonable. Kyubi or not.

[Krbadass]

Stronger then he shows hopefully

[Aeon]

Besides the fodder ninja's Kakashi hasn't hasn't beaten anybody important. Sure he beat Zabuza but Zabuza won the all important first match when he trapped him in that bubble, you usually don't get a second chance in a ninja fight. So I do think he has showed his true strength already cause I doubt he would holding back against Zabuza/Kisame/Itachi.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Assassin
we all know that kakashi is one badass shinobi, and can own the majority of jounin from all villages. but when he encountered oro during the prelims, they made him seem like nothing.

i believe kakashi would fight til his death if the situation depended on it, but i think the creator, kishimoto, purposely made kakashi freeze up like that. that suggests orochimaru's status and strength. this is important because so far, we've seen that kakashi is the strongest character introduced and that has fought. this tells us that orochimaru is someone to be feared, even by a very talented jounin like kakashi.



however, later on when itachi appears, he's able to hold off that shark dude (forgot his name), and with just a kagebunshin which has half the normal chakra (Im not sure if it was mentioned, or if i just imagined it, but i think that shark guy is as strong as, if not stronger then oro).

kisame, the shark guy, is not as strong as orochimaru. in fact, he is way weaker. kisame's strength hasn't been determined, but i doubt that he's stronger than kakashi or gai. however, i don't think he is weaker than zabuza because introducing a similar character from the same village as zabuza is unnecessary. i'm guessing that he's an upgraded zabuza.



And at the same time, he faced itachi and fared pretty well imo (up untill itachi whiped out his sharingan). if it hadn't been for the mangekyo (sp) sharingan, i think kakashi could've atleast held itachi till ANBU arrived.....and thats no small feat.

not really. kakashi was trying to keep up, but it was inevitable that he would be outskilled by itachi. kakashi had already suggested that itachi's movements are hard to keep up even for him and his sharingan and this was before itachi used mangekyou sharingan. i highly doubt that someone orochimaru fears will be matched by kakashi.



granted that after the his "fight" with kabuto he trained to get back in shape, but he couldn't have improved enuff to all of a sudden be a match for S-rank criminals.

i'm almost certain that kakashi can beat kisame (it won't be easy obviously), but i am also almost certain that he has no chance against itachi. i'm sure of these things especially about kisame because of the way characters are introduced in naruto. people who are amazingly strong have been introduced with a reputation (3rd & 4th). however, kisame's introduction was a bit weak to be considered as a major threat like itachi.



so, do u think we've seen kakashi's true strength yet? after all, he is a famous ninja feard by many shinobi and he keeps surprising us by taking on strong and stronger opponents.

personally, i think we've seen most of what kakashi can do. even though he is an excellent ninja, it only looks like he isn't that strong because characters like orochimaru and itachi have shown their powers and they are just far more talented and skilled. i just hope that kakashi gets more screen time and whoops kabuto's ass.

[Pyron]

i hope that kakashi is stronger. it seems right now he is useless because of guys like oro and itachi. he's still a hype ninja and hopefully he gets stronger

[Sensei Jon]

I believe he is pretty much at his limit right now. With the way the anime is going the enemies are getting stronger but so are the students, there is really no need for Kakashi to become stronger to go along with the plot. Of course I could be wrong since I don't read the manga and I am not saying that I don't want to see him get stronger, I personally wanna see him kick some more ass.

[woofcat]

I belive Kakashi is not at his limit becuase he is getting soft. He is also No Itachi, Itachi is the most powerful charature interduced into the world of Naruto so far. I think that Naruto will surpass Kakashi becuase he is being tought by THEE Ero-sennin.

[thundrakkon]

Kakashi is still relatively young. I believe he has potential to become stronger, and since he has a Sharingan eye, he will learn more. I am sure that Jiraiya was probably really strong at the same age as Kakashi is now, but at 50+, I believe he must have improved exponentially. With age, comes wisdom and more power for the truly talented characters.

[Rek]

I think we have seen the most of kakashi.... he really doesn't have that much more use. Naruto and sasuke are gonna become chuunins, and have their jounin tutors (ero-sennin, and kakashi, respectively) but its mainly gonna be naruto and ero-sennin for a bit. Kakashi has taught sasuke all he knows, pretty much. Except puppy summons, but I think sasuke will have a unique animal summon, like a lizard, or some sort of firey thing... I really don't know.

[lasaire]

Actually, if you check the official character bios, they have grids detailing the strengths of team 7 in the same way that Kabuto's nin cards detail strengths. Kakashi's highest marks were in strategy and stealth, but he still had a large room to grow. I personally think that Kakashi hasn't shown his true strength.

In the fight with Zabuza, the first fight caught him off guard and rusty. Remember, "It's been a long time since I've been in a situation this dangerous."

Now, in the second fight with Zabuza, at the point when Haku had been killed by jumping in front of Kakashi's chidori: Kakashi had been wounded by Zabuza twice, though obviously they weren't particularly deep wounds. He'd also used a fairly large amount of chakra -- using the Sharingan, his dog summons, and the chidori (which even he can only do 4 times daily.) Zabuza, however, had only used his mist jutsu, and one usage of the water clones. So, in comparison, Zabuza was doing much better in chakra and physical condition than Kakashi. However, what happens when Haku dies?

Kakashi gets serious, is what happens. All of a sudden Kakashi drops the act and scores two very rapid and crippling blows on Zabuza. He takes out both of Zabuza's arms in a matter of seconds. Even when Zabuza tried to counter with a blow from his sword, Kakashi simply jump-kicks him. Zabuza, being a ruthless killer, had been serious from the beginning. However, Kakashi is set up as a much kinder character, who didn't want to kill Zabuza until he had no choice. Thus, he fights at less than his total level for most of the fight.

In summary, we haven't seen all of Kakashi's potential yet.

[Rek]

...what more is there to be said?

other than I think your slightly wrong on the "I don't want to kill you part," as much as, "this is bad ass training for me". because remember, before, he had no qualms about killing zabuza (yes, I can see the future, and your gonna die) right before haku did his needle thing.

[Xein]

Well I think everyone likes kakashi and I also think he's really badass just cuz of how cool he is, and to top it off he's done some really cool stuff in battle... It just seems tho that the anime is taking the focus off him and being more focused on the kids and the uber strong characters like itachi, jirya, oruchimaru, etc. I think he could improvse and become even stronger but he doesn't train and it doesnt seem like there's a reason for him to be stronger. I wanna see him kick some ass but I have a feeling he's gonna be like one of those characters that is strong for a while then they just kinda forget about (like piccolo in dbz). But yeah I think we've seen most of his skills and he does kick ass... hand to hand with zabuza he totally fucked him up, not to mention his intelligence and strategies... I do hope we get to see him fight some more though.

[Gods_Son]

After killing Haku, Kakashi shows basically his full potential. That's why he says something like "this is the meaning of true strength." He's strong, just not a match for someone like Orochimaru.

[Uchiha Barles]

I would have like to have seen some more fights with the sannins, and kakashi and people comparable to him. It kinda bothers me when you're 80+ episodes into a series and still don't have a clear idea as to what the how strong the characters really are. They did a good job on the genin, but not really anyone else.

[LostAngel]

I hope there is more to Kakashi but I think they are holding off on him because they plan to use him for something else later. Just to compare his level to some of the other characters that seem pretty damn invincible he cant compare in strength. Because I think in the first fight with Zabuza we saw his limit, he over did his and if he where to fight against someone like Orchi, Itachi, he would probably get tired quickly as they are just warming up. But I still hope to see a more powerful side of Kakashi.

[Stoopider]

I don't doubt Kakashi is reasonably good. But I think he's lacking in fighting for prolong periods. And he doesn't move unnecessarily. He probably has poor chakra.. especially I think mantaining the sharingan, probably eats up his chakra so his recovery rate is slower.

It seems so far Kakashi's killer move is the Chidori, which doesn't seem like such a great devastating move. But some how, i've got the feeling that Kakashi isn't meant to be an all out fighter. Like Lasaire said.

Kakashi is probably the kinda ninja that grope's in the darkness and strikes without the enemy noticing. (The chidori was created to be a assassination weapon, but I think it's too noisy and bright. Heheh) Rather than a Naruto's all noisy and showy kind of fight.

Thats the thing about Naruto universe, a person's fighting ability cannot be displayed by ammount of chakra's unlike DBZ. Hence Shikamaru is poor in chakra, but uses his abilities diligently and intelligently.

[Mae]

A fight is not just like rock, paper, scissors, where if you have a stronger hand you automatically win. There are a lot of other issues as well including taking advantage of the environment you are fighting in (both of Shikamaru's fights in the test), your individual skills vs. the skills of the person you are fighting (Shino's fight) and your ability to work with your team (the third exam fight with the shadow ninjas). There are traps, poisons, and ambushes. There's also a fair amount of pure luck involved. You could have the ability to summon Kyubi itself, but it won't do you much good if someone sneaks up behind you and puts a knife in your back.

Could Naruto become stronger than Kakashi in a purely physical sense? Sure. Could he beat him in a fight? Maybe in 20 years.

Basically I don't think pure strength is all that important. Although to address the topic, I think Kakashi is damn strong. Yeah, he was intimidated when Oro showed up to get Sasuke, but he stood his ground. Although Oro laughed you'll notice that he took off instead of chancing the confrontation and sent Kabuto in his place later.

[Rek]

personally I think Oro and kakashi have some sort of history... maybe in the anbu days or something. But they seemed much more familiar then say, his greeting to Itachi.

and I hope your not saying that kakashi would be weaker in 20 years.... as far as we can tell, the only age hindered ninja was sarutobi, and he was 80. I think kakashi's about 20, so in 20 more years, that'd but him at least 10 years below ero-sennin, who is still fighting strong.... tho, to contradict myself, obviously age is a factor there, because oro has switched bodies once already. Tho that could have just been testing the jutsu.

I'm a little indecisive this morning

[Uchiha Barles]

This is a quote from Mae

"Could Naruto become stronger than Kakashi in a purely physical sense? Sure. Could he beat him in a fight? Maybe in 20 years."

I think Naruto is definately going to become stronger than kakashi, and it's not going to take 20 years, probably not even 10. He has to. There are pressures forcing him to grow stronger, most notably akatsuki. He's going to need to be able to take on people that kakashi can't. There'll probably be more such pressures as the anime continues.

[Eurasian]

an earlier discussion: kisame stronger than orochimaru. kisame is definitely weaker than orochimaru. orochimaru fears itachi but he never had to worry about kisame.

i think kakashi reached his limits already. he's strong and stuff, sure, but during the fight w/ zabuza and it was when naruto started to release the kyubi chakra, kakashi was desperate to reach naruto (i suppose to stop the kyubi from escaping or whatever) so he decided to use his last resort - chidori. back then, i thought chidori was ultra impressive, but now in the anime, it's really not all that.

i agree with uchiha barles that naruto has to improve quickly. naruto cannot keep depending on jiraiya or whoever to save him from itachi and the rest of the akatsuki. during times of desperation, naruto always prevails. GO NARUTO!!!

[Masakari]

Eh... a couple things.

No one can say Kakashi has shown his true strength. As the constantly appearing Naruto theme goes, you're strongest when you have someone precious to protect. If you take a gander at Kakashi's last fight with Zabuza, especially the end part, he pretty much knocks him senseless. Kakashi is obviously an above-average jounin (which makes you wonder why there's such a gap of power between him and the other s-level ninjas) Kakashi is seen often enough that he as a character will devlop (there are underlying mysteries behind him that need to be cleared in the story) and usually in stories like this, as the character devlops their strength is devloped (even if it's not shown, they will at least reveal new strength).

And Naruto will progress past Kakashi, logically, he has nine-tails which which has probably the greatest amount of chakra around, and the more he learns to use it the stronger he gets. Also Naruto will have to devlop past Kakashi in the given storyline. I'm hoping that storyline doesn't encompass many years and a few generations, so if that isn't the case Naruto will pass Kakashi at some point in the not so distant future.

[Alai]

Originally posted by Mutata


kisame, the shark guy, is not as strong as orochimaru. in fact, he is way weaker. kisame's strength hasn't been determined, but i doubt that he's stronger than kakashi or gai.

kisame the shark guy is way weaker. But, he strenght hasn't been determined yet. =) ok that makes. i'm sure you have some other proof that he is weaker even though his strength hasn't been determined yet. But, you probally don't.

Originally posted by Mutata


personally, i think we've seen most of what kakashi can do.

I don't know about you Mutata but I haven't seen Kakashi do over a thousand techniques. Which by the way he is known as "the man who copied more than 1000 techniques, Kakashi the copy ninja." So I really don't think we have seen everything Kakashi can do. I do hope he gets more time in the show too though =)

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Alai
Originally posted by Mutata


kisame, the shark guy, is not as strong as orochimaru. in fact, he is way weaker. kisame's strength hasn't been determined, but i doubt that he's stronger than kakashi or gai.

kisame the shark guy is way weaker. But, he strenght hasn't been determined yet. =) ok that makes. i'm sure you have some other proof that he is weaker even though his strength hasn't been determined yet. But, you probally don't.

Originally posted by Mutata


personally, i think we've seen most of what kakashi can do.

I don't know about you Mutata but I haven't seen Kakashi do over a thousand techniques. Which by the way he is known as "the man who copied more than 1000 techniques, Kakashi the copy ninja." So I really don't think we have seen everything Kakashi can do. I do hope he gets more time in the show too though =)

about kisame's strength, it's a FACT that he isn't as strong as orochimaru or itachi. don't even question that. and never did i say i had proof of kisame being weaker or stronger than kakashi, i just doubt that he is. it's just a guess.

also, where did i ever say that we've seen EVERYTHING kakashi can do. don't put words in my mouth, buddy. and do you actually evaluate the capabilities of a character on the number of techniques they've performed? nice try on your subtle smart ass talk, though.

EDIT: response to below:

spoilers are not allowed in the naruto anime forum. no exceptions. please fix post =D

btw, there are no spoiler tags.

[ThyName]

just think teh other s- rank ninjas hav all heard of kakashi. so hes really stong and plus the whole whatever move ur doin i can do it too thing is really strong. just think how strong gaara is, he who has killed jounins since he was 8 or so, and then think of when gaara was gonna kill rock lee and then guy just swatted away gaara's desert coffin. then once u put that together then u think that kakashi is stronger than gai and the only reason that gai and kakashi hav an even record is cause gai is the only person that kakashi sharingan doesn't work on. so to other people he is even more powerful.


warning <start spoiler> gaara defeats the bone dude in the manga and this was the guty that the s-rank orochimaru wanted to become because he was invinsible. so there <end spoiler>


can someone remind me how to do the spoiler box again i forget

[Alai]

Origionally posted by Mutata


buddy. and do you actually evaluate the capabilities of a character on the number of techniques they've performed?

Um it never says he has preformed every technique only copied them. And the answer to your question is no.

Only an idiot would evaluate the capabilities of an anime character on the number of techniques they've preformed. More so I wouldn't judge Him because I don't even know all the techniques he can do. We haven't seen even 10% of them if he can do over a thousand. Well got to go I have so many other character to evalutate and so little time.

[Mut]

lol, do you read things after you type?



Originally posted by: Alai
More so I wouldn't judge Him because I don't even know all the techniques he can do. We haven't seen even 10% of them if he can do over a thousand.

you said that you wouldn't judge him because you haven't seen him do even 10% of them if he can do over a thousand.

so, ok... let's forget that real quick. what if kakashi DID perform all the 1000 techniques he knows (i'm assuming that he knows how to do them if he copied them)? if you saw him do all those techniques would you be able to judge him then? wait, then that would be judging a character based on the number of techniques one has performed! =O

and posting quotes isn't hard.

[Jessper]

Originally posted by: Alai
Origionally posted by Mutata


buddy. and do you actually evaluate the capabilities of a character on the number of techniques they've performed?

Um it never says he has preformed every technique only copied them. And the answer to your question is no.

Only an idiot would evaluate the capabilities of an anime character on the number of techniques they've preformed. More so I wouldn't judge Him because I don't even know all the techniques he can do. We haven't seen even 10% of them if he can do over a thousand. Well got to go I have so many other character to evalutate and so little time.

Alai is obviously a troll and I wouldn't bother feeding him... Stop trying to stir the pot and post something constructive please. I hear of the mystic lands of forums with the ability to ignore certain posters, oh how I long for the day.

[Alai]

I've posted lots of constructive things. I'll wait till Mutata posts something "constructive" until I post something else constructive.

[ThyName]

come on guys lets play nice

[Mut]

currently @ 12:59 am pst on 7/2/2004, i've put up 2399 contructive posts. don't tell us an excuse just cuz you can't come back with a counter argument i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[Alai]

A counter argument? I would hardly Think a statement like "alai is a troll" needs a counter argument. Mutata might think so, but Alai doesn't. You see Mutata I'll let you in on a little secret that i'm sure everyone above the age of 6 knows. Trolls aren't real... So if there not real that means i'm not one.

As for posting things constructive I have this to include.

Con struc tive
Serving to improve or advance; helpful: constructive criticism.

Now judging by the meaning of this word I have posted nothing constructive.
Origionally posted by Mutata


i've put up 2399 contructive posts
And I doubt many people believe that you have either =)

[Jessper]

Taking everything so literally to try and anger people, thats what makes you a troll, a forum troll kinda like the one in some childs story that lived under the bridge and attacked people for no reason, it is what is known as a metaphor. But alas, I'm responding doing what he wants... I fell for it, though I won't again don't worry.

[asdf-man]

I think we've seen all Kakashi can do at least most. He probably pulled out his strongest stuff in the Zabuza fight because afterwards he was barely able to do a Kage Bunshin as a bluff.

He's a bit overrated in my opinion. I think he's only equal to Gai and he cannot own any Jounin. Each Jounin we've seen in Konoha surpasses him in at least 1 area aside from ninjutsu in which he is a specialist as Gai is a specialist in taijutsu. Kurenai is a specialist in genjutu, Asuma is a quite well rounded character and better than Kakashi in some areas. So Kakashi isn't an all-powerful Jounin sure he may be able to beat them aside from Gai which he would. I personally think Kisame can beat Kakashi judging by Itachi's statement "You will take to long" then when he stepped in place of Itachi "SInce it's me instead of Kisame it won't be as long" or something liek that. So they are about equal strength or at least enough to make it a long fight. Aside from Kisame I think Hyuga Hiashi is probably stronger also. He wiped out almost as many people as Kakashi beat in the whole Chuunin Invasion thing in 1 attack and wasn't even tired.

[ThyName]

but when kakashi was fightin kisame he was using a shadow clone which is only 1/2 of kakashi's power. and this half of power was able to deal with kisame whereas asuma couldnt even hold up kisame's sword.

[Gods_Son]

Originally posted by: asdf-man
I think we've seen all Kakashi can do at least most. He probably pulled out his strongest stuff in the Zabuza fight because afterwards he was barely able to do a Kage Bunshin as a bluff.

He's a bit overrated in my opinion. I think he's only equal to Gai and he cannot own any Jounin. Each Jounin we've seen in Konoha surpasses him in at least 1 area aside from ninjutsu in which he is a specialist as Gai is a specialist in taijutsu. Kurenai is a specialist in genjutu, Asuma is a quite well rounded character and better than Kakashi in some areas. So Kakashi isn't an all-powerful Jounin sure he may be able to beat them aside from Gai which he would. I personally think Kisame can beat Kakashi judging by Itachi's statement "You will take to long" then when he stepped in place of Itachi "SInce it's me instead of Kisame it won't be as long" or something liek that. So they are about equal strength or at least enough to make it a long fight. Aside from Kisame I think Hyuga Hiashi is probably stronger also. He wiped out almost as many people as Kakashi beat in the whole Chuunin Invasion thing in 1 attack and wasn't even tired.

Kakashi is stronger than Kisame, and most other jounins. Even though Gai is an idiot, he's really strong, being at equal level with him doesn't make Kakashi look bad at all. Kurenai and Asuma definately aren't about as strong as Kakashi, that's why he had to come and save the two. Kisame will be a better opponent than Zabuza, but I still think Kakashi would be able to take him down. As for Hyuga Hiashi, he's the one that's overrated, he did one kaiten and everybody is orgasming over it. He really hasn't shown anything that impressive yet.

[ThyName]

yes, i would pay to see kakashi fight kisame but im guessin that when sasuke fighhts itachi then naruto will take down kisame. since this would make naruto use moves that dont gather a lot of chakra since kisame's sword swallows chakra. very nice

[Mut]

Originally posted by: asdf-man
I think we've seen all Kakashi can do at least most. He probably pulled out his strongest stuff in the Zabuza fight because afterwards he was barely able to do a Kage Bunshin as a bluff.

He's a bit overrated in my opinion. I think he's only equal to Gai and he cannot own any Jounin. Each Jounin we've seen in Konoha surpasses him in at least 1 area aside from ninjutsu in which he is a specialist as Gai is a specialist in taijutsu. Kurenai is a specialist in genjutu, Asuma is a quite well rounded character and better than Kakashi in some areas. So Kakashi isn't an all-powerful Jounin sure he may be able to beat them aside from Gai which he would. I personally think Kisame can beat Kakashi judging by Itachi's statement "You will take to long" then when he stepped in place of Itachi "SInce it's me instead of Kisame it won't be as long" or something liek that. So they are about equal strength or at least enough to make it a long fight. Aside from Kisame I think Hyuga Hiashi is probably stronger also. He wiped out almost as many people as Kakashi beat in the whole Chuunin Invasion thing in 1 attack and wasn't even tired.

1. kakashi is not overrated.
2. gai is very strong.
3. asuma and kurenai cannot be stronger than kakashi.
4. hyuga hiashi is the most overrated person ever. i know that he cannot beat kakashi or gai.

[Alai]

I agree with Mutata hyuga hiashi could be beaten by both Kakashi and Gai. I'm sure Kakasi could find some way having over 1000 techniques to beat Hyuga Hiashi. And Gai, Well i'm pretty sure he can open all 8 gates so if he had to he could kill Hyuga Hiashi pretty quick.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Alai
I agree with Mutata hyuga hiashi could be beaten by both Kakashi and Gai. I'm sure Kakasi could find some way having over 1000 techniques to beat Hyuga Hiashi. And Gai, Well i'm pretty sure he can open all 8 gates so if he had to he could kill Hyuga Hiashi pretty quick.

you're not understanding this yet. kakashi knowing 1000 jutsus is not really what makes him strong. it's the fact that he can use those jutsus well and according to the situation. a random ninja could know 4000 techniques but if he doesn't know how and when to properly use them, he's completly useless. do you understand?

[chambers]

yeah Random Ninja technique knowledge>j00

[ThyName]

all those techinques simply mean that he has a huge arsenal of weapons at his disposal. the majority of them could be gay like his 1000 yrs of pain or the one where he buries sasuke in the sand up to his head.

[jing]

I think Hyuga Hiashi isn't Ninja material, he could really beat the fuck outta someone, but he's not ninja material. Just the way he dresses makes me feel like hes a master that doesn't have to make big movements (climb tress, throw a kunai, just comes in and kaiten's everything). Kakashi would win though, he is quick witted and knows how to use jutsus at the right moment.

[Willow]

Basically...

Kakashi is a smart SOB. So even if he IS weaker, he has more going for him strategically than most Ninja. Against a stronger opponent, he could just fight them in an indirect way, and smack them down with a creative fashion.

[Pyron]

as of right now..i still think kakashi is the strongest (good) ninja of konoha besides the sannins. yeah..give it some time and naruto and sasuke will surpass him in a lot of areas but not right now. also gai has to be pretty strong since their fight record against each other is pretty close.
sure kakashi knows a lot of techniques but i have to agree with mut@t@ when he stated something about knowing many techniques doesn't make you strong...its how you use them.

[kakash11]

You know what'd be cool? If after kakashi woke up he became extremely motivated and trained a lot. I bet the days when he was an ANBU member he was stronger than he is right now. So what if he went back to that state, the state when he was really strong? That would be awesome and i really hope we havent seen Kakashi's true strength yet. That would be such a waste to the coolest character ever i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif
Sorry bout that off topic comment but here ill say something on topic.

I think that Gai would defeat Kisame easier than Kakashi. Since Kisame's sword eats chakra, Gai could defeat him with taijutsu (unless i mis-read the anime subs and didnt know that taijutsu uses chakra...) what do you guys think? Go ahead burn me i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: Pyron
as of right now..i still think kakashi is the strongest (good) ninja of konoha besides the sannins. yeah..give it some time and naruto and sasuke will surpass him in a lot of areas but not right now. also gai has to be pretty strong since their fight record against each other is pretty close.
sure kakashi knows a lot of techniques but i have to agree with mut@t@ when he stated something about knowing many techniques doesn't make you strong...its how you use them.

technically......gai is better by 1 win

and in all honesty.......i have no idea how they would compare to hyuga hiashi
neither gai nor kakashi inherited a bloodlimit, so they shouldnt be able to take on a master who does have one....at least one as powerful as the byakugan anyway

gai i cant see beating hiashi, mainly because hiashi's defense would give him a strong advantage over gai's taijutsu

as for kakashi.....well out of the 1000s of abilities he has, we've only seen like, a dozen or less...so i have no idea

[Death BOO Z]

Hiashi is highly overestimated... the only thing he's done so far is to take down some sound ninjas.. and comon', let's be honest, who can't take down the sound ninjas? the only guy who was 'defetead' by them was Shikamaru, heck, it might be possible for Sakura & Ino tag team to beat one of those guys by themselves...

Kakashi is a super genious who was a chunin at age 6, and the head of the ANBU, Gai is a super hard worker who even without any special talent managed to rise to the spot of being Kakashi's eternal rival.
what did Hiashi do so far? he was born into a noble family and got beaten by his small brother. PATHETIC.

saying that Hiashi is stronger than Kakashi\Gai (and heaves's sake, i remember people saying that he could beat Itachi) is as absurd as saying that Sakura could beat Lee with her booksmarts, or that Shino could beat Asuma. It's stupid and it's wrong.

here's the jounins how i see it, from the most powerfull down.

Sannin (Itachi as well)
Kakashi and Gai
Anko
Morino Ibiki
Hizashi
Hiashi
Asuma
Ino\Shika\Chou adults
Kuranei
Gekku Hyate
Ebisu

i'm leaving out a few (Shizune, Raidou, the final's referee) becuse they haven't apearred enough in the anime. and i'm basing the spots of Anko and Ibiki on instinct, not from the manga, i'm just guessing that being head of the ANBU, Anko was somewhat good, and by his overall neatness, Ibiki is no pushover as well...

[Assertn]

for one thing.....who ever said anko has anything to do with anbu? she does NOT deserve to be way up there on the list.....i would say she fits right below asuma

hiashi and hizashi are supposed to be about equal strength.....i believe neji even stated that

and ibiki's a pansy......i would put him down below hayate i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[Pyron]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure


Originally posted by: Pyron
as of right now..i still think kakashi is the strongest (good) ninja of konoha besides the sannins. yeah..give it some time and naruto and sasuke will surpass him in a lot of areas but not right now. also gai has to be pretty strong since their fight record against each other is pretty close.
sure kakashi knows a lot of techniques but i have to agree with mut@t@ when he stated something about knowing many techniques doesn't make you strong...its how you use them.

technically......gai is better by 1 win

and in all honesty.......i have no idea how they would compare to hyuga hiashi
neither gai nor kakashi inherited a bloodlimit, so they shouldnt be able to take on a master who does have one....at least one as powerful as the byakugan anyway

gai i cant see beating hiashi, mainly because hiashi's defense would give him a strong advantage over gai's taijutsu

as for kakashi.....well out of the 1000s of abilities he has, we've only seen like, a dozen or less...so i have no idea



gai is winning? i forgot...so i guess gai is the best ninja we're seen so far in konoha

[r3n]

how is gai the best ninja weve seen so far in konoha. what about sarutobi

[Kale Ironfist]

Originally posted by: Death BOO Z
he was born into a noble family and got beaten by his small brother. PATHETIC.

he got hit by the Hyuuga taijutsu style by Hizashi because he didnt realise his intentions. Hiashi can kill Hizashi easily (that Hyuuga Curse Seal looks like it causes permanent brain damage...)

[Pyron]

Originally posted by: r3n
how is gai the best ninja weve seen so far in konoha. what about sarutobi


hello do you not read..
out of all the "good" ninjas ALIVE right now. i stated that kakashi is probably the strongest. and AssertnFailure pointed out that Gai is 1 up on Kakashi so since he's winning...i'm saying he's the strongest right now.

[Mut]

don't believe in that record of 50-49. as you saw during the konoha invasion, gai and kakashi keep records of the stupidest things. actually, just gai.

[Sharigan_User]

I think that kakashi is stronger, that they're not just showing it right now, maybe with some new person, they will show how strong he really is. They said that he's really one strong ninja. maybe in the next season or whatever they will show how strong he really is. Like he has some kind of past or something. I highly doubt that, but its possible.

[complich8]

it'd be less entertaining to watch if naruto and sasuke and all of them were constantly being upstaged by the jounins.

Just like kisame showed that he didn't have to worry about naruto (by eating his leaking kyuubi chakra before naruto could do anything with it), I think the jounins in general are just on a different playing field than the kids are.

Kakashi is probably around the same level as kisame -- if he and kisame fought one on one, I think kakashi would probably take it ('cause sharingan is just nifty like that). I think Gai would have more trouble with kisame (because of all the water techniques, Gai would be harder pressed to match them without the kakashi-style arsenal of counters and such), and of course itachi would own him too one on one, but then that's not really particularly fair either (itachi owns pretty much everybody except jiraiya one on one).

I'd say kakashi and gai are just different styles, and not good to compare to each other. But clearly everyone else has a great deal of respect for kakashi and his opinions, so I think it's safe to assume that he's pretty goddamned strong.

As far as the Hyuuga go, well .... in general they don't seem to play along with the rest of the village. Everything they do is tuned to their unique abilities. I think it's safe to say that Hiashi knows fewer techniques than Kakashi, but I think it's also safe to say that the ones he knows are generally more devestating. For example, the generic punch/kick/stab become "explode your internal organs" "close your tenketsu" and "stab" (there's not much you can really change about stabbing someone i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif). I think the hyuuga style is more of a defensive one though.

In terms of guns, I would say kakashi is a sniper rifle, gai is a cannon, and hiashi is a machine gun, which is to say that kakashi and hyuuga are more specialized to a purpose (assasination of a single target and taking out loads of stupid peons) and gai is more general (he can take out specific targets, he can take out loads of stupid peons, but he doesn't do either quite as well).

[Pyron]

i guess we all agree then that Hiashi, Kakashi and Gai are the strongest 3 right?
out of those 3...debating can only take us so far...i think we won't know until one of them admits their not as strong as the other or until they duke it out

[LostAngel]

As of right now I couldn't say what ninjas are the strongest because there are a lot of ninjas that we haven't seen the full power too. As for Anko, we haven't seen much of what she can do, so it would be hard to judge how powerful she is.

I believe that we have seen Kakashis power because he used his full power with the first fight with Zabuza and didn't even use Chidori. I do think he has lost strength since he was anbu, so they might have him get stronger. I think with the organization that Kisame and Itachi is in, I forgot the name, there are 9 right? So there are 7 more we get to see, and they must all be really powerful, so I am hoping to see all the main Ninjas they have been showing, including the ANBU girl with the purple hair get some good fighting in.

[Pyron]

i know that...but to save you more reading...i stated earlier that i think that these guys are the strongest "good" ninjas of konoha right now besides the sannins...not in the entire series.

[basey44]

back to that gai kakashi record, there is no way that would indicate which is a better ninja, if u think carefully u will remember that one of the contests which i think gai won, (maybe kakashi i cant remember) was rock paper scissors

[Mut]

that never happened.

[Knives122]

just humor him Mut@t@, anyway cant really remeber what basey is talking about so Im just going to tell him to shut up

[fate789]

ths interesting this is that kakashi became a chunin when he was what.. 7 or 8?? thas just insane.. also he is only 28 now and is very skilled.. so i think that kakashi can become VERY strongsooner or later.. maybe even a sannin..

[Mut]

26, close to 27.

[Assassin]

its true about the rock paper scissors thing.....but it wasn't in the anime. it was mentioned (or rather hinted at) by kishimoto during an interview. however, the fact remains, that we can't judge between kakashi and gai based one some stupid record, that only gai keeps track of. as somone said earlier, gai was counting the number of sand nins he knockedout too, and if he won, he would make that part of the record, no doubt.

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: Assassin
we all know that kakashi is one badass shinobi, and can own the majority of jounin from all villages. but when he encountered oro during the prelims, they made him seem like nothing.

however, later on when itachi appears, he's able to hold off that shark dude (forgot his name), and with just a kagebunshin which has half the normal chakra (Im not sure if it was mentioned, or if i just imagined it, but i think that shark guy is as strong as, if not stronger then oro). And at the same time, he faced itachi and fared pretty well imo (up untill itachi whiped out his sharingan). if it hadn't been for the mangekyo (sp) sharingan, i think kakashi could've atleast held itachi till ANBU arrived.....and thats no small feat.

granted that after the his "fight" with kabuto he trained to get back in shape, but he couldn't have improved enuff to all of a sudden be a match for S-rank criminals.

so, do u think we've seen kakashi's true strength yet? after all, he is a famous ninja feard by many shinobi and he keeps surprising us by taking on strong and stronger opponents.

no kakashi struggled with itachi and kisame is nowhere near the strength of orochimaru do you know who orochimaru is?

[Pyron]

Originally posted by: Assassin
its true about the rock paper scissors thing.....but it wasn't in the anime. it was mentioned (or rather hinted at) by kishimoto during an interview. however, the fact remains, that we can't judge between kakashi and gai based one some stupid record, that only gai keeps track of. as somone said earlier, gai was counting the number of sand nins he knockedout too, and if he won, he would make that part of the record, no doubt.




okay now correct me if i'm wrong when i ask.........who besides the sannins are "good guy" strong ninjas? yes we cannot judge which one...kakashi or gai.......is stronger but we can safely assume that their level is about even from what we know using their record as a basis. if one was more stronger than the other...the record we tilt more in favor towards one of them instead of it being about even.

forgive me if i might be repeating over and over...but peoples gots to reads earlier posts

[PSJ]

gai makes everything part of their stupid record for all we know hlaf of it can be who eats faster, dresses faster etc tec. you cant judge anything from that stupid record. and kakashi and gai are nowhere near the level of the sannin and itachi.they can beat guys like kisame. even tho he is an s class criminal like itachi i think the strength of s class can have huge diffrences(sp?)

[Mut]

i just wanna clear something up just in case people don't know this. just because you are an s-class criminal, that does not necessarily mean you are super strong. it just means you've done enough bad stuff to get up on that list.

[kakashi_gurl]

and lenas ur FORGET THAT JIRAIYA TRAINED THE 4TH!!
woah..talk about coincidence....