actual 221 manga discussion

[The Lord of Morning]

for those who want to discuss the manga, not a summery, I am starting a new thread. raw is out and damn dude. . something is definately up with the uchiha clan. i never really hated itachi and now i really like him, at least the old him. remember how he said that the best ninja's are the ones that can police bad ninja's? cant wait for this to get translated

i seriously think something weird was going on. true this is from sasuke's perspective so you really gotta wonder what it is that he DOESNT know, since we are seeing all the bad stuff from his POV. i never bought the itachi is totally bad, a truely bad guy would have waxed his little bro as well, avenger or no. also the fact he didnt kill sasuke in front of the sharkfin guy, beat the crap out of him enough to be convincing.

actually i am glad for this 'flashback' i didnt like the ones rehashing stuff we had already seen but its a good break from the constant battles, we learn more about one of the most interesting characters and about one of the things most debated about.

ok, after reading the inane version. . . WTF. dad is obviously obsessed with something, maybe status of family or whatever but sasuke seems to love his brother even though everyone just talks about itachi.

the comment by itachi, that we have to hate each other to overcome our barriers. it explains the 'hate more' statement, although not the killing every other uchiha. i definatly think he was contacted by akatsuki or came upon them somehow during his missions. he definatly shows a weird attitude, even ignoring his fathers behavior.

[meroko01]

i never bought the itachi is totally bad, a truely bad guy would have waxed his little bro as well, avenger or no. also the fact he didnt kill sasuke in front of the sharkfin guy, beat the crap out of him enough to be convincing.

i always thought itachi wants sasuke to become stronger so one day sasuke would be able to kill itachi and itachi would be able to atone for his sin of killing his own clan ... lol i personally dont like the idea of sasuke beating itachi but sasuke IS one of the main characters ... so just MAYBE xD ...

i saw the raw version but i really cant make anything out of it .. ill wait for it to be translated ...

[jing]

DUDE PPL IT IS TRANSLATED
WWW.NARUTOFAN.COM

[Death BOO Z]

well, it's better than last weeks chapter...

It seems almost clear that all the "Itachi is good, Sasuke is a jerk' theories are probably right at some way...

did anyone understand Sasuke's report card? 1/30? 1/90? what the hell is that?
oh, and who do you think those three guys were in the last pannel? it seems like one of them is an Uchiha...



oh, and I would like to see some of naruto's flashbacks as well, he's the main charecter, for crying out loud

[Lenas]

First place out of the other students.

[ohpeekaboo]

i'm getting amazed at manga's ability to stretch out sasuke's feelings of inferiority about being in itachi's shadow.

i know it's nice to flesh out a characters past, but enough is enough already. would be nice if they'd stop whispering for an entire chapter about special missions and actually give the readers something more than mere speculation...

of course, i'm a little extra bitter because i took the time to work through the chapter in it's raw japanese.. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

but nevertheless..

(and perhaps this is a sign of good writing.. at least, from a commercial standpoint)

i'm left wanting more, again.

[Mut]

now, this thread is awesome. it's not retarded like that other gay 221 thread.

[The Troublesome One]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
now, this thread is awesome. it's not retarded like that other gay 221 thread.

Wow your so cool to use gay as an insult!</sarcasm>

[Naruto_-_Kun]

Well from that chapter im prittty much convinced that itachi is'nt evil. haha and to think some of my friends and i were talking about possibly cases were he wouldnt be evil.

For me this arc just got a whole lot better, everything is coming together, and after that im convinced sasuke must get to orochimaru

[Kalean]

[In case anyone couldn't predict this, there are spoilers here. And if you couldn't predict it, you probably shouldn't be posting on the forums.]

I would say that while conclusive evidence has yet to be presented, this chapter has provided another point for people like me that believe Itachi is not actually evil to harp on. 'Even if it means being hated, that's what being an elder brother is all about.'? Itachi keeps telling Sasuke to hate him with every fiber of his being, in the hopes of driving Sasuke past his own limits, and it looks like that idea was formulating way back then. Some people will find this ambiguous, but to me it says that Itachi loved his brother and was willing to sacrifice any love he could get in return to benefit his brother in the long term, which is quite a high level of brotherly love, although a bit twisted. Then again, they're Shinobi, wishing your loved one to be strong is about the highest wish you can have for them, I suppose. Putting oneself in a position for someone you care about to hate you, knowing that doing so will benefit them the most, is quite a painful thing to do, but it's obvious that at least in the past, Itachi was resigned to that. Perhaps some of the more intelligent people that disagreed with me before will re-consider after this chapter, it seems conclusive to me.

[Naruto_-_Kun]

And yeah, sasuke's dad seems like a bit of an asshole anyway, wat kind of father openly shows more ambition to one of his kids, and just tells the other one to end up exactly the same as the other one...asshole

[XwingRob]

Something is definately going on....

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Kalean
[In case anyone couldn't predict this, there are spoilers here. And if you couldn't predict it, you probably shouldn't be posting on the forums.]

I would say that while conclusive evidence has yet to be presented, this chapter has provided another point for people like me that believe Itachi is not actually evil to harp on. 'Even if it means being hated, that's what being an elder brother is all about.'? Itachi keeps telling Sasuke to hate him with every fiber of his being, in the hopes of driving Sasuke past his own limits, and it looks like that idea was formulating way back then. Some people will find this ambiguous, but to me it says that Itachi loved his brother and was willing to sacrifice any love he could get in return to benefit his brother in the long term, which is quite a high level of brotherly love, although a bit twisted. Then again, they're Shinobi, wishing your loved one to be strong is about the highest wish you can have for them, I suppose. Putting oneself in a position for someone you care about to hate you, knowing that doing so will benefit them the most, is quite a painful thing to do, but it's obvious that at least in the past, Itachi was resigned to that.

or MAYBE... kishimoto is purposely trying to make itachi look like a good guy to trick us. and what was your theory on itachi again? that he didn't kill the uchihas (therefore, innocent), it was someone else and itachi took the blame so that sasuke would chase after him? if you're gonna stick with the innocent itachi theory, tell me who really did it and why. i'm curious.



Perhaps some of the more intelligent people that disagreed with me before will re-consider after this chapter, it seems conclusive to me.
sorry, but that is the stupidest thing to say. sounds like you're trying to be some sort of harvard professor who is trying to correct people.

and... those two guys at the end look like they want a fight with itachi. i hope itachi buries them in the dirt.

EDIT: btw, look at that lame 221 thread. locked to hell.

[JFDrummer430]

Ive got a bit of a new theory, although it doesnt have much to back it up. On page 8, there is the low evil laugh (Fu Fu Fu). Isnt that Oro's laugh? We cant see who Mr. Uchiha is talking to, nor can we see his silouette (sp?). Im thinking maybe this is Oro, before leaving the leaf. Again, this is a very weak theory, but Im thinking maybe Itachi knew Oro was going after the Uchiha ability, and rather then see it in the hands (or eyes i guess) of Oro, he decided to slaughter his family. Seems like a rather extreme way around things, but hey... weak theory.

Regardless of how dumb you guys may think this whole thing is, Im pretty certain that the laugh was Oro's.

[RasenDori]

Originally posted by: JFDrummer430
Ive got a bit of a new theory, although it doesnt have much to back it up. On page 8, there is the low evil laugh (Fu Fu Fu). Isnt that Oro's laugh? We cant see who Mr. Uchiha is talking to, nor can we see his silouette (sp?). Im thinking maybe this is Oro, before leaving the leaf. Again, this is a very weak theory, but Im thinking maybe Itachi knew Oro was going after the Uchiha ability, and rather then see it in the hands (or eyes i guess) of Oro, he decided to slaughter his family. Seems like a rather extreme way around things, but hey... weak theory.

Regardless of how dumb you guys may think this whole thing is, Im pretty certain that the laugh was Oro's.

if this was the case then itachi accedently led the sharingan to orochimaru
as for the laugh, thats a general evil laugh in manga

i find myself leaning towards the itachi good guy arguement now...although i dont want to, but the comment about hating each other gives that sense.

i had an interesting converstion with a friend that has an older brother and i take back what i said in the 220 discussion about me being an older brother and not understanding why a brother would want his sibling to hate him...i cannot relate to itachi because i only have a younger sister...and as my friend told me, the brother 2 brother relationship is different than the brother 2 sister relationship...

so...i could see this as a form of tough love...but dont want to buy it...so if itachi is a good guy...we wont find out the truth for a long time 'cause this is sasukes perspective of things...and he only knows what itachi wants him to know

just wanted to add that these flashbacks are asking more questions than they are answering...thats always fun

[Stoopider]

Good episode. Intruiging. But still very in the dark about whats happening. This is a real refreshing episode from the continous fighting non-stop of the episodes before.

But still from the episode. About him needing to be arrogant and selfish to achieve being the best, from that, he seems no different from Orochimaru doing everything to attain it all.

But likewise... we are all still in the dark here.

[Uzumaki Naruto]

kinda boring, i mean its good that there getting into sasukes past but i wanna c some dam action wanna c naruto kik sasukes ass with kyubi power or something

[XwingRob]

You think next week will be the last flashback?(Not that I'm complaining or anything)

Also because of these flashbacks, I get the feeling that this will be the last time we see Sasuke as good. Kishimoto is just having a farewell to the "good" Sasuke.(Ok, I know that last sentence didn't make sense, I'm frickin tired)

[Naruto_-_Kun]

Xwing i agree, its showing what hes been through. (the good and the bad) and at the end we will see him as evil, however theres also a probability this could end up being a naruto showing sasuke he still has a family in konohana and can get strong there....But im leaning more towards the last time (at least for a couple of years) we see sasuke as being a good guy.

[DeluxSkillz]

more flashbacks yay! [/sarcasm] looks like next week will also be a flashback well done kishimoto you just totally fucked yourself, now i actually have something bad to mention about naruto, this is just stupid bring on the fight they are just retelling us what we already know the next chapter better be good because these flashbacks are getting on my nerve and itachi is still evil i don't care what kind of sweet flashbacks they give about him he remains evil he killed the entire uchiha clan and that's that appointing a different murder is wrong and i'll hate kishimoto forever if he makes up some bullshit crap like that

[RasenDori]

Originally posted by: Uzumaki Naruto
kinda boring, i mean its good that there getting into sasukes past but i wanna c some dam action wanna c naruto kik sasukes ass with kyubi power or something

dude... calm down...this manga isnt just about action, you would think that getting 6 months of action would make someone kinda bored of that by now...the manga needed to slow down for the sake of story porgression

[Hakeem_21]

Just beacuse Itachi talkes to his brother doesnt mean that he is a good guy!

Itachi secret mission can be the killing of his clan.

This chapters flashback was better than the last weeks but i hope the next weeks flashback is the last cause the story has to move on.

Death B: You are right they should make good flashbacks like these about Narutos past,when they do flashbacks about Naruto i want atleast 10 flashback chaptersi/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

[Terracosmo]

This chapter was as awesome as the last one. I'm very anxious to find out more about how this ended up.



Originally posted by: DeluxSkillz
more flashbacks yay! [/sarcasm] looks like next week will also be a flashback well done kishimoto you just totally fucked yourself, now i actually have something bad to mention about naruto, this is just stupid bring on the fight they are just retelling us what we already know the next chapter better be good because these flashbacks are getting on my nerve and itachi is still evil i don't care what kind of sweet flashbacks they give about him he remains evil he killed the entire uchiha clan and that's that appointing a different murder is wrong and i'll hate kishimoto forever if he makes up some bullshit crap like that

Can you please just go and drown you goddamn imbecile?

[Kalean]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@


Originally posted by: Kalean
I would say that while conclusive evidence has yet to be presented, this chapter has provided another point for people like me that believe Itachi is not actually evil to harp on. 'Even if it means being hated, that's what being an elder brother is all about.'? Itachi keeps telling Sasuke to hate him with every fiber of his being, in the hopes of driving Sasuke past his own limits, and it looks like that idea was formulating way back then. Some people will find this ambiguous, but to me it says that Itachi loved his brother and was willing to sacrifice any love he could get in return to benefit his brother in the long term, which is quite a high level of brotherly love, although a bit twisted. Then again, they're Shinobi, wishing your loved one to be strong is about the highest wish you can have for them, I suppose. Putting oneself in a position for someone you care about to hate you, knowing that doing so will benefit them the most, is quite a painful thing to do, but it's obvious that at least in the past, Itachi was resigned to that.

or MAYBE... kishimoto is purposely trying to make itachi look like a good guy to trick us. and what was your theory on itachi again? that he didn't kill the uchihas (therefore, innocent), it was someone else and itachi took the blame so that sasuke would chase after him? if you're gonna stick with the innocent itachi theory, tell me who really did it and why. i'm curious.

One doesn't have to know who's guilty to discover who's innocent. Kishimoto is more than capable of throwing Itachi's alignment into question while still keeping that a mystery. Unless you're trying to say he's a bad writer...





Perhaps some of the more intelligent people that disagreed with me before will re-consider after this chapter, it seems conclusive to me.
sorry, but that is the stupidest thing to say. sounds like you're trying to be some sort of harvard professor who is trying to correct people.

and... those two guys at the end look like they want a fight with itachi. i hope itachi buries them in the dirt.


I merely meant that there are some people who stubbornly cling to their precious evil Itachi, and some who actually try to discover the truth. Rasen Dori converted to the 'light side' after this chapter, albeit hesitantly, and I thought the chapter would be enough for many others. It would seem I was wrong.

As for those two (Three? There's an Uchiha member standing behind them, possibly just a bystander.) people that want to talk to Itachi... If they want a fight, they're going to die, and we all know that, so I hope they actually say something interesting before he murders them.

[Elessar]

Originally posted by: DeluxSkillz
i'll hate kishimoto forever if he makes up some bullshit crap like that

Oh my god, that will really make him get nightmares.
Image, there is this dude living at the other end of the world, who doesn't pay you a single buck for your works because he downloads all the stuff from the internet without buying the domestic releases afterwards - and he doesn't like it.
I am sure that will drive Kishimoto into some serious depression, really.

If you don't like it - don't read it. No one is forcing you to do so.

I would love it so much if in 225 Orochimaru starts a second attack, in 230 killed the last kown konoha ninja and by 232 overtook the world. Series end. Just to see the faces of the so called "naruto fans".

[Gods_Son]

Perhaps Kishimoto is making Itachi look good now, so when they show him killing the clan it becomes even more badass and evil.

[SasukesGirL]

Originally posted by: DeluxSkillz
more flashbacks yay! [/sarcasm] looks like next week will also be a flashback well done kishimoto you just totally fucked yourself, now i actually have something bad to mention about naruto, this is just stupid bring on the fight they are just retelling us what we already know the next chapter better be good because these flashbacks are getting on my nerve and itachi is still evil i don't care what kind of sweet flashbacks they give about him he remains evil he killed the entire uchiha clan and that's that appointing a different murder is wrong and i'll hate kishimoto forever if he makes up some bullshit crap like that


Dude just shut up and wait, its not like you gonna die next week or something. Our just go back to your dragon ball if you have a need for action.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Kalean
I merely meant that there are some people who stubbornly cling to their precious evil Itachi, and some who actually try to discover the truth. Rasen Dori converted to the 'light side' after this chapter, albeit hesitantly, and I thought the chapter would be enough for many others. It would seem I was wrong.

sounds like you're trying to convert people... like how they do it in religion. and when you say that people are stubbornly clinging to something, you make it sound as if what they're clinging to is wrong. yeah, don't do that.

is itachi innocent? i don't think so. but is it possible? maybe. i just think that there would be too much plot bullshit if itachi doesn't end up the one who killed the uchiha clan. it would be better off if he did it for a 'good' reason (i don't know how, but whatever). there can't be any logical explanations if itachi wasn't the killer. let's look at the possibilities of who could potentially be the real killer:

1. orochimaru: ok, so i don't know if this is before orochimaru found out about kimimaro's illness or not but if orochimaru wanted sharingan, he could've jacked them from itachi 5-6 years ago. UNLESS, itachi was already so much stronger than orochimaru (which i doubt). anything else?

2. higher eschelons of akatsuki: i don't even know why they would possibly do it or if they were even around back then. anything else?

3. random bad guy who will be introduced later: that'll be complete bs.

4. a bad guy who's already introduced: who could it possibly be when the only major bad guys we know of are orochimaru and itachi.

someone work with me here.

[Himura_san]

Originally posted by: Kalean


Originally posted by: Mut@t@


Originally posted by: Kalean
I would say that while conclusive evidence has yet to be presented, this chapter has provided another point for people like me that believe Itachi is not actually evil to harp on. 'Even if it means being hated, that's what being an elder brother is all about.'? Itachi keeps telling Sasuke to hate him with every fiber of his being, in the hopes of driving Sasuke past his own limits, and it looks like that idea was formulating way back then. Some people will find this ambiguous, but to me it says that Itachi loved his brother and was willing to sacrifice any love he could get in return to benefit his brother in the long term, which is quite a high level of brotherly love, although a bit twisted. Then again, they're Shinobi, wishing your loved one to be strong is about the highest wish you can have for them, I suppose. Putting oneself in a position for someone you care about to hate you, knowing that doing so will benefit them the most, is quite a painful thing to do, but it's obvious that at least in the past, Itachi was resigned to that.

or MAYBE... kishimoto is purposely trying to make itachi look like a good guy to trick us. and what was your theory on itachi again? that he didn't kill the uchihas (therefore, innocent), it was someone else and itachi took the blame so that sasuke would chase after him? if you're gonna stick with the innocent itachi theory, tell me who really did it and why. i'm curious.

One doesn't have to know who's guilty to discover who's innocent. Kishimoto is more than capable of throwing Itachi's alignment into question while still keeping that a mystery. Unless you're trying to say he's a bad writer...





Perhaps some of the more intelligent people that disagreed with me before will re-consider after this chapter, it seems conclusive to me.
sorry, but that is the stupidest thing to say. sounds like you're trying to be some sort of harvard professor who is trying to correct people.

and... those two guys at the end look like they want a fight with itachi. i hope itachi buries them in the dirt.


I merely meant that there are some people who stubbornly cling to their precious evil Itachi, and some who actually try to discover the truth. Rasen Dori converted to the 'light side' after this chapter, albeit hesitantly, and I thought the chapter would be enough for many others. It would seem I was wrong.

As for those two (Three? There's an Uchiha member standing behind them, possibly just a bystander.) people that want to talk to Itachi... If they want a fight, they're going to die, and we all know that, so I hope they actually say something interesting before he murders them.

I was looking at the last image and to me it seems all 3 people in the image are Uchiha members, since their clothing style is similar.
I cannot say for sure where Kishimoto is taking this subplot, but I have confidence in his ability.

[Berserk Ayato]

I dunno, it's a huge stretch but maybe Kabuto could be involved, like i said highly unlikely but it would be interesting, we dont know much about him. And it's a bad guy that has already been introduced.

[Destroyor]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@


Originally posted by: Kalean
I merely meant that there are some people who stubbornly cling to their precious evil Itachi, and some who actually try to discover the truth. Rasen Dori converted to the 'light side' after this chapter, albeit hesitantly, and I thought the chapter would be enough for many others. It would seem I was wrong.

sounds like you're trying to convert people... like how they do it in religion. and when you say that people are stubbornly clinging to something, you make it sound as if what they're clinging to is wrong. yeah, don't do that.

is itachi innocent? i don't think so. but is it possible? maybe. i just think that there would be too much plot bullshit if itachi doesn't end up the one who killed the uchiha clan. it would be better off if he did it for a 'good' reason (i don't know how, but whatever). there can't be any logical explanations if itachi wasn't the killer. let's look at the possibilities of who could potentially be the real killer:

1. orochimaru: ok, so i don't know if this is before orochimaru found out about kimimaro's illness or not but if orochimaru wanted sharingan, he could've jacked them from itachi 5-6 years ago. UNLESS, itachi was already so much stronger than orochimaru (which i doubt). anything else?

2. higher eschelons of akatsuki: i don't even know why they would possibly do it or if they were even around back then. anything else?

3. random bad guy who will be introduced later: that'll be complete bs.

4. a bad guy who's already introduced: who could it possibly be when the only major bad guys we know of are orochimaru and itachi.

someone work with me here.


Fine I'll work with you just for the sore purpose of presenting a post that actually "looks" intelligent instead of "OMFG MORE FLASHBACK or OMFG THAT THREAD IS SO GAY AND THAT GUY HAVE NO LIFE!!!".


Orochimaru used a illusion technique on Itachi while Itachi had his guards down, possibly with some dirty lowlife trick involving Sasuke. Itachi slaughter the clan but manage to break free the mind control from Oro (or some other bad guy, dunno, could even be the leader of Akatsuki) and thus gain Manga-Sharingan.

If the mind control was from Oro, then it's because Oro wanted to take over Itachi's body and process the only Sharingan in the world.

If the mind control was from Akatsuki leader, then it's because of some other sinister plot blah blah blah (ok I'll stop right here)

Have fun flaming and attacking the bigass hole in this theory!

[Death BOO Z]

here's another one

Orochimaru sends someone to kill the Uchiha clan, but Itachi kills him just after the enemy killed everybody but Sasuke. So he takes responsability on the killing to prevent Sasuke from getting himself killed. and then he joins up with akatsuki to find the true killer.
by that time, Kabuto sneaks into whatever group who came to check out the killing, and see's the killers' body and hides it from everybody else, without infiorming Orochimaru.

so this way, Orochimaru thinks that Itachi killed the entire clan before his man got to it, and so he speaks nothing about it once Itachi joins the Akatsuki, but Itachi doesn't know who sent the attacker, or believes that the attacker acted on his own, so he doesn't suspect Orochimaru and tells Sasuke to keep on living, so he could build the Uchiha clan once again...

so you see, this way, everybody's fucked up with only half-truthes and we, the readers, win a nice plot...

[Himura_san]

Originally posted by: Destroyor


Originally posted by: Mut@t@


Originally posted by: Kalean
I merely meant that there are some people who stubbornly cling to their precious evil Itachi, and some who actually try to discover the truth. Rasen Dori converted to the 'light side' after this chapter, albeit hesitantly, and I thought the chapter would be enough for many others. It would seem I was wrong.

sounds like you're trying to convert people... like how they do it in religion. and when you say that people are stubbornly clinging to something, you make it sound as if what they're clinging to is wrong. yeah, don't do that.

is itachi innocent? i don't think so. but is it possible? maybe. i just think that there would be too much plot bullshit if itachi doesn't end up the one who killed the uchiha clan. it would be better off if he did it for a 'good' reason (i don't know how, but whatever). there can't be any logical explanations if itachi wasn't the killer. let's look at the possibilities of who could potentially be the real killer:

1. orochimaru: ok, so i don't know if this is before orochimaru found out about kimimaro's illness or not but if orochimaru wanted sharingan, he could've jacked them from itachi 5-6 years ago. UNLESS, itachi was already so much stronger than orochimaru (which i doubt). anything else?

2. higher eschelons of akatsuki: i don't even know why they would possibly do it or if they were even around back then. anything else?

3. random bad guy who will be introduced later: that'll be complete bs.

4. a bad guy who's already introduced: who could it possibly be when the only major bad guys we know of are orochimaru and itachi.

someone work with me here.


Fine I'll work with you just for the sore purpose of presenting a post that actually "looks" intelligent instead of "OMFG MORE FLASHBACK or OMFG THAT THREAD IS SO GAY AND THAT GUY HAVE NO LIFE!!!".


Orochimaru used a illusion technique on Itachi while Itachi had his guards down, possibly with some dirty lowlife trick involving Sasuke. Itachi slaughter the clan but manage to break free the mind control from Oro (or some other bad guy, dunno, could even be the leader of Akatsuki) and thus gain Manga-Sharingan.

If the mind control was from Oro, then it's because Oro wanted to take over Itachi's body and process the only Sharingan in the world.

If the mind control was from Akatsuki leader, then it's because of some other sinister plot blah blah blah (ok I'll stop right here)

Have fun flaming and attacking the bigass hole in this theory!

A master of Sharingan being beaten by genjutsu, riiiiigghhhht!

[Raikage]

I have a feeling that the 3 guys on the last page is there to find trouble with Itachi and the one back facing them is Obito. Kishimoto might just tell us how Kakashi get his sharingan here since it was never mentioned and since its about Uchiha now. Its just an instinct that I think the guy back facing them is Obito and he is gonna lose and give Kakashi his sharingan before he dies.

[PSJ]

okay i didnt read many of the posts since i didnt want to see more bullshit posts like deluxskillz's... these flashbacks have been very, very good. i cant tell if itachi is good or evil anymore, his father is hiding to much secrets with all these "missions" that are exclusive for the uchiha. its possible that he killed the clan for the greater good of konoha? i dont know anymore.

[Terracosmo]

Itachi killed the damn clan. This is build-up on his motives. Nothing more, nothing less. If you don't believe me, you'll see. And if this proves to be wrong, which it won't, I never said it. (...)

[kaigan]

the story of the uchiha's death has become more and more revealed to us.
but by the way itachi was talking to sasuke, i think that the whole clan's death is for a greater cause and it's not because itachi is trying to prove to strength.

[RasenDori]

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
okay i didnt read many of the posts since i didnt want to see more bullshit posts like deluxskillz's... these flashbacks have been very, very good. i cant tell if itachi is good or evil anymore, his father is hiding to much secrets with all these "missions" that are exclusive for the uchiha. its possible that he killed the clan for the greater good of konoha? i dont know anymore.

i agree...although i cannot say that sasuke and itachis father is up to anything siniseter...but i think that on some level itachi is doing what he can to protect sasuke

i really cant say if itachi killed the clan or not...and i still think he did. if he didnt we shouldnt expect to see the truth anytime soon. this is sauskes flashback and hes clueless

[Assertn]

the guy on the bottom left of the last page doesnt look like an uchiha......not only do most uchihas have dark hair, but that thing around his waist looks more "sound ninja" style.....although that cant really be the case, since the sound village didnt exist back then.....but eh i dunno

its really interesting with this flashback, because you get a perspective of sasuke that you wouldnt consider otherwise. Sasuke was always known for wanting to avenge his clan, and being all lonely and junk, but even when his family was around, he still was depressed, just for different reasons. I was kinda hoping that i would see naruto in the flashbacks of the classroom, to help support my theory about how he was in the same class as the others the whole time, and not just held back or anything. (although him being the same age alone should be enough evidence)

The whole "using itachi as a connection" sorta thing sounds fishy and kinda corrupt.......maybe itachi catches on that the whole clan is trying to take over konoha? i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif in any case, im sure the "secret mission" will give us a big clue

[Mgslee]

Heres a theory.

Itachi's special ANBU mission involves tracking down Oro and bringing him to justice. While Itachi is away, Oro comes in and slaughters the clan. Itachi returns just after and see's Sasuke coming home from practice (the pole scene)

Itachi does not want to show Sasuke that he is weak (Itachi failed to protect the clan and let everyone die) so thus creates the illusion that he did it himself.

This theory is flexable since it doesnt have to be Oro to have killed the clan, it can be anyone. I would also like to introduce a sort of twist in to the plot in which Itachi and Sasuke's father actually betrayed the clan. (Their father doesnt really seem to be a nice guy from what we've seen)

His purpose was to get Itachi away from the village (as he is so strong) and thus the killings can happen. When Itachi returns he see's his father killing his mother and quickly binds him in some sort of manner. Itachi then kills his father execution style for betraying the clan and sasuke walks in just at that moment..

Okay I got to much time on my hands to think of all this but I think its a good theory

[Mut]

you guys are substituting any random character for the real killer and coming up with theories yet you guys don't/can't explain why that killer would kill the uchiha clan.

sure i could say the character X killed off the uchihas, but that doesn't mean shit if i don't say why he/she did it. it's completely useless to tell us about a theory if you're not gonna explain what the main motive is for the killer.

from the way i see it, no one who has been introduced is strong enough AND evil enough to slaughter a whole clan except orochimaru and itachi. also, it can't be kabuto since i believe is around 17 (just a guess from appearance and when kakashi said "don't mess with an adult") and there is no way he'd be strong enough at the time of uchiha massacre (i don't think he is even strong enough now). and i doubt that the real killer is gonna be someone who hasn't been introduced yet. that would be completely stupid to just throw in the real killer after so much story line has been built.

[Assertn]

need i repeat......that if there WAS someone that killed the clan other than itachi.......that we wont see that in these flashbacks, since they are from sasuke's perspective and sasuke sees itachi as the killer

[Gods_Son]

The flashbacks are probably just to show us what Itachi was like and to help us make our own theories or predictions about the Uchiha massacre.

[kaigan]

assertnfailure speaks my mind. This is from sasuke's perspective of the massacre. to find out the truth, we need to see from itachi. man, they need to have more air time for itachi, then we can understand his character more.

There's actually not that many characters that's been introduce outside since itachi and kasame, so if itachi didn't kill them, then that character is still hidden. But little is known right now that it's hard to make any possible speculations of what happened that night.

[xtort]

Originally posted by: KonohamaruCorps
The flashbacks are probably just to show us what Itachi was like and to help us make our own theories or predictions about the Uchiha massacre.

I disagree to a small extent. I'd say the reason for these flashbacks is to give grounds for Sasuke's immense inferiority complex. And hell, while we're at it, why don't we cast doubt on Itachi's character.

One possibility: if someone wanted to get sharingan, someone very powerful, they'd basically have to kill off all the pawns to get to the king, queen, and bishop pieces, who have the true sharingan. And finally, having killed off all the pawns, they get to the end of the road, and the sharingan masters do not use sharingan so that no one can steal their eyes.

Holes in this theory: not too many singular people are strong enough for this. It'd probably take a group of people, and none, up to this point, have been eluded to, except Akatsuki. If Itachi really didn't kill his family, and Akatsuki did, I doubt he'd sign up. The three guys in the last page of 221 look like Orochi-type-people, so maybe he had some help in the Uchiha clan, from guys who were a little bitter about Itachi being really strong.


I don't really know at this point. It's an exciting subplot, and I like the generation of material on Itachi. Whether he's good or bad, this arc has given more info on him than all the preceeding. Stupid people have wasted so much bandwidth on him, with nothing to go on. Now that we have it, stupid people hate flashbacks. Whatever.

[Masamune]

liked his chapter.

wanna see the next one ,before i start making up theories

[Assertn]

wait a sec, i thought you were only an anime watcher, mesamune

[Masamune]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
wait a sec, i thought you were only an anime watcher, mesamune

mesamune who's that? XP

nah i started reading manga during chuunin exam or so

i just dont post that much , usually some stuff about precise moments in the anime or weird theories in open.

almost genin....w00t

[Legendary Nin]

The start of the chuunin prelims was when I started to read the manga too (That seems to be the big pullover event)...


These Itachi chapters are an important part to creating a large backbone of the Naruto story whether some of you realize it or not.Sasuke is second to Naruto in the characters most important to the story,it takes a large event to influence Sasuke into the "I wanna kill my brother" mindset.Next week things should really get moving.

[kaigan]

poor poor sasuke. that inferiority really gets to him. he was a loser when itachi's was around and now he's still a loser. what a sad little MF.

[PSJ]

i actually almost felt sad about how sasuke was treated.

[Hakeem_21]

Its the second time i feel sorry for Sasuke the first time was when Itachi kicked his ass,when he realized that Itachi was 1000 times better than him.

What a father he has,only talkning about Itachi. No wonder Sasuke is the way he is,the poor guy has always wanted to be better than his brother.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Hakeem_21
Its the second time i feel sorry for Sasuke the first time was when Itachi kicked his ass,when he realized that Itachi was 1000 times better than him.

What a father he has,only talkning about Itachi. No wonder Sasuke is the way he is,the poor guy has always wanted to be better than his brother.

he didn't want to be better, he just wanted acknowledgement, especially from his father. kind like how naruto wants acknowledgement.

[Gods_Son]

Sasuke used to be a loser, I actually prefer him being arrogant. Xtort, I agree, it's probably to show us where Sasuke is coming from, but also to put doubt into some people's minds that Itachi killed the Uchiha clan or that he was completely evil.

[The Lord of Morning]

I definatly feel sorry for hwo sasuke feels and as an older brother i really understand what itachi is saying, if not agreeing with it completely. I am nine years older then my little bro and i never had a problem with him, we didnt fightr much, he would hang out with me and my friends several times, i was a third parent kindof, that spoiled the hell out of him. Itachi doesnt seem to have malice against sasuke. I really understand what he means by fighting each other to help get beyond individual barriers and limits.

with this in mind, comments by orochi said that he considers sasuke to have more potential then itachi. Do you think this is true? you think sasuke can be stronger then itachi? obviously yes if you think sasuke will kill itachi, that seems to imply that sasuke is better or stronger, but do you really think sasuke could surpass itachi?

excluding a big time jump, it seems almosti mpossible for sasuke to defeat itachi, even with the 2nd level seal i dont think its possible. if orochi cant defeat itachi then wtf is a 2nd seal going to do? i definatly think sasuke IS a genius ninja who can exceed most others, but how will grow great enough to defeat his brother?

oh, and for those who want a fourth eye thing (what is it called?) i dont think it exists. i dont know why but i just have that feeling now, after seeing so many uchiha ninja.

oh and do you all think that kakashi got his sharingan eye right after itachi wiped the clan out?

[Hakeem_21]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@


Originally posted by: Hakeem_21
Its the second time i feel sorry for Sasuke the first time was when Itachi kicked his ass,when he realized that Itachi was 1000 times better than him.

What a father he has,only talkning about Itachi. No wonder Sasuke is the way he is,the poor guy has always wanted to be better than his brother.

he didn't want to be better, he just wanted acknowledgement, especially from his father. kind like how naruto wants acknowledgement.

Same thing when to get acknowledge by his father he must become atleast as good ninja as Itachi.

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: Hakeem_21
Its the second time i feel sorry for Sasuke the first time was when Itachi kicked his ass,when he realized that Itachi was 1000 times better than him.

What a father he has,only talkning about Itachi. No wonder Sasuke is the way he is,the poor guy has always wanted to be better than his brother.

i felt good when he got his ass handed to him by itachi the best part ws when itachi broke his wrist with no effort at all. i like him when he is pathetic i hate the arrogant sasuke.

[kaigan]

now i wanna see naruto beat sasuke to a bloody pulp and toss him around like a rag doll.

[The Lord of Morning]

i dont understand this hostility to sasuke. yeah he is lost since he wants to go to orochi but man. . you guys hate him!

[PSJ]

i dont like his character. in the begining he was all cool when he was sort of a dark character with power and all, he had a decent amount of arrogance when he was training with naruto and all. but after that he became much to arrogant and power hungry, started treating people like shit and so on. also when naruto sort of surpassed him he didnt take it too well to say the least. basicly he is an ass. thats why i hate the guy.

[The Lord of Morning]

i am not disagreeing with you but i think that was kishimoto's plan, so i guess i shouldnt be surised by all your reasctions.

[PSJ]

maybe it was, he is one of those characters you love to hate, there gotta be one of those. in my head thats his purpose. i dont want the filthy little scumbag to beat itachi i want him to see naruto beat itachi and then try to kill naruto just to get himself killed, that would be a great ending for the boy.

[kaigan]

YES!!!!

hey pervert, you should e-mail kishimoto for your great ending of sasuke. i think most people would be happy with that ending for now.

[ohpeekaboo]

i agree w/ pervert-sennin on this.. sasuke's character was MUCH more likeable before he started getting an inferiority complex towards even naruto. especially considering what a prick he was to naruto when he considered naruto to be weaker than him. serves him right to be a loser now...


but kishimoto could turn that all around by having sasuke get a handle on himself instead of running to oro like a power-hungry baby and give something back to the leaf.


hmmmm.

[Mut]

am i the only one who likes sasuke here...

*dbz comparison coming up*

i don't see any difference between vegeta and sasuke. vegeta was a bad ass character and everyone loved him yet, so many people despise sasuke so much. vegeta bitched a lot about how he always wants to fight goku and how he hates being inferior (in strength) just like how sasuke is, but no one cared about vegeta. everyone just him as a bad ass. but i admit that sasuke isn't the bad ass type, but he certainly doesn't deserve so much of a hatred/annoyance we have for him.

[kaigan]

that's because sasuke is a prick and his actions shows him to be a not likable character.

vegeta on the other hand is different than sasuke. he's cool and a true bad ass. he's more like itachi except not as strong.

[Noonan]

Vegeta worked constantly to improve himself and was always frustrated by Goku and Gohan's rediculous amount of natural talent.

Sasuke has been shown training himself exactly once that I am aware of.

Between the manga and the anime we have been given the impression that several of the Genin kids (Naruto, Neji, Rock Lee) work every day on improving themselves and growing stronger.

Sakura has NEVER been shown working on herself - and has only tried to rise to her potential when she was absolutely cornered and had no one to fight for her.

Sasuke has only trained when Kakashi drug him aside - he has some powers that he obviously trained up somewhere but his attitude that he just should be good enough without expecting to have to put in the constant effort that others do is annoying.

Thus

Naruto = Active
Sasuke = Passive
Sakura = pathetic.

[Himura_san]

Everyone wants a character to hate, Sasuke happens to be that character for most people.
Personally I don't hate Sasuke, or any character for that matter, but I get sick of Konohamaru sometimes ^^;

[mprose]

Originally posted by: Himura_san
Everyone wants a character to hate, Sasuke happens to be that character for most people.
Personally I don't hate Sasuke, or any character for that matter, but I get sick of Konohamaru sometimes ^^;

PLEASE let us not taint these forums with talk of that shitbag Konohamaru and his friends. That bastard with the drippy nose... thoughts of killing him send me to sleep

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
am i the only one who likes sasuke here...

*dbz comparison coming up*

i don't see any difference between vegeta and sasuke. vegeta was a bad ass character and everyone loved him yet, so many people despise sasuke so much. vegeta bitched a lot about how he always wants to fight goku and how he hates being inferior (in strength) just like how sasuke is, but no one cared about vegeta. everyone just him as a bad ass. but i admit that sasuke isn't the bad ass type, but he certainly doesn't deserve so much of a hatred/annoyance we have for him.


there is a huge diffrence between those characters. 1) vegeta changed for the better, i didnt like him when he was a villain. sasuke went the other way from good to bad. 2) sasuke is whining and not doing anything about it. vegeta tried to find ways to become stronger than goku. 3) vegeta's arrogance disappeared little by little when goku outdid him all the time. sasuke's arrogance only grew with time until it was to much.

so vegeta was a good guy but a real badass and he didnt whine he did something about it. sasuke isnt even a badass he's just pathetic now, he whines and doesnt do anything about it.

[Kenshiro]

Although Sasuke is a dickhead, at least he has more than 2 jutsus that he can do.

I think its a shame that he doesnt use that crazy 3 shuriken on fire jutsu he used on Oro in the forest of death more.

[PSJ]

yea because its so hard to dodge i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif most characters can jump out of the way.. that move isnt really that good, it only works against guys that puts out the fire.

[The Lord of Morning]

actually i would bet that sasuke knows more jutsu's, we just havnt seen them yet. at least he has mastered all the genin level jutsu's and i believe fire is a higher level one?

i think it would suck if we had to see the same things over and over but then we cant see each and ever ability a ninja can do. so far i am satisfied in the way kishimoto has made variations on the same abilities. i mean naruto has been using kage bunshin since forever and has come up with new ways to use it in battle everytime. so i am not going to complaina bout what we have seen and what not, definatly satisfied there.

god i hate konohamaru. hell with sasuke, kill that little brat.

[RasenDori]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
am i the only one who likes sasuke here...

*dbz comparison coming up*

i don't see any difference between vegeta and sasuke. vegeta was a bad ass character and everyone loved him yet, so many people despise sasuke so much. vegeta bitched a lot about how he always wants to fight goku and how he hates being inferior (in strength) just like how sasuke is, but no one cared about vegeta. everyone just him as a bad ass. but i admit that sasuke isn't the bad ass type, but he certainly doesn't deserve so much of a hatred/annoyance we have for him.

well...that could be because vegeta was the only interesting character...the rest of them were practically the same guy with a different face

[FearTheMullet]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
am i the only one who likes sasuke here...

*dbz comparison coming up*

i don't see any difference between vegeta and sasuke. vegeta was a bad ass character and everyone loved him yet, so many people despise sasuke so much. vegeta bitched a lot about how he always wants to fight goku and how he hates being inferior (in strength) just like how sasuke is, but no one cared about vegeta. everyone just him as a bad ass. but i admit that sasuke isn't the bad ass type, but he certainly doesn't deserve so much of a hatred/annoyance we have for him.

Vegeta was a badass who worked to be better. Sasuke is jsut an ass. I never like dfrom the start, jsut the way his character was set up "I am an avenger" although I tohught he was a very goood and strong ninja, now he just pissed me off. All he does is whine and complain hes not strong enough, so he goes and runs to oreomachine.

[PSJ]

nice spelling on orochimaru i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif no seriously yea sasuke is just annoying something needs to change, he should change to a complete badguy kill kakashi or something, maybe kill one of the other genin.